Wisconsin Thugs up the ante on businesses

[JustRalph]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/118910229.html

"Threatening" boycotts of businesses that don't put up window signs of support for the unions

What's next ?

[redshift1]

Boycotts are not against the law unless Scott Walker authors a new bill outlawing Boycotts, then again that style of legislation is right in his bailiwick. Kudos to Scott and his boardinghouse reach he is singlehandedly resurrecting Wisconsin Democrats.

[HUSKER55]

PEOPLE don't like being threatened. Put up the sign and vote against them.

[bigmack]

resurrecting Wisconsin Democrats.
Resurrected from 4 months ago? Haven't you heard - Walker ran on this very platform. You think he was voted in by those wanting to hang signs?

You think this will galvanize WI to return to a policy pre-Walker and damn be the state budget? Sure you do. Budgets ain't a problem for some until we hit a wall. Some are trying to avoid hitting the wall. Others are hell bent on slamming right into it.

Win your selfish battle and tell your comrades to grab a helmet.

[Tom]

Ralphie, you know what is next. The thugs break the windows. That is the union mentality. I know, I know, another oxymoron. Union and mentality in the same sentence. My bad. Funny how they whine about collective bargaining, but go all out to violate the will of the people as spoken through an election.
Guess union boys only care about themselves. Go figure.

[HUSKER55]

If memory serves, on another thread, didn't someone say the unions contributre $100M to election campaign for BO, or someone? Taxpayers paid for that.

I think the union agreement should be made public and vote on it. That would stop the whole arguement. The taxpayers collectively bargain with labor who collectivly bargains.

[Ocala Mike]

More from Wisconsin:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110331/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions


Ocala Mike

[BlueShoe]

What's next ?
Blocking entrances, intimidating customers, vandalizing vehicles of employees and customers, breaking windows and other acts of vandalism very late at night, stopping vendors from supplying the businesses, picketing in front of the homes of the owners, and so on, ie, doing the same things that union goons have done for at least the last hundred years.

[riskman]

The unions,state employees and state legislators all employed by the state should be required to fund their health care and retirement benefits 100% with their own wages,not additional taxpayer dollars. The state should also not be responsible to deduct union dues from state employees paychecks for transmittal to union headquarters. Let the worker pay the dues out of their own funds and see how that works. This whole situation of entitlement is out of control and government is way to big. State governments that continue to support these type of arrangements will continue down the path of destruction.

[Tom]

The first thing a union goes after in the initial contract is the employer taking out the dues. They know the people will never pay up otherwise.

So, from day 1, the union is looking out for the union, not the members.

[wisconsin]

So, from day 1, the union is looking out for the union, not the members.


Yet the union and it's supporters proclaim that ''it's all for the workers".

My ass.

[Robert Goren]

Business and politics don't mix very well. Im a small town, I used to live in a businessman let slip in a bar that farmers were bunch of whiners (which they are). 3 monthes later, he closed his shop. A friend of mine ran for city council there. He lost a fourth of his business. There was recently a stir about a Target exective and money given to an anti-gay politician. Target backed away rather than lose gay customers. It may not be right, but it is reality.

[boxcar]

The unions,state employees and state legislators all employed by the state should be required to fund their health care and retirement benefits 100% with their own wages,not additional taxpayer dollars. The state should also not be responsible to deduct union dues from state employees paychecks for transmittal to union headquarters. Let the worker pay the dues out of their own funds and see how that works. This whole situation of entitlement is out of control and government is way to big. State governments that continue to support these type of arrangements will continue down the path of destruction.

Hah, hah...the union dues thingy terrifies union bosses because now their members will get bigger paychecks, and they will be forced to part with their own money, if they want to pay dues. It's much more likely that they will miss that money now more than they did when it was deducted sight unseen. What was never in the hand can't be missed very much. This is precisely why the federal government forced businesses to become collection agents for the IRS!

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

AWESOME...this is what needs to happen ALL OVER to these &*$^%^$ unions!!

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4621655/wisconsin-store-owner-battles-union-bullies




http://video.foxnews.com/images/advertisement.png

[Hank]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/118910229.html

"Threatening" boycotts of businesses that don't put up window signs of support for the unions

What's next ?

A boycott is neither illegal nor violent,to refer to this as "thuggery" reveals either ignorance or dis-ingenuousness.

[newtothegame]

A boycott is neither illegal nor violent,to refer to this as "thuggery" reveals either ignorance or dis-ingenuousness.

Well, you may be right Hank...even though some of the tactics by unions are definitelky violent....but now in Wisconsin, it has been turned over to the AG...so we will see!

[JustRalph]

A boycott is neither illegal nor violent,to refer to this as "thuggery" reveals either ignorance or dis-ingenuousness.

you are right..........I should have waited a week........ anticipated thuggery

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Hank
A boycott is neither illegal nor violent,to refer to this as "thuggery" reveals either ignorance or dis-ingenuousness.


To deny it will turn into thuggery is the same.

[bigmack]

I love the yin/yang of it all:

If businesses fail to comply, the letter says, “Failure to do so will leave us no choice but (to) do a public boycott of your business. And sorry, neutral means 'no' to those who work for the largest employer in the area and are union members."

Jim Parrett, a field representative of Council 24 for Southeast Wisconsin, confirmed the contents of the letter, which carries his signature. But he added that the union was also circulating letters to businesses thanking them for supporting workers’ rights.
Yeah, we sent the letter saying we'll boycott your ass but we also sent one to thank you for your support. :lol:

I'm beginning to think Wisconsin is so close to Canada that some of that dumb juice has slipped into the H2O.

[NJ Stinks]

The BS here is running pretty high. I was in a union for 33 years and didn't need to be. So all of my union dues were voluntarily paid for over 3 decades. Over 75% of my colleagues did and do the same thing - voluntarily pay. To say Boxcar is a tad off in Post #13 would be more than polite. :rolleyes:

The letter wasn't a good idea. Better to perhaps create a list of businesses of various types that are endorsed by the union. Businesses don't get on the list unless a union member gives the OK.

Nobody wants to be told they must do something. That includes being told to put a sign in one's business window. The tendency is to push back.

P.S. I'm proud to say I'm still in the union. But I pay a lot less being retired.

[newtothegame]

The BS here is running pretty high. I was in a union for 33 years and didn't need to be. So all of my union dues were voluntarily paid for over 3 decades. Over 75% of my colleagues did and do the same thing - voluntarily pay. To say Boxcar is a tad off in Post #13 would be more than polite. :rolleyes:

The letter wasn't a good idea. Better to perhaps create a list of businesses of various types that are endorsed by the union. Businesses don't get on the list unless a union member gives the OK.

