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bigmack
01-09-2011, 06:16 PM
It is amazing how unable the general public is able to recognize mental health issues when they're as obvious as in this latest shooting.

After working in a Psych ward in college and having a family member and a friend over the years diagnosed with schizophrenia, (NO, it's not split personalities!) it is a no brainer that this kid was a CLASSIC case of being in the midst of a schizophrnic psychosis. He refers to "conscious dreaming." HELLO, that's delusional thoughts, voices in his head, ideas of grandeur. ALL, classic symptoms of schizophrenia. I've seen it hundreds of times and it's often manifested in the same fashion. Rambling, incoherent writings, flat affectation to the face, etc... Most initially occurring in the ages 18-22

This kid was as sick mentally as a diabetic on the verge of going into a diabetic coma, physically. It's just astounding how little people know about such things. People talking about bad parenting, bullseyes on charts, rhetoric on TV/radio. It's all WAY off.

I do know much of the frenzied finger pointing was caused by a certain camp who when they heard he was white & non-Muslim, rang a bell akin to Ghostbusters and declared - "We Finally Got One."

The kid was/is sick. Plain & simple. With med's he'll level out but all this other banter is just laughable. Some media outlets should hang their head in shame for a rush to judgement in other directions.

Grits
01-09-2011, 06:42 PM
How, though, would his parent's not have picked up on these behaviors, Mack? Please, tell me how. These are not behaviors that go without notice.

bigmack
01-09-2011, 06:49 PM
How, though, would his parent's not have picked up on these behaviors, Mack? Please, tell me how. These are not behaviors that go without notice.
As mentioned, most people haven't a clue how to recognize signs of serious mental illness. They probably figured he was going through a phase.

Strangely enough it's oftentimes the family members themselves that are last to admit the possibility of their loved ones being "sick in the head."

Both my parents had Alzheimer's and I know quite a bit about the signs. I've met many of my peers parents and have heard stories at social gatherings about their increased forgetfulness and paranoid accusatory behavior and I say "You realize those are the early signs of Alz?" In most cases they are unwilling to even explore the possibility.

Steve 'StatMan'
01-09-2011, 06:53 PM
Or maybe his family and/or friends/aquaintances suspected or feared mental illness, but he might have been hard to talk to about it, or admant that he was fine. Hard to get a grown adult to do things they don't want to do, or admit what that don't see (or want to see) or admit.

I knew a lady who used to be a M.D. who I (unfortunately) met at church and tried to help, not understanding that her inability to hold a job (she got de-crtified by the state after refusing a pysical and mentral exam) and troubles rasing her now adult-age son was part of her bio-polar problems that she won't admit ("I'm just burned out on medicine") and outside of church angrily rages against the world and the problems she see in everybody, instead of the problems that are within herself, with by sickness or by personality problems.

Relwob Owner
01-09-2011, 07:05 PM
How, though, would his parent's not have picked up on these behaviors, Mack? Please, tell me how. These are not behaviors that go without notice.

Pure speculation regarding this awful tragedy but I have seen cases where parents have a huge blind spot regarding their children. I imagine it is due to the fact that they love them, feel responsible for them and also I would think that if they acknowledge something is wrong with them, their view of how they themselves brought them up may be compromised.


I am no mental health expert but BM seems to have knowledge of it and his thoughts make sense to me.

boxcar
01-09-2011, 07:39 PM
How, though, would his parent's not have picked up on these behaviors, Mack? Please, tell me how. These are not behaviors that go without notice.

As our society over the years has grown steadily sicker, morally/spiritually, there's also been increased inability, simultaneously, to recognize the differences between "normal" and "abnormal". The lines have become very blurred because, as a society, we've become more conditioned in various ways to accept the abnormal for being normal.

A good physical analogy to this can be seen with people who have lived in chronic pain for a long period of time. Over time, they become so conditioned to the pain, they can barely remember when they didn't have any. In fact, many people living in chronic pain try adapt their behavior to the pain, and can still perform tough (albeit painful chores) remarkably well in spite of their condition; for the pain they suffer is "normal" to them.

