Zenyatta wins 2010 Horse of the Year title!

[Market Mover]

And they finally gave it to her....the Queen of racing!

[cpitt84]

seth hancock looks shell shocked!

[PaceAdvantage]

seth hancock looks shell shocked!And rightfully so.

[cpitt84]

I thought Blame would get it...he deserved it.

It's a shame.

[jelly]

The sad state of Horseracing continues.

[Tread]

Guess whatever sells the most tickets is more important than performance.

[Jasonm921]

He should look shell shocked. Logic was forsaken in lieu of emotion.

[Some_One]

Well the bright side is that this shows there are many many people (including so called 'experts) in this game that even in this information age, really have no clue about pace, speed and class and as a handicapper, I look forward to taking their money, like on BC day with that juicy 5-1 on Blame.

[bigmack]

If I were one of the purists to the game that saw no viable argument for Z I'd leave the game in protest.

[Relwob Owner]

The sad state of Horseracing continues.


The only thing close to being as embarrassing as the HOY decision was the Overall Eclipse Awards coverage/ceremony . It looked like a high school awards show.

[Stillriledup]

Maybe we ought to change the title of this thread to "Do you want some cheese with that Whine"

[rrpic6]

A year too late. Better late than never. Just like a make-up call in sports refereeing.

RR

[Investorater]

:ThmbUp: Congratulations ZENYATTA. . . . .\o/_____YOU did me proud :ThmbUp:

[Beachbabe]

The only thing close to being as embarrassing as the HOY decision was the Overall Eclipse Awards coverage/ceremony . It looked like a high school awards show.

You mean you didn't appreciate the biting wit of Kenny Rice ? :p

[Relwob Owner]

A year too late. Better late than never. Just like a make-up call in sports refereeing.

RR


Not really...a make up call conceptually evens things out within the same game. This make up call(assuming she deserved it last year which is up for debate) is different because it screwed a third party-Blame.

[horses4courses]

Not the most logical choice, but it's good for racing.

Nobody except the Hancocks' lose anything over this, and they have done pretty well in this game throughout the years.

Time to move on.......

[Wickel]

Well deserved for Team Zenyatta. I'm especially proud of fellow New Mexican Mike Smith. Job well done all around.

[Relwob Owner]

You mean you didn't appreciate the biting wit of Kenny Rice ? :p


I know....just amazing.....Every second of it puzzled me more than the last......many awkward moments, jokes that got no response and just kind of strange

[Sugar Ron]

Hey now :cool:

[GregReinhart]

Begging pays, just ask the coaches who lobby for votes to get in the BCS. Jerry Moss out Urban Meyered Seth Hancock.

[Stillriledup]

I know....just amazing.....Every second of it puzzled me more than the last......many awkward moments, jokes that got no response and just kind of strange

Lets have Mike Repole host the awards next year, he was 10x funnier than Rice.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey now :cool:You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Although on paper, Blame should've won, I'm still glad Z won it. Give me that same Classic field again and I'll bet even more on Zenyatta.

[Some_One]

Make up call? She did not have one campaign that was worthy of HOY, the sport shouldn't award those who take the path of least resistance.

[Wickel]

Repole was great in his acceptance speech. Maybe he should have hosted the awards.

[Relwob Owner]

You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.


And now, instead of looking at what the horse did that year, you have to look at the last three....Goldi should be 3 to 5 now to win next year, based on that, right? What a mess.......

[Relwob Owner]

Lets have Mike Repole host the awards next year, he was 10x funnier than Rice.


I second that-I thought he looked really comfortable and did well.

[redshift1]

A year too late. Better late than never. Just like a make-up call in sports refereeing.

RR

Agree 100% Blame barely beat her. Winning the BC is no guarantee of being awarded HOTY and congratulations to the Z camp and her supporters.

[PaceAdvantage]

Winning the BC is no guarantee of being awarded HOTY and congratulations to the Z camp and her supporters.Absolutely true. BUT you have to have something to fall back on, no?

What did Zenyatta have to fall back on?

[cj]

It is a sad day for racing when that schedule is rewarded with HOY. Now we can get back to racing on the track though, where it used to count.

[Jay Trotter]

I knew it was fait accompli when Team Zenyatta crushed Team Blame in the P.A.I.H.L. this past weekend....


DIVISION 2

Team 9: Air Horse 1 (NYRAToday) $ 231.00 24
Team 6: Team Zenyatta (Zenyatta) $ 202.90 18
Team 8: Team Gapfire (gapfire.com) $ 200.60 12
Team 10: TEAM NFS (Free Agents) $ 164.20 6
Team 7: Blame Game (Blame) $ 131.40 0

[Sugar Ron]

You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.

Couldn't be prouder of the greatest female racer we've ever seen, Pace. :1:

[Dahoss9698]

If I were one of the purists to the game that saw no viable argument for Z I'd leave the game in protest.

It's not about being a purist. It's about being logical.

But, going by your theme, I won't be leaving the game. I'll just encourage the people that voted for Zenyatta to join in the game in a way that actually matters....the betting windows. Thanks in advance.

[letswastemoney]

It's ironic that you're showing the one race Z lost on the front of PA in order to celebrate her HOTY win :lol:

[BluegrassProf]

Couldn't be prouder of the greatest female racer we've ever seen, Pace. :1:Darn skippy...best FB page EVAR!

Historic. :ThmbUp:

[gm10]

The only thing close to being as embarrassing as the HOY decision was the Overall Eclipse Awards coverage/ceremony . It looked like a high school awards show.

It was amazingly dull for such an exciting sport. When is Ricky Gervais going to start hosting this?

[NTamm1215]

Here it is for all of eternity, a true HOTY campaign:

1st, Santa Margarita, def. Dance To My Tune, Striking Dancer

1st, Apple Blossom, def. Taptam, Just Jenda

1st, Vanity, def. St Trinian's, Zardana,

1st, Clement Hirsch, def. Rinterval

1st, Lady's Secret, def. Switch

2nd, BC Classic

Amazing.

[gm10]

It's ironic that you're showing the one race Z lost on the front of PA in order to celebrate her HOTY win :lol:

There's a message in that, I reckon ;)

[affirmedny]

Not the most logical choice, but it's good for racing.

Nobody except the Hancocks' lose anything over this, and they have done pretty well in this game throughout the years.

Time to move on.......

How's it good for racing? She's retired. Unless the "new fans" she's created start betting a helluva lot more she didn't do squat for racing.

[BluegrassProf]

I thought Blame would get it...he deserved it.Deserved it?

Pfft. You silly goose...everyone knows there's no criteria for HoY.

Goooo Team Z! :jump:

[gm10]

I knew it was fait accompli when Team Zenyatta crushed Team Blame in the P.A.I.H.L. this past weekend....


DIVISION 2

Team 9: Air Horse 1 (NYRAToday) $ 231.00 24
Team 6: Team Zenyatta (Zenyatta) $ 202.90 18
Team 8: Team Gapfire (gapfire.com) $ 200.60 12
Team 10: TEAM NFS (Free Agents) $ 164.20 6
Team 7: Blame Game (Blame) $ 131.40 0

Sharp observation :ThmbUp:

[Bruddah]

Even Z's loss proved she could race with any horse (male or female) on any surface (dirt or artificial) over a 3year schedule. No other horse could do that.

That said, I wouldn't have been upset with Blame getting the nod for HOY.

Congratulations team Zenyatta. :ThmbUp:

[Some_One]

Here it is for all of eternity, a true HOTY campaign:

1st, Santa Margarita, def. Dance To My Tune, Striking Dancer

1st, Apple Blossom, def. Taptam, Just Jenda

1st, Vanity, def. St Trinian's, Zardana,

1st, Clement Hirsch, def. Rinterval

1st, Lady's Secret, def. Switch

2nd, BC Classic

Amazing.

Totally agree, compare that to the campaign's of the other HOY's this year, So You Think, Goldikova and Buena Vista and you just can't help feel sad for the ignorance of the horsemen and turf writers on this side of the pond.

[Some_One]

Even Z's loss proved she could race with any horse (male or female) on any surface (dirt or artificial) over a 3year schedule. No other horse could do that.

That said, I wouldn't have been upset with Blame getting the nod for HOY.

Congratulations team Zenyatta. :ThmbUp:

You do know there is a 3rd surface where 90% of the world race on eh? Being a champion of polytrack means nothing where there might be a total of maybe 3,000 horses that have ever raced on polytrack compared to the centuries of turf racing.

[Dahoss9698]

You do know there is a 3rd surface where 90% of the world race on eh? Being a champion of polytrack means nothing where there might be a total of maybe 3,000 horses that have ever raced on polytrack compared to the centuries of turf racing.

Amen Bruddah!

[jelly]

Make up call? She did not have one campaign that was worthy of HOY, the sport shouldn't award those who take the path of least resistance.




Unfortunately the voters did just that.

[OTM Al]

Thank god it's over.

[Bruiser1]

You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.

This is kind of like if University Of Oregon had been voted BCS National Champion after losing to Auburn

[Sericm]

You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.

Or maybe the loss to Haynesfield had something to do with out. Oh, let me see Pace maybe Rachel should have won for her two stirring victories this year!

[Charlie D]

Thank god it's over.

It's been interesting and fun, but i do tend to agree

[Sericm]

It is a sad day for racing when that schedule is rewarded with HOY. Now we can get back to racing on the track though, where it used to count.

Except for last year right!

[TRM]

Originally Posted by OTM Al
Thank god it's over.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Sugar Ron]

Here it is for all of eternity, a true HOTY campaign:

1st, Santa Margarita, def. Dance To My Tune, Striking Dancer

1st, Apple Blossom, def. Taptam, Just Jenda

1st, Vanity, def. St Trinian's, Zardana,

1st, Clement Hirsch, def. Rinterval

1st, Lady's Secret, def. Switch

2nd, BC Classic

Amazing.

Nice summary ... but please include the weight she had to spot her female rivals ... the fact that the '09 HotY bailed from the Apple Blossom ... the fact that the best 3yo filly wanted no part of her in the Lady's Secret ... and the fact that many 'cappers thought she was the best horse in the BCC despite the narrow loss.


And yeah ... the great Cali mare was AMAZING! :cool:

[HuggingTheRail]

This just in....Zenyatta 6-5 to win 2011 HOTY as well....

[Charlie D]

Fact, Blame beat her and numerous other Graded winners and that apparently counts for nothing with a lot of those who write and talk about this Great Game.


Just shows what load of asses we have writing and talking about this sport in my humble opinion.

[Nets]

Thank god it's over.

The only 100% accurate post on this whole ridiculous subject!:)

[Grits]

Its appropriate that today is MLK Day, I feel like . . . "free at last, Great God Almighty, free at last."

I am SO glad it is over. NO MORE. DONE DEAL. GONE.

One reason for being pleased--for the next two weeks, your tax dollars won't be spent with police search and rescue having to drag and lift floaters out of the waters underneath the Golden Gate or other bridges on the "left coast" the jumpers may have launched themselves from had Zenyatta lost.:faint:

"Righter coasters" move on. You wouldn't have seen us hovering high atop the Verrazano, the George Washington, the Throgs Neck, or any other spans further south. No way. LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Valuist]

What's next? Oregon wins the college football championship? The Patriots are awarded the win over the Jets due to Tom Brady's popularity?

You face a tougher campaign, you face male horses all year while the "other" candidate faces garbage cans in 4 races, gets a made to order fast pace and clear run on the outside....but you still outfinish her even though you don't see her until the final 50 yards. Under no circumstances was she superior to you......my condolences to Blame's connections.

Apparently popularity trumps results.

[Some_One]

Nice summary ... but please include the weight she had to spot her female rivals ... the fact that the '09 HotY bailed from the Apple Blossom ... the fact that the best 3yo filly wanted no part of her in the Lady's Secret ... and the fact that many 'cappers thought she was the best horse in the BCC despite the narrow loss.


And yeah ... the great Cali mare was AMAZING! :cool:

1)She had to spot weight because they were at least 6-9 lengths slower then Z
2)There is a difference between bailing and not being fit
3)The best 3yr old filly went to the race with the 750K purse, not a measly 150K or 200K whatever that 'G1' was worth

[OntheRail]

Well this is sorta disappointing just like Zenyatta's 2010 campaign.

