Egypt

[bigmack]

Entertaining to watch media coverage. MSNBC is ready to hire a Greyhound and bus Hosni Mubarak out of the country and let the people free. :D

On a side note, I play chess with a woman who plays with several Egyptian doctors on Skype. About 3 weeks ago they said they could no longer talk with her because they thought their conversations could be heard and they had some involvement with "things."

Can we send Jimmy Cartier over to negotiate something with that Suez Canal?

[ArlJim78]

pulling the plug on the internet, I don't think that was the best idea to get everyone to settle down.

[Tom]

His copter would crash in the desert and they would take over the canal.
It would take us 444 days to get it back.

Assuming, of course, we can find another Reagan.

Meanwhile, enjoy your misery index.

[bigmack]

pulling the plug on the internet, I don't think that was the best idea to get everyone to settle down.
A Government's worst fear in 2011. Facebook & Twitter. :bang:

[Tom]

Our government's worse fear is Biden on Twitter! :eek:

[Tom]

Good strategy by our State Department.
Hilary is criticizing Egyptian authorities and telling the people to stop the demonstrations.

What better way to clam down 82 million muslims than have an American women tell them what to do!

[TJDave]

For years, we've been campaigning for democracy in the Muslim world. Now the chickens have come home to roost. :rolleyes:

[Marshall Bennett]

Expect Obama to take the same approach Carter did with The Shah of Iran. Nothing. Egypt may well become another Iran. How many will follow?

[boxcar]

Expect Obama to take the same approach Carter did with The Shah of Iran. Nothing. Egypt may well become another Iran. How many will follow?

Very astute observation. Iran is applauding and supporting the upheaval and chaos over there.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

For years, we've been campaigning for democracy in the Muslim world. Now the chickens have come home to roost. :rolleyes:

Got that right. Islam and Democracy mix as about as well as oil and water.

Boxcar

[TJDave]

Iran is applauding and supporting the upheaval and chaos over there.

Boxcar

The Mullahs are also nervous. Remember.. The overthrow of the Shah begun by pro-democracy groups was co-opted by Muslim extremists. I predict the same happening in Egypt. And, if not for the strong military hold of Hussein, Jordan could be next.

I would imagine lots of hand-wringing in Israel. :rolleyes:

[FantasticDan]

Good strategy by our State Department.
Hilary is criticizing Egyptian authorities and telling the people to stop the demonstrations. What better way to clam down 82 million muslims than have an American women tell them what to do!

Reality translation:

Earlier Friday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the U.S. is "deeply concerned" about the use of violence in putting down the protests, in which as many as eight demonstrators may have died since Tuesday.

"We call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain security forces," Clinton said at a press conference Friday. "At the same time, protesters should also refrain from violence and express themselves peacefully."

[TJDave]

"We call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain security forces," Clinton said at a press conference Friday. "At the same time, protesters should also refrain from violence and express themselves peacefully."[/I]

Fence-sitting can be hazardous to your ass.

[Rookies]

Fence-sitting can be hazardous to your ass.

As opposed to:

EXACTLY what ?

Everybody's a brilliant strategist in hind sight after the bullets start flying to end the protests. Egypt is a historic Muslim country with many, dirt poor people.

What's to be offered them ? Who should do it ? How should it be done ?

[TJDave]

As opposed to:
EXACTLY what ?


Picking the side that is in OUR best interest and supporting it wholeheartedly.

[Steve R]

Picking the side that is in OUR best interest and supporting it wholeheartedly.
That's right, if a brutal dictator is in the US' best interest, then support him over his people's right to self-determination. Unfortunately that is exactly the recent history of American foreign policy. And Americans wonder why they are so despised.

[boxcar]

That's right, if a brutal dictator is in the US' best interest, then support him over his people's right to self-determination. Unfortunately that is exactly the recent history of American foreign policy. And Americans wonder why they are so despised.

Oh, you mean kinda like Iran is doing by supporting the chaos and mayhem no doubt propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood -- a really neat and nifty "freedom-loving" bunch of radicals? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[bigmack]

And Americans wonder why they are so despised.
Quick question; do you despise Americans?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Quick question; do you despise Americans?

Suspecting long response without answer.

[bigmack]

Suspecting long response without answer.
He's too much of a coward to answer but I'll wait nonetheless.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lasj24jQWe1qe0eclo1_500.gif

[Steve R]

Oh, you mean kinda like Iran is doing by supporting the chaos and mayhem no doubt propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood -- a really neat and nifty "freedom-loving" bunch of radicals? :rolleyes:

Boxcar
Did I mention Iran or the Muslim Brotherhood? I don't think so. My comment was in response only to the idea proposed by TJDave that the US could abandon any commitment to self-determination in other parts of the world if it is in America's so-called best interest to do so. Other nations are fully aware of the US' backing of brutal dictators who support American policy and the demonization (and worse) of democratically-elected world leaders who don't. American interests must be considered, but in the end, if a country doesn't practice what it preaches, the hypocrisy becomes apparent and there are consequences. I think the expression of pent up anger directed against American puppet regimes throughout the Arab world that we are seeing today is one consequence. 9/11 was another. When people are allowed to make their own choices, those choices don't always turn out the way others would prefer. But that's what freedom is, like it or not. So if the US really believes in the fundamental principles driving democracy and freedom (which I seriously doubt), it shouldn't keep coming down on the wrong side of so many issues. But the fact is that almost all US policy decisions are business driven, so principle usually takes a back seat.

[Steve R]

Quick question; do you despise Americans?
No, only the behavior of the US government. I have no particular feeling about the American people one way or the other.

[Steve R]

He's too much of a coward to answer but I'll wait nonetheless.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lasj24jQWe1qe0eclo1_500.gif
Have you always been an asshole? Maybe you need to get laid more often.

[boxcar]

Did I mention Iran or the Muslim Brotherhood? I don't think so. My comment was in response only to the idea proposed by TJDave that the US could abandon any commitment to self-determination in other parts of the world if it is in America's so-called best interest to do so. Other nations are fully aware of the US' backing of brutal dictators who support American policy and the demonization (and worse) of democratically-elected world leaders who don't. American interests must be considered, but in the end, if a country doesn't practice what it preaches, the hypocrisy becomes apparent and there are consequences. I think the expression of pent up anger directed against American puppet regimes throughout the Arab world that we are seeing today is one consequence. 9/11 was another. When people are allowed to make their own choices, those choices don't always turn out the way others would prefer. But that's what freedom is, like it or not. So if the US really believes in the fundamental principles driving democracy and freedom (which I seriously doubt), it shouldn't keep coming down on the wrong side of so many issues. But the fact is that almost all US policy decisions are business driven, so principle usually takes a back seat.

Freedom and Islam? :lol: :lol: :lol: You're a real joke. Is there freedom in Iran? And who is Iran backing in this upheaval? Are they not backing the mobs? And the mob's anger is fueled by the Muslim Brotherhood, isn't it? Can you connect these dots? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BO is equally as clueless by already calling for reforms in Egypt. That reforms are a must. But wait...this was the same guy who once upon a time said that the U.S. must allow countries the freedom of self-determination and that the U.S. should not force its views upon anyone (except Israel, of course :rolleyes: ), so why is he butting his nose into Egypt's business and thereby fueling the fires of revolution and anarchy over there? He's giving encouragement to the street mobs and to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Plus the Clueless One has condemned the government shutting down the Internet, so that it could stifle communications among the mobs. But what do you think would happen in this country if the Tea Party said it's time for a revolution and we want to be free from tyranny and oppression? Do you think the U.S. government would keep the Internet open to traffic? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Have you always been an asshole? Maybe you need to get laid more often.
Goof comes to a US based site comprised mostly of Yanks, throws out "And Americans wonder why they are so despised", won't answer my question and calls me an asshole.

I laugh.

[boxcar]

Goof comes to a US based site comprised mostly of Yanks, throws out "And Americans wonder why they are so despised", won't answer my question and calls me an asshole.

I laugh.

I'm thinkin' our country might have disowned him. I could easily see why. :D

Boxcar

[Shemp Howard]

I just got a tip on a camel running tomorrow in the 4th race at Cairo Downs. Place it on Lucky Mohammed.

[ArlJim78]

That's right, if a brutal dictator is in the US' best interest, then support him over his people's right to self-determination. Unfortunately that is exactly the recent history of American foreign policy. And Americans wonder why they are so despised.
oh so we're despised worldwide, so where are all the foreign countries standing up to us and calling us out for this behavior?

specifically which brutal dictators have we recently backed who were not at the same time also recognized, supported, and backed by all other major powers?

[Marshall Bennett]

Obama may very well have his first real crisis on his hands. I'm really anxious to see how he handles it. I'm waiting.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... I have no particular feeling about the American people one way or the other.

Probably comes from being overworked understanding so uniquely the perspectives of the entire collective outside its borders.

[boxcar]

Obama may very well have his first real crisis on his hands. I'm really anxious to see how he handles it. I'm waiting.

He has already tipped his hand on how he's going to handle it. Instead of backing one of the strongest Muslim Mideast allies we have, he's already dictating to Mubarack what his responsibility is. And he has already criticized Mubarak's handling of the riotous mobs. This is all very predictable.

You want more evidence on how he's going to handle this crisis? Just listen to the LameStream media's support for the thugs and mobs. They're unabashedly supporting and applauding the chaos, anarchy and violence. Need I say more?

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

Need I say more?

Boxcar

No. But I don't think that's going to stop you.

[newtothegame]

No. But I don't think that's going to stop you.
Did anyone catch the plates of that drive by knat ....always with NOTHING to say??? lol

[boxcar]

Did anyone catch the plates of that drive by knat ....always with NOTHING to say??? lol

He's competing with Trots for the Drive-by-Poster of the Year Award. At least he spared of us one of his boring and predictable :sleeping: . :D

Boxcar

[boxcar]

No. But I don't think that's going to stop you.

You could stop me if you weren't such an empty barrel. But in the glaring absence of any substance from you, someone has to add to the other intelligent and rational contributions on this forum, and no one is more qualified than moi. :D

Boxcar

[Rookies]

You could stop me if you weren't such an empty barrel. But in the glaring absence of any substance from you, someone has to add to the other intelligent and rational contributions on this forum, and no one is more qualified than moi. :D

Intelligent and rational ? Please.

You're full of 2 things on this Forum; one being a highly inflated sense of your own self importance. No doubt you can define the other substance you're full of Boxie...;)

Put keep supporting the tyrants and despots around the world, especially those being paid off to be in America's interest. Contrary to your philosophical position, you simply can't keep the people down forever. Eventually, all people awake, arise and revolt against tryants who presume crumbs are appropriate for the masses when they are raking in millions or billions in this case.

[Robert Goren]

Mubarak was never an American puppet. He is as good as gone. The question is who takes over. My uninformed money is on some General we never heard of.

[Robert Goren]

P.S. Counting on 82 year old dictators under siege to stay in power is not good foreign policy.

[boxcar]

P.S. Counting on 82 year old dictators under siege to stay in power is not good foreign policy.

And it's even worse foreign policy to support the overthrow of friendly, supporting governments in favor or unknown forces taking over, especially when those "unknown forces" have the backing of the Iranian Islamofascist regime. Egypt, for the most part, in recent years has been a great stabilizing force in the Mideast and your in favor of tossing that for what...specifically?

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

You could stop me if you weren't such an empty barrel. But in the glaring absence of any substance from you, someone has to add to the other intelligent and rational contributions on this forum, and no one is more qualified than moi. :D

Boxcar

In another drive by sneak attack, I will say that you are a pretty good sport at the end of the day, Boxcar. :ThmbUp:

Other than that, I still have nothing of substance to say on the matter at hand.

[newtothegame]

I am not sure who some of you think the U.S is supporting in this matter....

Seems Box thinks we are supporting mubarek as an "ally"....

Ive seen several stories now where this would not be the case....

Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising

The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

[JustRalph]

After what happen to Sadat........ they are due for a little insurrection

[Greyfox]

This whole thing sounds like a pyramid scheme?

[prospector]

what bothers me is finding out we've been giving them 1 1/2 $$billion$$ dollars a year in aid..WTF! its time we stop that crap with all countries..especially those that produce oil..
oil prices are once again showing if we produced what we have here, we wouldn't give a damn about what goes on there..

[rastajenk]

Foreign aid to Egypt is part of the price of peace we pay for Israel. While no fan of foreign aid to a lot of countries that get it, in this particular case, I think it's probably been a good investment.

[Robert Goren]

what bothers me is finding out we've been giving them 1 1/2 $$billion$$ dollars a year in aid..WTF! its time we stop that crap with all countries..especially those that produce oil..
oil prices are once again showing if we produced what we have here, we wouldn't give a damn about what goes on there..This was a bribe to keep them from going to war with Israel. It was part of the Carter Camp David peace agreement reach agreement with Sadat. I never liked it, but it survived through 3 republican (Reagan and both Bushes) and an another democrat (Clinton). Obama is the first one to even question it, but I doubt that he will end it.

[Tom]

Reality translation:



There's that pesky reading skills deficiency popping up again.

[Tom]

Foreign aid to Egypt is part of the price of peace we pay for Israel. While no fan of foreign aid to a lot of countries that get it, in this particular case, I think it's probably been a good investment.

I'd rather give money to Israel and let them arm up to defend their own peace.

The only way we ever get peace in the ME is to obliterate one side or the other. I'm backing Israel.

[Spiderman]

From news reports of street action, people are friendly to military and despise the police. Mubarak fired the entire cabinet, but has done that before and it didn't appease the populist movement.

First, Tunisia, the spirit of revolt is spreading across Africa. The price of oil has spiraled-up - oil companies don't need much of an excuse, but have a good one in Mideast unrest.

The main concern for US is that a theocratic(read: Muslim extremist) government forms. For now, the main group supporting revolution are young, secular mainstream citizens.

[ArlJim78]

I wouldn't get your hopes up too high about the young, mainstream, secular aspect of this uprising. those young people will be used, just like the idealistic non-thinking Obamatons were in this country. it could end end up with some kind of Islamist/progressive hybrid. those groups will not let this crisis go to waste, they will step in promising great reforms and progress. when the supposed leader is El Baradei, who never had a discouraging word to say about Iran, I think caution should be the watchword.

[boxcar]

I am not sure who some of you think the U.S is supporting in this matter....

Seems Box thinks we are supporting mubarek as an "ally"....