Boxcar

bigmack
01-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Meanwhile, many bring tangentially twisted reasons within hours of the shooting for their own agendas and say we need to lower the rhetoric. :bang:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/HEADLINES.jpg

ArlJim78
01-09-2011, 08:21 PM
the students and teachers sure seemed to pick up on his problems. the question is, you suspect someone is unstable, what can you do about it?
here are some emails (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html)sent by a fellow student regarding his classroom behavior. she had him pegged right away, notice she talks about automatic weapons after sitting in class with the guy for one day.


From June 1, the first day of class:
"One day down and nineteen to go. We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

From June 10:
"As for me, Thursday means the end to week two of algebra class. It seems to be going by quickly, but then I do have three weeks to go so we'll see how I feel by then. Class isn't dull as we have a seriously disturbed student in the class, and they are trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he does something bad, but on the other hand, until he does something bad, you can't do anything about him. Needless to say, I sit by
the door."

From June 14:
"We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast..."

boxcar
01-09-2011, 08:26 PM
The hypocrisy of the Left, Mack, is beyond comprehension. What also defies comprehension is the depth to their self-deception.

Boxcar

bigmack
01-09-2011, 08:34 PM
the students and teachers sure seemed to pick up on his problems. the question is, you suspect someone is unstable, what can you do about it?
A 72 hour hold can only be imposed if the person has shown to be in risk of themselves or others.

A school counselor should have been alerted. While not a fan of pharmaceuticals with this disease it's the only option. Sitting down and digging into the id, ego & super-ego, toilet training and how they interpret Rorschach inkblots will have zero effect next to a well prescribed medication that will balance the wild imbalance of instability in their brains.

Most, if not all, cases involve a chemical imbalance not anything like a traumatic event or a complex.

Grits
01-09-2011, 09:19 PM
A good physical analogy to this can be seen with people who have lived in chronic pain for a long period of time. Over time, they become so conditioned to the pain, they can barely remember when they didn't have any. In fact, many people living in chronic pain try adapt their behavior to the pain, and can still perform tough (albeit painful chores) remarkably well in spite of their condition; for the pain they suffer is "normal" to them.

Boxcar

I understand the concern for this young man, still though, its difficult to believe someone could not have seen some red flags. And Boxcar you could well be correct. Maybe we come to live with abnormal so long, its become normal. Be it physical or mental.

Too, the problem could have been similar, though not likely, as the case with BiPolar patients --"I'm fine, there's not a thing wrong with me, I'm not taking these pills anymore. I don't care what the doctor said." Such was the case with an acquaintance of my brother's. Wow, did that go South.

This thing called, "patient's rights", the Americans With Disabilities Act goes far in protecting those with special needs. But at times, it can well be a Catch 22. Its another ballgame.

riskman
01-09-2011, 11:40 PM
Suspect’s Odd Behavior Caused Growing Alarm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?hp

"I was getting concerned about the safety of the students and the school,” said Mr. McGahee, who took to glancing out of the corner of his eye when he was writing on the board for fear that Mr. Loughner might do something. “I was afraid he was going to pull out a weapon.”

More at link above.

JustRalph
01-10-2011, 12:06 AM
Not sure of the validity, but heard on the radio tonight that Walmart clerk refused to sell him ammo because he was hearing voices and acting strange in the store

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 05:46 AM
The conservatives are going this kid off with all this nut case talk. Do you have no shame? This guy deserves the chair(or whatever) not a ward in a nut house.

bigmack
01-10-2011, 06:24 AM
The conservatives are going this kid off with all this nut case talk. Do you have no shame? This guy deserves the chair(or whatever) not a ward in a nut house.
Tough to make sense (again) of what you're trying to say. Try again.

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 07:17 AM
Tough to make sense (again) of what you're trying to say. Try again.Is English your second language? You seem to having a lot of problems understanding it lately.

bigmack
01-10-2011, 08:13 AM
Is English your second language? You seem to having a lot of problems understanding it lately.
What does "The conservatives are going this kid off with all this nut case talk" mean & when will you be able to back-up your Irish Corp Tax gibberish?