But what the hay... we know what was what in 2010 and the replay's will be there for all time.

Congrats... to team Z on the pity vote.

[Track Collector]

Voters could not bring themselves to deny Zenyatta HOTY for another year, thus they avoided the facts and denied the more deserving Blame.

Even if you think it was close before the BC, Blame's victory there should have been the deciding factor, regardless of the margin of victory. Looks like voters voted with their heart, and not their minds.

[Valuist]

This just in: the winner of the Juvenile Turf has been named top 2YO over Uncle Mo because he was more popular among female race fans.

[SmartyParty]

You have to feel just a little bit embarrassed, right? :lol:

What happens on the track and who you've beaten all year now means absolutely nothing.

Sorry, but she won the Classic last year!

[Charlie D]

1)She had to spot weight because they were at least 6-9 lengths slower then Z



Don't confuse Sugar Ron with handicapping logic as he does not understand it.

[Tom]

And they all liver happily ever after.

Good night,
Sleep tight.
Dream sweet dreams.

5EoQVaQGXmM

[Valuist]

Sorry, but she won the Classic last year!

The award is Horse of the YEAR for 2010....not for a two year period or what some people believe was a past unjust decision.

[Charlie D]

Valuist .People have to use 2009 etc because there is nothing for them to shout about in 2010.

[GatetoWire]

This just shows how really messed up Horse Racing is!!!!!

The powers that be can't even get this right!!!!

How come everyone who runs this game or writes about it is a complete moron?

[mountainman]

Major props to those who predicted this, especially saratoga guy who now has money coming from me.

[mostpost]

Here it is for all of eternity, a true HOTY campaign:

1st, Santa Margarita, def. Dance To My Tune, Striking Dancer

1st, Apple Blossom, def. Taptam, Just Jenda

1st, Vanity, def. St Trinian's, Zardana,

1st, Clement Hirsch, def. Rinterval

1st, Lady's Secret, def. Switch

2nd, BC Classic

Amazing.
Upset twice
Wildair three times
King Thrush
Donnacona three times
Blazes twice
On Watch
St. Allen
Fairway
David Harum
Yellow Hand
John P. Grier twice
King Albert
Hoodwink
Damask
Paul Jones
Sir Barton

What is the above list? It's a list of the horses beaten by Man 0 War in his three year old campaign. With the exception of Sir Barton, who was not at his best during the Kenilworth Match Race, this is not exactly a Who's Who of racing for that time.
What's the point? You can only beat those who are willing to race against you. So, your publishing of a list of who Zenyatta beat is meaningless.

You could argue that Zenyatta should have come east; should have run on dirt and should have faced males. But, we have only speculation about how Zenyatta would have fared in those circumstances. We do know that in the one race she did run back east, on the dirt, against males she lost by a nose. She did so after overcoming a very slow start, and an uninspired middle. Her performance in the Breeders Cup Classic was at least as impressive as the performance of Blame; probably more impressive.

This Rachel Alexandra fan thinks Zenyatta is a deserving winner of Horse of the Year.

[classhandicapper]

Congratulations to all the Eclipse Award winners, but especially Ramon Dominguez who is rapidly moving to the top of my "all time" jockey list.

I've already said all I want to say about Zenyatta's ability as a horse and the HOTY award.

I will add one thing. I think a lot of voters weren't swayed by either accomplishment during the year or who they thought was the better horse (on both sides).

I think a huge number were swayed by the positive impact Zenyatta had on the sport. In that regard, we have rarely witnessed anything like Zenyatta. No horse I can recall has ever had thousands of people waiting for her at the airport or at a farm in freezing weather, got a spot on 60 Minutes, accumulated 60K friends on Facebook, had thousands of visitors to her blog daily looking for updates on her breeding and how she's doing etc...

She has clearly brought new fans to the game (especially women) at a time when the sport in sinking into an abyss at lightning speed.

Perhaps something positive for the sport will come out of her great career.

[Zippy Chippy]

Both awesome horses. Blame probably shoulda won, but expected Zen to get the nod. Its an award, who cares.

I wanted Zenyatta to win HOY is because the only time all the Zenyatta detractors ever said anything good about her was immediately after her defeat. You all ran to your computers as fast as possible and posted on the thread, "Okay i admit, Zenyatta is a good horse" Meanwhile you were yelling and screaming in front of your TV for the wire to come, and for Blame to hold on. I feel like all the miserable detractors missed out on something that they'll probably never see again in the sport. It was a fun ride for all us fans!

[mountainman]

Thank god it's over.

You're kidding..right? This thread should wind down sometime in may.

[Zippy Chippy]

You're kidding..right? This thread should wind down sometime in may.

SO true :lol:

[Sericm]

Fact, Blame beat her and numerous other Graded winners and that apparently counts for nothing with a lot of those who write and talk about this Great Game.


Just shows what load of asses we have writing and talking about this sport in my humble opinion.

He also lost to Haynesfield by open lengths, stellar performance in that race!

[Charlie D]

He also lost to Haynesfield by open lengths, stellar performance in that race!


He also beat Haynesfield twice so thats 2-1 to Blame, he also beat QR twice, so thats 2-0 to Blame, he also beat Z so thats 1-0 to Blame


Seems Blame is rather good at beating other Top US horses doesn't it.

[Valuist]

He also beat Haynesfield twice so thats 2-1 to Blame, he also beat QR twice, so thats 2-0 to Blame, he also beat Z so thats 1-0 to Blame


Seems Blame is rather good at beating other Top US horses doesn't it.

Logical people know you are right. Sentimentalists don't get it.

[Sericm]

He also beat Haynesfield twice so thats 2-1 to Blame, he also beat QR twice, so thats 2-0 to Blame, he also beat Z so thats 1-0 to Blame


Seems Blame is rather good at beating other Top US horses doesn't it.

You call Haynesfield a TOP HORSE, IN YOUR DREAMS.
Quality Road was over hyped, a miler trying to stretch out. Two of his five wins were on his home track and he just barely beat both Horses. He won a grade 3 over a bunch of nobody's. STELLAR SEASON. 5 RACES.

[Charlie D]

You call Haynesfield a TOP HORSE, IN YOUR DREAMS.
Quality Road was over hyped, a miler trying to stretch out. Two of his five wins were on his home track and he just barely beat both Horses. He won a grade 3 over a bunch of nobody's. STELLAR SEASON. 5 RACES.


In your dreams Haynesfield seems to be tomato can, but FYI tomato cans don't win races like Suburban or JCGC

[thaskalos]

Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.

Yes...I agree. That's not what this award should be about.

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.

[KingChas]

Thank god it's over.

Not so fast.......... :eek:

"PaceAdvantage.com Official 2010 Horse of the Year Thread"

The official winner has not yet been announced here.

Could be years before voting closes......................... :lol:

[Charlie D]

Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.

Yes...I agree. That's not what this award should be about.

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.


The award is called Horse of the Year and nothing Zenyatta has done in year warranted a vote for her

Blame came took on the best and beat them throughout 2010, not one person can say Z did the same, including her fans.

[GatetoWire]

Upset twice
Wildair three times
King Thrush
Donnacona three times
Blazes twice
On Watch
St. Allen
Fairway
David Harum
Yellow Hand
John P. Grier twice
King Albert
Hoodwink
Damask
Paul Jones
Sir Barton

What is the above list? It's a list of the horses beaten by Man 0 War in his three year old campaign. With the exception of Sir Barton, who was not at his best during the Kenilworth Match Race, this is not exactly a Who's Who of racing for that time.
What's the point? You can only beat those who are willing to race against you. So, your publishing of a list of who Zenyatta beat is meaningless.

You could argue that Zenyatta should have come east; should have run on dirt and should have faced males. But, we have only speculation about how Zenyatta would have fared in those circumstances. We do know that in the one race she did run back east, on the dirt, against males she lost by a nose. She did so after overcoming a very slow start, and an uninspired middle. Her performance in the Breeders Cup Classic was at least as impressive as the performance of Blame; probably more impressive.

This Rachel Alexandra fan thinks Zenyatta is a deserving winner of Horse of the Year.

Great Argument.....except in this case Zenyatta and Blame actually raced against each other.
I guess that didn't matter either.

Weak schedule and lost to Blame = HOY.

Why do I feel that I am in the bizzaro side of Seinfeld? You know where everything is exactly the opposite of how it really should be. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Zippy Chippy]

You call Haynesfield a TOP HORSE, IN YOUR DREAMS.
Quality Road was over hyped, a miler trying to stretch out. Two of his five wins were on his home track and he just barely beat both Horses. He won a grade 3 over a bunch of nobody's. STELLAR SEASON. 5 RACES.

I agree. I think quality road was one of the most overhyped horses in the last few years.

[Fager Fan]

The deserving horse won the award tonight. She won 5 G1s, recorded 4 historic milestones, and proved she was the best horse in the U.S. (if there was any question going in) with her run in the BC Classic. Congrats to her connections.

[delayjf]

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.

Well said - I think this vote is the equine version of jury nulification. I thought she was more deserving last year. However, given the choice I would have rather won the BC and lost HOY.

[Stillriledup]

Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.

Yes...I agree. That's not what this award should be about.

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.

Pre-established guidelines? I'm not following.

[mountainman]

Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.

Yes...I agree. That's not what this award should be about.

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.

The voice of reason.

[GatetoWire]

The deserving horse won the award tonight. She won 5 G1s, recorded 4 historic milestones, and proved she was the best horse in the U.S. (if there was any question going in) with her run in the BC Classic. Congrats to her connections.

How can she be the best horse in America after she lost?

Blame is the best horse in America because he did something no other horse could ever do....he beat Zenyatta.....end of argument

[Charlie D]

The deserving horse won the award tonight. She won 5 G1s, recorded 4 historic milestones, and proved she was the best horse in the U.S. (if there was any question going in) with her run in the BC Classic. Congrats to her connections.


A horse who won five F&M races does not deserve to be called HOY when there is a horse like Blame around, a horse that gave a beating ( more than once in some instances) to ALL the other Top US like Lookin, Quality Road, Haynesfield, Zenyatta and so on.

[olddaddy]

Neither will ever realize that they won or lost the title. It wont affect stud or broodmare fees. It really doesn't matter who won.

[Sugar Ron]

How can she be the best horse in America after she lost?

Blame is the best horse in America because he did something no other horse could ever do....he beat Zenyatta.....end of argument

Perhaps I can help you see the light.

Blame had a better trip than Zenyatta in the BCC ... which, incidentally, was run on his home track ... yet he only just barely managed to hold her off at the end.

So, you see, it's really not that hard to understand why some pretty knowledgeable 'cappers feel that she was indeed the best horse last year.

[thaskalos]

A horse who won five F&M races does not deserve to be called HOY when there is a horse like Blame around, a horse that gave a beating ( more than once in some instances) to ALL the other Top US like Lookin, Quality Road, Haynesfield, Zenyatta and so on.Blame gave a "beating" to Zenyatta?

Charlie...need I remind you that you are a part of the Zenyatta handicapping team? :)

[mostpost]

Great Argument.....except in this case Zenyatta and Blame actually raced against each other.
I guess that didn't matter either.

Weak schedule and lost to Blame = HOY.

Why do I feel that I am in the bizzaro side of Seinfeld? You know where everything is exactly the opposite of how it really should be. :bang: :bang: :bang:
I have little argument with those who think Blame should have been HOTY. I have a big argument with those who view Zenyatta's win as the worst injustice in the history of the world. They did race against each other. Blame did win that one race; by a nose; only a nose. A victory by a nose does not warrant the complaints by many here of a crime against Blame.

[Charlie D]

I have little argument with those who think Blame should have been HOTY. I have a big argument with those who view Zenyatta's win as the worst injustice in the history of the world. They did race against each other. Blame did win that one race; by a nose; only a nose. A victory by a nose does not warrant the complaints by many here of a crime against Blame.


No it does not, but who is lookin at one race?? Oh yes, people like you.

