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View Full Version : DRF/Bris or other, what is your choice?


craigbraddick
02-21-2011, 01:48 PM
As much as I would like to support a national newspaper for the sport, the DRF is just too expensive for my tastes on a daily basis.

I have become a big fan of BRIS and primarily use that for my handicapping. However, I much prefer to have a program in hand, so I still print it out, killing a couple of rain forests per year! But I use TS replays a lot too.

Was just wondering what other posters used and whether they print or have gone entirely to looking at PDF's when handicapping.

Thx

Craig

Johnny V
02-21-2011, 02:47 PM
I use the DRF virtually every racing day for many years. I got tired of the unreliability of the delivery of the paper DRF and reluctantly switched to BRIS. The DRF price was not an issue for me because the copies were comped for me for a period of time but the price definitely would be an issue for me if that was not the case. I now use BRIS almost exclusively and I am quite satisfied with their pp's and would not go back to the DRF pp's.
I used to print the pp's but have recently started handicapping directly from the computer vice printouts since most of my betting at this time is now done via ADW.

duncan04
02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
Used to use the DRF all the time. The rising cost and the fact that thru Twinspires I can get free BRIS Ultimate PP's caused me to make the switch. When i go to the track, I print out the tracks I want to play and make a small win or show bet to make them free and then go to the track.

takeout
02-21-2011, 04:52 PM
BRIS (kicked over from TSN)

Still printing but trying to break the habit. (Only playing one track.)

JustRalph
02-21-2011, 05:05 PM
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78743

Craig check out this thread

The latter part is germane to your quest

craigbraddick
02-21-2011, 05:21 PM
Thanks, Ralph. Best reason to get an Ipad I have seen!

Craig

windoor
02-21-2011, 05:29 PM
I can get the Bris Premium PP's for free at Twinspires, but still buy and download them form Post Time Daily. I have been using them since 1996.

I like the filters they offer as it makes it very easy for me to handicap multiple cards in a very short time.

Regards,

Windoor

Zman179
02-21-2011, 06:43 PM
Thanks, Ralph. Best reason to get an Ipad I have seen!

Craig

I had purchased a Notebook to download pp's and bring them to the track. Did it for a while then realized that I way preferred having a set of printed pp's between my filthy mits. One of the reasons was because I couldn't write and make circles, underlines and other notes on the pp's.

If you just like looking at the pp's and making mental notes, then an iPad, Notebook, etc. is without a doubt the way to go.
If you like to make notes on the pp's, then use the computer and use a pad of paper for your notes.
If you like to really mark up your pp's, then stick to printing them out or buying the hard copy.

point given
02-21-2011, 10:48 PM
I had purchased a Notebook to download pp's and bring them to the track. Did it for a while then realized that I way preferred having a set of printed pp's between my filthy mits. One of the reasons was because I couldn't write and make circles, underlines and other notes on the pp's.

If you just like looking at the pp's and making mental notes, then an iPad, Notebook, etc. is without a doubt the way to go.
If you like to make notes on the pp's, then use the computer and use a pad of paper for your notes.
If you like to really mark up your pp's, then stick to printing them out or buying the hard copy.

Ditto - you nailed it.

appistappis
02-21-2011, 11:12 PM
I still use a DRF and an orange highliter.

JustRalph
02-22-2011, 01:13 AM
recently I found this app

http://www.pdfannotator.com/indexg.php?ref=adwords&campaign=anotate&adgroup=pdf-annotation&ad=048&gclid=CJvv1-OHm6cCFUmo4AodVVpPeg

free thirty day trial works pretty well.........

I like it........it works well on Windows Desktop .........

Sericm
02-22-2011, 02:30 AM
I had purchased a Notebook to download pp's and bring them to the track. Did it for a while then realized that I way preferred having a set of printed pp's between my filthy mits. One of the reasons was because I couldn't write and make circles, underlines and other notes on the pp's.

If you just like looking at the pp's and making mental notes, then an iPad, Notebook, etc. is without a doubt the way to go.
If you like to make notes on the pp's, then use the computer and use a pad of paper for your notes.
If you like to really mark up your pp's, then stick to printing them out or buying the hard copy.

Go to PDF Viewer X Change, it is free and you can insert notes, mark up your PDF PP. They have a typewriter tool and mark up tools plus everything else you need and it is absolutely free.

Coleman
02-22-2011, 02:46 AM
If you have a Mac, open the PDFs in Preview, and you have two annotation options; you can put red circles or ovals around anything, or insert text boxes anywhere and type whatever you want. The annotations are savable.

Also there are free apps that allow you to remove pages and combine pages, which to me is incredibly useful.

