Black Caviar (retired)

[menifee]

She won again - really nice horse - unreal.

I have never seen a bridgejumper in the win pool but I think someone did it. Don't understand why they would not bridgejump into the show pool. There was over 87k in the win pool on the horse and only 14k in the show pool. Total win pool was 95k and show pool was 17k.

Australia pools never see that type of action in the win pool, so someone laid a big bet on the horse to win.

[Sekrah]

I had a couple benji's on the runner up to win.. Rarely get an opportunity like that. I'll take it everytime I see it.

Maybe someone will go nuts on Jimmy Choux in the Derby and give me another crack at it.

[Sekrah]

Show payout on this 2 in the Derby should be pretty decent. Poor Jimmy Choux.

[boogazie]

Impressed by how she just rushes by almost every race with such ease. Her owners are being conservative, I can't wait to see her race against other world class sprinters.

[statepierback]

Solid effort by Hay List for second. The winner is special.

[horses4courses]

I see TVG is promoting her next race at Doomben.

Black Caviar is due to run on Saturday over there - Friday night U.S. time.

[strapper]

My friends Down Under rave about this one. She must be the real deal. Wish she'd come to America for the Breeders' Cup!

[horses4courses]

Black Caviar runs in tonight's 7th at Doomben (post 1:50am ET)

[netbet]

Free PP's courtesy of TVG (http://www.tvg.com/forms/Australia051311.pdf)

[Some_One]

Won by about 2 over Hay List and a long way back to 3rd after sitting in the box seat behind the pacesetting Hay List. Trainer already confirm a return in 2 weeks over 6 3/4F

[HuggingTheRail]

Won by about 2 over Hay List and a long way back to 3rd after sitting in the box seat behind the pacesetting Hay List. Trainer already confirm a return in 2 weeks over 6 3/4F

Looked well in hand doing it too...that 2 length win could have been a fair bit more I think..

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Black Caviar has gone for a spell so won't be racing till the Australian spring

Nothing wrong with her, the trainer just felt she needed the spell now rather than run in the Doomben 10000

[horses4courses]

Due to run next weekend (late Friday night in US).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/black-caviar-poised-for-red-hot-comeback-at-flemington/story-fnex616o-1226574934504?sv=95a9ff2d541c4b9683d0bfce997c69cb# .URguRKcTaUI.twitter

[Striker]

She races in about 10 minutes. In an interview on tvg the trainer said she is physically at the best she has been in the last 2 years. We shall see.

[duncan04]

10 minutes till she runs. 1/9 in the U.S. pools

[lamboguy]

i stayed up for this, there is no $2.20 either!

[lamboguy]

that was a rocking chair :)

[Striker]

Course record for her

[duncan04]

Wins easily. Makes it look so easy and broke the course record in the process :jump:

[Buchan]

She goes around at Moonee Valley(Melbourne) in about an hour.

[ArlJim78]

once again no contest.
perfection.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

The good thing about Black Caviar these days is all the G1 sprints that she is not in end up being good races as all the decent horses refuse to race BC in case they beat her and break the streak. The Canterbury Stakes at Rosehill tomorrow is an excellent race as all the good horses apart from BC are in that race

BC's own races these days are simply exhibition gallops where she races mostly out of form horses, old horses or milers using the 1200m as a prep race

[ArlJim78]

you're saying good horses avoid BC for fear of beating her and breaking the streak?

[Seabiscuit@AR]

yes that is correct

If you go back to her 2 runs in Adelaide last year she ran fairly ordinary both times. If she had faced a good opponent either of those days she would have lost. She then struggled to win at Royal Ascot in another ordinary looking performance

Now her run first up in the Lightning on Feb 16th was actually good and the horse who ran 2nd there Moment of Change is decent. This was a return to form by BC and shows she is still the horse to beat. If she can keep running at this level they will have a hard time beating her. But if nobody is trying to beat her then she will never lose. She should be racing in the Canterbury Stakes this weekend not the race tonight (but of course if she goes in the Canterbury Stakes none of the good horses go there)

The quotes which sum it up best come from leading jockey Craig Williams back in Feb 2012

"We want people to turn up at the racecourse and one thing that is bringing people to the racecourse now is Black Caviar, so we’ve got to make the most of it," Williams said.