[Sugar Ron]

1)She had to spot weight because they were at least 6-9 lengths slower then Z
2)There is a difference between bailing and not being fit
3)The best 3yr old filly went to the race with the 750K purse, not a measly 150K or 200K whatever that 'G1' was worth

1) Um, thanks...

2) And there is a (BIG) difference between facing mediocre competition and facing Zenyatta.

3) Where she proceeded to get beat by a rival which carried significantly less weight ... something that never happened to Zenyatta.

[OntheRail]

I have little argument with those who think Blame should have been HOTY. I have a big argument with those who view Zenyatta's win as the worst injustice in the history of the world. They did race against each other. Blame did win that one race; by a nose; only a nose. A victory by a nose does not warrant the complaints by many here of a crime against Blame.
Well with the trend of late being avoidance awarding a weaker campaign HOTY is no way to help the game. Blame put it out there against the top runners and beat Zenyatta by a head in the classic... the race Moss pointed to all year as the goal and reason for the weak campaign... and they reward them for losing it :faint: .

[keithw84]

3) Where she proceeded to get beat by a rival which carried significantly less weight ... something that never happened to Zenyatta.

So losing to a rival carrying less weight is better than losing to a rival carrying more weight?!

[Dahoss9698]

I love the home track stuff. Churchill wasn't Blame's home track, Keeneland was. But the real ironic part is I don't recall hearing the same stuff when Zenyatta won the Classic from her followers. Funny how that works.

[depalma113]

She didn't deserve to win it, but now maybe the clowns who race the top colts will stop these worthless five and six race campaigns.

[funnsss1]

Finally the horse that saved american horse racing for the last 3 years finally gets some recognition and a horse BLAME THAT NO ONE WILL REMEMBER IN 5 YEARS GETS what he deserves second best horse of 2010.

[Charlie D]

I love the home track stuff. Churchill wasn't Blame's home track, Keeneland was. But the real ironic part is I don't recall hearing the same stuff when Zenyatta won the Classic from her followers. Funny how that works.


I love the weight angle as it seems having 3lb less is significant and being so it implies it gives your opponents a massive edge.

In 2009 Z carried 3lb less than Gio Ponti, Twice Over


Mmmm, interesting.

[Dahoss9698]

She didn't deserve to win it, but now maybe the clowns who race the top colts will stop these worthless five and six race campaigns.

It would be great if that were the case. But it's hard to be optimistic when a top mare runs a worthless 6 race campaign, loses head to head against her main foe for HOY honors and wins. I think the result tonight encourages avoiding top competition.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

She spotted Blame 20+ lengths.

Could Blame spot ANYONE 20 lengths and win?

[bigmack]

I love
While not love, I get a bang out of all you at the ready to ridicule the weight, home track, worthless 6 race campaign types who have little to say about a collection of experts who voted for a horse you all find undeserving.

No point in bantering back & forth anymo with the dolts 'round these parts. Take it up with those that actually voted and have been deemed worthy of voting for a hoss you found little reason to vote for.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

Zenyatta has given us a 21st thrill.

The joy of knowing her detractors just threw an embolism.

[JustRalph]

She spotted Blame 20+ lengths.

Could Blame spot ANYONE 20 lengths and win?

One of the greatest fallacies uttered about the race........

she was never more than 6 or 8 behind Blame, and I am doing this from memory

[Dahoss9698]

While not love, I get a bang out of all you at the ready to ridicule the weight, home track, worthless 6 race campaign types who have little to say about a collection of experts who voted for a horse you all find undeserving.

No point in bantering back & forth anymo with the dolts 'round these parts. Take it up with those that actually voted and have been deemed worthy of voting for a hoss you found little reason to vote for.

Herein lies part of the problem. Assuming the horse racing media are experts is faulty at absolute best. As with any profession there are some sharp people in the media. They are the exception, not the rule.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

One of the greatest fallacies uttered about the race........

she was never more than 6 or 8 behind Blame, and I am doing this from memory

Here's a link you should be using.
http://www.alz.org/

[JustRalph]

Here's a link you should be using.
http://www.alz.org/

watch the damn race.....it's on the home page. she might have been ten behind him (he was at the back of the pack) when they crossed the line the first time. She was never close to 20 behind Blame at any time.

It doesn't matter how far back you are from the pacesetter. It matters how far you spotted the winner. And the winner ran a better race. End of story.

He also had a tougher campaign. What the hell else did he have to do? Fly the plane in to Churchill when he shipped ?

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

watch the damn race.....it's on the home page. she might have been ten behind him (he was at the back of the pack) when they crossed the line the first time. She was never close to 20 behind Blame at any time.

It doesn't matter how far back you are from the pacesetter. It matters how far you spotted the winner. And the winner ran a better race. End of story.

He also had a tougher campaign. What the hell else did he have to do? Fly the plane in to Churchill when he shipped ?


lol, the 20 lengths+ was what she spotted the field.

Had to be 12 lengths behind Blame after an 1/8. Even the chart has it 9L after a 1/4

:bang: It OFFICIAL, HOY, learn to live with it. !!!!!!!!!!! :bang:

[bigmack]

Herein lies part of the problem. Assuming the horse racing media are experts is faulty at absolute best. As with any profession there are some sharp people in the media. They are the exception, not the rule.
You, and a few others, have made a stout case for B over the last few months. In the end, it was not unlike the verdict for OJ. After seeing the jury pool the verdict made sense.

As a big follower of the game and after having a robust discussion over such a crowning you and others must feel sheepish about the voting pool being made up largely of blockheads.

Is this a black eye on the game or merely a result of underinformed fans & the pressure on media voting for the wrong horse?

[JustRalph]

lol, the 20 lengths+ was what she spotted the field.

Had to be 12 lengths behind Blame after an 1/8. Even the chart has it 9L after a 1/4

:bang: It OFFICIAL, HOY, learn to live with it. !!!!!!!!!!! :bang:

So you admit you posted a ridiculous post? A fallacy of grand proportions. Ok, as long as you can live with it. So can I............your little "LOL" in front of your mea culpa doesn't make it any less illustrative of your failure. Have a nice day........

[Dahoss9698]

You, and a few others, have made a stout case for B over the last few months. In the end, it was not unlike the verdict for OJ. After seeing the jury pool the verdict made sense.

As a big follower of the game and after having a robust discussion over such a crowning you and others must feel sheepish about the voting pool being made up largely of blockheads.

Is this a black eye on the game or merely a result of underinformed fans & the pressure on media voting for the wrong horse?

The OJ analogy is actually a pretty good one. I think it's a mixture of a black eye and pressure. I just wish as a whole we could strive for journalistic integrity in the sport. If we don't have it from within how can we expect any attention from the mainstream?

In the end it feels like this was a make up award, similar to a make up call in sports. I've never been a fan of that stuff. If you make a mistake the first time around, don't compound the problem by making another one. I think the voters blew it in '08 when she was probably more deserving than Curlin. She was more deserving last year, but RA had a better year overall. This was the make up.

I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

[bigmack]

I just wish as a whole we could strive for journalistic integrity in the sport. If we don't have it from within how can we expect any attention from the mainstream?
Fair point and again, you, cj, PA and others made sound points throughout the debate. Ironic in a way that after all the snappy repartee it comes down to a vote comprised of people that are clearly jaded by distractions and not the facts of the case.

I can't say that I am not surprised by the outcome and trust you feel likewise.

[Sericm]

watch the damn race.....it's on the home page. she might have been ten behind him (he was at the back of the pack) when they crossed the line the first time. She was never close to 20 behind Blame at any time.

It doesn't matter how far back you are from the pacesetter. It matters how far you spotted the winner. And the winner ran a better race. End of story.

He also had a tougher campaign. What the hell else did he have to do? Fly the plane in to Churchill when he shipped ?

Since when is a 5 race campaign over 12 months, tough!!!

[Sericm]

This just shows how really messed up Horse Racing is!!!!!

The powers that be can't even get this right!!!!

How come everyone who runs this game or writes about it is a complete moron?

Apparently there same morons that voted for R.A. last year

[Sericm]

You, and a few others, have made a stout case for B over the last few months. In the end, it was not unlike the verdict for OJ. After seeing the jury pool the verdict made sense.

As a big follower of the game and after having a robust discussion over such a crowning you and others must feel sheepish about the voting pool being made up largely of blockheads.

Is this a black eye on the game or merely a result of underinformed fans & the pressure on media voting for the wrong horse?

The same blockheads voted for Rachel last year, so how smart are they?

[JustRalph]

Since when is a 5 race campaign over 12 months, tough!!!

We don't have to do this dance. I've seen this thread before. I know where you are on the matter, and I don't think anybody cares to read it again.

You got your award. Now go back to your world and I will stay in mine.

[Charlie D]

While not love, I get a bang out of all you at the ready to ridicule the weight, home track, worthless 6 race campaign types who have little to say about a collection of experts who voted for a horse you all find undeserving.

No point in bantering back & forth anymo with the dolts 'round these parts. Take it up with those that actually voted and have been deemed worthy of voting for a hoss you found little reason to vote for.



Glad to hear you're enjoying the show.

[bigmack]

Glad to hear you're enjoying the show.
That's it? After all your vested interest and innumerable posts day after day for months you continue to pimp little old dummies around here and have NOTHING to say about the voters that disappointed you and the game?

What a laugh.

[Charlie D]

That's it? After all your vested interest and innumerable posts day after day for months you continue to pimp little old dummies around here and have NOTHING to say about the voters that disappointed you and the game?

What a laugh.


Actually my friend, i did comment on those fine voters here

Just shows what load of asses we have writing and talking about this sport in my humble opinion.

[bigmack]

Actually my friend, i did comment on those fine voters here
They all have email addresses. Perhaps your time is better served contacting each and everyone of them to let them know your feeling of them being asses rather than frivolously deriding the uninformed asses around this joint?

If nothing else, it'll give ya hope for a more reasoned decision next year should it come down to the wire. :ThmbUp:

[Charlie D]

Nah!! they'll get message via Paceadvantage forum threads and the ol' grape vine i'm sure

Very popular is Mike place yer know. Just like one or two other forums.

[GARY Z]

it was inevitable, I posted Z at 3-5 to win, after Moss swept
two awards before the final one.

A: As far as the special award for Z's achievments, JM should give the trophy
to John , who certainly kept Z in the right physical and mental
path to compiile her streak.

B:Mary Lou and Oscar certainly stole the show.


C: At the end of the day, someone should dictate the standards of winning
an eclipse award based on merit, not sentiment. If you want to give Blame
his due give the Hancocks a "special" award and admit you are
twisting the rules.

In fact, once those standards are met, there really is no need to have
this ceremony.The recepients can party at the hotel and
simply pick up the award, and Grey Goose can donate the cost of the
dinner to a horse rescue society.

[exactatom]

Or maybe the loss to Haynesfield had something to do with out. Oh, let me see Pace maybe Rachel should have won for her two stirring victories this year!

The loss to Haynesfield was suffered after Blame had travel problems and arrived at Belmont late the night before/early morning of the race. Blame;s connections could have scratched, but were willing to take a loss on that date to keep their schedule in tact to get alarger proze which they did.

Take into contrast Zenyatta who came to Churchill in Spring 2009 and was scratched from the Louisville Handicap on the Oaks undercard because it rained the day before the race. The track looked in pretty good shape when Rachel won the Oaks. I admit I do not remember the track condition, but Rachel seemed to handle it well while the HOY waited in her stall for another day.

This was a contrast in two management styles, one who ducked competition and worried about a perfect record and one who targeted a horse for BC Classic. Maybe the difference in management was worth an extra head for Blame in the BC Classic.

[The Hawk]

Its an award, who cares.


Well said.

[BluegrassProf]

At the end of the day, perhaps there's some solace to be found in those things that accompany something like a HoY award.

Each time someone mentions Zenyatta's HoY victory - particularly at the grander scale - there's a good chance that her record will come up...those concerned about cutting through the hype to get to the black & white facts should be more than pleased with that.

Additionally, every year the award comes up and criteria are discussed (particularly in years with close voting, read: 2009/10), the 2010 award will be at the top of the list of exceptions, bucking the oft-preferred "proved it on the track" objective trend in favor of far more subjective voting criteria. "Yea, but Zenyatta..." will be a go-to argument for those looking to lean on non-track accomplishments to determine the winner; "but Blame" the converse. Again, the sharp relief will likely please the most ardent critics.