Nobody wants to be told they must do something. That includes being told to put a sign in one's business window. The tendency is to push back.

P.S. I'm proud to say I'm still in the union. But I pay a lot less being retired.

Maybe I am missing something in your post...but to belong to a union, your dues are NOT voluntary. And there are many jobs which can NOT be had, unless you are part of the union. Yours may of been one of the exceptions, I am not sure.
But to suggest that dues are somehow voluntary is just misleading.
In advance, if you were saying that working in a union or not was voluntary for you...my mistake. But, I am pretty sure the dues were not voluntary if you were in the union.

[HUSKER55]

it is bully tactics pure and simple.

[lsbets]

A boycott is neither illegal nor violent,to refer to this as "thuggery" reveals either ignorance or dis-ingenuousness.

You reveal your ignorance(your dishonesty was revealed a long time ago when you failed to live up to your word). Anyway, here are the relevant Wisconsin statutes:

943.30 Threats to injure or accuse of crime. (1) Whoever, either verbally or by any written or printed communication,
maliciously threatens to accuse or accuses another of any crime or offense, or threatens or commits any injury to the person, property, business, profession, calling or trade, or the profits and income of any business, profession, calling or trade of another, with intent thereby to extort money or any pecuniary advantage whatever, or with intent to compel the person so threatened to do any act against the person’s will or omit to do any lawful act, is guilty of a Class H felony.

943.31 Threats to communicate derogatory information. Whoever threatens to communicate to anyone information, whether true or false, which would injure the reputation of the threatened person or another unless the threatened person transfers property to a person known not to be entitled to it is guilty of a Class I felony.
History: 1977 c. 173; 2001 a. 109.
A threat to injure a manager’s reputation unless a job is offered violated this section.
State v. Gilkes, 118 Wis. 2d 149, 345 N.W.2d 531 (Ct. App. 1984).

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0943.pdf

Clearly these threats by the union thugs might be in violation of the law. It is illegal in Wisconsin to compel someone to do something against their will be threatening them. The wannabe mobsters in the union should be locked up

[ArlJim78]

This story is great, a small Wisconsin business owner stood up to the bullies, refused to put up the union sign or to be intimidated by the subsequent threatening letter she rec'd. Now her story got out, she's all over the media, and her business is BOOMING! people are coming from all around to suport her store. watch her interview at the link, she's a real nice hardworking grandmother.

I'm the type of person, if I see a sign on a business that says they support the unions, I would specifically avoid that establishment. and I don't think I'm alone.

Wisconsin Store Owner Thumbs Her Nose At Union Bullies (http://weaselzippers.us/2011/04/01/wisconsin-store-owner-thumbs-her-nose-at-union-bullies/)

[ArlJim78]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcRGH3Ga1c&feature=player_embedded
3bcRGH3Ga1c

same story on youtube.

[The Judge]

this is all it takes to change the whole dynamics of a movement. Now a the big bad UNION is beating up on GRANDMOTHERS. The right wing will run this into the ground. Its almost as if this guy PARRETT is a PLANT or very very stupid.


Union Back Off

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_6bee6a90-5c99-11e0-a0d5-001cc4c03286.html

[Let's Roll]

I think the mistake made by the Union was in writing the letters. If the Union had just set up a picket line and protested in front of the store, in a peacefull and orderly manner, I think the store owner would have no recourse.

The way this was handled appears to be unlawfull, because of the intimidation in writing. Good for that woman for fighting back, nice to hear that her store is doing well.

[ArlJim78]

this is how the unions work. there is nothing different about what they are attempting with the local businesses, and how their contract demands are met. they threaten to harm the taxpayer, community, students, companies, whatever, until their demands are met. pay-up or your kids won't be taught, your business will be all be shut down, etc.
that's what unions are; organized adult bullies. it's like when Don Fanucci went around to all the neighborhood shops with his hand out. they paid up and kept quiet if they didn't want any trouble.

[mostpost]

Maybe I am missing something in your post...but to belong to a union, your dues are NOT voluntary. And there are many jobs which can NOT be had, unless you are part of the union. Yours may of been one of the exceptions, I am not sure.
But to suggest that dues are somehow voluntary is just misleading.
In advance, if you were saying that working in a union or not was voluntary for you...my mistake. But, I am pretty sure the dues were not voluntary if you were in the union.
That's not what NJ said. He said he did not have to be in a union. Apparently he worked in an open shop. Once he decided to join the union, he was required to pay the dues. That only makes sense. If you belong to an organization which benefits you, you ought to support it.

[mostpost]

Resurrected from 4 months ago? Haven't you heard - Walker ran on this very platform.
No! He did not.
The best discussion of this is found at Politifact Wisconsin.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/

They go into a quite detailed account of what was said and what was not said by Walker. According to the Journal Sentinel (Which publishes the Politifact column) Walker never said during his campaign that he would force unions to give up collective bargaining. From the article:
It seemed to us like the first public hint Walker gave that he was considering eliminating many union bargaining rights was at a Dec. 7, 2010 Milwaukee Press Club forum, some four weeks after the election.

During the campaign Walker often talked about asking unions for concessions. The Journal Sentinel was unable to find any instances in which he said that he would unilaterally take away their rights to bargain collectively.

Again from the article:
In October, as Walker held a steady lead in opinion polls over his Democratic opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, rumors circulated in union circles about Walker favoring a major power grab from unions.

That’s according to Richard Abelson, who heads District Council 48 of the American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees, which had negotiated with Walker for eight years in his position as Milwaukee County executive.

Abelson, whose union endorsed Barrett, said: "We heard rumors he would remove pension and health as mandatory subjects of bargaining."

But at that time, nothing so direct was publicly stated.

So people in the know, such as union officials, had their suspicions. But even they were not certain, and the average person in Wisconsin had heard no specific proposals from Walker.

A number of people directly involved in Democratic candidate Tom Barrett's campaign expressed surprise at the actions Walker took after he was elected.

Abelson, the union leader, said Walker’s February announcement of his plan "went far beyond what anybody thought he would do. He didn’t talk about it during the campaign. If he had said that, some people who supported him would have had some second thoughts."

Barrett’s campaign aide Gillian Morris also said they heard nothing in the campaign to suggest Walker would back sharp limits on union power -- and the repeal of all union rights for tens of thousands -- in his proposal.

Bryan Kennedy, president of AFT-Wisconsin, the union that distributed the flier warning about Walker’s labor record, said he figured Walker would try to weaken collective bargaining and privatize a lot of state jobs.

