Kelly: Meadowlands Racetrack needs much more than a new owner

[Canarsie]

Pretty good opinion for your reading pleasure.

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/119582024_Racetrack_s_fading_away.html?page=all

[Spiderman]

The ADW should make arrangement to show NYRA races live. Many of the players have NY roots and have curtailed or simply stopped playing NYRA because of the video.

The Big M is a very large facility that can accommodate slots and other forms of gambling and entertainment. Though only a ten minutes drive, I only go to make deposit or take a withdrawal or play in a contest.

[Pell Mell]

Pretty good opinion for your reading pleasure.

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/119582024_Racetrack_s_fading_away.html?page=all

In the article a woman states that bad language turns off women.

I have hit tracks all over the country and none are worse than the NE tracks for language. I have had a fair share of fist fights in my day because of this.

I have seen security guards, even when asked to put a stop to it, totally ignore cursing.

About the only place I use to see women at those tracks, I don't mean bag ladies, was at Monmouth in the summer.

You won't see that stuff tolerated in a casino.

[badcompany]

In the article a woman states that bad language turns off women.

I have hit tracks all over the country and none are worse than the NE tracks for language. I have had a fair share of fist fights in my day because of this.

I have seen security guards, even when asked to put a stop to it, totally ignore cursing.

About the only place I use to see women at those tracks, I don't mean bag ladies, was at Monmouth in the summer.

You won't see that stuff tolerated in a casino.

Yet, women comprised only 3% of the players in last year's World Series of Poker Main Event. The politically incorrect reality is that women, in general, don't like gambling games that involve thinking.

[Hanover1]

Yet, women comprised only 3% of the players in last year's World Series of Poker Main Event. The politically incorrect reality is that women, in general, don't like gambling games that involve thinking.

Not sure its the thinking part at all, as that would be incorrect, but I have always suspected that its more of a needless risk of money loss that detracts them. At least that is the excuse I have gotten from a whole host of women. They find no entertainment value in potential loss of cash.

[NJ Stinks]

I wouldn't take horse bets from around the country bets for $24 an hour. And that goes double as a full time job.

[Irish Boy]

Yet, women comprised only 3% of the players in last year's World Series of Poker Main Event. The politically incorrect reality is that women, in general, don't like gambling games that involve thinking.
I'm not sexist, but... (http://notsexistbut.tumblr.com/)

[badcompany]

Not sure its the thinking part at all, as that would be incorrect, but I have always suspected that its more of a needless risk of money loss that detracts them. At least that is the excuse I have gotten from a whole host of women. They find no entertainment value in potential loss of cash.

Then, why are women so prevalent at the slots area of Racinos and Casinos? And why am I always seeing women playing numbers and scratch-off games?

This is the problem with Political Correctness. In order to make your points, you're forced to reject logic and reasoning.

[Irish Boy]

Then, why are women so prevalent at the slots area of Racinos and Casinos? And why am I always seeing women playing numbers and scratch-off games?

This is the problem with Political Correctness. In order to make your points, you're forced to reject logic and reasoning.
And to make your points, you are forced to rely on anecdotes and conjecture. As a competing anecdote, I think your post a few above this one is evidence that male horseplayers don't enjoy thinking, either.

[badcompany]

And to make your points, you are forced to rely on anecdotes and conjecture. As a competing anecdote, I think your post a few above this one is evidence that male horseplayers don't enjoy thinking, either.

Your mind seems so infected by Political Correctness that I doubt any type of proof I could provide will suffice, but what the hell:

http://scoblete.casinocitytimes.com/article/we-owe-it-to-slot-players-36507


"There may be controversy at Harvard about the differences between men and women, but there is no controversy in casino gambling circles about such. Men and women have decidedly different gaming tastes. For example, 81 percent of the women are slot players, while just 66 percent of the men play the machines. Men do play the higher denomination machines more so than do women. However, 20 percent of the men play table games, but only 8 percent of women prefer the tables. Blackjack and craps are heavily favored by men - blackjack has more than twice as many men playing it and craps has an astonishing four times as many male participants. Roulette is equal between both men and women."

