Gulfstream Screws Bettors Again

[Southieboy]

Take Race 5 OFF the Turf while in the paddock. :mad:

[PhantomOnTour]

According to those there it is raining cats and dogs

[RXB]

Southie, it friggin' poured. What do you expect them to do?

[Stillriledup]

Southie, it friggin' poured. What do you expect them to do?

I agree with Southie, i mean, its not like So Florida is known for sudden and unexpected rain showers, how dare they take the race off the turf. ;)

[MaTH716]

Southie, it friggin' poured. What do you expect them to do?

Change their stupid policy. Make it an all race so you don't get punished by ending up with a fraudulent favorite.

[andtheyreoff]

Change their stupid policy. Make it an all race so you don't get punished by ending up with a fraudulent favorite.

But...but...what about the people who put in dirt horses in this race? Why should they be punished for their weather forecasting abilities?

[MaTH716]

But...but...what about the people who put in dirt horses in this race? Why should they be punished for their weather forecasting abilities?

Are you serious? It's hard enough to win at this game under normal circumstances, now I have to handicap the weather and horses dirt form for races that are supposed to be on the turf?

There was a thread (that was closed for some certain reason yesterday) about a horse that refused at the start yesterday and people were in an uproar looking for refunds, mentioning things about customer service. You want talk about handicappers/customers taking one in the ass, this is a perfect example of screwing your customer. It is an absolute injustice for anyone who was live on a ticket going into that race and were forced to take a horse who was making his first lifetime start on the dirt.

[andtheyreoff]

Are you serious? It's hard enough to win at this game under normal circumstances, now I have to handicap the weather and horses dirt form for races that are supposed to be on the turf?

There was a thread (that was closed for some certain reason yesterday) about a horse that refused at the start yesterday and people were in an uproar looking for refunds, mentioning things about customer service. You want talk about handicappers/customers taking one in the ass, this is a perfect example of screwing your customer. It is an absolute injustice for anyone who was live on a ticket going into that race and were forced to take a horse who was making his first lifetime start on the dirt.

I wasn't being serious. See this thread:http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67154 for background info.

[Stillriledup]

Are you serious? It's hard enough to win at this game under normal circumstances, now I have to handicap the weather and horses dirt form for races that are supposed to be on the turf?

There was a thread (that was closed for some certain reason yesterday) about a horse that refused at the start yesterday and people were in an uproar looking for refunds, mentioning things about customer service. You want talk about handicappers/customers taking one in the ass, this is a perfect example of screwing your customer. It is an absolute injustice for anyone who was live on a ticket going into that race and were forced to take a horse who was making his first lifetime start on the dirt.

Yes, he's serious. Handicapping means you handicap EVERY possible scenario, including acts of god.

[MaTH716]

I wasn't being serious. See this thread:http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67154 for background info.
I kind of thought you were kidding, but sometimes you can't tell around here. Reading the thread cleared everything up for me. The majority of people seem to think the rule is ridiculous.

Yes, he's serious. Handicapping means you handicap EVERY possible scenario, including acts of god.
Hence the minority and someone who is not kidding about the scenario.................:bang:

[Stillriledup]

I kind of thought you were kidding, but sometimes you can't tell around here. Reading the thread cleared everything up for me. The majority of people seem to think the rule is ridiculous.


Hence the minority and someone who is not kidding about the scenario.................:bang:

That's because the majority of them can't forecast weather.

;)

If they took meteorology classes in school, they would change their tune!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology

[exiles]

Southie, it friggin' poured. What do you expect them to do?

It's the friging last leg of the p4, make it an all race.

[Dahoss9698]

I wasn't being serious. See this thread:http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67154 for background info.

That was painful to read again. I'm genuinely curious how someone can take Stillriledup seriously after reading that thread.

[Marlin]

I don't know which way I would go on this. I don't think handicapping the weather is a defense not to go with an all. However, If I'm live in the last leg, I might want to let it roll instead of taking a smaller payoff on an all. I would agree that it screws most bettors. However most bettors are going to lose the last race regardless. (assuming there isn't a massive fave) A minority of bettors are going to have the winner regardless of the surface switch. I think I would feel worse if they made it an all and my horse won than if they didn't and I lost. But thats just me and I certainly understand the frustration felt from others. Interesting topic and my opinion isn't nearly as clear cut as many on here.

