Santa Anita handle down almost 30% today

[jelly]

Santa Anita handle down almost 30% today.
$6,614,692
$4,679,794

On track attendance down 34%.
4,824
3,191


This is the worse % drop I've seen this year so far this meet.

Will the TOC rescind the takeout?

[Southieboy]

comparing last year or last week?

[Bruddah]

No matter the reasons, when customers go away, especially mad or upset, it takes a lot for them to return. Horse Racing as a whole has sent many longtime customers in search of other venues for their action. I believe California racing has killed the Goose that laid the golen eggs. The golden geese (customers) were tired of being cooked and have flown the coop.

[andymays]

This is what they use. I believe the figures are from www.chrims.com

http://www.calracing.com/handle-reports.php

[jelly]

comparing last year

[andymays]

comparing last year

I don't think they'll update their figures until the week is over. As you know by now the figures from Equibase and CHRIMS don't always match.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Santa Anita handle down almost 30% today.
$6,614,692
$4,679,794

On track attendance down 34%.
4,824
3,191


This is the worse % drop I've seen this year so far this meet.

Will the TOC rescind the takeout?
Tampa Bay appears to be up around half a million today. So I don't think any of this has to do with Freehold canceling today.

[gm10]

not being funny
but the audience @ SA seems to be louder in a weird way these days
I say weird because they don't seem more excited, it's more like dudes expressing "yes we have real racing again" by shouting- the loudness doesn't seem to about the race itself

[CincyHorseplayer]

not being funny
but the audience @ SA seems to be louder in a weird way these days
I say weird because they don't seem more excited, it's more like dudes expressing "yes we have real racing again" by shouting- the loudness doesn't seem to about the race itself

Somebody on here said they have piped in crowd noise for the illusion effect!

[Igeteven]

This is not a laughing joke, the ship is sinking

[BlueShoe]

Cannot blame this one on bad weather. Gorgeous spring like conditions all week in SoCal.

[takeout]

No matter the reasons, when customers go away, especially mad or upset, it takes a lot for them to return.Agree totally. This stuff is pissing me off and I’ve never even bet there.

In what kind of bizarro world does a track take 22.68% out of exactas and consider itself a major venue? I don’t know what those guys are smoking but they probably won’t be able to afford it much longer.

I believe California racing has killed the Goose that laid the golen eggs.Me too.

[Vinman]

Haven't been paying much attention to the CA takeout controversy. At the risk of sounding like an idiot....just who is pocketing the extra takeout? Is Frank being reimbursed for re-doing the track?

[NJ Stinks]

Tomorrow is Sunshine Millions Day. I look forward to it every January.

I'll be playing the Gulfstream Millions races with gusto. But not one dollar will be bet by me in the Santa Anita Millions races tomorrow. A shame but they did it to themselves.

[andymays]

The main problem is the TOC and the CHRB not Santa Anita. They just happen to be the track running at the time of the takeout increase.

[JohnGalt1]

Tomorrow is Sunshine Millions Day. I look forward to it every January.

I'll be playing the Gulfstream Millions races with gusto. But not one dollar will be bet by me in the Santa Anita Millions races tomorrow. A shame but they did it to themselves.

I'll go one step farther. This'll be the first year in how-ever-many-years-I've played, but won't play it at all because of the pick 3/4 crossovers between the two tracks.

[Tom]

not being funny
but the audience @ SA seems to be louder in a weird way these days
I say weird because they don't seem more excited, it's more like dudes expressing "yes we have real racing again" by shouting- the loudness doesn't seem to about the race itself

Zenyatta Fan has not left the grounds yet.

[Robert Goren]

Haven't been paying much attention to the CA takeout controversy. At the risk of sounding like an idiot....just who is pocketing the extra takeout? Is Frank being reimbursed for re-doing the track?It goes to purses.

[OTM Al]

Tomorrow is Sunshine Millions Day. I look forward to it every January.

I'll be playing the Gulfstream Millions races with gusto. But not one dollar will be bet by me in the Santa Anita Millions races tomorrow. A shame but they did it to themselves.

