Some Random Observations/Ideas about Wisconsin Protests

[Ocala Mike]

Not sure if all of these are valid, but sure to start some discussion on here:

1. The pictures I've seen of the protestors reflect an extremely NON-DIVERSE group. They look whiter than a Tea Party rally. Are there no Black, Hispanic, or Asian public employees in WI?

2. Surprisingly, a Gallup Poll shows that the majority of Americans are NOT in favor of the WI law curtailing collective bargaining for public employees (61-33). I say surprisingly because I've been lurking on this board too much.

3. I don't see this as a D vs. R issue, rather one R governor vs. middle-class union workers in one state. Are you telling me that EVERY ONE of the protestors is a D? No R's anywhere belong to any union?

4. I see Walker as the R outlier on this issue for his unwillingness to compromise. The other states that are going to take up the issue are using him as a trial balloon; they will extract huge concessions from the public employee unions, but will stop short of abolishing collective bargaining. They will leave Walker swinging in the wind on this unpopular, uncompromising stance; the D's will get political gain on this whole thing on the backs of the middle-class workers who will give lots of financial ground.

Fire away!


Ocala Mike

[Valuist]

Its not black vs white, or governor vs middle class. Its about a state who's put itself in a severe budget deficit thanks in large part to the costly benefits its public employees get.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41664854

[redshift1]

One poll was conducted by a Democratic leaning firm so it should be discounted. The Gallup poll in Its entirety is producing mixed results.


http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/116679149.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUi D3aPc:_Yyc:aUgOy9cP3DieyckcUsI


Walker is hardly acting on his own and may be the sacrificial lamb for a republican "testing the waters" strategy. The real prize is union viability or should I say unviability.

[boxcar]

Not sure if all of these are valid, but sure to start some discussion on here:

1. The pictures I've seen of the protestors reflect an extremely NON-DIVERSE group. They look whiter than a Tea Party rally. Are there no Black, Hispanic, or Asian public employees in WI?

Oops, here's comes the race card.

2. Surprisingly, a Gallup Poll shows that the majority of Americans are NOT in favor of the WI law curtailing collective bargaining for public employees (61-33). I say surprisingly because I've been lurking on this board too much.

Other polls say differently. The citizens knew what they were getting with Walker. He ran as a staunch fiscal conservative and he won the election handily. This alone makes me suspicious of Gallup.

3. I don't see this as a D vs. R issue, rather one R governor vs. middle-class union workers in one state. Are you telling me that EVERY ONE of the protestors is a D? No R's anywhere belong to any union?

I see it as an employer (the private sector taxpayers) v. public employees.

4. I see Walker as the R outlier on this issue for his unwillingness to compromise. The other states that are going to take up the issue are using him as a trial balloon; they will extract huge concessions from the public employee unions, but will stop short of abolishing collective bargaining. They will leave Walker swinging in the wind on this unpopular, uncompromising stance; the D's will get political gain on this whole thing on the backs of the middle-class workers who will give lots of financial ground.

You misrepresent the governor's position. He only wants to limit the collective bargaining position to bennies.

Boxcar

[Ocala Mike]

Larry Kudlow??? Please give me a break; we all know how to link to various commentators.


Ocala Mike

[Valuist]

Larry Kudlow??? Please give me a break; we all know how to link to various commentators.


Ocala Mike

What is your point? Kudlow had his usual intelligent take on the issue. I get the feeling your "random" observations aren't so random after all.

[Robert Goren]

If you take look at most state governments, breaking the unions and cutting pay and benefits is mere drop in bucket when it comes to their financial problems. In Nebraska a business gets about 100k for creating a new job. What really being create is an illusion of new jobs. One company got 2 million creating 20 jobs in Lincoln while they laid off 50 in Seward. The city of Lincoln gave 250k to a company for opening a taco joint downtown. Businesses have learned how to play the cities and states off against one another. It is the giant hole in budgets that no one likes to talk about. The rate of growth in these giveaways will soon make them equal to or more than their entire current budgets.

[Ocala Mike]

Valuist, there are "intelligent discussions" of these issues on BOTH sides; I don't agree with Kudlow's views on the issue and, to that extent, maybe my observations aren't "random," but I didn't want to just post links.


