Santa Anita's troubles are many but who is to blame?

[andymays]

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_17694253

Excerpt:


For starters, the major players weren't happy with an increase in takeout on exotic bets that went into effect this year in California and have waged a boycott of the state's tracks.

According to sources who prefer to remain anonymous because they are not authorized to speak on the subject, Santa Anita officials knew early on in the meet they were in trouble and tried to add a low-takeout exotic bet to their wagering menu, only to be rebuffed by the Thoroughbred Owners of California and the California Horse Racing Board.

Haines said he couldn't comment on the subject, but others aren't so reluctant.

"I hope someone makes it clear that the biggest reason for drop in handle is because of bad publicity and most of the blame for the bad publicity belongs with the chairman (Keith Brackpool) and vice chairman (David Israel) of the CHRB," said Andy Asaro, a longtime California horseplayer who has attended several industry meetings with Horseplayers Association of North America president Jeff Platt and the organization's California representative, Roger Way. "I also understand that the TOC is there to protect the interests of the owners, but I believe that it has reached a point where they are doing so at the expense of the tracks and the customers who want to wager on California racing.

"In my personal opinion, the TOC and the CHRB are preventing the tracks from competing for customers by not allowing them to make adjustments to the wagering menu and the takeout rates. The public needs to know that Santa Anita doesn't have total control of their wagering menu or the takeout rates and I believe that George Haines and (Santa Anita marketing director) Allen Gutterman have done the best they could under the circumstances. In my opinion, the CHRB leadership has failed California racing."


Read more: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_17694253#ixzz1Hc31aHIm

[Robert Goren]

I will come right out say it. All of CA problems can placed at the feet of the horsemen. It was them that shoved the takeout rate hike down the throats of the tracks. It is them that is refusing to enter their horses. Their greed is killing the sport.

[David-LV]

I will come right out say it. All of CA problems can placed at the feet of the horsemen. It was them that shoved the takeout rate hike down the throats of the tracks. It is them that is refusing to enter their horses. Their greed is killing the sport.

Robert,

THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! JUST SO BITTER!!!

MR. NEGATIVITY, THINK POSITIVE YOU MAY HAVE A MUCH BETTER DAY AND PICK A FEW WINNERS.

THERE MUST BE A FEW GOOD HORSEMEN OUT THERE SOMEWHERE.

_______
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

David, exactly what is postive about racing in CA?

[pondman]

I will come right out say it. All of CA problems can placed at the feet of the horsemen. It was them that shoved the takeout rate hike down the throats of the tracks. It is them that is refusing to enter their horses. Their greed is killing the sport.

The majority of horsemen aren't making any money...they're on the edge of the abyss

Blame Former Governor Arnold Schwartzenegger (he's gone back to bad acting) and existing State Pension plans. The coffers are empty...just wait until they've shut down 500 post office in California...then nobody will be at the track.

[Dave Schwartz]

And the majority of horse players are simply donating their read-ends off without a fair shake.

See, much of the problem lies in the fact that the horsemen have determined that they have to get theirs at the expense of everyone else. That just is not going to work.

Track owners all over the country are in this position. The horsemen are in the driver's seat. Consider Monmouth Park - the great experiment that was hailed as such a success. As I understand it, the track lost like $4m but the horsemen loved it because they got paid.

This attitude that says "they'll just have to figure something out because I have to get paid" will put them all out of business.


Just my opinion.

Dave Schwartz

[toussaud]

let me get this straight

the track, that pays employees, that pays the purses for races, that maintains the track, that pays for marketing, that takes on all this responsbiltiy, can't even control how they price their project. That's about the most backwards thin I have ever seen

[turfnsport]

I blame Andy.

[andymays]

I blame Andy.

:lol: You aren't the only one. :D

You wouldn't believe what's going on this morning. I stand by my quotes in the article.

Hopefully Mr. Brackpool will give an interview soon and answer.

[gm10]

:lol: You aren't the only one. :D

You wouldn't believe what's going on this morning. I stand by my quotes in the article.

Hopefully Mr. Brackpool will give an interview soon and answer.

