Pimlico's new Slider wager

[InTheRiver68]

Pimlico announced a new bet, the Slider, starting with opening day at Pimlico (April 1, no foolin').

First race (of the bet, not necessarily the first race of the day), pick the winner.
Second race, pick the exacta.
Third race, pick the triple.
Fourth race, pick the superfecta.

50 cent minimum, 18% takeout, not an exchange bet (all bets go on one ticket). Any ticket with a scratched horse is a refund.

Probably Amtote-only tracks; sounds like the programming would be complicated, worse than the Gulfstream Rainbow 6.

Sounds like they're going to sweeten it with a $100,000 jackpot.

Comment?

-InTheRiver68

[Shelby]

I think it sounds fun!

[The_Knight_Sky]

18% takeout




Why do all great ideas have to be sabotaged with takeout rates set at 15% or higher?

Make a splash - 12% or lower.

The difficulty level is enormous and $100,000 jackpot seems like a horrid underlay.

[Beachbabe]

This has got "maximum carryover" written all over it.

[InTheRiver68]

This has got "maximum carryover" written all over it.
a la Rainbow 6?

Worth noting is that the last live day of racing at Pimlico this year is Preakness Day. If there's a monster carryover on that day, they stand to clean up!

-InTheRiver68

[cj's dad]

a la Rainbow 6?

Worth noting is that the last live day of racing at Pimlico this year is Preakness Day. If there's a monster carryover on that day, they stand to clean up!

-InTheRiver68

I'm pretty certain that this has been the case for more than a few years now.

[Fingal]

This has got "maximum carryover" written all over it.

Gulfstream, Pimlico....what do they have in common ?

Stronach.

Frank wants his " jackpot bets. " :rolleyes:

[Southieboy]

First race (of the bet, not necessarily the first race of the day), pick the winner.
Second race, pick the exacta.
Third race, pick the triple.
Fourth race, pick the superfecta.

Comment?

-InTheRiver68

Sounds like the backward (tougher) version of the Grand Slam.

Q: Who bets Pimico in April?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

No consolations. From the TT article:

"The combinations involved in the Slider wager are staggering. If each race averages eight betting interests then there are 252,887,040 available combinations, which is more than 964 times the available combinations available in a pick six sequence with eight betting interests or about the equivalent of a pick six with 25 betting interests in each race."

Seriously, I can't this attracting much play. Would you invest $1 on a 250 million to one shot that might have attract less than $10,000 a day to begin with? Even with the $100k guaranteed?

They need to give consolations for this to have at least a chance. Also, the probabilities go sky high if the last two wagers have more than 8 horses especially.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/02/15/slider-wager.aspx

[precocity]

sucker bet :sleeping:

[Cardus]

A slider is to be eaten, not wagered.

[Beachbabe]

Sounds like the backward (tougher) version of the Grand Slam.

Q: Who bets Pimico in April?


Moi !!! (but I wouldn't touch that bet.............and why is it called a "slider" )

[FenceBored]

And here I thought it was going to be a cross-promotional deal with White Castle.

[InTheRiver68]

No consolations. From the TT article:

"The combinations involved in the Slider wager are staggering. If each race averages eight betting interests then there are 252,887,040 available combinations, which is more than 964 times the available combinations available in a pick six sequence with eight betting interests or about the equivalent of a pick six with 25 betting interests in each race."

Seriously, I can't this attracting much play. Would you invest $1 on a 250 million to one shot that might have attract less than $10,000 a day to begin with? Even with the $100k guaranteed?

They need to give consolations for this to have at least a chance. Also, the probabilities go sky high if the last two wagers have more than 8 horses especially.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/02/15/slider-wager.aspx
Could have been much, much worse. The original jackpot bet they were considering was the Quad Superfecta.

-InTheRiver68

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I have to wonder if they did any polling of Horseplayers before they came up with this one. I do think it would be a different story if there was a 30-40% consolation payoff on new money who are lucky enough to pick the first three parts (150,000-1 assuming 8 horse races).
8*56*336

[castaway01]

I don't think "jackpot" bets are a bad idea to draw in the lottery crowd (and yes, I realize there are about 10 other promotional steps needed to get anyone to notice this bet, but the concept of such bets could draw in casual fans) but this one sounds virtually impossible to hit. Well, until the point where the jackpot is big enough and the fields small enough that someone just buys nearly all the combinations.

[The_Knight_Sky]

I don't think "jackpot" bets are a bad idea to draw in the lottery crowd (and yes, I realize there are about 10 other promotional steps needed to get anyone to notice this bet, but the concept of such bets could draw in casual fans) but this one sounds virtually impossible to hit.

Well, until the point where the jackpot is big enough and the fields small enough that someone just buys nearly all the combinations.

There's nothing wrong with trying to attract the lottery crowd.
But this, like the fledgling Super High Five is a bad wager.

