NJ gets exchange wagering

[DJofSD]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61067/bills-to-help-jersey-racing-signed-into-law?source=rss

Will this be open to people outside the state, or, is it strictly for residents?

[FenceBored]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61067/bills-to-help-jersey-racing-signed-into-law?source=rss

Will this be open to people outside the state, or, is it strictly for residents?

I believe it is limited to NJ residents.

It is the further intent of the Legislature that exchange wagers may be taken in person, by direct telephone call, or by communication through other electronic media from residents of this State on horse races conducted within and outside of this State and may be matched and pooled on an exchange.
-- http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A3000/2926_R2.HTM

[The Hawk]

[url]Will this be open to people outside the state, or, is it strictly for residents?

It's interesting that wasn't addressed in the story. I would think it would have to be, and I sure hope so. Otherwise it'll be 15 guys trying to beat each other for an extra point or two every day.

[Robert Goren]

I like the idea, but by the time everyone gets their cut, it will be much ado about nothing. Does anybody really think the the horse people are give part of their share of takeout to make this work. You are not going see a 5% fee or even a 15% on wagers.

[Spiderman]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/61067/bills-to-help-jersey-racing-signed-into-law?source=rss

Will this be open to people outside the state, or, is it strictly for residents?


I am NJ resident and will gladly trade you to go out-of-state to new ADW for your ability to play in this pool.

[drib]

In a struggling economic environment, it is no surprise that the geniuses running California, and NJ racing are succumbing to the lure of exchange betting. Here comes cash rich, phenomenally successful Betfair (already purchasers of TVG) offering a panacea; however, as we see so often, these authorities have no real understanding of their own sport, most particularly the betting aspect. Firstly, it is not at all clear that the US Dept. of Justice will consider exchange betting legal; remember that these guys still consider simulcasting against the law. More importantly, there is a fundamental difference between racing on both sides of the Atlantic. In Europe, especially Great Britain and Ireland, there have always been participants (bookmakers) who profit when a horse loses. Over hundreds of years, this notion of winning when losing has been built into the system for the owners, trainers, punters, jockeys and stewards. There has never really been a similar concept in the USA, and abruptly introducing a setup where profits can be made by losing is a recipe for disaster. Authorities here have enough difficulty dealing with the edge-seekers who try to win races using illegal drugs, milk-shaking etc.; asking them to attempt to police the reverse is unlikely to work well, and opens the door to so many more problems.

[FiveWide]

What is exchange betting?

thx,
-Five

[drib]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_exchange

[llegend39]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2011/02/01/exchange-wagering-new-jersey.aspx

[highnote]

The Thoroughbred Times reported: "NJSEA spokesman John Samerjan said the authority would contract with an exchange operator and could launch as soon as this year."

Anyone care to make a line on which "exchange operator" will get the contract?

I wonder if Gov. Christie knows that exhange wagering is bookmaking?

Bookmaking used to be legal in NY before it was outlawed and was replaced with pari-mutuel wagering.

Has anyone in any government agency looked at the history of bookmaking to understand why it was outlawed?

Who is going to be able to use the NJ bookie exchange? Will anyone be able to lay odds, or will only licensed bookies be able to lay odds?

Will only NJ residents be able to use the exchange or will non-residents be able to use it?

If non-residents are allowed to have exchange accounts will that mean NJ residents will be allowed to have ADW accounts with operators in other states?

If a NJ exchange is legalized then NJ residents should be able to have an exchange account with overseas operators, too -- right? If not, this would be restraint of trade.

Which events will be offered on the exchange? Racing only? Other sports? Racing from which states? Do you think CA or NY will want their races listed on an NJ exchange?

NJ opened a big can of worms.

[highnote]

I love this line in the legislation:

“Exchange wagering” means a form of parimutuel wagering in which two or more persons place identically opposing wagers in a given market." :D





I believe it is limited to NJ residents.

