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View Full Version : ADW Source Fees - Help Needed


kingfin66
03-26-2011, 02:06 PM
Hello,

I am planning to write a letter to my local track management to inform them that I will no longer pay for the privilege of betting at their track and to demonstrate how much my absence will cost them (not a lot, but more than if they let me in for free). Basically, what I need help with is knowing the difference between betting on races on-track versus betting those races through Twinspires. For example, it I play a $72 pick 4 ticket on track, how much does the track make in comparison to me playing it online.

Here are the parameters (per track visit, all EmD races):

Track: EmD

Win - $80 bet (16.1% takeout)

Exacta - $60 (22.1%)

Pick 3 - $120 bet (22.1%)

Daily Double - $60 bet (22.1%)

Pick 4 - $80 (22.1%)

Total Handle - $400

So, the question is, how much does Emerald Downs lose by not having me come to the track and bet assuming that I would bet the same amount via Twinspires? Of course, this would not include any food purchased by myself or my family who often go to the track with me.

Thanks in advance for any help you all can provide.

lamboguy
03-26-2011, 02:25 PM
it all depends on how much of a rebate you get. emerald downs is a TVG track, they get a piece out of every bet made through an adw. i live in mass. and sulfolk charges bigtime source fees. when i get hit with a source fee and a tvg fee i just don't play

kingfin66
03-26-2011, 02:48 PM
Let's keep it simple and assume no rebates.

Track Collector
03-26-2011, 03:22 PM
Not sure you will get an answer here in the open forum, as this is considered pretty sensitive information.

I feel your frustration. Last time I visited EmD it was a $7 admission fee, and that was even in the early morning when simulcasts were taking place. Couple this with the fact that EmD is owned by an Indian tribe with other local casino interests. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

Robert Goren
03-26-2011, 03:52 PM
I can tell you that they don't care. The boycott of CA racing has all but put them out of business yet they won't even acknowledge it is hurting them. It is a betters be damned sport right now.

kingfin66
03-26-2011, 04:01 PM
I can tell you that they don't care. The boycott of CA racing has all but put them out of business yet they won't even acknowledge it is hurting them. It is a betters be damned sport right now.

I agree that it probably won't do any good, but I actually am known to track management even if only a little bit. It will may make me feel better to write the letter to Ron Crockett even if the only result is that he gets his cigar ashes on it.

kingfin66
03-26-2011, 04:03 PM
Not sure you will get an answer here in the open forum, as this is considered pretty sensitive information.

I feel your frustration. Last time I visited EmD it was a $7 admission fee, and that was even in the early morning when simulcasts were taking place. Couple this with the fact that EmD is owned by an Indian tribe with other local casino interests. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

They also charge $3 on dark days when all there is to bet is simulcast races. It is truly ridiculous yet people, myself included, have been paying the price. Not any more.

Charli125
03-26-2011, 04:37 PM
I agree that it probably won't do any good, but I actually am known to track management even if only a little bit. It will may make me feel better to write the letter to Ron Crockett even if the only result is that he gets his cigar ashes on it.

Good for you. If more players would let their feelings be known to track management they might listen.

Unfortunately, Mr. Crockett isn't much for listening to his customers. He responded to my email by calling and yelling at me. Great guy.

Tom
03-26-2011, 05:06 PM
Good for you. If more players would let their feelings be known to track management they might listen.

Unfortunately, Mr. Crockett isn't much for listening to his customers. He responded to my email by calling and yelling at me. Great guy.

Maybe people in the internet will see this and deluge the dope with emails and hone messages.

startngate
03-26-2011, 06:16 PM
It's hard to calculate exactly what that amount would be, because there are so many variables that are factored in. Based on the stated wagering and takeouts the OP listed above:

Host Track Revenue for wagers made On Track = $83.60

Host Track Revenue for wagers made Off Track (varies by host fee of guest site)

(3% host fee) = $12.00; net loss of revenue = $71.60
(4% host fee) = $16.00; net loss of revenue = $67.60
(5% host fee) = $20.00; net loss of revenue = $63.60
(6% host fee) = $24.00; net loss of revenue = $59.60

Other variables:

If the off track location pays a source market fee to the Host Track, and where the customer lives puts them in the source market, then the net revenue loss would be reduced by that amount.

If a customer stays at home to play, as the OP mentioned, the Host Track also loses any admission, parking, program/DRF, and concessions revenue the customer would have generated while they were on site.

The Host Track would actually gain revenue if the customer would play more often from home than they would if they had to physically go to the track.

The rebate (or lack thereof) that a customer gets is of no consequence to the Host Track's revenue, unless it makes them bet more than they would otherwise. Rebates come from the guest site's share of the revenue.

kingfin66
03-26-2011, 08:35 PM
Good for you. If more players would let their feelings be known to track management they might listen.

Unfortunately, Mr. Crockett isn't much for listening to his customers. He responded to my email by calling and yelling at me. Great guy.

That's right, I remember I was going to call you to get the low down on that and then I totally forgot. It's interesting that it's Crockett that called. I would have guessed Hodge would play the villian for Crockett.

kingfin66
03-26-2011, 08:38 PM
Maybe people in the internet will see this and deluge the dope with emails and hone messages.

Tom,

I'm just going to keep the letter on point and use the information that others have generously provided me with in this thread and via PM (thanks...you know who you are!). There is absolutely no emotion in it for me. It is truly their loss. As the numbers show, we aren't talking huge money from me, but they need every last on track patron they can get.

Best,
kf66