How Do Sports Bettors/Poker Players View Horse Racing?

[DeanT]

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2011/01/how-do-sports-bettors-poker-players.html

Those of us who check online gambling boards usually get flamed for mentioning we bet the races for various reasons. But a lot of people never really know why (outside that betting community).

One dude asked a simple question to the folks we'd like to have in our pools, betting our game.

Why don't you bet on horse racing?

Feel free to be as brief or as long as you like and as candid as you want.

Thank you in advance for your time and answers.

Answers via the piece.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2011/01/how-do-sports-bettors-poker-players.html

[andymays]

Here are a few guys that love to shoot craps.

YouTube - Marlon Brando- Luck Be A Lady

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlQXvrWC_A&feature=related

YouTube - Guys and Dolls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCSl7rw4ERI

YouTube - Nicely Nicely Rocking the Boat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o

[Grits]

Dean, not to take this off-topic, still, its worth noting, I hope.

Last night, on 60 Minutes, I watched the worst indictment on slots I've ever viewed. The governor of Pennsylvania, truly, had no leg to stand on. He came completely unglued, and made a fool of himself, when Leslie Stahl pushed him. The number of casinos that have been built and opened in Pa. in recent years, unheard of.

Horseracing was noted, in that slots are "quick", chances for the gambler, they're taken every three seconds, whereas in horseracing one has to wait on the horses.

Those interviewed spoke of the "zone", themselves and their machine. How far it all reaches into the controlling of oneself--leading individuals to lose everything they have, and too, embezzling what they don't have to fuel their addiction.

Slot appear not a bit different from crack cocaine.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7228424n

Slots have always been garbage, they'll remain garbage and they have no place on racetracks.

[DeanT]

Slots have always been garbage, they'll remain garbage and they have no place on racetracks.

I saw it.

Slots might be garbage, but so many horse owners and everyone else depend on them for a livelihood. I wonder how many tracks would be running without them.

I dont know slots (thankfully) but people seem to like them. I have no idea why.

The answers on the blog are from serious poker players and sports bettors though, not slots players.

I wonder if someone asked slots players why they dont play racing. I think we can probably guess the answer : I like pulling a lever and sitting there waiting to see if I won, every three seconds.

Clearly not our potential market, whereas sports bettors and poker players, which takes a lot of skill, are.

[cj]

Slots might be garbage, but so many horse owners and everyone else depend on them for a livelihood. I wonder how many tracks would be running without them.


The ones that don't need them...the best ones.

[Charlie D]

The ones that don't need them...the best ones.

Don't worry CJ, eventually they will see giving money away to people is bad business and the track will be dug up and replaced with a nice new buildings full of slot machines.

[cj]

Don't worry CJ, eventually they will see giving money away to people is bad business and the track will be dug up and replaced with a nice new buildings full of slot machines.

I hope so. Maybe then we won't have 5 and 6 horse fields everywhere.

[Charlie D]

I hope so. Maybe then we won't have 5 and 6 horse fields everywhere.


I'm sure like others do, you could take advantage of this scenario if you wished to.


We used have a thing called the National Coal Board, but gov got fed up of subsidising it. Result, loads of mines closed and the land they were on are now shopping centers, Offices, warehouses etc

My brothers and friends are quite happy in their new careers btw.

[DeanT]

Handle should be up with slots at AQ, as they should get bigger fields. if NYRA can somehow convince the state (and some there I imagine) that a hunk goes to lower rake or juice up NYRA rewards big time, to cultivate the gambling customer, the handle will go up appreciably, imo.

Then again, PHA (or Parx or whatever its called) and a few other slots tracks will probably hit the handle skids.

[Charlie D]

One thing i think the web audio with Messers Platt and Meadow showed is the rulers of racing have no respect for opinion or input from elsewhere. In fact, imho these two intelligent gentlemen were treated like addicts and idiots (mullins) and while this goes on, the TO will remain high, the drug violators will continue to do business as normal, etc, etc and racing will continue on a downward spiral.

[cj]

Handle should be up with slots at AQ, as they should get bigger fields. if NYRA can somehow convince the state (and some there I imagine) that a hunk goes to lower rake or juice up NYRA rewards big time, to cultivate the gambling customer, the handle will go up appreciably, imo.

