Canada's HealthCare system= not acceptable for the US

[ElKabong]

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/newsfeatures/article/946070--health-crisis-looming-canadian-medical-association-says


Why do we want to go thru the shit they're going thru?? Every time I read an article, their wait times for this 'n that is unacceptable.

This website has a political slant. I'll leave out their emotional floor wetting, and paste a fact that I seem to read all too often in govt run healthcare. If Canada wants this mess, let them have it. But don't point to them or the UK as shining examples of a well oiled HCR system.

snippage>Citing problems at the Ottawa Hospital where he is chief of staff, Turnbull noted the occupancy rate is never less than 100 per cent. At any given time, there are 30 to 40 patients awaiting a hospital bed and, last year, 450 surgeries had to be cancelled because of a bed shortage.

[Native Texan III]

Why do you think USA is immune from the same pressures which are the same for every developed country. If all the people in USA needing medical care queued up for treatment we would not have the beds, hospitals, doctors nor money either. We already pay 43% more for a second rate system. The costs can only rise - so we bury our heads in the sand and hope for divine intervention - right?


"Turnbull warned that the health system is “deeply troubled” with pressures coming from an aging population and rapidly rising costs. The decline of the system can be seen in congested hospital ERs, long wait times for tests, insufficient mental health services, the shortage of family doctors and the inability of 10 per cent of Canadians to afford necessary drugs, he said."

[boxcar]

Why do you think USA is immune from the same pressures which are the same for every developed country. If all the people in USA needing medical care queued up for treatment we would not have the beds, hospitals, doctors nor money either. We already pay 43% more for a second rate system. The costs can only rise - so we bury our heads in the sand and hope for divine intervention - right?

Your logic is flawed. Not all health care systems are created equally; therefore, the better ones handle the pressures much better.

Also, you're assuming (by implying) that Ontario's problems are caused by people bombarding the system all once because all of a sudden everyone needs health care at the same time. :rolleyes:

Finally, you overlooked Turnbull's remarks about how costs, apparently, are spiraling out of control in Canada.

You could definitely use divine help to assist you with your thought processes.

Boxcar

[so.cal.fan]

Heathcare in the U.S. will be a disaster if Obamacare is not overturned.

Everyone I know in the medical field here in So. Cal., which include doctors and RN's, physical therapists, dentists, eye doctors are STRONGLY OPPOSED to the Obamacare plan.

[boxcar]

Heathcare in the U.S. will be a disaster if Obamacare is not overturned.

Everyone I know in the medical field here in So. Cal., which include doctors and RN's, physical therapists, dentists, eye doctors are STRONGLY OPPOSED to the Obamacare plan.

Hey, SCF, welcome back! Long time no see. :)

And your experience in your corner of the world mirrors mine in my plot. Virtually no medical professionalal wants ObaminationCare.

Boxcar

[maddog42]

My friends living in Canada say there Health Care is much better than ours. I believe them. A canadian friend of mine goes back to Canada when he can to see his Doctor. He says there are so many lies told about the Canadian Health Care system, it is ridiculous. He lives in Edmonton and I would admit that his view may be slightly biased and Edmonton may be the exception.
Another retired friend of mine is going broke paying $1000/month for Insurance for him and his wife. I am very critical of Obama and his spending, but he tried to get Good Health Care for America but Republicans fought it Tooth and Nail.
We need the public option.
Insurance companies pretty much own this country and the Republican Party.
And don't give me any of that commie socialized medicine crap. Most of the Industrialized Countries in the world have some sort of National Health Care and it works.

[newtothegame]

My friends living in Canada say there Health Care is much better than ours. I believe them. A canadian friend of mine goes back to Canada when he can to see his Doctor. He says there are so many lies told about the Canadian Health Care system, it is ridiculous. He lives in Edmonton and I would admit that his view may be slightly biased and Edmonton may be the exception.
Another retired friend of mine is going broke paying $1000/month for Insurance for him and his wife. I am very critical of Obama and his spending, but he tried to get Good Health Care for America but Republicans fought it Tooth and Nail.
We need the public option.
Insurance companies pretty much own this country and the Republican Party.
And don't give me any of that commie socialized medicine crap. Most of the Industrialized Countries in the world have some sort of National Health Care and it works.