Ive seen several stories now where this would not be the case....

Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising

The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

Officially we are supporting Mubarak -- even with taxpayers' dollars. But I'm not too surprised that behind the scenes we were conspiring with dissidents. Goes to show that we can't just glibly dismiss all conspiracy theories. Having said this, I think we're playing a very dangerous game over there. As Jim rightly said, IF this is a "secular" uprising, it won't stay secular for long. Eventually the radical Muslims will flex their anti-West muscles.

Boxcar

[Tom]

So, with the Suez Canal becoming a vital concern for us, here we sit, not drilling our own oil, while the one who is stopping it, Hussein Obama, keeps us dependent on the muslim world.

Go figure.

[canleakid]

BOTTOM LINE THE YOUNG PEOPLE, WANT THEIR DRUGS, SEX & ROCK AND ROLL, NOW WITH THE INTERNET THEY SEE WHAT THE REAL WORLD HAS TO OFFER, THEY DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN THEIR ANTIQUATED LIFE STYLE, THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!! I HAVE A FEW FRIENDS FROM THEIR, NO WAY THEY WILL EVER GO BACK TO THAT CRAPPY LIFE STYLE. ONE WILL BECOME A DOCTOR IN A FEW YEARS, THE OTHER WILL GET HIS MASTERS, GO BACK THEIR NEVER!!!!!

[boxcar]

BOTTOM LINE THE YOUNG PEOPLE, WANT THEIR DRUGS, SEX & ROCK AND ROLL, NOW WITH THE INTERNET THEY SEE WHAT THE REAL WORLD HAS TO OFFER, THEY DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN THEIR ANTIQUATED LIFE STYLE, THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!! I HAVE A FEW FRIENDS FROM THEIR, NO WAY THEY WILL EVER GO BACK TO THAT CRAPPY LIFE STYLE. ONE WILL BECOME A DOCTOR IN A FEW YEARS, THE OTHER WILL GET HIS MASTERS, GO BACK THEIR NEVER!!!!!

Trust me on this: The Muslim Brotherhood, Iran and all other radical Muslim extremists will not permit or tolerate a Westernized freedom-oriented culture in the Middle East. Ain't going to happen. The decadent lifestyles of drugs, sex, gambling, rock 'n' roll, etc. will be short lived by the "young people". Western culture with its capitalistic lifestyles will not be filling the vacuum left by Mubarak & Co. for any appreciable length of time. You can bank on this.

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

What's the over / under on the # of middle east countries turning Radical Muslim under Obama's watch? I need to go ALL IN on my Pinnacle account.....

[Tom]

We should openly welcome the desire for the people to be free of tyranny and to have self rule, as we should have in Iran and should have in China.

If we are going to talk the talk, we better be prepared to walk the walk.
Either we are what we say we are or we are not. Shit or get off the pot.
Free people are obligated to help others become free, no matter what the cost.


-vLX4wKPBuY&feature=related

[boxcar]

We should openly welcome the desire for the people to be free of tyranny and to have self rule, as we should have in Iran and should have in China.

If we are going to talk the talk, we better be prepared to walk the walk.
Either we are what we say we are or we are not. Shit or get off the pot.
Free people are obligated to help others become free, no matter what the cost.


-vLX4wKPBuY&feature=related

Then as a nation we must be prepared to sacrifice our sons and daughters so that others can live freely. We could pay a very steep price for other people's freedom. Not only this but "meddling" into the affairs of other countries poses some sticky ethical problems, as well. I'm not suggesting by any means that we turn our backs on our real friends in the world (of which there are very few, by the way); all I'm saying is that we had better sit down and calculate the costs before injecting ourselves into other nations' political affairs.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Then as a nation we must be prepared to sacrifice our sons and daughters so that others can live freely. We could pay a very steep price for other people's freedom. Not only this but "meddling" into the affairs of other countries poses some sticky ethical problems, as well. I'm not suggesting by any means that we turn our backs on our real friends in the world (of which there are very few, by the way); all I'm saying is that we had better sit down and calculate the costs before injecting ourselves into other nations' political affairs.

Boxcar

Poor deluded Boxie and his usual right wing revisionist history lesson.:sleeping: As though, the U.S. has been sitting on the sideline, twiddling their collective thumbs, since the invocation of the Monroe Doctrine. :lol: The facts are that the U.S. has been involved hot and heavy and virtually everywhere on the planet through traditional and especially covert ops for the past 60 years!

Tom again, has become the voice of right wing reason here.

Either you have principles or you don't in the pursuit of freedom. You Boxcar, are the first to castigate the President and the Government for kowtowing to the Chinese government or any leftist, authoritarian state and failing to bring up lessons on liberty. But put any Pinochet, Mubarek or any brutal, militarist despot in charge and you suddenly lose your tongue, as long as they are cozy with U.S. geopolitical interests.

It is precisely that position that ensures that the U.S. continues to have few allies across the world. When oppressed peoples stand up to be counted, after decades of subjugation, they should not be hearing deafening silence from the worlds' leaders of freedom and democracy.

At the very least, their cries need to be echoed and amplified, as I believe the Secretary of State is doing.

[ArlJim78]

wow, so now the thinking is that Mubarak is a brutal tyrant? where have you people been the last thirty years? I've never heard that one before. I don't remember Clinton making any calls for an orderly transition and for free and fair elections until just a few days ago. I don't recall any parts of Obama's Cairo speech where he called for free and fair elections in Egypt, or condemned the so-called tyrannical Mubarak regime. What is the track record of this Muslim Brotherhood group who seems to be taking over the reins? Are they known for democracy or free and fair elections? It is being reported that this is the motto of the Muslim Botherhood,
“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope”

Nothing in there about democracy or elections that I can see. Oh and of course they don't like the west or Israel either, but that goes without saying. so you folks who want the US to jump in head first and support the protestors, are in effect working on behalf of the Muslim Brotherhood.
did you happen to notice that the protests in the US on behalf of the Egyptian protestors were made by communists?

Its not a simple black and white moment, yes we want to promote democracy and support people who want to be free, but...

[bigmack]

Its not a simple black and white moment, yes we want to promote democracy and support people who want to be free, but...
They find little nuance in these moments. As I mentioned in the genesis of this thread the usual media outlets are playing this up as simply citizens wanting 'freedom' and Mubarak as a tyrant. Much more complicated than that.

Not unlike feminists of yesteryear burning their bras in protest. Next thing I knew I was waking up to women with underarm hair. There has to be limits to these things! :eek:

[Robert Goren]

The Middle East and North Africa are some of the very last places which have ruling families. They may or may not call themselves kings. It is a form of government whose time has past. Change is coming for good or bad if not now very soon. The quickest and surest way to see these countries fall under the rule of Radical Islam is to stand with these rulers to the bitter end. Jimmy Carter's decision to allow the Shah into this country turned the people of Iran against us into the hands of the Zealots which run it now. It may have gone that way anyhow, but Carter forced it.

[ArlJim78]

well it looks like our secretary of state did go to Cairo and make a speech urging Egypt to stand up for democracy and elections and freedom. It was in 2005!

mVMTAteEkjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVMTAteEkjM&feature=player_embedded

[boxcar]

Poor deluded Boxie and his usual right wing revisionist history lesson.:sleeping: As though, the U.S. has been sitting on the sideline, twiddling their collective thumbs, since the invocation of the Monroe Doctrine. :lol: The facts are that the U.S. has been involved hot and heavy and virtually everywhere on the planet through traditional and especially covert ops for the past 60 years!

I'm deluded!? Who is talking HISTORY here? It wasn't me! I was merely commenting on Tom's post about propagating freedom around the world and taking that foreign policy to what, in many cases, could be the extreme conclusion, which would be war. History was the farthest thing from my mind. I was simply looking at Tom's position from a biblical and ethical position, not from an historical perspective. Go back and reread my post and try to comprehend it this time.

Either you have principles or you don't in the pursuit of freedom.

What does this mindless platitude mean? :rolleyes: We already have freedom in this country, so what are you talking about when you say "pursuit"?

You Boxcar, are the first to castigate the President and the Government for kowtowing to the Chinese government or any leftist, authoritarian state and failing to bring up lessons on liberty.3

So? What does this have to do with the price of a rickshaw ride in China? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I would be critical of any commie nation violating people's God-given rights, but that doesn't mean I would necessarily be in favor of sending in the U.S. Calvary in to rescue those people. For your info, I have a fairly strong Libertarian bent when it comes to foreign policy. I think the U.S., historically, has stuck its nose into too many nations' business unwisely. One of the biggest mistakes we ever made was Vietnam. But an even greater mistake was made in that war when we decided to fight but not win it.

But put any Pinochet, Mubarek or any brutal, militarist despot in charge and you suddenly lose your tongue, as long as they are cozy with U.S. geopolitical interests.

And I echo Jim's sentiments about Mubarak. Just when did he become the scourge of this planet? Where are all the U.S. sanctions against Egypt? Has the U.N. or the U.S. drawn up a huge list of human rights violations over the course of years? You're a joke, Rooks. All of sudden, Egypt has become the epitome of evil in the world, when in fact Egypt was a stabilizing force in the Middle East. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It is precisely that position that ensures that the U.S. continues to have few allies across the world. When oppressed peoples stand up to be counted, after decades of subjugation, they should not be hearing deafening silence from the worlds' leaders of freedom and democracy.

It doesn't help either when BO grossly insulted our strongest ally in the world England, as he did very early on his presidency. That really scored him a lot of points with the Brits. So, do me a favor: Go email your boy and advise him on what to do to win friends and influence people for good. Maybe send him a copy of Dale Carnegie's book on the topic. :rolleyes:

At the very least, their cries need to be echoed and amplified, as I believe the Secretary of State is doing.

Well, just make sure you keep the volume low on your boob tube. I wouldn't want you to go deaf. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Condi was criticized for that speech. Funny how that works huh?

Why is it that all over the net the Libs are talking about the "seeds of freedom" and the "spread of democracy" and hailing Obama's support of it?

Yet these same people scowled at the purple fingers of Iraqi citizens ?

[JustRalph]

saw this article after my last post.... hmmmmm......

Remember that "Bush being vindicated by history" meme we used to hear about?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012803144.html

"Egypt protests show George W. Bush was right about freedom in the Arab world

For decades, the Arab states have seemed exceptions to the laws of politics and human nature. While liberty expanded in many parts of the globe, these nations were left behind, their "freedom deficit" signaling the political underdevelopment that accompanied many other economic and social maladies. " Bush laid it out here in 2003 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7991-2003Nov6.html)


More at the link(s)

[Tom]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.

That DAMNED Bush again! :rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

well it looks like our secretary of state did go to Cairo and make a speech urging Egypt to stand up for democracy and elections and freedom. It was in 2005!

mVMTAteEkjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVMTAteEkjM&feature=player_embeddedgreat speech. condi is a very classy person and also a qualified person to run this country from a foreign policy standpoint, she might be pretty good domestically as well with her enormous background in life. one thing for sure she was a very bright light in the bush administration.

[boxcar]

I'm not impressed at all by Boehner's opinion on BO's handling of this crisis in Egypt. His grasp on the gravity of the situation over there appears to be pretty superficial. I was never completely sold on Boehner; for he has said things in the past that had me wondering if he was just a well disguised establishment guy. His statement today has me leaning further in this direction, as he appears to be a typical, unprincipled politician that gets his moral bearing from his wet thumb held up in the wind. He appears to be in the establishment crowd that says, "let's go along to get a long". He merely echos the leftist rhetoric. Cute.

Our Administration so far has handled this tense situation pretty well. Clearly reforms need to occur in Egypt. And frankly, anyplace around the world where people are calling out for freedom and democracy I think we have a responsibility to respond. I think listening to the Egyptian people, working with the government, to bring more democratic reforms is all in the right direction. … What we don’t want are radical ideologies to take control of a very large and important country in the Middle East. … There are legitimate grievances that the Egyptian people have. And they need to be addressed. Whether that is through free and fair elections, whether it’s through more democratic reforms in the short-term, I think all of these again are moving in the right direction.

So, he's all in favor of Obama essentially kicking Mubarak when he's down. Don't forget: In Obama's mind, transition (replacement government) was a forgone conclusion very early on in this crisis. Even JoeBitMe had enough sense to get something right when he said that he wouldn't consider Mubarak to be a dictator.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258400/john-boehner-egypt-nro-staff

Boxcar

[lamboguy]

probably no matter who the president is they would be saying the exact same thing. its really not a matter of political policy, he is just muttering what he is told by the state department which is not supposed to be biased by any political party.

[boxcar]

probably no matter who the president is they would be saying the exact same thing. its really not a matter of political policy, he is just muttering what he is told by the state department which is not supposed to be biased by any political party.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, okay... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Exactly what we need in the Speaker -- another mindless robot. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Jay Trotter]

I'm not impressed at all by Boehner's opinion on BO's handling of this crisis in Egypt. His grasp on the gravity of the situation over there appears to be pretty superficial. I was never completely sold on Boehner...

Boxcar


Now, you throw Boehner under the bus! You really are a piece of work. Since you are the smartest one in the room, why don't you run for office? :faint:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Now, you throw Boehner under the bus! You really are a piece of work. Since you are the smartest one in the room, why don't you run for office? :faint:

There's no real point in defending Boxcar since I'm sure you will be in receipt of six paragraphs for every sentence offered -

But what exactly is the criticism here?

This whole place is full of opinion that generally reads as critique; that's basically most of what goes on down here.

I think Boxcar knows you don't like him if that was the criticism.

[Greyfox]

Now, you throw Boehner under the bus!

I've given up on Boehner too.
He seems to shed so many tears so often that I'm wondering if he's got a drinking problem.

[Rookies]

wow, so now the thinking is that Mubarak is a brutal tyrant? where have you people been the last thirty years? I've never heard that one before.

Well Jim, I guess you either haven’t been watching or listening carefully, don’t research indices of freedoms ( Egypt ranks 96th.), or don’t have any former Egyptians as friends. I have some and they all call for Mubarak to step down. He is a despot only secured by the amount of U.S. baksheesh pumped into his personal pockets. His family has already departed for Switzerland and their bank accounts that have robbed the Egyptian people blind over the many years of his dictatorship. Biden was badly prepared for that question on whether the term dictator was appropriate and took the high road. Tonight, Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei replied to CNN: “ Really ? I know Joe well. Let him come here and try and find any citizen that doesn’t think he’s a dictator ."