Ocala Mike

[newtothegame]

If you take look at most state governments, breaking the unions and cutting pay and benefits is mere drop in bucket when it comes to their financial problems. In Nebraska a business gets about 100k for creating a new job. What really being create is an illusion of new jobs. One company got 2 million creating 20 jobs in Lincoln while they laid off 50 in Seward. The city of Lincoln gave 250k to a company for opening a taco joint downtown. Businesses have learned how to play the cities and states off against one another. It is the giant hole in budgets that no one likes to talk about. The rate of growth in these giveaways will soon make them equal to or more than their entire current budgets.

Robert....( I cant even call ya sluethy anymore as that would indicate you somehow are coming up with good arguements).....

Look at the above part I posted.....and I have one small example for ya that I cant recall you taking issue with...
CENSUS WORKERS......

that's not to say that the above, if true, is right. But, are laws being broken?? Lets briong them to light and fix the problem!

[newtothegame]

Not sure if all of these are valid, but sure to start some discussion on here:

1. The pictures I've seen of the protestors reflect an extremely NON-DIVERSE group. They look whiter than a Tea Party rally. Are there no Black, Hispanic, or Asian public employees in WI?

2. Surprisingly, a Gallup Poll shows that the majority of Americans are NOT in favor of the WI law curtailing collective bargaining for public employees (61-33). I say surprisingly because I've been lurking on this board too much.

3. I don't see this as a D vs. R issue, rather one R governor vs. middle-class union workers in one state. Are you telling me that EVERY ONE of the protestors is a D? No R's anywhere belong to any union?

4. I see Walker as the R outlier on this issue for his unwillingness to compromise. The other states that are going to take up the issue are using him as a trial balloon; they will extract huge concessions from the public employee unions, but will stop short of abolishing collective bargaining. They will leave Walker swinging in the wind on this unpopular, uncompromising stance; the D's will get political gain on this whole thing on the backs of the middle-class workers who will give lots of financial ground.

Fire away!


Ocala Mike

I can't speak specifically to a poll in wisconsin...but public unions as a whole are taking huge hits in polls across the country it would seem.....

"According to the poll released Monday, 38 percent sided with the public employees. The survey of 1,000 likely voters was taken Feb. 18-19 and had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.
A national Clarus Poll released last week also found that 64 percent of voters think government workers should not have union representation. Just 29 percent said the opposite, in a survey of 1,001 registered voters taken Feb. 4-8.

And a Pew Research Center survey taken Feb. 2-7 found approval ratings for unions remain at historically low levels. The poll of 1,385 adults showed just 45 percent of people surveyed gave unions positive marks. The approval rating was comparable when people were asked how they feel about corporations.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/public-unions-hit-polls-ahead-possible-federal-shutdown/#

Now granted, this is a different story then the Wisconsin fight....but I would think that in general, people are turning away from unions as maybe they are seeing them for the same that I think they are...!

[newtothegame]

and more...directly related to wisconsin....



Zogby: Majorities Support Gov. Walker Plan


Tuesday, 22 Feb 2011 11:26 PM





UTICA, New York - Two-thirds of likely voters agree that state legislatures have the authority to cut state employee salaries and 52 percent agree they can void collective bargaining agreements to reduce spending, according to a Zogby International poll.

Voiding collective bargaining agreements is also seen as preferable to continuing to pay state employees at current levels or layoffs of state workers in order to reduce spending and control deficits.

These results come from a Zogby Interactive poll conducted from Feb. 18-21, 2011.



http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/zogby-poll-wisconsin/2011/02/22/id/387052

[HUSKER55]

According to one of the local shows, Walker found insurance that cost less. It also required the teachers to pay more co-pays and Walker wants them to pay a bigger share, more in line with the typical taxpayer.

the average teacher gets $58000 and $26000 in benefits. the average worker in the state with benefits earns $37000

that means the teachers ae getting 2.5x the typical taxpayer.

I don't think the taxpayers are going to allow that to continue.

[Richie]

Many don't seem to get it, if you spend more than you take in, it's only a matter of time. What is so hard about that. I watched Gov Malloy last night on TV during one of his town meetings in CT. 90% of the people who went to the podium (including dozens of state workers) all cried about the cuts to their social programs, pensions, health ins, etc. It was all me, me, me. What would happen if we don't do anything?

[delayjf]

In Nebraska a business gets about 100k for creating a new job

Got a link - I looked and found nothing.