Dahoss2002
02-22-2011, 03:56 AM
BRIS (kicked over from TSN)

Still printing but trying to break the habit. (Only playing one track.)
Me too. I print them if I'm going to handicap at work on break.

Canarsie
02-22-2011, 08:40 AM
I hope Brisnet doesn't start making the PP's a secure document like the DRF (Quick Sheets)has. If that's the case those programs won't work unless you use something to crack the security properties of the document.

Grits
02-22-2011, 09:08 AM
For years, have printed the Bris sheets. Sometimes, I tire of the printing. As far as the paper, I can go in my office and bring a box of that home any time. What gets to me more, is the ink. I have two printers, one is laser, the other is a an inkjet with a scanner, etc. The laser is much faster, of course, but the cartridges, and particularly for the laser have gone through the roof in price. Its the biggest ripoff in the country. Horribly so.

Wish I was one who could just make notes from viewing a screen download, and walk to the window, but I'm not. I like them printed, and in my hands for the day.

I like the DRF, too. But they won't bring the thing into the 21st century. I don't do so good getting that filthy in an afternoon. Hands black as smut by the 3rd race, and wearing it on my clothes before day's end.:lol:

Tom
02-22-2011, 10:29 AM
I'm buying laser ink cartridges on line for a good discount.
I also flip over the pages and use them again the next day to save paper.
Works as long as I don't start using the wrong side.

I gave up on DRF except for big stakes days with foreign horses - to get the RP ratings. Otherwise, I use BRIS and run it through PaceFigures and use the exports for the BRIS PPS. That is for eye-balling the PPS.

I use the HTR reports on the monitor for betting, with the print out there for reference, but HTR PPs are available, too, several different formats.

DRF priced themselves out of my market. Why pay twice what you need to?

Johnny V
02-22-2011, 10:55 AM
If you have a Mac, open the PDFs in Preview, and you have two annotation options; you can put red circles or ovals around anything, or insert text boxes anywhere and type whatever you want. The annotations are savable.

Also there are free apps that allow you to remove pages and combine pages, which to me is incredibly useful.
Thank you for that helpful info.

A. Pineda
02-22-2011, 12:00 PM
As a trip handicapper I've only needed the DRF for the basic info, and I only print the races that I'll play. I thoroughly enjoy scribbling all over the pages. Have a good deal on ink cartridges, too - only $4.84 at Amazon.

With the money I've saved on ink I've been able to add a new color to my pen inventory - aquamarine, for those runners which always look like dark horses but are really just money burners, and I'll be under water if I play them one more time.

Fingal
02-22-2011, 12:03 PM
I do the same thing, print on other side ( save on paper ) & use a laser printer
( cheaper overall)

For pps I use Bris $1 single file down loads. I can run them through several programs, find my contenders & then print only those with the FREE Bris custom pp software with its various filters.

Bris has speed & pace patterns that the Beyers don't show. And with the DRF I ended up paying for stories & tracks I don't care about. Sure one can't beat that tactile feel of a DRF. But not at the current price with less info.

mountainman
02-22-2011, 12:11 PM
DRF traditionalist here who uses formulator not for the tweakable trainer stats-I keep a private database on Mnr conditioners-but because I can annotate the pp's with my own trip and bias notes, not to mention whatever else might be insightful or entertaining about a race and thus worth relating to viewers. I also find the chart and replay features useful. For me, formulator pp's are a godsend when I'm pressed for time and can't cram for the show.

My other resource is the Incompass system we employ as officials to manage most racing -related operations. Incompass enables me to surf through charts and lifetime records absolutely free and in a fraction of the time similar research would take on a traditional handicapping service. Within 15 seconds on Incompass, a horse's entire history unfolds. It's always been my secret weapon as an analyst.

craigbraddick
02-22-2011, 01:00 PM
DRF traditionalist here who uses formulator not for the tweakable trainer stats-I keep a private database on Mnr conditioners-but because I can annotate the pp's with my own trip and bias notes, not to mention whatever else might be insightful or entertaining about a race and thus worth relating to viewers. I also find the chart and replay features useful. For me, formulator pp's are a godsend when I'm pressed for time and can't cram for the show.

My other resource is the Incompass system we employ as officials to manage most racing -related operations. Incompass enables me to surf through charts and lifetime records absolutely free and in a fraction of the time similar research would take on a traditional handicapping service. Within 15 seconds on Incompass, a horse's entire history unfolds. It's always been my secret weapon as an analyst.

I love to use Incompass when I am working at a track! I am in an ongoing experiment with formulator at the moment and am learning some tricks.

