SLOTS FAIL IN ILLINOIS

[pandy]

For some reason this didn't get the press it warrants. Illinois put in a huge tax increase but was supposed to pass a slots/casino bill for the racetracks on the same day and didn't.

http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=40754&z=63

[Robert Goren]

People are finally waking up to the idea that slots at race tracks is just plain a bad idea.

[illinoisbred]

A strange story of which all the facts from behind the scene have yet been disclosed. There was a "promise" given that it would be brought up for a vote tuesday evening. It never was,and by best estimates it would have passed with 4-6 votes to spare.

[rastajenk]

People are finally waking up to the idea that slots at race tracks is just plain a bad idea.I seriously doubt that that had anything to do with it. Remember, this is Illinois politics we're talking about. The merits of a policy is about the last thing that is considered.

[illinoisbred]

I seriously doubt that that had anything to do with it. Remember, this is Illinois politics we're talking about. The merits of a policy is about the last thing that is considered.
I have a feeling you are sooo right!

[Robert Goren]

I seriously doubt that that had anything to do with it. Remember, this is Illinois politics we're talking about. The merits of a policy is about the last thing that is considered.You are probably right. Sometimes the right thing gets done even if it is for the wrong reasons.

[pandy]

I always get a kick out of politicians when they vote in these sharp tax increases. In this report they say that the tax increases project to raise state revenues by 6.8 billion dollars. These "projections" never work. The average person in Illinois that is now paying $1,000 in income tax will have to pay an additional $666 a year! And, they also raised corporate taxes. People will spend less money, corporations will cut back on hiring and spending, businesses will leave the state, and people will leave the state. People nearing retirement age who are sick of the cold Chi-town winters will leave sooner than expected. Bottom line, the state will not get 6.8 bil out of these increases. Politicians never learn! They've raised taxes in NY and NJ for years and all it did was drive wealth from the state.

[illinoisbred]

Absolutely agree,Pandy! The Governor of Wisconsin said yesterday they will begin aggressively courting Illinois businesses to relocate in his state. He plans on using the tourism slogan-"Escape to Wisconsin" in this endeavor. Perhaps offering up to 2 years in corporate tax relief to any making the move.

[Robert Goren]

Well they got one thing right and one thing wrong(maybe). Thats a way better batting average than the most state legislatures.

[Striker]

Hit the nail on the head IB. SE Wisconsin is loving every minute of this. They have soooo much land open there it is ridiculous. Lake County(Northern Illinois) is losing business after business even before this tax hike went into effect. One of the biggest corporations in Lake County built their new corp headquarters in Pleasant Prairie, Wis within the last year or two--Uline. Their president said it was because of what Wisconsin had to offer as far as taxes and other benefits for their business in comparison to Illinois. As I said in the off-topic thread, I live 20 minutes south of the Wisky border and do all my grocery shopping(no food tax) and buy all gas in Wisconsin. I would anticipate more and more people will start to do this also if not already.

[illinoisbred]

I'm approx. 15-20 miles south of the border and plan on checking this out Striker. The closest Wi town of any size to me is Lake Geneva-a tourist trap,and pretty much Chicago prices.

[Striker]

Other gaming bills are in the works and will be presented during the next session. Lots of rumors about who was the person behind this. Most rumors point to Lou Lang who at the beginning of this bill was for the tracks and slots and put in some side items for existing casinos. But then he has said that the governor had told him that he would veto the bill, so Lang told Speaker Madigan not to call it. Well it looks like Madigan and the Governor both said this was not the case and that Lang was the one who said not to call it.

[Vinman]

I heard this on WCBS 880 this morning.....Which state is number one in the US for people leaving it to move to other states? It's not Illinois.

Drum roll please......New Jersey, home of the highest property taxes in the US, whose Casinos have lost 1/3 of their business since December 2006 and who's governor refuses to put in a Casino at the Meadowlands Racetrack 10 minutes from midtown manhattan and let the Aycee casinos share in the profits.

Vinman

[thaskalos]

For some reason this didn't get the press it warrants. Illinois put in a huge tax increase but was supposed to pass a slots/casino bill for the racetracks on the same day and didn't.

http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=40754&z=63
Illinois horse racing leaders claiming that "nobody knows what happened"...EVERYBODY knows what happened!

The state was able to secure an additional $7 billion by fleecing their residents...who needs the racetracks and their lousy extra billion? :)

[BIG49010]

I wonder if big Dick at AP will close up for a couple years, or until they give him what he wants. It boggles my mind, what do these guys do with the money anyway.
I remember give us intertrack wagering well be fine!
I remember give us OTB's and we'll be fine!
I remember give us Full Card Simulcasting we'll be fine!

Now Slots!

What's next sluts!

Anybody ever heard of going out of business, if you can't make a profit!

Please close Mr. Carey and Mr. D.