ArlJim78
01-10-2011, 09:56 AM
The conservatives are going this kid off with all this nut case talk. Do you have no shame? This guy deserves the chair(or whatever) not a ward in a nut house.conservatives are merely pointing out the facts, and not using the tragedy as a political witchhunt. the people without shame are the mainstream media, your heroes like "economist" Paul Krugman, CNN and the NYT.

the facts are that people who interacted with this killer said he was unstable, prone to making nonsensical statements, worried that he would become violent. his own ramblings that were posted on the internet show that he was not well, paranoid, amongst other things. I've seen doctors on TV say exactly what Bigmack has said, that the guy exhibits all the classic symptoms of mental illness.

now do I want him to get the chair. damn right. But if your issue is with the insanity defense then that is another topic. don't set out against conservatives for merely staying on point.

Greyfox
01-10-2011, 12:00 PM
How, though, would his parent's not have picked up on these behaviors, Mack? Please, tell me how. These are not behaviors that go without notice.

Quite often parents and concerned loved ones do pick up on these behaviors.

They are told by Psychiatrists and Mental Health professionals,

"Sorry....but if he/she refuses treatment there is nothing we can do as long as he is not a danger to himself and others."

The Parent screams: "But he is a danger to himself and others!"

Psychiatrist replies: "He hasn't done anything yet to anyone."

So many of these tormented souls go without treatment for years.
You see many of them on the streets of every major city every day.
The system waits until they commit harm.
Then they can be treated.

Obviously the system is flawed, but solving the problem isn't easy as human rights are involved.

boxcar
01-10-2011, 12:14 PM
Quite often parents and concerned loved ones do pick up on these behaviors.

They are told by Psychiatrists and Mental Health professionals,

"Sorry....but if he/she refuses treatment there is nothing we can do as long as he is not a danger to himself and others."

The Parent screams: "But he is a danger to himself and others!"

Psychiatrist replies: "He hasn't done anything yet to anyone."

So many of these tormented souls go without treatment for years.
You see many of them on the streets of every major city every day.
The system waits until they commit harm.
Then they can be treated.

Obviously the system is flawed, but solving the problem isn't easy as human rights are involved.

And think about the ramifications if human rights weren't involved. People could be carried off to padded cells on the grounds of mere suspicion.

Boxcar

Greyfox
01-10-2011, 12:18 PM
And think about the ramifications if human rights weren't involved. People could be carried off to padded cells on the grounds of mere suspicion.

Boxcar

:ThmbUp: Exactly.

Grits
01-10-2011, 01:49 PM
And think about the ramifications if human rights weren't involved. People could be carried off to padded cells on the grounds of mere suspicion.

Boxcar

There is an age factor that plays a strong part in all of this. These rights are followed to the letter, the documentation, immense. Any caseworker in a Dept.of Health and Human Services Division/Mental Health and Mental Retardation Services will tell a parent, a family member, a friend, anyone--that this individual ADULT'S rights come before all matters. Only when that person has undergone diagnosis and lengthy evaluation and determined incapable of, and in need of guidance in making sound decisions for themselves are others allowed to make decisions for them. This involves a court proceeding to attain legal guardianship of that individual, and this is particularly challenging for those close to adult patients with mental illness who as Mack noted can only be contained no more than 72 hours. Depending upon how severe their illness may be, often, they refuse not only medical treatment, but certainly a legal proceeding. As well, others recognize and understand their problem, and are more than willing to seek the help that enables them to lead normal lives.

Many adults do live on the streets, all over, not only large cities. Many are homeless, often, by choice due to fear of their family members, and a lack of understanding.

With all this said, still, one would think that this young man's parents would have picked up on his dramatic behavior changes given he lived at home. Instead, his teacher did and HIPA law would have enabled that teacher to come forward, but, sadly, he didn't.

Its disturbing to note, how many parents and family members throw up their hands in distress or "explain away" in defense and denial. This is never a good thing. Institution were horrible places, but to be ignored . . . in many ways is worse.

JustRalph
01-10-2011, 01:56 PM
Is English your second language? You seem to having a lot of problems understanding it lately.