Then again, PHA (or Parx or whatever its called) and a few other slots tracks will probably hit the handle skids.

It is hard to say really. I think horsemen are going to stay right where they are even with NYRA getting slots. By their nature these days, horsemen avoid competition and protect win percentages. I hope I am wrong.

[toussaud]

I don't see the fun in playing a game that you have no chance to win long term. I have honestly, never been into a casino in my life. Well circus circus when I was like 10 with my mom but other than that, never. No rush to either.

[Sugar Ron]

I saw it.

Slots might be garbage, but so many horse owners and everyone else depend on them for a livelihood. I wonder how many tracks would be running without them.

I dont know slots (thankfully) but people seem to like them. I have no idea why.

The answers on the blog are from serious poker players and sports bettors though, not slots players.

I wonder if someone asked slots players why they dont play racing. I think we can probably guess the answer : I like pulling a lever and sitting there waiting to see if I won, every three seconds.

Clearly not our potential market, whereas sports bettors and poker players, which takes a lot of skill, are.

Way more action playing poker online

Can't imagine that many poker players start playing horses on a regular basis

Capping horse races is challenging and can be fun, but, for the most part, it's viewed as an old man's game...

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Way more action playing poker online

Can't imagine that many poker players start playing horses on a regular basis

Capping horse races is challenging and can be fun, but, for the most part, it's viewed as an old man's game...
80-90% of hands are folded. Have you ever tried to play 5 tracks at once? Plenty of action to be had.

[TurfRuler]

I don't wager on other sports or make other gambling wagers, unless I am at a casino and have a few coins and time on my hands. I don't believe that I would wager the same amount, whether $2 or $20 on a sport bet, I may double my $.25 wager on a poker machine if a Royal Flush were possible (it has happened). I may stop and play a few games of black-jack, but when I lose, one game, two games, three games.....I'm mad as hell. When I play slots, it doesn't matter if's it for pennies it's only for laughs...I'd rather get another cherry :jump:; triple sevens is a superstition. But to let those players who gamble on other sports know why I will only wager large sums on a horse race, it is more predictable and not based on chance or a good run of luck. I lose, not big, but losing is just like my conscience, I am aware of it and I don't want anyone to know it, especially the ones I'm playing against because in the world of crap, poker, etc. it is better to be a good loser than a bad winner, and like patience, not many possess the trait.

[Stillriledup]

I don't wager on other sports or make other gambling wagers, unless I am at a casino and have a few coins and time on my hands. I don't believe that I would wager the same amount, whether $2 or $20 on a sport bet, I may double my $.25 wager on a poker machine if a Royal Flush were possible (it has happened). I may stop and play a few games of black-jack, but when I lose, one game, two games, three games.....I'm mad as hell. When I play slots, it doesn't matter if's it for pennies it's only for laughs...I'd rather get another cherry :jump:; triple sevens is a superstition. But to let those players who gamble on other sports know why I will only wager large sums on a horse race, it is more predictable and not based on chance or a good run of luck. I lose, not big, but losing is just like my conscience, I am aware of it and I don't want anyone to know it, especially the ones I'm playing against because in the world of crap, poker, etc. it is better to be a good loser than a bad winner, and like patience, not many possess the trait.


Same here. I will only bet sports if i'm in Vegas, otherwise, i'm just a horse guy.

I don't bet Poker, i have no interest.

[thaskalos]

80-90% of hands are folded. Have you ever tried to play 5 tracks at once? Plenty of action to be had.That may be true...but this very fact is what allows an online poker player to play 4 or more tables at the same time.

Here is the big difference between horses and online poker IMO:

Online poker, although illegal, is very well organized.

There are informative, sophisticated poker books and dvds that are widely available, and more are produced with regularity...whereas the horseracing well of information appears to have run dry. Where are the recent, quality handicapping books, they are no-where to be found. Is there nothing left to say in our sport?

There are online poker schools out there, where, for a small monthly fee, the poker players are allowed to "look over the shoulders" of respected winning players...who show these players how the professional player plies his trade. Such guidance is invaluable to all players.

