Tom Console, Win-More Express

[John]

It's up for bid on ebay. who already has it and is it profitable.

I would appreciate your comments.

:) :) :)

[dartman51]

It's up for bid on ebay. who already has it and is it profitable.

I would appreciate your comments.

:) :) :)

I have it. Save your money. Console has some decent things out there. This isn't one of them, in my opinion. :ThmbUp:

[John]

I have it. Save your money. Console has some decent things out there. This isn't one of them, in my opinion. :ThmbUp:

Thanks Dartman,

I went to RPM and read the $158.00 flier. It read like it was an all new PACE concept that Tom Console called " PACE ACE " I wonder if ir is any better than Console'e " From The Gate." or are they the same.

:) :) :)

[jwel14]

Have the win-more express.
Tried it at Aqueduct April 3, 2011.
The winners of the first 4 races were:
1:2
2:4
3:3
4:2
In race 1 Win More had the following:
2y
3y
Race 2:
2y
3y
4y-1
Race 3:
1y
3y
2y-1
Race 4:
2y
7y
3y-1
6y-2
So, was able to get both Pick 3's by playing the y and y-1 horses.
The y are yes horses. The y-1 and y-2 are some kind of longshot method. The literature doesn't say how to play those.

[dartman51]

Have the win-more express.
Tried it at Aqueduct April 3, 2011.
The winners of the first 4 races were:
1:2
2:4
3:3
4:2
In race 1 Win More had the following:
2y
3y
Race 2:
2y
3y
4y-1
Race 3:
1y
3y
2y-1
Race 4:
2y
7y
3y-1
6y-2
So, was able to get both Pick 3's by playing the y and y-1 horses.
The y are yes horses. The y-1 and y-2 are some kind of longshot method. The literature doesn't say how to play those.

Do you use this software everyday? And is it profitable over a week or a month? The reason I ask, is that I have 100 or more pieces of software that I have collected over the years, and tested. Most, not all, can be profitable on any given day, or days. Most, not all, will lose money over the long haul. On Jan, 8th I posted picks from one of my programs, in the selections section, for AQU, CT, GP and TAM. It hit 8 of 9 @ AQU, but 1 of 4 @ CT(rest of card canceled), 0 of 10 @ GP and 3 of 10 @ TAM. If you only played AQU that day, you think you've found the holy grail. If you only played GP, that day, the program goes in the trash. That's just the way it goes with software programs. :ThmbUp:

[dartman51]

If you look at the results from the day before, on Saturday, you'll find the program had 3 winners from the TOP 2 y horses, out of 10 races and they paid $5.50, $5.00 and $4.80. Tough way to try to make money. :ThmbUp:

[John]

Is there a way that you Guys can sniff out the winners and avoid the losers.

dartman1, picked 3 winers. Prices looked like favorites. maybe that is the way to go Y's that are favorite. Just my opinion.


:) :) :)

[jwel14]

But, if you throw away the program if the first day shows a loser. Look what could have happened with me.
Satuday, no winning pick 3s.
So, it goes in the trash. But, look what happened on Sunday.
Got the first 2 picks 3s. Money made on $1.00 pick 3s. OVER $700.00.
Not saying to buy it or any other program. Just that doubt if any program will show a profit all the time. It's what counts over time anyway.
What's frustrating is I got Win More and Snap cap Pro. It's common for each to have different,"picks".
Some days Win More does better. Other days Snap Cap.
Just started using it. Tried a few times just checking it out. While waiting for a close OTB site to open up. Lost my other one after Christmas.

[jwel14]

Will add that I have a software that hasn't done good for me. But, someone commented that he has had good luck with it.
I look at them as a tool to use as a starting point.
Have noticed that sometimes the favorite has low ratings. But, is the highest class horse wins. So, play it or leave it out?

