A Better Way for Cities

[ArlJim78]

The video gives an example of a city in Georgia which outsources everything except police and fire. It's an efficient public/private partnership. and it works.
They do not have unions or expensive defined benefit plans or layers of government bureaucracy.

f8qFvo2qJOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8qFvo2qJOU&feature=player_embedded

[JustRalph]

Sandy Springs Georgia has no future liabilities. No pension debt for Police or Fire etc


f8qFvo2qJOU

[ArlJim78]

yep.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82012

[JustRalph]

Mods,,,,,,,,combine em......... didn't see it jim........?

Don't know how I missed it.

[ArlJim78]

Well it wasn't drawing much attention, thats how you missed it!:D

I thought it was interesting and hopefully a way forward for other communities.

[mostpost]

Chicago out sourced its parking meter operations for $1.15B. It is estimated that the city will lose $670M in revenue over the long run. The private company earns a net $58M per year.

All this is to say nothing about myriad technical problems, meters not being emptied, lack of enforcement.

Privatization really works well. :rolleyes:

[GameTheory]

Chicago out sourced its parking meter operations for $1.15B. It is estimated that the city will lose $670M in revenue over the long run. The private company earns a net $58M per year.

All this is to say nothing about myriad technical problems, meters not being emptied, lack of enforcement.

Privatization really works well. :rolleyes:Then they should fire them and use someone who will do the job right. Your example is still one of government incompetence.

[Tom]

He he he.....they out-sourced incompetence!
:lol:

[mostpost]

Then they should fire them and use someone who will do the job right. Your example is still one of government incompetence.

There is a 75 year contract involved. How is this an example of government incompetence? If you hire someone to build an addition to your house and he puts the windows in sideways and the toilet flushes when you turn on the TV, is that an example of your incompetence?

[bigmack]

As usual, mosty doesn't bother to reveal the entire story.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/chicagometers.png
http://www.governing.com/columns/mgmt-insights/Chicago-Parking-Meters.html

Of course, this coming from the mind of someone who believes shop owners price-gouge customers if they are a different race than themselves. :bang:

[prospector]

There is a 75 year contract involved. How is this an example of government incompetence? If you hire someone to build an addition to your house and he puts the windows in sideways and the toilet flushes when you turn on the TV, is that an example of your incompetence?
yes! how can you pay...trust...someone to do important work and not check them out (references)..you would not notice the first sideway window??
remember..trust, but verify?:)

[boxcar]

There is a 75 year contract involved. How is this an example of government incompetence? If you hire someone to build an addition to your house and he puts the windows in sideways and the toilet flushes when you turn on the TV, is that an example of your incompetence?

Cutting a contract with someone for 75 years is the height of idiocy -- never mind incompetence.

Boxcar

[mostpost]

On the one hand you have government providing these services. In this case the costs include salaries and benefits of city employees, both office and on the street employees, and costs of materials.

On the other hand you have these services provided by a private contractor. As above you have the cost of salaries and benefits plus the cost of any materials required to do the job. And you have the cost of providing a profit to the companies involved. How is it possible to add that extra layer of expense and still pay less than if you did it yourself?

The video claims that Sandy Springs pays $25M for services that would cost a traditional city $50M. The video offers no evidence to support that claim. The video does not define what services are provided. Does Park maintenance include repairing a damaged swimming pool or fixing the roof of the field house or is only routine maintenance?

How long is the contract? What control does the city have over the contractors? Do they have carte blanch to fix problems without approval form the city? Can the contractors decide unilaterally what constitutes a sufficient fix?

The video starts by saying that Sandy Springs, Ga. has no long term liabilities. SO WHAT! The city is only five years old. You would not expect it to have any long term liabilities. It is also an affluent community with a median family income of $129,810 and a poverty rate of 7.9%

What happens when the private company decides it is no longer willing to provide the services at the lower price? Without a public infrastructure the city has no choice but to pay the higher price.

[ArlJim78]

It should be obvious that no system works if you have an incompetent and corrupt pool of elected government officials minding the store. whether you go the public or private route, what matters first and foremost is the composition of top management. If they're crooks and scam artists, its game over. You first have to get rid of them before you can make real improvements.

[GameTheory]

There is a 75 year contract involved. How is this an example of government incompetence?Uhh...because there is a 75 year contract involved, for starters. If Chicago has put themselves in a position that they can't replace the private company doing a bad job (or frankly, for any reason at all), especially since it seems like the contractor isn't holding up their end of the contract, I surely call that incompetence, yes. What else would you call it? A natural disaster? Nothing to be done about it?

If you hire someone to build an addition to your house and he puts the windows in sideways and the toilet flushes when you turn on the TV, is that an example of your incompetence?It is not, necessarily, but if you waived your right to redress such problems before the job even started, it would be.

[bigmack]

What happens when the private company decides it is no longer willing to provide the services at the lower price? Without a public infrastructure the city has no choice but to pay the higher price.
You really should recuse yourself from such discussions on the grounds that you're the biggest G-Man drone in the history of drones and haven't the slightest idea how the private sector works.

[mostpost]

As usual, mosty doesn't bother to reveal the entire story.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/chicagometers.png
http://www.governing.com/columns/mgmt-insights/Chicago-Parking-Meters.html

Of course, this coming from the mind of someone who believes shop owners price-gouge customers if they are a different race than themselves. :bang:


About the parking meters:
I'm not suggesting that the city did not screw up. I'm pointing out that:
One private companies are not immune to screw ups; in fact they are as likely to make mistakes as any public entity.
And two; the city could have made a lot more money by raising rates to market value and keeping control of the meters.

About the shop keepers:

You make it sound as if I suggested that two people of different races going to the same store would be charged different prices for the same item. What I said was that in times of severe crisis store owners have been known to jack up prices. This is most likely to happen when said store owner is not a member of the community and does not identify with his customers. There have been many news stories detailing this.

[mostpost]

You really should recuse yourself from such discussions on the grounds that you're the biggest G-Man drone in the history of drones and haven't the slightest idea how the private sector works.

What was wrong with what I said? Are private companies not in the business to make a profit? Are there so many companies which provide the services required by Sandy Springs, Ga. that you can be sure there will be competitive bidding?

Can you provide me with a history of how this particular contract was negotiated?

I tend to be skeptical about videos presented by organizations such as Reason.TV which have a particular bias against government and in favor of big business. Particularly when they gloss over details and provide no backup for many of their statements. Besides the fact that not one person in the video spoke in opposition to the plan. Sounds like a Russian election.

[bigmack]

This is most likely to happen when said store owner is not a member of the community and does not identify with his customers. There have been many news stories detailing this.
A store owner is not a member of the community?

OK, show me these stories and make sure it's pointed out they jacked-up prices as a result of their inability to 'identify' with their customers AND, also show the other owners who did 'identify' with their customers didn't jack-up prices.

Good luck.