Judges @ Woodbine Blowing Interference Calls

[GregReinhart]

In the past week the judges at Woodbine have been giving the stewards in California a run for the money with puzzling decisions regarding interference.

The first incident happened last Thursday night in the first race

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You can see on the far turn where the eventual winner slips or something on the far turn, and bothers the six (you can see in the video where the 6 horse's mouth is wide open from the driver pulling back to avoid running over the first-over horse), causing the six to check and lose momentum. The result was no placing after a brief inquiry.

The second incident happened Monday night in the second race.

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Here the leader makes a break mid-way through the far turn and appears to bother several horses, and may have been inside pylons. The judges again, elected not to place the horse, for whatever reason.

The final incident occurred in tonight's 7th race

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Here Troxel Hanover is on the lead from post ten, and the pace then backs down in the 2nd quarter like it does in almost every race at Woodbine. However on this night the judges decide that Troxel Hanover caused confusion to trailing horses nearing the half. This did not effect the wagering public as the mare finished 4th and there was no superfecta wagering, but she did get placed last, costing her connections part of the purse.

Now, that this is the one violation that garners a placing is amazing enough, but as noted, there are many races a night where the pace is backed down like it was in this 7th race and there is nothing done about it, and in this case, the driver was trying to get his mare to drive on before the half, but she was going all the she could go at that time. Furthermore, how is the leader in any way responsible for those in behind not electing to move to the outside and go around if they are not satisfied with the pace? Every driver has two lines, a left one and a right one.

I could accept the causing confusion and placing if either of the first two incidents had resulted in placings, but the fact that the judges decided the two more egregious violations, especially the 2nd one, did not warrant any type of disqualification, but this one did, is not acceptable.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

1st one.....100% no change

2nd one.....100% should have been dq'ed

3rd one.....30% dq 70% no change but could change depending on what Luc had to say

[Zman179]

I saw all three videos and I agree with the judges decision on all three of them.

[botster]

The first one I could see them keeping it as finished.

The second one should have been a dq, that was ridiculous.The only reason they kept it up is, because the #9 horse in the pocket was completely crippled finishing.Still that is a clear cut interference call and needs to be called.

The third one was a situation were the horse just got real lazy on the lead and didn't want to go on.It wasn't the drivers fault and was also a bullshit call for the most part.I would go 70-30 in favor of leaving this one alone.It's a ten claimer for godsake.These are low level ability horses with all kinds of flaws.This one slowed down by itself and Luc couldn't wake it up.If Luc was alloed to use his one hand slashing that slug would have woke up like the rising sun!!!

[The Bit]

I saw all three videos and I agree with the judges decision on all three of them.

You agree with a horse making a break infront of the field, going inside the pylons, reentering the race track and forcing horses 3 wide? You are joking me right?

[The Bit]

1st Episode:

First over horse puts a step in or something, but certainly affects the momentum of the 6 horse. The 6 horse being bothered allows the horse 3rd on the pylons to get out. If that isn't interference affecting the outcome of a race, what is? Does it deserve a placing? I don't know. It is a tough call, but by definition it does.

2nd Episode:

It is a joke. And anyone who thinks this horse should have stayed up either owns, trains or was driving the culprit. He breaks, affects the field, goes inside pylons and than comes back on the track forcing a horse wide. JOKE.

3rd Episode:

Happens 8 times on a 10 race card every night at every harness track between the pacific and the atlantic. I see the Meadows ( a lot ) and Dover ( sometimes ) fines drivers for this, but hardly ever do you see a placing. I can only recall one other one and that was at Dover. Shouldn't have been one here.

[The Bit]

This one slowed down by itself and Luc couldn't wake it up.If Luc was alloed to use his one hand slashing that slug would have woke up like the rising sun!!!

So the distance change at Yonkers is good for the horses. But Luc should be allowed to "slash" that "slug". The distance change is also good for attracting fans but a driver should "slash" these "slugs", which is something casual fans don't want to see?

Brilliant!

[DeanT]

Where'd this thread come from.

I hated that 1st one. Horse gapped out and lost her air. You could see LO go to the stick after she lost all momentum, 100% due to Roger's horse's bobble. That is one sour mare that one.

The last one is weird. Lazy horses on the front are usually picked up by other drivers as a non-event. This time they all sat in the second quarter. Very weird.

[harness2008]

1st race - Agree with judges, simply lost momentum on the turn and regained it quickly. The horse directly behind on the outside was no doubt affected but not to the extent of a DQ.