I didn't want to say it but now that it's on the table ... I blame you too.

I was just talking to an employee at Lingfield Park and he told me that it cost around 6 million dollars to install their synthetic surface (which is safe and consistent btw). How much did they pay for the new dirt @ SA?

[andymays]

I didn't want to say it but now that it's on the table ... I blame you too.

I was just talking to an employee at Lingfield Park and he told me that it cost around 6 million dollars to install their synthetic surface (which is safe and consistent btw). How much did they pay for the new dirt @ SA?

He was referring to something else and pulling my leg.

I'm not happy with the new surface either. I don't know how they could screw it up but they did. It is my understanding that the Trainers wanted a different dirt surface than the one that was installed but they went with the MID guy from Florida.

[FenceBored]

I didn't want to say it but now that it's on the table ... I blame you too.

I was just talking to an employee at Lingfield Park and he told me that it cost around 6 million dollars to install their synthetic surface (which is safe and consistent btw). How much did they pay for the new dirt @ SA?

Why are you seeking a return to the past? We're all about progress here.

[castaway01]

And the majority of horse players are simply donating their read-ends off without a fair shake.

See, much of the problem lies in the fact that the horsemen have determined that they have to get theirs at the expense of everyone else. That just is not going to work.

Track owners all over the country are in this position. The horsemen are in the driver's seat. Consider Monmouth Park - the great experiment that was hailed as such a success. As I understand it, the track lost like $4m but the horsemen loved it because they got paid.

This attitude that says "they'll just have to figure something out because I have to get paid" will put them all out of business.


Just my opinion.

Dave Schwartz

I agree with the second paragraph, but for the third, I'll just say, don't become "Robert Goren" and get sucked into politicians' bookkeepking. In any state, of course, but most of all in NJ. They say what they want to get what they want.

[Stillriledup]

Name suggestion for Blame's first foal?

Blame Andy.

;)

[andymays]

Name suggestion for Blame's first foal?

Blame Andy.

;)

You have no idea. :lol:

I would be honored. :ThmbUp:

[gm10]

He was referring to something else and pulling my leg.

I'm not happy with the new surface either. I don't know how they could screw it up but they did. It is my understanding that the Trainers wanted a different dirt surface than the one that was installed but they went with the MID guy from Florida.

What are the fans'/trainers' feeling about the surface?

[toussaud]

I have no problem with the surface.

[andymays]

What are the fans'/trainers' feeling about the surface?

The carryover rate is nothing compared to the last two meets. The people who like dirt like it better than pro ride. The people who liked pro ride don't like the dirt. When Monmouth installed a new surface last year they didn't have too many problems but out here everything turns into a problem.

[jelly]

Santa Anita handle down 35% today.biggest percentage drop yet.


Last year $6,261,730 att.5764

today $4,085,059 att.4212



CHRB and the TOC must be happy.

[toussaud]

off the turf races will kill handle.

[Stillriledup]

Santa Anita handle down 35% today.biggest percentage drop yet.


Last year $6,261,730 att.5764

today $4,085,059 att.4212



CHRB and the TOC must be happy.
CHRB Commissioner David Israel (aka Jeff Daniels):
Quote:
“People often say we are competing with the casinos. I think that’s shortsighted and wrong. We’re not competing with casinos. We’re in the entertainment business. We’re competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers and we’re putting on a show..."


CHRB Commissioner Keith Brackpool (aka Jim Carrey):
Quote:
"We offer in California the premier racing product on a year-round basis,” he said, “but we were offering our first-class product at a discount price. We’re changing the pricing model. We left win-place-show where it is. But we came up with a solution that will produce $30 million more a year. That’s a 25-to-30% increase in overnight purses."

[jelly]

CHRB Commissioner David Israel (aka Jeff Daniels):
Quote:
“People often say we are competing with the casinos. I think that’s shortsighted and wrong. We’re not competing with casinos. We’re in the entertainment business. We’re competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers and we’re putting on a show..."


