Jalen Rose - Uncle Tom comment

[kid4rilla]

In the "Fab Five" special on ESPN, Jalen Rose said that he hated Duke because he thought they would never recruit "players like us". Duke only recruited black players that were "Uncle Toms".

Google's definition:

Uncle Tom is a pejorative term for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to white authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation.

I think it is useless to try to correct Jalen Rose about what he feels. He used a common term for convenience and if held down on it I don't think he would say he meant that the black players for Duke were overly subservient.

He feels, like most people in this country, that black basketball players are better players than white players.

I appreciate his honesty. Most people I know think generally the same thing about Duke. They are the choir boys with token white players.

On the flip side of that, do you think that any white kids growing up playing basketball in Washington D.C. ever thought John Thompson was going to come calling?

None of this is as earth shattering as the media makes it appear.

[cj]

In the "Fab Five" special on ESPN, Jalen Rose said that he hated Duke because he thought they would never recruit "players like us". Duke only recruited black players that were "Uncle Toms".

Google's definition:

Uncle Tom is a pejorative term for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to white authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation.

I think it is useless to try to correct Jalen Rose about what he feels. He used a common term for convenience and if held down on it I don't think he would say he meant that the black players for Duke were overly subservient.

He feels, like most people in this country, that black basketball players are better players than white players.

I appreciate his honesty. Most people I know think generally the same thing about Duke. They are the choir boys with token white players.

On the flip side of that, do you think that any white kids growing up playing basketball in Washington D.C. ever thought John Thompson was going to come calling?

None of this is as earth shattering as the media makes it appear.

Personally, I think Rose was talking about how he felt back then, as a young kid, not how he feels now. Again, that is just how I took it. Others may not agree.

As far as John Thompson, I do know he didn't even bother to send a letter to Danny Ferry, the hottest recruit in the country that lived in his backyard. Was he being racist, realistic, or just trying to right what he perceived as injustice? You'd have to ask him.

[kid4rilla]

Personally, I think Rose was talking about how he felt back then, as a young kid, not how he feels now. Again, that is just how I took it. Others may not agree.

As far as John Thompson, I do know he didn't even bother to send a letter to Danny Ferry, the hottest recruit in the country that lived in his backyard. Was he being racist, realistic, or just trying to right what he perceived as injustice? You'd have to ask him.

He said then, but I'm sure he still feels that way. Most folks do. Right or wrong is up for debate.

If Danny Ferry had a documentary, and mentioned he hated Georgetown because he thought "they didn't recruit kids like me" he might get all kinds of bad labels.

Doesn't mean that it wasn't true

[sonnyp]

john thompson found it appropriate to grant a basketball scholarship to a white kid named gaughn who was a marginal player at bishop gorman in las vegas.

ooooh that kid's father is john gaughn the casino magnate and thompson was looking to get liscensed to operate a gaming operation in nevada which gaughn could be influential in obtaining. i forgot.

[cj]

He said then, but I'm sure he still feels that way. Most folks do. Right or wrong is up for debate.

If Danny Ferry had a documentary, and mentioned he hated Georgetown because he thought "they didn't recruit kids like me" he might get all kinds of bad labels.

Doesn't mean that it wasn't true

Don't you think he might have changed? I hope I've changed a lot from my teens until now. He grew up in a bad neighborhood and probably had very little dealings with Caucasians. Since, he is on major networks as an analyst. I imagine his attitudes have changed now that he can look at life from a much broader perspective.

[sonnyp]

Don't you think he might have changed? I hope I've changed a lot from my teens until now. He grew up in a bad neighborhood and probably had very little dealings with Caucasians. Since, he is on major networks as an analyst. I imagine his attitudes have changed now that he can look at life from a much broader perspective.

you are kidding right ? do you think racism is pointed only in one direction ? "white men can't jump" that's o.k. miss black america, that's o.k.

try "black men can't think" or" miss white america", see what happens.

[Robert Goren]

you are kidding right ? do you think racism is pointed only in one direction ? "white men can't jump" that's o.k. miss black america, that's o.k.

try "black men can't think" or" miss white america", see what happens.There is a Miss Black America because for many years Miss America was really Miss White America. It may be not true today, but for many years sadly it was.

[sonnyp]

you made my point. two wrongs don't make a right

[Relwob Owner]

Don't you think he might have changed? I hope I've changed a lot from my teens until now. He grew up in a bad neighborhood and probably had very little dealings with Caucasians. Since, he is on major networks as an analyst. I imagine his attitudes have changed now that he can look at life from a much broader perspective.