I suggest you re-read your post. I have no idea what the heck you are saying in that post either........

mostpost
01-10-2011, 02:32 PM
I suggest you re-read your post. I have no idea what the heck you are saying in that post either........
Have to agree with JR here. RG, you often leave words out of your posts. Words which are important to the meaning of the posts. Sometimes I can extrapolate, sometimes I can't.
I do not mean to be rude, but is some form of dyslexia involved here? After JR made his comment, did you go back and reread what you had posted? If you did, did it still seem alright to you? If you don't have dyslexia issues, then I suggest you proofread.

boxcar
01-10-2011, 02:55 PM
There is an age factor that plays a strong part in all of this. These rights are followed to the letter, the documentation, immense. Any caseworker in a Dept.of Health and Human Services Division/Mental Health and Mental Retardation Services will tell a parent, a family member, a friend, anyone--that this individual ADULT'S rights come before all matters. Only when that person has undergone diagnosis and lengthy evaluation and determined incapable of, and in need of guidance in making sound decisions for themselves are others allowed to make decisions for them. This involves a court proceeding to attain legal guardianship of that individual, and this is particularly challenging for those close to adult patients with mental illness who as Mack noted can only be contained no more than 72 hours. Depending upon how severe their illness may be, often, they refuse not only medical treatment, but certainly a legal proceeding. As well, others recognize and understand their problem, and are more than willing to seek the help that enables them to lead normal lives.

Many adults do live on the streets, all over, not only large cities. Many are homeless, often, by choice due to fear of their family members, and a lack of understanding.

With all this said, still, one would think that this young man's parents would have picked up on his dramatic behavior changes given he lived at home. Instead, his teacher did and HIPA law would have enabled that teacher to come forward, but, sadly, he didn't.

Its disturbing to note, how many parents and family members throw up their hands in distress or "explain away" in defense and denial. This is never a good thing. Institution were horrible places, but to be ignored . . . in many ways is worse.

This is a complicated subject, Grits. But I'm not that surprised that this unnatural behavior can often be "overlooked" by parents because parents can easily lose objectivity when trying to judge or discern these things. The parents are too close to the situation. And if the family is dysfunctional to any appreciable degree this exacerbates the problem, and would make it even more unlikely the parents would notice their kid's "weirdness". Conversely, outsiders are more likely to notice and are more capable of making objective observations and drawing objective conclusions.

Remember: Families are a "unit". So, the physical pain analogy I drew earlier applies here, too. Various family members can also get accustomed to another member's pain -- because they have all "lived with it for so long". It's natural.

Perhaps an even better analogy, though, would be doctor-patient relationships. Smart doctors won't treat immediate family members for serious conditions because of the fear of loss of professional objectivity. This is especially true with mental or psychological problems.

And at the end of the day, notwithstanding this kid's mental problems, we must remember that we're all irrational to some degree. Every single one of us think, speak and behave irrationally to one degree or another at some time or another. So...what we're really talking about here are the degrees of irrational behavior. And according to my understanding of scripture, this kind of behavior is due to sin. And this makes good sense because we're all sinners. But when it comes to extreme irrational behavior, there is another element involved. There is a divine judicial aspect. Scripture teaches that when men don't wish to retain God in their knowledge -- when they insist on rejecting the truth -- God can give them over to "vile affections" and to a "depraved (or reprobate) mind". God literally abandons such people and leaves them to their own sinful devices. The result is not pretty at all. The list of sins that are symptomatic of this judicial action on God's part is very long and very comprehensive.

Now, what's interesting about this kid is that he was very much anti-God. This was a kid who definitely did not wish to retain God in his knowledge. And we have concrete proof of this because he was into drugs and into the occult. The LameStream media is barely reporting on this latter fact because it doesn't fit well into their conservative template. You won't find too many occult altars in conservatives' backyards.

http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/01/10/occult-connection-unveils-deranged-condition-of-loughner-alter-with-skull-and-talismans-found-behind-home

Boxcar

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 02:55 PM
For those of you who have problems with English I will explain it further. If he is found to be insane(as some conservatives are saying he is), he will not face the death penalty. I have seen nothing to make me think he is insane. He is pretty far out there on the right and has a problem expressing his beliefs, but he is not insane. If locked everyone like that, we would have build a bunch of new insane asylums. I have seen some of those beliefs expressed here. The idea that a currency is worthless unless it backed by Gold and/or Silver has been discussed many times. The posters holding that view may be wrong, but they are not insane. Having "Right Wing Views" and then killing someone does make him insane anymore than having "Left Wing Views" and killing someone would. There seems be a "train of terror" running though the minds of some conservatives that if people do not believe he is not insane then it will reflect badly on some their beliefs. To them I say "Get Over it". Lets get this guy tried and excuted. Conservative ideas will not disappear if that happens.