Horse Racing is a game of skill.

And if newcomers are going to learn the game for the long haul,
they must be started off with the basic wagers: win-place-show
and displaying proficiency before attacking the more difficult and costly gimmick wagers.

That said. I am still waiting for a bold racetrack to make wps wagering fashionable again with a 10% flat takeout rate. By not doing so, every solid marketing ploy is futile.

[InTheRiver68]

I'm pretty certain that this has been the case for more than a few years now.
Nope. Up through 2008, they were racing live three weeks after Preakness, ending on Belmont Stakes Day. In 2009 and 2010, they raced live one week after Preakness. This is the first year that live racing will end on Preakness Day.

Honestly, if they're not going to race live through Belmont, ending on Preakness Day makes much more sense.

-InTheRiver68

[Beachbabe]

Sounds like the backward (tougher) version of the Grand Slam.

Q: Who bets Pimico in April?


Moi !!! (but I wouldn't touch that bet.............and why is it called a "slider" )


Hmmmm, maybe because it's harder to hit than a 90mph slider.

[cj]

Just another stupid idea that will only further dilute already shrinking pools.

[Stillriledup]

I think that they want the bet to go unhit, because that way, when you check equibase's 'carryover' section, this track will say, "PIMLICO SLIDER CARRYOVER 100k" or whatever its going to get up to by meets end.

Then, on the last day of the meet, when people realize its a mandatory payout, they'll sink a few hundred grand into this bet. So, the bet is probably geared for one day, the closing day of the meet. I guess the bet is going to end up being profitable, its really 'free' to implement and will end up generating a profit, even if they have to wait until closing day to get paid.

[cj's dad]

Pimlico announced a new bet, the Slider, starting with opening day at Pimlico (April 1, no foolin').

First race (of the bet, not necessarily the first race of the day), pick the winner.
Second race, pick the exacta.
Third race, pick the triple.
Fourth race, pick the superfecta.

50 cent minimum, 18% takeout, not an exchange bet (all bets go on one ticket). Any ticket with a scratched horse is a refund.



-InTheRiver68

So, if I'm reading this right, let's imagine that someone hits the first 3 races and now has the only live ticket to the last leg, the Super. In that race. on the live ticket he/she has selected a 4 horse boxed super and one of his selections is scratched. He/she gets a refund of the ticket price and not a cosolation payout. Why not get the favorite or next fave or next and so on until the ticket is playable, OR give the ticket holder the option of refund, consolation payout or live ticket ? Once again the player is not considered.

What if this scenario played out on the Thursday before the 2 big days. Lets assume it's in the tracks best interests to have a huge carryover for Black Eyed Susan day? Think there might be some pressure on the track vet to scratch one of the horses on the live ticket to create the carryover?

[Stillriledup]

So, if I'm reading this right, let's imagine that someone hits the first 3 races and now has the only live ticket to the last leg, the Super. In that race. on the live ticket he/she has selected a 4 horse boxed super and one of his selections is scratched. He/she gets a refund of the ticket price and not a cosolation payout. Why not get the favorite or next fave or next and so on until the ticket is playable, OR give the ticket holder the option of refund, consolation payout or live ticket ? Once again the player is not considered.

What if this scenario played out on the Thursday before the 2 big days. Lets assume it's in the tracks best interests to have a huge carryover for Black Eyed Susan day? Think there might be some pressure on the track vet to scratch one of the horses on the live ticket to create the carryover?

Excellent points.

If someone has successfully nailed the first 3 races, you can't just give them their money back with 2 mins to post for leg 4. There's gotta be a better way.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

A bet consisting of one horse to win, a boxed exactor, a boxed triactor and a boxed super will cost 1*2*6*24*50cents = $144
This is just one example.

[David-LV]

This may be up their with one of the worse ideas in pari-mutuel history even if the takeout was 0%.

Good luck to all the suckers that fall into this trap.

I don't even think you can calculate how high the odds against you are in hitting this type of a bet.

________
David-LV

[cj's dad]

A bet consisting of one horse to win, a boxed exactor, a boxed triactor and a boxed super will cost 1*2*6*24*50cents = $144
This is just one example.

Are you sure it's a multiplier wager or is it 4 distinct wagers on the same ticket, all of which must obviously win ?

My take is that at $1 the ticket would cost $1 + $2 + $6 + $24 = $33

Who in the heck is going to play a $.50 ticket that costs $144 with minimum selections ?

As a matter of fact, how many are going to wager $33 with such a low % of winning ?

[InTheRiver68]

This type of bet is a multiplier, but I don't see those specifics anywhere to verify that.

It would be just like the Grand Slam. If you pick two horses in each leg on a $1 ticket, it's 2x2x2x2=$16, not 2+2+2+2=$8.