Nothing in there about democracy or elections that I can see.

]You can say that about 2/3rds of the earth’s membership. There are so many strongmen, tyrants and dictators of all stripes who will not willingly give up their power freely to any token use of universal suffrage.

Its not a simple black and white moment, yes we want to promote democracy and support people who want to be free, but...

No, it’s not Jim. But, it is precisely because Egypt is a historic Muslim nation, with a strong intellectual and knowledgeable middle class, that the time has come to push for reform and freedoms. These may never approach all of those found in Western democracies, but some may be formulated. It’s the gamble worth taking to show, that the U.S is, as many Egyptians have commented, on the correct side of history.

]Robert has the right take here: “Jimmy Carter's decision to allow the Shah into this country turned the people of Iran against us into the hands of the Zealots which run it now. It may have gone that way anyhow, but Carter forced it.” Precisely- learn from your mistakes, don’t duplicate historical failures.


BTW, I’ve always thought Condi Rice was the brains of the Bush government. That speech though, was never gonna fly after Bush’s abject policy failures, especially with the Muslim world. I think she’d be an excellent addition to the Obama Cabinet.

[boxcar]

Now, you throw Boehner under the bus! You really are a piece of work. Since you are the smartest one in the room, why don't you run for office? :faint:

The government couldn't afford me, that's why.

Besides, you should be a happy camper and celebrate my honesty, fairness, balance and lack of partiality. Like God Almighty himself, I show no partiality. That cannot be said for the vast majority of liberals.

Any other whining complaints?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

There's no real point in defending Boxcar since...

...no one can do that better than me, anyway. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

wow, so now the thinking is that Mubarak is a brutal tyrant? where have you people been the last thirty years? I've never heard that one before.

Well Jim, I guess you either haven’t been watching or listening carefully, don’t research indices of freedoms ( Egypt ranks 96th.), or don’t have any former Egyptians as friends. I have some and they all call for Mubarak to step down. He is a despot only secured by the amount of U.S. baksheesh pumped into his personal pockets. His family has already departed for Switzerland and their bank accounts that have robbed the Egyptian people blind over the many years of his dictatorship. Biden was badly prepared for that question on whether the term dictator was appropriate and took the high road. Tonight, Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei replied to CNN: “ Really ? I know Joe well. Let him come here and try and find any citizen that doesn’t think he’s a dictator ."

Nothing in there about democracy or elections that I can see.

]You can say that about 2/3rds of the earth’s membership. There are so many strongmen, tyrants and dictators of all stripes who will not willingly give up their power freely to any token use of universal suffrage.

Its not a simple black and white moment, yes we want to promote democracy and support people who want to be free, but...

No, it’s not Jim. But, it is precisely because Egypt is a historic Muslim nation, with a strong intellectual and knowledgeable middle class, that the time has come to push for reform and freedoms. These may never approach all of those found in Western democracies, but some may be formulated. It’s the gamble worth taking to show, that the U.S is, as many Egyptians have commented, on the correct side of history.

]Robert has the right take here: “Jimmy Carter's decision to allow the Shah into this country turned the people of Iran against us into the hands of the Zealots which run it now. It may have gone that way anyhow, but Carter forced it.” Precisely- learn from your mistakes, don’t duplicate historical failures.


BTW, I’ve always thought Condi Rice was the brains of the Bush government. That speech though, was never gonna fly after Bush’s abject policy failures, especially with the Muslim world. I think she’d be an excellent addition to the Obama Cabinet.
you seem to not have a good grasp of reality. nobody is saying that Mubarak is a saint, its just what was the better option all these years, or now?
what ever you want to think about him he has been a stabilizer. okay his time has passed and people want change.

you say it's about reform and freedoms, personally I feel many of those people in the streets are there due to economic conditions, if people had jobs and food would they be calling for his ouster? I doubt it.

we're going to see change now, that is certain. all I'm saying is that if this ends up going from Mubarak clan to an Islamic state like Iran, would you still consider that to be a successful change? would that present the opportunity for reform and freedom?

[newtothegame]

you seem to not have a good grasp of reality. nobody is saying that Mubarak is a saint, its just what was the better option all these years, or now?
what ever you want to think about him he has been a stabilizer. okay his time has passed and people want change.

you say it's about reform and freedoms, personally I feel many of those people in the streets are there due to economic conditions, if people had jobs and food would they be calling for his ouster? I doubt it.

we're going to see change now, that is certain. all I'm saying is that if this ends up going from Mubarak clan to an Islamic state like Iran, would you still consider that to be a successful change? would that present the opportunity for reform and freedom?

Jim, I normally agree with most of the cons on this board. but in this subject, if I may, try this on...
First off, putting our nose (meaning the U.S) has gotten us into more trouble then I care to recall. And not just this instance. We as a nation can sit and say whatever we want about what we would like to happen etc etc. It's NOT for us to decide. Last I checked, I do not live in Cairro.
We tried to do the same thing in Iran and look how that turned out for us.
We stuck our noses in Nam.....
Korea.....
The debacle in S America.....
Iraq....
Afghanistan....
Were any of these "democratic" endeavors successful????
If you ask me, they ALL turned into money pits in which we still support most of for "national security".
Egypt gets 1.5 billion from us yearly for "stabilizing". That's just EGYPT!
I am really thinking our losing endeavors may not be worth it. In the end, all those countries wind up calling for our heads on a platter.
Mubarak....he is a dictator! Like it or not, that's what he is.
We can NOT as a country continue to talk about human rights then support guys like this. How does that look to the citizens of those countries? Then we have the nerve to turn around and wonder how people like Bin Laden gain the support of all these young people all over the world....hint hint...look at how we treat them. Our actions speak alot louder then words!
Time to call all world leaders and tell them the bank has run dry!
Put out a major press release tell the world of our intentions and that we will leave your shores.
I wonder how that would help our deficit issue?????? :bang:
Call the U.N...send them an inviction notice!
Lets start taking care of us!! We wouldnt be crying now about deficit cutting.

[ArlJim78]

Jim, I normally agree with most of the cons on this board. but in this subject, if I may, try this on...
First off, putting our nose (meaning the U.S) has gotten us into more trouble then I care to recall. And not just this instance. We as a nation can sit and say whatever we want about what we would like to happen etc etc. It's NOT for us to decide. Last I checked, I do not live in Cairro.
We tried to do the same thing in Iran and look how that turned out for us.
We stuck our noses in Nam.....
Korea.....
The debacle in S America.....
Iraq....
Afghanistan....
Were any of these "democratic" endeavors successful????
If you ask me, they ALL turned into money pits in which we still support most of for "national security".
Egypt gets 1.5 billion from us yearly for "stabilizing". That's just EGYPT!
I am really thinking our losing endeavors may not be worth it. In the end, all those countries wind up calling for our heads on a platter.
Mubarak....he is a dictator! Like it or not, that's what he is.
We can NOT as a country continue to talk about human rights then support guys like this. How does that look to the citizens of those countries? Then we have the nerve to turn around and wonder how people like Bin Laden gain the support of all these young people all over the world....hint hint...look at how we treat them. Our actions speak alot louder then words!
Time to call all world leaders and tell them the bank has run dry!
Put out a major press release tell the world of our intentions and that we will leave your shores.
I wonder how that would help our deficit issue?????? :bang:
Call the U.N...send them an inviction notice!
Lets start taking care of us!! We wouldnt be crying now about deficit cutting.
where did I say anything about sticking our nose into things? you act like I'm advocating that the US conduct regime change forceably in Egypt and install a new puppet. I'm saying nothing of the sort. I'm simply pointing out that we should be concerned that this uprising not turn Egypt into another Iran.

I also don't disagree about the foreign aid. Its shortsighted and in the end corrupting.

[newtothegame]

where did I say anything about sticking our nose into things? you act like I'm advocating that the US conduct regime change forceably in Egypt and install a new puppet. I'm saying nothing of the sort. I'm simply pointing out that we should be concerned that this uprising not turn Egypt into another Iran.

I also don't disagree about the foreign aid. Its shortsighted and in the end corrupting.
No, No, I apologize if it was taken that way Jim.......
You didnt say anything about sticking our nose into it.
I am saying we have done that too many times and it has almost always led to us getting kicked again. Our policies ( at least in verbage) say one thing, then we do the opposite. It's no wonder so many people hate the U.S around the world. I truly feel like we created the Bin Ladens of the world.
It's kind of hard to say we are for the people of Egypt when they are picking up canisters of tear gas made in the U.S being used against them. :bang:
Same thing in Iraq, afghanistan etc etc.
We, as a country continue to say we support the people, but reality is we support the dictators like Mubabrak behind closed doors because of "national security". It's all B.S!
If we truly wanted to spread democracy (even though I doubt we as a country know what democracy is anymore), we have to have our ACTIONS do our talking versus our words. Too many times our actions are inconsistent with our words. This is what gets us in trouble!

[ArlJim78]

No, No, I apologize if it was taken that way Jim.......
You didnt say anything about sticking our nose into it.
I am saying we have done that too many times and it has almost always led to us getting kicked again. Our policies ( at least in verbage) say one thing, then we do the opposite. It's no wonder so many people hate the U.S around the world. I truly feel like we created the Bin Ladens of the world.
It's kind of hard to say we are for the people of Egypt when they are picking up canisters of tear gas made in the U.S being used against them. :bang:
Same thing in Iraq, afghanistan etc etc.
We, as a country continue to say we support the people, but reality is we support the dictators like Mubabrak behind closed doors because of "national security". It's all B.S!
If we truly wanted to spread democracy (even though I doubt we as a country know what democracy is anymore), we have to have our ACTIONS do our talking versus our words. Too many times our actions are inconsistent with our words. This is what gets us in trouble!
we've called Mubarak a key ally for 30 years. now after a week of protests he's kicked to the curb and labeled a dictator who must step aside. what do you suppose our other allies are thinking right about now?

[PaceAdvantage]

what do you suppose our other allies are thinking right about now?http://renovomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/miss-me-yet.jpg

[boxcar]

No, No, I apologize if it was taken that way Jim.......
You didnt say anything about sticking our nose into it.
I am saying we have done that too many times and it has almost always led to us getting kicked again. Our policies ( at least in verbage) say one thing, then we do the opposite. It's no wonder so many people hate the U.S around the world. I truly feel like we created the Bin Ladens of the world.
It's kind of hard to say we are for the people of Egypt when they are picking up canisters of tear gas made in the U.S being used against them. :bang:
Same thing in Iraq, afghanistan etc etc.
We, as a country continue to say we support the people, but reality is we support the dictators like Mubabrak behind closed doors because of "national security". It's all B.S!
If we truly wanted to spread democracy (even though I doubt we as a country know what democracy is anymore), we have to have our ACTIONS do our talking versus our words. Too many times our actions are inconsistent with our words. This is what gets us in trouble!

And just what kind of "ACTIONS", specifically, would you have in mind?

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

we've called Mubarak a key ally for 30 years. now after a week of protests he's kicked to the curb and labeled a dictator who must step aside. what do you suppose our other allies are thinking right about now?
But see, thats the problem I spoke of a little earlier.....
we as a country talk from both sides of our mouths. We are always trying to appease someone. And, what I am saying is WHY? We are really gaining very little if nothing in most cases in the long run. What usually ends up happening is we pay dictators like Mubarak. We ultimately lose that game, cause now we lose EGYPT (possibly) and the citizens as well who see this country for what it is.
So, do we appease these regimes by allowing or supporting oppression, or side with the citizens and have their leaders despise us? Its a no win situation....that's my point. Maybe we should stop trying to impose our will on other countries and start worrying about our own...(which happens to have many of its own problems).

[newtothegame]

And just what kind of "ACTIONS", specifically, would you have in mind?

Boxcar
Box...how this for an 'action"?
INACTION! We have tried numerous times around the world to "lead".
Is Iraq really better today?
Is Afghanistan better?
How about the south american rebels we suppoorted?
Did we NOT create bin laden?
Iran better?
Or even better yet, how about if we must interfer (which seems our government has to be involved)...how about we stick to whatever we say? Our double talk has gotten us into a load of crap around the world.
Hell, our own leaders tell us one thing and do another...If we can't trust our own government, how can we expect others to trust it???

[ElKabong]

great speech. condi is a very classy person and also a qualified person to run this country from a foreign policy standpoint, she might be pretty good domestically as well with her enormous background in life. one thing for sure she was a very bright light in the bush administration.

She's one of 2 people that I wish would run in 2012 (Allen West the other). I really admire Rice. Calm demeanor, thoughtful, intelligent, good person....Plus, she hasn't run for office in forever thus she's owes no one.

[JustRalph]

One question........

Why are most of these signs in English?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-best-egypt-protest-signs-from-around-the-world?awesm=awe.sm_5G0rg&utm_content=awesm-tweet-button-horizontal&utm_medium=awe.sm-twitter&utm_source=twitter.com

[newtothegame]

Amazing what a 1.5 billion dollar education can provide huh??

And, the same reason these are in english.....


http://www.dlcache.indiatimes.com/imageserve/0g342BY9VqbQf/350x.jpg http://www.dlfavicon.indiatimes.com/imageserve/0a9L9fsaU55wK/favicon.png Getty Images (http://gettyimages.com/) 1 day ago An Egyptian protester holds an anti-US sign during a demonstration at Tahrir Square in Cairo (http://oneclick.indiatimes.com/topic/Cairo) on January 30, 2011 on the sixth day of angry revolt against President Hosni Mubarak (http://oneclick.indiatimes.com/topic/Hosni_Mubarak)'s regime amid increasing lawlessness, a rising death toll and a spate of jail breaks.
http://oneclick.indiatimes.com/photo/0g342BY9VqbQf#

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20110201/i/ra3297210738.jpg?x=400&y=271&q=85&sig=Om_WVwaESNuZLUS1zBYBaA--
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Anti-government-protests-Egypt-Egyptian-protesters-hold-placards-during-protest-Cairo-Egypt-Friday-Jan/ss/events/wl/012511egyptprotest


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20110201/capt.e7a75f162b5c4bb89a5aff33b4749f16-e7a75f162b5c4bb89a5aff33b4749f16-0.jpg?x=400&y=317&q=85&sig=7k.pXmWG.LTrfoQ.mRlNEA--
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Anti-government-protests-Egypt-Egyptian-protesters-hold-placards-during-protest-Cairo-Egypt-Friday-Jan/ss/events/wl/012511egyptprotest#photoViewer=/110201/481/urn_publicid_ap_org_e7a75f162b5c4bb89a5aff33b4749f 16

[boxcar]

One question........