[ArlJim78]

to the original points, I wouldn't trust that Gallup poll, something is wrong with that number. I don't think 61% of the public even knows what collective bargaining is. since unions are only 10-15% of the population, why would 61% have a pro union opinion?

about the R vs D comment, you can't be openly conservative in a public union. you have to stay in the closet, and know that your dues are going to support democrats over Republicans 90% of the time. I've seen stories where the teachers union takes out a hit piece on a Republican running for office who happens to be married to a teacher. So this lady is paying dues so that her union can trash her husband.

this is a huge disaster for the public unions and democrats, there will be no political gain for them out of this. I don't see how you could spin this to a win for them.

[Robert Goren]

Robert....( I cant even call ya sluethy anymore as that would indicate you somehow are coming up with good arguements).....

Look at the above part I posted.....and I have one small example for ya that I cant recall you taking issue with...
CENSUS WORKERS......

that's not to say that the above, if true, is right. But, are laws being broken?? Lets bring them to light and fix the problem!No laws were broken in my examples, just tax payer money wasted. It tough to get information about these incentives in Nebraska because they are not published by the state. The only way we find out about them is if some reporter combs through the financial records of the companies get them. That only works for publicly own companies. Privately owned do not have to release financial reports, so nobody knows about them. The only information we get from the state is total amount spent, not who get how much. City spending is little more out the open. Basically in Lincoln, if build or remodel in certain areas, you get huge incentives no what it is. If don't do it in those areas, you don't. I don't see a lot of new industry resulting this kind of spending, just companies jumping back forth across state lines to the incentives. I suppose you could the moving industry is growing some because of them.

[boxcar]

and more...directly related to wisconsin....



Zogby: Majorities Support Gov. Walker Plan


Tuesday, 22 Feb 2011 11:26 PM





UTICA, New York - Two-thirds of likely voters agree that state legislatures have the authority to cut state employee salaries and 52 percent agree they can void collective bargaining agreements to reduce spending, according to a Zogby International poll.

Voiding collective bargaining agreements is also seen as preferable to continuing to pay state employees at current levels or layoffs of state workers in order to reduce spending and control deficits.

These results come from a Zogby Interactive poll conducted from Feb. 18-21, 2011.



http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/zogby-poll-wisconsin/2011/02/22/id/387052



I think Rasmussen had a recent poll that produced very similar results. And this makes sense. Walker was not an unknown quantity when he ran. He held some lower office previously and was well known for his fiscal conservatism. And he won the election easily. The people knew what they were getting and now they want him to see this through.

Boxcar

[Ocala Mike]

this is a huge disaster for the public unions and democrats, there will be no political gain for them out of this. I don't see how you could spin this to a win for them.




Can you say backlash?

Sometimes when you win in the short term, you lose in the long term.

Remember Newt Gingrich?


Ocala Mike

[boxcar]

Can you say backlash?

Sometimes when you win in the short term, you lose in the long term.

Remember Newt Gingrich?


Ocala Mike

You're behind the curve big time. "Backlash" occurred during last November. Live it. Love it. Learn it. We're seeing CHANGE that real Americans can live with and on which we can pin our HOPES. :jump: :jump:

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

Can you say backlash?

Sometimes when you win in the short term, you lose in the long term.

Remember Newt Gingrich?


Ocala Mike
yeah okay, but I just don't see an uprising based on wanting to maintain public union benefits so much better than everyone elses. I don't think that is a cause with legs.

[Tom]

You're behind the curve big time. "Backlash" occurred during last November. Live it. Love it. Learn it. We're seeing CHANGE that real Americans can live with and on which we can pin our HOPES. :jump: :jump:

Boxcar

Funny how the will of the people is now being restricted by the woosies in Wisconson - the reason the state legislatures in these states is overwhelmingly trying to reign in union abuses is because the voters overwhelmingly rejected the dems and voted for REAL change, and responsible government, a concept not understood by libs. So they take their ball and go home. Much like roaches scurry when you turn on the kitchen light.

[FantasticDan]

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/483275/scott_walker_falls_for_killer_prank_by_liberal_blo gger_posing_as_right-winger_sugar_daddy_david_koch/

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/governor_walkers_office_confir.html

[HUSKER55]

wonder if he will make that mistake again?

But then again, a journalist posing as someone else, ...

I think there is a law against that.