He admits that beating Black Caviar would be like ‘killing Bambi'.

"That’s for sure, but that would be racing I would be delighted to do it. But you’ve got to have the horse to do it.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/caulfield-readies-for-free-black-caviar-20120209-1ro8q.html#ixzz2OGxkI8Mv

[classhandicapper]

Anyone familiar with the quality of the competition in the race?

[ArlJim78]

yes that is correct

If you go back to her 2 runs in Adelaide last year she ran fairly ordinary both times. If she had faced a good opponent either of those days she would have lost. She then struggled to win at Royal Ascot in another ordinary looking performance

Now her run first up in the Lightning on Feb 16th was actually good and the horse who ran 2nd there Moment of Change is decent. This was a return to form by BC and shows she is still the horse to beat. If she can keep running at this level they will have a hard time beating her. But if nobody is trying to beat her then she will never lose. She should be racing in the Canterbury Stakes this weekend not the race tonight (but of course if she goes in the Canterbury Stakes none of the good horses go there)

The quotes which sum it up best come from leading jockey Craig Williams back in Feb 2012

"We want people to turn up at the racecourse and one thing that is bringing people to the racecourse now is Black Caviar, so we’ve got to make the most of it," Williams said.

He admits that beating Black Caviar would be like ‘killing Bambi'.

"That’s for sure, but that would be racing I would be delighted to do it. But you’ve got to have the horse to do it.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/caulfield-readies-for-free-black-caviar-20120209-1ro8q.html#ixzz2OGxkI8Mv
yes he says like killing Bambi, but the key point you're over looking are the very next words, "I would be delighted to do it. But you've got to have the horse to do it". No people are not avoiding her out of fear of winning.

[classhandicapper]

yes that is correct

If you go back to her 2 runs in Adelaide last year she ran fairly ordinary both times. If she had faced a good opponent either of those days she would have lost. She then struggled to win at Royal Ascot in another ordinary looking performance

Now her run first up in the Lightning on Feb 16th was actually good and the horse who ran 2nd there Moment of Change is decent. This was a return to form by BC and shows she is still the horse to beat. If she can keep running at this level they will have a hard time beating her. But if nobody is trying to beat her then she will never lose. She should be racing in the Canterbury Stakes this weekend not the race tonight (but of course if she goes in the Canterbury Stakes none of the good horses go there)

The quotes which sum it up best come from leading jockey Craig Williams back in Feb 2012

"We want people to turn up at the racecourse and one thing that is bringing people to the racecourse now is Black Caviar, so we’ve got to make the most of it," Williams said.

He admits that beating Black Caviar would be like ‘killing Bambi'.

"That’s for sure, but that would be racing I would be delighted to do it. But you’ve got to have the horse to do it.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/caulfield-readies-for-free-black-caviar-20120209-1ro8q.html#ixzz2OGxkI8Mv

I have a really tough time believing that they are avoiding her because they don't want to beat her. I understand that beating her would be monumentally disappointing to her connections and fans etc... but beating her would also enhance the value of whoever does it.

I remember when Birdstone beat Smarty Jones and prevented a Triple Crown in the US (which fans were salivating for). Nick Zito was actually apologetic, but he was thrilled to have won and I'm sure he would have done it again if he knew the result.

No one in their right mind is going to give up the chance to take out a champion and sharply raise the value of his own horse because the fans will be disappointed.

IMO they are avoiding her for the same reason they have avoided just about every other champion I've ever seen that looked unbeatable. They don't want to run for 2nd money if there's another race available where they can get 1st money.

As to whether she's as good as she used to be based on time, I don't know.

How can you tell when she's typically just cantering around the track using the other horses as a prompter and only running for about 2 furlongs?