Summing up:
From Politifact:
Let’s sum up our research.

Walker contends he clearly "campaigned on" his union bargaining plan.

But Walker, who offered many specific proposals during the campaign, did not go public with even the bare-bones of his multi-faceted plans to sharply curb collective bargaining rights. He could not point to any statements where he did. We could find none either.

While Walker often talked about employees paying more for pensions and health care, in his budget-repair bill he connected it to collective bargaining changes that were far different from his campaign rhetoric in terms of how far his plan goes and the way it would be accomplished.

We rate his statement False.

Once again you are tested and found wanting, :eek: :eek:

[mostpost]

To address the substance of the thread; if the unions did threaten to boycott businesses which refused to display their signs, it was a very stupid move on their part. You can't force someone to like you. You can't force someone to support you. All this action does is give sustenance to your enemies.

The unions have the right to boycott and/or picket businesses that are actively supporting the other side. They have no right (and it is counterproductive) to coerce any business into supporting them.

[Let's Roll]

this is how the unions work. there is nothing different about what they are attempting with the local businesses, and how their contract demands are met. they threaten to harm the taxpayer, community, students, companies, whatever, until their demands are met. pay-up or your kids won't be taught, your business will be all be shut down, etc.
that's what unions are; organized adult bullies. it's like when Don Fanucci went around to all the neighborhood shops with his hand out. they paid up and kept quiet if they didn't want any trouble.
Not all Unions are the same.I belong to a private Labor Union, we do none of the things you mentioned.We picket local business all the time, I was on 3 lines in the 2 weeks. Our Union protests peacefully and lawfully.

[Tom]

Time to start picketing the unions.

[Tom]

Time to start picketing the unions.
I mean their homes - take it to their family. See how the thugs like it.

Pick a union leader and put he and his family through hell.

Follow his wife shipping, his kids to school - give them a lesson in what Daddy does.

[Saratoga_Mike]

In Philadelphia, unions hold protests at any establishment that dares renovate or build-a-new without union labor. And 90% union labor isn't good enough. You must use 100% union labor or they will picket in front of your business, sometimes with a megaphone in hand, which recently happened at Boyd's, an upscale clothier in Center City. Most recently, they started picketing a coffee shop that didn't use all union labor (see attached link). I love this quote from the article:

"I can't make them eat in my restaurants, so they have no right to make me hire them," said Schlisman (a local restaurant owner) who believes all the attention has helped business.

I'd also like to ask all those picketing if they've ever shopped at a Wal-Mart, eaten at McDonalds or ever purchased anything that wasn't made entirely by union labor? If they have, doesn't that make them hypocrites?

I'm going to get a coffee at the picketed coffee shop tomorrow to show my support for the owners.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/119045139.html

[Tom]

I'm going to get a coffee at the picketed coffee shop tomorrow to show my support for the owners.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

SOLIDARITY!:D

[bigmack]

ABC, CBS, MSNBC, NBC, and NPR totally ignored Wisconsin Republicans receiving death threats as a result of their support for Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill.

And people whine about Fox. :rolleyes:

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/main_375/main_photos/2011/April/Windels_0.JPG

According to LexisNexis and Google searches, not one major American newspaper outside of Wisconsin has reported her being charged.

Not one.

[ArlJim78]

Not all Unions are the same.I belong to a private Labor Union, we do none of the things you mentioned.We picket local business all the time, I was on 3 lines in the 2 weeks. Our Union protests peacefully and lawfully.
I said the goal was to harm the other party, meaning economic harm. when you picket local business all the time, why are you doing it? is it not to make the company suffer to the point that they give in? I'm curious when you say you were on 3 lines in 2 weeks. Are you picketing your own company, or targeting other non union companies? I'm just curious why all the picketing.

[Let's Roll]

I said the goal was to harm the other party, meaning economic harm. when you picket local business all the time, why are you doing it? is it not to make the company suffer to the point that they give in? I'm curious when you say you were on 3 lines in 2 weeks. Are you picketing your own company, or targeting other non union companies? I'm just curious why all the picketing.
I picketed 2 different jobsites, commercial buildings under active construction.
We do not block side walks or driveways. We do not block street traffic, impede pedestrians or go on private property. All the picketers carry a cardboard sign stating "To The Public", "So & So" contractor does not pay fair wages and benefits according to our standards. The sign is mounted on a heavy cardboard tube, no wooden sticks. Every picket line is filmed entirely by 2 cameras so there is never a chance for a "he said/she said" dispute. No smoking is allowed on the line, we also do not curse. There are no bullhorns.
Our intention is to inform the public, those who see us from the street, that we protest the lower wages and industry standards the company in question offers.
I am content to let the public decide which businesses, vendors and contractors they want to use.
BTW, the companies we "target" rarely give us work or "give in".

[HUSKER55]

Jesse Jackson supports it because he came here to show his support.

How much proof does anyone need?

[Boris]

I picketed 2 different jobsites, commercial buildings under active construction.
We do not block side walks or driveways. We do not block street traffic, impede pedestrians or go on private property. All the picketers carry a cardboard sign stating "To The Public", "So & So" contractor does not pay fair wages and benefits according to our standards. The sign is mounted on a heavy cardboard tube, no wooden sticks. Every picket line is filmed entirely by 2 cameras so there is never a chance for a "he said/she said" dispute. No smoking is allowed on the line, we also do not curse. There are no bullhorns.
Our intention is to inform the public, those who see us from the street, that we protest the lower wages and industry standards the company in question offers.
I am content to let the public decide which businesses, vendors and contractors they want to use.
BTW, the companies we "target" rarely give us work or "give in".

Just curious, What are you paid vs. the worker in the same job at the company you picket?

[Let's Roll]

Just curious, What are you paid vs. the worker in the same job at the company you picket?
Just guessing because I have no way of actually knowing, they would be paid slightly more than half in wages and little or no benefits at all.

[newtothegame]

Big your "guessing", how would you really know? Someone made a decision to picket.....Just guessing because I have no way of actually knowing, they would be paid slightly more than half in wages and little or no benefits at all.

[Boris]

Just guessing because I have no way of actually knowing, they would be paid slightly more than half in wages and little or no benefits at all.

Just curious #2, is the quality of your work twice as good as the other worker being paid half as much?

[NJ Stinks]

That's not what NJ said. He said he did not have to be in a union. Apparently he worked in an open shop. Once he decided to join the union, he was required to pay the dues. That only makes sense. If you belong to an organization which benefits you, you ought to support it.

Correct, Mostpost.