An unfortunate sign of things to come? Perhaps. Can't say we haven't been warned. ;) :faint:

[FenceBored]

Congratulations to Zenyatta, the Mosses, Mr. Shirreffs and the whole group.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos
Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.


I can agree with that. Maybe racing just needed a good story for once.
Now, we can go back to focusing on take outs, drugging, milkshakes, breakdowns, poly sucks.....ya win some, ya lose some. Next.

She ran a cupcake schedule, but she was entertaining. Sometimes that's all you get.

[Nets]

Zenyatta was too big a horse for the HOTY voters to repeatedly ignore...and she was rewarded tonight NOT for her accomplishments THIS year, but for the totality of her Hall Of Fame career.

Yes...I agree. That's not what this award should be about.

But certain horses transcend these pre-established guidelines....and Zenyatta was definitely one of them.

If I were you I would make this my last post on this tiresome subject. It is a simple, honest, and IMO fair assessment of the situation. At any rate....nice post.

[ArlJim78]

Unlike most I'm just not interested in the result of a bunch of people voting for HOY. It's always subjective, but this year in particular demonstrates just how arbitrary it is. I can only think that they tried to correct last years wrong but in so doing committed another wrong. Team Zenyatta did not deserve the HOY accolade this year.

[toussaud]

how the hell does a mare that hasn't beaten a grade 1 winning horse all year win the freaking horse of the year.

[turkey]

and to those who say this is good for racing, you're complicit in it's destruction...

[toussaud]

It's not that i don't like zenyatta ,she's great. it's not that I love blame, I don't.

I like, competition, something that zenyatta, saw little of last year and something blame went out of his way to find. That pisses me off to no end. taking on the best you can find, and winning, should ALWAYS be reward. Don't freaking give me quality road "was over hyped" he's a 3 time grade 1 winner and holds two separate track records and was 3/5 in the Whitney. Don' tell me quality road was overrated when she refused, or her owners refused to race her against the likes of rail trip (who finished, last, in that JCGC BTW) and awesome gem on the west coast.

Blame not only won 3 grade 1's, he was the 2nd choice in all 3.

You complain about ducking horses now, now it is proven you can duck horses all year as long as you have enough 18 year old girls holding pink posters out on the track (not that i have anything against 18 year old girls mind you)

[Phantombridgejumpe]

Absolutely true. BUT you have to have something to fall back on, no?

What did Zenyatta have to fall back on?


* 5 Grade 1 wins in 2011
* 2nd place finish to boys in the BCC
* Popularity
* Coming back in 2010 when she certainly didn't have to
* 2009 season and 2nd place HOY finish
* 19-0 up until the BCC

I would have voted for Blame (and would have split my vote last year), but turns out the above WAS more than enough to fall back on.

You can certainly argue that many of those things shouldn't count, but the fact of the matter, and the vote, shows that they did.

Also, the Hancock's lost a vote I feel they shouldn't have lost, however was it really a shock?

[toussaud]

Absolutely true. BUT you have to have something to fall back on, no?

What did Zenyatta have to fall back on?


* 5 Grade 1 wins in 2011
* 2nd place finish to boys in the BCC
* Popularity
* Coming back in 2010 when she certainly didn't have to
* 2009 season and 2nd place HOY finish
* 19-0 up until the BCC

I would have voted for Blame (and would have split my vote last year), but turns out the above WAS more than enough to fall back on.

You can certainly argue that many of those things shouldn't count, but the fact of the matter, and the vote, shows that they did.

Also, the Hancock's lost a vote I feel they shouldn't have lost, however was it really a shock?
lol, "fall back on" what in the world does that mean? aAre we making up terms as we go now?


Half of what you listed is from previous years. None of it has to do with 2010, in which she was not the best horse in the country, blame was. And he proved it and got robbed.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

What I'm trying to say is that saying the vote SHOULDN'T have anything to do with past years and DIDN'T have anything to do with past years are different statements.

The 'fall back on' term was from earlier posts, it was not mine.

[Valuist]

Not the first time a Midwest based horse was unjustly robbed of Horse of the Year as it went to the less deserving East or West coast based horse. It was even worse in 1990; imagine winning the Breeders Cup Classic, the Kentucky Derby, the Florida Derby and running 2nd in the Preakness, the Blue Grass and Super Derby and NOT winning horse of the year. It actually happened to Unbridled and his connections.

[toussaud]

But Criminal Type, actually ran in some half ass good races all year long. He won grade 1's on the east and west cost. Important ones not just fluff grade 1's.

Zenyatta, on the other hand, beat Rentrival

[Phantombridgejumpe]

owners figured Zenyatta would be there.

I think it was Spectacular Bid that once had to run a race by himself because everyone else scratched - - was that a fluff race?

I repeat I would have voted for Blame because Blame beat her on the track. However, I don't give her crap about her schedule because she came back when she easily could have retired and she showed up to race Rachel Alexandra in what would have been a huge race. Her schedule would have been looked at much differently if Rachel had been there, she wasn't.

I would have loved to see her come east and run at Parx or Saratoga or Monmouth...but it didn't happen.

Did Blame have a rough campaign this year? Rougher than Z's, but hardly the best I've seen in the past 5-10 years.

[Reezy]

Goldikova is better than both of them

[toussaud]

owners figured Zenyatta would be there.

I think it was Spectacular Bid that once had to run a race by himself because everyone else scratched - - was that a fluff race?

I repeat I would have voted for Blame because Blame beat her on the track. However, I don't give her crap about her schedule because she came back when she easily could have retired and she showed up to race Rachel Alexandra in what would have been a huge race. Her schedule would have been looked at much differently if Rachel had been there, she wasn't.

I would have loved to see her come east and run at Parx or Saratoga or Monmouth...but it didn't happen.

Did Blame have a rough campaign this year? Rougher than Z's, but hardly the best I've seen in the past 5-10 years.
how do you figure that zenyatta's owners thought rail trip, awesome gym and company would all show up in the sex restricted clement hirsh or the vanity?

[Phantombridgejumpe]

most grade 1 races for females only are fluff?

I think the expectation to come back to racing, take on RA, take on boys multiple times, come east and run in the BCC is asking a bit much, I really do.
(not saying you wanted all of those things, but I think you expected more than I did)

My point was some fine females probably skipped races that they thought Z might be in.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

So you admit you posted a ridiculous post? A fallacy of grand proportions. Ok, as long as you can live with it. So can I............your little "LOL" in front of your mea culpa doesn't make it any less illustrative of your failure. Have a nice day........

Your 6 or 8 lengths was far more ludicrous than my number. Try actually watching the race, it might help you overcome some persistent problems you're having.

[Bruddah]

and to those who say this is good for racing, you're complicit in it's destruction...

Welcome to the forum. More statements like the above and don't be suprised if some of the posters follow you around with an ax and chopping block. (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) Again welcome to PA. :ThmbUp:

[gm10]

Not sure if this has been posted yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDFpnkTkRPI

Jerry Moss looks genuinely surprised.

[FenceBored]

Upset twice - Latonia Derby, 2nd in Ky Derby
Wildair three times - Metropolitan, amongst others
King Thrush
Donnacona three times
Blazes twice - Laurel Hdcp, Maryland Hdcp
On Watch
St. Allen
Fairway
David Harum
Yellow Hand - 1921's Leading 4yo earner)
John P. Grier twice - Aqueduct H (NTR), 6 for 10 in 1920
King Albert
Hoodwink
Damask - 1920 La Derby winner (co-favorite in KY Derby)
Paul Jones - 1920 Kentucky Derby winner
Sir Barton - 1919 Triple Crown winner

What is the above list? It's a list of the horses beaten by Man 0 War in his three year old campaign. With the exception of Sir Barton, who was not at his best during the Kenilworth Match Race, this is not exactly a Who's Who of racing for that time.
What's the point? You can only beat those who are willing to race against you. So, your publishing of a list of who Zenyatta beat is meaningless.


Making sense of any such list is more than just name recognition. The horses you list were all born 90+ years ago. I've added some context in red.

[FenceBored]

Your 6 or 8 lengths was far more ludicrous than my number. Try actually watching the race, it might help you overcome some persistent problems you're having.

The "myth of the twenty lengths" is far more ludicrous than anything he said.

[classhandicapper]

I think some people may still be missing the point I made earlier.

I don't think this vote was about which horse was better or which accomplished the most on the track this year. Nor was it a lifetime achievement award or popularity contest.

Sometimes people (even athletes and horses) transcend the normal range of their area of specialty and become so big they become "of the year" or "of the decade" candidates for more than their actual ability or accomplishment.

Zenyatta was/is that type of horse. She was and is a story outside of the hardcore racing community. That's very unique. Right or wrong, IMO that carried weight in the vote.

I think it is sort of ironic that her biggest detractors and critics over the last 3 years probably contributed to the level of passion of those that knew she was great right from the start and those that just loved her. Those passions contributed to her becoming bigger and bigger and eventually enough of a story to attract 60 Minutes and many thousands of non racing fans to her side. She's the biggest story in racing since Barbaro's struggle for life.

All of which helped get her the award.

[MickJ26]

Zenyatta was the sentimental choice. John Pricci even admitted before the BC that he was voting for Zenyatta no matter what. Blame could've won by a pole and he wasn't gonna win HOY.

[OntheRail]

I think some people may still be missing the point I made earlier.

I don't think this vote was about which horse was better or which accomplished the most on the track this year. Nor was it a lifetime achievement award or popularity contest.

Sometimes people (even athletes and horses) transcend the normal range of their area of specialty and become so big they become "of the year" or "of the decade" candidates for more than their actual ability or accomplishment.

Zenyatta was/is that type of horse. She was and is a story outside of the hardcore racing community. That's very unique. Right or wrong, IMO that carried weight in the vote.


All of which helped get her the award.

Your damn right this years vote was not about who accomplished more on the track. And was exactly like a popularity contest. Moss did not mention one thing she did on the track... it was all about how she made people feel. :rolleyes:

Funny I watch the News and not one mention of Zenyatta's win of HOTY. Nor did espn cut from women basketball to cover it. So much for transcending the mainstream media. :sleeping:

[Grits]

Finally the horse that saved american horse racing for the last 3 years finally gets some recognition and a horse BLAME THAT NO ONE WILL REMEMBER IN 5 YEARS GETS what he deserves second best horse of 2010.

This is the biggest laugh I've had in quite some time on this board!!!

Bar none. Lord, let it be over. REAL SOON.

[woodtoo]

I knew it was fait accompli when Team Zenyatta crushed Team Blame in the P.A.I.H.L. this past weekend....


DIVISION 2

Team 9: Air Horse 1 (NYRAToday) $ 231.00 24
Team 6: Team Zenyatta (Zenyatta) $ 202.90 18
Team 8: Team Gapfire (gapfire.com) $ 200.60 12
Team 10: TEAM NFS (Free Agents) $ 164.20 6
Team 7: Blame Game (Blame) $ 131.40 0

Team Blame Game would like to take this moment to congratulate Team Zenatta on their unexpected yet breathtaking accomplishment in what is sure to be the most
powerful division in horse-capping lore. ;) Congratulations are
also in order to
the great warrior racehorse ZENYATTA .
On a side note we will also be asking Jay Trotter to launch an official drug investigation and a trip to the test barn to all runners,pre-race next weekend. :D

[Sericm]

This post is really funny! All you Zenyatta detracters really have your PANTIES IN A BUNCH over this Vote.

The same group that thought Rachel was the greatest thing ever even though she ducked Zenyatta Twice.

GET A LIFE DUDES IT WAS JUST A VOTE!!!!

[BluegrassProf]

This post is really funny! All you Zenyatta detracters really have your PANTIES IN A BUNCH over this Vote.

The same group that thought Rachel was the greatest thing ever even though she ducked Zenyatta Twice.

GET A LIFE DUDES IT WAS JUST A VOTE!!!!
Brilliant!!

[Steve R]

This post is really funny! All you Zenyatta detracters really have your PANTIES IN A BUNCH over this Vote.