[toussaud]

I wonder if big Dick at AP will close up for a couple years, or until they give him what he wants. It boggles my mind, what do these guys do with the money anyway.
I remember give us intertrack wagering well be fine!
I remember give us OTB's and we'll be fine!
I remember give us Full Card Simulcasting we'll be fine!

Now Slots!

What's next sluts!

Anybody ever heard of going out of business, if you can't make a profit!

Please close Mr. Carey and Mr. D.
One can dream :lol:

[mostpost]

Absolutely agree,Pandy! The Governor of Wisconsin said yesterday they will begin aggressively courting Illinois businesses to relocate in his state. He plans on using the tourism slogan-"Escape to Wisconsin" in this endeavor. Perhaps offering up to 2 years in corporate tax relief to any making the move.
Wisconsin is great! The best system of bike trails and roadways in the country; all very well marked. Thousands of lakes to fish in or boat on or swim in. And all within a days drive of northern Illinois. What it is not so great as is a place to move your business.
Some how you seem to have the idea that taxes are lower in Wisconsin.
Tax rates in Wisconsin:
4.6% > $0
6.15% > $10,220
6.5% > $20,440
6.75% > $153,280
7.75% > $225,000
total deductions and exemptions $10140 rates are for a single person

So even after the Illinois increase, if you move to Wisconsin your rate will be higher than in Illinois as soon as you make more than $10,220. Also in four years (2015) the Illinois rate reverts to 4% and in 2025 it reverts to 3.5%. There is no provision for a decrease in the rate in Wisconsin.
One other thing. The Illinois tax increase law has a provision mandating that spending not increase more than 2% in any year. If it does the tax rate goes back to 3%.

The Governor of Wisconsin thinks he will lure Illinois businesses because of the lower Wisconsin corporate tax rate. The corporate tax rate in Wisconsin is only 7.9%, whereas in Illinois after the new law goes into effect the rate will be all the way up to 7%. Wait a minute!!!! I believe 7% is lower than 7.9%
:eek: Do we have any mathematicians on the board who can confirm this? :confused:

Of course Governor whateverhisnameis is going to offer a two year tax holiday. The trouble with a two year tax holiday is that in two years it is over and you are back to paying the same old high rates. In the meantime you have spent who knows how much money moving your business, hiring new people and paying higher transportation costs to ship your product back to Illinois where a lot of your customers still are.

[illinoisbred]

Wisconsin is great! The best system of bike trails and roadways in the country; all very well marked. Thousands of lakes to fish in or boat on or swim in. And all within a days drive of northern Illinois. What it is not so great as is a place to move your business.
Some how you seem to have the idea that taxes are lower in Wisconsin.
Tax rates in Wisconsin:
4.6% > $0
6.15% > $10,220
6.5% > $20,440
6.75% > $153,280
7.75% > $225,000
total deductions and exemptions $10140 rates are for a single person

So even after the Illinois increase, if you move to Wisconsin your rate will be higher than in Illinois as soon as you make more than $10,220. Also in four years (2015) the Illinois rate reverts to 4% and in 2025 it reverts to 3.5%. There is no provision for a decrease in the rate in Wisconsin.
One other thing. The Illinois tax increase law has a provision mandating that spending not increase more than 2% in any year. If it does the tax rate goes back to 3%.

The Governor of Wisconsin thinks he will lure Illinois businesses because of the lower Wisconsin corporate tax rate. The corporate tax rate in Wisconsin is only 7.9%, whereas in Illinois after the new law goes into effect the rate will be all the way up to 7%. Wait a minute!!!! I believe 7% is lower than 7.9%
:eek: Do we have any mathematicians on the board who can confirm this? :confused:

Of course Governor whateverhisnameis is going to offer a two year tax holiday. The trouble with a two year tax holiday is that in two years it is over and you are back to paying the same old high rates. In the meantime you have spent who knows how much money moving your business, hiring new people and paying higher transportation costs to ship your product back to Illinois where a lot of your customers still are.
No argument here.I know tax rates are higher in Wisconsin,which does make it difficult to understand the logic at play here. I also know many businesses have already made the move there,and generally the current workforce follows. The drive is no deterrent-often easier and quicker. I'm in the heart of McHenry Co. but I can get to Elkhorn ,Wi. most days faster than I can to Schaumburg.

Personally, our business has to move due to the sale of the building we occupy. 80% of our work is in Chicago and the suburban area. A move to So. Wi. is being considered.

[BlueShoe]

It would seem that slots are coming to Illinois tracks after all. The bill authorizing their approval awaits the governors signature. Lots of links at this site with arguments both pro and con on this controversial issue.
http://www.barntowire.com/Legis.html

[delayjf]

You are probably right. Sometimes the right thing gets done even if it is for the wrong reasons.

Robert,

I'm not a big fan of the casino explosion in the past 20 years, but if slots would have save Ak-SAR-BEN - I would have been all in.

[cj]

It would seem that slots are coming to Illinois tracks after all. The bill authorizing their approval awaits the governors signature. Lots of links at this site with arguments both pro and con on this controversial issue.
http://www.barntowire.com/Legis.html

Thrilling news...more ruined racetracks.