The only race she was tested in was at Ascot and she came out of it with injuries.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

ArlJim78

Williams did add that he would be trying his best to beat her. The problem is if you watch her recent races some of the rides against her are very poor. So it is hard to believe these guys are trying their best to beat her

Just taking tonight's race as an example they ran the first 600m in a very slow 37.42 which was much slower than the other 2 races over the same distance. Yet the jockey on Spirit of Boom (in red, yellow and black) just sat 3 wide behind BC when it looked like his horse wanted to run much faster. He would have been much better off allowing his horse to stride forward around BC. Instead he sits out there 3 wide behind BC in a crawl. This sort of thing has become a feature of her races in the 2nd half of her career

Now the first half of her career was great and all her races were genuine contests. But the turning point came in May 2011 when she won in Brisbane. Since then she has had a few decent races but most of them have been exhibition gallops against very weak opposition

[Socalracefan]

Talk about effortless. Congratulations to her on making it 24 straight.

[cj]

3EngeQxxq4Y

[ArlJim78]

ArlJim78

Williams did add that he would be trying his best to beat her. The problem is if you watch her recent races some of the rides against her are very poor. So it is hard to believe these guys are trying their best to beat her

Just taking tonight's race as an example they ran the first 600m in a very slow 37.42 which was much slower than the other 2 races over the same distance. Yet the jockey on Spirit of Boom (in red, yellow and black) just sat 3 wide behind BC when it looked like his horse wanted to run much faster. He would have been much better off allowing his horse to stride forward around BC. Instead he sits out there 3 wide behind BC in a crawl. This sort of thing has become a feature of her races in the 2nd half of her career

Now the first half of her career was great and all her races were genuine contests. But the turning point came in May 2011 when she won in Brisbane. Since then she has had a few decent races but most of them have been exhibition gallops against very weak opposition
I agree with you on this point, but the other stuff is off the reservation.

You're implying that better horses are foregoing taking down easy purses and staying away from her in order to not beat her, and the weak competition that actually goes to the post against her are not even trying, all because they want to keep the streak and the excitement alive? and that these horses like Karuta Queen could actually beat her if they would just get better rides and tried harder?

I'm being as charitable as I can when I say that I'm not buying that explanation. I think there is a much simpler, more rational, less conspiratorial reason why she's been mainly dusting weak opposition for some time now.

[Stillriledup]

Does anyone know who this horse is beating?

[senortout]

you guys take the c .... a... k.........e.......

First off you poo-poo anything you see that is outstanding on the surface, and try to find a way to denigrate quality.

Wouldn't recognize quality unless you bet on it.

Wouldn't admit greatness, at any cost.

Please, she set a course record in her return from injury last out.

She beat the best UK could throw at her in the previous race, despite obvious distress coming up that hill.

Learn that there are other things involved in horse racing beyond stupid rides.

This race could have been a walk-over but sportsmen were trying her yet.

Better horses who could've entered but did not.....sure there are those. They could win elsewhere and good for them. She did defeat her stable mate this morning and she held on for second after leading the pace.

One brave fellow dropped 200 grand on her nose, took the 8 thousand as a gift.

The argument who is(was) the best horse Frankel or Black Caviar is a topic for discussion.

[senortout]

I only speed read this thread. There were as many applauding this great mare, perhaps more applauding than bashing.

Just gets my back up when I read some posts, and I won't be pointing any fingers in this instance.

Just admitting my error before someone else points it out.

[cj]

Does anyone know who this horse is beating?

Yes, every horse that has dared face her. Hay List, a horse she beat many times, is a very accomplished sprinter.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?horse_id=746664#topHorseTabs=horse_r ace_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form

She also won at Ascot last year. The horse she beat subsequently won two G1s.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?horse_id=764829#topHorseTabs=horse_r ace_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form

[Some_One]

She's done the same thing Z did, used one lucky/fluke win to validate all her joke G1 wins. Last night wins was a joke G1 running the opening 300m in 37, don't know how the other jocks could allow that. Her form from two back is really going to get tested today when Moment of Change runs up against the undefeated Pierro and More Joyous.

[Stillriledup]

Yes, every horse that has dared face her. Hay List, a horse she beat many times, is a very accomplished sprinter.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?horse_id=746664#topHorseTabs=horse_r ace_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form

She also won at Ascot last year. The horse she beat subsequently won two G1s.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?horse_id=764829#topHorseTabs=horse_r ace_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form

Why does my 'gut' tell me she's not facing the calibre of horse such as Wise Dan? Maybe those horses are better than the Wise Dan's and Animal Kingdom. I'd love to see her come here and race in a two turn turf race vs Breeders Cup types. Of course, i won't hold my breath for that to happen.