The same group that thought Rachel was the greatest thing ever even though she ducked Zenyatta Twice.

GET A LIFE DUDES IT WAS JUST A VOTE!!!!
As they say, "a pig with lipstick is still a pig."

[Stillriledup]

What I'm trying to say is that saying the vote SHOULDN'T have anything to do with past years and DIDN'T have anything to do with past years are different statements.

The 'fall back on' term was from earlier posts, it was not mine.

The Vote didnt need to have anything to do with past years, Zenyatta was the best horse in 2010 and i'm guessing that's why she won.

[BluegrassProf]

The Vote didnt need to have anything to do with past years, Zenyatta was the best horse in 2010 and i'm guessing that's why she won.Right, based on all those 2010 accomplishments. Makes sense.

[joanied]

The same people that voted last year (for RA), voted this year...but all of a sudden they are a bunch of dumbasses:confused: ...

the same people that posted a million times about HoY are now saying it doesn't mean anything, who cares...are now posting their dismay at Zenyatta winning HoY :bang:

I will like to say one thing about HoY and actually just about all the equine catagories...the light race scheduel they all have, year after year of late, is truly a bummer...hell, they already said Uncle Mo will have two starts before the Derby...yeah, that'll garner a ton of new fans...lets follow this horse and get all involved and get to see him twice in the next 3 1/2 months :ThmbDown:

Trainers & owners have been ducking horses they feel might beat them for several years now...I think the entire graded stakes scheduel needs an overhaul...needs to be set up in a way that nearly forces the top end horses to face off, not run off...but, I guess that's another topic.

I'm thrilled that Zenyatta won, and I won't debate or state reasons for or against...we've been doing that since Nov. 8th...

Congratulations to her entire 'family', and to the mare herself :jump: :jump: :jump:

[turfnsport]

and to those who say this is good for racing, you're complicit in it's destruction...

yeah Zen fans, you heard it hear first. It's going to be YOUR fault.

I'm not so sure I am going to be able to sleep tonight. I cheered when her name was announced.

I'm.....complicit :(

[Stillriledup]

Right, based on all those 2010 accomplishments. Makes sense.

I'm not talking about accomplishments, i'm talking about who's the better horse. Two different things.

[Nets]

The same people that voted last year (for RA), voted this year...but all of a sudden they are a bunch of dumbasses:confused: ...

the same people that posted a million times about HoY are now saying it doesn't mean anything, who cares...are now posting their dismay at Zenyatta winning HoY :bang:

I will like to say one thing about HoY and actually just about all the equine catagories...the light race scheduel they all have, year after year of late, is truly a bummer...hell, they already said Uncle Mo will have two starts before the Derby...yeah, that'll garner a ton of new fans...lets follow this horse and get all involved and get to see him twice in the next 3 1/2 months :ThmbDown:

Trainers & owners have been ducking horses they feel might beat them for several years now...I think the entire graded stakes scheduel needs an overhaul...needs to be set up in a way that nearly forces the top end horses to face off, not run off...but, I guess that's another topic.

I'm thrilled that Zenyatta won, and I won't debate or state reasons for or against...we've been doing that since Nov. 8th...

Congratulations to her entire 'family', and to the mare herself :jump: :jump: :jump:

One question Joanie.
Last year - same argument - both female horses - you favored co-HOY
This year - one female/one male - you only thought Z was worthy

Do you not think a bit biased?

[Dahoss9698]

yeah Zen fans, you heard it hear first. It's going to be YOUR fault.

I'm not so sure I am going to be able to sleep tonight. I cheered when her name was announced.

I'm.....complicit :(

Did you have signs made up also? How cute.

[toussaud]

Seriously

we need a points system for horse of the year. It's just that simple. I'm sick of this.

[joanied]

One question Joanie.
Last year - same argument - both female horses - you favored co-HOY
This year - one female/one male - you only thought Z was worthy

Do you not think a bit biased?

No. If Zenyatta had finished out of the money in the BCC, hell, if she'd just gotten beat by a couple of lengths by Blame, I'd have agreed that he should get the HoY...which brings back the argument about the BCC, and that's ridiculous to get into again.

Male/Female has nothing to do with it...I'm hardly the type of woman that takes sides according to sex...I kept up with the guys all my working life...so no...I am not baised.

If they'd thought about co horses of the year for 2010, I'd have had no problem with that...but, they made it obvious in 2009 that co horses of the year were not going to happen...ever.

Did I answer your question?
:)

[Tom]

yeah Zen fans, you heard it hear first. It's going to be YOUR fault.

I'm not so sure I am going to be able to sleep tonight. I cheered when her name was announced.

I'm.....complicit :(

Did they draw cards today?
Will there be racing Wednesday?
OMG......will they take bets if they do race? :eek:

[tzipi]

Seriously

we need a points system for horse of the year. It's just that simple. I'm sick of this.

A point system would be great I think. Because now it seems like the BCC doesn't mean much if you win. Last year it meant the world everyone said, this year it meant nothing. I'm confused?? :D A point system I think would even out the judging and the be easier for the fans. JMO

[joanied]

I mentioned a point system months ago...and in fact, the Blood Horse had one set up as an example (they used 2009 in the example, and in using the point system Zenyatta would have beaten RA for HoY)...
but, I think it's a good idea and one 'they' need to try...just have to come up with one that makes everyone happy...
which isn't easy:eek:

[Nets]

No. If Zenyatta had finished out of the money in the BCC, hell, if she'd just gotten beat by a couple of lengths by Blame, I'd have agreed that he should get the HoY...which brings back the argument about the BCC, and that's ridiculous to get into again.

Male/Female has nothing to do with it...I'm hardly the type of woman that takes sides according to sex...I kept up with the guys all my working life...so no...I am not baised.

If they'd thought about co horses of the year for 2010, I'd have had no problem with that...but, they made it obvious in 2009 that co horses of the year were not going to happen...ever.

Did I answer your question?
:)

Yes, and quite fairly. Personally, I hate votes. To me Z won the BCC last year and Blame won it this year. That's how all the sports I have played were determined. Win the Big game and you are the champion.:)

[toussaud]

it's not so much about making everyone happy, it's knowing before hand what needs to be done to win and not having any excuses.

something simplistic like, open grade 1 win is worth 100 points, restricted grade 1 win is worth 50 points, double restricted races (age + sex) is worth 25 points, breeders cup win, any breeders cup, not just the classic is worth 250 points or 300 points

in that scenario this year blame would have had 450 points, Z would have had 250 points, Quality Road and Richard's kid would have tied for third with 200 points.

last year in that scenario Z would have had 500 points, Rachel would have had 250 points. and heck, I wanted Rachel to win it last year but you can't argue with that. Cut and dry.

In other words, Rachel would have had to run in the breeders cup to win HOY. But if a horse just has a complete monster season they can still win it. If a horse wins the Donn, the Stephen foster, the met mile, the woodward, he still has a very realistic shot of HOY

[joanied]

Yes, and quite fairly. Personally, I hate votes. To me Z won the BCC last year and Blame won it this year. That's how all the sports I have played were determined. Win the Big game and you are the champion.:)

Good:)

Winning the big game and you are champion is fine, and not every championship game is won by the best team...you know, as in 'upset'...
but this is going to lead us down the same old path, and at this point in time, I'd rather not go there again....my feet hurt:D
How about you?

[classhandicapper]

Your damn right this years vote was not about who accomplished more on the track. And was exactly like a popularity contest. Moss did not mention one thing she did on the track... it was all about how she made people feel. :rolleyes:

Funny I watch the News and not one mention of Zenyatta's win of HOTY. Nor did espn cut from women basketball to cover it. So much for transcending the mainstream media. :sleeping:

Still missing the point badly.

It's not standard "popularity". Sometimes the "Man of the Year" is someone that is horribly unpopular. It's about IMPACT.

Have you looked at the celebration on Facebook and on her Blog from thousands of people that typically are not hard core racing fans and who normally couldn't give a rats ass about racing or who gets HOTY?

It was the way she won her races in exciting fashion, that she won the Classic against boys, that she was almost perfect, that she was huge in size and her presence and demeanor on the track was unique, that so many people trashed her for 3 years despite all her accomplishments, that the debates were heated and attracted mainstream news etc....

She had a much bigger impact than many other great horses. You may not like those standards, but that's why she's HOTY. (that of course and the fact that's she one of greatest mares to ever walk on this planet)

[Nets]

Good:)

Winning the big game and you are champion is fine, and not every championship game is won by the best team...you know, as in 'upset'...
but this is going to lead us down the same old path, and at this point in time, I'd rather not go there again....my feet hurt:D
How about you?

Upsets are what makes watching worthwhile. But you are right. This subject should follow the lead of Z, RA and Blame and retire!:D

[Stillriledup]

Seriously

we need a points system for horse of the year. It's just that simple. I'm sick of this.

Sick of what? What am i missing.

[cpitt84]

my favorite part was the guy who yelled "bring her back!" I wish she could still be racing....

[Sugar Ron]

Blame could've won by a pole and he wasn't gonna win HOY.

Ridiculous

If Blame would've beaten her decisively ... he would've easily won the vote, imo.

[Stillriledup]

Ridiculous

If Blame would've beaten her decisively ... he would've easily won the vote, imo.

This is exactly right. If Blame destroyed the field and won by 5 lengths or more, he would have won HOY in a landslide.

[Sugar Ron]

This is exactly right. If Blame destroyed the field and won by 5 lengths or more, he would have won HOY in a landslide.

Absolutely ... but I think a single length would've been more than enough.

Figured he was gunna be in trouble with many voters after just a head-bob score...

[5k-claim]

Seriously

we need a points system for horse of the year. It's just that simple. I'm sick of this.

Then do it.

Obviously the spineless sentimentalists that vote for Eclipse awards cannot be trusted with the responsibility of handing out awards. They are just part of the problem with racing along with the greedy owners, cheating trainers, brainless riders and incompetent track officials.

The superior intellect of the game's handicappers should no longer be hidden from view.

I would suggest a gathering of all of the great handicappers to come together and create awards to be handed out about one week before the Eclipse awards. It probably would not get much mainstream coverage, but it would be covered by all of the trade publications. Take this seriously, and do your best. It would give handicappers a venue to dominate the industry news for one day, which is better than nothing. Sure, handicappers already deserve a bigger voice in the industry, but sometimes you unfortunately have to take something that you are already deserving of.

Base your awards on point systems, or figures or whatever the hell else you want. If these awards are consistently better than the human voting awards, then people will take notice, and your voice and influence will naturally grow. Andy Beyer could host, and presenters could work 'takeout' into all of their presentations. This year would have been a golden opportunity. Hand out a sensible award to Blame a week ago, and then watch the shame of Z getting the Eclipse vote.

The Ragozin Sheets have started the ball rolling by peering into their database and pulling out as their HOY the filly Blind Luck. So there may be some tweaking involved. But I think ultimately it would be worth it.

[Dahoss9698]

A sure sign you are on the right side of a discussion...Sugar Ron and Stillneverright are on the other side.

[Stillriledup]

Absolutely ... but I think a single length would've been more than enough.

Figured he was gunna be in trouble with many voters after just a head-bob score...

As he should have been in trouble. You can't run a draw to the champ and expect to get the belt, you need to do MORE than the champ, just to get recognition as equals. Z had 2 BC wins already under her belt, including the classic next year, Blame needed to dominate her and beat her handily, but all he did was look 'small' and slow next to Z in the final 70 yards. Blame is good, but not good enough.

[nijinski]

As he should have been in trouble. You can't run a draw to the champ and expect to get the belt, you need to do MORE than the champ, just to get recognition as equals. Z had 2 BC wins already under her belt, including the classic next year, Blame needed to dominate her and beat her handily, but all he did was look 'small' and slow next to Z in the final 70 yards. Blame is good, but not good enough.

Very happy about the outcome .

[joanied]

Upsets are what makes watching worthwhile. But you are right. This subject should follow the lead of Z, RA and Blame and retire!:D

Right and...right :D ;)

[Sugar Ron]

As he should have been in trouble. You can't run a draw to the champ and expect to get the belt, you need to do MORE than the champ, just to get recognition as equals. Z had 2 BC wins already under her belt, including the classic next year, Blame needed to dominate her and beat her handily, but all he did was look 'small' and slow next to Z in the final 70 yards. Blame is good, but not good enough.