[John]

Will add that I have a software that hasn't done good for me. But, someone commented that he has had good luck with it.
I look at them as a tool to use as a starting point.
Have noticed that sometimes the favorite has low ratings. But, is the highest class horse wins. So, play it or leave it out?

funny huh, if you could only play in between the rain drops.

:) :) :)

[dartman51]

Will add that I have a software that hasn't done good for me. But, someone commented that he has had good luck with it.
I look at them as a tool to use as a starting point.
Have noticed that sometimes the favorite has low ratings. But, is the highest class horse wins. So, play it or leave it out?

jwel14, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to belittle the success that you have had with the program. I think that it is great that you hit the 2 pick 3's. I'm just saying that anyone using a new software, should proceed with caution. Any software that I give an opinion on, has been tested on a minimum of 5 tracks continuous over a minimum of 3 months. I have yet to find ANY program that is a mechanical system, meaning, NO ADJUSTMENTS, that spits out selections, that EVERYONE will get the same horse, that is profitable over time. Not saying that there is none, just saying that I haven't seen it. Most programs like that, treat all tracks the same, whether it be AQU or BEU, TURF, DIRT or ALL WEATHER. That is a losing proposition. :ThmbUp:

[jwel14]

Agree on the spit out selections for everyone. But, even Tom says in his shap cap pro. That there will be people that find things that he misses. The best way to use any software is to first practice. Bris is only a dollar a card. Study it, learn from it.
People are different. And, we will always get different results. Don't play on Sundays as a rule. Did this time because not having an OTB for several months.
If a person wants a win everyday black box. It doesn't exist.
Even working for someone else isn't a lifetime guarantee.
The best horses don't always win.

[Sparky13]

Do you use this software everyday? And is it profitable over a week or a month? The reason I ask, is that I have 100 or more pieces of software that I have collected over the years, and tested. Most, not all, can be profitable on any given day, or days. Most, not all, will lose money over the long haul. On Jan, 8th I posted picks from one of my programs, in the selections section, for AQU, CT, GP and TAM. It hit 8 of 9 @ AQU, but 1 of 4 @ CT(rest of card canceled), 0 of 10 @ GP and 3 of 10 @ TAM. If you only played AQU that day, you think you've found the holy grail. If you only played GP, that day, the program goes in the trash. That's just the way it goes with software programs. :ThmbUp:

In your collection of software programs, do you have a copy of a program called "Clutch's Method" or a copy of the DOS version of "Ray Talbout's Pace Calculator"?

[dartman51]

In your collection of software programs, do you have a copy of a program called "Clutch's Method" or a copy of the DOS version of "Ray Talbout's Pace Calculator"?

Yes, I have George Clutch's software. It's all manual input. The version of Pace Calculator that I have is v1.0. Someone said it is the DOS version, but I have it running on a Quad Core, 64 bit OS with no problems. :ThmbUp:

[Sparky13]

Yes, I have George Clutch's software. It's all manual input. The version of Pace Calculator that I have is v1.0. Someone said it is the DOS version, but I have it running on a Quad Core, 64 bit OS with no problems. :ThmbUp:

I had the Clutch's Software several years ago, but lost the disk. The gentleman who wrote the program for the Clutch Method came out with something similar called "Wired4Speed". I use it with moderate success, but have always felt the Clutch Method was better. Any interest in selling your copy of the Clutch Method or the Pace Calculator?

[rubicon55]

Any of you guys on this thread use CompuTrak? I only see comments back from strong supporters that tout the software, want to see what the regular bettors think. If you want you can PM if your response is confidential. Thanks in advance?

[REBel]

Rubicon55,

I have been using CT for several months. Like most softwares, it has its ups and downs. Earlier this week it picked a $68 horse on top at Tampa Bay. I didn't play it, but I know two CT users who did. It also had several picks that figured very high only to run out.

CT is the easiest program I've ever learned and you can be up and running in a few minutes. Even after CT has pointed out its choices, I still have to check the past performances (my sanity check) to determine if I'm going to bet.