Ok mad, since our own reps didnt know what was in obamacare till after we passed it (Pellosi's own words)....
tell us what is good about this healthcare bill?

[maddog42]

Ok mad, since our own reps didnt know what was in obamacare till after we passed it (Pellosi's own words)....
tell us what is good about this healthcare bill?
What we got with Obama care is a watered down and disappointing HCR system
but it has some Very Good things.
Insurers are prohibited from dropping policyholders when they get sick.

[newtothegame]

What we got with Obama care is a watered down and disappointing HCR system
but it has some Very Good things.
Insurers are prohibited from dropping policyholders when they get sick.
And the trade off was??? Here's a clue....let's take an unscientific poll and find out how many people saw a decrease in premiums as was told to everyone for the passing of this bill. Next, let's see how many businesses got waivers...

[maddog42]

Ok mad, since our own reps didnt know what was in obamacare till after we passed it (Pellosi's own words)....
tell us what is good about this healthcare bill?
The preexisting clause is worth the price of this healthcare Bill. What kind of Rat
Bastard would defend an insurance company for Dropping you because you got sick ? Many of your congressmen thats who. Some Democrats and most of the republicans were against this clause. It also extended medicare for I think 14 years. Do you guys have any idea how profitable it is to be in the Prescription or
Healthcare business?
My cousin sold her small Home Health care business about 25 years ago. She became a millionaire. She wishes she had kept it. It is probably worth 200 million now. I don't begrudge Healthcare companies making a profit. I am a capitalist. But many times there profit comes at the expense of the little guy.
I also found that this tactic of dropping people when they got sick is very common.
I live in Oklahoma and a friend of mine is American Indian and a truck driver. He never got insurance through his company, because he couldn't afford it and he thought his tribal insurance was good enough.
Wrong. He just had a triple by-pass and I think his tribal insurance covered
$250,000 . His hospital bill is $1 million. He will be forced into Bankruptcy. As will many of you reading this.
This crazy system we have in this country is very good for the rich, but for
the lower and middle class not so much. We are paying more per capita than
Canada for healthcare, but many of us are not covered at all.
For many years I was against Government run Health care, but in this one area Capitalism has failed us. Capitalism is great, but if you know of a better way, to have HCR in this country, Let me know.

[newtothegame]

Next, I would go so far to say that with insurance company cost going up, the cost will just be passed on (as you will probably find in premiums going up).
Now before this is taken out of context, I have no problem with sick being taken care of !!! Lets get that straight first....
But, was Obama's passage of this bill right to allow that to happen?
We were told that was not the case only to find out it was EXACTLY the case...and you wonder why people fought it tooth and nail???

[newtothegame]

The preexisting clause is worth the price of this healthcare Bill. What kind of Rat
Bastard would defend an insurance company for Dropping you because you got sick ? Many of your congressmen thats who. Some Democrats and most of the republicans were against this clause. It also extended medicare for I think 14 years. Do you guys have any idea how profitable it is to be in the Prescription or
Healthcare business?
My cousin sold her small Home Health care business about 25 years ago. She became a millionaire. She wishes she had kept it. It is probably worth 200 million now. I don't begrudge Healthcare companies making a profit. I am a capitalist. But many times there profit comes at the expense of the little guy.
I also found that this tactic of dropping people when they got sick is very common.
I live in Oklahoma and a friend of mine is American Indian and a truck driver. He never got insurance through his company, because he couldn't afford it and he thought his tribal insurance was good enough.
Wrong. He just had a triple by-pass and I think his tribal insurance covered
$250,000 . His hospital bill is $1 million. He will be forced into Bankruptcy. As will many of you reading this.
This crazy system we have in this country is very good for the rich, but for
the lower and middle class not so much. We are paying more per capita than
Canada for healthcare, but many of us are not covered at all.
For many years I was against Government run Health care, but in this one area Capitalism has failed us. Capitalism is great, but if you know of a better way, to have HCR in this country, Let me know.

Slow down there...who is defending the insurance companies??
I am saying we, as a people , were told that our premiums would go down...THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
We were told many things in this bill before its passage, only to find out Obama basically partnered up with those same insurance companies.
If he didnt, then why pass along waivers to mostly union groups??
I agree with most your saying but you keep trying to pass it on too repugs who fought it.....
So then you must think it was ok for Obama to bed down with prescription and insurance companies!!! They are the only benefactors of this crazy bill!