-InTheRiver68

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Are you sure it's a multiplier wager or is it 4 distinct wagers on the same ticket, all of which must obviously win ?

My take is that at $1 the ticket would cost $1 + $2 + $6 + $24 = $33

Who in the heck is going to play a $.50 ticket that costs $144 with minimum selections ?

As a matter of fact, how many are going to wager $33 with such a low % of winning ?
It has to be the way I described it to cover combinations. Now you could always take a straight triactor straight super and straight exactor and spend only 50 cents, or keys etc. But you need to multiply and not add things in order to cover all the combos.

[InTheRiver68]

Link:

Thoroughbred Times (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/02/15/slider-wager.aspx)

-InTheRiver68

[Beachbabe]

252 million to 1 with 8 horse fields in all races. :confused: :ThmbDown:

[The_Knight_Sky]

This may be up their with one of the worse ideas in pari-mutuel history even if the takeout was 0%.

Good luck to all the suckers that fall into this trap.

I don't even think you can calculate how high the odds against you are in hitting this type of a bet.

________
David-LV





Looking closely at it....

This is another track idea that "ties you up" handicapping the multi-races
on the card (ala Pick 4). Lot of these tracks believe that you'll play the races that you have doped out in the wps-exacta-trifecta pools also, thereby bolstering the total handle

That's a terrible short-term marketing mentality! :ThmbDown:
The time has come for racetracks to do something for the vertical players who tend to pick their spots at various racetracks around the country.

These are the handicapping specialists who come in many shapes and sizes, and the last thing they want to do with their bankrolls is to force their wagers into races they're not good at.

[David-LV]

From the TT about this bet:

Quote.

"The combinations involved in the Slider wager are staggering. If each race averages eight betting interests then there are 252,887,040 available combinations, which is more than 964 times the available combinations available in a pick six sequence with eight betting interests or about the equivalent of a pick six with 25 betting interests in each race."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is not the biggest sucker bet in horse racing history then please somebody please post what is.


________
David-LV

[PhantomOnTour]

Pimlico announced a new bet, the Slider, starting with opening day at Pimlico (April 1, no foolin').

First race (of the bet, not necessarily the first race of the day), pick the winner.
Second race, pick the exacta.
Third race, pick the triple.
Fourth race, pick the superfecta.

50 cent minimum, 18% takeout, not an exchange bet (all bets go on one ticket). Any ticket with a scratched horse is a refund.

Probably Amtote-only tracks; sounds like the programming would be complicated, worse than the Gulfstream Rainbow 6.

Sounds like they're going to sweeten it with a $100,000 jackpot.

Comment?

-InTheRiver68
Surely they aren't letting the players choose whichever four race sequence they want...will this be the last four races of the day?
I don't even know why I'm asking because I ain't playing this thing...just curious.

[Stillriledup]

From the TT about this bet:

Quote.

"The combinations involved in the Slider wager are staggering. If each race averages eight betting interests then there are 252,887,040 available combinations, which is more than 964 times the available combinations available in a pick six sequence with eight betting interests or about the equivalent of a pick six with 25 betting interests in each race."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is not the biggest sucker bet in horse racing history then please somebody please post what is.


________
David-LV

It actually depends on how they card the races. Maryland circuits are known for short fields, if they stack 11 horse fields as the 4 races for this bet, than its the biggest sucker bet in the history of mankind. But, if they have their typical 5 horse fields, than you have some sort of a shot.....that is, if you actually know how to structure and call out (to a teller) your wagers in the first place.

[Twenty Seven]

I have to wonder if they did any polling of Horseplayers before they came up with this one. I do think it would be a different story if there was a 30-40% consolation payoff on new money who are lucky enough to pick the first three parts (150,000-1 assuming 8 horse races).
8*56*336

Stronach doesn't talk to people to get feedback, certainly not horseplayers. Frank knows best.:bang:

[PhantomOnTour]

Only Steve Carlton had a slider that was tougher to hit than this bet.
Who comes up with these gimmicks?

[point given]

This is one bet I'll leave on the table for whales along with the Super high five.

[OTM Al]

I don't feel the need to be critical about the creation of this bet nor blame them for not consulting with players, because it should be pretty clear that a bet like this isn't really meant for regular players. People complain that management needs to do things to attract back players that they lost to lotto games and that is exactly what this bet is. The hope is that maybe a few might become interested and start playing the "real" pools I would suspect.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I don't feel the need to be critical about the creation of this bet nor blame them for not consulting with players, because it should be pretty clear that a bet like this isn't really meant for regular players. People complain that management needs to do things to attract back players that they lost to lotto games and that is exactly what this bet is. The hope is that maybe a few might become interested and start playing the "real" pools I would suspect.
The ones you say this is for don't understand what a superfecta is, so I think you are giving Stronach waaaaaaaay too much credit.
He put this bet out for you and I to play. And it won't happen.