CHRB Commissioner Keith Brackpool (aka Jim Carrey):
Quote:
"We offer in California the premier racing product on a year-round basis,” he said, “but we were offering our first-class product at a discount price. We’re changing the pricing model. We left win-place-show where it is. But we came up with a solution that will produce $30 million more a year. That’s a 25-to-30% increase in overnight purses."



These comments really are amazing.

[Dave Schwartz]

CHRB Commissioner David Israel (aka Jeff Daniels):
Quote:
“People often say we are competing with the casinos. I think that’s shortsighted and wrong. We’re not competing with casinos. We’re in the entertainment business. We’re competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers and we’re putting on a show..."

And herein lies the problem: Israel does not know who the competition is!

Entertainment dollars equals admission and hot dogs. When was the last time you made a bet AT a MLB game? This approach would never support racing. Heck, the only reason sports is thriving is because of TV contract.

With this captain at the helm the CA racing ship will surely run aground.

CHRB Commissioner Keith Brackpool (aka Jim Carrey):
Quote:
"We offer in California the premier racing product on a year-round basis,” he said, “but we were offering our first-class product at a discount price. We’re changing the pricing model. We left win-place-show where it is. But we came up with a solution that will produce $30 million more a year. That’s a 25-to-30% increase in overnight purses."

Well, your "premier racing product" apparently does not come with enough horses to fill a card once or twice a week.

Wake up, California! These are your FANS screaming at you. We're the ones that WANT YOU TO SUCCEED but you've got to help us help you!



Dave Schwartz

[JustRalph]

The CHRB is deaf and

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Mice.png

[JohnGalt1]

I would like to comment on one of the solutions(?) mentioned in the article concerning a low takeout rate on a new possible exotic (pick 5) at Del Mar and Hollywood.

Even if they offer a reduced take out of 14%, I still would not play, since I might also want to play the pick 3's and trifectas in those races.

[andymays]

I would like to comment on one of the solutions(?) mentioned in the article concerning a low takeout rate on a new possible exotic (pick 5) at Del Mar and Hollywood.

Even if they offer a reduced take out of 14%, I still would not play, since I might also want to play the pick 3's and trifectas in those races.

Then you have to say the same thing about Gulfstream and Monmouth right?

[redeye007]

the fields are getting smaller and smaller. Is SA on it's last leg? Indian gaming has certainly impacted the racing industry. it's a pity the governor of california gave the indians a monopoly on slots. the tracks could certainly use the help their added revenue would bring. will hollywood park be just as bad with the short fields. apparently no one is protecting the racing industry in california.

[toussaud]

the fields are getting smaller and smaller. Is SA on it's last leg? Indian gaming has certainly impacted the racing industry. it's a pity the governor of california gave the indians a monopoly on slots. the tracks could certainly use the help their added revenue would bring. will hollywood park be just as bad with the short fields. apparently no one is protecting the racing industry in california.
no one owes the racing industry anything. they need to become more innovative.

[Southieboy]

If CA ever offered a P5 at a low take, it would completely destroy the P6.

[andymays]

If CA ever offered a P5 at a low take, it would completely destroy the P6.

It's going to start in the first race.

[jelly]

I would like to comment on one of the solutions(?) mentioned in the article concerning a low takeout rate on a new possible exotic (pick 5) at Del Mar and Hollywood.

Even if they offer a reduced take out of 14%, I still would not play, since I might also want to play the pick 3's and trifectas in those races.



Won't get my money until they rescind the takeout.

[andymays]

Won't get my money until they rescind the takeout.
There is a tremendous amount of pressure on them to change things. It is possible that they will rescind it. I'm pretty sure we'll see some changes in the near future.

[toussaud]

If CA ever offered a P5 at a low take, it would completely destroy the P6.
I just told someone a afew hours ago, the rainbow pick 6, is going to be the straw that kills southern californias back. It's a GREAT wager.


There is a tremendous amount of pressure on them to change things. It is possible that they will rescind it. I'm pretty sure we'll see some changes in the near future. If I had to guess by del mar, heads will be rolled and amends made, or attempted to be made to bettors.