[thaskalos]

Illinois is so hard-up for money...that this new bill - which is awaiting the Governor's signature - is asking for slots to be placed at O'hare and Midway airports.

[BIG49010]

At what point do slots reach saturation point?

They say Vegas is the next Detroit! Scarry thought!

Illinois gambling revenue is off by 30% last year, seems like a good time to add 5 casinos, plus slots at airports and race tracks!

I'm glad I left Chicago in 2002, I would think it is only going to get worse !

[Robert Goren]

Robert,

I'm not a big fan of the casino explosion in the past 20 years, but if slots would have save Ak-SAR-BEN - I would have been all in. At the time I favored slots at Aksarben, but after see what it has done to racetracks in other states I have my doubts. With Casinos within 8 miles of the old Aksarben race track across the river in Iowa that don't have deal with putting on a race meet, I doubt it would have worked anyway. For the record I am for casino gambling everywhere, but I am not in favor of forcing them to run a run a race track on the side. I don't see why race tracks are more deserving than anybody else of slot revenues.

[thaskalos]

I don't see why race tracks are more deserving than anybody else of slot revenues.
Especially since they are already receiving kickbacks from casinos in the general area...

[delayjf]

At the time I favored slots at Aksarben, but after see what it has done to racetracks in other states I have my doubts. With Casinos within 8 miles of the old Aksarben race track across the river in Iowa that don't have deal with putting on a race meet, I doubt it would have worked anyway. For the record I am for casino gambling everywhere, but I am not in favor of forcing them to run a run a race track on the side. I don't see why race tracks are more deserving than anybody else of slot revenues.

I agree it would not have solved all of Ak problems, but it certainly brought Canterbury back from the abyss.

I don't blame NE for voting against casinos a few years back - why make Harrah’s rich. What I would have liked to have seen was let the state run the casinos and therefore reap the lions share of the profit. Let the Knights of AK (non-profit run casino operations), in return AK get a cut to maintain purses, which would allow them to compete. AK officials were late to the game to realize simulcasting was the future. They didn't understand that the days of big on track handle were over and they needed to get their signal out for national consumption. They also needed a turf track.

[Robert Goren]

I got an email from Hawthorne yesterday urging me to contacted the IL governor. What found interesting was that it stated that it would help horse owners by raising purses and it would help the patrons but did not say how. If I was a handicapper in IL , I would want to know exactly what they were going to do for me before I got involved. I would not settle for some vague promises about higher purses might bring fuller fields.

[Striker]

I got an email from Hawthorne yesterday urging me to contacted the IL governor. What found interesting was that it stated that it would help horse owners by raising purses and it would help the patrons but did not say how. If I was a handicapper in IL , I would want to know exactly what they were going to do for me before I got involved. I would not settle for some vague promises about higher purses might bring fuller fields.
Since I'm a handicapper in Illinois I will answer that question for you--NOTHING. Go to the Arlington website and right there front and center it says please contact Gov. Quinn to "save" horse racing in Illinois.

[jelly]

I got an email from Hawthorne yesterday urging me to contacted the IL governor. What found interesting was that it stated that it would help horse owners by raising purses and it would help the patrons but did not say how. If I was a handicapper in IL , I would want to know exactly what they were going to do for me before I got involved. I would not settle for some vague promises about higher purses might bring fuller fields.



You should email them and ask them what the horseplayer/gambler will get from slots?

[thespaah]

I always get a kick out of politicians when they vote in these sharp tax increases. In this report they say that the tax increases project to raise state revenues by 6.8 billion dollars. These "projections" never work. The average person in Illinois that is now paying $1,000 in income tax will have to pay an additional $666 a year! And, they also raised corporate taxes. People will spend less money, corporations will cut back on hiring and spending, businesses will leave the state, and people will leave the state. People nearing retirement age who are sick of the cold Chi-town winters will leave sooner than expected. Bottom line, the state will not get 6.8 bil out of these increases. Politicians never learn! They've raised taxes in NY and NJ for years and all it did was drive wealth from the state.
100% correct. Two examples New York. For 16 years Gov Mario Cuomo increased taxes on business and just about everything else in sight. His focus was always on his downstate constituency. His theory..."This is New York. If you're (business) isn't here, it's nowhere.".....Companies flew the state in droves. Western New York was hit the hardest.
In New Jersey over the last 10 years an estimated $70 billion in wealth has left the state due to high taxes.

[pandy]

100% correct. Two examples New York. For 16 years Gov Mario Cuomo increased taxes on business and just about everything else in sight. His focus was always on his downstate constituency. His theory..."This is New York. If you're (business) isn't here, it's nowhere.".....Companies flew the state in droves. Western New York was hit the hardest.
In New Jersey over the last 10 years an estimated $70 billion in wealth has left the state due to high taxes.

Couldn't agree more, Mario Cuomo was one of the worst governors in this nation's history.