Congrats. You have fallen victim to the Magna bait and switch. Gulfstream raised rates on some bets this year too and those bets have even higher take than SA.....

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Congrats. You have fallen victim to the Magna bait and switch. Gulfstream raised rates on some bets this year too and those bets have even higher take than SA.....
I would normally agree with this, but Santa Anita's blended rate has increased by 2 points (which works out to over 10% when it comes to how much the average player will now lose).
GP, by adding the 15% Pick 5, may have actually reduced blended rate a little, even though takeout went up in supers (this year) and triactors (last year).
Blended rate at GP is probably very close to what it was in 2009.

[Spiderman]

Tomorrow is Sunshine Millions Day. I look forward to it every January.

I'll be playing the Gulfstream Millions races with gusto. But not one dollar will be bet by me in the Santa Anita Millions races tomorrow. A shame but they did it to themselves.
Ditto

[OTM Al]

I would normally agree with this, but Santa Anita's blended rate has increased by 2 points (which works out to over 10% when it comes to how much the average player will now lose).
GP, by adding the 15% Pick 5, may have actually reduced blended rate a little, even though takeout went up in supers (this year) and triactors (last year).
Blended rate at GP is probably very close to what it was in 2009.

Blended rate...right. And where do I place bets with that rate? So the introduction of the bait, the one P5, makes up for the 1 point increase on the 18-20 tris and supers over the whole card....

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Blended rate...right. And where do I place bets with that rate? So the introduction of the bait, the one P5, makes up for the 1 point increase on the 18-20 tris and supers over the whole card....
Every bettor is different. Some players may have a higher blended because of the change in takeouts while some may now have a lower one.
It all depends on the collective numbers per type of bet, if the blended rate is down or not.
I know you understand blended rate so I won't give an example, but it isn't difficult to figure out if blended rose or dropped or stayed the same.

[the little guy]

Blended rate...right. And where do I place bets with that rate? So the introduction of the bait, the one P5, makes up for the 1 point increase on the 18-20 tris and supers over the whole card....


Why even argue with someone making such an inane point? Obviously the proper way to " blend " the take would be to pro-rate it by handle on each bet at each takeout. Somehow, in this case, I don't think that would " blend " close to a reduction...or even just par.

The spinning from some is so transparent that it makes all their other points suspect as well.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Why even argue with someone making such an inane point? Obviously the proper way to " blend " the take would be to pro-rate it by handle on each bet at each takeout. Somehow, in this case, I don't think that would " blend " close to a reduction...or even just par.

The spinning from some is so transparent that it makes all their other points suspect as well.
You are correct. I just checked yesterday's PP's, and the extra point on supers and tris brought them an extra $15,000 approximately in hold (cost to customers). I'm not going to figure out the blended rate, but lets assume it is 21%. Horseplayers are getting an extra 6% of $85k that was bet into the pick 5 pool yesterday, which is only around 5k. So the blended rate has increased.

Triactors and supers appear to be 1/4 of the total pools there, so according to my crude math, taking into consideration the pick 5, we might be looking at a .35% increase in blended rate.

Thanks for correcting me.

[chickenhead]

Gulfstream isn't a good guy in this, there are no good guys. Praising them for their Pick 5 being a good bet isn't any different than praising PM for their Pick 4. I don't remember people reading so much into anyone saying "hey PM, good job on the Pick 4!". It doesn't mean PM is now the poster boy for anyone so far as goodness and righteousness.

A 15% pick 5 is a good bet. Good job Gulfstream. Everything else you do sucks...but good job on the Pick 5. Do more of that.

[cj]

Gulfstream isn't a good guy in this, there are no good guys. Praising them for their Pick 5 being a good bet isn't any different than praising PM for their Pick 4. I don't remember people reading so much into anyone saying "hey PM, good job on the Pick 4!". It doesn't mean PM is now the poster boy for anyone so far as goodness and righteousness.

A 15% pick 5 is a good bet. Good job Gulfstream. Everything else you do sucks...but good job on the Pick 5. Do more of that.

