Should Game on Dude have been disqualified?

[andtheyreoff]

To help decide, here's the race, plus the head on view and the back view from the stewards inquiry.
2011 Santa Anita Handicap

Note: Meant to post a poll with this thread.

[turfbar]

NOPE and what the hell were the stewards looking at , Selma Hayik in the crowd,

because they watched that tape for at least 10 minutes b4 a decision.

After the race in an interview Baffert explained it succcinctly.

[Valuist]

I couldn't see the head on.

From the pan view it looked like Setsuko wasn't bothered and the only horse who was bothered was tiring anyways. It seems like when a jockey or horse reacts sharply, stewards take the easy way out and call a DQ when in reality, it may have had no real impact on the result.

[Knowclew]

I really think they got it right. I had no action, therefore no bias.
I was watching on HRTV, and they did a nice job showing the headons a ton of times during the review, along with jock interviews.
In spite of the fact all 3 hosts (including Gary Stevens) felt strongly he should come down, it seemed different to me.

To me, TC comes out ever so slightly, tapping Setsuko. He comes back in slightly, hitting Dude on the right flank at just the right moment in his stride, causing Dude's next stride to veer sharply to the right, causing the obvious chain reaction. Setsuko caused none of it..Victor was just race riding, keeping TC in tight, and caught a bad break.

This was very tough to call, and it is impossible to argue that those that feel a DQ was warranted are off base.

In a major race, with heavy stretch interference (esp. with a 4-5 fave involved), the stewards are hard pressed not to make a change. The vote was 2-1 in favor off the result....I think it was tough decision to not make a change, but a brave one.

On a side note...if there ever was a time to like the NY policy of having stewards comment publicly after the race, this would be it. I have not seen if they made a statement on their reasoning, but it would be very interesting to hear.

[Valuist]

I really think they got it right. I had no action, therefore no bias.
I was watching on HRTV, and they did a nice job showing the headons a ton of times during the review, along with jock interviews.
In spite of the fact all 3 hosts (including Gary Stevens) felt strongly he should come down, it seemed different to me.

To me, TC comes out ever so slightly, tapping Setsuko. He comes back in slightly, hitting Dude on the right flank at just the right moment in his stride, causing Dude's next stride to veer sharply to the right, causing the obvious chain reaction. Setsuko caused none of it..Victor was just race riding, keeping TC in tight, and caught a bad break.

This was very tough to call, and it is impossible to argue that those that feel a DQ was warranted are off base.

In a major race, with heavy stretch interference (esp. with a 4-5 fave involved), the stewards are hard pressed not to make a change. The vote was 2-1 in favor off the result....I think it was tough decision to not make a change, but a brave one.

On a side note...if there ever was a time to like the NY policy of having stewards comment publicly after the race, this would be it. I have not seen if they made a statement on their reasoning, but it would be very interesting to hear.

You make mention of the 4-5 odds. IMO this should be completely irrelevant and not factor into the decision. I'm sure they DO take this into account but they shouldn't. Kind of like the so-called "superstar" rules regarding fouls in the NBA.

[Knowclew]

You make mention of the 4-5 odds. IMO this should be completely irrelevant and not factor into the decision. I'm sure they DO take this into account but they shouldn't. Kind of like the so-called "superstar" rules regarding fouls in the NBA.

I mentioned it made it more difficult not to make an excuse. I agree it should be irrelevant and not a factor....but we all know to some point it is.

Even in weekday claimers, I think a top rider often gets the benefit of the doubt compared to a bug, or less accomplished rider. A foul should be a foul...but it isn't always that way.

[cj]

A friend pointed out this Big Cap to me:

GXIhVl8J8-E

This warranted a take down, but yesterday did not?

[MickJ26]

Twirling Candy was knocked sideways. He wasn't going to win anyway, but, he might've held on for third. Chantal was already in the two or three path and went to the whip lefthanded??? Game on Dude should've come down and Setsuko put up.