Greyfox
01-10-2011, 03:00 PM
The conservatives are going this kid off with all this nut case talk. Do you have no shame? This guy deserves the chair(or whatever) not a ward in a nut house.

I think that Robert was saying:

"The conservatives are going to get (or let) this kid off with all this nut case talk."

Whether or not he deserves "the chair" or a "ward" remains to be determined by those who are assessing him.

TurfRuler
01-10-2011, 03:03 PM
I believe that Willie Horton is living the good life, like the rest of us, except a certain portion of the general population that is WMF....don't forget the ex-governor of Alaska, tears won't help her take down testosterone levels, Bonners may..

Greyfox
01-10-2011, 03:05 PM
For those of you who have problems with English I will explain it further. If he is found to be insane(as some conservatives are saying he is), he will not face the death penalty. I have seen nothing to make me think he is insane. ..... To them I say "Get Over it". Lets get this guy tried and excuted. .


You haven't seen anything to make you think that he is insane because you haven't assessed him.
Any judgement regarding his mental condition and motivations is far too premature at this time.

bigmack
01-10-2011, 03:07 PM
For those of you who have problems with English I will explain it further. If he is found to be insane(as some conservatives are saying he is), he will not face the death penalty.
Three people couldn't figure it out, including one of your comrades who wondered if you're dyslexic and you continue with your accusation of people having problems with English? :lol: You are beautiful.

Some conservatives are saying "if" he is "found" insane? You're coming unglued.

Tom
01-10-2011, 03:08 PM
To them I say "Get Over it".

But say it tot eh right people - those who could not wait to blame Palin and Beck and the political climate for this, all without a one damn fact to go on.
What is funny is they keep blaming the right but the guy is always described as a LEFT WING nut.

Somehow, this will end up on Bush's shoulders.:rolleyes:

TurfRuler
01-10-2011, 03:14 PM
But say it tot eh right people - those who could not wait to blame Palin and Beck and the political climate for this, all without a one damn fact to go on.
What is funny is they keep blaming the right but the guy is always described as a LEFT WING nut.

Somehow, this will end up on Bush's shoulders.:rolleyes:

Which Bush Ruler....I know of three, two presidents and one that is undescribable.

boxcar
01-10-2011, 03:27 PM
For those of you who have problems with English I will explain it further. If he is found to be insane(as some conservatives are saying he is), he will not face the death penalty. I have seen nothing to make me think he is insane. He is pretty far out there on the right... (emphasis mine)

Can you lay out the evidence for me why you think this guy is right-wing extremist. After all, he clung to his gun, but not a bible (as your boy BO has characterized right wing "extremists").

But I digress...please present your case as to why you think this guy was a right wing nut.

Boxcar

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 03:40 PM
While I do not think that some the visuals posted by Palin, ect and even by some on the left are helpful to the political discussion, they did not cause this guy to go on his killing spree. If his reported views are "left wing", then what are "right wing" views? His reported views are certainly to right of many who call them selves conservative who post here. I have seen anything reported that would put him to left of any of the liberals who post here. I think I heard of a person who knew him for a while in high school call him "left wing", but I did not hear why she thought so. Maybe someone has and could post it.

mostpost
01-10-2011, 03:41 PM
For those of you who have problems with English I will explain it further. If he is found to be insane(as some conservatives are saying he is), he will not face the death penalty. I have seen nothing to make me think he is insane. He is pretty far out there on the right and has a problem expressing his beliefs, but he is not insane. If locked everyone like that, we would have build a bunch of new insane asylums. I have seen some of those beliefs expressed here. The idea that a currency is worthless unless it backed by Gold and/or Silver has been discussed many times. The posters holding that view may be wrong, but they are not insane. Having "Right Wing Views" and then killing someone does make him insane anymore than having "Left Wing Views" and killing someone would. There seems be a "train of terror" running though the minds of some conservatives that if people do not believe he is not insane then it will reflect badly on some their beliefs. To them I say "Get Over it". Lets get this guy tried and excuted. Conservative ideas will not disappear if that happens.
There is a lot more proof that he is insane than that he is either Democratic or Republican. And frankly, the way he voted is much less germane to his actions than is his mental status. In other words, if he is crazy, it does not matter if he is Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, or a member of the "Let's Paint Our Pets Purple" party.

