Calder Drops Bomb on Horseman

[CryingForTheHorses]

Just came back from a meeting for the horseman hosted by Calder managment.Told us how they are improving backside by all the repairs blah blah blah..Then came the bomb.As of sat feb 26,No horses will be allowed to race at GP except for stake races.They are telling us that we will have to have special permission to get the horse back on the grounds.Calder meet starts Apr 25.Tampa is still being discussed.Damn..Horseman are going to starve.This came as a total surprise to us horseman but its all because of GP trying to get more winter dates.Calder tells us it will race 4 days a week until nov and the 3 days a week until the following April.I understand Calder has to take some kind of stand but using the horseman as pawns isnt fair.We didnt even get a heads up on what this meeting was about.Owners are going to pull their horses off the grounds and leave a lot of people out of work.God help us as we are going to need it

[mistergee]

they obviously have no brain

[lamboguy]

i just sent 15 horses to calder this morning, i don't have a problem though, none of them are going to run @gulfstream. i love training horses in calder, they do a nice job maintaining that place. i suspect they are paying the bills there and don't want to help out the place that is trying to strangle them for their dates.

[Ocala Mike]

Fighting over racing dates has been going on in Florida since day one. Isn't FTBOA or the State doing anything about this stuff? What's gonna happen when Hialeah cuts back in?


Ocala Mike

[Tom]

Can they do this legally?

This sound to me - not that I like it - a golden opportunity for GP to emand extra days going right through June! Reason - to allow you guys to race horses.

Kill off Calder once and for all. As a player, I now favor this - if Calder wants to damage the game, I want to damage Calder. They just got added to my boycott forever list.

SA, GP, Crc, CD - deserve no support from players, imho.

[CryingForTheHorses]

i just sent 15 horses to calder this morning, i don't have a problem though, none of them are going to run @gulfstream. i love training horses in calder, they do a nice job maintaining that place. i suspect they are paying the bills there and don't want to help out the place that is trying to strangle them for their dates.


I understand what you are saying,BUT..If them 15 horses were fit and ready to run,Then you would have a problem.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Can they do this legally?

This sound to me - not that I like it - a golden opportunity for GP to emand extra days going right through June! Reason - to allow you guys to race horses.

Kill off Calder once and for all. As a player, I now favor this - if Calder wants to damage the game, I want to damage Calder. They just got added to my boycott forever list.

SA, GP, Crc, CD - deserve no support from players, imho.


GP could never run till june,With the moonsoon rains GP track cant take the water.Calder has to make a statement but shouldnt use the horsemans livelyhood to do it.

[Kelso]

Owners are going to pull their horses off the grounds

Where, instead, will they stable and train them ... and why haven't they been there all along anyway?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Can they do this legally?

This sound to me - not that I like it - a golden opportunity for GP to emand extra days going right through June! Reason - to allow you guys to race horses.

Kill off Calder once and for all. As a player, I now favor this - if Calder wants to damage the game, I want to damage Calder. They just got added to my boycott forever list.

SA, GP, Crc, CD - deserve no support from players, imho.

If I remember correctly, they tried to cannabalize Calder's big day several years ago when the esteemed Bill Murphy and Mike Mullaney were in charge. They have (to the best of my knowledge) deregulated dates that allow them to make decisions on their own and then deal with horsemen later.


ETA:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49871/gulfstream-takes-pass-on-longer-meet

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/48689/gulfstream-seeking-more-dates

[CryingForTheHorses]

Where, instead, will they stable and train them ... and why haven't they been there all along anyway?

I dont understand what you are saying?...Horses can ship north of go to training centers..2 months is a long time to wait when you have a large stable

[the little guy]

If I remember correctly, they tried to cannabalize Calder's big day several years ago when the esteemed Bill Murphy and Mike Mullaney were in charge. They have (to the best of my knowledge) deregulated dates that allow them to make decisions on their own and then deal with horsemen later.


Please, leave Mike Mullaney's name out of this. That's just ridiculous.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Please, leave Mike Mullaney's name out of this. That's just ridiculous.

I thought he was part of the team Andy. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

[the little guy]

I thought he was part of the team Andy. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

He worked at Gulfstream. So did a lot of people. I have a lot of trouble believing he was involved in making that kind of call.

[Mineshaft]

what idiots.


i would get the TB condition book out and start searching if thats all you can do.

How about the horseman boycott the entry box once Calder starts?

[johnhannibalsmith]

He worked at Gulfstream. So did a lot of people. I have a lot of trouble believing he was involved in making that kind of call.

I didn't mean to imply that he was responsible, I understand the confusion. Prior to linking the article, I had no real timeframe to deliver with specificity and since the two worked together at that particular time and were among the most visible, recognizable names, I tried to put in a context (the names) that would clarify it. That's all.

[lamboguy]

i really understand the whole problem here and i can't blame calder for it. they decided last year to focus more on 2 year old races. they let you bring as many 2 year olds into the place even if you didn't race them there. they wound up with a real stellar successful meet. now the horses that raced and trained at calder wound up running in gulfstream and other places. they didn't mind that, what they do mind is losing their own dates to the guys that benefit from their work.the deal worked out real good this year, as you can see the gulfstream meet is great. the system works right now, why would anyone want to change it? i am sure if calder keeps their dates then they will have no problem with horses training there and running in gulfstream while they are closed

[Marlin]

Competition is abundant in Florida. GP and Calder are hardly friends. If GP (whoever worked there) made a decision to try and bully Calder and their big day, good for them. Why would one take that as criticism? Calder obviously feels that their stall popularity merits this new stance. I don't blame them either. If you're stabled at Calder, they want you to race and be ready day 1 at Calder. They haven't said you can't race at GP, just don't do it from here. Calder probably should have just charged stall rent for shippers instead of expulsion, but thats their call. You can argue, correctly I feel, this decision warranted an earlier announcement. But the business makes sense in my mind.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Can they do this legally?

This sound to me - not that I like it - a golden opportunity for GP to emand extra days going right through June! Reason - to allow you guys to race horses.




This sounds like an opportunity for Hialeah to run with the ball
with a perfectly placed thoroughbred meet in the very near future.

If done properly the Calder horsemen may never return.

[Tom]

This sounds like an opportunity for Hialeah to run with the ball
with a perfectly placed thoroughbred meet in the very near future.

If done properly the Calder horsemen may never return.


Bingo!

Hialeah over Calder any day.
This is an attack on horse players - it cannot be tolerated. Calder must die.
Next boycott!

[Marlin]

Bingo!

Hialeah over Calder any day.
This is an attack on horse players - it cannot be tolerated. Calder must die.
Next boycott!How is this an attack on horseplayers? This an attack on Gulfstream. Calder is attempting to offer fuller fields by keeping their barn area at their racetrack. I see it as Calder attempting to offer a better product which I thought was beneficial to horseplayers. Now Gulfstream could potentially struggle to offer a premium product, but how is that Calder's responsibility? Don't get me wrong. Calder isn't thinking about the horseplayer. They are thinking about hurting Gulftream. But again, how is Gulfstream's product Calder's responsibility?