Even retired I voluntarily stay in the union for a several reasons. First, the union defends workers from dumbass managers a lot more than vice-versa. That's an important part of good place to work IMO. Anyway, I want to continue to support my former colleagues and staying in the union as a retiree is the only way I can do that. Second, it only costs me $42 a year in uion dues to stay connected to a job a I did for a long time. (I may be down $42 after the early DD at Gulfstream tomorrow. :) ) And lastly, I know part of my union dues are going to support Democratic candidates and issues that I believe in.

[bigmack]

Correct, Mostpost.

Even retired I voluntarily stay in the union for a several reasons. First, the union defends workers from dumbass managers a lot more than vice-versa. That's an important part of good place to work IMO. Anyway, I want to continue to support my former colleagues and staying in the union as a retiree is the only way I can do that. Second, it only costs me $42 a year in uion dues to stay connected to a job a I did for a long time. (I may be down $42 after the early DD at Gulfstream tomorrow. :) ) And lastly, I know part of my union dues are going to support Democratic candidates and issues that I believe in.
Touching story.

Have you heard the one about entry level/bag boys in almost every grocery store in CA forced to join the union @ $100/mo. & pony-up $165 prior to working for initiation?

For every one of your stories I'd wager there are 10 of the one I outlined.

[NJ Stinks]

Touching story.

Have you heard the one about entry level/bag boys in almost every grocery store in CA forced to join the union @ $100/mo. & pony-up $165 prior to working for initiation?

For every one of your stories I'd wager there are 10 of the one I outlined.

45 years ago I worked for A&P and had to join the union. It was tough on a part-timer like I was at the time. But the full-timers coud afford to support a family working at A&P because of the union.

[bigmack]

45 years ago I worked for A&P and had to join the union. It was tough on a part-timer like I was at the time. But the full-timers coud afford to support a family working at A&P because of the union.
The UFCW almost negotiated every one of their employees out of a job here in CA a few years back. Held out for months and got nothing. For the most part you ask any of the workers in the grocery store and they say they can't see much of what they get from union membership but less lettuce in their wallet.

With the exception of waivers from Dem's for a PoS bill because they donatated funds.

Incest is ugly.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/foodunion.png

[Tom]

BTW, the companies we "target" rarely give us work or "give in".


Wonder why?:rolleyes:

Sounds like they do alright, those dirty cheapskates..
Ever consider the fact that what they pay is between them and their employees, who made the decision to work for them? That maybe it is none of your business what other people do?

You have a lot of free time....why is that?

[Let's Roll]

Just curious #2, is the quality of your work twice as good as the other worker being paid half as much?A contractor could pay 2 men to do my work if they are each paid half as much.If you factor in the benefits he could probably afford a 3rd or 4th worker. As individuals they could make more mistakes, work slower and have more accidents and still out perform me collectively. The contractor will almost always be ahead using non union labor.

[Let's Roll]

Wonder why?:rolleyes:

Sounds like they do alright, those dirty cheapskates..
Ever consider the fact that what they pay is between them and their employees, who made the decision to work for them? That maybe it is none of your business what other people do?

You have a lot of free time....why is that?
We are not making it a point to harass contractors, that's why I even mentioned picket lines, because of the difference between our protests and what happened in Wisconsin. If you noticed, several posts back, I supported the female shop owner.
You are correct, the relationship between the contractor and his employees is none of my business. I hope you don't think I want it to be. However, that does not mean I can't protest the low pay and benefits in public.
The construction industry has an across the board unemplyment rate higher than the national average, especially in my area.

[JustRalph]

Can I go back to using Thugs now ?

I knew it wouldn't take long.........

[newtothegame]

Correct, Mostpost.

Even retired I voluntarily stay in the union for a several reasons. First, the union defends workers from dumbass managers a lot more than vice-versa. That's an important part of good place to work IMO. Anyway, I want to continue to support my former colleagues and staying in the union as a retiree is the only way I can do that. Second, it only costs me $42 a year in uion dues to stay connected to a job a I did for a long time. (I may be down $42 after the early DD at Gulfstream tomorrow. :) ) And lastly, I know part of my union dues are going to support Democratic candidates and issues that I believe in.

I guess if you want to work at a place with "dumb ass " managers, it would explain alot!
Secondly, why would anyone in their right mind wish to work for a place with incompetent management? Seems that business wouldnt be around long under those circumstances.
And your last statement is what alot of the fuss around the country is about. I guess there are no union workers who would like to vote other then democrat???
Seems there money shouldnt be going to support a candidtate they wouldnt vote for outright....

[newtothegame]

We are not making it a point to harass contractors, that's why I even mentioned picket lines, because of the difference between our protests and what happened in Wisconsin. If you noticed, several posts back, I supported the female shop owner.
You are correct, the relationship between the contractor and his employees is none of my business. I hope you don't think I want it to be. However, that does not mean I can't protest the low pay and benefits in public.
The construction industry has an across the board unemplyment rate higher than the national average, especially in my area.

Earlier in this same thread, you said you were "guessing" as to what they were or were not being paid. Now again, you claim they are making low wages and benefits. truth is, you arent really sure as you stated.
I will give you the benefit and say on average, union wages are probably a bit higher...
But, when you factor in dues, and YOUR vote going to someone you may not like...well I think its all phooey! Not too mention, just look around the country at the burdens unions have placed on companies, and tax payers through...THUG tactics.
Now you may not call it that...but when companies are FORCED to go along with raises, or face strikes which could put them out of business...well seems like THUG tactics to me.

[redshift1]

Correct, Mostpost.

Even retired I voluntarily stay in the union for a several reasons. First, the union defends workers from dumbass managers a lot more than vice-versa. That's an important part of good place to work IMO. Anyway, I want to continue to support my former colleagues and staying in the union as a retiree is the only way I can do that. Second, it only costs me $42 a year in uion dues to stay connected to a job a I did for a long time. (I may be down $42 after the early DD at Gulfstream tomorrow. :) ) And lastly, I know part of my union dues are going to support Democratic candidates and issues that I believe in.


As a former manager I disagree with you most managers are reluctant to fire because of the training curve they would rather retain an employee because of the time and cost to train a new employee.


"dumb ass managers" sounds like a bitch session slogan.. "gimme another beer"

[bigmack]

I guess if you want to work at a place with "dumb ass " managers, it would explain alot!
Secondly, why would anyone in their right mind wish to work for a place with incompetent management? Seems that business wouldnt be around long under those circumstances.
And your last statement is what alot of the fuss around the country is about. I guess there are no union workers who would like to vote other then democrat???
Seems there money shouldnt be going to support a candidtate they wouldnt vote for outright....
The irony of it all is that he was a Fed. I have to assume it was the Union for Federal Employees.