[maddog42]

Slow down there...who is defending the insurance companies??
I am saying we, as a people , were told that our premiums would go down...THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
We were told many things in this bill before its passage, only to find out Obama basically partnered up with those same insurance companies.
If he didnt, then why pass along waivers to mostly union groups??
I agree with most your saying but you keep trying to pass it on too repugs who fought it.....
So then you must think it was ok for Obama to bed down with prescription and insurance companies!!! They are the only benefactors of this crazy bill!

More people will be covered under this bill. The Public option was taken out by Republicans. When Social Security first came in to being , it was weak and didn't cover many people, but it has grown and despite what many say is a good program. Sometime this year it will start paying out more than it is taking in. It will not be broke as many people are saying. Social Security needs to be tweaked much like Reagan changed it and subsidized it in the eighties . We need to get over the baby boom hump. It is a very good program. We may even need to cut benefits to help it continue.
Obama Care is much like this. It is a first step toward a good health care system. A friend of mine told me that for the cost of the war in Iraq we could have tweaked Social Security and had a real HCR program that would last 20 years.
Now if you want to bitch at Obama for not doing more to get us out of Iraq and breaking other campaign promises sign me up. But the HCR blame goes on repugs.
Your premiums might very well go down soon. This hcr system is just now getting online.

[newtothegame]

More people will be covered under this bill. The Public option was taken out by Republicans. When Social Security first came in to being , it was weak and didn't cover many people, but it has grown and despite what many say is a good program. Sometime this year it will start paying out more than it is taking in. It will not be broke as many people are saying. Social Security needs to be tweaked much like Reagan changed it and subsidized it in the eighties . We need to get over the baby boom hump. It is a very good program. We may even need to cut benefits to help it continue.
Obama Care is much like this. It is a first step toward a good health care system. A friend of mine told me that for the cost of the war in Iraq we could have tweaked Social Security and had a real HCR program that would last 20 years.
Now if you want to bitch at Obama for not doing more to get us out of Iraq and breaking other campaign promises sign me up. But the HCR blame goes on repugs.
Your premiums might very well go down soon. This hcr system is just now getting online.

First you say "more people will be covered under this bill".....
I would bet you can NOT substantiate that with any FACTS whatsoever. if so, please provide a link. And I am not saying what they SAID would happen...but what is actually happening.

next, you say "Sometime this year it will start paying out more than it is taking in. It will not be broke as many people are saying. "
Huh?? You say it will not be broke, yet by your own admission you say it will pay out MORE then it takes in......:bang:
Tweaked?? It needs more then tweaking...it needs serious help as more and more retire versus paying it, it will rapidly decrease if something isnt done soon!

Then you proceed to tie in Obamacare to the war in Iraq.....is there no end to the progressive mantra??
Amazing you find the war in Iraq, but fail to mention the war in afghanistan...hmmm I wonder why? Is it because Obama said that was the "right" war? The war HE chose to continue?? Personally, the two wars are in no way tied to healthcare so lets stick to the issue at hand which the thread was started. If you wish to start talking about other things...what about the scathing report today of the GAO on washington and the millions upon millions and billions of WASTE and duplicity, and no oversight, and twenty to thirty departments in charge of same things? I wonder how far that would go to providing healthcare???
Then you say "We may even need to cut benefits to help it continue."
Again an admission that it will not last...but your suggestion is to cut some of its benefits to make it go farther? So, lets see...I pay in X amount but only get back Y amount....somehow I dont see that as viable.

And lastly, you say "Your premiums might very well go down soon. This hcr system is just now getting online"...
Could you again provide a link to any facts showing healthcare going down?
Understand this about business (which healthcare is), they are in it for ONE thing...money!
There is not one insurance company which will carry more of patient burdens and NOT pass them on. There will NOT be more people covered...as a matter of fact, there have been many copmpanies recently report that they will a. raise premiums, b. or drop coverages. So in fact, less people will be covered as the plan stands. Less people, means less people to collect from which in turn means more to the existing people.
Libs would like to have you believe differently, but that is reality. Corporate america will NOT lose money, less they go bankrupt and belly up!