[Robert Goren]

Those things don't do that much handle. Add up all the exacta pools for a card and compare it to one of those pools. Those things are like a sprig of parsley to plate containing an overdone steak and saying "there you go it, I made things right now."

[backinzona]

It's going to start in the first race.

The Ca racing leaders are hoping an early pick five with low takeout will appease the fans and boycotters. We'll see. I'm not sure that is enough to do it. The pick five is the smallest pool bet in Ca so the low takeout just on that bet hurts racing the least.

To rescind the takeout increase, and therefore the purse increase, back to 2010 levels would reduce the horse population further causing Ca racing to go to 2 or 3 day race weeks. That may be where they are headed anyway, but bringing purses back to 2010 levels would bring the reduced race day week much more quickly as quite a few horses would just leave for other racing venues.

[andymays]

The Ca racing leaders are hoping an early pick five with low takeout will appease the fans and boycotters. We'll see. I'm not sure that is enough to do it. The pick five is the smallest pool bet in Ca so the low takeout just on that bet hurts racing the least.

To rescind the takeout increase, and therefore the purse increase, back to 2010 levels would reduce the horse population further causing Ca racing to go to 2 or 3 day race weeks. That may be where they are headed anyway, but bringing purses back to 2010 levels would bring the reduced race day week much more quickly as quite a few horses would just leave for other racing venues.
They know that one low takeout wager won't appease most Horseplayers but it's a good start. I know I'm all for it. They need to do a few other things as well.

[Stillriledup]

The Ca racing leaders are hoping an early pick five with low takeout will appease the fans and boycotters. We'll see. I'm not sure that is enough to do it. The pick five is the smallest pool bet in Ca so the low takeout just on that bet hurts racing the least.

To rescind the takeout increase, and therefore the purse increase, back to 2010 levels would reduce the horse population further causing Ca racing to go to 2 or 3 day race weeks. That may be where they are headed anyway, but bringing purses back to 2010 levels would bring the reduced race day week much more quickly as quite a few horses would just leave for other racing venues.

Hopefully its a 1 dollar pick 5 and not a 50 cent pick 5. The fields are so short out there that to make a bet like that 50 cents is not going to really accomplish much, not to mention there's less chance of a carryover. The key to this bet is the carryover, if it doesnt carry too often, its not going to grab the players attention as much.

[andymays]

Hopefully its a 1 dollar pick 5 and not a 50 cent pick 5. The fields are so short out there that to make a bet like that 50 cents is not going to really accomplish much, not to mention there's less chance of a carryover. The key to this bet is the carryover, if it doesnt carry too often, its not going to grab the players attention as much.

It's going to be 50 cents. The short fields are why it's going to be a early pick 5 instead of a early pick 4. That is if it goes through which is about 50/50. Maybe they will make it a pick 4. I'm not sure.

[Stillriledup]

It's going to be 50 cents. The short fields are why it's going to be a early pick 5 instead of a early pick 4. That is if it goes through which is about 50/50. Maybe they will make it a pick 4. I'm not sure.

Oh, ok, so its going to replace the pick 4, gotcha. I was thinking it might be just a bet added to the menu.

I like it.

[Dave Schwartz]

IMHO, this is equivalent to a sports team raising ticket prices through the roof and trying to appease the fans by reducing the size of a beer by 50% and dropping the price by half.

It appears that they will do anything but address the real problems.

[toussaud]

they will be running 3 day meets by next year that's my prediction. Then and only then will they start to see some type of positive impact, before anyone can make any money or do anything, got to get rid of the small fields. I predict they will rotate days with golden gate basically

[macguy]

they will be running 3 day meets by next year that's my prediction. Then and only then will they start to see some type of positive impact, before anyone can make any money or do anything, got to get rid of the small fields. I predict they will rotate days with golden gate basically

Or maybe they will do what they used to in Ohio with the 7 and 7 deal.

GG and whatever Southern California track is running will have a 5 and 5. :rolleyes:

[backinzona]

I agree with Mr. Schwartz. They are rearranging the chairs on the deck and trying to spin it to appease the boycotters.