[Tom]

This attacking us because it will restrict entries at GP now.

* * *

Just thought of another ? for Tom.....can you ship to any OTHER tracks, or just GP?

[Marlin]

I'd like to know what it would take to get written permission to go to GP. I'd like to hope Calder management would be fair in this regard. Assuming Calder's first condition book will be or is available, if there is no race for a specific horse, would said animal be allowed to ship to GP? Or if there is a race available the first couple of weeks, would Calder allow them to ship to GP with assurances from the trainer that said horse would still participate in the given race?

[CryingForTheHorses]

This attacking us because it will restrict entries at GP now.

* * *

Just thought of another ? for Tom.....can you ship to any OTHER tracks, or just GP?

I did ask about Tampa and was told they would have an answer for me in a couple of days.Tampa has nothing to do with this dispute.I have raced mainly at Tampa this winter and I am hoping to be able to continue.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I'd like to know what it would take to get written permission to go to GP. I'd like to hope Calder management would be fair in this regard. Assuming Calder's first condition book will be or is available, if there is no race for a specific horse, would said animal be allowed to ship to GP? Or if there is a race available the first couple of weeks, would Calder allow them to ship to GP with assurances from the trainer that said horse would still participate in the given race?


Calders meet is still almost 2 months away..No condition book out yet.The RS at Calder give the nay or yah if we can race at GP or Tampa..Sad thing is WE have no place to go so they got us by the short and curlies

[Robert Goren]

Two racimo fighting over racing days. This has got be a first. I predict it won't be long before both come to their senses and start trying give away their days. Neither of these guys makes money from their racing. It is all about pride now. Money always wins out over pride in the long run among business people.

[mistergee]

even with tampa as an option, their entry box will be overflowing

[CryingForTheHorses]

Just came back from a meeting for the horseman hosted by Calder managment.Told us how they are improving backside by all the repairs blah blah blah..Then came the bomb.As of sat feb 26,No horses will be allowed to race at GP except for stake races.They are telling us that we will have to have special permission to get the horse back on the grounds.Calder meet starts Apr 25.Tampa is still being discussed.Damn..Horseman are going to starve.This came as a total surprise to us horseman but its all because of GP trying to get more winter dates.Calder tells us it will race 4 days a week until nov and the 3 days a week until the following April.I understand Calder has to take some kind of stand but using the horseman as pawns isnt fair.We didnt even get a heads up on what this meeting was about.Owners are going to pull their horses off the grounds and leave a lot of people out of work.God help us as we are going to need it


The flipside of the coin is that Calder is the only racetrack in Florida that stays open all year round.The cost of this is 2 million a year plus.Calder needs to protect its horses if its to survive if GP gets the dates they want.Myself I could give a rats ass if I raced at GP.Tampa is nice when Calder ends.Calder has been good for me,ALL the racing staff are great and Mike Anafantis is a wonderful RS and man.I may not win many with my horses but I am a Calder guy and I will go with the flow.

[Tom]

All Calder wants in return is to run your life and restrict your business.
Nice people.

[Kelso]

I dont understand what you are saying?...Horses can ship north of go to training centers..2 months is a long time to wait when you have a large stable
You wrote that owners would take their horses from Calder, with the result being lost jobs. I simply asked where they would take their horses.

If it would be to someplace close to Calder, then it shouldn't be much trouble for the jobs to follow the stock.

If, on the other hand, there is no place close by ... meaning close to either CRC or GPX ... then it seems to me the owners should be extremely grateful to Calder for providing them a place to stable and train their horses, even if it limits them to racing at Calder's track. They should be expected to "dance with them what brung um," particularly since the track is the only one paying the band.

(Either way, I don't have a dog in this fight. I regard CRC meets as chronic chalk-fests, so I haven't played the track the past few years.)

[PaceAdvantage]

Racetracks all around the country strong-arm trainers, especially when it comes to your smaller operations.

It only makes sense when you think about it...they have given you stall space with the expectation that you are going to run at their track...if you ship out to run elsewhere, do you think they are going to be happy as they struggle to fill their cards?

There are policies similar to this at many different tracks around the country, so I'm not quite sure if this is worthy of the outrage we are seeing in this thread. Just because it usually isn't talked about doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Being told your horse isn't allowed back on the grounds if you ship out without permission from the stewards or the racing office isn't as uncommon as one might think.

[RXB]

I wondered several years ago how long it would take for this fight to happen for real. Obviously GP covets those December dates-- dry weather, no Churchill, NYRA's annually worsening inner track season, minimal eastern grass course competition, so there's plenty of opportunity for a major Florida session that month.

Once Kee opens, GP's product and handle drops off so I think that they'd consider offering most of their April dates to Crc as some kind of olive branch. Of course Crc takes the worst of that exchange but can they win a battle with GP? Questionable.

[Mineshaft]

If theres any training centers around Calder im thinking they are becoming more valuable as we speak.

[garyscpa]

If theres any training centers around Calder im thinking they are becoming more valuable as we speak.

Hmm. Free rent or pay when there are few vacancies. I can't make up my mind.

[Mineshaft]

Hmm. Free rent or pay when there are few vacancies. I can't make up my mind.






when horseman run there horses at GP and cant get back in at Calder and they lose there stall then training centers become valuable even though you have to pay stall rent there. Because some trainers will run there horses at GP.

[lamboguy]

the way that stronach has it set up for palm meadows is that he charges rent for stalls, and gives most of it back after you run your horse in his race track

[Mineshaft]

my comment was some trainers will run there horses at GP and will need alternate housing for these horses and thats where training centers come into play. You can bet yesterday and today hundreds of phone calls will be made to training centers to see if theres availibility and if there is then they will be entering at GP.

[onefast99]

When an individuals livliehood is at stake and there is no proof that Calder will be harmed financially by horses running at Gulfstream, as they have been in the past, this will be an easy decision for a judge. Based on the premise that Calder is using the horseman as a bargaining chip won't sit well with a judge either. This could get real ugly.

[MickJ26]

Just wondering if a track like Philadelphia is an option for you. They run year 'round, offer competitive purses, and in the summertime you're about a two hour van ride from about a dozen tracks.

[onefast99]

Just wondering if a track like Philadelphia is an option for you. They run year 'round, offer competitive purses, and in the summertime you're about a two hour van ride from about a dozen tracks.
I don't think it is for those who breed Fl breds as the additional purse monies added into those fl bred races by the FTBOA makes it worthwhile staying in Florida. Also the Parx stable area is full so they would need to go to a training center like West Hampton(Mt Holly NJ) and pay a day rate which can become very costly.

[Fingal]

they obviously have no brain

There's a reason why people should be careful about ultimatums-

Act with short sighted agendas & you may get the answer you didn't want.

[magwell]

Some times you get what you want and then don't want what you get.....:cool:

[RXB]

http://www.drf.com/news/gulfstream-amends-racing-dates-request-promises-stall-space-calder-shippers

GP trying to accommodate Crc shippers, while also poking finger into the collective eye of Churchill Downs Inc. bosses by amending proposed 2011 opening date from Dec 2 to Nov 26-- which I believe is CD's closing day.

