"It’s difficult for California tracks to make changes without approval of the TOC".

[andymays]

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_17222409

Excerpt:

Officials from Santa Anita and Del Mar met with representatives from the Horseplayers Association of North America and other horseplayers earlier this week to hear their concerns over increased takeout on exotic bets in California and the lack of rebates available to the state's bettors. A HANA-backed boycott of California races is believed to be a factor in Santa Anita's declining handle numbers this meet. HANA president Jeff Platt and the group's California representative, Roger Way, met with Santa Anita president George Haines and Allen Gutterman, the track's marketing director, on Sunday at Santa Anita and with Del Mar president Craig Fravel and marketing director Craig Dado on Monday at the OC Tavern, the state's newest satellite facility in San Clemente. Aaron Vercruysse, hired recently by the Thoroughbred Owners of California to advise the group on betting matters, attended Sunday's meeting, but no decision makers from the TOC were present. Andy Asaro, a member of HANA, attended both meetings and said the talks went well and that both Santa Anita and Del Mar management appear willing to make some adjustments. He also said the California Thoroughbred Trainers are willing to sit down and talk. "Everyone wants to meet with us and move forward with the exception of the TOC and CHRB," Asaro said. "It’s very difficult for tracks to make changes without approval of the TOC”.

[DJofSD]

Need any one say anything more? The TOC is the problem not the solution. Talk about your conflict of interest. Where's Paulick on this issue?

[The_Knight_Sky]

Where's Paulick on this issue?




He's in favor of the owners. That means Zetcher / Baffert,
and the rest of those at the TOC who seek short-term "solutions".

Mr. Paulick would score points with many more people
should he appreciate what is good for the horse racing industry. :ThmbUp:

Instead he's betting on the wrong horse. :faint:

[andymays]

Paulick is off my email list for the time being. Some of the stuff he's done over the past few weeks has been reprehensible.

There is more to come on the issue of the CHRB and the TOC.

Equidaily is carrying the link to the article.

http://www.equidaily.com/

>>> Calif boycott: Santa Anita and Del Mar official met with reps from the Horseplayers Association of North America and other horseplayers earlier this week [see 'Down The Stretch' at end of article]

[toussaud]

I think the TOC has smoked too much THC

[The_Knight_Sky]

Paulick is off my email list for the time being.
Some of the stuff he's done over the past few weeks has been reprehensible.




Main Entry: reprehensible
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: very bad; shameful :eek:




There is more to come on the issue of the CHRB and the TOC.



The CTT seems to be the lesser of two evils.
Where do they stand at the moment?

Everyone in California Racing should realize that there is a whole
flock of bettors waiting to embrace the product again - at the right price.
The sooner the better.

[andymays]

Main Entry: reprehensible
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: very bad; shameful :eek:




The CTT seems to be the lesser of two evils.
Where do they stand at the moment?

Everyone in California Racing should realize that there is a whole
flock of bettors waiting to embrace the product again - at the right price.
The sooner the better.

This is an excerpt from the CTT. They are interested in the formation of a Racing Consumer Advisory Committee.

The CTT allows committees to include non-CTT members. The purpose of the Committee is to examine and discuss general racing consumer issues, and specifically, pari-mutuel racing issues, including but not limited to, takeout rates, rebates, integrity of the pools, taxation, and customer service. The goal of the committee is to integrate racing consumer concerns into a comprehensive report and to advise the industry of our findings.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

The CTT was against the bill, only because the bill included Betfair. They were for the takeout hike. Are they still for the takeout hike? I don't know.
http://www.caltrainers.org/ctt_news/sb_1072_and_ab_2414.pdf

[andymays]

The CTT was against the bill, only because the bill included Betfair. They were for the takeout hike. Are they still for the takeout hike? I don't know.

We can't fight with eveyone and win. In my correspondence with them I got the feeling that they wouldn't mind making some adjustments to the wagering menu and the takeout rates. The same goes for Santa Anita and Del Mar.

By the way the Betfair CEO went on TVG and said he supported the Takeout Hike. What was up with that?

[The_Knight_Sky]

The same goes for Santa Anita and Del Mar.




Mr. Haines, Mr. Gutterman and Mr. Fravel should take back their racetrack.

When in the history of racing has any horsemens group
been allowed this much leverage?

Track Owners are not helping their cause by sitting idly.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

We can't fight with eveyone and win. In my correspondence with them I got the feeling that they wouldn't mind making some adjustments to the wagering menu and the takeout rates. The same goes for Santa Anita and Del Mar.

By the way the Betfair CEO went on TVG and said he supported the Takeout Hike. What was up with that?
Maybe, the Betfair CEO wants to kill parimutuel racing in California so that his company can come in and clean up.
Other than that it makes sense, because Betfair is one company that really understands price sensitivity and gambling.

[andymays]

Mr. Haines, Mr. Gutterman and Mr. Fravel should take back their racetrack.

When in the history of racing has any horsemens group
been allowed this much leverage?

Track Owners are not helping their cause by sitting idly.