Greyfox
01-10-2011, 03:41 PM
(emphasis mine)

Can you lay out the evidence for me why you think this guy is right-wing extremist.

Yes. I'd be interested in that evidence too. The article that I have in front of me says:

"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy," the former classmate Catie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds on Saturday.

bigmack
01-10-2011, 04:00 PM
There is a lot more proof that he is insane than that he is either Democratic or Republican. And frankly, the way he voted is much less germane to his actions than is his mental status. In other words, if he is crazy, it does not matter if he is Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, or a member of the "Let's Paint Our Pets Purple" party.
Well I declare. A brief moment of actual non-partisan lucidity. There might be hope for you after all.

boxcar
01-10-2011, 04:09 PM
There is a lot more proof that he is insane than that he is either Democratic or Republican. And frankly, the way he voted is much less germane to his actions than is his mental status. In other words, if he is crazy, it does not matter if he is Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, or a member of the "Let's Paint Our Pets Purple" party.

That remains to be seen -- if he's legally insane, that is.

Just remember this: This kid, as nuts as he may be, nonetheless sported a world view, such as it is. And his view of the world was formed by things he read (Marxist Nazi materials), things he listened to (godless heavy metal music) and things he worshiped (probably the devil, given the occult shrine he had in his yard) -- and last but by no means last -- by the things he did not do -- keep God in his knowledge. All these things and others contributed to his warped world view -- his philosophy, etc. All these things contributed to his belief system.

Boxcar

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 04:21 PM
Yes. I'd be interested in that evidence too. The article that I have in front of me says:

"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy," the former classmate Catie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds on Saturday.Link to the 2012 prophecy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon
I have a lot of liberal (and some "new age") friends and have heard of it before now. Has anyone else heard of it before now? Or don't I get out enough?

boxcar
01-10-2011, 04:29 PM
Link to the 2012 prophecy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon
I have a lot of liberal (and some "new age") friends and have heard of it before now. Has anyone else heard of it before now? Or don't I get out enough?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Shirely U. Jest. This is junk that New Agers, the Mayans, Astrologers, etc. believed in and somehow you deduce that the guy must be a right winger? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Okay...whatever....

Boxcar

ArlJim78
01-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Bob Kerry said the guy was angry because Republicans want to repeal Obamacare.

Jim Clyburn said it was because Republicans read the constitution the other day.

Every minute it seems there is an even more bizarre theory from the left.

ArlJim78
01-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Notice his last words posted on the morning of the shooting, its like he was trying to hint at every lame "society made me do it" excuse.


The longest war in the history of the United States. Goodbye. I'm saddened with the current currency and job employment. I had a bully at school


see he was troubled by the war.
saddened by the economy.
and to top it off was bullied in school.

Robert Goren
01-10-2011, 05:01 PM
He tried to enlist in the Army. That alone makes him a conservative because we all know that no liberal would ever try to enlist in the Army, the Air Force maybe, certainly not the Army or the Marines.:rolleyes:

boxcar
01-10-2011, 05:59 PM
He tried to enlist in the Army. That alone makes him a conservative because we all know that no liberal would ever try to enlist in the Army, the Air Force maybe, certainly not the Army or the Marines.:rolleyes:

He probably was desperate for a paycheck. (Come to think of it, has this guy ever been employed? Doesn't seem like he'd be very employable.) Anyhoo...Robert, this hardly constitutes proof that he was a conservative. Besides, how do you know he didn't have wicked ulterior motives for wanting to join in the first place?

Boxcar

JustRalph
01-10-2011, 09:15 PM
every time I think Mostie is about to fall off the scale, he leans back toward sanity and makes me agree with him. :ThmbUp:

bigmack
01-10-2011, 11:50 PM
With the sensitivity of a backhoe, Olbermann tried to cram words into the mouth of the woman who took the second magazine from the shooter.

Olbermann is as morally vacant as they come.

FsNU1bql67w

mostpost
01-11-2011, 12:53 AM
With the sensitivity of a backhoe, Olbermann tried to cram words into the mouth of the woman who took the second magazine from the shooter.

Olbermann is as morally vacant as they come.