Craig

Track Collector
02-22-2011, 01:13 PM
I play virtually every day, and my choice of data is the DRF. (For what I do, I believe the data is just a little bit more accurate than BRIS.). I use the Formulator file and export the info for use in a home-grown handicapping program. Since the basis of my handicapping is the output of the handicapping program, I have no need to print the DRF. I do occasionally look at the PDF version of the DRF on my laptop when I'm making "action" bets while visiting an Off Track Wagering site or attending a live race meet.

Mineshaft
02-22-2011, 01:16 PM
DRF for me

mountainman
02-22-2011, 01:50 PM
I love to use Incompass when I am working at a track! I am in an ongoing experiment with formulator at the moment and am learning some tricks.

Craig

I'd give up my first born before sacrificing my access to Incompass.

mountainman
02-22-2011, 01:55 PM
What kills me-and I mentioned this in my latest blog- is when a national handicapping champ who beforehand described himself as a drf loyalist changes colors and endorses brisnet. How bogus is THAT??? It's happened several times, too.

Light
02-22-2011, 01:56 PM
I would really like to see a match up (proposed below) of the different PP's just to see if one is really better than another. For years, several people here, especially those selling programs here,have said that HDW is the state of the art for the industry. But there has never been any proof offered even when asked of the person making the claim. Like the DRF,I think it is overpriced and overrated,but then I don't have proof of that either.

I propose an experiment/contest between Bris,DRF and HDW (any other types are welcome) to see which PP performs better over a 100 race test. A specific pace line would be chosen after the running of a race regarding the winner.This makes it easier to figure out the proper PL. The printed speed ratings and pace figs (if available) from that PL is all that's needed from the different PP's. We could do a point system such as 3(win),2(place) and 1(show). I'm a Bris man so I'll volunteer that PP. This would be done in the selections area. Any takers?

PS: All the horses in each race would have have to get a specific PL chosen and displayed.

toetoe
02-22-2011, 03:06 PM
I propose an experiment/contest between Bris,DRF and HDW (any other types are welcome) to see which PP performs better over a 100 race test.




I have two finalists in mind for the almighty arbiter:

1) Stanley Bavlish;

2) Herman Miller.



I ask you. Who wants it more ?!?

Light
02-22-2011, 05:42 PM
Good point in that Bris has claimed the vast majority of NHC winners with DRF second and HDW third.

therussmeister
02-22-2011, 09:03 PM
I use DRF because in the 50 or so days I've tried to use any other PPs I haven't been able to achieve the state of mind psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi refers to as flow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29) . Without flow I'm merely average, and it's no fun.

What I can't figure out is why the downloaded form is so expensive - not compared to BRIS, but compared to the printed form. Last Friday I bought the printed form and got 7 tracks for $4.50, or I could have downloaded 3 tracks for $5.95, plus the cost of printing.

1GCFAN
02-22-2011, 10:52 PM
I am comfortable with the large pages in the over the counter DRF. Have used BRIS in the past and it was ok, but I hate the printing. Not one to stare at a screen to determine my bet.

thaskalos
02-22-2011, 11:09 PM
I am comfortable with the large pages in the over the counter DRF. Have used BRIS in the past and it was ok, but I hate the printing. Not one to stare at a screen to determine my bet.I wholeheartedly agree.

The large pages of the "old" DRF are ideal for the many pace figures and other notations that I like to make in the past performances.

When you handicap daily, and like to spend a lot of time with the PPs, nothing beats lying on the couch with the DRF...while using a quality pen, which keeps writing even when it's in an inverted position. :)

ldiatone
02-23-2011, 02:33 AM
trackmaster pp's

netbet
02-23-2011, 12:02 PM
I love using DRF Formulator Web.

I do use the BRIS files for some tracks but will always use DRF Formulator for the tracks I follow on a daily basis.

I usually handicap using the web interface but I do generate a PDF file for record keeping.

I am using Adobe Reader X and it allows you to write comments and highlight information so I can handicap right on to the PDF.


Does anyone have a good recommendation on a color laser printer?

Thanks.
Patrick

GaryG
02-23-2011, 04:44 PM
I print the Formulator PP's but keep the file open on the screen. I can handicap from the hard copy and go back to the screen to develop trainer stats or look at the replays. It is very convenient to be able to upload your own trip/trouble comments and have them when you need them. This product is just superior to anything BRIS has to offer.