Why are most of these signs in English?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-best-egypt-protest-signs-from-around-the-world?awesm=awe.sm_5G0rg&utm_content=awesm-tweet-button-horizontal&utm_medium=awe.sm-twitter&utm_source=twitter.com

Goes to show how grossly overpriced our education system is over here when on a $2. a day salary over there, they still have enough money left over to take courses in English. Plus they got the spelling right, which is saying more than when some overpaid SEIU folks were sporting a misspelled banner at the Dem's "big rally" last year in D.C.. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Box...how this for an 'action"?
INACTION! We have tried numerous times around the world to "lead".
Is Iraq really better today?
Is Afghanistan better?
How about the south american rebels we suppoorted?
Did we NOT create bin laden?
Iran better?
Or even better yet, how about if we must interfer (which seems our government has to be involved)...how about we stick to whatever we say? Our double talk has gotten us into a load of crap around the world.
Hell, our own leaders tell us one thing and do another...If we can't trust our own government, how can we expect others to trust it???

I love it. You do appear to have a libertarian bent. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

YI love it. You do appear to have a libertarian bent. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar
if me questioning our ability, as a nation, to impose our will on other people makes me libertarian bent, then so be it. What would you call a person who believes we can do the above?

[newtothegame]

P.s not that I took it as a bad thing either...:ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Y
if me questioning our ability, as a nation, to impose our will on other people makes me libertarian bent, then so be it. What would you call a person who believes we can do the above?

Sticking our nose into the internal affairs of a sovereign nation is extremely tricky business. For example, it's one thing to come to the aid of a strong ally if they're security is threatened from without. Coming to the aid of good ally would be analogous to helping defend a neighbor, who is under attack by thugs, for example. But intruding into the internal affairs of a country would be more akin to butting into a family squabble.

Also, nations have relationships with other nations' federal heads and their diplomats or other appointed government officials -- not with "the people" of those nations directly. Therefore, I think it's incumbent for one nation's officials to talk or negotiate privately with another nation's officials and exhaust all avenues of ideas or solutions with each other before one nation voices it's support for "the people" of another nations. Obama truly betrayed Mubarak's trust and rushed to judgment again by so quickly siding with Egypt's people before coming up to speed on exactly what was going on over there and trying to work things out behind the scenes.

His handling of this crisis could have huge repercussions throughout the region and, indeed, throughout the world. At least with Mubarak we knew who that "devil" was; but now the whole world is faced with an unknown and new "devil". And I strongly suspect that sooner or later, Egypt's government will become Islamatized and that would not be good for Israel or the region. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood is already shouting "death to Israel". Chances are good that diplomatic relations with Israel will soon come to an end.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

you can't stick your nose into a countries internal affairs any more than Obama just did in Egypt. Basically we sent an envoy over there to inform Mubarak that it was time for him to step aside. also Obama has greenlighted the muslim brotherhood, indicating that we're okay with them in a power role. of course one of their advisors has said to prepare for war with Israel. funny I didn't hear any of the protestors calling for war, I didn't get the impression that they were actually pro war protestors. of course knowing how Obama loathes Israel we shouldn't draw any conclusions.:rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

you can't stick your nose into a countries internal affairs any more than Obama just did in Egypt. Basically we sent an envoy over there to inform Mubarak that it was time for him to step aside. also Obama has greenlighted the muslim brotherhood, indicating that we're okay with them in a power role. of course one of their advisors has said to prepare for war with Israel. funny I didn't hear any of the protestors calling for war, I didn't get the impression that they were actually pro war protestors. of course knowing how Obama loathes Israel we shouldn't draw any conclusions.:rolleyes:

All the more reason why 2012 is so important for us. This guy has got to go !

[boxcar]

All the more reason why 2012 is so important for us. This guy has got to go !

The Republicans, if smart, which history has proven they're not, could help the country considerably toward that end if they played their political cards right these next 2 years. But I wouldn't count on that happening. For example, all the establishment Repugs are behind Obama's handling of this crisis.
Can you imagine how the Dems would play politics with this if this had happened on Bush's watch?

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

don't bet the farm on Republicans doing the smart thing.

[boxcar]

don't bet the farm on Republicans doing the smart thing.

I would bet a dime, let alone a farm, on them doing the smart thing. This is why I think BO stands about a 60-40 chance of getting reelected.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

I would bet a dime, let alone a farm, on them doing the smart thing. This is why I think BO stands about a 60-40 chance of getting reelected.

Boxcar

A typo?? Did you mean:
"wouldn't" bet a dime, let alone a farm...

[boxcar]

A typo?? Did you mean:
"wouldn't" bet a dime, let alone a farm...

Yes, it was. Thank you. I might risk a wooden nickel, though. :D

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

Well as i alluded to in a previous post in this thread...there is not alot of faith in congress as a whole. So I don't count on them doing ANYTHING besides what's in their own best interest.
The one thing that I see repugs have over alot of dems is that I believe 23 seats are up for dems this next cycle. With looming healthcare, I bet most of them will not hang their carreers on the line with it. repugs will push it to no end (using whatever political clout they may have gained this past election cycle.
Bottom line though, is not many (if any ) can be trusted to do the right thing at this point in my opinion.
But, to keep it on topic....Mubarak says he will stay till the sept elections. I am not sure that is gonna appease many.
I expect the protest to continue possibly leading to more violence. If the violence breaks out, look for a group like the muslim brotherhood to try to fill the voids.
Where does that leave Isreal? Not many options for sure......
This can go bad and very quickly.....
I truly hope the people of egypt have learned something over the last thirty years of peace agreements with the isreali's.
This has the potential to become WWIII. Do I think that will happen? No...
But as events happen, I think the world is moving closer towards it.
Right now, there are alot of itchy fingers I would imagine throughout the middle east.

[boxcar]

Well as i alluded to in a previous post in this thread...there is not alot of faith in congress as a whole. So I don't count on them doing ANYTHING besides what's in their own best interest.
The one thing that I see repugs have over alot of dems is that I believe 23 seats are up for dems this next cycle. With looming healthcare, I bet most of them will not hang their carreers on the line with it. repugs will push it to no end (using whatever political clout they may have gained this past election cycle.
Bottom line though, is not many (if any ) can be trusted to do the right thing at this point in my opinion.
But, to keep it on topic....Mubarak says he will stay till the sept elections. I am not sure that is gonna appease many.
I expect the protest to continue possibly leading to more violence. If the violence breaks out, look for a group like the muslim brotherhood to try to fill the voids.
Where does that leave Isreal? Not many options for sure......
This can go bad and very quickly.....
I truly hope the people of egypt have learned something over the last thirty years of peace agreements with the isreali's.
This has the potential to become WWIII. Do I think that will happen? No...
But as events happen, I think the world is moving closer towards it.
Right now, there are alot of itchy fingers I would imagine throughout the middle east.

The Israelis aren't the only ones sweating right now. There are others in a far hotter seat at the moment because they're a lot closer to the action. One must wonder the fate of about 8,000,000 Coptic Christians in Egypt. As you know, Muslims aren't too tolerant of Christians. The Mubarak government provided cover for these people because it was a secular-run government that ruled with rod of iron, relatively speaking. But all bets are off if Egypt turns into a Muslim state.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

funny how Obama was indifferent to the uprising in Iran, didn't want to get involved. But when its an ally of the west like Egypt, well he just can't help himself. he's working hand in hand with the Muslim brotherhood to show Mubarak the door. also its hysterical to hear him speak so fondly of the protestors in Cairo while instructing Mubarak that he must listen to his people. but tea party protests in AMerica which numbered over a million people? Obama mocked them every step of the way, and refuses to listen. what a complete hypocrite. which ally will be the next one he urges towards revolution?

[ElKabong]

. also its hysterical to hear him speak so fondly of the protestors in Cairo while instructing Mubarak that he must listen to his people. but tea party protests in AMerica which numbered over a million people? Obama mocked them every step of the way, and refuses to listen.

This will be one of the 3 things the repubs will bend Baraq over a barrel and work him over in the summer/ fall of 2012. His lack of ability to act on unemployment the day he took office, his ramming obiecare thru, and his putting down tea party rallies/ members when applauding protestors abroad are the things he'll have to answer to.

[JustRalph]

sitting on our hands while the Devil we know is being forced out feels mighty dangerous to me.

I keep reading this is about "democracy" I think it's about turning Egypt into a radical Islamic State. Well beyond what it is now.

That does not bode well for Israel.

[chickenhead]

all these revolutions always are decided by one thing -- at some point the Army decides what it is going to do -- either put it down with extreme force, or stand aside. The National Army is always the group with veto rights, everyone else (government, protestors, other countries) just has an opinion.

[boxcar]

This will be one of the 3 things the repubs will bend Baraq over a barrel and work him over in the summer/ fall of 2012. His lack of ability to act on unemployment the day he took office, his ramming obiecare thru, and his putting down tea party rallies/ members when applauding protestors abroad are the things he'll have to answer to.

You sure have a lot of faith in the Repugs. Good luck with that.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

sitting on our hands while the Devil we know is being forced out feels mighty dangerous to me.

I keep reading this is about "democracy" I think it's about turning Egypt into a radical Islamic State. Well beyond what it is now.

That does not bode well for Israel.Just what do you want to do, send troops in. There isn't anything we can do at this stage if there ever was. So far this doesn't appear to be anti-American. No burning American flags in the street yet anyway. There no winning to backing the "current devil", All that would do turn the mob on us. In the long run and probably in the short run the mob is going to win this fight. No need to push them into the hands of the extreme Moslems.

[AgainstAllOdds]

It's a dangerous job being a correspondent for sure. It just came on the news that Anderson Cooper has been hurt in Egypt. That is some really scary stuff happening there. I think we put a lot of American lives at risk for a good story to be honest.

That's all. I just thought someone might be interested...I admire Anderson Cooper and all those people that put their lives on the line to bring us the news from places they don't belong.

[fast4522]

I was watching on the evening news some lady in Egypt screaming "30 years of poverty Obama do something"

Sorry folks, President Bush had foreign policy correct, the bum kissing that the world saw this President do has led to this. A rank amateur and a so called expert VP in foreign policy can only lead to further demise of our security. Expect further blunders in the next 23 months.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... the bum kissing that the world saw this President do has led to this...

"this", as in, the rioting in Egypt?

[boxcar]

Just what do you want to do, send troops in. There isn't anything we can do at this stage if there ever was. So far this doesn't appear to be anti-American. No burning American flags in the street yet anyway. There no winning to backing the "current devil", All that would do turn the mob on us. In the long run and probably in the short run the mob is going to win this fight. No need to push them into the hands of the extreme Moslems.

Geesh, Robert, I don't know where you get your news from but you really need to explore other sources. You haven't seen all the anti-American signs and posters written in English? But having said this, those people were probably paid by the Muslim Brotherhood to carry those. There are radicals in Egypt who want to make Egypt's predicament the fault of the "great Satan" and the "little Satan".

What also isn't being reported is that from what I've been hearing from Egyptians calling into various shows, the anti-Mubarak crowd represents a very tiny percentage of the population. Egypt has about 80 million people. I think at one point it was reported that one demonstration consisted of about 250,000 anti-government protesters. If this was the case, that would still represent only .3% of the population.

Also, what isn't being reported is that Mubarak does have a lot of support and that many of the more wealthy people and middle class over there are protecting their properties, stores, goods, etc. -- pretty much the way it was during the Watts riots in LA.

In short, the LameStream media is misleading Americans into thinking that what is going on over there is popular revolution -- a popular uprising, which is highly questionable. Also, what is not being reported is that the military is still supporting Mubarak.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

The news about the signs came from Fox News Channel. They have repeatedly stated over and over again that there is no anti American signs from the protesters. Exactly where did you hear that there was?

[boxcar]

The news about the signs came from Fox News Channel. They have repeatedly stated over and over again that there is no anti American signs from the protesters. Exactly where did you hear that there was?

Google them. They're on the 'net. I saw protester's signs as recent as yesterday on Yahoo news.

Boxcar

[Let's Roll]

I was watching on the evening news some lady in Egypt screaming "30 years of poverty Obama do something"

Sorry folks, President Bush had foreign policy correct, the bum kissing that the world saw this President do has led to this. A rank amateur and a so called expert VP in foreign policy can only lead to further demise of our security. Expect further blunders in the next 23 months.
The damage caused by these "blunders" will last generations.

[ArlJim78]

I think the anti western signs tend to show up wherever the camera's are.


Not that it's anti western, but I saw a sign in english the other day that made me laugh. it simply said:

Mubarak
you are stupid
go to hell

[Robert Goren]

With photoshop any blogger can come with any signs they want and post them on the net. If I hear on Fox that they are they are there then I will believe it. As far as I know they have not report any yet, although it would not surprise me if some Mubarak supporters put some out to get rise out of people like you.

[Tom]

Yes, Mubarak has been biding his time waiting for the opportunity to stick it to ArlJim!

Take that, you scoundrel!


:lol:

[mostpost]

What also isn't being reported is that from what I've been hearing from Egyptians calling into various shows, the anti-Mubarak crowd represents a very tiny percentage of the population. Egypt has about 80 million people. I think at one point it was reported that one demonstration consisted of about 250,000 anti-government protesters. If this was the case, that would still represent only .3% of the population.

250,000 our of 80 million is a small percentage of the Egyptian population. What it represents is a very large percentage. One of my lame :rolleyes: analogies. When a company sends out a mailing seeking a response, such as fill out a form and receive a catalog or more information about our product, they consider it a great success if they receive a 10% response. And that is just the response to order the catalog. The number that actually buy is much smaller.

Ordering a catalog is a much less dangerous situation than demonstrating against a dictator. For every demonstrator in Tahrir (Sp.) square there may be a hundred or more with the same opinion. Everyone isn't cut out to face danger like that.

Another fallacy in your argument is to compare the size of the crowd to the entire population of Egypt. The protests you refer to are taking place in Cairo.
The population of Cairo is 6.75M. Now the percentage of protesters is almost 4%. The number of people they represent may be 40 or 50% or more.

[boxcar]

250,000 our of 80 million is a small percentage of the Egyptian population. What it represents is a very large percentage. One of my lame :rolleyes: analogies. When a company sends out a mailing seeking a response, such as fill out a form and receive a catalog or more information about our product, they consider it a great success if they receive a 10% response. And that is just the response to order the catalog. The number that actually buy is much smaller.