Edit: closing weekend but not closing day; CD's last day is Nov 27.

[onefast99]

http://www.drf.com/news/gulfstream-amends-racing-dates-request-promises-stall-space-calder-shippers

GP trying to accommodate Crc shippers, while also poking finger into the collective eye of Churchill Downs Inc. bosses by amending proposed 2011 opening date from Dec 2 to Nov 26-- which I believe is CD's closing day.

Edit: closing weekend but not closing day; CD's last day is Nov 27.
Frank will not lose this fight, bet on it!

[RXB]

I agree; I'm sure he'll have the backing of the horsemen and probably the Fla racing commission. From an industry standpoint, it makes total sense for GP to run in December and Crc in April rather than the other way around. Don't see CDI coming out best in this bun toss.

I expect that once things are ironed out, GP will go back to its original plan of an early Dec start date.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I just got off the phone with Calders Asst RS and he has informed me that we will be able to race at Tampa..Yippee!

[onefast99]

I just got off the phone with Calders Asst RS and he has informed me that we will be able to race at Tampa..Yippee!
That just makes Calder look even worse, why allow Tampa and not GP? Because they think in the long run it will hurt GP and it will only end up hurting Calder. GP is making room for horses and so is Palm Meadows according to a statement released by Tim Ritvo.

[onefast99]

I just got off the phone with Calders Asst RS and he has informed me that we will be able to race at Tampa..Yippee!
Ask the rs if they are covering the shipping costs.

[CryingForTheHorses]

That just makes Calder look even worse, why allow Tampa and not GP? Because they think in the long run it will hurt GP and it will only end up hurting Calder. GP is making room for horses and so is Palm Meadows according to a statement released by Tim Ritvo.

Amazing how fast GP can come up with stalls for the horseman. I know several trainers who have tried to get into GP and were told they didnt have stalls..Im wondering if Palm Meadows is going to let the horseman stay free..I think not!
Doesnt make Calder look bad trying to protect their meet horses..Calder has never had a problem with Tampa.Calder gets the horses that stay after the tampa meet..In this business you have to do what you have to do to survive.Nobody pays your horse shipping down south to race.If you really think about it,Calder/gulfstream does the horseman a service shipping to and from their tracks. I cant see why this makes Calder look bad..GP would drive a stake into Calder in a heartbeat..Calder caters their backside year round to the horseman.They need something in rreturn for thei investment.

[RXB]

GP would drive a stake into Calder in a heartbeat.

I doubt that, at least for now. There's no incentive for Magna to finish off Crc unless slots are permitted in Palm Beach County; then maybe Magna could try to squeeze dates out of Crc in order to rake in some slots money while running a gaming-subsidized meet at Palm Meadows.

I can't imagine that Magna would want year-round racing at GP. Wanting the best dates, which are December through March, makes perfect sense.

[point given]

I doubt that, at least for now. There's no incentive for Magna to finish off Crc unless slots are permitted in Palm Beach County; then maybe Magna could try to squeeze dates out of Crc in order to rake in some slots money while running a gaming-subsidized meet at Palm Meadows.

I can't imagine that Magna would want year-round racing at GP. Wanting the best dates, which are December through March, makes perfect sense.

Negatory on a Palm Meadows meet as it would never pass muster with the local community as they already found out.

[matthewsiv]

Point Given is a 100% correct.

Magna will never get racing at Palm Meadows.

But I personally hope that they bury Calder.

Churchill Downs are a disgrace,putting trainers in a impossible position yet again as they did with the FHBPA over the purses and the loss of the signal going to other tracks.

The quality and quantity of racing has gone down ever since and prize money.

They now want to run cheap races for as few a days as possible just so they can have slots and a casino.

Horse racing does not matter anymore.

[Kelso]

When an individuals livliehood is at stake and there is no proof that Calder will be harmed financially by horses running at Gulfstream, as they have been in the past, this will be an easy decision for a judge. Based on the premise that Calder is using the horseman as a bargaining chip won't sit well with a judge either. This could get real ugly.Tracks can throw jocks and trainers off the grounds at will ... why not horses, too?

[RXB]

Point Given is a 100% correct.

Magna will never get racing at Palm Meadows.

But I personally hope that they bury Calder.


It would not be in Magna's best interests to bury Calder.

[Tom]

RXB...totally agree.
As bad as Magna is, bury that 4th rate excuse of a track.:ThmbUp:

[onefast99]

Tracks can throw jocks and trainers off the grounds at will ... why not horses, too?
Throwing a trainer or jock off the track for good reason has nothing to do with the bad move Calder is making right now which really doesn't affect Calder at all financially because they aren't in direct competition racing date wise with GP as of yet. Now if they came out and said the horseman cannot go to GP when there is racing going on at both tracks that is a different story and one I would accept. And what is the difference going to Tampa or GP? Calder is using the horseman as hostages, its that simple.

[onefast99]

Amazing how fast GP can come up with stalls for the horseman. I know several trainers who have tried to get into GP and were told they didnt have stalls..Im wondering if Palm Meadows is going to let the horseman stay free..I think not!
Doesnt make Calder look bad trying to protect their meet horses..Calder has never had a problem with Tampa.Calder gets the horses that stay after the tampa meet..In this business you have to do what you have to do to survive.Nobody pays your horse shipping down south to race.If you really think about it,Calder/gulfstream does the horseman a service shipping to and from their tracks. I cant see why this makes Calder look bad..GP would drive a stake into Calder in a heartbeat..Calder caters their backside year round to the horseman.They need something in rreturn for thei investment.
There will be no charge for the horseman to use Palm Meadows but they cannot stable there until the OBS at Palm Meadows sale concludes on March 3rd. The GP stables that will be used are make-shift tent style stables.

[matthewsiv]

Why?

They are open all year around.

Better casino.

Better facilities.

Much safer area than Miramar.

If Timmy Ritvo can get Stronach to put a new surface in with better drainage then they could race all year around.

Floodlight it as well and race Friday night,Saturday and Sunday .

[onefast99]

Why?

They are open all year around.

Better casino.

Better facilities.

Much safer area than Miramar.

If Timmy Ritvo can get Stronach to put a new surface in with better drainage then they could race all year around.

Floodlight it as well and race Friday night,Saturday and Sunday .
Not a bad idea!

[PaceAdvantage]

I find it pretty interesting that my reply in this thread went completely ignored. Just to add to what I wrote, here is what it says at the bottom of an actual NYRA overnight I had lying around the house:

Attention horsemen: Any horse that runs out of town without permission from the racing secretary will not be allowed back on the grounds. NO EXCEPTIONS.Thus, I must once again express my surprise about the reaction to this move by Calder, for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread.

[mistergee]

how easy is it to get permission form NYRA?

[Charli125]

I find it pretty interesting that my reply in this thread went completely ignored. Just to add to what I wrote, here is what it says at the bottom of an actual NYRA overnight I had lying around the house:

Thus, I must once again express my surprise about the reaction to this move by Calder, for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread.

