Bonds guilty!

[Casino]

On obstruction of justice,mistrails on other counts.

[GaryG]

Obstruction of justice...In line with the Pete Rose rulings it appears highly doubtful that Bonds will make the HOF. Now what about all of the HR records set by the admitted juicers?

[Casino]

Record stays,

[judd]

On obstruction of justice,mistrails on other counts.

of course he is
hes a p-of -s

[Casino]

of course he is
hes a p-of -s
Clemens next.

[judd]

Clemens next.
cant stand roger :mad:

[sonnyp]

can't stand bonds.......can't stand clemens, but believe me, if the government goons come knocking on the door of ANYONE who posts here they can and will put you in a position where you either take a plea deal or throw so many counts against the wall, one will stick.

just think of what they spent for this, to make their point.

[lamboguy]

obvously the federal government cares more about baseball players than they do about horse's. next to go will be rodger the dodger clemons who lied to the congress. they don't like people that disrespect their tremendous honor.

i want to know how come they don't protect the public from baseball teams charging $200 a seat for family's to take their kids to watch these bums.

[bigmack]

How can you find him guilty of obstruction but are unable to reach a decision for perjury?

[sonnyp]

without a doubt, they certainly do not practice what they preach.

it's been noted this guy novitsky who spearheaded the original "investigations" against bonds, clemens and lance armstrong had aspirations to "bring down a celebrity" to advance his personal image, and himself broke the law in his agency's seizure of urine samples and records.

these creeps, especially since the patriot act, do what they want, when they want.

[sonnyp]

How can you find him guilty of obstruction but are unable to reach a decision for perjury?

the defense already has requested the guilty verdict be thrown out.

it just may be.

[bigmack]

the defense already has requested the guilty verdict be thrown out.
it just may be.
Sounds par for the course for a defense motion. I was talking more from the viewpoint of the jurors.

[sonnyp]

nobody here would want their fate in the hands of a jury of their "peers".

go sit in a parking lot someplace and just observe your peers. they got an equal vote and they could sit in judgement of you in the form of a jury.

SCARRY

[lamboguy]

nobody here would want their fate in the hands of a jury of their "peers".

go sit in a parking lot someplace and just observe your peers. they got an equal vote and they could sit in judgement of you in the form of a jury.

SCARRYwhat i want is to get elected congressman for one term, then take down a pension for the rest of my life and silly ass healthcare too! if i got elected i promise not to steal one penny for the one term that i am in, i just want to collect my pension.

[cj's dad]

what i want is to get elected congressman for one term, then take down a pension for the rest of my life and silly ass healthcare too! if i got elected i promise not to steal one penny for the one term that i am in, i just want to collect my pension.

And exactly what does this have to do with Bonds ??

[lamboguy]

And exactly what does this have to do with Bonds ??your congressmen are the ones that grabbed rodger clemons for lying to them. are you that proud of the way that your elected officials are taking care of business these days? do you happen to thing they have better things to do than set up ballplayers to lie to them? maybe you don't think they should be running all over the world chasing down the al qaeda?

[Canarsie]

your congressmen are the ones that grabbed rodger clemons for lying to them. are you that proud of the way that your elected officials are taking care of business these days? do you happen to thing they have better things to do than set up ballplayers to lie to them? maybe you don't think they should be running all over the world chasing down the al qaeda?

You need to get your facts straight even though I think it's foolish of the government (money wise) to prosecute him. He volunteered to go before congress, he wasn't issued a subpoena.

The other players subpoenaed to appear next week were Jose Canseco -- who recently published a book outlining allegations of steroid use by McGwire and others -- Jason Giambi, Curt Schilling, Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas. Also called were players' association head Donald Fehr, baseball executive vice presidents Rob Manfred and Sandy Alderson, and San Diego Padres general manager Kevin Towers.


All five people are being asked to testify voluntarily, but the committee has not ruled out subpoenas that would force them to testify. Either way, they would be testifying under oath.


The star pitcher Roger Clemens, his former trainer Brian McNamee and three others will be asked to testify under oath before a Congressional committee at a hearing Jan. 16.