I'm glad you said "lame", but you would have done even better to have omitted the emoticon because your analogies really do suck raw eggs.

You analogy, as usual, falls flat because the mailing is sent out to all the company's targeted markets. Ostensibly, then, their entire market is being reached. Therefore, a 10% response from this "whole" is usually considered quite good.

However, by you using only Cairo's population, this does not represent ALL the nation's people, yet all the people in a nation are affected by it's politics, just as the entire company is affected by the response from all its market. Anyway you slice it, 6+ million in Cairo doesn't equate to 80 million in the entire nation, most especially since 6+ million aren't demonstrating or protesting to begin with. :bang: :bang:

This makes the fallacy of which you accuse me non-existent, but it does apply to you. Cairo is the capital -- the seat of government -- the major city in Egypt. So, it's logical the demonstrations would be there. But to say that a part is greater than the whole is absurd. Your analogy is akin to saying that a major liberal metropolitan stand on some political issue in this country necessarily represents what the national opinion is.

Have a good day. Too bad, though, you can't take some course in Analogy Making. But I haven't come across any Analogy 101 courses yet. But I do have a serious suggestion: Study the bible, especially the Gospels and learn HOW Christ thinks. Learn his thought processes and adopt them for your own. Then you will always be on the mark.

Boxcar

[Native Texan III]

250,000 out of 80M is not much different from the Washington Tea Party rally which if you say was around 1M it is 1M in 300M USA citizens. A tiny % of USA population?

Didn't Isaiah live about 700 years before Christ was even born, let alone before being immaculately conceived, let alone being capable of thought?

[Tom]

What percent of the colonists actual took up arms against England?

[mostpost]

What percent of the colonists actual took up arms against England?
From wikipedia:

Forces fighting on the side of the rebels:
35,000 Continentals
44,500 Militia
55,000+ Sailors[citation needed]
10,000 French (in America)
~60,000 French and Spanish (in Europe)[1]

Forces fighting on the side of the British:
56,000 British[citation needed]
171,000 Sailors[2]
30,000 Germans[citation needed]
50,000 Loyalists[3]
13,000 Natives[4]

Estimated population of the colonies in 1775 was 2.4M

[bigmack]

What percent of the colonists actual took up arms against England?
Ask him another question. He'll put it in his machine and kick out an answer in no time.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_let5asucR91qe0eclo1_r5_500.gif

[Tom]

Is that a postage meter? :D

OK, mostie, how do magnets work?

[mostpost]

I'm glad you said "lame", but you would have done even better to have omitted the emoticon because your analogies really do suck raw eggs.

You analogy, as usual, falls flat because the mailing is sent out to all the company's targeted markets. Ostensibly, then, their entire market is being reached. Therefore, a 10% response from this "whole" is usually considered quite good.

However, by you using only Cairo's population, this does not represent ALL the nation's people, yet all the people in a nation are affected by it's politics, just as the entire company is affected by the response from all its market. Anyway you slice it, 6+ million in Cairo doesn't equate to 80 million in the entire nation, most especially since 6+ million aren't demonstrating or protesting to begin with. :bang: :bang:

This makes the fallacy of which you accuse me non-existent, but it does apply to you. Cairo is the capital -- the seat of government -- the major city in Egypt. So, it's logical the demonstrations would be there. But to say that a part is greater than the whole is absurd. Your analogy is akin to saying that a major liberal metropolitan stand on some political issue in this country necessarily represents what the national opinion is.

Have a good day. Too bad, though, you can't take some course in Analogy Making. But I haven't come across any Analogy 101 courses yet. But I do have a serious suggestion: Study the bible, especially the Gospels and learn HOW Christ thinks. Learn his thought processes and adopt them for your own. Then you will always be on the mark.

Boxcar
The purpose of that sentence and the emoticon was to mock your opinion of my analogies. Leaving out the emoticon would have defeated that purpose.

As to the substance of your remarks, pretending your remarks ever have substance, the demonstrators in Cairo represent the people of Cairo. There were demonstrations in other cities, Alexandria for one.

In response to Tom's question, I showed that 3% of American colonists took arms against Great Britain. (referring to land based troops) BTW 2% fought with the British. Do you propose we nullify the results of that war since so few supported it?

Finally, when I read the bible it is in the hope that I will learn to be a better person, not so I can convince myself that I, and I alone, sit at the right hand of God.

[mostpost]

Is that a postage meter? :D

OK, mostie, how do magnets work?
Elves. Tiny, invisible elves.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Elves. Tiny, invisible elves.

I was really hoping you'd go the "hold the curved end and use the open end to pick up metal" direction. :)

[boxcar]

250,000 out of 80M is not much different from the Washington Tea Party rally which if you say was around 1M it is 1M in 300M USA citizens. A tiny % of USA population?

Oh...the number of marchers was "tiny" but not so much during this last election, was it? Results on state and national levels were of historic proportions. :bang: :bang:

Didn't Isaiah live about 700 years before Christ was even born, let alone before being immaculately conceived, let alone being capable of thought?

Shame on you. All of Isaiah's messianic prophecies pertaining to the First Advent came to pass. Given your mental blunder above, may I suggest that if the number of years that separate you from the prophet were to be granted to you, all that time still wouldn't be sufficient for you to beg, borrow or steal a rational moment?

Boxcar

[highnote]

from STARTFOR.com

Intelligence Guidance: The Situation in Egypt


January 27, 2011

The Egypt Unrest: Full Coverage
Editor’s Note: The following is an internal STRATFOR document produced to provide high-level guidance to our analysts. This document is not a forecast, but rather a series of guidelines for understanding and evaluating events, as well as suggestions on areas for focus.

Let’s use the Iranian rising of 1979 as a model. It had many elements involved, from Communists, to liberals to moderate Muslims, and of course the radicals. All of them were united in hating the Shah, but not in anything else.

The Western press did not understand the mixture and had its closest ties with the liberals, for the simple reason that they were the most Western and spoke English. For a very long time they thought these liberals were in control of the revolution.

For its part, the intelligence community did not have good sources among the revolutionaries but relied on SAVAK, the Shah’s security service, for intelligence. SAVAK neither understood what was happening, nor was it prepared to tell the CIA. The CIA suspected the major agent was the small Communist Party, because that was the great fear at that time — namely, that the Soviets were engineering a plot to seize Iran and control the Persian Gulf.

Meanwhile, Western human rights groups painted the Shah as a monster and saw this as a popular democratic rising. Western human rights and democracy groups, funded by the U.S. government and others, were standing by to teach people like Bani Sadr to create a representative democracy.

Bani Sadr was the first post-Shah president. He was a moderate Islamist and democrat; he also had no power whatsoever. The people who were controlling the revolution were those around Ayatollah Khomeini, who were used by the liberals as a screen to keep the United States quiet until the final moment came and they seized control.

It is important to understand that the demonstrations were seen as spontaneous, but were actually being carefully orchestrated. It is also important to understand that the real power behind the movement remained opaque to the media and the CIA, because they didn’t speak English and the crowds they organized didn’t speak English, and none of the reporters spoke Farsi (nor did a lot of the intelligence agency people). So when the demonstrations surged, the interviews were with the liberals who were already their sources, and who made themselves appear far more powerful than they were — and who were encouraged to do so by Khomeini’s people.

It was only at the end that Khomeini ran up the Jolly Roger to the West.

Nothing is identical to the past, but Iran taught me never to trust a revolutionary who spoke English; they will tend to be pro-Western. When the masses poured into the streets — and that hasn’t happened in Egypt yet — they were Khomeini supporters who spoke not a word of English. The media kept interviewing their English-speaking sources and the CIA kept up daily liaison meetings with SAVAK — until the day they all grabbed a plane and met up with their money in Europe and the United States. The liberals, those who weren’t executed, also wound up in the United States, teaching at Harvard or driving cabs.

Let’s be very careful on the taxonomy of this rising. The Western human rights groups will do what they can to emphasize its importance, and to build up their contacts with what they will claim are the real leaders of the revolution. The only language these groups share with the identified leaders is English, and the funding for these groups depends on producing these people. And these people really want to turn Egypt into Wisconsin. The one thing I can guarantee is that is not what is going on.

What we have to find out is who is behind this. It could be the military wanting to stage a coup to keep Gamal Mubarak out of power. They would be doing this to preserve the regime, not to overthrow it. They could be using the demonstrations to push their demands and perhaps pressure Hosni Mubarak to leave voluntarily.

The danger is that they would be playing with fire. The demonstrations open the door for the Muslim Brotherhood, which is stronger than others may believe. They might keep the demonstrations going after Hosni leaves, and radicalize the streets to force regime change. It could also be the Muslim Brotherhood organizing quietly. Whoever it is, they are lying low, trying to make themselves look weaker than they are — while letting the liberals undermine the regime, generate anti-Mubarak feeling in the West, and pave the way for whatever it is they are planning.

Our job now is to sort through all the claimants and wannabees of this revolution, and find out who the main powers are. These aren’t spontaneous risings and the ideology of the people in the streets has nothing to do with who will wind up in power. The one thing to be confident of is that liberal reformers are the stalking horse for something else, and that they are being used as always to take the heat and pave the way.

Now, figure out who is really behind the demonstrations and we have a game.

[newtothegame]

With photoshop any blogger can come with any signs they want and post them on the net. If I hear on Fox that they are they are there then I will believe it. As far as I know they have not report any yet, although it would not surprise me if some Mubarak supporters put some out to get rise out of people like you.

No one can really be as ridiculous as you come across at times...really...!!!
Go back in this thread. I even posted a few of the signs I could find rather easily with google.
You now claim photoshop.....how do you know that any sign pro american isnt photo shopped? Get real Robert and wake up!

[boxcar]

No one can really be as ridiculous as you come across at times...really...!!!
Go back in this thread. I even posted a few of the signs I could find rather easily with google.
You now claim photoshop.....how do you know that any sign pro american isnt photo shopped? Get real Robert and wake up!

He's blinded by his own bias. He cannot see.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

Our job now is to sort through all the claimants and wannabees of this revolution, and find out who the main powers are. These aren’t spontaneous risings and the ideology of the people in the streets has nothing to do with who will wind up in power. The one thing to be confident of is that liberal reformers are the stalking horse for something else, and that they are being used as always to take the heat and pave the way.

Now, figure out who is really behind the demonstrations and we have a game.
this report is on the right track, this certanly isn't a spontaneous uprising. I have my suspicions, unconfirmed but I trust my instincts.

Michael Savage published this write-up today (http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/files/filesSavage/Savage-ObamaGivingMiddleEastToIslamistRadicals-Rev03.pdf). While he is a bit of a scattershot I think he is near the mark for the most part. I think I made the statement several days ago that I felt this was some kind of collusion between socialists and Islamists, probably both groups think they're using the other. Thier common ground is that they both despise capitalism and America and Israel, there current action is right in their wheelhouse.

[boxcar]

this report is on the right track, this certanly isn't a spontaneous uprising. I have my suspicions, unconfirmed but I trust my instincts.

Michael Savage published this write-up today (http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/files/filesSavage/Savage-ObamaGivingMiddleEastToIslamistRadicals-Rev03.pdf). While he is a bit of a scattershot I think he is near the mark for the most part. I think I made the statement several days ago that I felt this was some kind of collusion between socialists and Islamists, probably both groups think they're using the other. Thier common ground is that they both despise capitalism and America and Israel, there current action is right in their wheelhouse.

BINGO! A similar kind of historical alliance can seen between the Nazis in WWII and the Muslims. Funny how history kind of repeats itself. Like you, I think Savage is at least a lot closer to the truth than anyone I've heard or have read.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

As mentioned in the genesis of this thread the two Egyptian MD's in the country report to my galpal the looting was orchestrated by Pro-Hosni types to make the protesters look thugish.

[ArlJim78]

here's a real shocker.:rolleyes:

Muslim Brotherhood wants end to Egypt-Israeli peace deal (http://en.rian.ru/world/20110203/162433368.html)

[boxcar]

here's a real shocker.:rolleyes:

Muslim Brotherhood wants end to Egypt-Israeli peace deal (http://en.rian.ru/world/20110203/162433368.html)

Not to fear if we are to believe Hcap. He thinks these whackjobs number 3 people at most and have the collective IQ of the Three Stooges. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[nijinski]

My Son in Laws brother missed our thanksgiving gathering , as the military sent him to Egypt.
At the time there was relief as he has spent a good deal of time in Afghanistan , so we thought.
He is a Helicoptor mechanic and he is training the Egyptian Soldiers to my knowledge. I understand it was tough getting him and the other soldiers out
, they were told they had to be moved out of the country pronto.
Just found out today he is out of there and safe.
Things are not looking good for this region.
Just wanted to share.

[Tom]

Just found out today he is out of there and safe.
Things are not looking good for this region.
Just wanted to share.

:ThmbUp:Good news!

[nijinski]

:ThmbUp:Good news!
Thanks Tom.

[NJ Stinks]

It is hard to believe Egypt could become as dangerous as Afghanistan - especially as fast as it happened.

Nijinski, I'm glad to hear your son-in-law's brother is out of there too. :ThmbUp:

[nijinski]

It is hard to believe Egypt could become as dangerous as Afghanistan - especially as fast as it happened.

Nijinski, I'm glad to hear your son-in-law's brother is out of there too. :ThmbUp:
It's amazing how fast things did happen , agreed.
His family was a wreck when he served in Afghan territory , he's such a wonderful guy , has three young children and when he visits the family in NJ
he would always be there to lend a hand , and he keeps his brother
in line too. My daughter likes when he visits lol.

[newtothegame]

Sorry guys...I don't think this happened "fast" at all.....
Maybe the end result....(what you all see playing out now seems quick)
But, this has been brewing for a while now.
The age of the internet and modern technology has allowed common people to get more information then just what governments wish to spoon feed them.
It also allow for the common folk to be exposed to exploiters.
But, no, this didnt just start one to two weeks ago.....it boiled over one to two weeks ago!

[Tom]

And it is spreading.
Time to upgrade the 60's music.....
ntLsElbW9Xo

[boxcar]

Sorry guys...I don't think this happened "fast" at all.....
Maybe the end result....(what you all see playing out now seems quick)
But, this has been brewing for a while now.
The age of the internet and modern technology has allowed common people to get more information then just what governments wish to spoon feed them.
It also allow for the common folk to be exposed to exploiters.
But, no, this didnt just start one to two weeks ago.....it boiled over one to two weeks ago!