I think this exactly right. There is no way the blended take is less, or even the same, even with the P5. (I see now this was already proven by another poster). Al is right , Santa Anita is taking the brunt of the wrath of bettors, but GP has also raised takeout. They don't deserve any praise either, especially considering the other shenanigans they have going on this meet.

Is the P5 at 15% a great bet if the horse you single in the first leg night be scratched after betting opens even if the track knows the horse will be scratched at noon?

[DeanT]

I think this exactly right. There is no way the blended take is less, or even the same, even with the P5. (I see now this was already proven by another poster). Al is right , Santa Anita is taking the brunt of the wrath of bettors, but GP has also raised takeout. They don't deserve any praise either, especially considering the other shenanigans they have going on this meet.


That is the general point and I think people are wise to know that. The major difference is that with GP we as horseplayers actually have a chance to move things forward. We have been speaking with the new management for about a month only. In 12 months (actually even less time than that perhaps) things have a chance to be better, and if so, 2013 and so on. In CA and some other places there is zero chance to move things forward.

Woodbine is the other track right at this moment that looks to be changing. When they added 150k to their pick 6 to try it there was a "good job Woodbine" even though their takeout was horrid and their track record was poor, and they were the bane of HANA, this board and everyone else. Now a year later things are in the works to lower tri wagering and super wagering takes by a full 4% - that is huge. Four years ago this track raised their pick 4 take from 15% to 26%.

We have to read and recognize things wont happen overnight, but we just need to have things move in a semi-good direction so tomorrow might be better than today. Tracks that are amenable to that are the ones to work on.

If the GP takeout is 0.3% higher this meet blended (it is surely lower than that with up to 5% rebates on tris and supers at Betamerica, PTC etc etc), next year is the tipping point. Will GP play ball and get it lower? If so, they deserve praise. If not, they are what they are and horseplayers will cross that bridge when it comes.

[chickenhead]

at the end of the day I don't even think it matters. The whole "why cali and not X, because X does Y which sucks too" is beside the point. "Everyone treats you players shitty, why pick on us".

Who cares why, who cares if its consistent, who cares whether its fair. Horseplayers drew Cali out of a hat, make that the reason if you want. Cali is being targeted totally at random. It still leaves Cali with the exact same decision..."What are you gonna do about it?"

All the bad press is focused on you, everyone is watching you, everyone is pissed off at you. And you DID do something very bad. What are you going to do about it?

It's not like anything horseplayers did was working before...trying something new is by definition a good idea. Why Cali? Just because, if you want. Why all the bad press focused on one circuit only? Because there is only so much focus to go around, putting it all on one place makes that place very, very uncomfortable.

I'll take inconsistent, unfair, and effective any day of the week over some of the alternatives. Regardless of what anyone says, anywhere, no track wants to be the "next California" so far as this thing goes.

If this is effective -- giving a bit of a momentary blind eye to everyone else while very publicly kicking the absolute crap out of a premier circuit isn't really something to worry about. They will all remember the ass kicking, more than anything.

[toussaud]

I gotta be honest.. I kinda wish I was there yesterday for the food truck event. I would have had a blast.

[classhandicapper]

I can't explain the attendance drop, but it wouldn't shock me if the "total handle" numbers are being impacted a little by the loss of NYCOTB. The major CA tracks were pretty popular with those bettors.

[Stillriledup]

I can't explain the attendance drop, but it wouldn't shock me if the "total handle" numbers are being impacted a little by the loss of NYCOTB. The major CA tracks were pretty popular with those bettors.

I think you would see all tracks drop a bit, is this true for every track?

[classhandicapper]

I think you would see all tracks drop a bit, is this true for every track?

I don't know. I started a thread on this issue.

Some tracks were way more popular with OTB patrons than others and some did great, but only on NYRA dark days. It's hard to trace it all because NYRA picked up some OTB phone accounts, some people are probably going to AQU/BEL and betting other tracks from there, and some may still be playing at Nassau Downs OTB. However, I'm sure there's still an impact nationally.