Exactly, Still ... especially when you're running on a very familiar track ... and getting a better trip, to boot.

Thankfully most of the voters realized this...

[joanied]

it's not so much about making everyone happy, it's knowing before hand what needs to be done to win and not having any excuses.

something simplistic like, open grade 1 win is worth 100 points, restricted grade 1 win is worth 50 points, double restricted races (age + sex) is worth 25 points, breeders cup win, any breeders cup, not just the classic is worth 250 points or 300 points

in that scenario this year blame would have had 450 points, Z would have had 250 points, Quality Road and Richard's kid would have tied for third with 200 points.

last year in that scenario Z would have had 500 points, Rachel would have had 250 points. and heck, I wanted Rachel to win it last year but you can't argue with that. Cut and dry.

In other words, Rachel would have had to run in the breeders cup to win HOY. But if a horse just has a complete monster season they can still win it. If a horse wins the Donn, the Stephen foster, the met mile, the woodward, he still has a very realistic shot of HOY

making everyone happy was said tounge in cheek:) ...
you made up your own point system, which is fine to make your point...I wish I still had the Blood Horse magazine with their proposed point system (which as I mentioned already, had Z winning over RA in 2009)...maybe if there is enough cyberspace chatter on this subject 'they' will take a serious look at the idea...I really think a point system would be the way to go...and they could still incorporate a 'popular' vote into it.
I think you'd have to have a popular vote included, because racing isn't all numbers, and the emotional part is what sets it apart from other sports...no one tears up when a football player is handed the Heisman Trophy, or MVP...but there were plenty of tears when they announced Zenyatta's name for HoY...
you gotta face it, the horses in horse racing mean many things to many people, and for some these animals get into your heart, for others they are a means to make money...
in short, you can't take the emotion out of the Eclispe Awards...that is just the way it is, and I really have no problem with that.

I am soooooo glad she won:jump:

[toussaud]

Exactly, Still ... especially when you're running on a very familiar track ... and getting a better trip, to boot.

Thankfully most of the voters realized this...


1. since when was z the "champ". maybe fangirls champ's. not real horse players champs.

2. so it's blames fault that sheriffs was too chicken to not race Z at Churchill downs one time in 3 years?


You are belittling blame's connections for john sheriffs running too conservative a campaigning and it's sickening.

[toussaud]

making everyone happy was said tounge in cheek:) ...
you made up your own point system, which is fine to make your point...I wish I still had the Blood Horse magazine with their proposed point system (which as I mentioned already, had Z winning over RA in 2009)...maybe if there is enough cyberspace chatter on this subject 'they' will take a serious look at the idea...I really think a point system would be the way to go...and they could still incorporate a 'popular' vote into it.
yes, that's something I came up with in 2 minutes. If it was serious obviously it would have to be more complex.

It would make a better product. People would know exactly what has to be done to win HOY. Not hoping it falls in your lap.

[joanied]

my favorite part was the guy who yelled "bring her back!" I wish she could still be racing....

:D That was cool... it brought more laughter than stupid Kenny Mayes...anyone else here think they need to can him? His jokes are not funny and he seems to say things that make everyone feel uncomfortable...IMO, he sucks as a host...hell, I think Jerry Bailey would have done better...or Mike Repole...I thought his speech was great, and funny too...he said all the right things, I really like that guy.

Marylou Whitney brought tears to my eyes...she's such a great lady, I have always admired her. I wonder if she's had a mild stroke, her speech was a little hard to understand and she wasn't walking well...she is simply the defination of class:ThmbUp:

[Relwob Owner]

As he should have been in trouble. You can't run a draw to the champ and expect to get the belt, you need to do MORE than the champ, just to get recognition as equals. Z had 2 BC wins already under her belt, including the classic next year, Blame needed to dominate her and beat her handily, but all he did was look 'small' and slow next to Z in the final 70 yards. Blame is good, but not good enough.


Not really....going in, he raced against better competition all year and on paper(I realize on paper has proven to be meaningless) had the edge going into the BCC....before the race, if you asked who would win the HOY, the majority would say whoever won the race(assuming it was Blame, Z or maybe QR and if it wasnt one of them, it would be up in the air based on the order of finish). The "good for the game", "best for the last three years" nonsense with regards to the HOY award came about mainly after she lost.

As far as looking "slow", he dug in when challenged and held her off. I can live with the atrocious decision but it is frustrating to continue to read these inaccurate statements.

[NJ Stinks]

....that so many people trashed her for 3 years despite all her accomplishments....

You were doing OK until you got here. Nobody trashed Zenyatta. People trashed her schedule. Big distinction.

[joanied]

This is exactly right. If Blame destroyed the field and won by 5 lengths or more, he would have won HOY in a landslide.

I agree...and obviously so did the folks that vote:)

[Cardus]

Then do it.

Obviously the spineless sentimentalists that vote for Eclipse awards cannot be trusted with the responsibility of handing out awards. They are just part of the problem with racing along with the greedy owners, cheating trainers, brainless riders and incompetent track officials.

The superior intellect of the game's handicappers should no longer be hidden from view.

I would suggest a gathering of all of the great handicappers to come together and create awards to be handed out about one week before the Eclipse awards. It probably would not get much mainstream coverage, but it would be covered by all of the trade publications. Take this seriously, and do your best. It would give handicappers a venue to dominate the industry news for one day, which is better than nothing. Sure, handicappers already deserve a bigger voice in the industry, but sometimes you unfortunately have to take something that you are already deserving of.

Base your awards on point systems, or figures or whatever the hell else you want. If these awards are consistently better than the human voting awards, then people will take notice, and your voice and influence will naturally grow. Andy Beyer could host, and presenters could work 'takeout' into all of their presentations. This year would have been a golden opportunity. Hand out a sensible award to Blame a week ago, and then watch the shame of Z getting the Eclipse vote.

The Ragozin Sheets have started the ball rolling by peering into their database and pulling out as their HOY the filly Blind Luck. So there may be some tweaking involved. But I think ultimately it would be worth it.

HANA should look into this.

[Cardus]

Exactly, Still ... especially when you're running on a very familiar track ... and getting a better trip, to boot.

Thankfully most of the voters realized this...

This has the makings of an all-time Intenet Land lovefest between the two of you.

[joanied]

yes, that's something I came up with in 2 minutes. If it was serious obviously it would have to be more complex.

It would make a better product. People would know exactly what has to be done to win HOY. Not hoping it falls in your lap.

I hardly think this fell into her lap...she earned it.

A point system might force tariners/owners to run their horses more and that, I would think, would make the top horses face each other more often during the year...but still, you have to get a popular vote included with a point system...I don't know how they'd do that, though.

[Cardus]

I agree...and obviously so did the folks that vote:)

No, it's not obvious that this is what voters had in mind.

[Stillriledup]

Not really....going in, he raced against better competition all year and on paper(I realize on paper has proven to be meaningless) had the edge going into the BCC....before the race, if you asked who would win the HOY, the majority would say whoever won the race(assuming it was Blame, Z or maybe QR and if it wasnt one of them, it would be up in the air based on the order of finish). The "good for the game", "best for the last three years" nonsense with regards to the HOY award came about mainly after she lost.

As far as looking "slow", he dug in when challenged and held her off. I can live with the atrocious decision but it is frustrating to continue to read these inaccurate statements.

As far as 'who won the race' those people didnt factor in HOW the race was won. Ive stated this before, that if the BC was cancelled the night before the race and then all the horses in there didnt race again in 2010, Z would have been a unanimous no-debate winner. So, before the Race, Z was 'the consensus pick' and she did nothing on the track to tarnish that consensus pick status. At least to me she didnt. She was 'way ahead' going INTO the race. It was her HOY to 'lose'. She raced amazingly well and did nothing at all to tarnish her 'lead', if anything, her excellent performance only strengthened her case.

[OntheRail]

Still missing the point badly.

It's not standard "popularity". Sometimes the "Man of the Year" is someone that is horribly unpopular. It's about IMPACT.

Have you looked at the celebration on Facebook and on her Blog from thousands of people that typically are not hard core racing fans and who normally couldn't give a rats ass about racing or who gets HOTY?

It was the way she won her races in exciting fashion, that she won the Classic against boys, that she was almost perfect, that she was huge in size and her presence and demeanor on the track was unique, that so many people trashed her for 3 years despite all her accomplishments, that the debates were heated and attracted mainstream news etc....

She had a much bigger impact than many other great horses. You may not like those standards, but that's why she's HOTY. (that of course and the fact that's she one of greatest mares to ever walk on this planet)

No I get it... so give her a People Choice Award. You and the voters encumbrance her whole body of work. It's suppose to be 2010 not 08-10... that's what the Hall of Frame is for.

Like I said I've seen not one mention of Zen's HOTY in the TV news be it ABC.. Fox... CBS so the mainstream media must not of got the Facebook update or 8 year old girls have no influence in the real word.

As for the best to walk the Earth... no she was one of the most guarded/spotted race mares that ever walk the planet... Hats off to Moss and Sheriffs on that. And her rise was tied to and will also be linked to synthetics. If Moss had not shelter her in CA or if they had not mandated the rubber Zen would not be all that on facebook.

But I do get it she has a billion buddy's on facebook and that trumps all. :rolleyes:

[Relwob Owner]

As far as 'who won the race' those people didnt factor in HOW the race was won. Ive stated this before, that if the BC was cancelled the night before the race and then all the horses in there didnt race again in 2010, Z would have been a unanimous no-debate winner. So, before the Race, Z was 'the consensus pick' and she did nothing on the track to tarnish that consensus pick status. At least to me she didnt. She was 'way ahead' going INTO the race. It was her HOY to 'lose'. She raced amazingly well and did nothing at all to tarnish her 'lead', if anything, her excellent performance only strengthened her case.


What do you suse to justify/back up her being "way ahead"...Fence Bored did a comprehensive summary of their competition and it wasnt even close....

As far as how the race was won, her trip is one of the most flawed excuses....with her running style, Blame always gets the jump on her and she could very easily have had a worse trip than she did.

Like others have said, this has been beaten to death so I will leave it where it is.....a huge to congrats to Zenyatta, as she is a very talented horse who I will always remember as proving that once emotions get inolved in things, logic and sense can quickly leave the situation.

[gm10]

This is exactly right. If Blame destroyed the field and won by 5 lengths or more, he would have won HOY in a landslide.

I think so too. And he actually did destroy a high quality field - except for the big mare. Fact is that she ran an amazing race. Her brilliant late speed probably faded a bit this year, but she showed tremendous guts, class and determination instead in her last race. She simply deserved the award, even if another horse deserved it just as much. Bad luck for Blame.

[GregReinhart]

I think so too. And he actually did destroy a high quality field - except for the big mare. Fact is that she ran an amazing race. Her brilliant late speed probably faded a bit this year, but she showed tremendous guts, class and determination instead in her last race. She simply deserved the award, even if another horse deserved it just as much. Bad luck for Blame.

And he didn't run an amazing race? He also was far back, not as far as Zenyatta, but far back enough, then had to squeeze into a tight spot in between Lookin at Lucky and the Godolphin horse before the head of the stretch. From there, Zenyatta had him in her scope, and he fought her off all the way to the wire, and past the wire to boot.

Before that, he had made up several lengths on a well-regarded Battle Plan off a slow pace in the Stephen Foster, and several lengths on an even more well-regarded Quality Road in the Whitney Handicap. Listen, it's fine that Zenyatta won, at the end of the day it's just an award, but the denigration of Blame and his ability on this board by certain posters borders on the ridiculous, like he was chopped liver that just happened to get lucky.

[toussaud]

And he didn't run an amazing race? He also was far back, not as far as Zenyatta, but far back enough, then had to squeeze into a tight spot in between Lookin at Lucky and the Godolphin horse before the head of the stretch. From there, Zenyatta had him in her scope, and he fought her off all the way to the wire, and past the wire to boot.