Nothing has happened by accident. While the Muslim world probably despises BO (because they have his number better than many Americans do), they knew he was the perfect USEFUL IDIOT to make this kind of strategic move. They know he sympathizes with ALL Muslims and that he basically has little use for Christians and Jews. Therefore, they figured (and quite correctly) that he would sympathize with any group that mouths a desire to be "free".
I don't believe they would have pulled this Bush. But I also think they would have gotten away with this if McCain were the president.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Ironic, the protesters were saying that government was going to have to accept the modern technology and then a band of club-wielding thugs on camels ride in and attack them.

[bigmack]

Chrissy throwing a fit as he believes we should have been preparing for this for the last 10-20 years. Mubarak is getting old, The State Dept. should have had "a plan." :lol:

He is now officially ashamed as an American. Poor dear.

wFUIh-xyz9E

[DJofSD]

Chrissy throwing a fit as he believes we should have been preparing for this for the last 10-20 years. Mubarak is getting old, The State Dept. should have had "a plan." :lol:

He is now officially ashamed as an American. Poor dear.

wFUIh-xyz9E

Interesting - not.

Some one tap him on the shoulder and explain to him he's suppose to be asking those questions of the government and then reporting the response. Whether he likes what he hears or has a different opinion about some aspect of the situation is irrelavent. He is not an elected offical, and, as much as he would like to think he knows it all, he does not.

I don't know if this guy has ever heard of the word hubris.

[witchdoctor]

This revolution stuff appears to be spreading.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12295864

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/yemen-protests-draw-thous_n_814761.html

[boxcar]

This revolution stuff appears to be spreading.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12295864

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/yemen-protests-draw-thous_n_814761.html

Stay tuned. According to Anjem Choudary on Hannity last night, Sharia Law will soon be here. Then we'll see Hcap dancing in the streets. :rolleyes:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fncs-hannity-confronts-radical-cleric-over-plans-for-islamic-uprising/

Boxcar

[fast4522]

This country does not need to get into something else, if shit hits the fan any worse the Democrats will beat the drum again for starting the draft to expand a police force for the world. Israel is in a tough spot that is getting tougher by the day, do you think our friend Israel misses Bush now?

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought the Democrats were against us jumping into other sovereign nation's affairs? Isn't that a "NeoCon" thing?

I'm so confused... :lol:

[witchdoctor]

I thought the Democrats were against us jumping into other sovereign nation's affairs? Isn't that a "NeoCon" thing?

I'm so confused... :lol:


Only when the Republicans are in charge. Those rules don't apply to Democrats.

[fast4522]

The last thing I want to hear is a call for bringing up the draft, I could be very wrong but the last call for the draft was from that party.

[NJ Stinks]

I thought the Democrats were against us jumping into other sovereign nation's affairs? Isn't that a "NeoCon" thing?

I'm so confused... :lol:

Demoocrats are against starting wars for no good reason. That's a "NeoCon" thing.

[bigmack]

Demoocrats are against starting wars for no good reason. That's a "NeoCon" thing.
We have you logged on your NeoCon stance a number of times.

Back to the issue...Ain't it ironic a guy like C.Matthews is ashamed of being an American because we have failed to have a plan and refuse to meddle in the affairs of another country? I think it's a hoot. I wonder if Matthews ever stops and laughs at his own schtick?

[lamboguy]

this egypt deal is not about democracy, its about putting food on the table. high unemployment, and no food. a dictator running the place that supress their people. this is a civil war that is spreading throughout the region, which will probably make it to other parts of the world like certain places in europe. this is how world wars start and spread.

[boxcar]

this egypt deal is not about democracy, its about putting food on the table. high unemployment, and no food. a dictator running the place that supress their people. this is a civil war that is spreading throughout the region, which will probably make it to other parts of the world like certain places in europe. this is how world wars start and spread.

But groups with radical agendas can very often exploit these "popular uprisings" and transform them into other things very quickly.

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

We have you logged on your NeoCon stance a number of times.

Back to the issue...Ain't it ironic a guy like C.Matthews is ashamed of being an American because we have failed to have a plan and refuse to meddle in the affairs of another country? I think it's a hoot. I wonder if Matthews ever stops and laughs at his own schtick?
Who says there is no plan? CM? Right, the all knowing, all seeing CM.

Having a plan and executing it are two different things.

[Robert Goren]

this egypt deal is not about democracy, its about putting food on the table. high unemployment, and no food. a dictator running the place that supress their people. this is a civil war that is spreading throughout the region, which will probably make it to other parts of the world like certain places in europe. this is how world wars start and spread.Finally some real insight into what is happening there. Under $2 a day for half the population, $4 for another 20%. It is not about Islam, it is about the ecomony over there. People will put up with a lot with their belly full. Not so much with it empty.

[boxcar]

Finally some real insight into what is happening there. Under $2 a day for half the population, $4 for another 20%. It is not about Islam, it is about the ecomony over there. People will put up with a lot with their belly full. Not so much with it empty.

Yeah, what Egypt needs is a good dose of Socialism over there that would put a chicken in everyone's pot, a camel in everyone's driveway and an oasis in everyone's front yard.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Who says there is no plan? CM? Right, the all knowing, all seeing CM.
Having a plan and executing it are two different things.
Nothing like another countries strife to bring out the wacko's here. Chrissy is ashamed of America & RosieO thinks we have an "ethnocentric blind spot." :lol:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/rosie.png

[delayjf]

Rosie doesn't know the first thing about human rights violation - she should try living in Afganistan for one year. A burka would give her a whole new perspective.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... A burka would give her a whole new perspective.

I thought only women wore those things? :confused:

[Tom]

Finally some real insight into what is happening there. Under $2 a day for half the population, $4 for another 20%. It is not about Islam, it is about the ecomony over there. People will put up with a lot with their belly full. Not so much with it empty.

Ancient Egyptian proverb: When your belly is full, you have many problems.
When your belly is empty, you have only one.

Ironic as this plays out, Obama the Clueless has just diverted more of our food crop (corn) towards inefficient gasoline production.

Anyone think we might be seeing a glimpse of our own future?


But let's not let a crisis go to waste - we need a new video track to go with a re-release of "Walk Like an Egyptian."

kHngF_b3NuE

[Robert Goren]

Ironic as this plays out, Obama the Clueless has just diverted more of our food crop (corn) towards inefficient gasoline productionIt actual takes more than a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. But if you say anything bad about it in this state, you will running from a lynch mob. I kid you not.

[fast4522]

It actual takes more than a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. But if you say anything bad about it in this state, you will running from a lynch mob. I kid you not.

To which I doubt, but I believe this lady

[ArlJim78]

these guys make the keystone cops look organized. its hard to see how any nation would take anything we say seriously.

A Day In the Life of the Obama White House: Mubarak Must Go, Stay, No Go, & We Don’t Want Any Games (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/02/a-day-in-the-life-of-the-obama-white-house-mubarak-must-go-stay-go-we-dont-want-any-games/)

[DJofSD]

I'm waiting for the prez to fly to Egypt, sit down with Mubarek and a rep of the opposition and drink a beer.

Oh ya, muslems don't drink. No wonder Obama doesn't have a plan.

[boxcar]

It actual takes more than a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. But if you say anything bad about it in this state, you will running from a lynch mob. I kid you not.

Ethanol for fuel is bad idea of monumental proportions on so many levels. Even Gore admitted it's not a good idea. So, what did the government do recently? It mandated a 50% increase of the stuff into gasoline mixtures so that we have even less corn for food and livestock feed! :bang: :bang: :bang: A price for one ear of corn down in my neck of the woods is $1.50.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Maybe Mobama can go there and raise his arms and part the protesters.
Maybe he can deliver them two updated stone tablets......

[NJ Stinks]

A price for one ear of corn down in my neck of the woods is $1.50.

Boxcar

Better move out of Florida pronto! It's about $4 a dozen in NJ if that helps! :lol:


(I agree with you about ethanol. It makes no sense that I can see.)

[don]

Just look at all the uses you can get out of 1 ear of corn. $1.50 is cheap.

[boxcar]

Better move out of Florida pronto! It's about $4 a dozen in NJ if that helps! :lol:


(I agree with you about ethanol. It makes no sense that I can see.)

Well, your boy just gave the green light to the EPA to up the percentage of ethanol mix from 10% to 15%. Clueless as usual.

Boxcar
P.S. I'll be sending you my corn order soon. 33.3 cents per year is a bargain.

[toetoe]

On a side note, I play chess with a woman ...



Mate !!! :jump: :jump: :jump:

[dartman51]

Even his biggest fan has had enough :eek:


1. Chris Matthews Rips Obama's Handling of Egypt Crisis: 'I Feel Ashamed As an American' (http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2011/20110204031225.aspx)
MSNBC anchor Chris Matthews appeared on Morning Joe, Friday, to slam President Obama's handling of the escalating crisis in Egypt, saying it made him "ashamed as an American." Matthews, who famously declared Obama gave him a "thrill" up his leg, excoriated what he perceived to be the President's disloyalty to Egypt's leader, Hosni Mubarak. The Hardball host berated, "And Barack Obama, as much I support him in many ways, there is a transitional quality to the guy that is chilling." He added, "I believe in relationships...You treat your friends a certain way. You're loyal to them."

[Rookies]

Even his biggest fan has had enough :eek:


1. Chris Matthews Rips Obama's Handling of Egypt Crisis: 'I Feel Ashamed As an American' (http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2011/20110204031225.aspx)
MSNBC anchor Chris Matthews appeared on Morning Joe, Friday, to slam President Obama's handling of the escalating crisis in Egypt, saying it made him "ashamed as an American." Matthews, who famously declared Obama gave him a "thrill" up his leg, excoriated what he perceived to be the President's disloyalty to Egypt's leader, Hosni Mubarak. The Hardball host berated, "And Barack Obama, as much I support him in many ways, there is a transitional quality to the guy that is chilling." He added, "I believe in relationships...You treat your friends a certain way. You're loyal to them."

Helllooooo... useless coddled idiot, Citizen Matthews. As was mentioned by myself and others at the beginning of this thread, the constant and continuous U.S. prevarication in propping up of tyrants and despots, "friendly to the cause", inevitably results in catastrophe. People are only going to take so much in the brutal and repressive curtailing of their personal freedoms, plus the raping and pillaging of the treasury of the citizenry. And when the worm turns, normally things swing to polar opposites. It is a credit to the Egyptian people that they are trying to tamp down expectations and do things in an orderly manner.

And "loyal" to what and who, exactly ? It is now reported that Mubarek's estimated worth is 25-75 BILLION dollars :eek: , made on the sweat stained backs of his own people. Let's see, a former Air Force Colonel turned in to Dictator President amasses billions while in office! Hmmmm. How could that ever happen ?:rolleyes:

Hey Chrissy, how about asking your fellow journalists held now in Egyptian jails under alarming and life threatening statuses what THEY think about Mubarek's secret police state ?

Try doing some reading, since you don't seem to have much grasp on recent history. Start here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/weekinreview/06shane.html?_r=1

[johnhannibalsmith]

Helllooooo... useless coddled idiot, Citizen Matthews. As was mentioned by myself and others at the beginning of this thread, the constant and continuous U.S. prevarication in propping up of tyrants and despots, "friendly to the cause", inevitably results in catastrophe. ...

I can't recall everyone's opinions on everything, so excuse me for asking, but I'm curious if you are one of the many that perpetuates the "US never belonged in Iraq!" argument at every corner when discussing any number of issues?

[Rookies]

To which I doubt, but I believe this lady

Here's the ex cheerleader's latest line on world geo politics, as it pertains to Egypt...

Palin (http://#) said the U.S. must find out who is "behind all the turmoil" and that "we should not stand" for a government led by the Muslim Brotherhood (http://#).
and

She says the U.S. must say whom it stands with, "and we do not have all that information yet.":bang: :lol:

THAT nailed it ! :rolleyes:

Depth... See out of hers...

[boxcar]

Here's the ex cheerleader's latest line on world geo politics, as it pertains to Egypt...

Palin (http://#) said the U.S. must find out who is "behind all the turmoil" and that "we should not stand" for a government led by the Muslim Brotherhood (http://#).
and

She says the U.S. must say whom it stands with, "and we do not have all that information yet.":bang: :lol:

THAT nailed it ! :rolleyes:

Depth... See out of hers...

What would have really "nailed it" would have been a link with the quotes seen in their contexts.

Also, since you're so big on freedom, you must be elated that Iraq is now free from what was one of the word's worst tyrants, thanks to the U.S. Yes?

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Also, since you're so big on freedom, you must be elated that Iraq is now free from what was one of the word's worst tyrants, thanks to the U.S. Yes?
Boxcar

Saddam Hussein was indeed a horrible, criminal despot, who met a fitting end. MY problem with Bush's folly adventure into Iraq, was that he spent all his time on the military maneuversand nada on what should happen after. It was an ill thought out misadventure, that is simply awaiting U.S. pull out to revert to tyranny.

My position Boxie, is that the U.S./Canada/Mars will always be disrespected and resented on foreign turf. It is up to the native populace to do the necesssary work of overthrowing tyrants and creating a better society- NOT anyone else. It doesn't work otherwise.

[boxcar]

Saddam Hussein was indeed a horrible, criminal despot, who met a fitting end. MY problem with Bush's folly adventure into Iraq, was that he spent all his time on the military maneuversand nada on what should happen after. It was an ill thought out misadventure, that is simply awaiting U.S. pull out to revert to tyranny.

My position Boxie, is that the U.S./Canada/Mars will always be disrespected and resented on foreign turf. It is up to the native populace to do the necesssary work of overthrowing tyrants and creating a better society- NOT anyone else. It doesn't work otherwise.

So, let me see if I have this right: You're all for the U.S. supporting democracy around the world, as long as the only support the "freedom fighters" or "revolutionaries" get is lip service?

And don't you find it odd that your boy BO is all gung-ho for a free democracy (elections) in Egypt, yet when Iranian people demonstrated and died when they demonstrated for freedom, the president had very little to say in support of their actions? He didn't demand that the Iranian government listen to the people, as he has with Egypt. Nor did he preach to the Iranian government what their responsibilities were in terms of human rights, the way he has with Egypt. Why do you suppose that is?