Is it possible they contributed to political campaigns AND had dumb assed managers?

[NJ Stinks]

I guess if you want to work at a place with "dumb ass " managers, it would explain alot!
Secondly, why would anyone in their right mind wish to work for a place with incompetent management? Seems that business wouldnt be around long under those circumstances.
And your last statement is what alot of the fuss around the country is about. I guess there are no union workers who would like to vote other then democrat???
Seems there money shouldnt be going to support a candidtate they wouldnt vote for outright....

Over 3 decades one gets a whole bunch of managers with various levels of competence. I probably had at least 10 different managers myself. From the outside looking in it's probably hard to visualize the size and mobility of the organization.

Without a doubt at least 85% of my co-workers voted Democratic. And it's fair to say that it was mostly Republicans at work who did not join our union. In true Republican fashion they felt entitled to the employee rights the union secured but they didn't want to pay anything. It's the same mindset that decided to fight a war in Iraq and cut taxes at the same time.

[bigmack]

It's the same mindset that decided to fight a war in Iraq and cut taxes at the same time.
Somebody give this man a rimshot.
http://instantrimshot.com/

In light of your fondness for taxes, NJ, you didn't by chance make a commission on them and still draw that 'commish' in retirement? :rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

As a former manager I disagree with you most managers are reluctant to fire because of the training curve they would rather retain an employee because of the time and cost to train a new employee.


"dumb ass managers" sounds like a bitch session slogan.. "gimme another beer"

Not sure what you are saying here. I didn't say anything about managers being reluctant to fire anybody.

As for the dumbass part, if the manager is good at what he does, the union is basically no factor in the workplace. I worked for some great managers too if that makes you feel any better.

[NJ Stinks]

Somebody give this man a rimshot.
http://instantrimshot.com/

In light of your fondness for taxes, NJ, you didn't by chance make a commission on them and still draw that 'commish' in retirement? :rolleyes:

Sorry, Mack. I just can't help myself when I hear conservatives trying to sound like they have the high moral ground. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm off to bed so if you decide to take another shot yourself, I won't enjoy seeing it until tomorrow. ;)

[Tom]

The construction industry has an across the board unemplyment rate higher than the national average, especially in my area.

Well now, harassing contractors and setting up picket lines should really bring in the new jobs. Good plan.

Maybe we should start picketing race tracks - that'll fill up the seats.

You never answered my question, though - since picketing is so good and harmless, what do you think about us picketing the your families? You know, follow your wife tot he store, kids to school. Good plan, huh? I mean, legal and harmless, right?

[Let's Roll]

Earlier in this same thread, you said you were "guessing" as to what they were or were not being paid. Now again, you claim they are making low wages and benefits. truth is, you arent really sure as you stated.
I will give you the benefit and say on average, union wages are probably a bit higher...
But, when you factor in dues, and YOUR vote going to someone you may not like...well I think its all phooey! Not too mention, just look around the country at the burdens unions have placed on companies, and tax payers through...THUG tactics.
Now you may not call it that...but when companies are FORCED to go along with raises, or face strikes which could put them out of business...well seems like THUG tactics to me.
You raise a good point. My dues may go to support candidates that I don't personally approve of, if it offended me enough I could leave the Union. I live with the situation the way it is. My votes in local, State and Federal elections are mine to make alone, most of the time I vote against candidates my Union supports.
We may disagree on what we would define as thug tactics. I am comfortable with a Union using peacefull, law abiding protests. I do not approve of thug tactics like the situation in Wisconsin with the shop owner.

[Let's Roll]

Well now, harassing contractors and setting up picket lines should really bring in the new jobs. Good plan.

Maybe we should start picketing race tracks - that'll fill up the seats.

You never answered my question, though - since picketing is so good and harmless, what do you think about us picketing the your families? You know, follow your wife tot he store, kids to school. Good plan, huh? I mean, legal and harmless, right?
I am not sure if what you propose is legal, it sure sounds like something my Union would never do and something I would not want to be part of. If anyone did that to my family I would not like it.

[newtothegame]

Well, if nothing else Roll...your alright by me. At least your willing to say when something has crossed a line even if affiliated with the likes of those.
But, it is tough about the voting and support.

[JustRalph]

I am not sure if what you propose is legal, it sure sounds like something my Union would never do and something I would not want to be part of. If anyone did that to my family I would not like it.

I guess you missed left wing demonstrators showing up at bank execs homes and other similar left wing organized events. If I remember right some were organized by unions.

Not saying u personally condone it, just pointing out it has been a tactic of the left

[Boris]

A contractor could pay 2 men to do my work if they are each paid half as much.If you factor in the benefits he could probably afford a 3rd or 4th worker. As individuals they could make more mistakes, work slower and have more accidents and still out perform me collectively. The contractor will almost always be ahead using non union labor.

Since you didn't address the quality, I'll assume they are equal or perhaps close enough. I get the point you are making above. It appears that the union is inflating the wages, and therefore the end cost, of your product. I can't remember an example where this has worked out over time. The current American consumer is bottom-line cheap, and cares nothing about driving jobs overseas or to illegal workers if it puts money in their pocket. And hence, IMO, why unions are thought of so poorly today. They bring no tangible value to the consumer, and only serve to increase the end cost. The American worker will replace unions with something that makes more sense in time.

[Tom]

Not saying u personally condone it, just pointing out it has been a tactic of the leftUnions have been the goon squad for Obama.

[redshift1]

Boycotts are not against the law unless Scott Walker authors a new bill outlawing Boycotts, then again that style of legislation is right in his bailiwick. Kudos to Scott and his boardinghouse reach he is singlehandedly resurrecting Wisconsin Democrats.



No telling how this plays out but thanks again Scott.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42447253/ns/politics-more_politics/

[newtothegame]

No telling how this plays out but thanks again Scott.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42447253/ns/politics-more_politics/

Ok, so what are ya trying to say....??
Thanks for ressurecting democrats?
That somehow a liberal leaning court (although still undecided) will be more of an activist for the newly ressurected democrats? You know libs do tend to legislate from the bench lol.
(Although, as your story stated, will be above Wisconsin. this will more then likely go to the US supreme court.)

[bigmack]

Three small nuggets and one is able to draw conclusions on the level of impact propaganda has had on some in WI.

Prosser has told The Associated Press he doesn't necessarily agree with the law. Still, bitter Democrats have portrayed him as a Walker clone, helping Kloppenburg's campaign gain traction over the last few weeks.

Pat Heiser, 76, said the union struggles weighed heavily on her decision to vote for Kloppenburg.