[highnote]

I'm self-employed. My health insurance company raised my family's rates by 17% last year. I just got a notice this week that they are being raised 15% next billing cycle.

That's over 30% in 13 months.

Talk about inflation!

Personally, I think the government should stop paying for health care for its employees -- including politicians. If all government employees suddenly had to go onto the open market to buy health insurance, a solution to the health insurance problem would be found very quickly.

Additionally, it sure would be nice if our politicians would spend some time trying to solve domestic issues rather than blowing trillions trying to fight land wars in Asia that can not be won (North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan -- see a pattern here?). We could buy a lot of health care for the tax money we're spending on these wars.

[maddog42]

I'm self-employed. My health insurance company raised my family's rates by 17% last year. I just got a notice this week that they are being raised 15% next billing cycle.

That's over 30% in 13 months.

Talk about inflation!

Personally, I think the government should stop paying for health care for its employees -- including politicians. If all government employees suddenly had to go onto the open market to buy health insurance, a solution to the health insurance problem would be found very quickly.

Additionally, it sure would be nice if our politicians would spend some time trying to solve domestic issues rather than blowing trillions trying to fight land wars in Asia that can not be won (North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan -- see a pattern here?). We could buy a lot of health care for the tax money we're spending on these wars.
I found this under Wikipedia:
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
This will come online in 2014
Insurers are prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates for any individuals based on pre-existing medical conditions.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-Top_18-9)[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-39)
Impose an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, on individuals who do not secure insurance; this will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. This is an individual limit; families have a limit of $2,085.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-bglobetaximp-41) Exemptions to the fine in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs are permitted.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)
Insurers are prohibited from establishing annual spending caps.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-Top_18-9)
Expand Medicaid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid) eligibility; individuals with income up to 133% of the poverty line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_line_in_the_United_States#Measures_of_pove rty) qualify for coverage, including adults without dependent children.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-cnn_ref1-42)
I am sorry I couldn't post the actual Link on wikipedia . For some reason my computer is not allowing me to post this actual link. This preexisting condition clause will allow many more people to be insured especially people with diabetes. The preventive aspect of getting diabetics early treatment alone will save this country Many Billions of dollars.
Don't get me wrong, we got a piss-poor healthcare bill, but it is a first step.
It lets the insurance companies off the hook on a lot of crap. The expansion of medicaid will also insure more people.
When the tarp bill came along I said this bullshit. But after reading that most of the money of the original 300 billion has been repaid I have changed my mind. I have changed my mind on health care also.
The jury is still out on this hcr bill. I watched republican after republican on c-span talk against the preexisting condition clause. These guys want to preserve the status-quo and record profits for Insurance companies.
My example of the Iraq War in a previous post was an example of the money we are spending on other things that could be used for better things and easily fund the health care bill.



Health care costs are skyrocketing. Health insurance premiums have doubled in the last 8 years, rising 3.7





times faster than wages in the past 8 years, and increasing co-pays and deductibles threaten access to care.1



Many insurance plans cover only a limited number of doctors’ visits or hospital days, exposing families to





unlimited financial liability. Over half of all personal bankruptcies today are caused by medical bills.2
These stats are before Obama came in. He inherited much of these problems and didn't cause them.
I ask you again. What is your solution to the hcr mess. Making all government employees buy there own hcr is ludicrous. The
insurance companies would love that.
Obama's hcr plan isnt much different than the Dole plan of 10 years ago.

[Native Texan III]

Your logic is flawed. Not all health care systems are created equally; therefore, the better ones handle the pressures much better.

Also, you're assuming (by implying) that Ontario's problems are caused by people bombarding the system all once because all of a sudden everyone needs health care at the same time. :rolleyes:

Finally, you overlooked Turnbull's remarks about how costs, apparently, are spiraling out of control in Canada.

You could definitely use divine help to assist you with your thought processes.

Boxcar

No your comprehension of English is flawed.

I made no presumptions, just stated what the Canadian stated.

I made no statement on equality - you imagined that.

Costs are spiraling everywhere - more and more people are making it to old age and treatments are ever more complex. I did imply that.
USA has a 43% head start in spiraling costs and no clue as to how to reduce that cost nor to cope with a huge increase in aged population.
It is bad today but will be far worse tomorrow.