Before that, he had made up several lengths on a well-regarded Battle Plan off a slow pace in the Stephen Foster, and several lengths on an even more well-regarded Quality Road in the Whitney Handicap. Listen, it's fine that Zenyatta won, at the end of the day it's just an award, but the denigration of Blame and his ability on this board by certain posters borders on the ridiculous, like he was chopped liver that just happened to get lucky.


To add.. he did that, on a jockey that basically had 1 arm.

[Dahoss9698]

What do you suse to justify/back up her being "way ahead"..

Confusion and a basic lack of understanding of simple aspects of the game? It's really the only answer that makes sense.

[gm10]

And he didn't run an amazing race? He also was far back, not as far as Zenyatta, but far back enough, then had to squeeze into a tight spot in between Lookin at Lucky and the Godolphin horse before the head of the stretch. From there, Zenyatta had him in her scope, and he fought her off all the way to the wire, and past the wire to boot.

Before that, he had made up several lengths on a well-regarded Battle Plan off a slow pace in the Stephen Foster, and several lengths on an even more well-regarded Quality Road in the Whitney Handicap. Listen, it's fine that Zenyatta won, at the end of the day it's just an award, but the denigration of Blame and his ability on this board by certain posters borders on the ridiculous, like he was chopped liver that just happened to get lucky.

I haven't seen much denigration of Blame here - you certainly won't hear it from me after the way he won the Classic.

[sandpit]

:D That was cool... it brought more laughter than stupid Kenny Mayes...anyone else here think they need to can him? His jokes are not funny and he seems to say things that make everyone feel uncomfortable...IMO, he sucks as a host...hell, I think Jerry Bailey would have done better...or Mike Repole...I thought his speech was great, and funny too...he said all the right things, I really like that guy.

Marylou Whitney brought tears to my eyes...she's such a great lady, I have always admired her. I wonder if she's had a mild stroke, her speech was a little hard to understand and she wasn't walking well...she is simply the defination of class:ThmbUp:

Yes, Joanie, Marylou did have a stroke about 4-5 years ago. Still, her speech was the best of the night IMO.

Kenny is a terrible host, but the whole thing looked like a high school production. Bad joke writing, lack of continuity between segments, giving both Claiborne and the Mosses pre-HOY awards, and those poor kids up there playing escort was a shameful cost-cutting move. The probably had a two-drink cut-off at the after party.

Luckily, some of the speeches were pretty good, even if a little long-winded. Repole was excellent, Ken Ramsey was his usual eccentric self, and I thought the doctor who owns Blind Luck was very good too. Jerry Moss was very gracious in his win, and the poem he read was a very nice tribute without being silly, like that country song about his mare.

Side note: I talked to a friend who was at the show, and he said that when Zenyatta was announced as HOY, everybody in the room stood and clapped except Steve Crist, who only got up when he realized that he was the lone guy in the room still sitting.

[toussaud]

Peter Laurie would be perfect to host something like that.

[keithw84]

I think stillriledup is correct that Zenyatta was the favorite for HOY before the classic, for the same reasons that she still ended up winning: voters considering the streak, the last three years, ignoring who she ran against, etc. Pricci is the perfect example of this line of thinking: "she had already done enough"

Blame could overcome her, but he couldn't overcome her cult.

[Fat Syd]

Yes, Joanie, Marylou did have a stroke about 4-5 years ago. Still, her speech was the best of the night IMO.

Kenny is a terrible host, but the whole thing looked like a high school production. Bad joke writing, lack of continuity between segments, giving both Claiborne and the Mosses pre-HOY awards, and those poor kids up there playing escort was a shameful cost-cutting move. The probably had a two-drink cut-off at the after party.

Luckily, some of the speeches were pretty good, even if a little long-winded. Repole was excellent, Ken Ramsey was his usual eccentric self, and I thought the doctor who owns Blind Luck was very good too. Jerry Moss was very gracious in his win, and the poem he read was a very nice tribute without being silly, like that country song about his mare.

Side note: I talked to a friend who was at the show, and he said that when Zenyatta was announced as HOY, everybody in the room stood and clapped except Steve Crist, who only got up when he realized that he was the lone guy in the room still sitting.

Supreme Court Judges never applaud. Nice work Crist!

[Relwob Owner]

I think stillriledup is correct that Zenyatta was the favorite for HOY before the classic, for the same reasons that she still ended up winning: voters considering the streak, the last three years, ignoring who she ran against, etc. Pricci is the perfect example of this line of thinking: "she had already done enough"

Blame could overcome her, but he couldn't overcome her cult.


If I had a tag line, I think that would be it....very well put.

[Cardus]

And he didn't run an amazing race? He also was far back, not as far as Zenyatta, but far back enough, then had to squeeze into a tight spot in between Lookin at Lucky and the Godolphin horse before the head of the stretch. From there, Zenyatta had him in her scope, and he fought her off all the way to the wire, and past the wire to boot.

Before that, he had made up several lengths on a well-regarded Battle Plan off a slow pace in the Stephen Foster, and several lengths on an even more well-regarded Quality Road in the Whitney Handicap. Listen, it's fine that Zenyatta won, at the end of the day it's just an award, but the denigration of Blame and his ability on this board by certain posters borders on the ridiculous, like he was chopped liver that just happened to get lucky.

That does not "border" on the ridiculous, but it makes it as though people were air-dropped right into the middle of ridiculous.

[5k-claim]

HANA should look into this.

Of course HANA should look into an annual awards presentation, representing handicappers. One week before the Eclipse awards.

Dominate the industry news for one day a year. Show off superior intellect and sensible award winners. Use it as a way to integrate into the larger racing community (which could lead to greater influence) instead of constantly being on the outside looking in, lobbing insults.

I guess it makes too much sense.

[Valuist]

most grade 1 races for females only are fluff?


My point was some fine females probably skipped races that they thought Z might be in.

All the more reason her performances should be downgraded.

[Stillriledup]

I think stillriledup is correct that Zenyatta was the favorite for HOY before the classic, for the same reasons that she still ended up winning: voters considering the streak, the last three years, ignoring who she ran against, etc. Pricci is the perfect example of this line of thinking: "she had already done enough"

Blame could overcome her, but he couldn't overcome her cult.

You're mostly right, but the one thing you didnt factor is that Blame didn't overcome her LEAD. He head her in the race, but she was so far ahead going into the race, he needed to do something more spectacular than she did. I don't think anyone thinks that Blame and Z were 'head to head' in the running for HOY BEFORE the BCC, everyone knew Blame had to actually WIN to have a chance. That means, going INTO the BCC, he had to make up a lot of ground on Z in the 'polls' for lack of a better word.

There wasn't anyone in racing who was saying on Nov 5th that Blame and Z were basically tied in the voting and whoever did better in the Classic would get HOY.

[keithw84]

Some people (myself included) thought that if any of the top 4 (Blame, QR, LAL, Zenyatta) won the classic, that horse would win HOY, and if the classic was a huge upset, Zenyatta would win by default

[FenceBored]

You're mostly right, but the one thing you didnt factor is that Blame didn't overcome her LEAD. He head her in the race, but she was so far ahead going into the race, he needed to do something more spectacular than she did. I don't think anyone thinks that Blame and Z were 'head to head' in the running for HOY BEFORE the BCC, everyone knew Blame had to actually WIN to have a chance. That means, going INTO the BCC, he had to make up a lot of ground on Z in the 'polls' for lack of a better word.

There wasn't anyone in racing who was saying on Nov 5th that Blame and Z were basically tied in the voting and whoever did better in the Classic would get HOY.

We've already done this. You state something demonstrably false, and someone demonstrates that it's false.

Poll: Should Zenyatta Be Voted Horse Of The Year If She Loses The Classic? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76230)

I can keep this up as long as you can.

[Relwob Owner]

We've already done this. You state something demonstrably false, and someone demonstrates that it's false.

Poll: Should Zenyatta Be Voted Horse Of The Year If She Loses The Classic? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76230)

I can keep this up as long as you can.


Your endurance is amazing and is much appreciated.

[thaskalos]

Your endurance is amazing and is much appreciated.He is relentless. Definitely not someone that you would want for an enemy...:)

[Zippy Chippy]

This post is really funny! All you Zenyatta detracters really have your PANTIES IN A BUNCH over this Vote.


It's so true. I'd rather leave my child alone with Charles Manson rather than some of the Zenyatta detractors :lol: . Why is everyone so crazed about this? If Blame won the award there wouldn't be 1 Zenyatta fan bashing Blames credentials. There wouldn't be 1 bad thing to say on the "Blame wins HOY thread". All the Zenyatta fans would be posting Congratulations. Including me.

[letswastemoney]

It's so true. I'd rather leave my child alone with Charles Manson rather than some of the Zenyatta detractors :lol: . Why is everyone so crazed about this? If Blame won the award there wouldn't be 1 Zenyatta fan bashing Blames credentials. There wouldn't be 1 bad thing to say on the "Blame wins HOY thread". All the Zenyatta fans would be posting Congratulations. Including me.I highly doubt this.

[Zippy Chippy]

I highly doubt this.

I dont. The Zenyatta fans seem to be a little more rational IMO

[Dahoss9698]

It's so true. I'd rather leave my child alone with Charles Manson rather than some of the Zenyatta detractors :lol: . Why is everyone so crazed about this? If Blame won the award there wouldn't be 1 Zenyatta fan bashing Blames credentials. There wouldn't be 1 bad thing to say on the "Blame wins HOY thread". All the Zenyatta fans would be posting Congratulations. Including me.

A new contender emerges. Blame's credentials have been bashed for 2 months now. His credentials were bashed in this thread and he didn't win the award. You're telling me had he won, there wouldn't be one bad thing said about it?

[Zippy Chippy]

A new contender emerges. Blame's credentials have been bashed for 2 months now. His credentials were bashed in this thread and he didn't win the award. You're telling me had he won, there wouldn't be one bad thing said about it?

No, i posted earlier that i think Blame should have won. I think he deserved to win. The award didn't really matter to me one way or another, but im happy Zenyatta won it. I would have said congrats. I think the main reason people bash Blames credentials is to defend Zenyatta from her bashing.

[Stillriledup]

We've already done this. You state something demonstrably false, and someone demonstrates that it's false.

Poll: Should Zenyatta Be Voted Horse Of The Year If She Loses The Classic? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76230)

I can keep this up as long as you can.

Actually you can't, i can post at 3am with the best of them!

So, you're showing me some poll on Pace Advantage as your backup? Do you actually think that if the 'season' ended Nov 5th and the ballots had to be placed, that Blame and Z would have had an equal amount of votes?

You're really saying that Blame LOST votes by winning the Classic. Z beat him what, but 20 something votes? You're saying these two horses were neck and neck in the HOY running BEFORE the Classic. Is that what you're saying, or am i just not getting what you're dishing?

[Dahoss9698]

No, i posted earlier that i think Blame should have won. I think he deserved to win. The award didn't really matter to me one way or another, but im happy Zenyatta won it. I would have said congrats. I think the main reason people bash Blames credentials is to defend Zenyatta from her bashing.

Is it me?

[Stillriledup]

It's so true. I'd rather leave my child alone with Charles Manson rather than some of the Zenyatta detractors :lol: . Why is everyone so crazed about this? If Blame won the award there wouldn't be 1 Zenyatta fan bashing Blames credentials. There wouldn't be 1 bad thing to say on the "Blame wins HOY thread". All the Zenyatta fans would be posting Congratulations. Including me.

There's a lot of angry little men who hate the idea that a horse that's not eastern based can be so good and so loved. You Stay Classy Blame Fans! :lol:

[Relwob Owner]

It's so true. I'd rather leave my child alone with Charles Manson rather than some of the Zenyatta detractors :lol: . Why is everyone so crazed about this? If Blame won the award there wouldn't be 1 Zenyatta fan bashing Blames credentials. There wouldn't be 1 bad thing to say on the "Blame wins HOY thread". All the Zenyatta fans would be posting Congratulations. Including me.


There are countless pro Z posts bashing Blame's credentials beforehand and you genuinely think those posters would suddenly stop doing that after they lost? Doubt it.