It is the further intent of the Legislature that exchange wagers may be taken in person, by direct telephone call, or by communication through other electronic media from residents of this State on horse races conducted within and outside of this State and may be matched and pooled on an exchange.
-- http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A3000/2926_R2.HTM

[menifee]

"It is the further intent of the Legislature that exchange wagers may be taken in person, by direct telephone call, or by communication through other electronic media from residents of this State on horse races conducted within and outside of this State and may be matched and pooled on an exchange."

I once drove through NJ to make it to DC. Does that make me a resident? Hey, Rahm is a resident of Chicago, why I can't I be a resident of NJ for these pools. If this is done right, this could be a panacea for the game and for its players.

I have always been able to tell you the horses that could not win the race, not the horses that could win the race. :bang:

[Charlie D]

I wonder if Gov. Christie knows that exhange wagering is bookmaking?

.

I'm sure the lawyers and representitives of exchanges have earnt thier money and shown Gov. Christie that exchange wagering is not bookmaking, but a new form of tote betting.

[PaceAdvantage]

Threads merged.

[nearco]

I'm sure the lawyers and representitives of exchanges have earnt thier money and shown Gov. Christie that exchange wagering is not bookmaking, but a new form of tote betting.

??
How is it a tote?
It is fixed odds peer to peer bookmaking, plain and simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Stillriledup]

The Thoroughbred Times reported: "NJSEA spokesman John Samerjan said the authority would contract with an exchange operator and could launch as soon as this year."

Anyone care to make a line on which "exchange operator" will get the contract?

I wonder if Gov. Christie knows that exhange wagering is bookmaking?

Bookmaking used to be legal in NY before it was outlawed and was replaced with pari-mutuel wagering.

Has anyone in any government agency looked at the history of bookmaking to understand why it was outlawed?

Who is going to be able to use the NJ bookie exchange? Will anyone be able to lay odds, or will only licensed bookies be able to lay odds?

Will only NJ residents be able to use the exchange or will non-residents be able to use it?

If non-residents are allowed to have exchange accounts will that mean NJ residents will be allowed to have ADW accounts with operators in other states?

If a NJ exchange is legalized then NJ residents should be able to have an exchange account with overseas operators, too -- right? If not, this would be restraint of trade.

Which events will be offered on the exchange? Racing only? Other sports? Racing from which states? Do you think CA or NY will want their races listed on an NJ exchange?

NJ opened a big can of worms.

I guess if you live in NJ, you could open up a Betfair account instead of opening a similar account with NJ, after all, Betfair does such huge volume that it would be silly to open an account with them. I know they wouldnt say that exchange wagering is only legal if you use OUR company, i mean, that would be illegal to do that, right?

[Charlie D]

Anyone care to make a line on which "exchange operator" will get the contract?



Betfair is the leader in this field, however, Betdaq and World Bet Exchange may be interested in bidding for the contract. Also, there is nothing to stop say Xpressbet or other ADW's bidding for the contract is there??

[horses4courses]

I'm sure the lawyers and representitives of exchanges have earnt thier money and shown Gov. Christie that exchange wagering is not bookmaking, but a new form of tote betting.

That's like saying that oral sex is not sex, or smoking weed doesn't count unless you inhale. I know the semantics surrounding the legalities of this in the UK, Charlie. You have stated this many times here.

UK law, however, is not US law. Bookmaking is part of normal life over there.
It most certainly is not in this nation.

Seems to me, if you define exchange wagering as a new form of pari-mutuel wagering, you are basing that argument on the fact that the wagering parties are guaranteed to have "takeout" by a third party, say, for example, Betfair. The pool, however, does not exist until Player B accepts Player A's offer, and bets against him, or her.

This is where the bookmaking aspect appears - Player A posting those odds to initiate the transaction. To call that a form of pari-mutuel wagering is nonsense. It's bookmaking with a cut for the hub.

Would I like to take part in this form of wagering? Most certainly, yes.
As a California resident, I stand a better chance than most to participate.
I fear, however, that chance is slim to none.......

[Stillriledup]

NJ could just solve all their problems by just saying that NJ residents are allowed to open accounts with Betfair. I mean, they wouldnt need to go thru all this red tape, just let their residents open up Betfair accounts, problem solved.

[highnote]

No later than 60 days following the receipt of the application, the commission shall make a final determination on the application.