FsNU1bql67w
Once again you make a statement with little or no knowledge of what you are talking about. Have you personally known any backhoes? Despite their rugged appearance they can be quite sensitive.
There may be backhoes lurking on this forum. I hope you are proud of yourself. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Bettowin
01-11-2011, 01:05 AM
Once again you make a statement with little or no knowledge of what you are talking about. Have you personally known any backhoes? Despite their rugged appearance they can be quite sensitive.
There may be backhoes lurking on this forum. I hope you are proud of yourself. :bang: :bang: :bang:

I have worked with and helped design a few backhoes and I would agree they are indeed quite sensitive......... and much more intelligent than Keith Olbermann.

bigmack
01-11-2011, 01:49 AM
There may be backhoes lurking on this forum. I hope you are proud of yourself.
Now you're making as much sense as goran. I haven't a clue what you's yappin' about.

boxcar
01-11-2011, 12:55 PM
I have worked with and helped design a few backhoes and I would agree they are indeed quite sensitive......... and much more intelligent than Keith Olbermann.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

Tom
01-11-2011, 12:58 PM
He tried to enlist in the Army. That alone makes him a conservative because we all know that no liberal would ever try to enlist in the Army, the Air Force maybe, certainly not the Army or the Marines.:rolleyes:

But he was rejected for being a doper, clearly putting him on the left.:D

boxcar
01-11-2011, 01:03 PM
But he was rejected for being a doper, clearly putting him on the left.:D

Now, now...we don't know that for sure. He could have been a Clintonesque doper. (Oops, almost forgot: Clinton is a leftist, too). :D

Boxcar

mostpost
01-11-2011, 01:08 PM
Nightline had this last night.
http://www.comcast.net/video/inside-jared-lee-loughner-s-mind/1735858287/fanNews/newest/

mostpost
01-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Now you're making as much sense as goran. I haven't a clue what you's yappin' about.
Explaining a joke is always an exercise in futility. Bettowin got it. You didn't.

WeirdWilly
01-11-2011, 01:20 PM
Quite often parents and concerned loved ones do pick up on these behaviors.

They are told by Psychiatrists and Mental Health professionals,

"Sorry....but if he/she refuses treatment there is nothing we can do as long as he is not a danger to himself and others."

The Parent screams: "But he is a danger to himself and others!"

Psychiatrist replies: "He hasn't done anything yet to anyone."

So many of these tormented souls go without treatment for years.
You see many of them on the streets of every major city every day.
The system waits until they commit harm.
Then they can be treated.

Obviously the system is flawed, but solving the problem isn't easy as human rights are involved.

Exactly.

The buzz seems to be a "Minority Report" style system - lock up people preemptively if there is a chance they might hurt someone.

So, with 7 Billion people around the world in mental institutions...

Some cases are pretty obvious. In hindsight, this one is. But where IS the line? For example, Goths are dark and death obsessed. Most of us find them creepy. But only a microscopic fraction of them will actually ever commit a violent crime. Which ones? Do we lock them all up and pump them full of drugs? What would the uproar be then?

Preventive institutionalization is a dark and dangerous road to travel. It is easy to abuse for political or social engineering purposes. That is why, in spite of some additional risk to public safety, standards must be high on involuntary commitment.

WeirdWilly
01-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Once again you make a statement with little or no knowledge of what you are talking about. Have you personally known any backhoes? Despite their rugged appearance they can be quite sensitive.
There may be backhoes lurking on this forum. I hope you are proud of yourself. :bang: :bang: :bang:

I've known hoes who make their living on their back, and they have MUCH more sensitivity then Mr Olbermann!

johnhannibalsmith
01-11-2011, 01:52 PM
There is a lot more proof that he is insane than that he is either Democratic or Republican. And frankly, the way he voted is much less germane to his actions than is his mental status. In other words, if he is crazy, it does not matter if he is Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, or a member of the "Let's Paint Our Pets Purple" party.

The postman always rings twice and two rings means well done.

WeirdWilly
01-11-2011, 01:57 PM
or a member of the "Let's Paint Our Pets Purple" party.

Where do you join that party? I am tired of boring orange and white - I want a furry grape instead!

Can anyone recommend a good, non-toxic flat acrylic spray?

(For the humor impared: NO, I am not really going to paint my pet purple, except in Photoshop)