[newtothegame]

No laws were broken in my examples, just tax payer money wasted. It tough to get information about these incentives in Nebraska because they are not published by the state. The only way we find out about them is if some reporter combs through the financial records of the companies get them. That only works for publicly own companies. Privately owned do not have to release financial reports, so nobody knows about them. The only information we get from the state is total amount spent, not who get how much. City spending is little more out the open. Basically in Lincoln, if build or remodel in certain areas, you get huge incentives no what it is. If don't do it in those areas, you don't. I don't see a lot of new industry resulting this kind of spending, just companies jumping back forth across state lines to the incentives. I suppose you could the moving industry is growing some because of them.
So basically...everything you previously mentioned is SPECULATION?
I mean if you have no way of proving it...
You mentioned some reporter, I am sure there is a link to the story...no???
And private companies DO have to release financial records. Its called wall street if they are a publicly traded company....

[Robert Goren]

So basically...everything you previously mentioned is SPECULATION?
I mean if you have no way of proving it...
You mentioned some reporter, I am sure there is a link to the story...no???
And private companies DO have to release financial records. Its called wall street if they are a publicly traded company.... I am not going to hunt for a local story that is at least a couple of years old. I would not know where to start. So don't believe me, if you don't want to.
Companies that are owned by private equities companies and are not traded publicly do not have too make publicly their records. I used to work for a company that was publicly traded and then was bought by a private equity firm. The term is called going private. I believe they are still privately held. That company is Central Parking System. When I left them, I went to work for ABM industries which I believe is still traded on the NYSE. I was forced to sell a few shares of stock I owned when Central went private several years after I left their employ. I was forced to sell the few shares of stock in ABM I owned to pay medical bills. Last year I tried to check out how the companies were doing. I found a lot of stuff on Central, but no financial reports of any kind. ABM was pretty much an open book. For the record I was a very small cog in a very big wheel at both companies. I made the switch because Central lost it contract with the city of Lincoln and if I wanted to stay with them, I would have had to move. I turned down a decent raise to move when the new contractor (ABM) matched their offer.

[newtothegame]

I am not going to hunt for a local story that is at least a couple of years old. I would not know where to start. So don't believe me, if you don't want to.
Companies that are owned by private equities companies and are not traded publicly do not have too make publicly their records. I used to work for a company that was publicly traded and then was bought by a private equity firm. The term is called going private. I believe they are still privately held. That company is Central Parking System. When I left them, I went to work for ABM industries which I believe is still traded on the NYSE. I was forced to sell a few shares of stock I owned when Central went private several years after I left their employ. I was forced to sell the few shares of stock in ABM I owned to pay medical bills. Last year I tried to check out how the companies were doing. I found a lot of stuff on Central, but no financial reports of any kind. ABM was pretty much an open book. For the record I was a very small cog in a very big wheel at both companies. I made the switch because Central lost it contract with the city of Lincoln and if I wanted to stay with them, I would have had to move. I turned down a decent raise to move when the new contractor (ABM) matched their offer.

Well Robert.....privately held companies do NOT have to report. Not sure why you would be interested in that aspect if they are privately held. but back to the original post you made about businesses recieving tax incentives....
You can find that info EVEN if its a private held company and not traded publicly....
I would think that the municipality issuing the credit also has to account for it.

[Robert Goren]

Well Robert.....privately held companies do NOT have to report. Not sure why you would be interested in that aspect if they are privately held. but back to the original post you made about businesses recieving tax incentives....
You can find that info EVEN if its a private held company and not traded publicly....
I would think that the municipality issuing the credit also has to account for it.Amazingly enough the municipality has to be way more open than the state. In Lincoln, they have to be approved by a public vote of the city council. Aggregate amounts of state incentives are reported, the specifics are kept secret.The claim is that secrecy is needed so that other states will not know what incentives Nebraska is offering. It has been that way for over 2 decades though both republican and democratic governors. Although it can't be proved, it generally assumed that at least some of the incentives is going to privately held and family owned companies. We have a lot of those kind of companies in Nebraska. I think I can safely say that most of the employees in Nebraska work for those kind of companies.

[DRIVEWAY]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110223/us_nm/us_wisconsin_poll_1

The pendulum is swinging.

[Valuist]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110223/us_nm/us_wisconsin_poll_1

The pendulum is swinging.

Yeah real surprising headline in MSNBC, I mean Yahoo (basically the same thing). Yet when you read the comments and see the "votes" the anti union messages are crushing the unionites. I would never believe any poll on Yahoo. They will always go out of their way to bend the truth to the liberal side. No wonder why they've been destroyed by Google over the past 10 years.