In addition to Clemens, the House Oversight Committee will call Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch and Kirk Radomski, according to a person with knowledge of the hearing who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to talk about it.




http://sportsbybrooks.com/clemens-to-testify-before-congress-15299

This is what could have happened if one was issued but it WASN'T

http://www.slate.com/id/2114796/

How did they grab him? Hw was the only one among all that appeared who was indicted. If he wasn't such an idiot and was evasive like the others it would have gone away. Heck they didn't do nothing to Palmeiro and he was caught as a user after testifying.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8804402/

[lamboguy]

You need to get your facts straight even though I think it's foolish of the government (money wise) to prosecute him. He volunteered to go before congress, he wasn't issued a subpoena.

The other players subpoenaed to appear next week were Jose Canseco -- who recently published a book outlining allegations of steroid use by McGwire and others -- Jason Giambi, Curt Schilling, Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas. Also called were players' association head Donald Fehr, baseball executive vice presidents Rob Manfred and Sandy Alderson, and San Diego Padres general manager Kevin Towers.


All five people are being asked to testify voluntarily, but the committee has not ruled out subpoenas that would force them to testify. Either way, they would be testifying under oath.


The star pitcher Roger Clemens, his former trainer Brian McNamee and three others will be asked to testify under oath before a Congressional committee at a hearing Jan. 16.

In addition to Clemens, the House Oversight Committee will call Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch and Kirk Radomski, according to a person with knowledge of the hearing who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to talk about it.




http://sportsbybrooks.com/clemens-to-testify-before-congress-15299

This is what could have happened if one was issued but it WASN'T

http://www.slate.com/id/2114796/

How did they grab him? Hw was the only one among all that appeared who was indicted. If he wasn't such an idiot and was evasive like the others it would have gone away. Heck they didn't do nothing to Palmeiro and he was caught as a user after testifying.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8804402/with all the problems going on in this world, why are they spending your money and many millions of dollars of it on a wild goose chase, when they could be spending that money hunting down al qaeda that threatens the untmost core rights we have here?

if baseball wants to remain a viable sport they can police themselves, they gouge the public for enough money for their tickets and television rights.

[canleakid]

[B]BARRY BONDS GUILTY err BARRY BONDS GUILTY * :D

[Valuist]

Record stays,

Not in most fan's mind it doesn't. I think most still view Aaron and Maris and the all time and single season record holders. McGwire and Sosa don't count either.

[PaceAdvantage]

Not in most fan's mind it doesn't. I think most still view Aaron and Maris and the all time and single season record holders. McGwire and Sosa don't count either.So you're telling me the guys during Aaron and Maris' days weren't abusing some sort of substance? I'm no expert, but wasn't amphetamine use rampant?

And in the cases of Bonds and McGwire and Sosa, they were on an even playing field, facing pitchers who were also hopped up on steroids and HGH...

If you're going to be consistent, throw out all the stats from the last 20 or so years...hell, might as well throw out the stats from the last 70 years while we're at it:

Greenies, a nickname coined by ballplayers because of the color of the pills, were introduced to the game in the 1940s. These amphetamines speed up the heart rate and have been proven to fight fatigue, increase alertness and sharpen reaction time. Athletes have used them to challenge the limits of endurance — and mask the accompanying pain.Keep telling me again how pure those records of the past were compared to modern times.... :rolleyes:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/02/PBP_AMPHET_0402.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Next thing people are going to tell me is that there were no steroids around during the times of Secretariat, Affirmed and Seattle Slew... :lol:

[toetoe]

PA,

Don't forget corked bats and all the stuff pitchers have used --- spittle, sandpaper, Vaseline, et cetera.

How about the Giants' Herman "Ballpark" Franks using a telescope to telegraph pitches to batters during the 1951 playoff(s) ?

[lamboguy]

Next thing people are going to tell me is that there were no steroids around during the times of Secretariat, Affirmed and Seattle Slew... :lol:
there were, i don't know if those horses had them, but they were around for sure back then.