"I think collective bargaining should be a human right," Heiser said. "We're not slaves anymore; that ended in the 1860s."

[redshift1]

Three small nuggets and one is able to draw conclusions on the level of impact propaganda has had on some in WI.

Name a political party that doesn't use propaganda.

[bigmack]

Name a political party that doesn't use propaganda.
Oh Gawd.

Grab a bird to WI and help the cause. It's the end of the working man, ya know.

[rastajenk]

That it was going to be a f@@@#d up election with late precincts and a margin in the hundreds and an alleged Dem-sympathizer in an alleged non partisan election getting the bob was probably the surest 1-9 bet to come down the road in quite a while.

[bigmack]

That it was going to be a f@@@#d up election with late precincts and a margin in the hundreds and an alleged Dem-sympathizer in an alleged non partisan election getting the bob was probably the surest 1-9 bet to come down the road in quite a while.
][

Unfortunately Wisconsin election law practically begs people to commit election fraud. It has same-day registration, which allows people to show up at the polls, register with minimal ID requirements, and then vote. Don’t have ID? No problem! All you need is someone who is registered in the same city to vouch for you. According to John Fund of the Wall Street Journal, perhaps the country’s leading expert on voter fraud,

A 67-page 2008 report by investigators for the Milwaukee Police Department blew the whistle on what it called an “illegal organized attempt to influence the outcome of [the 2004] election in the state of Wisconsin”—a swing state where recent presidential elections have often been very close. The report found that in 2004 between 4,600 and 5,300 more votes were counted in Milwaukee than the number of voters recorded as having cast ballots. Absentee ballots were cast by people living elsewhere; ineligible felons not only voted but worked at the polls; transient college students cast improper votes; and homeless voters possibly voted more than once. The report found that in 2004 a total of 1,305 “same day” voters gave information that was declared “un-enterable” or invalid by election officials.

[rastajenk]

Election peculiarities seem to be a way of life up there in the ol' Northwest Territories. We outlanders shouldn't pass judgment or be too harsh on assessing what must be a cultural tic. I imagine if you press one from there about the sanctity of the vote and the importance of the electoral process, he'd probably look at you blankly for a few seconds and say, "Well, duh, that's why we do it this way." It's practically in their genes.

[NJ Stinks]

That it was going to be a f@@@#d up election with late precincts and a margin in the hundreds and an alleged Dem-sympathizer in an alleged non partisan election getting the bob was probably the surest 1-9 bet to come down the road in quite a while.

If the people of Wisconsin loved your man Walker and his policies this election would have been a breeze.

It wasn't.

Obviously, all that baloney about the people of WISCONSIN speaking at the polls is no longer applicable. :rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

If the people of Wisconsin loved your man Walker and his policies this election would have been a breeze.

It wasn't.

Obviously, all that baloney about the people of WISCONSIN speaking at the polls is no longer applicable. :rolleyes:
so is it your assertion that somehow a liberal court will change this? Ohhh yeah, I forgot. You think its ok to be an activist from the bench. if not, then you have to say that it wouldnt matter whether liberal, or conservative court.
Personally, it doesnt matter to me. in order to change it, they must find that it was done illegally. Would you care to point what was illegal about its passing?

[mostpost]

so is it your assertion that somehow a liberal court will change this? Ohhh yeah, I forgot. You think its ok to be an activist from the bench. if not, then you have to say that it wouldnt matter whether liberal, or conservative court.
Personally, it doesnt matter to me. in order to change it, they must find that it was done illegally. Would you care to point what was illegal about its passing?
Wisconsin's Open Meetings law requires 24 hour notice of any meeting. Republicans gave two hours in this case. They later claimed that this was all right because they followed Senate rules. Problem is Senate rules do not supersede state law.

[newtothegame]

Wisconsin's Open Meetings law requires 24 hour notice of any meeting. Republicans gave two hours in this case. They later claimed that this was all right because they followed Senate rules. Problem is Senate rules do not supersede state law.

A link showing the TWO hour meeting would be nice....

[NJ Stinks]

so is it your assertion that somehow a liberal court will change this?

Surely, you didn't miss my point, Newt. The point I'm making is that all we heard from the right was that people of Wisconsin spoke when they elected Walker in November and now Walker was doing what he said he was going to do before he got elected.

Based on these recent elections, either the people of Wisconsin did not have any idea what Walker was going to do if elected or they changed their minds about liking Walker's pre-election platform.

[newtothegame]

Surely, you didn't miss my point, Newt. The point I'm making is that all we heard from the right was that people of Wisconsin spoke when they elected Walker in November and now Walker was doing what he said he was going to do before he got elected.

Based on these recent elections, either the people of Wisconsin did not have any idea what Walker was going to do if elected or they changed their minds about liking Walker's pre-election platform.

No, I got your point ....what your not getting is that elcting a court is much different then electing politicians. And as i asked....which you still are NOT answering...do you think a liberal court will make a difference? And why?

[NJ Stinks]

No, I got your point ....what your not getting is that elcting a court is much different then electing politicians. And as i asked....which you still are NOT answering...do you think a liberal court will make a difference? And why?

I hope so. For obvious reasons. Namely, I'm pro labor and pro collective bargaining.

[newtothegame]

I hope so. For obvious reasons. Namely, I'm pro labor and pro collective bargaining.

Well even if you dont openly say it...at least we know that you think a liberal leaning court will be "activist".... :bang:

[NJ Stinks]

Well even if you dont openly say it...at least we know that you think a liberal leaning court will be "activist".... :bang:

Am I the only person who thinks about the importance of the political leanings of judges?

[mostpost]

A link showing the TWO hour meeting would be nice....
Always want to be nice.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/31580

[newtothegame]

Am I the only person who thinks about the importance of the political leanings of judges?
Not sure if your the only one...but judges are supposed to be impartial. They are supposed to apply the law...not make the law. I never cared previously about the politics because (and I guess this was my ignorance) I always assumed a judge would be impartial. But, looking at the money in this race,(and I doubt anyone can say it was all from within state), its obvious that your not alone in your thinking of judges being political!

[newtothegame]

Always want to be nice.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/31580
Thanks....
But I will tell you after reading the link...I still think the law cant be overturned.
Did they use two hours....YES
But, I believe they can in cases of emergency.
Session was an "emergency" session...and no one can claim there werent death threats and such thug tactics....
Seems like an emergency to me!
Not to mention the dems couldnt be contacted as they were Hiding...remember???

[bigmack]

mosty is stinkin' up the joint with his hypocrisy of how HusseinCare was passed and the WI law passed.