And finally...online poker is a much bigger game. If the player has the skill, he can climb to heights that are unimaginable for us horseplayers.

There are games available every night, where players bring six-figure stacks...and half-million dollar winning nights are commonplace.

[TurfRuler]

That may be true...but this very fact is what allows an online poker player to play 4 or more tables at the same time.

Here is the big difference between horses and online poker IMO:

Online poker, although illegal, is very well organized.

There are informative, sophisticated poker books and dvds that are widely available, and more are produced with regularity...whereas the horseracing well of information appears to have run dry. Where are the recent, quality handicapping books, they are no-where to be found. Is there nothing left to say in our sport?

There are online poker schools out there, where, for a small monthly fee, the poker players are allowed to "look over the shoulders" of respected winning players...who show these players how the professional player plies his trade. Such guidance is invaluable to all players.

And finally...online poker is a much bigger game. If the player has the skill, he can climb to heights that are unimaginable for us horseplayers.

There are games available every night, where players bring six-figure stacks...and half-million dollar winning nights are commonplace.

Your world may be heaven, but mine is thus:


"I exist in a world where to me handicapping to win at the races is like playing in a chess game against a chess master, playing in a high stakes poker game with a Royal Flush, and doubling your opponent at backgammon on your last roll, rolling for a double six with four men in different places in your home field, double five won't win the game, but I especially enjoy the feel of being on the winning end of a race by a nose, a whisker or a hair of a long-shot in a horse race."

It is work and effort and not just of deal of the cards shuffled seven times and turned over to see the results.

[thaskalos]

Your world may be heaven, but mine is thus:


"I exist in a world where to me handicapping to win at the races is like playing in a chess game against a chess master, playing in a high stakes poker game with a Royal Flush, and doubling your opponent at backgammon on your last roll, rolling for a double six with four men in different places in your home field, double five won't win the game, but I especially enjoy the feel of being on the winning end of a race by a nose, a whisker or a hair of a long-shot in a horse race."

It is work and effort and not just of deal of the cards shuffled seven times and turned over to see the results.
This is a joke...right?

Sorry...I thought this was a serious topic, which required a serious response...

Horseracing is akin to playing in "a chess game against a chess master"?

I thought it was like playing in a poker game with a 20% rake...where the dealer, on occasion, dealt from the bottom of the deck.

[Robert Goren]

SLOW Sports betters on the other hand do not consider them as gamblers. Sports betters say they are just making the game more interesting.

[TurfRuler]

This is a joke...right?

Sorry...I thought this was a serious topic, which required a serious response...

Horseracing is akin to playing in "a chess game against a chess master"?

I thought it was like playing in a poker game with a 20% rake...where the dealer, on occasion, dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Obviously you have never played against a Master who thinks that he will win any game that he plays.....not so in horse racing and I don't have to be a Master only a player.

[thaskalos]

Obviously you have never played against a Master who thinks that he will win any game that he plays.....not so in horse racing and I don't have to be a Master only a player.In the games that I play my friend, there are no "Masters"...there are only life-long students.

[TurfRuler]

In the games that I play my friend, there are no "Masters"...there are only life-long students.

In the card games I played at the age of eight my opponents looked at my cards through my glasses and won while I lost. :mad: I could use that as an advantage other places but never at home where I learned the trick.

[Robert Goren]

Obviously you have never played against a Master who thinks that he will win any game that he plays.....not so in horse racing and I don't have to be a Master only a player.My dad could win at many gambling games in which he was a percipient(like pool and poker), but did not fair nearly as well at horse racing and sports gambling.

[cj]

My dad could win at many gambling games in which he was a percipient(like pool and poker), but did not fair nearly as well at horse racing and sports gambling.

What is a percipient?

[Robert Fischer]

Slots might be garbage, but so many horse owners and everyone else depend on them for a livelihood. I wonder how many tracks would be running without them.

Dean - what is "worse" morally?
A- Slots
or
B- Racing(and a promoted telephone/online ADW) broadcast with a quality production on free and basic cable channels(well positioned on the dial)(possibly in prime time with lights)
??
Which of the above is better for racing? the pools? the future?