[DRIVEWAY]

Yeah real surprising headline in MSNBC, I mean Yahoo (basically the same thing). Yet when you read the comments and see the "votes" the anti union messages are crushing the unionites. I would never believe any poll on Yahoo. They will always go out of their way to bend the truth to the liberal side. No wonder why they've been destroyed by Google over the past 10 years.
USA Today/Gallup Poll released on Wednesday is the reference.

[boxcar]

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/483275/scott_walker_falls_for_killer_prank_by_liberal_blo gger_posing_as_right-winger_sugar_daddy_david_koch/

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/governor_walkers_office_confir.html

Slow, boring day for you, FD? :rolleyes: Allow me to donate a clue to you: Walker said nothing to the impostor that he hasn't said publicly. So...just what was the point, again, to your drive-by post?

Boxcar

[delayjf]

I'm sick of this, I say let the Unions have their way - and lay off the workers until the budget balances. Well see how the low men on the Union totum poles feels about their unions then.

My only concern is NO FEDERAL BAILOUT.

[boxcar]

I'm sick of this, I say let the Unions have their way - and lay off the workers until the budget balances. Well see how the low men on the Union totum poles feels about their unions then.

My only concern is NO FEDERAL BAILOUT.

I'm with you. Lay the workers off. I'm sure the union bosses will be more than happy to chip in for their unemployment bennies to help out. The money would simply come out of the funds earmarked for "Democrat Party".

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm sick of this, I say let the Unions have their way - and lay off the workers until the budget balances. Well see how the low men on the Union totum poles feels about their unions then.

My only concern is NO FEDERAL BAILOUT.

I came to the same conclusion today. Let the loonies have their way in Wisconsin. There's not enough water for there to be pirates when the shit hits the fan.

[Secretariat]

This is nothing more than government trampling on the collective bargaining rights of citizens. It's union busting pure and simple as Gov. Walker revealed in a phone call to a prank calling journalist.

But what's amazing is that Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year, yet, Walker simply wants to bust the union. Even though this union has been willing to accept lower pay and benefits. He insists that collective bargaining be stripped which is at the core of any union.

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/02/rachel-maddow-reveals-the-hidden-truth-behind-the-wisconsin-protests-video/

"Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year. I am not kidding. I’m quoting their own version of the congressional budget office, the state’s own nonpartisan assess the state’s finances agency. That agency said the month that the new Republican governor of Wisconsin was sworn in, last month, that the state was on track to have a $120 million budget surplus this year."

[boxcar]

This is nothing more than government trampling on the collective bargaining rights of citizens. It's union busting pure and simple as Gov. Walker revealed in a phone call to a prank calling journalist.

Quote where Walker said that.

But what's amazing is that Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year, yet, Walker simply wants to bust the union. Even though this union has been willing to accept lower pay and benefits. He insists that collective bargaining be stripped which is at the core of any union.

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/02/rachel-maddow-reveals-the-hidden-truth-behind-the-wisconsin-protests-video/

"Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year. I am not kidding. I’m quoting their own version of the congressional budget office, the state’s own nonpartisan assess the state’s finances agency. That agency said the month that the new Republican governor of Wisconsin was sworn in, last month, that the state was on track to have a $120 million budget surplus this year."

What is amazing is your gullibility. And you put a Maddow link? :lol: :lol: :lol: She's as clueless as they come. Talk about the blind leading the blind. :rolleyes: Here's the straight skinny on that "surplus".

The confusion, it appears, stems from a section in Lang’s memo that—read on its own—does project a $121 million surplus in the state’s general fund as of June 30, 2011.

But the remainder of the routine memo—consider it the fine print—outlines $258 million in unpaid bills or expected shortfalls in programs such as Medicaid services for the needy ($174 million alone), the public defender’s office and corrections. Additionally, the state owes Minnesota $58.7 million under a discontinued tax reciprocity deal.

The result, by our math and Lang’s, is the $137 million shortfall.

It would be closer to the $340 million figure if the figure included the $200 million owed to the state’s patient compensation fund, a debt courts have declared resulted from an illegal raid on the fund under former Gov. Jim Doyle.

http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/rachel-maddow-falsely-claims-wisconsin-has-budget-surplus-video#ixzz1EqChnBA1

Maddow quoted the text out of context which amounted to a pretext.

