Who's kidding who?

[Tom]

We are spending 1.6 TRILLION DOLLARS over budget - money we do not have
nor will ever have.

Congress is trying to tell us they are serious about cutting spending, but are arguing about a paltry 30 billion dollars.

If they aren't cutting at least 1.6 trillion, they are wasting their time.

Dems keep using the old like like Hell strategy - trying to make us believe a government shut down will be the fault of the repubs, when in fact, the Dems FAILED to pass a budget when they controlled both houses and the White House, and so far, the Dem controlled Senate has FAILED to pass any kind of budget, even 40 days after the House has passed their version (repub controlled House). Dingy Harry is too busy reading insults about the Tea Party on the floor to do his job and represent the American People. Such a worthless loser he is.....

Shutting down the government would be a good think - and keeping it shut down forever would be better.

When is our Day of Rage? Obama has already endorsed citizens taking to the streets and throwing their leaders out - time to forget elections and throw this Kenyen bum outta here. And I want NATO to start sorties over DC while we are at it.;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Tom, I agree with you $30 bb isn't going to solve the problem. Where would you cut specifically?

[Marshall Bennett]

I recently read where GE is nearly 600 billion in debt and the government has taken on the proud pleasure of paying the 30 billion a year annually to cover the interest on it alone. The claim is that allowing GE to go under would be the trigger mechanism to send the economy into hyperinflation.
China and Russia view us as a spoiled society that cares nothing about debt. The evidence of such is spilled out everywhere. For the past 2 years China's been selling off huge chunks of escess dollars at a discount and the end's nowhere in sight. This is bad news.
Our treasury dept. is a joke and Obama's hasn't a clue what this is doing to the future of our economy.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I recently read where GE is nearly 600 billion in debt and the government has taken on the proud pleasure of paying the 30 billion a year annually to cover the interest on it alone. The claim is that allowing GE to go under would be the trigger mechanism to send the economy into hyperinflation.
China and Russia view us as a spoiled society that cares nothing about debt. The evidence of such is spilled out everywhere. For the past 2 years China's been selling off huge chunks of escess dollars at a discount and the end's nowhere in sight. This is bad news.
Our treasury dept. is a joke and Obama's hasn't a clue what this is doing to the future of our economy.

Your statement about GE is simply incorrect. Perhaps you mean they are deducting interest expense from operating income (all companies do this), but not paying US income taxes (in fact, claiming tax credits recently).

[bigmack]

Tom, I agree with you $30 bb isn't going to solve the problem. Where would you cut specifically?
'Cross the board cuts everywhere. In that way, not one section is singled out and all the whining will drown each other out. Noise cancelling.

[Tom]

Tom, I agree with you $30 bb isn't going to solve the problem. Where would you cut specifically?
Off the top of my head........
All foreign aid. 100%
Bring home all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan - 100%
Not spend a nickle on Libya
All money to BS like NPR, Cowboy Poetry....anything remotely like that
All farm subsidies
All advertising
All salaries and perks for any elected Federal official - 100%

All other expenditures not directly related to national defense - 50% cut immediately.

Then, we look at every remaining item and consider it cut unless solid reasons to put them back in are made - in public, televised, with live votes by the full congress, so everyone knows what is going in, why, and who did it.
When we hit the amount of projected tax revenues, nothing more goes in - we live without it, no matter who it hurts.

[bigmack]

We the folk should plan a day of mourning in homage to the complete fiduciary incompetence of this Government.

Soon, the Ntl debt will equal our GDP.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/4_1_11_12_48_57.jpg

[Saratoga_Mike]

Off the top of my head........
All foreign aid. 100%
Bring home all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan - 100%
Not spend a nickle on Libya
All money to BS like NPR, Cowboy Poetry....anything remotely like that
All farm subsidies
All advertising
All salaries and perks for any elected Federal official - 100%

All other expenditures not directly related to national defense - 50% cut immediately.

Then, we look at every remaining item and consider it cut unless solid reasons to put them back in are made - in public, televised, with live votes by the full congress, so everyone knows what is going in, why, and who did it.
When we hit the amount of projected tax revenues, nothing more goes in - we live without it, no matter who it hurts.

1) All foreign aid. 100% -- roughly $15 bb/yr
2) Iraq/Afghan ops -- roughly $160 bb/yr
3) Libya --- let's assume we spend $5 bb/yr (hope not)
4) NPR and other public broadcasting -- roughly $1 bb/ to $2 bb/yr at most
5) All farm subsidies --- roughly $25 bb/yr
6) All advertising (I assume you mean things like public service ads) -- I'm guessing here, but let's use a high number of $5 bb/yr (doubt it's even close to that)
7) All salaries and perks for elected Federal officials (I guess you want them to work for free--seems a little much) -- $1 bb/yr (my estimate--suspect it's way high--535 senators and house members, plus prez and veep)

Add them all up (use the high side of all estimates) and you get $213 bb---still need to cut another $1.4 trillion.

On your 50% proposed cut, does that include Medicare and Social Security?

[DJofSD]

At least we're not Protugal yet. Their debt is something like 200% of their GDP.

[Saratoga_Mike]

At least we're not Protugal yet. Their debt is something like 200% of their GDP.

I think you mean Japan (debt to GDP north of 200%). Portugal's debt to GDP is roughly 90% to 95%. The US is roughly 100% (including intragovernmental IOUs, e.g., to social security). But we can print dollars, whereas Portugal can't print Euros.