Can you say, Crammed down the throat?

http://pajamasmedia.com/files/2010/11/nancy-pelosi-gavel.jpg

[Capper Al]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/118910229.html

"Threatening" boycotts of businesses that don't put up window signs of support for the unions

What's next ?

From wikipedia:

Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing (/wiki/Social_influence) the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself.

As opposed to impartially (/wiki/Objectivity_(journalism)) providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission (/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission)) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of political warfare (/wiki/Political_warfare).

[Tom]

re·dun·dant (rhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-dhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ubreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifdhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifnt)adj.
1. Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
2. Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
3. Of or relating to linguistic redundancy.

[Capper Al]

re·dun·dant (rhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-dhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ubreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifdhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifnt)adj.
1. Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
2. Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
3. Of or relating to linguistic redundancy.

You're right. That is what all this right wing stuff is -- Redundant Propaganda!

[bigmack]

News that WI will have a major announcement this afternoon.

Scuttlebutt has it they counted 7000 more votes for Prosser.

Yesterday, others we're celebrating otherwise.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/wielection.png

[bigmack]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

9VNpKvwQeJM

[bigmack]

Based on these recent elections, either the people of Wisconsin did not have any idea what Walker was going to do if elected or they changed their minds about liking Walker's pre-election platform.
:rolleyes:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/WIelect.png

[newtothegame]

Ohhh crap...a "clerical error"...I wonder where NJ and mosty are now claiming how this is a huge victory for Wisconsin???
But either way, as i said before...a judge should not legislate from the bench.
If true though, I am awefully glad to see all that union money go down the drain.
Hey NJ...seems the wisconsin people were vindicated??

[ArlJim78]

The people of Wisconsin have supported Walker once again, despite the unions squandering millions of laundered taxpayer dollars.


THIS is what democracy looks like!

[newtothegame]

Now I am waiting for the cries of "foul", cheated, stolen....:lol:

[bigmack]

This shit is too funny.

Note the breaking news chyron onscreen as Matthews and company were busy dissecting the significance of Kloppenburg’s win.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/20111-1.jpg

[Tom]

You're right. That is what all this right wing stuff is -- Redundant Propaganda!

Strange you never mention that when the left posts crap.
Why, one might accuse YOU of the same thing you stalk Ralph for. :D

[NJ Stinks]

Now I am waiting for the cries of "foul", cheated, stolen....:lol:

Do you mean like this one in this thread?

That it was going to be a f@@@#d up election with late precincts and a margin in the hundreds and an alleged Dem-sympathizer in an alleged non partisan election getting the bob was probably the surest 1-9 bet to come down the road in quite a while.

Or this one?


Unfortunately Wisconsin election law practically begs people to commit election fraud. It has same-day registration, which allows people to show up at the polls, register with minimal ID requirements, and then vote. Don’t have ID? No problem! All you need is someone who is registered in the same city to vouch for you. According to John Fund of the Wall Street Journal, perhaps the country’s leading expert on voter fraud,

A 67-page 2008 report by investigators for the Milwaukee Police Department blew the whistle on what it called an “illegal organized attempt to influence the outcome of [the 2004] election in the state of Wisconsin”—a swing state where recent presidential elections have often been very close. The report found that in 2004 between 4,600 and 5,300 more votes were counted in Milwaukee than the number of voters recorded as having cast ballots. Absentee ballots were cast by people living elsewhere; ineligible felons not only voted but worked at the polls; transient college students cast improper votes; and homeless voters possibly voted more than once. The report found that in 2004 a total of 1,305 “same day” voters gave information that was declared “un-enterable” or invalid by election officials.

][

No? Then surely this one.

Election peculiarities seem to be a way of life up there in the ol' Northwest Territories. We outlanders shouldn't pass judgment or be too harsh on assessing what must be a cultural tic. I imagine if you press one from there about the sanctity of the vote and the importance of the electoral process, he'd probably look at you blankly for a few seconds and say, "Well, duh, that's why we do it this way." It's practically in their genes.


Let's just say the cheese looks mouldy, Newt.

[bigmack]

Let's just say the cheese looks mouldy, Newt.
Nice try. The fact remains WI is an electoral mess.

The fact also remains, you were WAY off.

[JustRalph]

I had schadenfreude for dinner tonight............ :lol:

[HUSKER55]

It was a clerical error, something about entering into the database, and the checks and balances caught it.

The biggest problem is all the municple clerk officies run the elections and not the counties. That means instead of 72 county clerks you have around 1900 municiple clerks entering data. No one trusts big government.

There were reps from all parties present.

[ArlJim78]

AP headline from this morning, when they thought Kloppenburg had won by 204 votes.

Wis. voters send governor strong, angry message (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1079516)

[rastajenk]

It ain't over til it's over, NJ. The Klop woman has hired the goons that helped Al Franken steal his election, so all bets are still on the table. Seven thousand sounds like a lot for the Dems to find in the provisionals, but don't count them out yet. I think my observations still stand.

And if it doesn't turn out like the sure thing I said it was....there's a reason they call 'em bridgejumpers, I guess. :)

[mostpost]

As soon as I heard this, I thought something doesn't feel right here. How convenient that they suddenly found 7500 votes for Prosser right when they needed them the most.

This morning I was listening to Stephanie Miller and a caller (not a guest or anyone connected with the democrats or unions) made the comment that Kathy Nickolous was lying when she said she forgot to save the vote totals. He said that she uses Microsoft Access and that with Microsoft Access you do not have to hit "Save". It is done automatically.

He further said that with the Access system it is very easy to go into the system and change totals with no evidence that you have done so.

NIckolous has been cited several times for poor security in her operations and has refused so far to upgrade her procedures, software, or hardware.

Methinks there is something rotten in Waukesha County. :eek:

[lsbets]

As soon as I heard this, I thought something doesn't feel right here. How convenient that they suddenly found 7500 votes for Prosser right when they needed them the most.

This morning I was listening to Stephanie Miller and a caller (not a guest or anyone connected with the democrats or unions) made the comment that Kathy Nickolous was lying when she said she forgot to save the vote totals. He said that she uses Microsoft Access and that with Microsoft Access you do not have to hit "Save". It is done automatically.

He further said that with the Access system it is very easy to go into the system and change totals with no evidence that you have done so.

NIckolous has been cited several times for poor security in her operations and has refused so far to upgrade her procedures, software, or hardware.

Methinks there is something rotten in Waukesha County. :eek:

When I first read it I laughed, sounded like they ripped a page out of the Dem's playbook, but then I read on Politico this morning (on my phone, so no link) that Ramona Kitzinger, a Dem on the canvassing board was confident that the new totals were accurate. It seems that this is legit and the thugs have lost the election.