Santa Anita and Del Mar were both willing to sit down and discuss several issues. The meeting at Santa Anita lasted close to two hours and the one with Del Mar lasted about an hour. On Sunday Santa Anita treated us about as well as Track could treat a group of people. The listened and we debated many issues. I think there is room for some compromise if the TOC and the CHRB agree. That's a big hill to climb.

[The_Knight_Sky]

On Sunday Santa Anita treated us about as well as Track could treat a group of people.




That's nice to hear.
What about Hollywood Park? Unreceptive to a simple meeting?

How do they plan to address the problem of field size?

It looks like virtually no one is willing to come from out of state
to race in California year around even if they had a 50% increase in the purses

Money isn't everything.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Santa Anita and Del Mar were both willing to sit down and discuss several issues. The meeting at Santa Anita lasted close to two hours and the one with Del Mar lasted about an hour. On Sunday Santa Anita treated us about as well as Track could treat a group of people. The listened and we debated many issues. I think there is room for some compromise if the TOC and the CHRB agree. That's a big hill to climb.
According to my math, the Horsemen are getting approximately 20-25% more than they used to on each dollar bet now.
For example, if they cleared $60 on every thousand bet last year, they now receive $75, while the track still receives $60.
If handled is down even 15%, total monies available for purses are still higher than last year, however, the track will get killed.
It makes sense that the owners of the track are worried right now, while the Horsemen have a safety net.

We can also look at opportunity cost. With GP and Fair Grounds, etc. showing signs of increase (perhaps the industry is rebounding a little) versus a decrease in California, the track owners in Cali are not only losing money, but they would be making more money relative to last year (if the boycott is the main cause for the drop in Cali).

[rwwupl]

Here are the events as they unfolded... Roger Way of HANA requested a meeting between the TOC, CHRB and HANA...

The CHRB thought it best to be between the Association(Santa Anita) the TOC and HANA, The results if any, could be brought to the CHRB for approval.

Without names,the CHRB did help put together HANA and Santa Anita and Santa Anita (we were informed)was to get the TOC (a decision maker) to participate.

It was a good and constructive meeting. but the TOC rep was not authorized to do anything except report back to the TOC.

Santa Anita was most willing and gave us every courtesy.

The TOC appears to be unwilling (or slow) to negotiate at a top level with HANA and Santa Anita.

We all had a good feeling that something may be done, but the results are not yet known... and we were invited back at some future date. (soon ,I hope).

The early e-mails below:

------------------------------------------------------------------


from: ROGER WAY [mailto:wayroger_@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:16 AM
To: keith Brackpool; david israel; John Harris; Jess Choper; jerry moss; bo Derek; richard rosenberg
Cc: Miller, Robert; Breed, Kirk; Marten, Mike; mary forney; Horseplayers Association of North America; g lamothe
Subject: FW: Can we get together?

CHRB... 1-8-11

Last night I asked the TOC via this e-mail letter to consider a three way get together with the TOC, the CHRB and HANA. This follow up is to insure that the CHRB is aware of the request and help put it together.

I think it is obvious that a new or modified plan going forward would be helpful because any fair reading would tell you that the present plan is not working.. and we want our input to be considered.

Please see the e-mail sent to the TOC. We need a new plan.

Thanks, Roger

roger@hanaweb.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Roger Way 375 S.Vine,Upland,Ca.91786-7145(Tel/Fax;909-982-2405)
From: ROGER WAY (wayroger_@hotmail.com)
Sent: Sat 1/08/11 5:26 AM
To: g lamothe (glamothe@toconline.com); Mary Forney (mforney@toconline.com); Brian Boudreau, TOC (bboudreau@malibuvalley.com); billy (billy@littleredfeather.com); jeff platt (jeff@hanaweb.org); Barry Meadow (barry@trpublishing.com); andy mays (onlyandy@cox.net); ROGER WAY (wayroger_@hotmail.com); Horseplayers Association of North America (horseplayersassociation@gmail.com); Mike Marten (mikem@chrb.ca.gov)
TOC, 1-8-11

We are aware that you as representing owners and many horsemen in California have your hands full of many important issues at this time.

Our California horse racing is suffering an unprecedented decline in handle and popularity due to the simple fact that customers do not support the product as they once did and have chosen other gaming that offers better and quicker rewards.

The Horseplayers Association of North America or HANA is made up of core players, owners, and horsemen across the U.S. and we think we can contribute information and a view that may be helpful to the California industry

We have a system in California that makes it difficult to achieve consensus or even debate or hear ideas on many things from one another. We get plenty of the racetrack and horsemen view, but it is always self serving (sorry), and has not been successful to attract fans and handle.

We need to change that

HANA is made up of volunteers and has no axe to grind except to grow the fan base and handle, which would solve near all problems of our industry.

We understand that your view is that bigger purses will save the game… but I will remind you that this has been attempted several times in the past ( S/B 27 $40 million, S/B16 as noted in your latest news letter and S/B1072 $70 million) without achieving the goal.

The bigger purses approach has never worked long term, and if it had we would not be in trouble today. Reading the numbers at Santa Anita we continue down everywhere and the promises of bigger legislated purses from the fans pockets to your purses are not delivering the goods.

The problem is that you are chasing fans and handle away, instead of attracting them.