Boxcar

[Ocala Mike]

This is some of what I meant about outlier Walker's "boys" leaving him to swing in the wind:

Republican Florida Gov. Rick Scott:

"My belief is as long as people know what they’re doing, collective bargaining is fine."

Republican Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbitt:

"We’ll begin negotiations with the public-sector unions and anticipate we’ll conduct those in good faith."

Republican Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels:

"I’m not sending the state police after anybody. I’m not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protecting the Indiana public. I trust that people’s consciences will bring them back to work. … For reasons I’ve explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised. I’ll also say I think it would have the potential — just tactically — to possibly reduce or wreck the chances for education reform and local government reform and criminal justice reform and the things we have a wonderful chance to do.”

Not sure about how things are going in Ohio, but believe Kasich is getting some pushback there also.

America - all about forming a more perfect UNION!


Ocala Mike

[Tom]

This is nothing more than government trampling on the collective bargaining rights of citizens.

After months of no-show, Sec is now moving like a tremendous machine!
must be the Obama machine is getting worried and calling for all hands on deck.

Sec, maybe you will grace us with an analysis of how the dems in WI are trampling on the rights of the voters by preventing the duly elected legislature from legally functioning?

[Secretariat]

After months of no-show, Sec is now moving like a tremendous machine!
must be the Obama machine is getting worried and calling for all hands on deck.

Sec, maybe you will grace us with an analysis of how the dems in WI are trampling on the rights of the voters by preventing the duly elected legislature from legally functioning?

I'm certainly not part of the Obama machine. A vast dissapointment. Way too conservative for my tastes. Another case of voting for the lesser of two evils.

As to the protesters in WI, they're union members, and I assume that there are Republicans who are also members of unions out there. I just never understood why Republicans are always so keen on using governmental power to take away right of citizens such as collective bargaining. This is selective power too as other public sector unions such as police are exempt from Gov. Walker's union busting. I guess to him he decides who can effectively bargain and who can't. Interesting.

[bigmack]

Republicans are always so keen on using governmental power to take away right of citizens such as collective bargaining.
I was unaware this bill would take away all collective bargaining. Could you link a source for that?

[newtothegame]

I'm certainly not part of the Obama machine. A vast dissapointment. Way too conservative for my tastes. Another case of voting for the lesser of two evils.

As to the protesters in WI, they're union members, and I assume that there are Republicans who are also members of unions out there. I just never understood why Republicans are always so keen on using governmental power to take away right of citizens such as collective bargaining. This is selective power too as other public sector unions such as police are exempt from Gov. Walker's union busting. I guess to him he decides who can effectively bargain and who can't. Interesting.

Could you please provide a link showing all the KIDS that were there as to what union they belonged too, or currently belong too?

But you know what...I too (as others have mentioned ) have come to see mosty. eastie, and the rest of the libs point. Not that he would but, Gov Walker...if you get any message loud and clear...leave the unions be. They worked for what they have...
You too have a budget to balance....
Start layoffs immediately of government employees (which obviously would be those same public unions)....
I mean after all...everyone wins then.
You can balance the budget.....
unions keep their collective bargaining,....
and tax payers do not carry those large burdens anymore as layoffs would address that half!

[boxcar]

I'm certainly not part of the Obama machine. A vast dissapointment. Way too conservative for my tastes. Another case of voting for the lesser of two evils.

As to the protesters in WI, they're union members, and I assume that there are Republicans who are also members of unions out there. I just never understood why Republicans are always so keen on using governmental power to take away right of citizens such as collective bargaining. This is selective power too as other public sector unions such as police are exempt from Gov. Walker's union busting. I guess to him he decides who can effectively bargain and who can't. Interesting.

Get over it. The Repugs are not using "governmental power". They're simply governing according to the consent of the will The People, very much unlike the Dems did when they passed ObminationCare.

Boxcar

[FantasticDan]

Slow, boring day for you, FD? :rolleyes: Allow me to donate a clue to you: Walker said nothing to the impostor that he hasn't said publicly. :lol: :bang: :lol:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/wisconsin-democrat-walker-master-plan_n_827367.html

[FantasticDan]

I was unaware this bill would take away all collective bargaining. Could you link a source for that?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014314086_wisconsin24.html

The governor's plan would strip most public employees of collective-bargaining rights and force them to pay more for health-care and retirement benefits.


The unions have agreed to pay more into their benefits, but Walker isn't interested. It's about busting.

[bigmack]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014314086_wisconsin24.html

The governor's plan would strip most public employees of collective-bargaining rights and force them to pay more for health-care and retirement benefits.