2nd race - Agree with judges again, the driver attempted to move inside the pylons immediately after the break which is what he is supposed to do. What's the issue with moving inside the pylons? He is not supposed to stay in the 1 path on a breaking horse. That is what the inside of the pylons are for since he could not move the horse outside because he was blocked. If he stays outside the pylons the horse is essentially gaining or staying even with the other horses which is a violation of the breaking rule. The break was brief which allowed him to re-enter only because the horse was still clearly ahead of the horse directly behind him. It looked like he was about half in and half out. If he was lapped on, then I can see that a re-entry should have caused a DQ. Did it affect the horse behind him, absolutely since the driver behind the breaking horse probably didn't expect that quick recovery from the breaking horse. However IMHO not enough to take his number down.

3rd race - Mixed bag on this one since I've seen a pace backed down many times without incident. An obviously tepid 2nd quarter which caused a crush of horses to make premature moves. When was the last time you saw the entire outer flow on the engine like that? I probably agree with the DQ. I guess if there was no outer flow movement during this quarter, then maybe Luc could have gotten away with one.

[The Bit]

I'm shocked that people are ok with the 2nd one.

[botster]

So the distance change at Yonkers is good for the horses. But Luc should be allowed to "slash" that "slug". The distance change is also good for attracting fans but a driver should "slash" these "slugs", which is something casual fans don't want to see?

Brilliant!

I wasn't condoning the whipping in the least Bit, just using some humor. "If Luc were able.....".Read it again under that light and you will see it differently.

He was able to hit one pretty hard in his day.

[harness2008]

Bit, just so you know I don't agree a full 100% on that middle race but I side with not seeing any blatant interference. I believe the driver abided by the breaking rule in the heat of the moment, which is all that he could have done at that time. However, I also do believe that different judges may or may not have seen this differently. Tough call.

[The Bit]

alone.It's a ten claimer for godsake.These are low level ability horses with all kinds of flaws.This one slowed down by itself and Luc couldn't wake it up.If Luc was alloed to use his one hand slashing that slug would have woke up like the rising sun!!!

A low level ability slug that has all kinds of flaws that just needed a slashing to wake up? The humor escapes me I guess.

[The Bit]

Bit, just so you know I don't agree a full 100% on that middle race but I side with not seeing any blatant interference. I believe the driver abided by the breaking rule in the heat of the moment, which is all that he could have done at that time. However, I also do believe that different judges may or may not have seen this differently. Tough call.

Obviously all of these calls are subject to each individuals assessment. I don't know what more Huron could have done with the horse. But we see horses get placed all the time for going inside a pylon, or scattering the field.

Look at incident #3 and compare it to #2, to me #2 is the far more severe and intrusive incident.

[botster]

:confused: A low level ability slug that has all kinds of flaws that just needed a slashing to wake up? The humor escapes me I guess.

You need to have a sense of humor to get it?? At least read it the way I am explaining it to you.Can you still not comprehend it the way I intended??

The ruling does not allow Luc to one hand slash the horse...BUT, IF HE WERE ALLOWED TO DO SO THE HORSE WOULD HAVE WOKE UP LIKE THE RISING SUN!

Now where does it state that I condoned the horse to be slashed??

[The Bit]

You need to have a sense of humor to get it?? At least read it the way I am explaining it to you.Can you still not comprehend it the way I intended?

Nope!

It is easy to add humor after the fact. Just slash the slug!

[harness2008]

Obviously all of these calls are subject to each individuals assessment. I don't know what more Huron could have done with the horse. But we see horses get placed all the time for going inside a pylon, or scattering the field.

Look at incident #3 and compare it to #2, to me #2 is the far more severe and intrusive incident.

There are two scenarios when horses go inside the pylons. One warrants a DQ, another does not. If the horse is at racing speed with the other horses and is not on a break, a horse is not allowed to cut the corner and go inside the pylons because the horse is indeed obtaining an edge on the other horses by cutting the corner so to speak. This should be a DQ.

However, a breaking horse on the rail when blocked to the outside has to be brought back on stride to the inside of the pylons and in addition lose ground in relation to the other horses in the field. Thats the difference between the two.

He indeed lost some ground because the horse behind him inched closer while moving to the inside of the pylons, but the driver quickly got him back on stride which allowed him re-entry as long as he was not lapped on by the horse behind him. This should not be a DQ.

A judgement call indeed which would inevitably have different results with different judges.

[Stillriledup]

Puzzling decisions.

That's woodbine for you.

You can always count on these guys to do the wrong thing.