[Canarsie]

Then, why are women so prevalent at the slots area of Racinos and Casinos? And why am I always seeing women playing numbers and scratch-off games?

This is the problem with Political Correctness. In order to make your points, you're forced to reject logic and reasoning.

You are probably right but to be fair do you count guys doing those things?

[Vinman]

Not sure its the thinking part at all, as that would be incorrect, but I have always suspected that its more of a needless risk of money loss that detracts them. At least that is the excuse I have gotten from a whole host of women. They find no entertainment value in potential loss of cash.

I'm 100% in agreement with you that almost all women detest losing $$$ at the racetrack.

But I'm curious if this same group of women deem it to be "okay" to lose money playing slots because they find it to be "entertaining"?....OR would it be more accurate to say that the same group of women you speak of detests losing at slots as well.....and that the women who do enjoy playing (losing at) slots are from a totally different mindset than the women who don't like losing at the track?

I guess what Im really asking is.....Does it make a difference to the average woman if she loses her $$$ on horses or on slots?

Vinman

[Stillriledup]

I'm 100% in agreement with you that almost all women detest losing $$$ at the racetrack.

But I'm curious if this same group of women deem it to be "okay" to lose money playing slots because they find it to be "entertaining"?....OR would it be more accurate to say that the same group of women you speak of detests losing at slots as well.....and that the women who do enjoy playing (losing at) slots are from a totally different mindset than the women who don't like losing at the track?

I guess what Im really asking is.....Does it make a difference to the average woman if she loses her $$$ on horses or on slots?

Vinman

From my experience, there hasnt been that big of a difference between women and men in the gambling dept, women are just as gung ho to get involved if they think they can win money at the windows. I've taken a few women to the track as one of the first dates i've had with them and we've always had a good time, there wasnt any 'i hate gambling or horse racing' speeches from them.

[Irish Boy]

Your mind seems so infected by Political Correctness that I doubt any type of proof I could provide will suffice, but what the hell:

http://scoblete.casinocitytimes.com/article/we-owe-it-to-slot-players-36507


"There may be controversy at Harvard about the differences between men and women, but there is no controversy in casino gambling circles about such. Men and women have decidedly different gaming tastes. For example, 81 percent of the women are slot players, while just 66 percent of the men play the machines. Men do play the higher denomination machines more so than do women. However, 20 percent of the men play table games, but only 8 percent of women prefer the tables. Blackjack and craps are heavily favored by men - blackjack has more than twice as many men playing it and craps has an astonishing four times as many male participants. Roulette is equal between both men and women."
Those famous thinking games blackjack and craps.

You extrapolated that because 2/3rds of men play slots and 4/5ths of women play slots that women don't like to think when they gamble. I'm not offended by your lack of political correctness, just your abuse of logic.

[badcompany]

The only reason I made the initial comment is that the woman in the article implied that if men didn't curse at the track, more women would be attracted to handicapping. While I do agree that excessive cursing is off-putting to women, I disagree that it's the main reason women don't bet on horses in large numbers.

You, with all your mastery of logic and science, could only offer up a personal attack, "You're a sexist," as a counterpoint.

____________________



http://opac.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=5276


Men and Women Gamble for Different Reasons, Yale Researchers Report
Published: September 2, 2001


New Haven, Conn. — Male gamblers are more likely than female gamblers to report addictive behavior related to strategic or "face-to-face" forms of gambling such as blackjack or poker, Yale researchers report in a new study published in the September issue of The American Journal of Psychiatry.
The study also showed that female gamblers are more likely to report problems with nonstrategic, less interpersonal forms of gambling, such as slot machines or bingo. The differences observed in the study could lead to more targeted treatments for gambling addiction based on gender.