[cj]

IMHO, this is equivalent to a sports team raising ticket prices through the roof and trying to appease the fans by reducing the size of a beer by 50% and dropping the price by half.

It appears that they will do anything but address the real problems.

I agree. Who gives a shit if they have a 50 cent P4 or P5? The racing still stinks.

[andymays]

I agree. Who gives a shit if they have a 50 cent P4 or P5? The racing still stinks.
It really is almost over. Even if everyone stops fighting and pulls together (Tracks, TOC, CHRB, and Horseplayers) California may not make it.

[toussaud]

Or maybe they will do what they used to in Ohio with the 7 and 7 deal.

GG and whatever Southern California track is running will have a 5 and 5. :rolleyes:
In reality, they do the 7 and 7 in all but name now. The races are spaced perfectly 11-12 minutes apart from Golden Gate at 2:45pm CST unitl the last at santa anita. Only thing is that it doesn't show up in the menu like that or anything but you can play all 16 races without any problem. About the only damn thing they do right.

[backinzona]

they will be running 3 day meets by next year that's my prediction. Then and only then will they start to see some type of positive impact, before anyone can make any money or do anything, got to get rid of the small fields. I predict they will rotate days with golden gate basically

They will be doing this--running 3 day meets--with or without the takeout hike/boycott. Cal breds provide 40% of the starters in SoCal and 60% of the starters in NoCal and the numbers of mares bred in the state has drastically declined in 2008, 2009, and 2010. So the pipeline of horses has dropped for racing in 2011, 2012, and 2013. We are just seeing now, but it will get much worse in the next couple of years.

[toussaud]

They will be doing this--running 3 day meets--with or without the takeout hike/boycott. Cal breds provide 40% of the starters in SoCal and 60% of the starters in NoCal and the numbers of mares bred in the state has drastically declined in 2008, 2009, and 2010. So the pipeline of horses has dropped for racing in 2011, 2012, and 2013. We are just seeing now, but it will get much worse in the next couple of years.
Good post. did not even think about this. Quite depressing.

[jelly]

It really is almost over. Even if everyone stops fighting and pulls together (Tracks, TOC, CHRB, and Horseplayers) California may not make it.



They better do it soon Andy.

SA handle.

Last year $10,312,081

Today $6,931,717

- $3,380,364

[andymays]

They better do it soon Andy.

SA handle.

Last year $10,312,081

Today $6,931,717

- $3,380,364

We will see changes for the Hollywood meet and even more for the Del Mar meet in my opinion. On the Roger Stein show today he said that the TOC is history and another group is ready to take them over. Listen to the last 20 minutes of the show.

Saturday 03/26/2011(WMA)

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

[toussaud]

They better do it soon Andy.

SA handle.

Last year $10,312,081

Today $6,931,717

- $3,380,364
that hurt

[ronsmac]

We will see changes for the Hollywood meet and even more for the Del Mar meet in my opinion. On the Roger Stein show today he said that the TOC is history and another group is ready to take them over. Listen to the last 20 minutes of the show.

Saturday 03/26/2011(WMA)

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp
The frightening number is the out of state wagering was down more than 50% from last yr same day. That's the number that really shows national interest in their product. It may be their least profitable, but in my opinion the most significant.

[drib]

It is nice to see articles that go beyond spinning in an attempt to sketch the decline in business at Santa Anita. I would add that more important than the actual total numbers from meet opening is the trend of business, and, at Santa Anita, handle has been plunging. The last few weeks has seen drops of 20%, then 25%, now this week, we are over 30% in decline. I am all in favor of the boycott, but, make no mistake, this accelerating decline is the "Yonkers Effect" that I described a couple of months ago. The track's best customers are getting destroyed by plunging pool size.

[statepierback]

I was on track for Free Friday. The problem was the races at Santa Anita were unplayable. Plus boring.

[owlet]

Mitchell, Sadler, Baffert, John Harris? They think they're fascinating. They really do.

[BlueShoe]

"Gentlemen, we must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately"
Benjamin Franklin 1776.

[andymays]

Santa Anita back to 4 day racing. Will announce later today according to the Roger Stein show.