Exactly. This isn't some earth shattering thing. This is standard across most tracks. Calder offers free stabling, why would they do that if it doesn't help their field size?

I don't get the uproar.

[onefast99]

I find it pretty interesting that my reply in this thread went completely ignored. Just to add to what I wrote, here is what it says at the bottom of an actual NYRA overnight I had lying around the house:

Thus, I must once again express my surprise about the reaction to this move by Calder, for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread.
I wonder how many times people were denied permission. I think it is lightly enforced.

[onefast99]

Exactly. This isn't some earth shattering thing. This is standard across most tracks. Calder offers free stabling, why would they do that if it doesn't help their field size?

I don't get the uproar.
There is no competition right now, GP and Tampa are running. Once again if there happens to be a time when both GP and Calder run simultaneously then yes Calder has to protect their field sizes and investment into the stabling of those horses by not allowing Calder horses to run at GP. Can anyone answer this one question, what is the financial harm to Calder right now? Because once the lawyers start getting paid that will be the question the judge would want answered before wasting everyones time and money!

[wizard_of_odds]

There will be no charge for the horseman to use Palm Meadows but they cannot stable there until the OBS at Palm Meadows sale concludes on March 3rd. The GP stables that will be used are make-shift tent style stables.

This sounds to me like GP is scrambling to insure horses for their meet and the Stronach noose is starting to tighten around Ritvos neck..Yeah Ritvo is doing a hell of a job..First he is buddies with the head of the FHBPA Sam Gordon gets in like stink,Gets hired by Stronach and all of a sudden they have the date dispute.Ritvo may think he has a lot of friends at Calder but I dont see him getting many pats on the back for this.He was even at the end of the year Calder dinner solicting the horseman for the upcoming meet.Stonach is a wackjob and now they hire another.Ritvo tells the horseman not to be afraid of running..I bet you wont see him here paying the wages for the people that did go against the Calder rule.Horseman that live here year round are going to support Calder.They have to make a living.Stronach ruined GP,Has ruined several other tracks,Has gone bankrupt and is a bully.Those who fail get fired quickly..Who the hell wants to drive to Palm Meadows 90 mins from Calder and then them dictate that you have to buy their beeding and feed.The big outfits at Calder may run a few but the majority of horseman will run at Tampa. Sure shipping may cost a little but they will protect the integrity of Calder

[Tom]

Exactly. This isn't some earth shattering thing. This is standard across most tracks. Calder offers free stabling, why would they do that if it doesn't help their field size?

I don't get the uproar.

They are not offering any racing tight now, and now they want to limit the availability of horses at other tracks. I don't care if it is the norm, it doesn't help the players, it hurts them by limiting the number of horse available to run.
They are allowing ships to Tampa but not GP - that is clearly an attack on GP, so I say, GP, kill them little basterds. If we are going to have track wars, let's back the big boys and dump the little crap tracks like Calder. Let's see how they do if they go head to head with GP.

[tubesockshakur]

I find it pretty interesting that my reply in this thread went completely ignored. Just to add to what I wrote, here is what it says at the bottom of an actual NYRA overnight I had lying around the house:

Thus, I must once again express my surprise about the reaction to this move by Calder, for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread.
where is this from.....N.Y

[CryingForTheHorses]

They are not offering any racing tight now, and now they want to limit the availability of horses at other tracks. I don't care if it is the norm, it doesn't help the players, it hurts them by limiting the number of horse available to run.
They are allowing ships to Tampa but not GP - that is clearly an attack on GP, so I say, GP, kill them little basterds. If we are going to have track wars, let's back the big boys and dump the little crap tracks like Calder. Let's see how they do if they go head to head with GP.

No they are not offering racing right now..Spending almost 6 million a year to house the horseman. I think they have a right to counterattack. Tampa has never tried to hurt Calder so why include them.

[Tom]

Uppity tracks need to be put in their place. GP does stuff that helps players. Calder doesn't. Let GP run any dates they want and see who survives.

I may even lift my boycott of GP to show support for them.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Uppity tracks need to be put in their place. GP does stuff that helps players. Calder doesn't. Let GP run any dates they want and see who survives.

I may even lift my boycott of GP to show support for them.

Uppity tracks??..I guess GP takes the cake.They are the ones that started this whole thing..Your boycott of GP doesnt sound so sincere the way you are defending them.How does GP help players?..Players help themselves on the way they want to bet.I have heard MANY negative comments about GP this and GP that.That doesnt sound like helping to me.Just because your the "Monkey man" doesnt mean your right.

[onefast99]

No they are not offering racing right now..Spending almost 6 million a year to house the horseman. I think they have a right to counterattack. Tampa has never tried to hurt Calder so why include them.
They choose to pay the stabling costs that doesn't entitle them to dictate where a horse can race or not race, they have a right to tell the horseman you cannot race at GP if and when they are racing on the same exact days as Calder. If you allow them to dictate where and when you can race a horse eventually the owners will place their horses with trainers that won't stand for this nonsense.

[onefast99]

Uppity tracks??..I guess GP takes the cake.They are the ones that started this whole thing..Your boycott of GP doesnt sound so sincere the way you are defending them.How does GP help players?..Players help themselves on the way they want to bet.I have heard MANY negative comments about GP this and GP that.That doesnt sound like helping to me.Just because your the "Monkey man" doesnt mean your right.
Calder will do what it thinks is right to keep their product to themselves, no one has an issue with that, the issue is that there is no head to head competition with GP at this moment and Calder acted prematurely and created hysteria amongst the Calder horseman. If you think for one second Calder did the right thing then you did drink the kool-aid.

[Southieboy]

Gulfstream Park announced Thursday that it intends to apply for year-round racing, beginning July 1 and continuing through June 30, 2012.

Frank Stronach, chairman and CEO of MI Developments, was at Gulfstream on Thursday to announce the planned year-round schedule. He also said that Gulfstream will construct 500 additional stalls to accommodate horsemen that wish to stable at the track year-round.

“In the final analysis, horsemen will pick their spot, stable and race at the track at which they feel more comfortable,” Stronach said.

http://www.drf.com/news/gulfstream-apply-year-round-racing

[grimm7]

Race tracks wars Florida style. Both have lost there minds. If they can't come to some sensable solution let them both go under. The racing game does everything to hurts itself.

[karlskorner]

From the Miami Herald today "Hialeah Park blames other race tracks for its finiancial problems".

Hialeah Park blames a "conspiracy" involvinig Flager Dog Track and Calder Race Course. Hialeah Park wants the two competitors to pay "millions" of dollars in damages for violating the state's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. Suit alleges Calder used backrooom deal-making against Hialeah Park.

Hialeah Park denies its new suit is retribution flor Calder and Flager's attempts to keep Hialeah from obaining slots.

Should be an interesting summer.

[onefast99]

Race tracks wars Florida style. Both have lost there minds. If they can't come to some sensable solution let them both go under. The racing game does everything to hurts itself.
Stronach won't lose.