[Robert Goren]

From my experience, there hasnt been that big of a difference between women and men in the gambling dept, women are just as gung ho to get involved if they think they can win money at the windows. I've taken a few women to the track as one of the first dates i've had with them and we've always had a good time, there wasnt any 'i hate gambling or horse racing' speeches from them.I have taken a few women to the track over the years. They seemed to enjoy themselves, but none of them ever ask me to take them back there. On the other hand, a couple of them loved going to the casino. They enjoyed that way more than I did. Unless I can find a poker game I don't care for casinos.

[Canarsie]

I was at the Meadowlands yesterday and was talking to a teller I know for a long time. He said he was voting against the deal and most others were also. Stated (his facts) that he would be laid off with 30 years seniority and he only makes 40 grand a year now. Heard others (not tellers) talking also and nothing was complimentary of this type of deal getting done.

The guy also said there's lots of distrust between the NJSEA and the unions going back to the Whitman administration. Said they approved a vote (first was rejected, they did another one for the same package) cutting their pay 12%. Within a few weeks he stated that the executives at NJSEA received big bonuses.

This is what he told me I'm only reporting it.

[pandy]

I heard the same thing, they are going to Vote No today.

[The Hawk]

I heard the same thing, they are going to Vote No today.

If that's true I think it will mark the end of the Meadowlands Racetrack.

[pandy]

If they vote note, I think the state's political leaders should get together quickly and vote to abolish the law the protects the union so that Gural and the other new owners can hire their own people.

[DRIVEWAY]

The potential new owner's plan is to introduce an automated teller type machine which is in place at his other tracks. He'll start this when the current union contract runs out in 10 months.

When these new machines are introduced only half of the tellers will be needed.

Winning tickets and vouchers will be entered into these machines and you get your money. It's similar to a bank ATM.

The one thing about the meadowlands is the age of the concession workers, security personnel and tellers. At least 50% are 70 years or older. Almost everyone is at least 50 years old.

There are several women at the concession stands well into their eighties. Tellers into their eighties is not uncommon either.

The security guards have no physical fitness testing. If they had a ten yard dash, half of them might have coronaries.

The workers that will be hurt the most are the ones younger than 60 years old. However, with the union pecking order the seventy plus crowd rules the day. These older workers are all on retirement and don't care if they lose their jobs and collect unemployment benefits for the next 99 weeks. Many of them might not live that long. Voting NO is easy for these people.

A very strange situation. Let's hope for the best.

[thespaah]

I wouldn't take horse bets from around the country bets for $24 an hour. And that goes double as a full time job.what per hour wage do you think is appropriate for an unskilled clerk type position?

[thespaah]

If they vote note, I think the state's political leaders should get together quickly and vote to abolish the law the protects the union so that Gural and the other new owners can hire their own people.I agree....Is it not logical to conclude that the teller's contract is with the State? That said if a new operator takes over, those contracts are null and void?
At that point why can Gural not compel the tellers to re-apply for their jobs and of course advertise for new tellers at a hiring range he deems appropriate?
Really, so the union and the tellers will be angry. They will get over it or they can walk away mad. Who cares. The survival of the business is priority one. If the track closes, those unionized tellers will be earning a grand total of ZERO.
I see an absence of logic there.
I would find it tragic that the Meadowlands would close because a bunch of unionized clerks dug in their heels thinking they would win what is obviously a losing battle.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

They must really believe they deserve full-time wages for a part-time job.

[pandy]

When you look at the cost of health coverage today, they are nuts to turn down this offer, which comes with full health benefits, even for part time workers.

[Irish Boy]

Is the Meadowlands track state owned, and/or are Meadowlands tellers state employees? I don't know how things work in NJ.

[Zman179]

If they vote note, I think the state's political leaders should get together quickly and vote to abolish the law the protects the union so that Gural and the other new owners can hire their own people.

That would never happen. If Gov. Christie were to do that, other unions outside of racing would strike in retaliation.