[johnhannibalsmith]

That was painful to read again. I'm genuinely curious how someone can take Stillriledup seriously after reading that thread.

I actually enjoyed it. I'm amazed at how much more patience some of us had then. Maybe I just can't believe that I was so naive.

[onefast99]

The skies opened up and the track received about an inch of rain in 50 minutes, they did the right thing. Combine that with a lot of thunder and lightening and the crowd was running for cover. They sealed the main track right away.

[MaTH716]

The skies opened up and the track received about an inch of rain in 50 minutes, they did the right thing. Combine that with a lot of thunder and lightening and the crowd was running for cover. They sealed the main track right away.
Nobody's questioning their decision to take the races off the turf. They are questioning the horrible policy that affects live wagers regaurding a change like that.

[onefast99]

Nobody's questioning their decision to take the races off the turf. They are questioning the horrible policy that affects live wagers regaurding a change like that.
The all race isn't a bad idea for the exotics.

[senortout]

The all race isn't a bad idea for the exotics.


Betting syndicates are the reason the track won't push the all button in these instances....you gotta understand that they already may well have pushed their own all button, with REAL MONEY. Plus, anyone could have done the same. This extra outlay to cover fickle weather uncertainties gets expensive and track mgmt is keenly aware of that fact.

[DJofSD]

FWIW, the PGA and the organizers of the Honda tournament were able to make changes to their schedule for the final day of play (Sunday) on Saturday. They knew there was a storm coming and they knew they had a window of opportunity in which to finish play. And, they did.

I guess track officals can't operate at the same level as PGA officals -- not that they could start races earlier in the day but to at least know they were likely going to experience poor racing conditions. Maybe they could have let every one know there was a really good chance of rain, and, if it did rain, grass racing would be moved to the main track.

[MaTH716]

Betting syndicates are the reason the track won't push the all button in these instances....you gotta understand that they already may well have pushed their own all button, with REAL MONEY. Plus, anyone could have done the same. This extra outlay to cover fickle weather uncertainties gets expensive and track mgmt is keenly aware of that fact.

Regular people don't play with real money (I'm talking more about Pick 4's)?

You're right it would get expensive if you had to include horses based on their dirt/slop form in turf races. I would think that people who have been burned by the policy will eventually get tired of getting screwed and put their money into the pools at other tracks.

[MaTH716]

FWIW, the PGA and the organizers of the Honda tournament were able to make changes to their schedule for the final day of play (Sunday) on Saturday. They knew there was a storm coming and they knew they had a window of opportunity in which to finish play. And, they did.

I guess track officals can't operate at the same level as PGA officals -- not that they could start races earlier in the day but to at least know they were likely going to experience poor racing conditions. Maybe they could have let every one know there was a really good chance of rain, and, if it did rain, grass racing would be moved to the main track.

So you would be in the same boat, you have to handicap a turf race and look at horses dirt/slop form while throwing extra money into a sequance. How is that good for the customers?

I have seen instances where tracks have seen weather coming in and have sped up post times trying to beat it. But still that's not a solution to this warped policy.

[point given]

Been there , done that in regards to horizontal wagers on iffy weather days. What one must do, is check the weather report for any track one intends to play. Having done so bettors should bet a race at a time rather than pick3 4 etc. Of course there are times where a freak downpour happens but if the weather looks iffy then don't play pic bets. I decided to sit yesteerday out as the report showed rain with alot of turf races scheduled it could get messy.

What i found curious though was alot of MTO horses were scratched early and didnot run for the most part in off the turf races ?

[castaway01]

Been there , done that in regards to horizontal wagers on iffy weather days. What one must do, is check the weather report for any track one intends to play. Having done so bettors should bet a race at a time rather than pick3 4 etc. Of course there are times where a freak downpour happens but if the weather looks iffy then don't play pic bets. I decided to sit yesteerday out as the report showed rain with alot of turf races scheduled it could get messy.

What i found curious though was alot of MTO horses were scratched early and didnot run for the most part in off the turf races ?