[mostpost]

When I first read it I laughed, sounded like they ripped a page out of the Dem's playbook, but then I read on Politico this morning (on my phone, so no link) that Ramona Kitzinger, a Dem on the canvassing board was confident that the new totals were accurate. It seems that this is legit and the thugs have lost the election.
I saw the Kitzinger quote. Guess we will see how it plays out.

[mostpost]

When I first read it I laughed, sounded like they ripped a page out of the Dem's playbook,

No they didn't. Democrats steal elections the old fashioned way, with Ghost voters and "vote early, vote often. This Namby pamby, new age computer fraud is a Republican invention. :lol:

[JustRalph]

This morning I was listening to Stephanie Miller and a caller (not a guest or anyone connected with the democrats or unions) made the comment that Kathy Nickolous was lying when she said she forgot to save the vote totals. He said that she uses Microsoft Access and that with Microsoft Access you do not have to hit "Save". It is done automatically.

depends on how old a version it is. it can also be disabled.

[redshift1]

An interesting turn of the screw, whoever wins is less the issue than a significant late swing among voters is.

[Tom]

Stephanie used to be on local radio here, but she went by the name of Sister Sleeze. Only the names have been changed.:lol:

[bigmack]

:lol: :lol:

mosty rollin' with the spoon fed "Access doesn't need to be saved" conspiracy.

Yeah. We'll see how it turns out.

What a scream, that news confab where she claimed victory with a 200 vote margin.

[HUSKER55]

She is contemplating a recount. go figure.

[bigmack]

An interesting turn of the screw, whoever wins is less the issue than a significant late swing among voters is.
Ya, sure, you betcha.

I don't think another R will be elected in WI ever again. Walker has sure done Dem's a favor. :rolleyes:

[Capper Al]

Strange you never mention that when the left posts crap.
Why, one might accuse YOU of the same thing you stalk Ralph for. :D

It appears to me that the right post a whole lot more than the left of their propaganda in this forum. It's kind of like the modern day version of the brown shirts beating up on those that dare to think differently.

Nothing against Ralph. He is a good handicapper. (That's what should count on this website not his politics.) I could post the propaganda message on several other threads. I just don't have the time for this non-sense.

[bigmack]

It appears to me that the right post a whole lot more than the left of their propaganda in this forum. It's kind of like the modern day version of the brown shirts beating up on those that dare to think differently.
That's about as rich as it gets. "Brown shirts" - Circa '43. :lol:

Could it be a majority of folk are on to fools not unlike yourself?

Or perhaps the minority are couragious enough to think differently, like you Capt. Marvel.

Oh, the drama!

[Tom]

#:4::3: - the poor picked on lib whine. I though hcap patented that one?

:sleeping:

[GaryG]

Our friends over at DU really have their panties in a twist over this one. Generous use of the f-word as is common with the peace and love crowd. They don't love Gov Walker or that evil vote counter too much. This is just funny as hell, especially when you remember how they were laughing anc scratching a few days ago.

[hcap]

#:4::3: - the poor picked on lib whine. I though hcap patented that one?

:sleeping:Well after being told I was a traitor, commie, anti-American coward, ant-Christ godless fool a dozen times for opposing the Iraqi War by the right wing screwballs here, that patent although not unique to only me, was granted in record time

[Tom]

I gots ta ax ya......did they make you show your BC to get it? :lol:

[hcap]

I gots ta ax ya......did they make you show your BC to get it? :lol:
I sang the International in the original Commie French while passing out union literature to the patent examiners Confessed to hating America and religious folks. Showed Atomic secrets documents I stole from the US government.

I convinced them about the accuracy of land based urban temperature records.

But to answer your question, no BC.

[Tom]

OK then, we now have a trend.....BC if you are a proven commie socialist! :lol:

[bigmack]

OK then, we now have a trend.....BC if you are a proven commie socialist! :lol:
Only comes in pink.

I always got a kick outta the handle, "pinko." :D

[BlueShoe]

I sang the International in the original Commie French.
Almost surely off key? With the words scrambled? Just as your opinions and comments posted here are? :D Oh yes, almost forgot. It is Internationale, not International. Actually, in French, it is L'Internationale. If liberals/progressives/socialists/Marxists cannot even get the title of their anthem right, what then can they get right?

[hcap]

Almost surely off key? With the words scrambled? Just as your opinions and comments posted here are? :D Oh yes, almost forgot. It is Internationale, not International. Actually, in French, it is L'Internationale. If liberals/progressives/socialists/Marxists cannot even get the title of their anthem right, what then can they get right?Damn, you got me!
Do you really expect Commies to get anything straight? Or take anything here by the righty contingent seriously?. When I do I will let you know.

[GaryG]

Wiconsin Supreme Court upholds Walker's law that will eliminate nearly all public employees from engaging in collective bargaining.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/14/wisconsins-high-court-says-controversial-union-law-can-take-effect/

[Tom]

Justice prevails......

[mostpost]

Wiconsin Supreme Court upholds Walker's law that will eliminate nearly all public employees from engaging in collective bargaining.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/14/wisconsins-high-court-says-controversial-union-law-can-take-effect/

Then it's a good thing for the Republicans that David Prosser stole that election from Joanne Kloppenberg. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[bigmack]

Then it's a good thing for the Republicans that David Prosser stole that election from Joanne Kloppenberg. :mad: :mad: :mad:
You don't really want to move into those waters do you?

Again, you lie.

The Democratic official was there to certify the 2000+ vote victory.

[Tom]

2500 votes were lost in the mail.



karma.

[mostpost]

You don't really want to move into those waters do you?

Again, you lie.

The Democratic official was there to certify the 2000+ vote victory.
No, I am expressing an opinion based on the fact that 7100 votes were found the day after the election; that the county clerk where they were found used her personal computer to store the counts, which is against the rules; that there were no safeguards against fraud.

[bigmack]

No, I am expressing an opinion based on the fact that 7100 votes were found the day after the election; that the county clerk where they were found used her personal computer to store the counts, which is against the rules; that there were no safeguards against fraud.
Tell ya what. Back-up your contention by starting a thread. I'll debate you on that issue and leave you in the same scrapheap I left hcap on GW.

[newtothegame]

Waisting your time Mack.....
Mosty totally ignores the fact of certification. Totally ignores the fact that now the highest court in Wisconsin has now held the law to be legal.....
Again, if it doesnt fit the agenda....don't go with it. Right Mosty?? lol