You know, it's funny how journalists are so against unions and feel that they should be stopped and decertified...but let something happen to THEM and all of that is out the window. You don't just impose your will, you negotiate. If the union members wind up out of a job due to their vote, then that'll just have to be something that they'll have to live with.

http://www.paullarosa.com/blog/2010/10/the-new-york-daily-news-newspaper-strike-of-1990/

http://www.mcgilldaily.com/2011/03/journal-de-montreal-lockout-ends/

[pandy]

Is the Meadowlands track state owned, and/or are Meadowlands tellers state employees? I don't know how things work in NJ.

The tellers are state employees but the track is being sold and will go from state owned to privately owned. Gural does not want to bust the union, he just wants them to accept a 20% pay cut.

[badcompany]

The tellers are state employees but the track is being sold and will go from state owned to privately owned. Gural does not want to bust the union, he just wants them to accept a 20% pay cut.

A main selling point of Unions is that they can offer their membership above-market pay. That's why they're loathe to accept cuts.

This Meadowlands situation is a good illustration of the downside of wage price control: increased unemployment.

[Irish Boy]

The tellers are state employees but the track is being sold and will go from state owned to privately owned. Gural does not want to bust the union, he just wants them to accept a 20% pay cut.
Thanks. Why are tellers state employees in New Jersey? That seems peculiar.

[pandy]

Thanks. Why are tellers state employees in New Jersey? That seems peculiar.

The state owns and runs the track but now they want out.

[sonnyp]

The state owns and runs the track but now they want out.

pandy

i don't have to tell you......that track and the horsemen's participation picked up the tab for that entire complex and more. it's been the cash cow for decades.

years ago the state got in bed developing a "pigstye" in atlantic city, full of corruption where everybody got robbed.

now that the "golden goose" isn't laying those golden eggs, of couse, the state wants out.

[David-LV]

Gural issues statement to horsemen


(http://www.harnessracing.com/) April 15, 2011


At approximately 3 pm on Friday, April 15, Jeff Gural issued a statement to horsemen regarding his efforts to lease the Meadowlands racetrack and continue live harness racing there. He said he does not at this time expect the track to reopen for racing on May 7, and is attempting to move the Graduate and Cutler Memorial Trot to either Tioga or Vernon, the tracks he owns. The release follows:

"Obviously, I am very disappointed with the vote yesterday by the tellers not to ratify the proposal we gave them to extend their contract three years at the expiration of the existing contract next February. This is extremely disappointing considering I have actually raised the money which I thought was the hard part. I believe we are very close to an agreement with the state with only two or three open points remaining. At this point, I think we have to assume that the Meadowlands will not reopen for racing on May 7th unless the tellers reconsider.

"I am looking into the possibility of relocating the Graduate and the Cutler Memorial stakes races which were originally scheduled to be raced at the Meadowlands on May 7th with a final on May 14th to the other tracks that I own. I would recommend making the payments for those two races that are due today and the money will be refunded if the race is cancelled. I am actually on my way to Vernon for opening night. I will discuss this with the horsemen at both Tioga and Vernon to see if we can come up with something as I think it would be unfair at this late date to cancel those two races. Hopefully the tellers will have a change of heart but in the meantime I think it would be prudent to assume that the facility will not reopen for racing on May 7th.
"I would like to thank the many horsemen who contributed to this effort financially as we raised close to $1,000,000 to cover the costs associated with trying to keep the Meadowlands open. I am very sorry that this effort did not end the way we had all hoped but it is not for lack of effort."--Jeffrey Gural

[Stillriledup]

Gural issues statement to horsemen


(http://www.harnessracing.com/) April 15, 2011


At approximately 3 pm on Friday, April 15, Jeff Gural issued a statement to horsemen regarding his efforts to lease the Meadowlands racetrack and continue live harness racing there. He said he does not at this time expect the track to reopen for racing on May 7, and is attempting to move the Graduate and Cutler Memorial Trot to either Tioga or Vernon, the tracks he owns. The release follows:

"Obviously, I am very disappointed with the vote yesterday by the tellers not to ratify the proposal we gave them to extend their contract three years at the expiration of the existing contract next February. This is extremely disappointing considering I have actually raised the money which I thought was the hard part. I believe we are very close to an agreement with the state with only two or three open points remaining. At this point, I think we have to assume that the Meadowlands will not reopen for racing on May 7th unless the tellers reconsider.