Boxcar

Boxcar

[Tom]

My position Boxie, is that the U.S./Canada/Mars will always be disrespected and resented on foreign turf. It is up to the native populace to do the necesssary work of overthrowing tyrants and creating a better society- NOT anyone else. It doesn't work otherwise.

So you opposed the Canadian landing at Normandy?
Should not the French have handled it themselves?

[Rookies]

So you opposed the Canadian landing at Normandy?
Should not the French have handled it themselves?

Foolish attempt at changing the pace, Tommy.

THAT was a World War and the forces of democracy and later communism were up against a monster that had gone all in.

The countries of today's world, ruled by tyrants, dictators and militarists or Islamists, are interested in protecting their own internal borders.

But, you knew that...

[Tom]

No, Saddam invaded Kuwait, gassed tens of thousand of his own people, and came from a strong connection to Hitler and the Nazis.

But you knew that.

[Rookies]

So, let me see if I have this right: You're all for the U.S. supporting democracy around the world, as long as the only support the "freedom fighters" or "revolutionaries" get is lip service?

And don't you find it odd that your boy BO is all gung-ho for a free democracy (elections) in Egypt, yet when Iranian people demonstrated and died when they demonstrated for freedom, the president had very little to say in support of their actions? He didn't demand that the Iranian government listen to the people, as he has with Egypt. Nor did he preach to the Iranian government what their responsibilities were in terms of human rights, the way he has with Egypt. Why do you suppose that is?
Boxcar

As you know, the U.S. fished AND cut bait on the wrong side of Iranian history long ago. As per Albright, they reaped what they sowed:
In the year 2000, reflecting on this notion, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright (http:///wiki/Madeleine_K._Albright) stated:"In 1953 the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Eisenhower Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs."[11] (http://#cite_note-10)

While Ak-man is a complete nut that needs to be removed by the IRANIAN people, the U.S. has zero influence now over that change. With Egypt, they have propped that tyrant up with billions and therefore can encourage the internal change.

[bigmack]

With Egypt, they have propped that tyrant up with billions and therefore can encourage the internal change.
So it's NOT up to the people? It's up to the us as we offered the grandest largesse?

Such mixed messages from your ilk. Don't get involved. Do get involved.

Make up your minds.

[Rookies]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookies
With Egypt, they have propped that tyrant up with billions and therefore can encourage the internal change.


So it's NOT up to the people? It's up to the us as we offered the grandest largesse?

Such mixed messages from your ilk. Don't get involved. Do get involved.

Make up your minds.

Hellooo... Reading 101 for BM. It's entirely up to the Egyptians. The U.S.can weigh in only and should given the obscene amount of dough they've used to prop up Mubarek. Get on the correct side of history before another Komeini + Ak job takes over.

And don't provide shelter for Mubarek. There is great pressure in Canada to kick out any of the the Tunisian dictator's family, who have wormed their way to Montreal.

[bigmack]

The U.S.can weigh in only and should given the obscene amount of dough they've used to prop up Mubarek. Get on the correct side of history before another Komeini + Ak job takes over.
Let me get this straight. We have "pull" with Hosni because we've given him loot in the past? Now that his back is against the wall & we've riddled him with dough, we have a say in what the people want?

Alrighty.

2 Q's.

1. Why at this point would Hosni listen to our wants with cash on hand?
2. Why would the people listen to our wants after having propped-up someone they want out for so long?

[boxcar]

As you know, the U.S. fished AND cut bait on the wrong side of Iranian history long ago. As per Albright, they reaped what they sowed:
In the year 2000, reflecting on this notion, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright (http:///wiki/Madeleine_K._Albright) stated:"In 1953 the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Eisenhower Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs."[11] (http://#cite_note-10)

While Ak-man is a complete nut that needs to be removed by the IRANIAN people, the U.S. has zero influence now over that change. With Egypt, they have propped that tyrant up with billions and therefore can encourage the internal change.

You have it backwards. The U.S. probably has zero credibility with the Egyptian people because it has propped up their "tyrant" all these years. Now, all of a sudden, this administration is willing to quit doing business with the devil it has known for many years, throw him under the bus and support the one it doesn't know? People aren't stupid. They see through that hypocrisy.

As for the Iranian people, they don't trust us either because BO is all but silent when it comes to supporting democracy and freedom from an even worse tyrant in Iran. If the people were to rise up against the clerics and Ak-man, they know they would not be able to count on U.S. support.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Let me get this straight. We have "pull" with Hosni because we've given him loot in the past? Now that his back is against the wall & we've riddled him with dough, we have a say in what the people want?

Alrighty.

2 Q's.

1. Why at this point would Hosni listen to our wants with cash on hand?
2. Why would the people listen to our wants after having propped-up someone they want out for so long?

2As

1. Because his days on earth are numbered if he doesn't leave.

2. For the U.S. to go silent, gives credence to those who will say, that the U.S. would never want internal change. It's a deft, quick flowing game, that you need to be on top of. There is no turning back, except on personna non grata- Mubarek. And all effort should be made to trace and freeze those billions that he has illegally stolen from his people.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... And all effort should be made to trace and freeze those billions that he has illegally stolen from his people. [/b]

I know very little in general and less about international-type stuff, so I'm curious who would do that and using what authority?

[bigmack]

1. Because his days on earth are numbered if he doesn't leave. You mean the folk are going to storm the palace and do him in ala Chauchesku? :faint:

freeze those billions that he has illegally stolen from his people. What law did he break, one of his own? :D
1

[PaceAdvantage]

Saddam Hussein was indeed a horrible, criminal despot, who met a fitting end. MY problem with Bush's folly adventure into Iraq, was that he spent all his time on the military maneuversand nada on what should happen after. It was an ill thought out misadventure, that is simply awaiting U.S. pull out to revert to tyranny.

My position Boxie, is that the U.S./Canada/Mars will always be disrespected and resented on foreign turf. It is up to the native populace to do the necesssary work of overthrowing tyrants and creating a better society- NOT anyone else. It doesn't work otherwise.Why is it that none of you can admit that Iraq has NEVER come close to approaching the level of failure you all predicted it would be?

Now it's "well, just wait until we pull out...."

The way I see it, Bush's reason for going into Iraq are playing out exactly as he planned given what we have seen in many areas of the Middle East...Egypt being the latest example.

From Newsweek of all places:

EGYPT PROVES BUSH RIGHT

Not long ago, President George W. Bush was considered naive for suggesting that the promotion of democracy in the Arab world should be a staple of American foreign policy.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/02/02/egypt-proves-bush-right.html#

[Light]

Bush is all for Democracy as long as the democratically elected kiss U.S and Israeli ass. Hamas was democratically elected and the U.S took away the aid which trickled down to the Palestinian people. Egypt does not hold democratic elections and the U.S. gives them aid which does not trickle down to the people.

Don't be so naive. U.S. foreign policy is not as simple as Ma,apple pie,GB,BO,and Democracy. In fact GB and BO and mere puppets to those who really run the country. If you think there is a difference in our foreign policy today as compared with Bush,its only the rhetoric from the Presidents mouth. Implementation is the same and always has been. US foreign policy would never be so fragile as to rest on the changing of a president.

[bigmack]

Bush is all for Democracy as long as the democratically elected kiss U.S and Israeli ass.
FYI - Bush is chipin' 9 irons & trimin' trees these days.
In fact GB and BO and mere puppets to those who really run the country.
Do tell.

A. Zionists
B. Indian Gaming
C. The Postal Service
D. A again

[redshift1]

Don't be so naive. U.S. foreign policy is not as simple as Ma,apple pie,GB,BO,and Democracy. In fact GB and BO and mere puppets to those who really run the country. If you think there is a difference in our foreign policy today as compared with Bush,its only the rhetoric from the Presidents mouth. Implementation is the same and always has been. US foreign policy would never be so fragile as to rest on the changing of a president.

Sources ?

[bigmack]

Sources ?
Don't be a dolt. You know the foreign policy of this administration as much as an ant under your foot.

Asking for sources, coming from you, is laughable.

[PaceAdvantage]

Bush is all for Democracy as long as the democratically elected kiss U.S and Israeli ass. Hamas was democratically elected and the U.S took away the aid which trickled down to the Palestinian people. Egypt does not hold democratic elections and the U.S. gives them aid which does not trickle down to the people.

Don't be so naive. U.S. foreign policy is not as simple as Ma,apple pie,GB,BO,and Democracy. In fact GB and BO and mere puppets to those who really run the country. If you think there is a difference in our foreign policy today as compared with Bush,its only the rhetoric from the Presidents mouth. Implementation is the same and always has been. US foreign policy would never be so fragile as to rest on the changing of a president.Then why did the majority of so called "left-leaners" on this board paint a decidedly DIFFERENT picture (perhaps YOURSELF included) from around 2001-2008?

How many ****ing times did I have to hear how CHENEY ran the ****ING USA? Now you're telling me they don't matter... :lol:

Good one...

Can't wait until another Republican gets into the White House so the tune you and others whistle can change once again....

[redshift1]

Don't be a dolt. You know the foreign policy of this administration as much as an ant under your foot.

Asking for sources, coming from you, is laughable.

Non sequitur except in your circuitous logic and endlessly boring folksy style of intentional mis-spellings.

[bigmack]

Non sequitur except in your circuitous logic and endlessly boring folksy style of intentional mis-spellings.
Oooo.

Tell us your knowledge of the current administrations foreign policy.

We'll wait. And wait...........

[redshift1]

Oooo.

Tell us your knowledge of the current administrations foreign policy.

We'll wait. And wait...........


Channelling Katie Couric tonight ?

[bigmack]

Channelling Katie Couric tonight ?
And wait......

Just one post. Have anything to share of interest?

[Light]

Then why did the majority of so called "left-leaners" on this board paint a decidedly DIFFERENT picture (perhaps YOURSELF included) from around 2001-2008?

How many ****ing times did I have to hear how CHENEY ran the ****ING USA? Now you're telling me they don't matter... :lol:

Good one...

Can't wait until another Republican gets into the White House so the tune you and others whistle can change once again....

Good point. But I'm not contradicting myself and I only speak for myself. Bush and Cheney,yes,they were the "bad guys" imo,but they were still puppets to the real power in this country which was illustrated in the wall street meltdown, financial and housing crisis etc. We saw a glimpse into who and what really controls the power in this country.

Now if McCain and Palin were elected,yes you would hear a lot more demonization from the left on this board and this country.You're right about that. The anti war movement's intensity would be much stronger than it is today. Barack is fooling the left on one hand and making deals with the military industrial complex with the other. Clinton was the same. Bush and Cheney were inflammatory because they came right out and said what they were going to do. Yes,at least they were a little more honest, but still quite secretive. They appealed to the redneck/simpleton mentally in this country who can't see beyond their nose. To me, Barack is nothing but a black Bush. Things haven't really changed much. All those broken promises? Well either he was naive enough to believe one man could override the power in this country or he was just playing the people to get their vote.

After Barack was elected,there was a secret presidential briefing which took 2 or 3 days. When he emerged from that meeting,I saw a different Obama. I think that is where a president gets told who really runs the country and who he really works for,including the direction our foreign policy will take whether he likes it or not.

[rastajenk]

To me, Barack is nothing but a black Bush. Why do you mention his skin color? Didn't Dr. King ask us over 40 years ago to get past that? A little latent racism oozing out?

[toetoe]

Non sequitur except in your circuitous logic and endlessly boring folksy style of intentional mis-spellings.


I find the fellow quite sequitur, compos mentos and nulli secundus. Also, folksy and endfully boring.

As to your lachrymose lamentations over misspelt melk, well ... don't trip, Sir. Jes' tie yer shoe.

Eh, what's that ? Cum laude, please. :p



Now, feel free to tell me my own intentionations.

[toetoe]

FYI - Bush is chipin' 9 irons & trimin' trees these days.





His babykillingness tried this one on the press the other day at the golf course:

"We're buyin' shrimp here, guys." :D



"To chipe; perchance to trime." :p and ;)

[bigmack]

I find the fellow quite sequitur, compos mentos and nulli secundus. Also, folksy and endfully boring.
Where the H-E double hockey sticks have you been, Soldier?

[toetoe]

Sir, I've been helping Sarah Shahi in her search for a worthy husband, Sir. Sir, mission impossible, Sir. Sir, grasping at straws here, but Sir, are you available, Sir ? Sir, tell no one --- your ears only --- Li'l Toe is at atten-hut, Sir. (:Saluting crisply.)

[toetoe]

Why do you mention his skin color? Didn't Dr. King ask us over 40 years ago to get past that? A little latent racism oozing out?



:sleeping: . That canard was wheezing when I was a kid in Berkeley. You can do better than that ... um, oops ... sorry, never mind. Carry on.

[redshift1]

I find the fellow quite sequitur, compos mentos and nulli secundus. Also, folksy and endfully boring.

As to your lachrymose lamentations over misspelt melk, well ... don't trip, Sir. Jes' tie yer shoe.

Eh, what's that ? Cum laude, please. :p



Now, feel free to tell me my own intentionations.

As per your request.

Somewhere between disjunctive narrative and egocentric stream of consciousness blathering.

[toetoe]

disjunctive ... egocentric ... blathering.



Charge 1: Yer just sayin' that, but thanks. :blush: .

Charge 2: I wish. Oh, how I wish.

Charge 3: Your point, please ? :D

[ArlJim78]

Earlier there was a report that Mubarak was going to step down today, so right away Obama gets in front of the microphone to say that "we're watching history being made in Egypt", of course trying to attach some relevance to himself and the whole "Yes We Can" campaign blather.

a few hours later Mubarak addresses Egypt and says he is not stepping down and vows to stay in office until the September elections. lol, Bambi schooled by the old man once again! its truly amatuer hour with this bunch.

Defiant Mubarak vows to stay in office until Sept. elections (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/02/egypts-supreme-council-of-armed-forces-meeting-on-crisis/1?csp=hf)

[boxcar]

Earlier there was a report that Mubarak was going to step down today, so right away Obama gets in front of the microphone to say that "we're watching history being made in Egypt", of course trying to attach some relevance to himself and the whole "Yes We Can" campaign blather.

a few hours later Mubarak addresses Egypt and says he is not stepping down and vows to stay in office until the September elections. lol, Bambi schooled by the old man once again! its truly amatuer hour with this bunch.