You think you can waltz in here and throw that POS link in? You are a clown.

[FantasticDan]

You think you can waltz in here and throw that POS link in? You are a clown.Uh-oh! The bigjoke forgot his Midol tonite.. :lol:

[boxcar]

:lol: :bang: :lol:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/wisconsin-democrat-walker-master-plan_n_827367.html

Hey, clown, the governor wasn't tricking anyone. That's it? That was the shocking discovery by this guy? That's kinda open to interpretation.

Hey...at this stage of the game, I hope the Dems never go back to Wisconsin. It's time for the Gov to start writing pink slips to be inserted in envelopes with employees' paychecks. Then the cowardly, spineless Democrats who are always boasting and pounding their chest about how they're such great champions of "democracy" can go cry in their beer while fielding the sad sob stories from ex-union members.

Boxcar

[HUSKER55]

aCCORDING TO the local media 8 of those democratic senators are subject to recall elections. I guess they got the necessary signitures and now it is on to the next step.

8 dems out and 8 new senators in

[delayjf]

Future Union contracts needs to include a roll back provision which would allow the states to reduce outlays to Unions workers when a state's budget requires the reduction.

[Robert Goren]

Anybody who thinks that the passage of right to work laws and getting tough with unions is going to solve their states fiscal problems has to look no further than Texas and its 10 billion shortfall to see how wrong they are. As much fun as it is for conservatives to beat up on unions, it not going solve any state's fiscal problems. What is the WI governor (and his fellow governors) going to do after he breaks the unions and his state is still in just a big mess as it was before?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Anybody who thinks that the passage of right to work laws and getting tough with unions is going to solve their states fiscal problems has to look no further than Texas and its 10 billion shortfall to see how wrong they are. As much fun as it is for conservatives to beat up on unions, it not going solve any state's fiscal problems. What is the WI governor (and his fellow governors) going to do after he breaks the unions and his state is still in just a big mess as it was before?

Without disagreeing here - just please tell me that on the off chance that it does help significantly...

...please tell me this won't be another case of re-writing the narrative after the fact and then telling everyone that the Governor did LOTS of other things to help his State, not just battle unions, and thus, it can't be concluded that the union stance solved or helped anything.

I mean, you and I know that's exactly what will be said so that everyone can have it every which way.

[Sugar Ron]

LMAO at that prank call

Had the doofus fooled the whole time ... 20 minutes, no less ... LMAO

Too funny


Didn't Sarah The Quitter get duped a while back too?


Stuttering John would've had a field day with these dumb cons back in the day.

[boxcar]

LMAO at that prank call

Had the doofus fooled the whole time ... 20 minutes, no less ... LMAO

Too funny


Didn't Sarah The Quitter get duped a while back too?


Stuttering John would've had a field day with these dumb cons back in the day.

Too bad the empty-headed prank came up just as empty with collecting dirt on the Gov. It appears the joke was on the lying prank.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

they've been saying that Walker is just a pawn of Koch's, that Koch is behind all these Wisconsin changes. the prank call shows that Walker doesn't even know Koch.

[Tom]

Weren't they chanting that the other day? :rolleyes:

[mostpost]

Slow, boring day for you, FD? :rolleyes: Allow me to donate a clue to you: Walker said nothing to the impostor that he hasn't said publicly. So...just what was the point, again, to your drive-by post?

Boxcar

Show me where Walker said in public that he was considering sending in troublemakers disguised as, or pretending to be, union demonstrators. These faux demonstrators would be instructed to create havoc, damage property, and generally make the union people look bad. They would do this under the direction of the governor. When pretend David Koch suggested this very thing, Walker said they had considered it. His reason for rejecting it was not immorality or illegality, It was that he questioned its effectiveness and worried about the possibility of being found out.

The there was the point where Walker told Koch that he would tell the Democratic Senators that he was willing to talk to them, if they would all return to Madison and and go into session. Then he promised that a recess would be called and they would meet in his office. What he planned to do then was keep the Senators distracted while the Republicans reopened the session and passed the bill. I can't even count the number of lies and deceptions in this plan. And I missed the Press Conference where Governor Walker said, "Hey Wisconsites, I have no qualms about lying and cheating as long as it achieves my ends." To call this guy a weasel would be to insult the Rodent family.