"I am looking into the possibility of relocating the Graduate and the Cutler Memorial stakes races which were originally scheduled to be raced at the Meadowlands on May 7th with a final on May 14th to the other tracks that I own. I would recommend making the payments for those two races that are due today and the money will be refunded if the race is cancelled. I am actually on my way to Vernon for opening night. I will discuss this with the horsemen at both Tioga and Vernon to see if we can come up with something as I think it would be unfair at this late date to cancel those two races. Hopefully the tellers will have a change of heart but in the meantime I think it would be prudent to assume that the facility will not reopen for racing on May 7th.
"I would like to thank the many horsemen who contributed to this effort financially as we raised close to $1,000,000 to cover the costs associated with trying to keep the Meadowlands open. I am very sorry that this effort did not end the way we had all hoped but it is not for lack of effort."--Jeffrey Gural


Just open the track without tellers and run the races. Tell the fans that if they want to bet M races, they need an ADW account. Bring your cellphones to the track and call in your bets or bet with SAM machines. Maybe the state can hire the 11 tellers who voted YES to accept Gural's proposal, that would have to be enough to work.

[pandy]

pandy

i don't have to tell you......that track and the horsemen's participation picked up the tab for that entire complex and more. it's been the cash cow for decades.

years ago the state got in bed developing a "pigstye" in atlantic city, full of corruption where everybody got robbed.

now that the "golden goose" isn't laying those golden eggs, of couse, the state wants out.


It was a cash cow and the politicians used the money for pet projects, too. I still think that somehow this is going to work out. They didn't make a formal announcement today. I still think the union is using a NO as a bargaining chip, but I doubt Gural will give them a better offer. My guess is that they change their minds and have another vote. Anyone who gives up $19.20 an hour and health benefits for a job that is one of the easiest out there is just not thinking straight.

[Canarsie]

It was a cash cow and the politicians used the money for pet projects, too. I still think that somehow this is going to work out. They didn't make a formal announcement today. I still think the union is using a NO as a bargaining chip, but I doubt Gural will give them a better offer. My guess is that they change their minds and have another vote. Anyone who gives up $19.20 an hour and health benefits for a job that is one of the easiest out there is just not thinking straight.

After speaking with a teller I think one of their biggest concerns are the reduced racing dates. He was spot on when stating it was going to fail.


If it does shut down I'm going to miss a bunch of people there who I have gotten to know. Even though Monmouth is closer to me I would always go there for simulcasting just felt more comfortable. Thanks for the memories M1.

[thespaah]

Perhaps someone can find out why Gural cannot simply fire the tellers and hire new ones at the appropriate rate of pay. Why is it he or anyone else for that matter must deal with these stupid unions?

[Canarsie]

Perhaps someone can find out why Gural cannot simply fire the tellers and hire new ones at the appropriate rate of pay. Why is it he or anyone else for that matter must deal with these stupid unions?

Only a guess but maybe it's because they have a binding contract till next year. Everyone seems to say he can break it but he's not buying the place it's a lease. The Governor is to blame as much as the unions he could have sold both Monmouth and Meadowlands but he chose not to. Maybe he listened to a ballplayer who doesn't have a clue about racing but was on his blue ribbon panel.

Monmouth had expiring contracts it makes Bailey's job much easier but he still has to deal with the horsemen.

Once again there is more than meets the eye here.

[Zman179]

Perhaps someone can find out why Gural cannot simply fire the tellers and hire new ones at the appropriate rate of pay. Why is it he or anyone else for that matter must deal with these stupid unions?