Right, but do you go around repeating all of the things you thought when you were a teen before you changed? Probably not....My biggest issue with him saying this is that even if it was what he thought years ago and not what he thinks now, what is the point or motivation for him to say it now? Common sense seems to dictate just saying nothing IMO.

[sonnyp]

im sure "the boys from the hood" are waiting with open arms for jimmer fridette in the NBA

[cj]

you are kidding right ? do you think racism is pointed only in one direction ? "white men can't jump" that's o.k. miss black america, that's o.k.

try "black men can't think" or" miss white america", see what happens.

I read my post again just to be sure, but I have no idea how you jumped to that conclusion from my post. Your last post helped clear things up for me a little though. I understand much better now.

[cj]

Right, but do you go around repeating all of the things you thought when you were a teen before you changed? Probably not....My biggest issue with him saying this is that even if it was what he thought years ago and not what he thinks now, what is the point or motivation for him to say it now? Common sense seems to dictate just saying nothing IMO.

I'm not afraid to tell people what I thought when I was younger, or how I acted. It was a documentary. He was just being honest. I don't see anything wrong with it.

If he still holds those views, I would have a problem with it. But I don't think he does. Again, that is just my opinion.

[CBedo]

I just watched the documentary, and my impression was that his comments were related to his emotional motivation and hating Duke. I don't think he believes that now. He said that Grant Hill just represented the opposite of himself. Rose grew up without his father in his life (a professional basketball player), and was a public school boy.

He also said he thought Laetner was a "soft bitch" until he actually played against him and changed his mindset that the guy could play.

[melman]

Can we have this thread deleted? Or locked?

[sonnyp]

Can we have this thread deleted? Or locked?

why? too real for you ? you must be running for office.

[Relwob Owner]

I'm not afraid to tell people what I thought when I was younger, or how I acted. It was a documentary. He was just being honest. I don't see anything wrong with it.

If he still holds those views, I would have a problem with it. But I don't think he does. Again, that is just my opinion.

Fair points....it is a tough one. I always respect honesty but I think it is sometimes best to leave things unsaid in certain situations.

As far as him still holding those views, it is hard for me to to have an opinion because no one really knows that except Jalen himself.

[melman]

Not running for any office Sonny. :) As a matter of fact I very much support your comments. But this type of thread leads to trouble. The "I'm a better guy than you are" type trouble.

[sonnyp]

Not running for any office Sonny. :) As a matter of fact I very much support your comments. But this type of thread leads to trouble. The "I'm a better guy than you are" type trouble.

it's a public forum. i can understand you choosing not to read a particular thread for your own reasons, but why would you request it to be censored if you are a participant like everyone else.

i think the posts are accurate about race in sports. in fact, i think whites are on the endangered species in pro sports.

[Relwob Owner]

Not running for any office Sonny. :) As a matter of fact I very much support your comments. But this type of thread leads to trouble. The "I'm a better guy than you are" type trouble.


I agree it could lead to trouble but think that all of the comments have been strong so far......a touchy, but very interesting topic IMO

[melman]

Maybe you are right sonny. I'll just stop reading this thread. Self censorship can be the best thing at times.

[sonnyp]

no offense intended.

[Rookies]

I just watched the documentary, and my impression was that his comments were related to his emotional motivation and hating Duke. I don't think he believes that now. He said that Grant Hill just represented the opposite of himself. Rose grew up without his father in his life (a professional basketball player), and was a public school boy.

He also said he thought Laetner was a "soft bitch" until he actually played against him and changed his mindset that the guy could play.

I think the translation here is that this was a social class thing with Rose. Hill had two upper middle income parents and Rose resented that. The fact that people like Hill got the scholarships to the Pukeies- the total incarnation of Prep U- ragged Hill. IMHO, he used the Uncle Tom terminology to differentiate hood blacks from upper mobile ones.

I also saw a comment that asked Rose why the Fab 5 didn't make a statement by signing on to a black college and putting them on the map. Rose, Uncle Tom-ed himself, by saying that he wasn't mature enough, that he-they needed a much bigger market, a Much Music- an ESPN to make their statement.

[kid4rilla]

Don't you think he might have changed? I hope I've changed a lot from my teens until now. He grew up in a bad neighborhood and probably had very little dealings with Caucasians. Since, he is on major networks as an analyst. I imagine his attitudes have changed now that he can look at life from a much broader perspective.