bobbyt62
02-24-2011, 01:46 AM
35 posts and no mention of the biggest issue for me between bris and drf ( those are the only two in my game)---the "LOOK". the bris stuff just sorta' looks all the same on a page, but my eyes/brain LOVE "the form" .fonts, typefaces, sizes, spaces, i'm not a student of graphic design (that's what graphic design is, right) so i can't be specific, but i can say this. i only get bris pp's if/when they're free. if i have to pay, i would/will only get the form---newspaper or online and print them out. if i were a full time horse player, i'd absolutely not flinch for a minute and pay $1250 year for unlimited formulator---playing only 5 days a week, thats less than $5/day. if you're a pace guy, i can see the form not being attractive to you, but for anyone else, formulator is unreal----basically every horse, every trainer, every running line, every chart. every every! my trouble is i'm only a saturday sunday player, but they don't sell unlimited 2 day a week access for 28% of the $1250---you gotta pay for all 7 days per week. HUGE vote for form, largely along graphic design (?) lines...

takeout
02-24-2011, 04:29 AM
my trouble is i'm only a saturday sunday player, but they don't sell unlimited 2 day a week access for 28% of the $1250---you gotta pay for all 7 days per week.The Racing Form has always been like that. All these different owners later and they’re still like that. Back when they had a monopoly they used to sell me a paper with several tracks in it when I only wanted one. That mentality not only continues at the Form but seems to have permeated just about all businesses these days. They all try to lock you into some never-ending revenue stream for themselves and bundle up stuff to charge you for things you never wanted in the first place.

I just recently saw a post on another board where a guy was saying that he wanted it so he could buy individual races instead of a whole card. He said he tried the custom card thing at BRIS but they charged him for a bunch of individual cards. Oops!

I think he has a good point. Why can’t we buy just the races we’re interested in? Why won’t the Formulator boys sell you 2 cards a week if that’s what you want? You would think they would want to accommodate any potential life-long customers that they could, whether they are part-timers or whatever. After all, some of those part-timers are going to turn into full-timers. I guess DRF doesn’t think that way.

Casino
02-24-2011, 01:03 PM
The Racing Form has always been like that. All these different owners later and they’re still like that. Back when they had a monopoly they used to sell me a paper with several tracks in it when I only wanted one. That mentality not only continues at the Form but seems to have permeated just about all businesses these days. They all try to lock you into some never-ending revenue stream for themselves and bundle up stuff to charge you for things you never wanted in the first place.

I just recently saw a post on another board where a guy was saying that he wanted it so he could buy individual races instead of a whole card. He said he tried the custom card thing at BRIS but they charged him for a bunch of individual cards. Oops!

I think he has a good point. Why can’t we buy just the races we’re interested in? Why won’t the Formulator boys sell you 2 cards a week if that’s what you want? You would think they would want to accommodate any potential life-long customers that they could, whether they are part-timers or whatever. After all, some of those part-timers are going to turn into full-timers. I guess DRF doesn’t think that way.

Im looking forward to drf's card creator,maybe we wont have to buy the racecard,make our own racecard.
Does anyone know when card creator will make its debut?

The Bit
02-24-2011, 03:04 PM
I like the look of the Form also. However, the availability of it, or lack of, and the prices I have to pay where it is available is getting to be a bit much.

Very few places in southern NJ carry it, and those that do get one or two and they charge you over $8.00 after they Sharpie over the price like they are foolin' ya. Otherwise, I have to drive into Philly or over to Harrahs Chester were the price is normal but only after paying a 4 dollar bridge toll and $10 in gas.

I liked the orginal Formulator, but the more recent version/versions caused havoc with my comp. I use an older desktop for all things horse racing. I store all my charts, PP's, files etc. on this computer. The newer versions of Formulator, especially once it went to the web, basically didn't function on here. Anytime I tried to do a trainer look up it would freeze for 5 minutes or so. Lookin' up charts wasn't very easy either. I would love to make better use of the Formulator, but I'm not going to buy a new computer to do so.

ronsmac
02-24-2011, 07:13 PM
I prefer the form, but they really need to do something about the price. It's really a matter of principle, not a matter of being able to afford it.

fmolf
02-24-2011, 07:45 PM
for me its bris.......I need to have a tangible readable page in my hands to physically mark up! Doing so on the computer does not feel like handicapping to me.I like the fact that bris gives many different ratings and after years of use i have had success with them.Everybody hates the printing i print one tracks card double sided and punch holes to put pp's in a binder to bring to the track.I play two tracks at a time but sometimes play at night as well so i like the fact that bris has a max charge per day for unlimited pp's.....I also use trackmaster platinum when i go into a slump,just to change things up...it works i usually break out of it, from looking at the different information they provide.

thelyingthief
02-25-2011, 04:12 AM
I retain the handicapping I have done in large notebooks, with a copy of the analysis printout (velocity ratings, etc.), the form with markups, and a chart of the result.

This allows me to evaluate my previous season(s) work, stimulates research, and so forth.

I really would not recommend the computer based thing, since you're dealing with a lot of tools that can be of service, yes, but too often get in the way at critical moments...

my two cents.

tlt-