[wes]

Are you saying Locoweed started it all?


wes

[Valuist]

So you're telling me the guys during Aaron and Maris' days weren't abusing some sort of substance? I'm no expert, but wasn't amphetamine use rampant?

And in the cases of Bonds and McGwire and Sosa, they were on an even playing field, facing pitchers who were also hopped up on steroids and HGH...

If you're going to be consistent, throw out all the stats from the last 20 or so years...hell, might as well throw out the stats from the last 70 years while we're at it:

Keep telling me again how pure those records of the past were compared to modern times.... :rolleyes:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/02/PBP_AMPHET_0402.html


Did the size of Aaron's head increase? Did Maris or Mays put on 60 pounds of muscle? Amphetamines are basically like stronger caffeine. You can't possibly compare them to PEDs.

[Valuist]

Also, regarding the pitchers, the evidence doesn't support it as having as much of an effect as it did on hitters. Most likely it helped them recover quicker. Maybe those with severe leg development (Clemens, Prior come to mind) could throw harder but Clemens had a pretty good fastball in the 80s as well. Here's facts that can't be disputed. 2001 was about the height of the steroid era, and 2010 the game, for the MOST part, appears to be cleaned up:

Number of players hitting over 30 home runs:
2001: 41
2010: 18

Number of players hitting over 40 home runs:
2001: 12
2010: 2 (and one of those two is under some suspicion).

[Marlin]

Did the size of Aaron's head increase? Did Maris or Mays put on 60 pounds of muscle? Amphetamines are basically like stronger caffeine. You can't possibly compare them to PEDs.How much muscle would Maris and Mays have put on if they had the advantage of today's strength and conditioning programs? It's impossible to compare eras or decades. Greenies might not have the outward effect that today's PEDs do, but I'm sure they did provide an advantage to some.

[Valuist]

How much muscle would Maris and Mays have put on if they had the advantage of today's strength and conditioning programs? It's impossible to compare eras or decades. Greenies might not have the outward effect that today's PEDs do, but I'm sure they did provide an advantage to some.

I think one issue is that greenies were not considered to have the potential damaging long term effects that steroids do. I think players probably didn't hesitate if they wanted amphetamines, since they were considered relatively harmless.

But steroids have been known for years to have damaging effects to the kidneys, liver, heart and other internal organs. I guarantee you there are players that said "screw it; I would like to live past age 50". So there clearly was less of a level playing field since some players were willing to take that risk.

The real crime is that Bud Selig and MLB let this go on as long as it did. Its not redboarding or Monday morning QBing to say it was obvious what was happening. Sammy Sosa hit 20 home runs in June of 1998. 20 HRs in a month. 2 guys top Maris' record in a single season and 3 years later, both of them are eclipsed. What was Selig thinking? He HAD to know. I think MLB wanted to look the other way after the strike in 1994.

[toetoe]

Val and Marl,

You're trying to strain the quality of mercy through a thimble. I don't care about Bonds, nor does PA, apparently. That said, what is there to go after ? I don't think it's illegal, or at least it wasn't then. So it's nobody's business, but they ask him about it, don't like the answer, and then try him for lying to a grand jury, as with Martha Stewart.

If you said, "Toetoe, he cheated, and pointing out the cheating of others doesn't absolve him," I'd say okay.

Now, however, you're telling me there's "no comparison" between cheating and cheating. Sorry, but there is indeed a comparison; not an absolution --- a comparison.

[Valuist]

Val and Marl,

You're trying to strain the quality of mercy through a thimble. I don't care about Bonds, nor does PA, apparently. That said, what is there to go after ? I don't think it's illegal, or at least it wasn't then. So it's nobody's business, but they ask him about it, don't like the answer, and then try him for lying to a grand jury, as with Martha Stewart.

If you said, "Toetoe, he cheated, and pointing out the cheating of others doesn't absolve him," I'd say okay.

Now, however, you're telling me there's "no comparison" between cheating and cheating. Sorry, but there is indeed a comparison; not an absolution --- a comparison.