[matthewsiv]

No they are not offering racing right now..Spending almost 6 million a year to house the horseman. I think they have a right to counterattack. Tampa has never tried to hurt Calder so why include them.

I guess that you are happy that you run for less money than you did 4 years ago,but the costs have gone up.

God Bless you,you are obviously very happy at Calder and giving your owners a chance to run their horses elsewhere is not your priority.

But Calder has done nobody any favors.

What would happen if NYRA took the same attitude?

Horses would never move.

I understand that you stay here all year around and good on you.

But if you let Calder tell you where you can and cannot run,you might as well let them tell you how to train your horses and how many races you may win.

[toussaud]

Gulfstream Park announced Thursday that it intends to apply for year-round racing, beginning July 1 and continuing through June 30, 2012.

Frank Stronach, chairman and CEO of MI Developments, was at Gulfstream on Thursday to announce the planned year-round schedule. He also said that Gulfstream will construct 500 additional stalls to accommodate horsemen that wish to stable at the track year-round.

“In the final analysis, horsemen will pick their spot, stable and race at the track at which they feel more comfortable,” Stronach said.

http://www.drf.com/news/gulfstream-apply-year-round-racing
I seriously thought this was a joke until I clicked on the link. You have got to be kidding me.

[magwell]

I seriously thought this was a joke until I clicked on the link. You have got to be kidding me. The funny part of this whole thing Gulfstream could race year around, just run at night in the summer time and between adding stalls at the track and the stalls at palm meadows, calder would be in big trouble.

[Marlin]

The funny part of this whole thing Gulfstream could race year around, just run at night in the summer time and between adding stalls at the track and the stalls at palm meadows, calder would be in big trouble.The most transparent BLUFF in the history of bluffs. I wish poker was this easy.

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess I'm seriously missing something in this discussion. Either that, or my mic isn't on....

[PaceAdvantage]

What would happen if NYRA took the same attitude?You mean they don't?

Attention horsemen: Any horse that runs out of town without permission from the racing secretary will not be allowed back on the grounds. NO EXCEPTIONS.The above is taken directly from a NYRA overnight sheet...how is this much different than Calder's "dropped bomb?"

[Marlin]

You mean they don't?

The above is taken directly from a NYRA overnight sheet...how is this much different than Calder's "dropped bomb?"I'm not as familiar with NYRA racing as I am with Miami. I'm not certain of the logistics in New York. However, the difference would be the term "overnight sheet". Calder has no overnight. They have no racing.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not as familiar with NYRA racing as I am with Miami. I'm not certain of the logistics in New York. However, the difference would be the term "overnight sheet". Calder has no overnight. They have no racing.I'm not quite sure where the huge difference is, racing or no racing.

They're still horses and they're still sitting in their stalls, and their connections are being told basically where they can and can't race without permission...

[Marlin]

So you're saying this policy will not be in effect when they start racing in April?No, the policy will most likely still be in place. As it should be. If one is stabled at the track they should participate in the track's program. If you abuse your privledges you suffer the consequences. I understand NYRA's policy. I wouldn't want all of my horses going to Monmouth for example. I wouldn't describe this as a bomb dropping. The motive here is sound.

Calder isn't currently racing. They allow their trainers to train and race at GP while they are down. Suddenly after years of status quo you institue this policy while you are closed and expect compliance within a week. That's the bomb dropping in my mind.

And those that say Frank won't lose. Yes he will. Calder horsemen live and raise families in Miami. They will not risk their current position.

Edit: I see your edit PA. The difference is one horse can race the other can't.

[toussaud]

I am pretty dang sure that when Monmouth was holding their "elite meet" saratoga let more than a few people know on certain terms, that they would not be allowed to come back if they went and raced there.


Could gulfstream pull off year round racing? The thing that makes GP GP is that it's in the winter and everyone comes down but what happens when Belmont opens back up and the summer. Then Gulfstream park and calder are both running races with 5 horses in them like everyone else.

[toussaud]

The irony of this all is that if they did do this, they would split the horse population in half, and deem both tracks really unplayable because of piss poor field size and everyone loses.

[Marlin]

The irony of this all is that if they did do this, they would split the horse population in half, and deem both tracks really unplayable because of piss poor field size and everyone loses.I don't think the population will be an even split. Calder will retain the majority of horses. This is their life. Take the horseman who started this thread. He originally was quite angry and lashed out at Calder. As the thread progresses and as he deliberates, he comes to the realization he needs Calder. He now jabs Gulfstream while sticking up for Calder. Take him and times it by 200. They won't go anywhere.

[Kelso]

Throwing a trainer or jock off the track for good reason has nothing to do with the bad move Calder is making right now which really doesn't affect Calder at all financiallyWasn't addressing whether the move is good or bad for Calder; or whether there will be a financial effect. I spoke, rather, to your legal opinion that a judge will have no problem finding against the track. I think you're wrong.

[RXB]

Uppity tracks??..I guess GP takes the cake.They are the ones that started this whole thing.

GP is making a sensible business decision for itself, and in this case a switching of dates would be the best outcome for the industry as a whole. December is prime time for a major meet in Florida-- and GP is the major track, not Crc.

GP should host racing in December, and Crc in April once Kee starts. Right now it's backwards, and the fact that Crc benefits from this backward state doesn't make GP the black hat or Crc the white hat in this fight.

[takeout]

Gulfstream Announces Plan to Race Year-Round
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61561/gulfstream-announces-plan-to-race-year-round?source=rss

[snip]
Ritvo said Gulfstream is adding stalls and preparing to run year-round because Stronach “believes in free enterprise.”
[snip]

Comment: What a hoot. That’s rich! :D

[onefast99]

Wasn't addressing whether the move is good or bad for Calder; or whether there will be a financial effect. I spoke, rather, to your legal opinion that a judge will have no problem finding against the track. I think you're wrong.
And that is why we have the judicial system to argue the law. In essence Calder is limiting the right of competition. That in itself may violate part of the anti-trust laws.

[grimm7]

What's Frank win? Small fields and lousy racing. After Florida Derby no one cares about Gulfstream until winter months come.

[FenceBored]

And that is why we have the judicial system to argue the law. In essence Calder is limiting the right of competition. That in itself may violate part of the anti-trust laws.

If a mall restricts the type of merchandise a retailer leasing store space from it can sell (e.g. no pornography), that's violating anti-trust laws?

[onefast99]

If a mall restricts the type of merchandise a retailer leasing store space from it can sell (e.g. no pornography), that's violating anti-trust laws?
Not even close, a mall can restrict similar products being sold by vendors to attract more vendors. As far as selling pornography that may violate certain city or state ordinances. Calder is restricting the horseman from being able to enter races at nearby Gulfstream Park but according to Tom Shell they may race at Tampa which is 3 hours away.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Gulfstream Announces Plan to Race Year-Round
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61561/gulfstream-announces-plan-to-race-year-round?source=rss

[snip]
Ritvo said Gulfstream is adding stalls and preparing to run year-round because Stronach “believes in free enterprise.”
[snip]

Comment: What a hoot. That’s rich! :D

Gulfstreams backside and track will never hold up to the monsoon season.When it pours in the winter months you have to worry about the canceling races.The backside floods into the stalls making a huge mess.The so called tents that they want to put up will be hotter then hell and if a hurricane comes bye bye tents.Calder isnt telling the horseman they cant run.They just dont want you to run from their premises.