Sure, it might have changed, (he is a multi-millionaire...that kind of money can make ignorant people surprisingly tolerant, very quickly).

I'm not judging him. Again, I appreciate his honesty because it gets close to illustrating the real feelings that real people have. Because Jalen Rose came up in the Detroit streets, he probably had few interactions with whites - especially with whites who could challenge him on the basketball court. Why wouldn't he think that Duke was a bunch of "bitches"? It is probably all he has seen up to that point, so what is wrong with that kind of prejudice? He also then indicated that he quickly found out his predudice was wrong, so he had to adjust his view.

My point is that both blacks and whites "generally" think that blacks are superior to whites on the basketball court. Would you not agree? The prejudices are there, he acknowledged them, and he shouldn't be beat up for it. Jalen Rose is real....he shows it as an analyst also as he is never the guy that will give the party line.

[kid4rilla]

I think the translation here is that this was a social class thing with Rose. Hill had two upper middle income parents and Rose resented that. The fact that people like Hill got the scholarships to the Pukeies- the total incarnation of Prep U- ragged Hill. IMHO, he used the Uncle Tom terminology to differentiate hood blacks from upper mobile ones.

Nah, it is a white/black issue. People like Hill also got scholarships to many other colleges too. People like Rose got scholarships to some Prep U's. Duke was very prominant and very white, so they get the lions share of the ire.

Instead of trying to make it sound sweeter, we should embrace the fact that it existed and still exists. If I came up like he did, I'd probably have felt the same way.

[Striker]

What is ironic here is that Duke offered and was in Webber's top 5 choices of schools during his recruiting process as the nation's top high school player.

[PhantomOnTour]

I don't think Jalen Rose harbors any racial animosity towards Duke. He may have felt that way at one time as a youngster, but that mindset also may have been motivation for himself. I am a fan of Jalen and like his insight on ESPN.
Demonize your opponent-give yourself a reason to hate them-a reason to get up for the game.

I see the same type of player at Duke as Bob Knight (coach K's former coach) had at Indiana...superb college players but not many NBA stars. Coach K appears to me to be a kinder, gentler Bobby Knight.

[Hank]

As a black guy I can tell you Rose was way out of line for saying that.His choice of words was unfortunate and reflective of his youth and upbringing.My guess is what he was getting at is the fact that some inner city kids view middle-upper-middle class minority kids that are preppy types as sellouts because of their efforts to fully assimilate into the dominate Eurocentric culture.

[Wiley]

Some interesting points on Rose's comments. I'll throw one more out, my take. I think part of what he means from a players vantage point is 'coachability'.

The Michigan boys ran the show for that team, Fischer threw the ball up and let them play, they were undisciplined and let their talent take them as far as it could.
At Duke Coach K was/is in control and they play a very structured game, controlled by K, something most of the Fab 5 could not or at least would not have handled well.

I have played basketball for over 40 years and from my experience most players only care about how good someone plays not what ethnicity they are. Yes there are preconceived notions about who might be better based on many things, one being race, but once the ball is put in play and you can see how someone plays it all goes out the window, similar I think to Rose's notion initially on Lattener before he played him.

I think Rose has grown up a lot over the years and think he is a smart guy and like him as an analyst but can say I did not really care for the Fab 5's brand of hoop, but I also respected those players individual talents on the court.

[Canarsie]

Some interesting points on Rose's comments. I'll throw one more out, my take. I think part of what he means from a players vantage point is 'coachability'.

I have played basketball for over 40 years and from my experience most players only care about how good someone plays not what ethnicity they are. Yes there are preconceived notions about who might be better based on many things, one being race, but once the ball is put in play and you can see how someone plays it all goes out the window, similar I think to Rose's notion initially on Lattener before he played him.



This is a GREAT statement. As one who played for almost 40 years also color had nothing to do with it even in the schoolyard. If you could "ball" you played it was as simple as that. I was good enough to play at W. 4th Street and Manhattan Beach courts goggles were in fashion there before the NBA. Those were ROUGH games not for the timid.

On the other stuff I'm going to try and make a detailed post when I can find the time and try to remember a lot of stuff. Just keep in mind going into the 90's there were still shacks from the Civil War in North and South Carolina. Anyone my age (59) and had driven down to Florida will back me up on this.


You could see why Rose would think like that back then.

More thoughts later.