The regulations say the applicant for a betting exchange license will be approved or denied within 60 days. That's amazing! It took NY 10 years to approve a slot operator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like they are expediting this for whoever the first operator is going to be.

10. Subject to federal law and notwithstanding any law, rule, or regulation of this State to the contrary, the exchange wagering licensee shall be permitted to post exchange wagers submitted by residents of this State in an interstate exchange pool in order to form identically opposing wagers, and to treat any resulting matched wagers as part of one or more common pools with any other matched wagers in the interstate exchange pool.

What and where is the "interstate exchange pool? Does this mean bets in the NJ exchange will be merged with Betfair's UK exchange?

If this these "interstate exchange pools" are located in foreign countries then the World Trade Organization rulings come into play. This will be interesting to see how it plays out.


11. Notwithstanding any other law, rule or regulation to the contrary, the exchange wagering licensee shall not be required to include any pools of exchange wagers in the wagering pools at the track conducting the races, nor shall the exchange wagering licensee be required to retain, withhold, or take out any amounts from any exchange wagers.

What does the last part of this mean -- " nor shall the exchange wagering licensee be required to retain, withhold, or take out any amounts from any exchange wagers." This is contrary to what another part of the law says -- that 50% of the earnings are paid to the track.



12. Subject to the approval of the commission, the exchange wagering licensee shall be permitted to collect exchange revenues in the manner and amounts determined by the exchange wagering licensee, including but not limited to assessing a surcharge on any person’s net winnings.

So the exchange sets it's own rates? Why don't horsemen and racing boards have a say in what the rates should be?

A lot of cans of worms have been opened.

[highnote]

??
How is it a tote?
It is fixed odds peer to peer bookmaking, plain and simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


It is called "bookmaking" when you're a anti-gambling politician trying to win votes.

It is called "exchange wagering" when you're a politician trying to win votes by boosting the racing industry. :lol:

[highnote]

Betfair is the leader in this field, however, Betdaq and World Bet Exchange may be interested in bidding for the contract. Also, there is nothing to stop say Xpressbet or other ADW's bidding for the contract is there??


I hope they get a lot of applicants. Capitalism works best when there is competition.

The way the law reads, only one operator will get a license.

The way things work is that once the door is opened a bit, expansion takes place.

Atlantic City was the first place to get legalized gambling after Las Vegas. Now gambling has spread throughout the country.

I see the same thing happening with exchange wagering.

[Charlie D]

??
How is it a tote?
It is fixed odds peer to peer bookmaking, plain and simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Repeat, NEW FORM of Parimutuel wagering.

It's not bookmaking plain and simple and everyone knows it thanks to the laws on bookmaking. No lisence is required by any exchange customer, unlike they are in bookmaking.

[highnote]

Repeat, NEW FORM of Parimutuel wagering.

It's not bookmaking plain and simple and everyone knows it thanks to the laws on bookmaking. No lisence is required by any exchange customer, unlike they are in bookmaking.


This is good for the person who wants to lay odds -- like licensed bookmakers do.

[Charlie D]

This is good for the person who wants to lay odds -- like licensed bookmakers do.


When you back a horse or two or three are you not in fact LAYING the rest to LOSE??

[nearco]

When you back a horse or two or three are you not in fact LAYING the rest to LOSE??

LOL. Semantics, semantics.
I see you like word games, Charlie. :lol:
Yeah, I think h4courses was right, this is like the "oral sex is not sex" debate.

[ManeMediaMogul]

What if it is a very blizzardy night at Charles Town and only two guys show up to bet and the rest of the world is shut out because the internet goes down?

Isn't it still parimutuel wagering?

Aren't they both wagering against one another? Isn't that what the mutuel part of parimutuel wagering is?

As far as takeout is concerned...

So Joe makes Screaming Eagle 4-1 and Sam thinks he should be 8-5. Sam bets $200 on the Eagle at 4-1 and 10% of that wager goes to takeout leaving Sam $180 as his bet. Sounds like parimutuel to me.