[toussaud]

I don't think the population will be an even split. Calder will etain the majority of horses. This is their life. Take the horseman who started this thread. He originally was quite angry and lashed out at Calder. As the thread progresses and as he deliberates, he comes to the realization he needs Calder. He now jabs Gulfstream while sticking up for Calder. Take him and times it by 200. They won't go anywhere.

If Calder is sticking to it's 3 day meet year round format they proposed, and gulfstream is going to run 5 or even 4 days a week year round, with more money, I assure you that there will be defections. even if you are correct in them needing calder, if the events in Monmouth, Florida, and California have proven anything it's that horseman as a collective whole are extremely short sighted, and will take the quick money at gulfstream.


Then, Calder is going to have to do something to keep the people there. the first thing they will do is squash the 3 day format. So now, you have bad racing, along with even shorter fields becuase you are racing 4 days a week instead of 3, with less horses than you raced with last year, and last year your field sizes weren't just spectacular or anything.

[CryingForTheHorses]

No, the policy will most likely still be in place. As it should be. If one is stabled at the track they should participate in the track's program. If you abuse your privledges you suffer the consequences. I understand NYRA's policy. I wouldn't want all of my horses going to Monmouth for example. I wouldn't describe this as a bomb dropping. The motive here is sound.

Calder isn't currently racing. They allow their trainers to train and race at GP while they are down. Suddenly after years of status quo you institue this policy while you are closed and expect compliance within a week. That's the bomb dropping in my mind.

And those that say Frank won't lose. Yes he will. Calder horsemen live and raise families in Miami. They will not risk their current position.

Edit: I see your edit PA. The difference is one horse can race the other can't.


Thankyou Marlin...Well said :ThmbUp:

[FenceBored]

Not even close, a mall can restrict similar products being sold by vendors to attract more vendors. As far as selling pornography that may violate certain city or state ordinances.

But, but, but... they're limiting my ability to earn money. ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST.


Calder is restricting the horseman from being able to enter races at nearby Gulfstream Park but according to Tom Shell they may race at Tampa which is 3 hours away.


Tampa, at 250+ miles away, is not the same kind of threat to Calder (even if they overlapped Calder's schedule more significantly), so they don't get treated the same. :eek:

[onefast99]

But, but, but... they're limiting my ability to earn money. ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST.





Tampa, at 250+ miles away, is not the same kind of threat to Calder (even if they overlapped Calder's schedule more significantly), so they don't get treated the same. :eek:
What are you talking about? Calder is telling the horseman(per Tom)that it is ok to race at Tampa but not GP. Calder now decides in the middle of GP's racing meet that the horses stabled at Calder can't race at GP anymore, you see that as being ok? Where is the financial harm to Calder right now? Who has the most to lose the horseman or Calder, oh that's right there is no racing going on at Calder so I guess the horseman are the ones that lose and the bettors end up handicapping smaller fields at GP and then next year they both end up with smaller fields until one gives in. Yes it all makes a lot of business sense.

[Tom]

So GP should come out say any trainer/owner who races any horse at Calder cannot race at GP or SA for one year.

[onefast99]

But, but, but... they're limiting my ability to earn money. ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST.

When you sign up for a mall lease and in the lease agreement it states that you cannot sell a certain product due to another vendor selling that product it is known upfront by all parties and not in violation of the anti-trust or fair competition acts. What Calder did was change the rules in mid-stream without any prior notice. And yes that limits ones ability to earn money.

[matthewsiv]

Gulfstreams backside and track will never hold up to the monsoon season.When it pours in the winter months you have to worry about the canceling races.The backside floods into the stalls making a huge mess.The so called tents that they want to put up will be hotter then hell and if a hurricane comes bye bye tents.Calder isnt telling the horseman they cant run.They just dont want you to run from their premises.

Yes,they are telling them they cannot run and this is confirmed in the Paulick Report.

You know and I know that.

Calder always hit you with the heavy stick.

[FenceBored]

What are you talking about? Calder is telling the horseman(per Tom)that it is ok to race at Tampa but not GP. Calder now decides in the middle of GP's racing meet that the horses stabled at Calder can't race at GP anymore, you see that as being ok? Where is the financial harm to Calder right now? Who has the most to lose the horseman or Calder, oh that's right there is no racing going on at Calder so I guess the horseman are the ones that lose and the bettors end up handicapping smaller fields at GP and then next year they both end up with smaller fields until one gives in. Yes it all makes a lot of business sense.

What are you talking about? Calder is giving the horsemen something of value (stall space) for free. When Gulfstream decides it's going to make a play for Calder's dates which would harm Calder's business Calder tells the horsemen stabled there that those who are benefitting from their gift of free stall space can't use those gifts to help enrich those who are trying to harm Calder's business. So long as Gulfstream wasn't playing hardball, Calder was being generous.

Heck, Stronach charges stall rent at Palm Meadows while his own track is running.

Let's see what trainers said about that:

“Stall rent is going up $2 a day on top of the $2 increase we paid last year,” said Rick Violette ...

Violette said the increased costs puts Palm Meadow-based trainers at a disadvantage when racing against those stabled at Gulfstream Park and Calder who do not incur daily stall rent.

“We’re all racing for the same purses but owners with horses stabled at Palm Meadows must pay nearly $20 a day more in expenses,” said Violette.
-- http://www.drf.com/news/dwoskin-would-prefer-hang-high-level-jeff

Now, maybe Calder could have given horsemen the option of free stall rental and no GP, or pay stall rental and have the ability to run at GP, but that's just me.

[FenceBored]

But, but, but... they're limiting my ability to earn money. ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST, ANTI-TRUST.

When you sign up for a mall lease and in the lease agreement it states that you cannot sell a certain product due to another vendor selling that product it is known upfront by all parties and not in violation of the anti-trust or fair competition acts. What Calder did was change the rules in mid-stream without any prior notice. And yes that limits ones ability to earn money.

Fine, they changed the rules. That doesn't make it a anti-trust violation. :rolleyes:

[onefast99]

Fine, they changed the rules. That doesn't make it a anti-trust violation. :rolleyes:
Once it gets to a courtroom which it will you will hear anti-trust mentioned. I do agree with you on Calder charging for stable space and that would give a horseman the option of staying or going.

[startngate]

What are you talking about? Calder is giving the horsemen something of value (stall space) for free. When Gulfstream decides it's going to make a play for Calder's dates which would harm Calder's business Calder tells the horsemen stabled there that those who are benefitting from their gift of free stall space can't use those gifts to help enrich those who are trying to harm Calder's business. So long as Gulfstream wasn't playing hardball, Calder was being generous.
Somebody gets it. As others have mentioned, Calder is not unique in this case. Many tracks pressure their horsemen to run at the facility where they are stabled precisely because they are giving the horsemen free room and board, with the expectation they will not use the place as a free training center and run elsewhere.

