The Grand Prize for Takeout

[Figman]

In the interest of the harness simulcast player please note that Northville Downs in Michigan currently has the highest overall takeout among the pari-mutuel racing venues in the United States. The current takeout is 28% from double, exacta, trifecta, superfecta, pick three, tri-superfecta and twin trifecta pari-mutuel pools. Not good if they succeed at this level as others may follow suit!

[cj]

According to HorsePlayer Magazine's web site, Philly Park is 30% for tris and supers!

[Figman]

Taking 28% from doubles and exactas is obscene!

[VetScratch]

CJ,

If Horseplayer's Magazine is accurate, don't some of those takeout schemes seem like some cards were missing from the deck?

Like you said, PHA takes 30% from TRI/SUPER pools... but then only 20% from Exactas? I realize TRI/SUPER wagers are more burdensome for clerks to punch, consume more parimutuel system resources, and generate more frequent W2-G payouts... but a 10% takeout difference is difficult to rationalize.

By comparison, the big Kentucky and California tracks have adopted the same exotic takeout percentage across the board. Maybe Arnie will be able to "terminate" such "dumb" simplicity, which would make the Kentucky tracks look suddenly "dumber." :)

[sq764]

Try Pocono Downs in PA.. Their Tri takeout is 30+%..

[takeout]

That little book of PPs put out by Sports Eye used to have the obscene takeouts of many tracks listed on its last page. For a long time now it has been conspicuous by its absence. Wonder why they took it out?

[MikeH]

A complete list of takeout (thorougbreds) may be found at the BRIS site:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=trktkout&header=off

Also, the Daily Racing Form website had a takeout schedule. I'm sure there are a few others.

[Figman]

I don't see any track on the referenced list with 28% double or exacta takeout like Northville Downs!

[takeout]

That has got to be a record. 28% for two horse bets is insane. 10% should be the MAXIMUM takeout for ALL bets. No wiggle room, no double-talk, no sliding scale (as with the often touted nickel breakage of NY). TEN PERCENT - MAX!

[sq764]

This is pretty sick:


Pennsylvania
(Takeout - 17% on regular wagering pools (19% if average daily handle is less than $300,000), 20% on exactas, daily doubles, quinellas, 26-35% on trifectas)

Here's a good reference (Arizona might take the cake)

http://www.horseworlddata.com/pmtrcks.html

[andicap]

Why is it "obscene?"
There's plenty of competition in this simulcast/Internet world?

Don't like the drug store down the block? Go to the one 3 blocks away.

It's called C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M.

Yeah, the states have their hands in the till big-time, but these days the states are so broke they need to get their money from someplace and just like cigarette and liquor taxes go up, so do gambling taxes (i.e., track take-outs).
I would bet states probably adjust the return on LOTTO bets too when they are deep in the hole.

And if's the track's decision, not the states, then the track must figure it needs every cent to survive. I doubt it's greed on the part of the tracks: None of them are making enough money for it to be considered greed.

NYRA has a 14% take-out on WPS bets. That ain't bad.

[sq764]

andicap, your theory is great, but reality does not match it..

If the gas station on the way to work was $1.65 a gallon for 87 grade and a station 5 miles away was $1.58, which would you go to?

[BillW]

Originally posted by andicap


It's called C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M.


Andi,

I'm pretty sure this is not a free market issue. At least in Tx. I believe the take is state controlled (i.e. any change must be approved by the racing commission).

Bill

[takeout]

I can't believe that racing commissions in states with racino tracks haven't lowered their takeouts.

[VetScratch]

Originally posted by takeout
I can't believe that racing commissions in states with racino tracks haven't lowered their takeouts. I believe Iowa lowered PRM takeouts to what were the lowest in the nation when they started casino/racino operations. They have subsequently raised PRM takeout, and this may happen in other casino/racino states. What happens is that when other lobbying interests see the slot-tax bonanza, since concept of subsidies has been approved, the legislatures come under pressure to modify subsidy regulations to include other worthy causes by reducing subsidies for racing.

At state and federal levels, lobbyists write the laws... the elected representatives function merely as vote totalizators funded by the special interest groups.

[Bruddah]

The states will eventually become so greedy, they will kill the goose that layed the golden egg. They will continue to increase their share and decrease horse racing. (JMHO)

[VetScratch]

Bruddah,

And the greed you mention is often stupid greed. It would be one thing if racing's share of slot subsidies were reduced to increase the general tax revenue fund. Instead, racing suffers because slot subsidies are often diverted to public and private welfare programs that get swamped by the epidemic of bankruptcies caused by the slots. I think most taxpayers would rather see slot taxes go anywhere except back into the pockets of bankrupt slot players.

[andicap]

Originally posted by BillW
Andi,

I'm pretty sure this is not a free market issue. At least in Tx. I believe the take is state controlled (i.e. any change must be approved by the racing commission).

Bill

Exactly. You missed the point.
And I don't think the gas station analogy is valid.

1. I talked about the state's need for tax revenues in my post. So i addressed that subject. That's why the takeout rises much of the time (tho
remember at Hialeah, Brunetti set the takeout much higher in order to
take in more money at his struggling track. It didn't work.)
States are not greedy these days. They are all broke so they need every penny. Going after "sinners" is a long tradition. Why should gamblers be protected when alcohol drinkers and cigarette buyers are taxed out the wazoo? gambling has huge social costs so it's not a bad idea to tax us.
(tho I believe it's counter productive because a lower take out would help
the sport grow, especially against off-shore competition.)

2. To drive 5 miles to a cheaper gas station doesn't make sense. It's
inconvenient and you'll use it gas just getting there. You can make
bets on any of 10 different tracks without leaving your living room or
your local OTB simulcast facility (or even at the tracks themselves.)
So if Massachusetts is too high, I'll just switch to Woodbine or
Churchill, etc.
The only time it hurts is when it's your HOME track which you know best and you only follow 1-2 tracks very closely. In that case, it's easy to switch
tracks to follow. I live near Belmont/AQU, but I can follow the trainers, trends
at any track if I wish these days.