Defiant Mubarak vows to stay in office until Sept. elections (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/02/egypts-supreme-council-of-armed-forces-meeting-on-crisis/1?csp=hf)

Not only that but Mubarak essentially told the world to not interfere with Egypt's internal affairs. (A direct slap in the face to our own Rush-to-Judgment-in-Chief. :D ) And he implored the Egyptian people to not pay attention to foreign news reports and commentaries.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

Mubarak just signed his own death warrant. He could have gotten out, but not anymore. Who thinks the protesters are going away because he asked nicely? He has lost what little control of the army he had, if he ever had any. His henchmen tried to put down the revolt. That lasted one day. They are now nowhere to be seen. It only matter of time before the protesters comes after him physically. There is no one to stop them. We saw this sort of thing play out over and over again in Eastern Europe in 1980s and early 1990s. We saw it the French Revolution. We seen it a half dozen Latin American countries. If the army isn't behind the ruler 100%, he goes. Sometimes he goes even he has their backing.

[Robert Goren]

Not only that but Mubarak essentially told the world to not interfere with Egypt's internal affairs. (A direct slap in the face to our own Rush-to-Judgment-in-Chief. :D ) And he implored the Egyptian people to not pay attention to foreign news reports and commentaries.

BoxcarThat was the best thing that could have happen to the US. The protesters now are sure that we are no backing him. It is all over but the shouting for Mabarak. He has the same chance of lasting to Easter as Obama has of getting the republican nomination for president in 2012.

[fast4522]

Mubarak just signed his own death warrant. He could have gotten out, but not anymore. Who thinks the protesters are going away because he asked nicely? He has lost what little control of the army he had, if he ever had any. His henchmen tried to put down the revolt. That lasted one day. They are now nowhere to be seen. It only matter of time before the protesters comes after him physically. There is no one to stop them. We saw this sort of thing play out over and over again in Eastern Europe in 1980s and early 1990s. We saw it the French Revolution. We seen it a half dozen Latin American countries. If the army isn't behind the ruler 100%, he goes. Sometimes he goes even he has their backing.

hmmm ... So now Bobby is a middle east expert, I get it this guy should do what Obama tells him to do? It is my bet this guy is doing what ever the Saudi Arabian King is telling him. Its obvious to me several country's in the region are playing close attention and are contact with their play book.

[Robert Goren]

hmmm ... So now Bobby is a middle east expert, I get it this guy should do what Obama tells him to do? It is my bet this guy is doing what ever the Saudi Arabian King is telling him. Its obvious to me several country's in the region are playing close attention and are contact with their play book. Well, I guess we see in the next few weeks. My guess is that the Saudi King is doing his best save his own hide. Too bad Bush isn't there to hold his hand.

http://www.godammit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-and-abdullah-holding-hands.jpg

[woodtoo]

This is not a real revolution per say,more of an orchestrated coup.How many
"protesters" are their,maybe 100k or 200k out of 80 million people, is a drop in the bucket in terms of percentage.After 30 plus years of backing and propping
up Mubarack, this regime drops him like the bad habit he is.That being said
Obama is only positioning himself in any self serving way he can.People just go home and back to your normal lives until the next election and vote,like the the democracy you say you want.

[boxcar]

Mubarak just signed his own death warrant. He could have gotten out, but not anymore. Who thinks the protesters are going away because he asked nicely? He has lost what little control of the army he had, if he ever had any. His henchmen tried to put down the revolt. That lasted one day. They are now nowhere to be seen. It only matter of time before the protesters comes after him physically. There is no one to stop them. We saw this sort of thing play out over and over again in Eastern Europe in 1980s and early 1990s. We saw it the French Revolution. We seen it a half dozen Latin American countries. If the army isn't behind the ruler 100%, he goes. Sometimes he goes even he has their backing.

What makes you think ol' Hosni doesn't have the full support of his military? You might recall that the military did not come rushing to the aid of the anti-government forces several days ago when they were getting the tar kicked out of them.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

That was the best thing that could have happen to the US. The protesters now are sure that we are no backing him. It is all over but the shouting for Mabarak. He has the same chance of lasting to Easter as Obama has of getting the republican nomination for president in 2012.

You mean the protesters weren't sure of that at the time BO fully supported them and demanded that Mubarak leave Dodge pronto? :rolleyes:

You know, Robert, Just when I think I have seen a really ill-conceived post of yours that has hit rock bottom, you just continually surprise me. Your unreasoned posts are like a bottomless pit. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[fast4522]

Well, I guess we see in the next few weeks. My guess is that the Saudi King is doing his best save his own hide. Too bad Bush isn't there to hold his hand.

http://www.godammit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-and-abdullah-holding-hands.jpg

At least the Bush Administration knew foreign policy, what we have now is on par with what one finds in a cracker jack box.

[boxcar]

Hit the link and read Clapper's remarks carefully. Then take note of how some other bureaucrat tried to cover Clapper's utter stupidity. ("Tried" is the operative term, btw. :rolleyes: )

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/10/dni_james_clapper_muslim_brotherhood_a_largely_sec ular_group.html

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

Hit the link and read Clapper's remarks carefully. Then take note of how some other bureaucrat tried to cover Clapper's utter stupidity. ("Tried" is the operative term, btw. :rolleyes: )

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/10/dni_james_clapper_muslim_brotherhood_a_largely_sec ular_group.html

Boxcar

It is funny.....depending on which WH advisor...bureaucrat etc etc you listen to from this administration, you will get many different views lol.
They have already thrown one guy out and dismissed his remarks as his own.
Now they try to cover this fubu...
Daily Obama is retracing and trying to explain....
It's past the point of comical and is definitely entering pathetic!

[Tom]

Clapper is serious cause to be concerned - we are sitting ducks for terrorism if this moron is on the job.

Seriously, this guy is a danger to our security.

[ArlJim78]

yesterday was very revealing. we learned that our top intelligence officials have no inside information from Egypt, and apparently we have no diplomatic relations either. of course why would we when we're trying to overthrow their government.

Pannetta gets his intel from Andrea Mitchell at NBC and Clapper watches CNN to find out about the Muslim brotherhood.

[fast4522]

Tom,

I tend to agree with you on Clapper, however the hard work by all Americans in all the jobs across this great country make a big difference. The middle east is one huge honking problem that has been around for a long long time. The current administration is fairly inept with any problem, which is not to say they are easy to begin with. The inability of the President to surround himself with the very best people in his administration is the heart of the problem. The complex problems of our day mean one has to put the country's needs first and agenda much later. Ok so we are not going tho do this, why not just install this guy as a Mayor so he can run for President down the road?

[newtothegame]

Mubarak just signed his own death warrant. He could have gotten out, but not anymore. Who thinks the protesters are going away because he asked nicely? He has lost what little control of the army he had, if he ever had any. His henchmen tried to put down the revolt. That lasted one day. They are now nowhere to be seen. It only matter of time before the protesters comes after him physically. There is no one to stop them. We saw this sort of thing play out over and over again in Eastern Europe in 1980s and early 1990s. We saw it the French Revolution. We seen it a half dozen Latin American countries. If the army isn't behind the ruler 100%, he goes. Sometimes he goes even he has their backing.

lmao....keep em coming sluethy....
This morning.....
Egypt's Military Backs Mubarak; Cairo Protests Spread

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/11/egypts-military-backs-hosni-mubarak-cairo-protests-spread/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C43335

then, remember you made this BOLD statement.....

"2. The Packers are like the Cowboys last year. They look good on paper, but are as phony as a 3 dollar bill."
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78764&page=2&pp=15

Low and behold...guess what happened???

THE PACK WIN IT ALL........


Ummmm can ya Continue to post (maybe more along the lines in sporting venues...).....I could sure make some more money betting against ya :lol:

[Robert Goren]

I have been watching Fox and Friends this AM. I just found out that O'Reilly agrees with me. It is time to rethink my assessment of the situation.:)

[newtothegame]

I have been watching Fox and Friends this AM. I just found out that O'Reilly agrees with me. It is time to rethink my assessment of the situation.:)
lol...we still love ya :)

[Robert Goren]

then, remember you made this BOLD statement.....

"2. The Packers are like the Cowboys last year. They look good on paper, but are as phony as a 3 dollar bill."
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78764&page=2&pp=15

Low and behold...guess what happened???

THE PACK WIN IT ALL........


Ummmm can ya Continue to post (maybe more along the lines in sporting venues...).....I could sure make some more money betting against ya :lol:You could be on to something there. None of my bookies ever declared bankruptcy.:lol:

[newtothegame]

You could be on to something there. None of my bookies ever declared bankruptcy.:lol:

lol ...sadly, neither has mine lol

[horsepro]

IS THERE A RACE TRACK IN EGYPT. MAYBE EVERYONE COULD GO THERE INSTEAD. ITS SAD WHEN THE MAJORITY OF A COUNTRY STANDS BEHIND SOMETHING AND ONLY A FEW DONT. THE ANSWER BECOMES OBVIOUS, BUT THE SOLUTION BECOMES OBLIVIOUS.

[Robert Goren]

Fox is reporting that Mubarak has resign.

[boxcar]

lmao....keep em coming sluethy....
This morning.....
Egypt's Military Backs Mubarak; Cairo Protests Spread

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/11/egypts-military-backs-hosni-mubarak-cairo-protests-spread/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C43335

then, remember you made this BOLD statement.....

"2. The Packers are like the Cowboys last year. They look good on paper, but are as phony as a 3 dollar bill."
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78764&page=2&pp=15

Low and behold...guess what happened???

THE PACK WIN IT ALL........


Ummmm can ya Continue to post (maybe more along the lines in sporting venues...).....I could sure make some more money betting against ya :lol:

Breaking News: Mubarak just a few minutes ago stepped down. He's outta there.

Beck was saying that about an hour or so ago that ol' Mahmoud in Iran gave a speech along the lines that the entire Middle East will be Islamitized and there there will be no room for the West (read U.S.A.) or for Israel.

Beck also said that immediately after the Mubarak announcement a HUGE number of Egyptians fell down on their faces to "praise Allah", while another huge segment was dancin' and celebratin'. Very different reactions. I don't want to read too much into this, but it is interesting that Egyptians, at the very minimum, seem to be divided in the degree of their religiosity.

I've been suspicious about this "popular uprising" since the beginning because at the very beginning Iran came out in full support of it, and now at the end of Mubarak's rule, the Iranian president makes another one of his hate-filled speeches toward the West and Israel. A coincidence?

Boxcar

[Tom]

The muslim brotherhood, liberals, Islamic socialists, and communists are having a harmonic convergence in Egypt and we have a fool at the helm here.

Boys, hang onto your arses - they are about to get bit.

[ArlJim78]

All the top Mulsim leaders in the world (al-Zawahiri, ahmadinejad, Obama) were trying to bring down the moderate Mubarak. Now they've succeeded in driving him out. at best they will stay an authoritarian regime controlled by the military albeit with new faces. I think it is only a matter of time though until the clerics and radical Islamists take root.

[Tom]

Mubarak....BUS......thrown under!

Now Obama starts the real work.......figuring out how to take credit for this.

[ArlJim78]

don 't worry Tom, Obama will be racing to get in front of the camera and hail this this event, to soak in the moment, and yes to take credit. he deserves it he's toppled his first regime.

Next stop Iran! lets' get them into the streets too. I'm sure we'll be equally supportive right?

[mostpost]

What makes you think ol' Hosni doesn't have the full support of his military? You might recall that the military did not come rushing to the aid of the anti-government forces several days ago when they were getting the tar kicked out of them.

Boxcar

The fact that they just kicked him out might be a clue.

[Robert Goren]

lmao....keep em coming sluethy....
This morning.....
Egypt's Military Backs Mubarak; Cairo Protests Spread

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/11/egypts-military-backs-hosni-mubarak-cairo-protests-spread/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C43335

then, remember you made this BOLD statement.....

"2. The Packers are like the Cowboys last year. They look good on paper, but are as phony as a 3 dollar bill."
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78764&page=2&pp=15

Low and behold...guess what happened???

THE PACK WIN IT ALL........


Ummmm can ya Continue to post (maybe more along the lines in sporting venues...).....I could sure make some more money betting against ya :lol:Well one out two ain't bad. It is better than I do picking horses.

[Tom]

don 't worry Tom, Obama will be racing to get in front of the camera and hail this this event, to soak in the moment, and yes to take credit. he deserves it he's toppled his first regime.

Next stop Iran! lets' get them into the streets too. I'm sure we'll be equally supportive right?

I just keep watching, thinking, that could be us and Obama .......now that the Messiah Himself has sanctioned mob rule and government overthrows by unhappy people. I have no problem with that idea.....:jump:

[ArlJim78]

I just keep watching, thinking, that could be us and Obama .......now that the Messiah Himself has sanctioned mob rule and government overthrows by unhappy people. I have no problem with that idea.....:jump:
you say when, and I'm packing my bags for Washington. I'll meet you there with a couple million others and we'll demand that the regime resign.

[Robert Goren]

you say when, and I'm packing my bags for Washington. I'll meet you there with a couple million others and we'll demand that the regime resign.We tried that in the 60s. It didn't work.

[Mike at A+]

I just keep watching, thinking, that could be us and Obama .......now that the Messiah Himself has sanctioned mob rule and government overthrows by unhappy people. I have no problem with that idea.....:jump:
My Facebook post this morning was very similar to what you say here. All we need is about 200,000 folks to show up with signs and chanting "LEAVE OBAMA" and he'll surely see Democracy in action. And I'd be willing to bet that Obama's SEIU thugs get bussed in to cause trouble.

[boxcar]

We tried that in the 60s. It didn't work.

Really? But there wasn't a Tea Party around in the '60s, was there? Catch up to the times.

Boxcar

[don]

No tea party but an awful lot of anti war folks

[boxcar]

No tea party but an awful lot of anti war folks

Yeah...but, unlike TP types, very many of those "awful lot" were radical drug and sex crazed youth and most people in the country knew it. Plus, for the most part, they were essentially a single-issue group -- again, unlike TP party folks. For these reasons, they couldn't start a political revolution that Robert noted.

Boxcar

[fast4522]

Single issue people are completely worthless, they represent the what have you done for me today crowd. These people are exactly the reason BHO got elected in the first place. Do you miss GW now?

[don]

yeah..well, yeah in a way your right. Most of them were college kids protesting. East coast, West coast and in between. Doctors, Lawyers and Chiefs.

I got discharged right before things heated up over there. Then I got called up to active duty with the Army Reserves. But it was only 40 days then I got released.

don