[Buchan]

She's done the same thing Z did, used one lucky/fluke win to validate all her joke G1 wins. Last night wins was a joke G1 running the opening 300m in 37, don't know how the other jocks could allow that. Her form from two back is really going to get tested today when Moment of Change runs up against the undefeated Pierro and More Joyous.


So let's get this straight.
She goes half way around the world to Ascot, so that she gets an easy G1? :lol:

Last night may have been nothing much, but how would YOU ride against her?
Make her work and bring yourself undone?

Her next target is likely the TJ Smith in Sydney, and pretty sure the best of the rest will be there.


Pierro is NOT undefeated by the way, he was beaten by BC's half in the Caulfield Guineas and then lost the Cox plate.

But most of all, it is annoying that people just can't appreciate, and have to bag, bag, bag.
And to call ANY of her wins a fluke or lucky, is just confirmation that you sir, have NFI.

[cj]

Why does my 'gut' tell me she's not facing the calibre of horse such as Wise Dan? Maybe those horses are better than the Wise Dan's and Animal Kingdom. I'd love to see her come here and race in a two turn turf race vs Breeders Cup types. Of course, i won't hold my breath for that to happen.

Ummm, they are milers? Why would a sprinter suddenly race two turns against true turf milers?

[OntheRail]

:jump: What A Girl... She's Tops on the turf. ;)

[Stillriledup]

Ummm, they are milers? Why would a sprinter suddenly race two turns against true turf milers?

To get more respect as more than just a sprinter? Great horses don't usually have to carry around their racetracks with them OR their distances with them.

[letswastemoney]

Black Caviar is a fine mare, but I don't like how emotional people get with undefeated horses. It's too hard for me to be a fan of hers because of that.

[SharpCat]

Why does my 'gut' tell me she's not facing the calibre of horse such as Wise Dan? Maybe those horses are better than the Wise Dan's and Animal Kingdom. I'd love to see her come here and race in a two turn turf race vs Breeders Cup types. Of course, i won't hold my breath for that to happen.


Maybe we can have a Breeders Cup match race. Black Caviar vs Wise Dan 6-1/2 down the hill at Santa Anita.

[cj]

To get more respect as more than just a sprinter? Great horses don't usually have to carry around their racetracks with them OR their distances with them.

Sprinters are much more highly regarded in Australia than they are in the US. She did go to Royal Ascot, and has raced at plenty of Aussie tracks. Not sure what you are getting at here.

[Some_One]

Well her current season form just took a torpedo as Moment of Change ran a no excuses last at Rosehill. If BC dares to show up in the All Aged (2 weeks after the TJ Smith) over the 1400 at Rosehill against Pierro or More Joyous, she'll lose, guaranteed.

[cj]

Well her current season form just took a torpedo as Moment of Change ran a no excuses last at Rosehill. If BC dares to show up in the All Aged (2 weeks after the TJ Smith) over the 1400 at Rosehill against Pierro or More Joyous, she'll lose, guaranteed.

How do we even know what her form is? She has basically had two workouts. Sure, she is probably worth betting against, but to just assume she can't beat those horses seems odd.

[Stillriledup]

Maybe we can have a Breeders Cup match race. Black Caviar vs Wise Dan 6-1/2 down the hill at Santa Anita.

That would be fun!

[Dark Target]

Well her current season form just took a torpedo as Moment of Change ran a no excuses last at Rosehill. If BC dares to show up in the All Aged (2 weeks after the TJ Smith) over the 1400 at Rosehill against Pierro or More Joyous, she'll lose, guaranteed.

You don't see the contradiction in the part highlighted?

You think PIERRO has 9 lengths on MOC ad HAPPY TRAILS 3?

[Buchan]

25 from 25 just accomplished, and made them look silly.
better field this time too as befits a million dollar race.

[Peter Berry]

And one of the greatest quotes of all time from winning rider Luke Nolen: "If there are any knockers after that come and see me and I'll sort you out."