Your prejudices are clouding whatever is left of your thought processes.

[boxcar]

No your comprehension of English is flawed.

I made no presumptions, just stated what the Canadian stated.

I made no statement on equality - you imagined that.

But you did make this statement:

If all the people in USA needing medical care queued up for treatment we would not have the beds, hospitals, doctors nor money either.

Then your hypothetical was meaningless, as was the parallel you tried to make with it. You're comparing the reality of Canada's long lead time for beds with a hypothetical U.S. situation. If you weren't assuming that Canada's system was being bombarded with people all at once, then what was the point to comparing that country's problem to an imaginary, hypothetical one that would occur in the U.S. "if all the people in USA needing medical care queued up for treatment" at one time? The operative term in the quoted phrase is "if". :rolleyes:


Your prejudices are clouding whatever is left of your thought processes.

My thought processes are fine, thank you. You'd do well for yourself to look after your own -- sooner rather than later. How can you talk about my prejudices when the best you could do is compare a real situation in Canada to a hypothetical one here in the U.S.? :bang: :bang:

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

What kind of Rat
Bastard would defend an insurance company for Dropping you because you got sick ? .

"I'll take Presidents born into interracial marriages that throw their white grandmothers under the proverbial bus to gain traction during a racial issue, for $500 Alex".

[newtothegame]

I found this under Wikipedia:
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
This will come online in 2014
Insurers are prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates for any individuals based on pre-existing medical conditions.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-Top_18-9)[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-39)
Impose an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, on individuals who do not secure insurance; this will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. This is an individual limit; families have a limit of $2,085.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-bglobetaximp-41) Exemptions to the fine in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs are permitted.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)
Insurers are prohibited from establishing annual spending caps.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-Top_18-9)
Expand Medicaid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid) eligibility; individuals with income up to 133% of the poverty line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_line_in_the_United_States#Measures_of_pove rty) qualify for coverage, including adults without dependent children.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-ksr_hlth-40)[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_health_care_plan#cite_note-cnn_ref1-42)
I am sorry I couldn't post the actual Link on wikipedia . For some reason my computer is not allowing me to post this actual link. This preexisting condition clause will allow many more people to be insured especially people with diabetes. The preventive aspect of getting diabetics early treatment alone will save this country Many Billions of dollars.
Don't get me wrong, we got a piss-poor healthcare bill, but it is a first step.
It lets the insurance companies off the hook on a lot of crap. The expansion of medicaid will also insure more people.
When the tarp bill came along I said this bullshit. But after reading that most of the money of the original 300 billion has been repaid I have changed my mind. I have changed my mind on health care also.
The jury is still out on this hcr bill. I watched republican after republican on c-span talk against the preexisting condition clause. These guys want to preserve the status-quo and record profits for Insurance companies.
My example of the Iraq War in a previous post was an example of the money we are spending on other things that could be used for better things and easily fund the health care bill.





Health care costs are skyrocketing. Health insurance premiums have doubled in the last 8 years, rising 3.7









times faster than wages in the past 8 years, and increasing co-pays and deductibles threaten access to care.1





Many insurance plans cover only a limited number of doctors’ visits or hospital days, exposing families to









unlimited financial liability. Over half of all personal bankruptcies today are caused by medical bills.2
These stats are before Obama came in. He inherited much of these problems and didn't cause them.
I ask you again. What is your solution to the hcr mess. Making all government employees buy there own hcr is ludicrous. The
insurance companies would love that.
Obama's hcr plan isnt much different than the Dole plan of 10 years ago.


You can duck and dodge all you want ( by starting another healthcare thread touting canadas HC).
But, you neglected to address most of the things I showed where you were flawed in your thought process.
But, your ok with YOUR premiums going up...(even though you complained about the cost to a friend of yours)...:bang:
But I will go to YOUR other hc thread to address probably the most important part...

[riskman]

You can duck and dodge all you want ( by starting another healthcare thread touting canadas HC).
But, you neglected to address most of the things I showed where you were flawed in your thought process.
But, your ok with YOUR premiums going up...(even though you complained about the cost to a friend of yours)...:bang:
But I will go to YOUR other hc thread to address probably the most important part...

