Obama Kicks The Habit

[Overlay]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41477502/ns/health-addictions/?GT1=43001

Putting political differences aside, I applaud the President on this one, for his own benefit and that of his family.

[ArlJim78]

If she never saw him light up when he did smoke, how does she know for sure that he quit?

[bigmack]

I know it's addictive & all but how can anyone be dumb enough to be a smoker in this day & age?

[boxcar]

The next habit he has to quit is Lying. That would be very good for promoting a healthy nation.

Boxcar

[gl45]

big f $%^& ing deal. I use to smoke 2.5 pack of Marlboro (red) a day. Took Chantix and 3 weeks later I was free. That was 2 years ago and I'm not in the news.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I know it's addictive & all but how can anyone be dumb enough to be a smoker in this day & age?

Kurt Vonnegut has the best line about it... that's probably a hint of my reasoning...

Frankly, I love to smoke. I intend to quit the moment I take my last breath. It is one of the few fleeting ways this person can simultaneously turn off life and also live for the moment.

I'm willing to take all the shit thrown at me for such a ridculous commentary, but its true.

It isn't just smoking - it's an overall attitude of defiance towards 'being looked out for'. I don't need it and don't want it. Smoking has affected my health negatively in many ways, as have many other things, all of which I have had to part with to the complete and utter detriment of my ability to enjoy life.

If I can't enjoy it, I don't want it - that may seem naively youthful and fatalistic - but without laying down entirely on the couch and punching the meter - I'm not real eager to give up those things that actually do feel like life.

[boxcar]

Kurt Vonnegut has the best line about it... that's probably a hint of my reasoning...

Frankly, I love to smoke. I intend to quit the moment I take my last breath. It is one of the few fleeting ways this person can simultaneously turn off life and also live for the moment.

I'm willing to take all the shit thrown at me for such a ridculous commentary, but its true.

It isn't just smoking - it's an overall attitude of defiance towards 'being looked out for'. I don't need it and don't want it. Smoking has affected my health negatively in many ways, as have many other things, all of which I have had to part with to the complete and utter detriment of my ability to enjoy life.

If I can't enjoy it, I don't want it - that may seem naively youthful and fatalistic - but without laying down entirely on the couch and punching the meter - I'm not real eager to give up those things that actually do feel like life.

Wow! A genuine throwback to the, "If it feels good, do it" generation. Have you ever drawn any line in the sands of your hedonism that you wouldn't cross? :D

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

Kurt Vonnegut has the best line about it... that's probably a hint of my reasoning...

Frankly, I love to smoke. I intend to quit the moment I take my last breath. It is one of the few fleeting ways this person can simultaneously turn off life and also live for the moment.

I'm willing to take all the shit thrown at me for such a ridculous commentary, but its true.

It isn't just smoking - it's an overall attitude of defiance towards 'being looked out for'. I don't need it and don't want it. Smoking has affected my health negatively in many ways, as have many other things, all of which I have had to part with to the complete and utter detriment of my ability to enjoy life.

If I can't enjoy it, I don't want it - that may seem naively youthful and fatalistic - but without laying down entirely on the couch and punching the meter - I'm not real eager to give up those things that actually do feel like life.

Not to make you nervous or something worse, John :) , but I'm with you 1000%. There is a reason why tobacco has florished all these years. If people don't want to enjoy it - no problem. Just get off my back.

Two other comments:

1. Who cares if your kids see you smoke? If they don't like it, they won't take up smoking. That's actually as simple as it is from what I've seen over the years.

2. Those extra years you may or may not get to live as a non-smoker in all liklihood are not going to be as precious as you envision. That's another thing I've seen over the years.

Anyway, if you don't want to smoke - good for you. Just don't tell me what's good or bad for me.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Wow! A genuine throwback to the, "If it feels good, do it" generation. Have you ever drawn any line in the sands of your hedonism that you wouldn't cross? :D

Boxcar

That's the reality - I never realized how much of my hedonism had been taken away until it was gone. I'm not letting this one get away.

Cynics have difficulty convincing themselves of anything.