Because horsemen honor picket lines and for that I give them a big thumbs up. :ThmbUp: If there is a strike-busting move by a track, then the horsemen on-track will refuse to run, and horsemen from other localities will revoke permission for their signal to be broadcast to the offending facility. So you do what Gural is doing and negotiate.

[The Hawk]

Maybe he listened to a ballplayer who doesn't have a clue about racing but was on his blue ribbon panel.

You think? I thought maybe he was listening to the television actor that was on that same panel. Maybe they both had the same recommendations.

[thespaah]

Because horsemen honor picket lines and for that I give them a big thumbs up. :ThmbUp: If there is a strike-busting move by a track, then the horsemen on-track will refuse to run, and horsemen from other localities will revoke permission for their signal to be broadcast to the offending facility. So you do what Gural is doing and negotiate.
I disagree. Horsemen cannot afford to simply not race. They have ongoing and recurring expenses which must be met. If they don't race, they don't eat.
Union are no longer significant. They need to be pushed out of the way of progress. Unions prevent businesses from operating efficiently. They violate the laws of common sense.
In light of the current economy with so many out of work and looking for work, honoring picket lines to serve some nostalgic purpose is idiotic.
Gural is NOT negotiating. He issued an ultimatum to the tellers. You either accept the terms or you have no jobs. The rank and file stupidly tossed their jobs to the curb and with it any hope of an operating Meadowlands racetrack.
SO what happens now.....Ok I have an idea. The State relinquishes control of the facility to the highest bidder and that bidder then voids all union contracts. What are the unions going to do, hold their breath until they pass out? Screw them.
I think Gural could do this now, but it appears he is trying to satisfy all parties. Politically ,it never works. And as we see, neither in business.
Time for people with intelligence to put their foot down and eliminate the road blocks to progress.

[Robert Goren]

Racing was cash cow. So was Blockbuster. Neither is now. Neither is going to be one any time soon. It is going to take a lot more than some deal with the cashier's union to make Meadowlands profitable.

[pandy]

I believe that Gural and his investors are willing to try and keep the track open hoping that eventually they will get work a deal with the Atlantic City casinos to put a casino at the Meadowlands.

[Kelso]

I believe that Gural and his investors are willing to try and keep the track open hoping that eventually they will get work a deal with the Atlantic City casinos to put a casino at the Meadowlands.The state of New Jersey could just as easily ... and much more profitably ... cut a deal directly with one or more casinos. They, and the taxpayers, don't need Gural to do that for them. (They don't need him to run their profitable ADW or OTBs, either.)

[onefast99]

The state of New Jersey could just as easily ... and much more profitably ... cut a deal directly with one or more casinos. They, and the taxpayers, don't need Gural to do that for them. (They don't need him to run their profitable ADW or OTBs, either.)
The casinos cut a deal? They are having enough issues dealing with the competition from surrounding states even as the Governor gets ready to pour a lot of taxpayers hard earned monies into that money pit. I love the "and much more profitably" line, is it me or are you just clueless when it comes to NJ's horse racing industry?

[Robert Goren]

The casinos cut a deal? They are having enough issues dealing with the competition from surrounding states even as the Governor gets ready to pour a lot of taxpayers hard earned monies into that money pit. I love the "and much more profitably" line, is it me or are you just clueless when it comes to NJ's horse racing industry?If the casinos are such a money pit, why are the race tracks try to turn themselves into one? Or trying to get money from them? Lets face it, I am the only poster here who thinks that NJ race tracks have a chance to stand on their own two feet, be it with some very drastic action . The horsemen especially are looking for outside money.