[Dahoss9698]

There's a lot of angry little men who hate the idea that a horse that's not eastern based can be so good and so loved. You Stay Classy Blame Fans! :lol:

I have to give you credit. I've seen a lot of trolls, but you always manage to stick out. You're at the top of your craft and while it's not something that's admirable, being the best at something, whatever it is, should be recognized.

Well done. :ThmbUp:

[Zippy Chippy]

There are countless pro Z posts bashing Blame's credentials beforehand and you genuinely think those posters would suddenly stop doing that after they lost? Doubt it.

I love both horses, but i see Blame fans as bullys. If someone is going to bash your horse over and over, of course you need to comeback and say bad things about Blame. You aren't just going to sit there and take it. I dont know where this all began, but I'd say its going off at 1/9 it started w/ the Z detractors.

I still will never ever understand why everyone didn't embrace Zenyatta since you'll never see something like this again. Guess you all missed out. Maybe you'll have another chance in 2040 or so.

[Stillriledup]

I love both horses, but i see Blame fans as bullys. If someone is going to bash your horse over and over, of course you need to comeback and say bad things about Blame. You aren't just going to sit there and take it. I dont know where this all began, but I'd say its going off at 1/9 it started w/ the Z detractors.

I still will never ever understand why everyone didn't embrace Zenyatta since you'll never see something like this again. Guess you all missed out. Maybe you'll have another chance in 2040 or so.

This is completely true, a horse who won 19 in row and plenty of them in Grade 1 events, should be honored and respected. Not only is Z not honored, but she's being trashed like she's a cheap claimer who got 'lucky' to win 19 in row because she faced other cheap claimers in all 19 races. She must have faced cheap claimers in 3 Breeders Cup races, winning 2 of them and losing the other by a head. Very few horses win multiple BC events let alone race in them 3 years in a row. I think that Z's detractors actually secretly realize she's a phenominal talent, but they hate the idea that people view her as something more than another racehorse that can be rated for gambling purposes.

[Charlie D]

You're mostly right, but the one thing you didnt factor is that Blame didn't overcome her LEAD. He head her in the race, but she was so far ahead going into the race, he needed to do something more spectacular than she did. I don't think anyone thinks that Blame and Z were 'head to head' in the running for HOY BEFORE the BCC, everyone knew Blame had to actually WIN to have a chance. That means, going INTO the BCC, he had to make up a lot of ground on Z in the 'polls' for lack of a better word.

There wasn't anyone in racing who was saying on Nov 5th that Blame and Z were basically tied in the voting and whoever did better in the Classic would get HOY.

What this implies is everyone considered the restricted F&M performances of 2010 superior to Blame's Donald Schaeffer, Stephen Foster, Whitney and JCGC performances and that, i think is incorrect, as a search of this board, other boards , handicapping articles prior to the BCC show.


The connections of Z have been saying she deserved the award in the media on numerous occasions and a large portion of media have, like lemmings followed this over the cliff.

Best horse in 2010 has been denied by asses who could tell the difference between Sea The Stars and Twice Over

[keithw84]

What this implies is everyone considered the restricted F&M performances of 2010 superior to Blame's Donald Schaeffer, Stephen Foster, Whitney and JCGC performances and that, i think is incorrect, as a search of this board, other boards , handicapping articles prior to the BCC show.


The connections of Z has been saying she deserved the award in the media on numerous occasions and a large portion of media have like lemmings followed this over the cliff.

Best horse in 2010 denied by asses.

I think few considered the restricted performances better; I think many didn't care and said things like "A G1 is a G1."

[Charlie D]

I think few considered the restricted performances better; I think many didn't care and said things like "A G1 is a G1."


Well, those "few" probably need to go to handicapping school.

[Fat Syd]

There's a lot of angry little men who hate the idea that a horse that's not eastern based can be so good and so loved. You Stay Classy Blame Fans! :lol:

A true fan of the sport cares not for the track a horse resides at. Lots of east coast fans loved Sunday Silience even if they thought Easy Goer was better. Most east coast fans love Zenyatta even if they thought Blame desired HoY.

[Charlie D]

Best horse in 2010 has been denied by asses who could tell the difference between Sea The Stars and Twice Over



That should read, could not tell the difference btw ;)

[Relwob Owner]

I love both horses, but i see Blame fans as bullys. If someone is going to bash your horse over and over, of course you need to comeback and say bad things about Blame. You aren't just going to sit there and take it. I dont know where this all began, but I'd say its going off at 1/9 it started w/ the Z detractors.

I still will never ever understand why everyone didn't embrace Zenyatta since you'll never see something like this again. Guess you all missed out. Maybe you'll have another chance in 2040 or so.


Well, I dont think many who thought Blame should get HOY were even really big fans of Blame. They were more fans of the idea that the award should be based on what happened on the track in 2010.

As far as missing anything, I dont think any of the "Anti-Zenyatta" folks missed much at all. Like me, they saw a terrific mare who was very, very good and deserves to be mentioned with the top mares in history. They also saw a horse whose connections were so married to a streak that they didnt truly test the horse as much as they could have. By doing so, they kept us from seeing many races that had her in them that could have been much more exciting. In a fair, unemotional world, avoiding boys for the most part should have bitten them in the ass like it did in 2009 but she ended up winning this year.

Good for her, bad for racing IMO because they just set a strange precedent(the award taking into account a horse's effect on racing and including several years in consideration) and diluted what should be racing's top honor.

[Stillriledup]

What this implies is everyone considered the restricted F&M performances of 2010 superior to Blame's Donald Schaeffer, Stephen Foster, Whitney and JCGC performances and that, i think is incorrect, as a search of this board, other boards , handicapping articles prior to the BCC show.


The connections of Z have been saying she deserved the award in the media on numerous occasions and a large portion of media have, like lemmings followed this over the cliff.

Best horse in 2010 has been denied by asses who could tell the difference between Sea The Stars and Twice Over

She's an all time great horse, she's going to the HOF, she's won 19 in a row at major racetracks and nobody has come close to that, she's won two Breeders Cups and ran a strong 2nd in a third BC try and you're acting like she's just some horse who has a cute back story and only won because she's popular.

[Charlie D]

She's an all time great horse, she's going to the HOF, she's won 19 in a row at major racetracks and nobody has come close to that, she's won two Breeders Cups and ran a strong 2nd in a third BC try and you're acting like she's just some horse who has a cute back story and only won because she's popular.


She is just an average Grade 1 ability horse as her Past Performances show and if you or anyone can show me diferent please be my guest.

[Stillriledup]

She is just an average Grade 1 ability horse as her Past Performances show and If you can show me diferent please do.

Average horses dont win 19 races in a row at major racetracks. She's the only one who's ever done it. If she's average, than how come horses who are better than her have never done it?

[thaskalos]

She is just an average Grade 1 ability horse as her Past Performances show and If you can show me diferent please do.If what you say is really true Charlie...then we should be seeing horses like Zenyatta every year.

Why don't we?

[Charlie D]

Average horses dont win 19 races in a row at major racetracks. She's the only one who's ever done it. If she's average, than how come horses who are better than her have never done it?


Oh please, this has been done to death already. Not one of those performaces or all combined tell you she is better than average G1 ability horse.

[Charlie D]

If what you say is really true Charlie...then we should be seeing horses like Zenyatta every year.

Why don't we?




Competiton faced has a lot to do with winning as you know and last few years the Female division has sucked, The male division has not been much better either, which then means a horse can dominate.

No Sea The Stars, no Rachel, no Curlin, no Rags to Riches etc ability horse in either of the races Z won at BC was there??

Not rocket science guys.

[Cratos]

The votes are counted and the winner is named; it is 2011 and it is time to move on because whining, sarcasm, etc. will not change the decision

[thaskalos]

Competiton faced has a lot to do with winning as you know and last few years the Female division has sucked, Te male division has not neen much better either, which then means a horse can dominate.

Not rocket science guys.Ok...I will agree with you.

And, since the Male and Female divisions will probably suck again this year...I will be eagerly anticipating the arrival of another Zenyatta sometime soon...:rolleyes:

[Valuist]

I dont. The Zenyatta fans seem to be a little more rational IMO

Rational and "Zenyatta fans" should never be used in the same sentence.

Face it; they made the award a lifetime achievement award and a popularity contest. That is NOT what it is supposed to be. It is supposed to be about the best performer in the calendar year 2010. You'd think Zenyatta won the Classic going away by 5 lengths based on her support for HoY. Just remember: that never happened.

[Charlie D]

The votes are counted and the winner is named; it is 2011 and it is time to move on because whining, sarcasm, etc. will not change the decision


Just pointing out the facts Cratos as i' think i've done all along, Along with a few others.

[glengarry]

Why all the anger and bitterness from the Blame fans? This was a vote without any stated criteria. The DRF did a piece a month ago comparing the MVP/POY criteria of various sports to the HOY award. As I recall, unlike certain awards in other sports, there are no criteria for HOY. Therefore, is it so unreasonable to factor in how Zenyatta garnered more positive non racing media attention than any horse since Secretariat? That her popularity and fame was based primarily on her accomplishments on the racetrack? Is it so difficult to understand that a horse who, at age 6, won 5 grade 1's, while making up a lot of ground in paceless races, and barely missed catching Blame when very close to age seven, accomplished something extraordinary?

I am surprised that such a group of experts, and I'm not being facetious, undervalue the sheer difficulty of winning those 5 grade 1's at her age, and coming so close to going 6 for 6, over a number of very different surfaces? Over her career, the accomplishment, even considering careful handling, is phenomenal. Blame is very good, but a loose on the lead Haynesfield, who no one would describe as great or even gritty, made Blame look like a plodding bum. He is far from it, but that's all it takes for a streak to end, and he was at his prime at age 4.

As for Blame's victory over Zenyatta by a head, he got what he deserved, the Breeders Cup Classic Trophy. If Blame was half as good as many think, and/or Zenyatta half as bad, he should have won by open lengths. At that point, he wins an easy HOY vote. His tiny margin left the door open for enough voters to go the other way without second thoughts. I am happy for the connections, who gave the fans un-paralleled access to Zenyatta, and remained classy and accessible under intense pressure throughout the year.

Ultimately, the only injustice would be if the voters violated the rules (there were none), or if a clearly superior horse was jobbed. Blame and Zenyatta were nearly inseparable after a grueling 1 1/4 miles. They were of similar ability on a Churchill surface that Blame had previously excelled on, and Zenyatta, to my recollection, never even worked over. Zenyatta got the votes. Live with it. Meanwhile, everyone crying the blues will be buying their forms tomorrow or this weekend. As will the rest of us.

[Charlie D]

Ok...I will agree with you.

And, since the Male and Female divisions will probably suck again this year...I will be eagerly anticipating the arrival of another Zenyatta sometime soon...:rolleyes:


Tell me Thaskalos how many Blame, QR or Haynesfield ability horses did she face in those restricted F&M races??

[dylbert]

In nearly 40 years of following horse racing, last night's HOY selection was one of my biggest disappointments. I finally posted some derogatory remarks about Zenyatta last night. Previously, I had confidence that Blame's body of work would garner him victory. However, Zenyatta's popularity carried her to Eclipse podium.

It is sad day in racing when those charged with making difficult decisions, such as Eclispse Award winners, pander to public sentiment. The baseball writers are showing true grit by policing the steriod abusers from tainted era. What happened to horse racing voters?

Zenyatta will join Hall of Fame which is her rightful and earned honor. However, I will never recognize her as 2010 HOY. Some have suggested that fans vote on these awards just as fans in other sports vote for all-stars. In Major League Baseball, All-Stars play in an exhibition game. Post-season and HOF selections are made by baseball writers.

Tsk, tsk...

[PaceAdvantage]

Or maybe the loss to Haynesfield had something to do with out. Oh, let me see Pace maybe Rachel should have won for her two stirring victories this year!The more folks like you write about it, the more embarrassing it becomes. I mean listen to yourself....

I need to go back and listen to Jerry Moss talk about Zenyatta during his acceptance speech....it was all talk about years prior I would have to assume....I mean, what the hell could he say about 2010???? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Not so fast.......... :eek:

"PaceAdvantage.com Official 2010 Horse of the Year Thread"

The official winner has not yet been announced here.

Could be years before voting closes......................... :lol:Paying attention obviously isn't your strong suit