HANA has no seat at anyone’s table and the TOC has control over many items that we would want to be heard about our view and reasons.. The CHRB has control over many items that we want to be heard about our view and reasons. These items take more than 3 minutes at a podium and is a waste of time without decision makers at the table to move things along…without naming a committee to have issues fade away under the rug.
Racing needs us (customers) a lot more than we need you. (sorry again, but that’s it)

We know we all have our interests and come from different planets on many issues but the time has arrived (we think) to have a few good men to come together and see if we can make some sort of new and consensus plan that we all can live with, and grow the fan base and handle the way it was originally intended, and put aside a bigger war that is bound to occur and cause further decline of the Ca. product..

I have reason to believe the CHRB is willing to do anything to turn things around in a positive direction, and my hope is that you feel the same way and HANA is ready to contribute also. Each interest can bring their own slate to be heard.

So, is there a chance that the TOC and the CHRB get together and set up such a meeting to attempt to put together a new master plan or make modifications and hear the HANA view too? I think we would all understand each other better as a minimum benefit. Our game is worth it.

All the Best, Roger Way

roger@hanaweb.org


Roger Way 375 S.Vine,Upland,Ca.91786-7145(Tel/Fax;909-982-2405)

[The_Knight_Sky]

I understand the TOC or the CHRB does not have an expert
on racetrack economics holding a seat. So the question of the day is....


Q: Which individual(s) erroneously advised them that raising the takeouts
would be best for the California industry?

[DeanT]

I understand the TOC or the CHRB does not have an expert
on racetrack economics holding a seat. So the question of the day is....


Q: Which individual(s) erroneously advised them that raising the takeouts
would be best for the California industry?

Im not sure.

I think they thought of that one all by themselves.

[rwwupl]

I understand the TOC or the CHRB does not have an expert
on racetrack economics holding a seat. So the question of the day is....


Q: Which individual(s) erroneously advised them that raising the takeouts
would be best for the California industry?


The 2-3% raise was inspired by the horsemen of the TOC on the theory that bigger purses would bring larger fields and attract more customers.

That is the first choice of horsemen and has been tried several times in the past without positive results. It appears there will not be significant results this time.

The horsemens new advisor for gaming affairs is Aaron Vercruysse, from HRTV.

A short Bio.....


A native of Idaho, Aaron Vercruysse graduated from the same Boise, Idaho-area high school as Hall of Fame jockey Gary Stevens. That doesn't mean Vercruysse can ride horses or act, so he's found another niche in the racing industry as one of HRTV's freshest hosts.

Vercruysse graduated from the University of Arizona Racetrack Industry Program, with a major in Animal Science. His first job in racing was with Magna Entertainment Corp. as the Assistant to the Director of Simulcasting.

"My dream was to call races and to be an analyst on TV," he says. "I'd talk racing for hours with you if you'd let me."

Vercruysse called races at Bay Meadows in San Mateo, CA and worked as a contestant/handicapper on a racing show hosted by HDNET. In 2004 he was promoted to Simulcast Coordinator for MEC California, including Santa Anita, Golden Gate and Oak Tree at Santa Anita.

He soon joined HRTV in the Host/Analyst role.

Vercruysse brings a youthful energy and a fresh outlook to the game and considers himself both an employee and a fan.

"When I sit down at the HRTV desk, I don't feel like I'm working," says Vercruysse. "I feel like a very fortunate fan."

[jelly]

Santa Anita and Del Mar were both willing to sit down and discuss several issues. The meeting at Santa Anita lasted close to two hours and the one with Del Mar lasted about an hour. On Sunday Santa Anita treated us about as well as Track could treat a group of people. The listened and we debated many issues. I think there is room for some compromise if the TOC and the CHRB agree. That's a big hill to climb.



Good to see they're starting to listen.Something has to give Ca. can't continue with such a large handle loss.

[The_Knight_Sky]

The horsemens new advisor for gaming affairs is Aaron Vercruysse, from HRTV.




I understand that Mr. Vercrusse is a recent hire.
The notion of significantly raising the takeouts must have taken root
long before he came on board.

__________________________________________________ ___

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60154/aaron-vercruysse-added-as-toc-consultant

“We’re very excited about bringing Aaron aboard, and his addition couldn’t be coming at a better time,” said Brian Boudreau, TOC vice chairman and also also chairman of the owner group's ADW and simulcasting committee. “With so many racing and gaming issues coming up, including recent legislation to increase purses, his understanding of the economics in racing will be vital to maximize returns for owners, trainers, and jockeys.” :eek:

Vercruysse began his assignment with TOC Dec. 1. He will work directly with Guy Lamothe, executive vice president, as well as committees to the TOC board.

“Under this board’s leadership, TOC has a renewed focus on strategic issues that deliver meaningful results for Thoroughbred owners and the California horseracing industry,” Lamothe said. “We’re thrilled to be working with Aaron, who brings an excellent skill set, broad industry knowledge, and an accomplished track record to help us achieve our goals.”

Vercruysse also served on the board of directors of Tracknet Media Group from 2008 to 2010. He is a graduate of the University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program.