[MickJ26]

This is the track's signature race, maybe in the whole state. The stewards are going to take as long as they need to make up their minds.

[Rapid Grey]

I don't know if Game on Dude should have come down, I do know that Chantal Sutherland will get me to any track she rides at on a regular basis. ;)

[Valuist]

Lets not forget that AFTER the bumping incident, Setsuko did get the lead. It may not show up in the chart, but he was in front around the 1/16th pole, only to have Game on Dude come back on him.

Again, I could not see the head on but any contact with Setsuko appears to be incidental and in no way cost him an opportunity to win the race. The race was his 100 yards out and he couldn't close the deal.

[Relwob Owner]

Brisnet has a head on replay for every race on the card yesterday except for the SA Handicap......strange.


Does anyone know of a place you can go to see a head on replay of the race?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Brisnet has a head on replay for every race on the card yesterday except for the SA Handicap......strange.


Does anyone know of a place you can go to see a head on replay of the race?
The head on is available on the Chantal thread. It looks like the reason they didn't come down is because the chalk came in ever so slightly at the same time Dude came out. Chantal would have been toast otherwise because she just started whipping with the left hand.

[stringmail]

CJ,

that portion of the replay of 82 big cap would certainly suggest that a DQ wasn't warranted but the head on in this vid reveals at least a more plausible reason. a nose defeat by john henry after perrault drifts out 3-4 path in the stretch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c9gre1rB88

I think it is reasonable to assume John Henry was cost a better placing. I'm not sure TC and Setsuko were yesterday.

Regards

[Knowclew]

Brisnet has a head on replay for every race on the card yesterday except for the SA Handicap......strange.


Does anyone know of a place you can go to see a head on replay of the race?

Twin Spires doesn't have it either.

[Relwob Owner]

The head on is available on the Chantal thread. It looks like the reason they didn't come down is because the chalk came in ever so slightly at the same time Dude came out. Chantal would have been toast otherwise because she just started whipping with the left hand.


Thank you sir.....weird that Brisnet doesnt have the head on for that race and has all of the others.

[owlet]

the drf.com version has the head on.

My two cents: Chantal isn't really strong enough to whip left handed and control a horse and I think it showed.

[andymays]

' Even in New York, I've never gotten booed."

Read more: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_17550141#ixzz1FqCCMLx2

[FenceBored]

Twin Spires doesn't have it either.

The Twin Spires version has the head on of the stretch and a rear shot of them coming out of the turn as part of the stewards inquiry starting about 4:30 in the regular replay

[Shelby]

' Even in New York, I've never gotten booed."

Read more: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_17550141#ixzz1FqCCMLx2

I think it's shitty and rude that people booed her. Regardless of what happened, she was deemed the winner. Go boo the stewards.

[cj]

... Irregardless...

That always makes me cringe.

[Shelby]

That always makes me cringe.

Sorry.

Make that regardless.

[classhandicapper]

I think the key issue is that after Twirling Candy brushed with the outside horse "first" he was coming in a little at the same time Game on Dude was coming out. They bumped and that set off the chain reaction.

It seems like a difficult call to take down the winner for coming out when TC was also coming in a little.

I guess you could argue that the inside horse was coming out out more than TC was coming in, but I just can't see a DQ there when you can't even be sure all the bumping changed the outcome.

If anything, you could question the left handed whipping of Sutherland coming out of the turn.

[Relwob Owner]

Twin Spires doesn't have it either.



Meant to say Twinspires....old habits

[cj]

Sorry.

Make that regardless.

No need to apologize, this isn't English class. Sorry to divert the thread. I make my share of mistakes.

[Stillriledup]

I think that Quindici man should have also been disqualified for outrunning his odds.

Maybe they could also have DQ'd all the Baffert runners and placed them all last.

I'm all for just randomly disqualifying horses....we can just turn the greatest skill game into a game of lottery balls and random outcomes.

How about THIS novel idea.

PAY. THE. WINNERS.