MLB just made amphetamines illegal recently. MLB made steroids illegal in 2002 but Federal law made them illegal since the early 90s. As I will repeat myself, there really is no comparison.

Having said all that, I believe Bonds has been scape-goated more than anyone. He is guilty, but so are many others. But he had a lot to lose; he was a HoF worthy player before the roided up. he knew he was a better player than Sosa and McGwire and was jealous of all the attention they got.

[GaryG]

I do not see how greenies (dexedrine) could help somebody hit a curve ball or increase their power. It would only make them FEEL like they could bit the ball 1000 feet. Since using them did not cause the body to be grossly deformed it is a non-issue as nobody knows. Maybe their teeth would fall out from extended use....:eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not making a comparison between illegal substances. What I was doing was saying at least some records as far back as the 1940s appear to have been achieved while under the influence of something.

So to paint the current crop of cheaters as devils and the cheaters of yesteryear as angels is somewhat disingenuous. That's all I'm saying.

[Marlin]

I do not see how greenies (dexedrine) could help somebody hit a curve ball or increase their power. It would only make them FEEL like they could bit the ball 1000 feet. Since using them did not cause the body to be grossly deformed it is a non-issue as nobody knows. Maybe their teeth would fall out from extended use....:eek:Roids and HGH would not increase ones ability to hit a curve. There is no drug for that. Roids and HGH wouldn't be able to allow one to feel refreshed for a day game after a night game. Grossly deformed? Please check out international weight lifters who are held to the strictest testing available. You cannot compare eras, or methods of cheating.

[ElKabong]

Not in most fan's mind it doesn't. I think most still view Aaron and Maris and the all time and single season record holders. McGwire and Sosa don't count either.

Who are Mike McGuire and Sammy Sooser? Never heard of them.

McGwire- the guy who embarrassed himself in front of CSPAN cameras and legislators to the point of being a cartoon charachter. He's guilty and he knows it. Couldn't stand on his own two feet in front of others and have the balls to say "What I was taking wasn't against MLB rules at the time". Nope, the dickless coward came up with "I'm not interested in the past. I'm interested in the future".

Yeah right, dickless coward.

Sosa- remember when he was in front of reporters in Chicago and defiantly said he'd be willing to take a drug test anytime anywhere...then a reporter said he'd drive him to a clinic for a test, Sosa looked at him like "whaaaaaat?"

These guys used, abused, and cheated. Screw em. Roger and Hank can keep the records as far as I'm concerned. They never embarrassed themselves by trying to hide anything they did.

[The Judge]

1. Baseball knew what was going on and did nothing.

Didn't McGwire have the stuff on open display in his locker (pill or powder form)giving interviews to T.V crews.

2. It wasn't illegal so why is the legislature jumping in it unless it's to make it illegal.

If thats the case why do you need the violators to say they never used the stuff in the PAST?

Make it illegal /let baseball band the stuff and move on.

Of course the answer to all this is PUBLICITY baseball didn't want ANY and the politicians couldn't get ENOUGH.

[redshift1]

I do not see how greenies (dexedrine) could help somebody hit a curve ball or increase their power. It would only make them FEEL like they could bit the ball 1000 feet. Since using them did not cause the body to be grossly deformed it is a non-issue as nobody knows. Maybe their teeth would fall out from extended use....:eek:

They absolutely improve athletic performance and confidence. They were also common in college sports during the 60-70's as much so as Adderall is today.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/performanceenhancingdrugs/a/Amphetamines.htm

[ElKabong]

1. Baseball knew what was going on and did nothing.

Didn't McGwire have the stuff on open display in his locker (pill or powder form)giving interviews to T.V crews.

2. It wasn't illegal so why is the legislature jumping in it unless it's to make it illegal.

If thats the case why do you need the violators to say they never used the stuff in the PAST?

Make it illegal /let baseball band the stuff and move on.

Of course the answer to all this is PUBLICITY baseball didn't want ANY and the politicians couldn't get ENOUGH.

McGwire was into more than just Androl, Canseco and him were injecting PED's into each others ass in the 1990s. Neither will live to see 55, their livers will fail at some point from the abuse