Do you approve of the idea of lawmakers using the appropriations process to defund or slow down implementation of the law in the absence of repeal. From your posts, it is evident that you hold unfavorable views of the health reform law. Are there any individual components of the legislation that you approve of such as prohibiting insurers from establishing annual coverage caps denial of coverage and denial of claims based on pre-existing conditions.What about insurance exchanges ?
There are many business that do not offer Health Insurance to their employees because of choice or costs. Do you favor tax credits to these business to help them to offer or provide insurance or to individuals to help buy coverage ?
This I know. Health Insurance costs will continue to rise if you do not reduce the number of the uninsured residents which some say is around 19% in 2010 to at least half that number in the next five years.Right now there is adverse selection in the market with many healthy people taking the risk that could afford insurance but opt out and when they get sick or are in an accident they go bankrupt[ or in the end we pay increased premiums. Then you have those who just can not afford coverage for themselves and their families.
There has to be a way to spread the risk so more people can find a way to coverage.
If someone purchases a home or investment property with a mortgage or finances a car, boat or any piece of valuable equipment the bank or finance company requires you purchase insurance to protect their loan or you do not get the property.Yet, this same person will walk around without health insurance because he is "not required to buy it." Figure that one out.

[Secretariat]

My friends living in Canada say there Health Care is much better than ours. I believe them. A canadian friend of mine goes back to Canada when he can to see his Doctor. He says there are so many lies told about the Canadian Health Care system, it is ridiculous. He lives in Edmonton and I would admit that his view may be slightly biased and Edmonton may be the exception.
Another retired friend of mine is going broke paying $1000/month for Insurance for him and his wife. I am very critical of Obama and his spending, but he tried to get Good Health Care for America but Republicans fought it Tooth and Nail.
We need the public option.
Insurance companies pretty much own this country and the Republican Party.
And don't give me any of that commie socialized medicine crap. Most of the Industrialized Countries in the world have some sort of National Health Care and it works.

The truth is in poll after poll in countries with a National Health Care system, it shows the majority of the population in favor of keeping it. They vote to keep the national health care even though they pay in taxes for it, because they like that healthcare is a fundamental right in their nation.

In this country there is a huge resistance and lobby to ensure that the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies keep growing their exorbitant profits. The fact that the Canadian government is able to negotiate a much lower drug cost for their citizens than we are is indicative of the power of a national health system. Here, we simply pay more. If you can afford to pay.

Whether you like the idea or not, 50 million people in this country currently do not have healthcare which is not the case in those countries. I suppose the question is - are you content with continuing to pay higher and higer premiums as more and more people join the ranks of the uninsured, or minimally insured, so your wait time might be shorter? Because the current system simply isn't working as medical and insurance costs in this country are rapidly exceeding the rate of inflation and wage growth. Unemployment only swells the ranks of the uninsured further increasing premiums further.

The Obama plan is far, far short of what is needed. There are some positive aspects to it, but it was so watered down, and since there is no federal healthcare buy in (which all GOP Senators have), it is too little, too late.

[newtothegame]