[OTM Al]

The ones you say this is for don't understand what a superfecta is, so I think you are giving Stronach waaaaaaaay too much credit.
He put this bet out for you and I to play. And it won't happen.

Oh yes, I forgot, management knows nothing. That stupid P6 at GP shouldn't have gotten any action either, but GP is cleaning up on it. And real players who should know better are playing the stupid thing as well.

Doesn't matter if "they" don't understand what a superfecta is. Show lotto players big dollar signs with a low minimum bet and they will play it. That's why it starts at $100,000. I don't honestly think it will work either, but more for the reason of the loss in popularity of Pimlico as a racing-gambling-destination site. I'm pretty sure Mr Stronach didn't come up with this idea as well, so you are the one giving him way too much credit.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Oh yes, I forgot, management knows nothing. That stupid P6 at GP shouldn't have gotten any action either, but GP is cleaning up on it. And real players who should know better are playing the stupid thing as well.

Doesn't matter if "they" don't understand what a superfecta is. Show lotto players big dollar signs with a low minimum bet and they will play it. That's why it starts at $100,000. I don't honestly think it will work either, but more for the reason of the loss in popularity of Pimlico as a racing-gambling-destination site. I'm pretty sure Mr Stronach didn't come up with this idea as well, so you are the one giving him way too much credit.
I was all for the GP bet and the Beulah bet. Slot players understand Win betting and pick 6's don't take brain surgeons to understand it.
Stronach got laughed at with his idea about picking consecutive supers in three or four races where the odds of winning were around equal to the stars in the universe.
He toned it down a bit to only a quarter of a billion to billions to one (depending on field size) with this new bet.

And yes, players should have been consulted before hatching a bet like this. Almost any business relies on market research before coming out with new products.

This one will only appeal to slot and lottery players if it gets over a few million, and I'm not about to build it to that. Do you know who will?

How this doesn't have a consolidation prize is evidence no potential player was asked. Without consolidation prizes there would be a lot less play in slots and lotteries.

[Zman179]

This is a bet in which you bet no more than $2 and hope it's your day.

[Gallop58]

The V75 seems like the current practical limit for lottery style exotics, no?
I think the advantage in Sweden though is you can get a slip at a local store and they have a "quick pick". I think they generally have large field size for all races, but don't know as I don't follow it. Anyone know the salient details of this bet (takeout, typical field size etc.)?

http://www.v75usa.com/

[Gallop58]

Ok so I could have googled a bit before posting:

Finlay article gives us field size:

"Unfortunately, the V75 concept probably wouldn't work in the U.S. There's not a U.S. track around that can guarantee six or seven races with 12 to 15-horse fields or anything close to that. The bane of the Pick Six's existence is the winning 3-5 shot in a six-horse field, something that happens all too often. And with the lottery so popular and so firmly entrenched in this country, it's hard to imagine non-racing fans lining up at the local 7-11 to play a Pick Seven rather than Powerball. "

Can't find takeout...

[Gallop58]

And a little more digging, though I don't know if it's official info:

http://www.rwwa.com.au/home/atg-rules.pdf

V75 = 35% Takeout...... Ouch

[Horseplayersbet.com]

And a little more digging, though I don't know if it's official info:

http://www.rwwa.com.au/home/atg-rules.pdf

V75 = 35% Takeout...... Ouch
Takeout on these bets might as well be at the higher limits. Winner's churn isn't quite what it is on show bets. Players are playing because of the takeout either.

[InTheRiver68]

V75 = 35% Takeout...... Ouch
Hey, that's better than your standard lottery takeout ... 50%.

-InTheRiver68

[toussaud]

For all these stupid freaking wagers they have, I simply want to be able to parlay one win wager to the next to the next, in a non consecutive race format. If I like the First at sanita Anita, the 3rd at sanita anita and the 7th at sanita Anita, I want to be able to make a 3 race win parlay on that. Make it happen frank. That would be a wager I would be all over.

[strapper]

Talk about creative wagers! I think this is a little much, though. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[toussaud]

Here is a wager idea.

on the same ticket, let me predict who will have the lead at the first call, who will have the lead at the lead at the half mile mark, and who will have the lead at the end of the race. That would be a neat wager

[InTheRiver68]

Update... Pimlico released it's spring meet wagering info yesterday. The Slider is not mentioned.

Changes include dropping the pick-6, adding a 50c pick-5 at 18%, and going fractional (50c) on the pick-3s and pick-4s, too. A super-high-5 will be added for the week of the Preakness. And, finally, they'll have 10c superfectas.

Positive changes all around, in my opinion.

-InTheRiver68

[rastajenk]

Tote probably told 'em to stick it.

[Southieboy]

Update... Pimlico released it's spring meet wagering info yesterday. The Slider is not mentioned.

-InTheRiver68

Where did you get this news?