Has California become a minor-league circuit?

[Southieboy]

* Small Fields.
* Crappy surfaces.
* High Takeout.
* Super Trainers/Jocks.
* Drug users.

Has it gotten this bad?

[Stillriledup]

Its been this way for years. BUT, now, the only difference is that the prices to bet went WAY up. So now, you're betting on the same junk, at a much higher price.

[BlueShoe]

Has it gotten this bad?
Not quite yet. SA, HOL, and DMR are still Class "A" tracks, although the hold is getting rather shaky. Unless the downward spiral is reversed, in perhaps five years, or even less, the big California tracks will no longer be top tier. The flip side is, if not SoCal tracks, then what tracks will be top dogs?

[Robert Goren]

Right the other "A" circuit is NYRA(except the inner track at AQU) and Gulfstream. No one else is even close these days.

[horses4courses]

The non-left coasters have been posing that same question since before the days of War Admiral and Seabiscuit.

Next.......

[Tom]

Like NYRA, the top level is good quality.
The bottoms are the pits.

[Southieboy]

Right the other "A" circuit is NYRA(except the inner track at AQU) and Gulfstream. No one else is even close these days.

Sad part is is that AQU inner and Tampa (along with GP, FG & OP) have much better racing than CA now.

[Valuist]

Keeneland and Churchill are definitely as good, if not better, than Southern California.

[Stillriledup]

Keeneland and Churchill are definitely as good, if not better, than Southern California.

Keeneland would be better if they went back to dirt.

[BlueShoe]

The big SoCal, NYRA, and Kentucky tracks have been considered the Class "A" venues ever since I can remember. During its heyday, Hialeah was too. A case might be made for or against including Gulfstream. Who are the up and comers? Monmouth, Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Woodbine?

[Robert Goren]

Some sort of case can be made for the spring meet at Keenland. Churchill on the other hand with exception of derby week and some 2 yo races is pretty poor race in and race out. Indiana has stolen too many horses from there. Say what you want about S. Cal., their horses are a force to reckoned with when they ship out. The Fairgrounds and Oaklawn are what they have always been, a cut below the best. I have been betting some Tampa. They are Golden Gate with larger fields.

[PhantomOnTour]

* Small Fields.
* Crappy surfaces.
* High Takeout.
* Super Trainers/Jocks.
* Drug users.

Has it gotten this bad?
The last three can be found at all big league tracks.
Cali is still the major leagues...they have many Gr1 races and host the BC regularly. Come to think of it, SoCal is the majors and NorCal is the minors. They have Gr1 races at 3 tracks in SoCal...that's the big leagues.

[jelly]

Not quite yet. SA, HOL, and DMR are still Class "A" tracks, although the hold is getting rather shaky. Unless the downward spiral is reversed, in perhaps five years, or even less, the big California tracks will no longer be top tier. The flip side is, if not SoCal tracks, then what tracks will be top dogs?




I give it two years.

Handle will be down 15% this year and the next.Welcome to the "B" tracks.

It's quite possible Tampa bay could catch up with So.Cal in handle after next year.

[Valuist]

Keeneland would be better if they went back to dirt.

Agreed although my comment was about the quality of the horses.

[ronsmac]

Not quite yet. SA, HOL, and DMR are still Class "A" tracks, although the hold is getting rather shaky. Unless the downward spiral is reversed, in perhaps five years, or even less, the big California tracks will no longer be top tier. The flip side is, if not SoCal tracks, then what tracks will be top dogs?Class A track, you must be kidding.

[Zman179]

The big SoCal, NYRA, and Kentucky tracks have been considered the Class "A" venues ever since I can remember. During its heyday, Hialeah was too. A case might be made for or against including Gulfstream. Who are the up and comers? Monmouth, Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Woodbine?

Not Monmouth because that meet was an anomaly.
Fairgrounds and Oaklawn are high quality meets.
Woodbine has an A class purse structure, but the horses that run there keep it a B track.

[Southieboy]

Of the tracks running now:
Aqueduct: B
Gulfstream: B (this will go down further if they ever expand)
Fair Grounds: C+
Oaklawn: C (Lack of turf racing hurts)
Tampa: C-
Golden Gate: D-
Santa Anita: F (this track is a joke)

[toussaud]

Some sort of case can be made for the spring meet at Keenland. Churchill on the other hand with exception of derby week and some 2 yo races is pretty poor race in and race out. Indiana has stolen too many horses from there. Say what you want about S. Cal., their horses are a force to reckoned with when they ship out. The Fairgrounds and Oaklawn are what they have always been, a cut below the best. I have been betting some Tampa. They are Golden Gate with larger fields.
This is the only rational post in this entire thread.


SAy what you want about SAnta Anita and the takeout but the racing is top class. Churchill's quality is declding much faster than SAnta Anita.

dancinginherdreams looked like rachel a at churhill and burned everyone's money when she hit a real track. The Stall Filly, Abide, something like that, burned alot of money at fair grounds after looking like a world beater at churchill. There was a Churchill horse that was in a MSW came in 2nd, i can't think of his name dang it. Anyway, Assumssen shipped him out to SAnta Anita, he went off as I want to say the 8/5 fav on the 2nd day of the santa Anita meet in the first race, and got smoked by uncle sam, I don't even think he hit the board. He just came back and lost again last week ,but came in 3rd. Uncle sam isn't even a top cut 3YO.


Also, last year, Santa Anita horses, came in and swept the entire freaking oaklawn 3YO triple trail races, conveyance took the southwest, lookin at lucky took the rebel and Line of David took the santa anita derby.

You are kidding yourself if you think Santa Anita quality of racing is bad. It might not be good VALUE but but dont' confuse value with quality of racing.

[mannyberrios]

Of the tracks running now:
Aqueduct: B
Gulfstream: B (this will go down further if they ever expand)
Fair Grounds: C+
Oaklawn: C (Lack of turf racing hurts)
Tampa: C-
Golden Gate: D-
Santa Anita: F (this track is a joke)
Boy are you strict!

[Southieboy]

Saturday's Fields w/Average:
Aqueduct: 97 in 10 races (9.7)
Gulfstream: 138 in 11 races (12.54)
Fair Grounds: 127 in 12 races (10.58)
Santa Anita: 84 in 10 races (8.4)
Golden Gate: 77 in 9 races (8.6)