Do you approve of the idea of lawmakers using the appropriations process to defund or slow down implementation of the law in the absence of repeal. From your posts, it is evident that you hold unfavorable views of the health reform law. Are there any individual components of the legislation that you approve of such as prohibiting insurers from establishing annual coverage caps denial of coverage and denial of claims based on pre-existing conditions.What about insurance exchanges ?
There are many business that do not offer Health Insurance to their employees because of choice or costs. Do you favor tax credits to these business to help them to offer or provide insurance or to individuals to help buy coverage ?
This I know. Health Insurance costs will continue to rise if you do not reduce the number of the uninsured residents which some say is around 19% in 2010 to at least half that number in the next five years.Right now there is adverse selection in the market with many healthy people taking the risk that could afford insurance but opt out and when they get sick or are in an accident they go bankrupt[ or in the end we pay increased premiums. Then you have those who just can not afford coverage for themselves and their families.
There has to be a way to spread the risk so more people can find a way to coverage.
If someone purchases a home or investment property with a mortgage or finances a car, boat or any piece of valuable equipment the bank or finance company requires you purchase insurance to protect their loan or you do not get the property.Yet, this same person will walk around without health insurance because he is "not required to buy it." Figure that one out.
First off risk....I didnt make the laws. If the repugs are ALLOWED to hold it up or defund it, then it must be in the law somewhere for them to be able to do that. As to my opinions, you say I have "unfavorable views of the health reform law".
I have NO problem with health reform...it NEEDS to happen. But, not THIS LAW!
This law does NONE of what was promised which was to ..
A. Cover more people..... There are numerous reports and stories where just the opposite is happening.
B. Reduce premiums....CONGRESS itself now says this is not the case. (CBO).
C. Would hold insurance carriers accountable....... How has it done that??? By allowing them to raise premiums across the nation???
And there are many more things in THIS bill that are just bad!
How about needing an additional 100 or so IRS agents to enforce??
How many more government agencies do we need ?? After all, there was released yesterday a scathing report of the government and its duplicity and waste...and now we want more??
Then there is the constitutionality of it. Until the SC weighs in, which we will have to abide by either way...it hasnt even been proven that its constitutional!
I do like the pre existing clauses. I absolutely hate the fact that an insurance carrier can drop because of this.
The age of a child till 25 or 26....hmmm not so sure. I do understand that if a kid is in college, then yes, he shjould be covered if his time is devoted to school.
But if a kid is not attending school, and working, then he should be able to provide for himself. So I do like the kid part as long as there are conditions such as schooling.
I do not believe that by adding people to the system, you will reduce cost.
Anytime a cost exceeds your premiums, the insurance companies will just pass this along. If this is not true, then how are these insurance companies posting billions and billions each year in profits?
I believe PREVENTIVE healthcare is something we need to focus more on.
Too many people use the ER as their physician. That's not just uninsured.
I've seen people in the ER who could have easily been seen in a few hours by their regular DR or a clinic.
Then you have the illegals (which can not be denied) who are litterally taking the system apart.
There are many things that I think can be easily done.....
We dont need 100 IRS agents to track down tanning salons for a ten percent tax.

[riskman]

newtothegame-Thanks for your reply.Believe me I understand your frustration. The time line for this program expands over a seven or eight year period.IMO there will be constant delays and as we are already seeing, there are waivers being requested to delay compliance. First of all, I think congress did too much too fast and probably many law makers did not fully study this law or its future implications. Lets face it, the system has many faults-,discriminatory,wasteful, fraudulent and the administrative costs alone account for a large % of costs. Is this law the answer? Who knows, it will a long rocky road but I doubt if the SCOTUS will over turn the law.
You say adding more people would not reduce the cost. As an example, if you were in a Employee sponsored health plan that had an enrollment of 300 employees vs one with 5000 employees for the same benefit package and similar demographics who would pay the lower premium?
The larger the spread of risk the better handle you can control costs with proper risk management procedures.
The law is federal but will be implemented by the private sector. Since there is not a "Public Option"
available the Health Insurance Companies do not really have competition, only among themselves and the ones who continue to be inefficient will go by the wayside. If a Public Option were available it would force the insurance industry to take a hard look at themselves and possibly and I mean possibly be forced to reform themselves or face extinction.As a capitalist, I hope this does not happen.

[ElKabong]

The Obama plan is far, far short of what is needed. There are some positive aspects to it, but it was so watered down, and since there is no federal healthcare buy in (which all GOP Senators have), it is too little, too late.

It's the best your FAILURE of a preznit could do. He did the deals behind closed doors, no cameras, no repubs to derail whatever he wanted.

You got what HE wanted you to have in that bill. There's one of your kind born every minute.

[Tom]

There is no reasons why HC is given to ANY elected officials at any level.
Every congressman and senator should get the EXACT same budget each year, to fully finance their office, including their salary, travel, pens, paper, travel.......100$ equal.

[newtothegame]

newtothegame-Thanks for your reply.Believe me I understand your frustration. The time line for this program expands over a seven or eight year period.IMO there will be constant delays and as we are already seeing, there are waivers being requested to delay compliance. First of all, I think congress did too much too fast and probably many law makers did not fully study this law or its future implications. Lets face it, the system has many faults-,discriminatory,wasteful, fraudulent and the administrative costs alone account for a large % of costs. Is this law the answer? Who knows, it will a long rocky road but I doubt if the SCOTUS will over turn the law.
You say adding more people would not reduce the cost. As an example, if you were in a Employee sponsored health plan that had an enrollment of 300 employees vs one with 5000 employees for the same benefit package and similar demographics who would pay the lower premium?
The larger the spread of risk the better handle you can control costs with proper risk management procedures.
The law is federal but will be implemented by the private sector. Since there is not a "Public Option"
available the Health Insurance Companies do not really have competition, only among themselves and the ones who continue to be inefficient will go by the wayside. If a Public Option were available it would force the insurance industry to take a hard look at themselves and possibly and I mean possibly be forced to reform themselves or face extinction.As a capitalist, I hope this does not happen.