[DeanT]

Dean - what is "worse" morally?
A- Slots
or
B- Racing(and a promoted telephone/online ADW) broadcast with a quality production on free and basic cable channels(well positioned on the dial)(possibly in prime time with lights)
??
Which of the above is better for racing? the pools? the future?

Big horse handles are good for everyone, so that is what I am focused on.

I am not defending slots, just defining their place in racing as an important part of the supply end. On the demand end, all they seem to have done is hurt handles.

[Robert Goren]

What is a percipient?Should be Participant. Sorry. I like to blame the conservatives, but this one was my own damn fault.

[TurfRuler]

The Coleman Complex

"When I went to the Army I would gamble and win. It was easier because what I learned at home before joining up I could use to beat the other players. There was this older man and I took all he had, I shouldn't have done it but....I asked him to hold $900 dollars for me. The next day he came and said that someone had clipped him of the money he had hidden. Well I said, that's what they all say. Shortly thereafter, he returned the $900 to me after gettinig it from his family. Unbeknowest to him I knew where he had hid the money."

[Robert Fischer]

This is a joke...right?

Sorry...I thought this was a serious topic, which required a serious response...

Horseracing is akin to playing in "a chess game against a chess master"?

I thought it was like playing in a poker game with a 20% rake...where the dealer, on occasion, dealt from the bottom of the deck.


CHESS SUCKS

[Mineshaft]

I don't see the fun in playing a game that you have no chance to win long term. I have honestly, never been into a casino in my life. Well circus circus when I was like 10 with my mom but other than that, never. No rush to either.





Circus Circus now that brings back memories

[toussaud]

I have always said I have no problem with the instant racing machines, in fact I think that's just a natural progression with technology and every track should have that. But a full blown casino.. it's only a matter of time before people realize that the track is bleeding money and should be replaced.

[therussmeister]

80-90% of hands are folded. Have you ever tried to play 5 tracks at once? Plenty of action to be had.

80 - 90% of hands are folded by who? Certainly not ever by the bad players, and in this day and age not the good ones either. If you have ever watched The big game on TV you will see typically the pros fold 40 - 75%.

you can go here (http://thebiggame.pokerstars.net/statistics/) and look at the stats.

[Dahoss9698]

Have you ever tried to play 5 tracks at once? Plenty of action to be had.

You're asking the wrong person. Sugar Ron hasn't played 5 races this century.

[thaskalos]

80 - 90% of hands are folded by who? Certainly not ever by the bad players, and in this day and age not the good ones either. If you have ever watched The big game on TV you will see typically the pros fold 40 - 75%.

you can go here (http://thebiggame.pokerstars.net/statistics/) and look at the stats.In the 10-handed limit games, at the higher stakes, it is not unusual to see the players folding 80% of the time.

[Overlay]

CHESS SUCKS

That would explain why your handle is "Robert" rather than "Bobby". :)

[Robert Fischer]

moved on to horses, sports, and weiqi

[thaskalos]

CHESS SUCKSEvidently, World Chess Champion Emanuel Lasker eventually came to the same conclusion as you.

While participating in a chess tournament, in the latter part of his life, the realization that he had wasted his life playing chess struck him...so, he reportedly got up from his chair, and pissed all over the chess board - in front of his startled opponent.

He never touched another chess piece again...

[JustRalph]

While participating in a chess tournament, in the latter part of his life, the realization that he had wasted his life playing chess struck him...so, he reportedly got up from his chair, and pissed all over the chess board - in front of his startled opponent.

He never touched another chess piece again...

I try not to touch pissed on game pieces either

Btw, I just finished a large Iced Tea, anybody know where I can buy a DRF?

[Stillriledup]

I try not to touch pissed on game pieces either

Btw, I just finished a large Iced Tea, anybody know where I can buy a DRF?

Probably at Tiffany's. You'll need a large credit line and lots of credit to be able to afford one however.

[rubicon55]

My dad could win at many gambling games in which he was a percipient(like pool and poker), but did not fair nearly as well at horse racing and sports gambling.

Robert, your word percipient could work since it is defined as a person who percieves the subject, i.e. abstract analysis. :)

[Robert Fischer]

Evidently, World Chess Champion Emanuel Lasker

^ was ahead of his time