[onefast99]

If the casinos are such a money pit, why are the race tracks try to turn themselves into one? Or trying to get money from them? Lets face it, I am the only poster here who thinks that NJ race tracks have a chance to stand on their own two feet, be it with some very drastic action . The horsemen especially are looking for outside money.
The tracks do not want to become dependent on the slots when they have a great revenue stream in the OTW's, once they are built out the tracks will be able to survive on their own. The casinos are in a no win situation as right now NJ law mandates land based casinos only in Atlantic City. As you know the surrounding states, especially Pa have exploded on the scene with full casinos within the past year that have severly reduced the gaming dollar flow into AC. One would think that the NJ politicians would welcome the expansion of gaming into other parts of the state. Eventually this will happen.

[Canarsie]

If the casinos are such a money pit, why are the race tracks try to turn themselves into one? Or trying to get money from them? Lets face it, I am the only poster here who thinks that NJ race tracks have a chance to stand on their own two feet, be it with some very drastic action . The horsemen especially are looking for outside money.

So why does the track you love Tampa need a poker room? That money should be going to keeping teachers, police, and firepeople, from being laid off according to your logic.

Oh you like to gamble there so there's a different set of rules for that and takeout. :bang:

[Robert Goren]

So why does the track you love Tampa need a poker room? That money should be going to keeping teachers, police, and firepeople, from being laid off according to your logic.

Oh you like to gamble there so there's a different set of rules for that and takeout. :bang:You are right. They should not be allowed to use poker room profits to support racing. I bet Tampa because of their ability to card what for me is bettable races. Something Monmouth Park was not able to do last year. To me at least Tampa did something positive for the bettor, where as MP was a complete waste of money. I know that not everyone agrees with me. But if you want my money, they have to put out what I think is a good bettable product. Another thing, Tampa ran very few state bred races. MP ran a lot of them. I hate state bred races whether they are NJ breds, Ne breds, or what ever breds.

[thespaah]

The state of New Jersey could just as easily ... and much more profitably ... cut a deal directly with one or more casinos. They, and the taxpayers, don't need Gural to do that for them. (They don't need him to run their profitable ADW or OTBs, either.)
Wow...Did I just read THAT?!!!!!!

[thespaah]

If the casinos are such a money pit, why are the race tracks try to turn themselves into one? Or trying to get money from them? Lets face it, I am the only poster here who thinks that NJ race tracks have a chance to stand on their own two feet, be it with some very drastic action . The horsemen especially are looking for outside money.
The casinos would not be struggling if, A) they were not in Atlantic City which is a hell hole. B) the casinos would market themselves as a destination rather than depending on day trippers which of course have dried up due to the much more comfortable and well run casinos is CT and the convenience of PA casinos to PA residents.
Judging by declining ( to rock bottom)attendance and handle figures, the NJ tracks cannot stand on their own.
The two equine sports are very poorly marketed and the horsemen have no use for horse players. Poison.

[Kelso]

The casinos cut a deal? They are having enough issues dealing with the competition from surrounding states

<snip>

I love the "and much more profitably" line, is it me or are you just clueless when it comes to NJ's horse racing industry?So you're now a spokesman for the NJ casino industry ... such that you know their expansion preferences and prospects? Or is this yet another manifestation of your chronic wishful thinking?

Get your head out of the sand, horseman. It's long past due that genuinely, financially ignorant blowhards, such as yourself, learn that ANY business proposition is "much more profitable" when NONE of the proceeds are drained off by parasites ... such as NJ horsemen. It's time for all you guys to fall off the welfare train.

[Kelso]

Wow...Did I just read THAT?!!!!!!Of course you did. Why do you ask?

[thespaah]

Of course you did. Why do you ask?
Because I cannot believe my eyes. Can you write that again?:eek:

[Kelso]

Because I cannot believe my eyes. Can you write that again?:eek:You can believe 'em. :jump:

Pandy speculated that Gural and his investors might be positioning themselves to "work a deal with the Atlantic City casinos to put a casino at the Meadowlands."

I pointed out that (since the state owns the track) it does not need Gural or anyone else to "work" such a deal. And, as is evident to seemingly all but OneFast, such a "deal" would be much more profitable for the state if it didn't have to cut Gural or anyone else in on the proceeds.

Clear now?