[Charlie D]

You can gamble your hard earned buying and selling stocks and shares at an agreed price between seller and buyer in USA, but you can't seem to do exactly same with the horses or the NFL teams or the NBA teams etc

Which btw is not deemed bookmaking as far as i know.


Some weird stuff goes on stateside if you ask me.

[nearco]

What if it is a very blizzardy night at Charles Town and only two guys show up to bet and the rest of the world is shut out because the internet goes down?

Isn't it still parimutuel wagering?

Aren't they both wagering against one another? Isn't that what the mutuel part of parimutuel wagering is?


No because in a parimutuel system they can both bet on the same horse, and both possibly "win", or bet on two different horses and both lose. Also, either one or the other can chose not to bet. In an bookmaking "exchange" only one horse is involved, and there is a winner and a loser, with the bettor getting rewarded when that horse wins and the layer when the horse loses, and the whole transaction can not take place without both parties being involved.

[horses4courses]

Repeat, NEW FORM of Parimutuel wagering.

It's not bookmaking plain and simple and everyone knows it thanks to the laws on bookmaking. No lisence is required by any exchange customer, unlike they are in bookmaking.

Well, my friend, prepare yourself for the US definition.

You know how we say tomAto, and you say tomAHto? :lol:

[highnote]

When you back a horse or two or three are you not in fact LAYING the rest to LOSE??


I agree with you, more or less. The difference is, if I know a horse is going to lose, but not which one will win and I lay the horse to lose without backing a winner. Believe me, I understand your argument.

I came up with the idea of a betting exchange independent of Betfair.

Please read a blog piece I wrote for HANA a year or two ago:

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2008/07/racing-needs-paradigm-shift.html

I've been promoting the concept since November of 1998.

[Charlie D]

Yeah so you keep saying h4, but yet it's now legal in NJ and will probably be legal in California very soon also.

[nearco]

Yeah so you keep saying, but yet it's now legal in NJ and will probably be legal in California very soon also.

Chuck, it's not that simple. The US is a federal system. NJ could pass a law tomorrow morning making it illegal to speak anything but Serbo-Croatian. It wouldn't last long though.
Until such time as the the thing is up and running and bets are being exchanged without the feds challenging it and shutting it down, then it's not a go.

[Charlie D]

I agree with you, more or less. The difference is, if I know a horse is going to lose, but not which one will win and I lay the horse to lose without backing a winner. Believe me, I understand your argument.

I came up with the idea of a betting exchange independent of Betfair.

Please read a blog piece I wrote for HANA a year or two ago:

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2008/07/racing-needs-paradigm-shift.html

I've been promoting the concept since November of 1998.


John, maybe you shouldn't tell people your ideas :)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2002/jan/16/horseracing.gregwood

[DeanT]

I could be wrong, but from what I have heard its legality has completed the due diligence phase. I think they are looking to have everything done by the start of the MTH meet.

[highnote]

John, maybe you shouldn't tell people your ideas :)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2002/jan/16/horseracing.gregwood


Yeah. No shit. LOL

[horses4courses]

Yeah so you keep saying h4, but yet it's now legal in NJ and will probably be legal in California very soon also.

States starting exchange wagering will have to bow to federal mandates if, and when, those come about. More than likely, they will.

The NCAA, and pro sports organizations in this country, will not sit back and do nothing should exchange wagering be defined as separate from bookmaking

Don't believe for one minute that Betfair is here to be the saviour of horse racing in the US.
They are interested, ultimately, in other forms of sport, and betting on those events. That's where the big volume is for them. Two-legged sports.

[Charlie D]

You can't really tell me Federal gov hve no knowledge of this being proposed, discussed and passed in NJ.

[highnote]

Horses4 -- I think you're right. It seems likely that the DOJ would be looking into this -- especially if "interstate exchanges" are involved, and if those "interstate exchanges" are located overseas. Then the whole WTO and UIGEA/Ports Act comes into play.

Basically, the way I see it, it comes down to a fight between power and money.

The parties who stand to make money are not the same ones who want to wield their power.

[Charlie D]

Yep, comes down to money alright. like TAX revenue and states and govs like TAX revenue don't they.

[nearco]

You can't really tell me Federal gov hve no knowledge of this being proposed, discussed and passed in NJ.

I'm sure they do, but what is your point? Federal law trumps state law. Just like laws that legalise marijuana.... http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2010/1015/Marijuana-in-California-Prop.-19-won-t-stop-federal-drug-enforcement

[highnote]

Yep, comes down to money alright. like TAX revenue and states and govs like TAX revenue don't they.

Yes they do. But they will probably be disappointed. It may not be the panacea everyone is hoping for.

Attorney Nelson Rose, an expert in gambling and the law, wrote a recent article about how gambling rarely produces the tax revenue government hopes for. Unfortunately, I can't find it -- so it may be one he emailed to his readers -- but has not published.

http://www.gamblingandthelaw.com/columns.html

[horses4courses]

I hate being the "nay sayer" when it comes to exchange wagering in the US.

Personally, I wish there were freedom of choice for all gamblers, everywhere.
Betfair, and all it's competitors, along with Ladbrokes and William Hill stores legally established in every major state and city in the country.

Why shouldn't reputable, long-established bookmaking companies and exchanges, put illegal bookmakers in the US, and in the Caribbean, out of business?

Of course, it's never likely to happen.

I did read recently, though, that William Hill, along with system providers Cantor Fitzgerald, are talking to Harrah's about getting a start in Nevada.
Cantor Fitzgerald is already in Nevada, and I believe their system is first rate.
Betting on a game in progress. 21st century wagering. What a concept!

[Charlie D]

I'm sure they do, but what is your point? Federal law trumps state law. Just like laws that legalise marijuana.... http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2010/1015/Marijuana-in-California-Prop.-19-won-t-stop-federal-drug-enforcement



The point is if they did not want it, do you not think they would have had a quiet word in Gov. Christie's ear and this bill would never have , been discussed in state rooms or got passed

[highnote]

The point is if they did not want it, do you not think they would have had a quiet word in Gov. Christie's ear and this bill would never have , been discussed in state rooms or got passed


No. I don't think politicians care much about gambling -- until they know it has political implications.

[Charlie D]

No. I don't think politicians care much about gambling -- until they know it has political implications.


They may not care about gambling , but they do care what gambling generates and thats an income stream to help pay for other projects they know their voters would like to have by the next election.

[highnote]

They may not care about gambling , but they do care what gambling generates and thats an income stream to help pay for other projects they know their voters would like to have by the next election.


That is the hope.

[Charlie D]

That is the hope.


Yep and every dollar received will be welcomed with open arms by the politicians just as in other revenue streams. So will any jobs created as they create income from taxes i believe.

[highnote]

Yep and every dollar received will be welcomed with open arms by the politicians just as in other revenue streams. So will any jobs created as they create income from taxes i believe.


That was the argument I used 12 years ago. There was too much anti-gambling sentiment then and the economy was strong, so there was no appetite for the expansion of gambling.

[Charlie D]

They can see it in action and data can be presented John today, whereas back then all you had was an idea.

[DeanT]

Johnny, I find racing is around 12 years behind. It's like an episode of Lost.

So your idea in 1998 would have been met like an idea in 1984 about offering superfectas. It would have been some sort of strange heresy. :)

[highnote]

They can see it in action and data can be presented John today, whereas back then all you had was an idea.

You're right that today there is more action and data to be presented.

Ask Xerox about being first with the Graphical User Interface. Sometimes it doesn't pay to be first! :D

[DeanT]

Christie signed the subsidy bill today, that everyone said there was no chance he would sign.

Elite meet at MTH, some exchange wagering..... and some cash for purses. MJ racing has had a pretty good week. It has a chance.

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/2-1-11/gov-christie-signs-bill-30-million-new-jersey-racing-over-three-years.html

[alhattab]

The TDN piece said Christie retains veto power over the funds actually making it to the racetrack. I guess this refers to his ability to prevent the racing commission from distributing the funds that was reported a few weeks ago. This is where NJSBOA President Luchento said something like "he can't be that devious, can he?" We'll see

[Tuffmug]

The initiation of the monopoly NJ wagering platform (4NJBets) and the NJ betting parlors required 2+ years despite promises of rapid implementation. Expect exchange wagering in NJ will suffer the same superextended labor due to NJ clusterfu*k politics, casino,horsemen, and track attempts at sabotage. Maybe by 2014 so don't get too excited. If you want it it's probably better to move to Britain where they have it and don't tax gambling winnings.

Question: Can you use Betfair in Canada????

[classhandicapper]

The one problem I can see with exchange wagering is that the tracks need "X" percent of the handle to maintain themselves, operate, pay purses etc... The commissions on exchanges are so small, I don't see how the numbers add up.

I realize the goal is to expand the handle, but I don't think the handle is all that flexible.

If a guy only has $1000 a year of free cash for gambling, he's only going to lose $1000 regardless of whether the take is 17% or 5%. His handle may be higher at 5% because he'll have more money to plow back. He may go broke a lot slower, but in the end he'll only lose $1000 (probably a lot less!).

IMO you have to attract a LOT (a real lot) of new players for this to work for "the industry" even though it's obviously a great thing for players.

[Robert Goren]

The TDN piece said Christie retains veto power over the funds actually making it to the racetrack. I guess this refers to his ability to prevent the racing commission from distributing the funds that was reported a few weeks ago. This is where NJSBOA President Luchento said something like "he can't be that devious, can he?" We'll seeHe is a politician who is eying higher office. That all you need to know about Christie. That aside, I really doubt this gets of the ground. The fees will be to high. It can't work with a 17% takeout like NJ has now. I can't see the horsemen standing still for 5% takeout or less that will needed for this to have any chance of working.

[Some_One]

The one problem I can see with exchange wagering is that the tracks need "X" percent of the handle to maintain themselves, operate, pay purses etc... The commissions on exchanges are so small, I don't see how the numbers add up.

I realize the goal is to expand the handle, but I don't think the handle is all that flexible.

If a guy only has $1000 a year of free cash for gambling, he's only going to lose $1000 regardless of whether the take is 17% or 5%. His handle may be higher at 5% because he'll have more money to plow back. He may go broke a lot slower, but in the end he'll only lose $1000 (probably a lot less!).

IMO you have to attract a LOT (a real lot) of new players for this to work for "the industry" even though it's obviously a great thing for players.

Remember, exchange wagering is only viable for WPS wagering, tracks will still have their Tri and Super pools with 20-something % takeout

[onefast99]

He is a politician who is eying higher office. That all you need to know about Christie. That aside, I really doubt this gets of the ground. The fees will be to high. It can't work with a 17% takeout like NJ has now. I can't see the horsemen standing still for 5% takeout or less that will needed for this to have any chance of working.
They will have the exchange wagering set up when MP reopens in May. There will be a lot of confusion at first but once the bugs are ironed out people will gravitate to it.

[satrabyk]

Tuffmug: Betfair available to Canadians.

If Betfair is available to Americans say goodbye to North American racing. It is a very sophisticated and addictive betting platform where most people I know that use it rarely ever bet into the Tote any longer. The much lower takeout is also a major reason. I am talking about people that used to bet hundreds of thousands a year through Tote. Since I started in 2005 the infiltration of smart money into Betfair has been increasing steadily and therefore making tougher to profit leading me to believe that Americans through proxy servers are putting bets through. This was confirmed when a person I know while in Florida said he overheard a top American trainer bragging to a Canadian trainer about MAKING MORE MONEY ON BETFAIR THAN TRAINING HORSES. I feel sorry for the bridge jumper who bet $100k to show on a horse at SA on the weekend running in the second race that ran out of the money. That horse was 3-5 at the track but on Betfair substantial amounts were available at 7-5 or better. WHO WOULD OFFER 1000's OF $ AT 7-5 ON 3-5 SHOT ????

Because of this we tend to favour wagering on our home track where we feel we have a better chance and also were we get access to the in-house real-time video feed which is critical when betting on an exchange. As mentioned on other threads tracks are now using Dish Network to broadcast simulcast video feeds instead of the much faster C-Band system. The Gulfstream feed we get at Woodbine is now 9 seconds slower than real-time - did a test with someone actually there. The delay used to be 2-3 seconds with C-Band. Someone watching on HPITV would see it delayed another 5 seconds on top of the 9 seconds. This STUPID DECISION is definitely affecting handle on both Tote and Exchange(Betfair).

If tracks think that Exchanges are the solution to their problems think again. The people I refer to above are like myself - around 55 who have been betting on horses for over 30 years who now as a result of Betfair rarely put a dime through the Tote. Oh yes most of us have sons and daughters in their early 20's who have no interest in the sport at all - exchange or no exchange.

[Some_One]

Tuffmug: Betfair available to Canadians.

If Betfair is available to Americans say goodbye to North American racing. It is a very sophisticated and addictive betting platform where most people I know that use it rarely ever bet into the Tote any longer. The much lower takeout is also a major reason. I am talking about people that used to bet hundreds of thousands a year through Tote. Since I started in 2005 the infiltration of smart money into Betfair has been increasing steadily and therefore making tougher to profit leading me to believe that Americans through proxy servers are putting bets through. This was confirmed when a person I know while in Florida said he overheard a top American trainer bragging to a Canadian trainer about MAKING MORE MONEY ON BETFAIR THAN TRAINING HORSES. I feel sorry for the bridge jumper who bet $100k to show on a horse at SA on the weekend running in the second race that ran out of the money. That horse was 3-5 at the track but on Betfair substantial amounts were available at 7-5 or better. WHO WOULD OFFER 1000's OF $ AT 7-5 ON 3-5 SHOT ????

Because of this we tend to favour wagering on our home track where we feel we have a better chance and also were we get access to the in-house real-time video feed which is critical when betting on an exchange. As mentioned on other threads tracks are now using Dish Network to broadcast simulcast video feeds instead of the much faster C-Band system. The Gulfstream feed we get at Woodbine is now 9 seconds slower than real-time - did a test with someone actually there. The delay used to be 2-3 seconds with C-Band. Someone watching on HPITV would see it delayed another 5 seconds on top of the 9 seconds. This STUPID DECISION is definitely affecting handle on both Tote and Exchange(Betfair).

If tracks think that Exchanges are the solution to their problems think again. The people I refer to above are like myself - around 55 who have been betting on horses for over 30 years who now as a result of Betfair rarely put a dime through the Tote. Oh yes most of us have sons and daughters in their early 20's who have no interest in the sport at all - exchange or no exchange.

I would agree those on Betfair are better/smarter then those on the tote...but satrabyk if you know there are crooked trainers out there on Betfair, how about naming names, anyone can make random faceless accusations

[DeanT]

Gotta be careful using the anecdotal. For someone who says "all I do is play win pools now" there are others who have left wagering and now play only because of betfair, and have the tote open and bet millions again.

In AUS, where the tote was supposed to get destroyed because of betfair, the opposite happened. In 2010, they set a tote handle record, while fixed odds wagering through betfair was up 35%. This of course was during the "bad economy" we hear so much of blamed for handle losses here.

When you have more eyeballs on your product, you have a chance to grow. If you squeeze people out, you have no chance to grow.

[Charlie D]

riginally Posted by satrabyk
I feel sorry for the bridge jumper who bet $100k to show on a horse at SA on the weekend running in the second race that ran out of the money. That horse was 3-5 at the track but on Betfair substantial amounts were available at 7-5 or better. WHO WOULD OFFER 1000's OF $ AT 7-5 ON 3-5 SHOT ????


Those players who think a horse is wrong price. :rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

I'm interested in the exchange b/c I want to be able to bet against a horse. Of coarse, this is some what contrary to the way most Americans think. Watch how many people will put down a bet on the don't come line in craps -- not too many.

[Patrick333]

I think I'll just see how it works out.

[craigbraddick]

I will put it simply:

Exchange wagering (as long as the host track gets a cut) is the future. Lawmakers and Politicians who oppose it because of moral reasons, ignorance or greed need a one way trip to the Dole Office.

Craig