[ArlJim78]

kudos to Kerrin McEvoy and Hugh Bowman for masterful performances, giving us the illusion that Black Caviar blew by them like they were standing still while their mounts gave futile chase and lost by open lengths. we all know they could have won but did this in order to keep the win streak alive. they had the option to let her win by a close margin but decided instead this time to let her totally trounce them for extra excitment.:ThmbUp:

[Buchan]

kudos to Kerrin McEvoy and Hugh Bowman for masterful performances, giving us the illusion that Black Caviar blew by them like they were standing still while their mounts gave futile chase and lost by open lengths. we all know they could have won but did this in order to keep the win streak alive. they had the option to let her win by a close margin but decided instead this time to let her totally trounce them for extra excitment.:ThmbUp:

there's one or more idiots on every forum.

[classhandicapper]

Well, that was kind of impressive. :eek:

I think they should keep her fresh and then make one more trip to Ascot

[castaway01]

Twenty-five in a row, and defeated five Group I winners in this one.

[PaceAdvantage]

there's one or more idiots on every forum.Your sarcasm detector clearly needs a tune-up.

[cj]

Well her current season form just took a torpedo as Moment of Change ran a no excuses last at Rosehill. If BC dares to show up in the All Aged (2 weeks after the TJ Smith) over the 1400 at Rosehill against Pierro or More Joyous, she'll lose, guaranteed.

Some_One? Anyone?

[Buchan]

Your sarcasm detector clearly needs a tune-up.

didn't look at it that way, and you may be correct?

still, there is no shortage of people always looking for reasons to explain why she keeps getting lucky.

she is the horse that made me remember, that racing is not always just a job.

a job i have been doing for about 37 years, and have never seen anything like her before.

not just because she keeps winning, but the amazing effect she has on all and sundry, even people with no interest in the game.

when she races you can't just lob up to the track, you have to have your tickets pre booked basically.

in anticipation of her going to queensland for her next run, they have even changed the venue, to one that will accommodate more fans.

and to keep the crowds spending, they have started making her race the last on any programme.

before she came along, i was just a gambler with no real interest in the game, other than earning my income.
they are just numbers to me.
but just like many, i am now besotted.

[ArlJim78]

yeah just having some fun with the guy who was saying that the riders are afraid to beat her and break the streak.

I'm a BC fan, she has a wicked turn of foot unlike anything I can remember.

[SharpCat]

Love the comments of James McDonald rider of Decision Time. We were on Black Caviar's back for a while then she just changed gear and went away from us so quickly it was like we were in quicksand.

[cj]

ills6b5a8F8

[Vengeance of Rain]

Retired...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-17/worlds-greatest-racehorse-black-caviar-is-retired/4635032

[PhantomOnTour]

A retirement well earned for one of the greatest ever

[gm10]

Unexpected but very good news all in all. I thought that she didn't look her old self since Ascot. Nice to see her go out on a high.

[lamboguy]

according to my wife, she just retired

[lamboguy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/22179135

[pandy]

I'm going to miss seeing that lightning quick brush. Can't remember ever seeing another turf sprinter that could accelerate so quickly.

[classhandicapper]

Too bad, I was hoping for one more trip to Ascot while she was 100%. Horses like this don't come along very often, though we've been blessed in the filly and mare division in recent years.

[Some_One]

I'm going to miss seeing that lightning quick brush. Can't remember ever seeing another turf sprinter that could accelerate so quickly.

Real sprinters don't accelerate at all

[horses4courses]

Real sprinters don't accelerate at all

They just stand still in a state of motionless inertia, while deceiving all around them who believe that they are running like the wind?
Please enlighten us......

[cj]

Real sprinters don't accelerate at all

Funny you found this thread but not the other. May as well merge them.

[OCF]

They just stand still in a state of motionless inertia, while deceiving all around them who believe that they are running like the wind?


Yes, that's how you can tell them from the fake sprinters.

[davew]

After the last win, they were talking possibly another year - but also breeding her to Frankel. But 25 is a nice number to end with.

[FantasticDan]

Black Caviar's $5M unraced half-brother fighting for his life:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/black-caviars-5m-halfbrother-fighting-for-his-life-20131114-2xjmm.html

Since this report apparently the laminitis has gotten even worse, and his prospects are very grim. :(

[horses4courses]

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2014/09/02/black-caviar-days-away-foaling/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=black-caviar-days-away-foaling#axzz3C6iJsNTW