[Southieboy]

Couldn't even hit $7 mil today.

Handles for 2/26/11:
AQU: $7,319,537
TAM: $6,258,917
GP: $17,260,887
SA: $6,782,698

[toussaud]

bunch of scratches, off the turf races though. wouldn't read too much into it (seriously)

[dansan]

when you pay $4.00 gallon for gas you cant afford to play the ponies!

[Igeteven]

Gulfstream tearing up Santa Anita handle-SA is in the toilet

Postby Igeteven » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:48 pm
Betting from California and through the United States has gone south, what I mean, out of State players are going South to play at Gulfstream and Tampa.

Very Low Mutual Day for Santa Anita

$6.8 million from which $2.9 million out of state.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Huge Mutual Day For Gulfstream Park
===================================
$17.2 million from which $14.9 million out of state


If these figures are correct. Santa Anita has become second class,

This is a sad day for California Racing. If HP doesn't do something to change the concept of racing here, HP will get a Pearl Harbor like it has never seen before.

So people what do you think.

[Robert Goren]

The fact that a track with the kind of horses that run at Tampa is even close in handle should tell the powers that be at SA something. That something is you are doing something very wrong.

[jelly]

They know what their doing in California. :lol: :bang: :confused:

[Robert Goren]

Gulfstream doing only 2.3 million in state is nothing write home about either.

[David-LV]

The fact that a track with the kind of horses that run at Tampa is even close in handle should tell the powers that be at SA something. That something is you are doing something very wrong.

Robert,

I couldn't agree with you more, unlike California you have a chance to make a little money in Florida when you come up with the right numbers.


_______
David-LV

[Zman179]

I'm quite happy to see the California product go down into the toilet. The horsemen stood and clapped when they found out that they were going to enrichen themselves by charging the bettors more. Well, congratulations on turning your once proud circuit into a second class embarrassment.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Well it looks like Robert Goren has seen the light. http://i52.tinypic.com/de44eg.gif

Andy Mays is reporting that the California horsemen would rather create
another wagering pool at a palatable takeout rate than to
rescind the new higher exotics takeout rates.

I read it as:
a) California racing does not want to address the root of why their business is failing. The real reason why many customers have shunned their racing problem: Extortionary exotics takeout rates.

b) They additionally want to siphon off more horseplayer funds and take their cuts from the newly created wagering pools. Will these funds address the problem of diminishing field sizes? Probably not.

c) It is only a matter of time when the WPS takeouts are upped to 17 or 18%
to keep the game afloat - temporarily - before the roof caves in or the Breeders Cup makes a return to Santa Anita. Anything to make a fast buck.
Just the way John J.Brunetti sr. did it at Hialeah for his swan song.

[rycommon]

They just don't want to admit they were wrong. As long as the purses don't go down, the TOC don't really care. Real short sighted, think only of today and not for the future. I can't understand the breeders though, they need to look more long term. Oh well, I can bet anywhere in the country through my ADW and will continue to do so. Live 5 minutes away from Santa Anita and been playing them since I was a kid 35+ years now. Pains me to not play them anymore, but the longer this goes on the less chance that I will return even if they rescind the takeout raise. It is the principle of it. Only way to save this game we love. If california can get away with this, who will be next. This boycott is a statement to all race tracks.

By the way, I use to have season tickets to Los alamitos day night double headers were great. Have not gone there in quite a while. have not even look at their PP's for fun even. I doubt that I will ever bet them again.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Pains me to not play them anymore, but the longer this goes on the
less chance that I will return even if they rescind the takeout raise.
It is the principle of it. Only way to save this game we love.

If california can get away with this, who will be next.
This boycott is a statement to all race tracks.



I'd think TOC/CHRB would have a gripe if the takeout increases actually
led to the promised field size increases. That has not happened.
Instead someone out there is getting fat in the wallet as a result of the
newly renegotiated contracts for the California signals and do not want to stop their cash flow. Greed. Pure and simple.

Eventually the redwoods will come down crashing. It will be very difficult for California racing to become a viable national signal after an implosion like that.