Once it gets to a courtroom which it will you will hear anti-trust mentioned.
They can claim anti-trust all they want. Calder is private property, and as such can elect to exclude anyone for pretty much any reason. This has been held up in numerous court cases relating to people on the grounds of racecourses all over the US. Not to mention, horsemen are free to go to an off-site location and run at both places. Also, please keep in mind Calder did not say that those horses that shipped to start at Gulfstream couldn't run at Calder, just that they wouldn't be allowed to be stabled there. Big difference.

[RXB]

Compromise solution: GP starts Dec 16 instead of Dec 2, keeps its end date at the initially proposed Apr 1 (pre-Keeneland). There would be benefits for GP, Crc and the FHBPA.

Shipping from points north would be more complete and northern horses would have more time to acclimatize. That would help to ensure that GP could start its meet with a bang rather than a whimper.

It also makes the redistribution of dates more even. Crc takes over three weeks in April, GP gets 2.5 - 3 weeks extra in Dec/early Jan. Crc gets to keep the first half of December, which is more lucrative than most of its dates.

The horsemen get the major meet with the larger purses and superior grass course extended into a period where it makes sense to have it.

That's my proposal. Feel free to discuss.

[toussaud]

I don't think the population will be an even split. Calder will retain the majority of horses. This is their life. Take the horseman who started this thread. He originally was quite angry and lashed out at Calder. As the thread progresses and as he deliberates, he comes to the realization he needs Calder. He now jabs Gulfstream while sticking up for Calder. Take him and times it by 200. They won't go anywhere.
“I have received phone calls from more than 25 trainers in just the past few hours asking about relocating and stabling here at Gulfstream,” Ritvo said. “Our preliminary plan is to run twice a week, but that will increase depending on the horse population. We want to level the playing field for horsemen so they can decide where to stable and where to race.” http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/02/24/gulfstream-to-race-year-round.aspx


seems you might have overestimated the overall loyalty to calder.

Also this little tidbit at the bottom of the article
Steve Calabro, Gulfstream’s president and general manager, said the track will welcome all horsemen and will allow them to race at any facility they choose while stabled at Gulfstream.

[onefast99]

Somebody gets it. As others have mentioned, Calder is not unique in this case. Many tracks pressure their horsemen to run at the facility where they are stabled precisely because they are giving the horsemen free room and board, with the expectation they will not use the place as a free training center and run elsewhere.

The one major point you are missing is that there is no racing right now at Calder. Many of the other tracks that attempt to keep horses running there that are stabled there and not use it as a training facility only have a meet going on, or have several different facilities where racing is currently going on like Aqueduct and Belmont. Calder is unique in the way they served notice to the horseman.

[FenceBored]

Somebody gets it. As others have mentioned, Calder is not unique in this case. Many tracks pressure their horsemen to run at the facility where they are stabled precisely because they are giving the horsemen free room and board, with the expectation they will not use the place as a free training center and run elsewhere.

The one major point you are missing is that there is no racing right now at Calder. Many of the other tracks that attempt to keep horses running there that are stabled there and not use it as a training facility only have a meet going on, or have several different facilities where racing is currently going on like Aqueduct and Belmont. Calder is unique in the way they served notice to the horseman.

What could Calder be charging trainers for stall space during their dark period? Let's use $10/day to make things easy. For a 10 horse operation that's $100/day $3k/month. Multiply that by let's say 40 trainers and that's $120k/month in revenue that Calder has been foregoing. In my hypothetical they're giving up close to $500k for the period while Gulfstream's running. Maybe they felt that was the price of keeping South Florida racing running smoothly and they've been paying it. At the same time, it sounds like Magna is charging >$15/day for stalls at Palm Meadows. So, Magna is raking in at least $750k from that same number of horses if they are stabled at Palm Meadows. Magna has been profiting ($750k) by not being accomodating (charging for their own off-site stabling), Calder's been losing money (-$500k) by being accomodating (allowing trainers to use their facility as free off-site stabling for Gulfstream), and you're mad at whom?

[Marlin]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/02/24/gulfstream-to-race-year-round.aspx


seems you might have overestimated the overall loyalty to calder.

Also this little tidbit at the bottom of the articleI've had phone calls from 25 female swimsuit models in the last 24 hours wanting to relocate to my bedroom. We are only going to do it twice a week at first. After that we might have to do it more because of all the beautiful women in my bedroom.

You believe that?:)

[toussaud]

It's possible I suppose. Though I will admit 25 is a pretty nice round number.

[Marlin]

My biggest question is who is going to work this year round meet? Larry Collmus is going to call two days a week and give up Monmouth? Jessica Pacheco not coming back to Arlington? Racing Secretary Dan Bork not doing Churchill? This is just three high profile employees. What about everybody else that goes north for the summer? Sure it's possible. There are probably people who are willing to do it. However looking at the PPs, Frank hasn't been about raising pay. The motto seems to have been "cut, cut, cut".

[toussaud]

just hire dick grunder full time, problem solved.

[Marlin]

just hire dick grunder full time, problem solved.Nope. He goes north too. He's out.

[onefast99]

What could Calder be charging trainers for stall space during their dark period? Let's use $10/day to make things easy. For a 10 horse operation that's $100/day $3k/month. Multiply that by let's say 40 trainers and that's $120k/month in revenue that Calder has been foregoing. In my hypothetical they're giving up close to $500k for the period while Gulfstream's running. Maybe they felt that was the price of keeping South Florida racing running smoothly and they've been paying it. At the same time, it sounds like Magna is charging >$15/day for stalls at Palm Meadows. So, Magna is raking in at least $750k from that same number of horses if they are stabled at Palm Meadows. Magna has been profiting ($750k) by not being accomodating (charging for their own off-site stabling), Calder's been losing money (-$500k) by being accomodating (allowing trainers to use their facility as free off-site stabling for Gulfstream), and you're mad at whom?
Calder is getting monies from the simulcast signal and from the FHBPA to offset the stabling costs . You cannot compare GP or PM to Calder as far as the barn areas go, it would be like comparing the Westin Diplomat to Motel 6.

[onefast99]

I've had phone calls from 25 female swimsuit models in the last 24 hours wanting to relocate to my bedroom. We are only going to do it twice a week at first. After that we might have to do it more because of all the beautiful women in my bedroom.

You believe that?:)
Maybe Calder Casino wants out of the racing biz?

[wizard_of_odds]

Calder is getting monies from the simulcast signal and from the FHBPA to offset the stabling costs . You cannot compare GP or PM to Calder as far as the barn areas go, it would be like comparing the Westin Diplomat to Motel 6.

Please enlighten me and tell me just how much the FHBPA gives to the Calder Backside to offset the costs.Doesnt matter what money CDI gets to offset the backside cost as they are still paying the 5.830.00.00 yearly expense.
Insulting remarks like above doesnt sit well with me.Calder was built in the 70's so thats why it is the way it is.