[cj's dad]

My father was a bricklayer who smoked 2 & 1/2 to 3 packs of Pall Malls every day and most were while laying brick. He died at age 50. His indulgence made me have no desire to ever smoke. Those who do smoke should not be chastised. It is apparently an addiction. Most of us have addictions. Some are more lethal than others.

[Valuist]

1. Who cares if your kids see you smoke? If they don't like it, they won't take up smoking. That's actually as simple as it is from what I've seen over the years.



Thats a selfish attitude. Ever hear of second hand smoke?

[NJ Stinks]

Thats a selfish attitude. Ever hear of second hand smoke?

The next person I meet who suffered from second hand smoke will be the first person I met who suffered from second hand smoke.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Not to make you nervous or something worse, John :) , but I'm with you 1000%. ...

Actually, I figured we'd be a limp alliance in this thread. It's pretty hard for me to not see something of value in everyone's opinion or perspective, so please don't think our regular disparities imply that I wouldn't fight for your stupid opinions.


1. Who cares if your kids see you smoke? If they don't like it, they won't take up smoking. That's actually as simple as it is from what I've seen over the years.

This I disagree with. Both of my parents smoked throughout my childhood before the days of going outside or even rolling down windows in the car. My best friend's father sent his son and I to the store to by cigarettes for him every day. His son was a pack a day smoker by age ten.

I never smoked until I was 19. My friend quit in his twenties.

My own personal experience would seem to, in a roundabout way, make your case. So be it, but if you take on the challenge of parenting, you had better be enough of a role model to your kids that they don't go looking for role models elsewhere in life.

I can't imagine what it would be like trying to instill certain virtues in something I created while puffing on a smokey. I couldn't do it. When you make another life, your life is no longer yours exclusively.

I made a few conscious decisions in life to compensate for my most glaring shortcomings, and using a condom was front and center.


2. Those extra years you may or may not get to live as a non-smoker in all liklihood are not going to be as precious as you envision. That's another thing I've seen over the years.


I don't need extra years. Years are a method of counting intervals. But, to disagree with you a bit again here - there's a better chance that you and I will really not find our last few "extra" years all that precious thanks directly to our choice.

But it is our choice, and it is up to smokers like you and I to be respectful of others that haven chosen otherwise. That doesn't mean that we need to cowtow to unreasonableness, but generally, you only encounter that attitude if you are defiant and lack respect for the seriousness of the matter in the minds' of others.

I do everything that I can do to ensure that my choice is not a burden on anyone else, at any time. I encourage you to do the same even if it seems downright silly.

It is one thing to have a flippant attitude about your own well-being, it is criminal to have the same attitude towards others.

...Just don't tell me what's good or bad for me...

I know what you're saying here, but don't confuse concern and love with browbeating. Smoking is bad for you.

A LOT of things are bad for you, smoking happens to be one of those ones that you have immediate control over and those that made their choice NOT to smoke seem to feel a bit more comfortable talking down to those that made an opposing choice. Maybe they have a low opinion of themselves and feel that you must be a total moron for not being able to make the same choice.

Be respectful of choices of others and of others in general, and chances are, people will give you the benefit of the doubt when the shoe is on the wrong foot.

People think I lead a very strange life. It's by design. I once lived the way they currently do and realized that I had a bunch of stuff to make my life better and easier and healthier... really, what I had were shackles binding me to that life. Smoking is in some way an extension of this, I think. I can quit or I keep smoking, it's up to me. I can have a bank account or I can not have a bank account, it's up to me. I can go here if I want or there if I want, take a job, quit a job, it's up to me.

Remain unshackled, but remember that others view smoking as a shackle. Be respectful and expect the same in return.

Then, as imperfect as we are, we can justify telling someone to suck it and blow smoke in their face. :)

[johnhannibalsmith]

My father was a bricklayer ....

I hated being forced to haul the mortar pans, carry those damn bricks in that contraption that bit my finger, and nothing was worse than standing there ripping those sacks open and mixing in the sand, then water, then sand, then hoe, hoe, hoe...