If race 5 was still on the turf until the horses were in the paddock, then all of the races were still considered on the turf when the changes were announced, at which point all the MTO horses would have been scratched (since the races weren't on the main track). It happens all the time when showers hit in the middle of a racecard.

[onefast99]

What i found curious though was alot of MTO horses were scratched early and didnot run for the most part in off the turf races ?

The 14 Gold Mystery hung out all day as an MTO in the 10th race.

[point given]

What i found curious though was alot of MTO horses were scratched early and didnot run for the most part in off the turf races ?

The 14 Gold Mystery hung out all day as an MTO in the 10th race.

exactly what i was attempting to say :bang:

[Stillriledup]

everyone knows that it rains suddenly in So florida on occasion. Everyone knows the weather down there who's betting, they don't need the track to make these kind of announcements. This is why you have to factor weather into your handicapping. If you go into this blind, you might get stung, its not rocket science. Rain happens, this isnt the first time they did this, there's an entire thread about this very subject here.

If you bet a turf race in So florida in a horizontal bet, you're taking a chance. And you know this going in. The rules are the same for everyone.

My suggestion would be take a weather course at your local college and maybe you too can be good at predicting weather.

[DJofSD]

So you would be in the same boat, you have to handicap a turf race and look at horses dirt/slop form while throwing extra money into a sequance. How is that good for the customers?

I have seen instances where tracks have seen weather coming in and have sped up post times trying to beat it. But still that's not a solution to this warped policy.
How is that good for the customers? It's not. But the situation is not of their making. Weather is something beyond their control. Betting into horizontal bets is within your control.

Could they have handled it different or better? Not to the end most here would want.

If there is one thing the track management should have done is to communicate better or more often. It would at least remove the element of surprise that seems to be a part of the thread.

I'm not sure what policy you are talking about, warped or otherwise.

[MaTH716]

Just for curiousity sake, what's the policy at Calder and Tampa?

[MaTH716]

How is that good for the customers? It's not. But the situation is not of their making. Weather is something beyond their control. Betting into horizontal bets is within your control.

Could they have handled it different or better? Not to the end most here would want.

If there is one thing the track management should have done is to communicate better or more often. It would at least remove the element of surprise that seems to be a part of the thread.

I'm not sure what policy you are talking about, warped or otherwise.

Exactly. It's not good for the majority of customers (not counting the ones who handicap for flash storm moving through :rolleyes: ), so amend the rule/policy and make it an all race (a situation that they should be able to fix).
They could communicate all they want about possible weather, but until they make that change, all it turns out to be is lip service.

[riskman]

[QUOTE=Stillriledup

My suggestion would be take a weather course at your local college and maybe you too can be good at predicting weather.[/QUOTE]

Statements like this is why some of your posts can not be taken seriously.Where do you come up with this stuff? Sometimes I think you just sit around waiting for an opportunity to post something off the wall to see what kind of response you will get.

[DJofSD]

Statements like this is why some of your posts can not be taken seriously.Where do you come up with this stuff? Sometimes I think you just sit around waiting for an opportunity to post something off the wall to see what kind of response you will get.
Well, what is wrong with what he said? Is it the words he used, the way it was stated, or, the suggestion to educate yourself?

I actually think he's closer to being right than he is to being wrong.

Wager enough money and you'll eventually want to know something about predicting the weather.

[riskman]

Well, what is wrong with what he said? Is it the words he used, the way it was stated, or, the suggestion to educate yourself?

I actually think he's closer to being right than he is to being wrong.

Wager enough money and you'll eventually want to know something about predicting the weather.
Then buy weather insurance. I believe AIG might be a viable market.

[Stillriledup]

Statements like this is why some of your posts can not be taken seriously.Where do you come up with this stuff? Sometimes I think you just sit around waiting for an opportunity to post something off the wall to see what kind of response you will get.

So, because YOU don't agree with it, its 'off the wall'?

I mean, who are you, some sort of racing god?

Should i check in with you before i post, ya know, to see if you approve?

[riskman]

So, because YOU don't agree with it, its 'off the wall'?

I mean, who are you, some sort of racing god?

Should i check in with you before i post, ya know, to see if you approve?