[Deepsix]

I was thinking, just the other day, since the SA boycott has really driven home the point (takeout too high) and it appears that victory in some form has been acheived by the Players, maybe the players out to now shift their focus to the 'other' jurisdictions with even highter takeout than Calif./SA.

Lets not let the solid momentum be lost.

[Southieboy]

Due to a limited supply of horses and a lack of support by the horsemen, Santa Anita Park will return to a four-day race week beginning this Thursday, March 31, and will operate on a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the remainder of its winter/spring meeting which concludes on April 17.
http://www.santaanita.com/press/pressrelease/2011/03/santa-anita-returns-four-day-race-week-horse-inventory-key-factor

[toussaud]

Due to a limited supply of horses and a lack of support by the horsemen, Santa Anita Park will return to a four-day race week beginning this Thursday, March 31, and will operate on a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the remainder of its winter/spring meeting which concludes on April 17.
http://www.santaanita.com/press/pressrelease/2011/03/santa-anita-returns-four-day-race-week-horse-inventory-key-factor
sounds like a backhanded slap to the face to me. They are turning on themselves

[Charli125]

sounds like a backhanded slap to the face to me. They are turning on themselves

It's just a way to cut purses without having to announce a purse cut. It'll help their handle/day, and will keep their field size from getting even worse. I see why they would make this decision.

Unfortunately it's just another band-aid attempting to cover up the abysmal season they're having.

[toussaud]

It's just a way to cut purses without having to announce a purse cut. It'll help their handle/day, and will keep their field size from getting even worse. I see why they would make this decision.

Unfortunately it's just another band-aid attempting to cover up the abysmal season they're having.
did not even think about that. that's a full day's worth of purses you no longer have to pay

They could at least throw them a bone and make everyday a 9 race card.

[Robert Goren]

One day less of unbettable races.

[Southieboy]

One day less of unbettable races.
You mean like this (http://equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=ONSC-SA-20110331D) Thursday?

[jamey1977]

I already added Golden Gate And New York- I will add probably add 2 more circuits within the next 3 years, maybe 3 more. They can cancel the whole thing. We don't need em

[Southieboy]

It will be interesting to see if Del Mar can maintain five days of racing as they did the last 2 years.

[toussaud]

It will be interesting to see if Del Mar can maintain five days of racing as they did the last 2 years.
del mar won't have a problem whatsoever doing 5 days a week. They could probably even swing 6 if they wanted though it would not be in their best interest to do so. Del mar is the 2 ish months a year where all of socals racing problems go away in the ocean. Everyone wants to run at del mar, and they make money there.

[ronsmac]

It will be interesting to see if Del Mar can maintain five days of racing as they did the last 2 years.
I'd say probably not, their cards have gotten progressively worse the last few yrs , even going to 5 days from 6. It's gonna be a bad meet this yr.

[BlueShoe]

After just one Wednesday, SA quickly reverting to 4 days is certainly no surprise. Several of us questioned how they could possibly fill cards 5 days when short fields were the norm racing 4 days. Kind of like we told you so. With Hollypark going 4 days, have heard some rumblings that they may be considering racing nights on Thursday as well as Fridays, although their website still says days.

[toussaud]

After just one Wednesday, SA quickly reverting to 4 days is certainly no surprise. Several of us questioned how they could possibly fill cards 5 days when short fields were the norm racing 4 days. Kind of like we told you so. With Hollypark going 4 days, have heard some rumblings that they may be considering racing nights on Thursday as well as Fridays, although their website still says days.
hollywood park is going to be brutul.

the fact that they are considering racing on thursday nights shows they have no clue. not at the same time as they run at on friday nights at least. we have already proven that doesn't work for ovbious reasons.

[JohnGalt1]

It will be interesting to see if Del Mar can maintain five days of racing as they did the last 2 years.

If the boycot is still going on-- no.

If the take out rates are lowered to the pre-stupid-decision rates-- probably yes.

[Southieboy]

It looks like Del Mar is already cutting back. 9 race cards on nearly all weekends.
http://www.dmtc.com/season/events/