I'm still in the learning stage, but do feel that the horse I bet will give me a good showing.

Hope this helps.

Ron

[jwel14]

Have the Pace Calculator in both the slide rule and computer. Have had some good results with both.

[stats725]

in reference to dartman's post about tom console, and how most systems fail over the long haul, i believe 99% of people who test systems do not have a large enough sample size to be valid. the size of the sample you need is directly proportional to your win percentage. A system that produces 30% winners may be valid after a test of 5,000 plays, A system based on longshots that produces 10% winners at average odds of 11-1 is producing a positive expectation, but you may need 10,000 plays or more, to prove it is valid. I have tested many systems the old way many years ago, and I think most valid systems are based on fairly simple rules, and no more that about 6 rules maxium. small parameters means that it is easier to identify what rules make the system valid, and reduces the probability that results will deteriorate over time. it seems that most good systems will produce about 20 to 40 % winners, of course with a high enough mutual price to produce a profit. the big problem is when you develop a good system, you may only be playing 5% of all races, or less, which means now to get your 5,000 race sample, you need a 100,000 race database. also , you need to pay a program er ?????????? 100.00 or more an hour to write the programs, and thanks to those wonderful people at the daily racing form you can't buy a database for say 500.00 that would have like 8 years and 700,000 races, you just have do daily expensive downloads of all the tracks for 8 years, and it will probably cost you 50,00000 and thousands of hours of time. this is one reason among many that this is '' A HARD WAY, TO MAKE AN EASY LIVING" . One area that is showing some promise is betting jockeys whose win% is about 15 to 19% , at odds of 5 -! or up, GOOD jockeys on GOOD horses seem to lose More than the take, about 24% to 26% because they are over bet, you get a high win % with disproportionately low odds, but good jockeys on BAD horses win a low % with Disproportionately high odds. The good jockeys will still get bet down ,even when they are on a bad horse, but not enough to destroy the overlay they seem to be. My little sample of about 1000 bets, is much to small to be valid, but i did the research many years ago at eastern tracks and got about 10.5% wins at an average price of about 21.00. I always eliminate my highest priced winner from the results, to produce a more realistic average. the longest losing streak was 57 consecutive, which would eliminate about 99.99 of all players from playing this system. I am the one in a thousand who will , providing i can get a much larger sample.I am sorry to make this so long, i am just trying to contribute something to this nice group of people. good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dartman51]

stats, I agree with you to a point. If I'm testing a new theory or an idea, then yes, I would want to see a much larger sample. I have a database with every race, every track, going back to 2001. But unfortunately, I don't have a way to automatically run a new program that I just purchased, through that db. When I test a program, I do it 1 track at a time and log the results. I try to do it from the perspective of the average guy or gal who doesn't have DEEP POCKETS. Let's face it, if a program hasn't shown a profit after over 4,000 races, it's probably not going to. And most people don't have the bankroll to withstand losses for that long. I've tested many programs, that showed a great profit the first day out of the box, but would not stand up over a 3 month trial. Keep in mind that when a program is put on the market, the theories and ideas that are incorporated within the program, have already been tested over very large databases. Or should have been. It is my humble opinion, that if a program, one that does not require any input or decision making from the user, does not show a profit over a 3 month period, it is probably not for the average guy or gal. Now there are a number of programs out there, that require a lot of input and decision making from the user, that I'm sure are profitable. Those are usually priced out of the range of the weekend warrior, or have too steep of a learning curve. Most people want a QUICK and EASY way to have a little fun and make a little money in this game. The program I use on a daily basis, is one of those programs. It requires time and dedication. But if one is willing to do the due diligence, it is profitable. :ThmbUp:

[stats725]

thank you for your informative and interesting response about my reference to sample size and testing systems. You are right , most people won't or can't spend the time and energy that it takes to use a winning system. How many years have you been betting the horses? I am still burning the midnight OIL! Best wishes, Dartman, lets keep in touch. Stats