Thanks Risk...and I too appreciate the civil replies.
But, if I may, from my perspective here are a few of the flaws I see from what you said.
"IMO there will be constant delays and as we are already seeing, there are waivers being requested to delay compliance. "
If the above bolded is true (which I doubt about delaying it), there is NO ONE TO BLAME except for this administration. This administration has issued some 770 plus waivers and most to union places. Why would they wish to delay their own legislation???

"First of all, I think congress did too much too fast and probably many law makers did not fully study this law or its future implications."
Pellosi said as much when she said " we must pass it to find out whats in it"...
Again, this administration attempting to ramrod legislation through without allowing anyone to study the bill or see what was in it for a timely process.


"You say adding more people would not reduce the cost. As an example, if you were in a Employee sponsored health plan that had an enrollment of 300 employees vs one with 5000 employees for the same benefit package and similar demographics who would pay the lower premium?"
OK, let me try to explain whjy I think it will NOT reduce cost. First off, we are not talking about current employees who are ALREADY covered. With that being said, you have to ask, why isnt the employee participating in their current plans? I see the answers as only a few reasons why a person would not participate in a health plan...
1. Can not afford.... If they currently can not afford to participate (and we already see premiums skyrocketing) why would they be able to participate later? Premiums are only going up. They are not comming down so it will only become more expensive to carry insurance as time passes.
2. Company doesnt offer plans.....I don't know of many copmpanies who do not offer plans but, there are many companies who are already saying with the rising cost due to implementation of this bill, they will have to raise employee portions or drop them. It has been shown that it will be cheaper for companies to just drop employees and pay penalties versus carrying them. And I think we both agree that the bottom line is profits for a company. So either the employee will pick up a larger share of their healthcare (costing them even more) or again choose not to have it.

I do agree that in a perfect world, if everyone were to be covered, it would allow premiums to decrease.
But this does not take into account the millions of illegals who are killing the system in a lot of states.
There are many problems. I dont believe a LARGE piece of legislation (which tries to cover A LOT of different things ) is the answer. I think there are certain pieces at a time that could of been dealth with.

Lastly, the last thing this country needs is higher taxes. When the government is releasing reports from their own offices with BILLIONS in waste and duplicity, then turn around and ask us for more....well its obvious how entities like the tea party come to fruition. People are tired of washington and its waste. I will cast a vote AGAINST ANY politician that I can vote for who suggest a tax increase to help solve the debt problems UNTIL they fix their own offices.

[newtothegame]

Risk...as to the SCOTUS....seems they may have to overturn a lower courts (Florida) ruling if this legislation has a chance....

Fed Judge Issues Stern Words to Obama Admin: One Week to Appeal HC Ruling

A federal judge in Florida issued some stern criticism aimed at the Obama Administration today, after the Justice Department tried to bog down his decision ruling all of the president’s health care overhaul unconstitutional.

District Judge Roger Vinson told administration attorneys they have seven days to appeal his decision. If they don’t meet that deadline, Vinson said the states can then consider the law invalid.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fed-judge-issues-stern-words-to-obama-admin-one-week-to-appeal-hc-ruling/

Bolding by me

[lamboguy]

Heathcare in the U.S. will be a disaster if Obamacare is not overturned.

Everyone I know in the medical field here in So. Cal., which include doctors and RN's, physical therapists, dentists, eye doctors are STRONGLY OPPOSED to the Obamacare plan.obama care and romney care are one of the same. in massachusetts romney care has become such a big winfall for the hospital business that they are expanding now to take in all the new business. obama care is the best thing that has ever happened to a hospital or a quack doctor. they have now made stealing money from the public legit for bad phony health care and drugs. when obama care does become a reality the FDA will approve many more bad drugs to help the healthcare industry ruin us.