[DJofSD]

Oh, you are probably right. I think it is Japan with the 200% level.

[bigmack]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/debt.png

[ldiatone]

this is a video about 1hr 20 mins. long. i listened to most of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI-BIVWlc7A

[riskman]

'Cross the board cuts everywhere. In that way, not one section is singled out and all the whining will drown each other out. Noise cancelling.

bigmac has it right. An across-the-board cut of spending by every Federal agency. No exceptions. Every budget is cut by the same percentage.You can just hear all the special-interest groups that would be forced to identify themselves and in response: "Are you saying that you won't bear your fair share?"
When the Tea Parties call for an across-the-board fixed-percentage cut in spending, we will also know that they are not just another group of special interests.Do not hold your breath.

[fast4522]

It would be too easy to completely eliminate the IRS and move to a flat tax so everyone would pay with no exceptions. After putting every single IRS employee into unemployment to then take aim on scores of other federal agency's.

[Marshall Bennett]

Your statement about GE is simply incorrect. Perhaps you mean they are deducting interest expense from operating income (all companies do this), but not paying US income taxes (in fact, claiming tax credits recently).
What's incorrect, the amount of the debt or the channel to cover the interest payments? I'm curious and will search for the link.

[Marshall Bennett]

this is a video about 1hr 20 mins. long. i listened to most of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI-BIVWlc7A
I've seen that. Scary stuff. While ultimately he's selling something, it makes a lot of sense none-the-less.

[Marshall Bennett]

Here's another one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAszhWcp-Xw&feature=related It's much shorter, same result.

[Saratoga_Mike]

What's incorrect, the amount of the debt or the channel to cover the interest payments? I'm curious and will search for the link.

There's no channel. The govt isn't paying $30 bb/yr in interest payments for GE. Total indebtedness includes GE, the operating company, and GE, the finance company. On the asset side, make sure you look at the huge finance receivables balance, most of which is related to GE Finance. At one point, companies were issuing commerical paper, which is very short-term financing, with govt support, but that is no longer the case. More important, the govt hasn't made interest payments to GE's bondholders/banks. Again, GE is certainly deducting interest payments from their tax bill, just like any other company. And more recently, they actually received a US tax credit.

If you're really interested, click on this link and select the 10K or 10Q (I'd recommend the Q even though it's quarter old--it's a little more straightforward). If you don't want to believe it, that's ok - I don't really want to defend Jeff Immelt.

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=&match=&CIK=ge&filenum=&State=&Country=&SIC=&owner=exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany

[NJ Stinks]

It would be too easy to completely eliminate the IRS and move to a flat tax so everyone would pay with no exceptions. After putting every single IRS employee into unemployment to then take aim on scores of other federal agency's.

I wish somebody else had asked these questions but here goes:

Who is going to enforce the flat tax after the IRS is dissolved? Or do we just magically expect everyone to report all of their income?

[bigmack]

I wish somebody else had asked these questions but here goes:

Who is going to enforce the flat tax after the IRS is dissolved? Or do we just magically expect everyone to report all of their income?
I was going to ax but arguably the amount would certainly dwindle with the passing of a flat tax.

It will hit harder in the tax preparation business.

According to the IRS 2009 Data Book, IRS workforce counts up 93,337 employees – 91,082 of which being full-time permanent. IRS personnel distributes into 9 activity branches: examinations and collections, filing and account services, information services, prefiling taxpayer assistance and education, shared services and support, investigations, regulatory activities, business systems modernization and health insurance tax credit administration.

[newtothegame]

I wish somebody else had asked these questions but here goes:

Who is going to enforce the flat tax after the IRS is dissolved? Or do we just magically expect everyone to report all of their income?

Why does thre tax have to be on income?
Why can't it be on purchases? Then, the businesses who are selling items would be responsible for the tax. They are ALREADY responsible for sales taxes so not anything new for them. Plus, this would alleviate alot of companies from having added pressures in their payroll departments to handle taxes.

I guess it would be more like a consumption tax as to what I am referring to.

But, I am all for the elimination of the IRS or, at least a great reduction in it.

[Robert Goren]

Oh, you are probably right. I think it is Japan with the 200% level. And it is getting a lot higher really fast.

[cj's dad]

And it is getting a lot higher really fast.

can I make a really base statement here ?? this country and our children and grandchildren are in deep(very deep) doodoo.

[newtothegame]

can I make a really base statement here ?? this country and our children and grandchildren are in deep(very deep) doodoo.

Absolutely right CJ's dad. And what makes it even more pressing is that these idiots in congress are squabbling over mere billions. I have to question that if the majority of americans can see its a problem, how do they not see it?
Now one can argue that well they (meaning congress) are looking out for themselves, but the reality is that they aren't. This is a problem that if not addressed NOW will have reprecussions that can not be reversed. Some even doubt if we can climb out of this as it stands. Well as long as these yo yo's are on this hill, you can only say they make valid arguements about us not being able to recover!

[Tom]

Add them all up (use the high side of all estimates) and you get $213 bb---still need to cut another $1.4 trillion.

OK, but just off the top of my head I got 213 billion - congress is arguing and dragging their feet over 33 bil. And I don't get paid nor do I have a staff.

Med and SS - I think 25%is 100% doable with no decrease in benefits. Just tell the people in charge to do it or turn in their resignations. There is more than 35% fat in every government program. We just need to put our foot down and DEMAND immediate action. any government flunky that can't cut expenses by over 25% in 30 days is a waste.