My father did a great job convincing me what a horrible, wretched existence this was. Then at age 18, several years after the last time I was forced into paternal slavery, I figured out why we always took the scenic routes to everywhere. I realized the difference between doing a jog and having a job. It was everywhere to see, I just hadn't remembered how many of those places along those scenic drives I had seen in a much different context.

Sorry for the thread drift...

[boxcar]

The next person I meet who suffered from second hand smoke will be the first person I met who suffered from second hand smoke.

Whoa there, NJ. Whoa. Put the brakes on your pony for a second. Are you telling us that you don't believe government's official position on second hand smoke? You are in disagreement with long standing official policy from the SG's office? Why aren't you a believer?

Boxcar

[Valuist]

The next person I meet who suffered from second hand smoke will be the first person I met who suffered from second hand smoke.

So are you a one pack or two pack a day smoker?

[johnhannibalsmith]

So are you a one pack or two pack a day smoker?

I believe he smokes those terrible cheap stogies. What a fool. ;)

[NJ Stinks]

John, I had hoped you knew by now that I know you treat all posters fairly. Even the ones you disagree with.

My early experience with smoking goes like this. My Dad smoked 3 packs a day until he quit at 43. I can't ever remember him buying a carton so that meant lots of trips to the grocery store by his kids. At any rate, two of his four kids never took a puff. Ever. My sister smoked but quit about 4 years ago. My mother never smoked. As for me, I never started smoking until I was 32. I guess that makes me uniquely crazy but I can live with that. :)

I don't consider my father any less of a role model because he smoked throughout my childhood. The guy smoked because he liked it. Didn't imply smoking is for everybody. And none of us took it that way.

As for being defiant, I'm not. I don't blow smoke in anyone's face. I do think racetrack's could accommodate smokers though. After all, there's an excellent chance that at least 20% of your clientele smokes so do something to keep them coming. Like give us a place to smoke!

To continue my rather boring history with smoking, I smoked cigarettes until 1994. Then I quit smoking cigarettes - mainly because of cost. In 1998, while sitting in an English pub, I bummed a cigar from a buddy. I liked it and have smoked cigars only since then. I like to think I don't inhale cigars like I did with cigs but who knows for sure?

In closing, it makes me mad when one of my nieces or nephews (or their kids nowadays!) acts like I have the plague because I smoke. I'm sure people think they are doing God's work brainwashing kids about the evils of smoking and letting those kids tell me what they think. What's up with that? :rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

Whoa there, NJ. Whoa. Put the brakes on your pony for a second. Are you telling us that you don't believe government's official position on second hand smoke? You are in disagreement with long standing official policy from the SG's office? Why aren't you a believer?

Boxcar

You know how the government is, Boxcar. :cool:

I'm also not a big believer in drunk driving stats. Once again I believe people with good intentions have run amok. The end result is a far more dreary existence for all of us based on faulty statistics/information IMO.

[bigmack]

I started burning butts around 30. Rolled through 2 packs/day for about 2 years. I always resented the bastards. Sure the smoke in the AM and the ones after a meal tasted good but the others were a habit knockin' at my door & I got mighty tired of the knocking.

Quit cold turkey and never went back with the exception of Black & Milds for a brief spell. Inhaled those suckers to the tune of 6-7/day.

The old man was a four pack per diem cat. They tore his lung out as emphysema riddled his body.

The baggage that goes with the 'enjoyment' of smoking is tough to sell. You smell like an ashtray, your clothes reek, your teeth are stained, your lungs are brown & you're a social pariah. Other than that....

[johnhannibalsmith]

...I don't consider my father any less of a role model because he smoked throughout my childhood. The guy smoked because he liked it. Didn't imply smoking is for everybody. And none of us took it that way....

I probably made a very poor attempt at conveying my intent with that bit of jibber jabber.

What I was trying to express, I think, was more a reflection of ME and my self-image than an indictment of parents that smoke. I certainly didn't consider my father's habit a problem for me, but if I were growing up in today's bizarro world, I might. Take a look at your closing statements in this reply to see what I mean.

As a parent, the primary duty is to teach. Not the useless stuff, but the important stuff.

If I smoke, really, what am I teaching?

I know you can jump into the mind of a binary existence where it's either a or b, black or white, yes or no... republican or democrat....

Children are rarely sophisticated, nor objective enough to skip to answer (c) and glean from the contradiction that people are flawed and that what dad is REALLY learnin' ya is the importance of individuality, critical thinking, and the power of choice. Kids will undoubtedly either justify their own habit by yelling "hypocrite!" if you tell them to do otherwise or they will turn you into CPS if you condone it. (ample hyperbole, but I'm not gunning for factual)

I would be tortured as a parent trying to balance the importance of supporting the structure outside of my "home" (church, temple, school, sports, etc...) and clarifying the ambiguity of simplistic answers to difficult questions. I couldn't handle teaching my child to conform, but I couldn't handle teaching my child to be non-conformist either. It's a long, dry spell for most kids before they can open the doors to Oz and see that the world is full of colors and bastardizations of the black and white preconceptions.

I'm sure that worked wonders as a clarification.


As for being defiant, I'm not. I don't blow smoke in anyone's face. I do think racetrack's could accommodate smokers though. After all, there's an excellent chance that at least 20% of your clientele smokes so do something to keep them coming. Like give us a place to smoke!

Well, I think choices like this should ultimately be the decision of the proprietor. I'd like to hollar about regulations and government overreach, but the reality my tar-lunged friend is this - 80% don't want us smoking indoors.

When these smoking bans went into effect, I thought it was nutty thinking. I don't anymore. I see how aggravated some people get by smoking, and even by the smokers themselves.

We may think they are snooty bitches and many are. Many are also former smokers that have medical issues as a result of their smoking and take their health far more seriously than we apparently do. Many have had a stream of loved ones die as a result of smoking and death, being what it is to many people, has a powerful effect on those people. Cigarettes look like mafia hitmen to a lot of people and smokers take on the role of Don Smokealeone.

It may be irrational to you and I, but you better believe they think we are just as irrational.


In closing, it makes me mad when one of my nieces or nephews (or their kids nowadays!) acts like I have the plague because I smoke. I'm sure people think they are doing God's work brainwashing kids about the evils of smoking and letting those kids tell me what they think. What's up with that? :rolleyes:

I'll avoid being redundant since it wasn't all that great the first time 'round - so, suffice it to say - I hate this too. But it doesn't make us right.

Smoking kills more people than all the illicit drugs combined and yet, it never felt like brainwashing when Nancy was on her "Just Say NO" kick or when the ignorant DARE program was in full flight for the wire.

Why? Kids are simple minded and the message only gets through when you repeat the simple. It isn't brainwashing per se, it's well-intended, childlike guidance for children.

It is a bitch that when posing the message that cigarettes are bad, what often is comprehended is that smokers are bad - but most kids are mimicing what they are perceiving as the message delivered to them - If you smoke, you'll be a naughty, naughty little girl and Santa will only bring $2,600 worth of useless shit.

You can't expect to talk to children the way they need to be talked to and then figure that they will comprehend the childspeak in adult terms.

But, in your role as uncle, you'd probably be doing her father a little service if you did try to work on helping colorize the world for his child. I'm sure he'd like to do it, too. Maybe not on this subject in particular, but there will come a time when he and his daughter will appreciate you getting a foot into the entrance to Oz.

[boxcar]

The next person I meet who suffered from second hand smoke will be the first person I met who suffered from second hand smoke.

So, let me see if I have this right. When it comes to something that brings you personal pleasure, you're a very independent person, yes? You're not going to allow the State to interfere with or intrude into your "pleasure zone", if you can help it. Right? When it comes to your personal pleasure, you're not going to depend on anyone, are you?

Now, I'm sure you would agree that smoking is an acquired habit, yes? Smoking isn't something that any of us needs to do. Smoking isn't a necessity in life, such as eating, working, transportation, etc. And smoking isn't a cheap habit these days, is it? Wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you ditched the ciggys and donated the saved money to some good causes? Right now, a good bit of your money every year is literally going up in smoke, but it could be put to far more humane, selfless and charitable use if you spent it to feed hungry people, for example. Of course, I bring this up because you're a liberal and you're always harping on how conservatives are selfish and greedy types because we don't appreciate the State taking money (from which we could derive pleasure!) out of our pockets to redistribute to whoever it deems worthy.

So, all this has me curious. You don't want the State to dictate to you when it comes to your personal pleasure zones, but you're fine with the government dictating to all taxpayers what we should be doing with our hard-earned dollars, such as giving up more our money to the state! What makes you think that many taxpayers, especially in the lower brackets, wouldn't be forced to forsake some of their worldly pleasures after the state has confiscated more tax dollars from them? But yet, conservatives are terrible, evil, greedy lowlifes when we tell libs like yourself that we don't want anyone telling us what is good or bad for us or what we should be doing with the fruits of our labor.

And you're also fine in trusting the state in virtually everything it says, providing its policies don't infringe on your liberty to indulge in whatever habit or pleasure you desire. So, when it comes down to brass tacks, it appears you're as selfish and greedy as you allege we conservatives are.

I detect a wee bit of hypocrisy in your selfish attitude and in the actual indulgence of your habit/pleasure. What sayest, thou?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I started burning butts around 30. Rolled through 2 packs/day for about 2 years. I always resented the bastards. Sure the smoke in the AM and the ones after a meal tasted good but the others were a habit knockin' at my door & I got mighty tired of the knocking.

Quit cold turkey and never went back with the exception of Black & Milds for a brief spell. Inhaled those suckers to the tune of 6-7/day.

The old man was a four pack per diem cat. They tore his lung out as emphysema riddled his body.

The baggage that goes with the 'enjoyment' of smoking is tough to sell. You smell like an ashtray, your clothes reek, your teeth are stained, your lungs are brown & you're a social pariah. Other than that....

And not only this, but talk to people who have quit smoking (and I am one). Virtually all of us will testify that at some point in time, we actually started to feel better physically. I think this goes a long way in proving in a very practical, real world, nitty gritty way that smoking really isn't too good for people's physical well being. Many ex-smokers never realize just how bad off they were physically during the time they smoked until AFTER they quit.

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
You smell like an ashtray, your clothes reek, your teeth are stained, your lungs are brown & you're a social pariah...

Those are actually my finest attributes.

:cool:

[horses4courses]

You know how the government is, Boxcar. :cool:

I'm also not a big believer in drunk driving stats. Once again I believe people with good intentions have run amok. The end result is a far more dreary existence for all of us based on faulty statistics/information IMO.

How the hell can you dispute drunk driving statistics???
A far more dreary existence? Gimme a frickin break!!!
If you're impaired, you have no business getting behind a wheel.
End of story.

Drunk driving kills, just like cigarettes do.

I don't recommend that you learn through the experience of losing a loved one to a drunk driver. That's the only way to get a feel for that, though.

As far as cigarettes go, try visiting with an emphysema sufferer.
That's always a real treat.......

[boxcar]

You know how the government is, Boxcar. :cool:

I'm also not a big believer in drunk driving stats. Once again I believe people with good intentions have run amok. The end result is a far more dreary existence for all of us based on faulty statistics/information IMO.

Oh, yes...I have the government's number. But you only have it when it suits your own purposes.

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

The baggage that goes with the 'enjoyment' of smoking is tough to sell.

Agreed.

(I hope nobody here thinks I'm trying to sell it to anybody.)

[NJ Stinks]

What I was trying to express, I think...

Post 21 expressed it especially well. :ThmbUp:

[NJ Stinks]

....What sayest, thou?

Boxcar

I say you ask a lot of questions! :p

Let's just say I pay a lot in tobacco taxes to the state and federal government that 80% of the population doesn't pay.

Other than that, there's not much I can add that you won't tar & feather me for.

[NJ Stinks]

How the hell can you dispute drunk driving statistics???
A far more dreary existence? Gimme a frickin break!!!
If you're impaired, you have no business getting behind a wheel.
End of story.

Drunk driving kills, just like cigarettes do.

I don't recommend that you learn through the experience of losing a loved one to a drunk driver. That's the only way to get a feel for that, though.

As far as cigarettes go, try visiting with an emphysema sufferer.
That's always a real treat.......

I'm not going to look anything up tonight but I did research on this before. The statistics that rallied states to get us down to the .08 blood-alcohol limit in the body came mainly from MADD. If I remember correctly, MADD claims over 40% of all accidents are alcohol-related. Apparently, MADD considers an accident alcohol-related if anyone in the car has been drinking - not just the driver. Even worse is that MADD considers an accident alcohol-related if anyone in the car had an alcoholic drink at any time during the day the car was in the accident. Until the late '90's in NJ, the blood-alcohol limit was 0.1 . That was a much more realistic limit IMO.

Think about it. Does it even make sense that 40% of all accidents in motor vehicles are alcohol related? People get into accidents for lots of reasons. Weather-related accidents are probably by far the biggest reason.

You may not agree with me, Horses4courses, but I think it's indisputable that people are much less apt to go to a bar/restaurant or someone's home and have a few drinks with friends/family today. Most people just don't want the hassle of worrying about being pulled over. I think that leads to less socializing - or a more dreary existence. (It's different in cities I would imagine because the car is not needed as much.)

I think any of us who have been around awhile know somebody who lost their life in an auto accident whether drink was involved or not. At any rate, I'm not saying there should be no blood-alcohol limit. I'm saying .08 is too low a limit.

The above sums up my dispute with drunk driving statistics. Anyway, nothing like sticking up for smokers and drinkers on the same night! :)

[Tom]

I know it's addictive & all but how can anyone be dumb enough to be a smoker in this day & age?

This is Obama we are talking about. :D

[boxcar]

I say you ask a lot of questions! :p

Let's just say I pay a lot in tobacco taxes to the state and federal government that 80% of the population doesn't pay.

Other than that, there's not much I can add that you won't tar & feather me for.

But you could "donate" so much more directly to the poor and hungry and disenfranchised and homeless, etc., etc. if you just quit smoking. What you pay in your taxes wouldn't even come close to what you pay for a pack or carton of cancer sticks. You could do so much good with that cig money if you quit; but instead you have chosen to be selfish and indulge yourself in a worldly pleasure. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Just remember: Don't ever call any conservative here greedy or selfish when the governments threatens to limit our worldly pleasures through excessive taxation. I will call you on it. ;)

Boxcar

[Tom]

People have the right to smoke, but they do not have the right to do it anywhere they want to.

And government has no right to tell business they cannot allow it.

I chose to smoke, chose to quit, and now I couldn't care less if you smoke near me - absolutely doesn't bother me a bit. Just don't burn me,
don't butt out in my potato salad, and when you cough up a lung, please turn your head away.

Other than that, we're KOOL. :cool::cool::cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of cigarettes, apparently electronic ciggies are all the rage in Hollywood these days...I've seen pics of DiCaprio, Depp and that chick from Knocked Up/Grey's Anatomy puffing on them...

Did research on them and discovered there has recently been a serious backlash against them from the FDA and a few state legislatures, especially my own here in NY that has been seeking a BAN on them lately....

By all accounts (including a few scientific studies) e-cigs are VASTLY less dangerous than their analog counterparts...and they seem to help a lot of folks kick real cigarettes while allowing them to continue to enjoy in the pleasures of "smoking" without all the nastiness such as BigMack recently pointed out.

I find the hypocrisy surrounding various gov't stances on e-cigs to be shocking. Looking to ban e-cigs while continuing to allow regular cigs to be sold? It takes a certain kind of balls to defend that kind of nonsense.

It's amazing what the tabacco and pharmaceutical lobby can accomplish at times.

[Tom]

It is really amazing how little governments actually represent the will of the people. Why do we continue to support them?

[bigmack]

Next week alcohol lobbyists are poised to push for the closure of AA meetings as unlawful gatherings.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/kooky.png

[Tom]

Remember that name - Linda Rosenthal.
She is your enemy. Treat her as such if you get the opportunity.