That particular statement is off the wall. How many handicappers do you personally know that took a weather course? Not that I disapprove in improving oneself at any level. I will depend on the Meteorologists who are best-known for forecasting the weather.
No, not a racing God, no need to check in for approval.Most of the time I enjoy your posts but as your monicker states, your stillriledup.

[DJofSD]

Actually, while in college, I took three coarses about weather and climate. But those were long before horses and handicapping. But the knowledge I gained was well suited for handicapping.

[Stillriledup]

That particular statement is off the wall. How many handicappers do you personally know that took a weather course? Not that I disapprove in improving oneself at any level. I will depend on the Meteorologists who are best-known for forecasting the weather.
No, not a racing God, no need to check in for approval.Most of the time I enjoy your posts but as your monicker states, your stillriledup.

I mean, the weather course stuff is just me trying to emphasize that weather is part of handicapping. Some People here are acting like its a rare event and how dare GP take races off the turf. I'm just trying to suggest that you need to take into consideration that this might happen. Its happened before and it will happen again.

[JohnGalt1]

New York handles these situations correctly.

[Zman179]

And people wonder why bettors would much rather play table games and slots. :rolleyes:

[Dahoss9698]

Well, what is wrong with what he said? Is it the words he used, the way it was stated, or, the suggestion to educate yourself?

I actually think he's closer to being right than he is to being wrong.

Wager enough money and you'll eventually want to know something about predicting the weather.

This line of thinking, if you can call it that, is why we as bettors are screwed. This is a hard game. Anyone that bets regularly can attest to this. Now we have to be weathermen also? I find it hard to believe actual bettors feel this way.

The rules in Florida are unfair to bettors that play multi race exotics. No if's and's or but's about it. I'm not sure why anyone that bets would disagree with this. NY does it right and pays an all when a surface change is made, while a multi race wager is going on. All tracks and states should be doing this. This has been going on for far too long.

[Dahoss9698]

Just for curiousity sake, what's the policy at Calder and Tampa?

Exact same as Gulfstream. It's a state law and a terrible one at that. Gulfstream officials know about it and have apparently tried to get the law changed. I'm not sure how much effort they have really put into it and after reading some of the responses here, why would they?

If we as bettors can't even come together on something like this which is obviously wrong, why would they take us seriously?

[Dahoss9698]

How is that good for the customers? It's not. But the situation is not of their making. Weather is something beyond their control. Betting into horizontal bets is within your control.

Could they have handled it different or better? Not to the end most here would want.

If there is one thing the track management should have done is to communicate better or more often. It would at least remove the element of surprise that seems to be a part of the thread.

I'm not sure what policy you are talking about, warped or otherwise.

I think you're (badly) missing the point here. Stillriledup gets a pass, because he's just desperate for attention, but you usually seem sensible.

It's not about what the track could have said, or a lack of communication. The state law is what is at fault here and we as bettors need the tracks to get the law changed. If they cared, they would be trying harder than they currently are or have. But if we don't care, or excuse this terrible law, why would they try any harder than they need to/

[therussmeister]

And people wonder why bettors would much rather play table games and slots. :rolleyes:

And people wonder why bettors would much rather play trifectas and superfectas.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I think you're (badly) missing the point here. Stillriledup gets a pass, because he's just desperate for attention, but you usually seem sensible.

It's not about what the track could have said, or a lack of communication. The state law is what is at fault here and we as bettors need the tracks to get the law changed. If they cared, they would be trying harder than they currently are or have. But if we don't care, or excuse this terrible law, why would they try any harder than they need to/

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for some to play a multi-race wager and find out that because the chute is bogged down in mud that the distances of upcoming races will be shortened or lengthened by a furlong or so. Rain was in the forecast and with a decent education in soil composition and basic knowledge of most track configurations, anyone serious about betting could have seen that move coming.

At a minimum, if the condition of the race as carded changes and a wager within a sequence cannot be cancelled, the race should pay to all in that leg of the pool.

Very basic stuff and years later after alleged efforts that are apparently much more work than rebuilding the whole entire facility from a glorious, historic racetrack into a Carnival Cruise - still nothing has changed.