[mostpost]

Uh-oh! The bigjoke forgot his Midol tonite.. :lol:

You realize that bigmack, I mean bigjoke, rarely has anything of substance to offer. His modus operandi is to post clever(?) photos or to insult people.

[mostpost]

Hey, clown, the governor wasn't tricking anyone. That's it? That was the shocking discovery by this guy? That's kinda open to interpretation.

Hey...at this stage of the game, I hope the Dems never go back to Wisconsin. It's time for the Gov to start writing pink slips to be inserted in envelopes with employees' paychecks. Then the cowardly, spineless Democrats who are always boasting and pounding their chest about how they're such great champions of "democracy" can go cry in their beer while fielding the sad sob stories from ex-union members.

Boxcar
The unions long ago agreed to the financial concessions asked for by the state of Wisconsin. If Walker starts to fire people, it would not be to improve the state's finances. It would be to force the democrats back to Madison so the union busting bill could be passed. Walker would be nothing more than a terrorist holding hostages.

[mostpost]

they've been saying that Walker is just a pawn of Koch's, that Koch is behind all these Wisconsin changes. the prank call shows that Walker doesn't even know Koch.

Either that or he's stupid.
Did Kukla or Ollie know Burr Tillstrom?
Did Kermit or Miss Piggy know Jim Henson?
In these cases we can excuse the puppets. They're just a bunch of woodenheads. In the case of Walker, he is a..........oh, wait, he's a woodenhead too.

[Mike at A+]

Walker should hire "Dog the Bounty Hunter" to capture the runaways. The assholes who fled to Illinois are basically telling their constituents that elections mean nothing to them when they lose. Time to suck it up, go vote and take your lumps. Holding the vote (and Wisconsin's voters) hostage to their childish little game only shows that Democrats are pussies. Wisconsin is just the tip of the iceberg. Many other states (with both Republican and Democrat Governors) are lining up to undo the damage done by Obama and the unions. And how about that rent-a-thug who assaulted a woman at the protest? Now there's a real man for ya!

[boxcar]

Show me where Walker said in public that he was considering sending in troublemakers disguised as, or pretending to be, union demonstrators. These faux demonstrators would be instructed to create havoc, damage property, and generally make the union people look bad. They would do this under the direction of the governor. When pretend David Koch suggested this very thing, Walker said they had considered it. His reason for rejecting it was not immorality or illegality, It was that he questioned its effectiveness and worried about the possibility of being found out.

The there was the point where Walker told Koch that he would tell the Democratic Senators that he was willing to talk to them, if they would all return to Madison and and go into session. Then he promised that a recess would be called and they would meet in his office. What he planned to do then was keep the Senators distracted while the Republicans reopened the session and passed the bill. I can't even count the number of lies and deceptions in this plan. And I missed the Press Conference where Governor Walker said, "Hey Wisconsites, I have no qualms about lying and cheating as long as it achieves my ends." To call this guy a weasel would be to insult the Rodent family.

First of all, the cowardly Dems should be in session doing their job. They shouldn't be AWOL. So, even if the Gov was going to trick them, I'd say that turn-about would be fair play.

Secondly, provide Walker's quotes and a link. You're infamous for quoting people out of context.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

The unions long ago agreed to the financial concessions asked for by the state of Wisconsin. If Walker starts to fire people, it would not be to improve the state's finances. It would be to force the democrats back to Madison so the union busting bill could be passed. Walker would be nothing more than a terrorist holding hostages.

:lol: :lol: :lol: It's called political hardball! Didn't Obama recently threaten that the Repugs' suggested spending cuts could impact people receiving their SS benefits? Obama is the terrorist, hiding behind one of the most vulnerable class of people in this country -- seniors.

On the other hand, the cowardly, lying Dems in Wisconsin should have never left in the first place, which gives them no moral footing. As far as I'm concerned they can stay away forever. Walker will simply terminate who the state doesn't need.

Funny how you're so concerned with Walkers' supposed coercive actions against the poor, victimized Dems, but you never give a flip when the Dems pull their coercive stunts against the People. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

LMAO at that prank call

Had the doofus fooled the whole time ... 20 minutes, no less ... LMAO

Too funny


Didn't Sarah The Quitter get duped a while back too?


Stuttering John would've had a field day with these dumb cons back in the day.What's the difference? He didn't say anything incriminating, so the prank, in my opinion, backfired.

I'm sure I could call you on the phone and convince you I was your mailman. Big F'ing deal...