[onefast99]

Please enlighten me and tell me just how much the FHBPA gives to the Calder Backside to offset the costs.Doesnt matter what money CDI gets to offset the backside cost as they are still paying the 5.830.00.00 yearly expense.
Insulting remarks like above doesnt sit well with me.Calder was built in the 70's so thats why it is the way it is.
The comment was meant for those horseman who would rather stay at Calder as opposed to going to PM or GP where the backside facilities are superior. I will try to find out how much of the backside cost is offset.

[CryingForTheHorses]

There has been great banter on this thread and Ive come to this conclusion.
Horseman are going to race their horses no matter what.The big guys that have owners with big money dont need to worry about repercussions.

[toussaud]

But the problem is, there aren't alot of "big guys" in Florida in the middle of September. Florida for 9 months a year is a very meat and potatoes type of circuit.

[FenceBored]

I find it pretty interesting that my reply in this thread went completely ignored. Just to add to what I wrote, here is what it says at the bottom of an actual NYRA overnight I had lying around the house:

QUOTE: Attention horsemen: Any horse that runs out of town without permission from the racing secretary will not be allowed back on the grounds. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Thus, I must once again express my surprise about the reaction to this move by Calder, for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread.

Hey, take these lines from the Gulfstream stall application:

Stalls on GULFSTREAM PARK premises are offered solely as an accommodation to owners or trainers that race exclusively at race meetings conducted by GULFSTREAM PARK. (emphasis added)

and
Any owner or trainer may enter a horse stabled on GULFSTREAM PARK premises at another track only with the prior written consent of GULFSTREAM PARK.
-- http://www.gulfstreampark.com/racing/horsemen/stall-application
How do these contractual terms square with this comment:

“Mr. Stronach believes that Calder is holding its horsemen hostage,” Ritvo said. “Horses stabled at Gulfstream will never be prohibited from racing at the other venue (Calder).”
Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61561/gulfstream-announces-plan-to-race-year-round#ixzz1F4Za7L6n

[CryingForTheHorses]

10:50am this morning I got a call from Calders Race office informing me that the Ban has been lifted.I dont know any more details

[toussaud]

interesting

[Ocala Mike]

Don't worry, fellas, Gene Stevens is running for FHBPA!

http://tracktimestoday.net/Blog/


Florida racing is saved!

[RXB]

A little digging can unearth things you never knew about.

I won't get into all of the particulars but it's not just a racing dates issue, per se, and it's not just a GP vs. Crc issue. It also has to do with intertrack and intrastate wagering-- who hosts it, who gets the lion's share of the revenue. GP wants to open earlier than Tampa because of this.

And yes, the ban on Crc-stabled horses shipping to GP has been lifted.

[FenceBored]

A little digging can unearth things you never knew about.

I won't get into all of the particulars but it's not just a racing dates issue, per se, and it's not just a GP vs. Crc issue. It also has to do with intertrack and intrastate wagering-- who hosts it, who gets the lion's share of the revenue. GP wants to open earlier than Tampa because of this.

And yes, the ban on Crc-stabled horses shipping to GP has been lifted.

Just a guess, but are you saying that when Calder closes Tampa, by virtue of their meet already being in progress, takes over as the 'host track' in Florida for simulcast purposes (with all the revenue benefits that entails)? And therefore, when Gulfstream is angling for the earlier December start, it's not just to grab more of the snowbird season, but also to leapfrog Tampa and be the 'host?'

[RXB]

Just a guess, but are you saying that when Calder closes Tampa, by virtue of their meet already being in progress, takes over as the 'host track' in Florida for simulcast purposes (with all the revenue benefits that entails)? And therefore, when Gulfstream is angling for the earlier December start, it's not just to grab more of the snowbird season, but also to leapfrog Tampa and be the 'host?'

That's not quite how it works; there's no queue. Tampa can host right from its opening day, not from when Crc closes.

But it is indeed partially about GP (and Crc, to a lesser extent) having a better chance of getting a bigger piece of the simulcast revenue pie. Being able to offer a relatively seamless hosting schedule plays into it, apparently.

[toussaud]

if gp opens earlier than tampa, which is already too early imho, i would be eating off the mc d's breakfast menu while playing GP. heck tampa misses it by 30 minutes.

[cj]

if gp opens earlier than tampa, which is already too early imho, i would be eating off the mc d's breakfast menu while playing GP. heck tampa misses it by 30 minutes.

I believe they mean earlier on the calendar, not earlier on the clock.

[Tom]

A little digging can unearth things you never knew about.

I won't get into all of the particulars but it's not just a racing dates issue, per se, and it's not just a GP vs. Crc issue. It also has to do with intertrack and intrastate wagering-- who hosts it, who gets the lion's share of the revenue. GP wants to open earlier than Tampa because of this.

And yes, the ban on Crc-stabled horses shipping to GP has been lifted.

Disccussion about this on ATR with Byk Thursday - hour 1 or 2...not sure which.

[Shelby]

Article in the DRF

http://www.drf.com/news/calder-drops-restrictions-will-allow-horses-return-after-racing-gulfstream

Calder Race course late Saturday morning lifted the restrictions it had imposed earlier this week on horses stabled in its barn area that ship to race at Gulfstream Park. The announcement came after five Calder-based trainers had scratched their horses out of races on Saturday’s program at Gulfstream. “We know this has been a confusing time for the horsemen who participate in the racing programs at both Calder and Gulfstream Park and we are returning to our normal stable area ship-in policies so we can avoid impacting their operational routines,” said John Marshall, vice president and general manager at Calder. “Calder wants what’s best for south Florida racing. We continue to look at our racing schedule for the coming year and as in prior years we will do what’s right for the south Florida racing community, including Calder, its horsemen, and racing fans.”

[Tom]

We continue to look at our racing schedule for the coming year and as in prior years we will do what’s right for the south Florida racing community, including Calder, its horsemen, and racing fans.”



Pu-leeeze....the racing fans never enter into it. What BS.:ThmbDown:

[matthewsiv]

Maybe,some sense at last.

But believe me watch this space.

Because Churchill Downs will only pull more stunts on the horseman.

The least being drop in daily and stakes purses through out the year and reduced racing schedule.

The two tracks running at the same time would have been the end of racing in Miami.

[matthewsiv]

Don't worry, fellas, Gene Stevens is running for FHBPA!

http://tracktimestoday.net/Blog/


Florida racing is saved!

This would kill Florida racing

[matthewsiv]

The answer is Calder should run April to November for 3 or 4 days a week and Gulfstream Park from November to April.

Nobody with any money in their pocket wants to go to Miramar.

[magwell]

The answer is Calder should run April to November for 3 or 4 days a week and Gulfstream Park from November to April.

Nobody with any money in their pocket wants to go to Miramar. Yes and that's the way it will be when the smoke clears, from the way it looks right now. Gulfstream called their bluff, Calder needs to race at night in the summer time that's the bottom line.......:cool: