War Pass RIP

[Jasonm921]

Another one of our sports young stallions passed away at a the very young age of 5 years old. I enjoyed his brief but exciting career. Hope his foals carry his speed gene that made him a special 2 year old.

[Grits]

Wow, so young. How sad.

[tzipi]

Wow. R.I.P War Pass. Very young.

[Tom]

Looks to be a mystery at this point.....sad news.

The morning of his death, War Pass showed no signs of illness or injury. He was turned out in his paddock and died several hours later. Preliminary necropsy results are inconclusive.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60485/champion-war-pass-dies#ixzz19MCDgQ9B

[Nikki1997]

Poor guy, only five .

I am not a fan of shuttling stallions, long distance shipping can be subtly stressful .

This was a shock and very sad------MIKKI

[DJofSD]

Probably either broke his neck or had heart failure.

[tucker6]

Probably either broke his neck or had heart failure.There were no signs of injury, so a broken neck is unlikely.

[joanied]

Very sad way to end the year...I hope they find a cause of death, I'm curious about that...wondering if it has anything to do with his being in the Southern hemisphere...did he contract some illness? was the stress of shipping cause a heart attack? There has to be a reason a healthy 5 year old horse suddenly dies.
I have never been in favor of shutteling stallions, maybe some good will come of this and owners/breeders will think twice about doing this.

War Pass
R.I.P :(

[Cardus]

If it can be proven that shuttling horses is physically dangerous to the stallion, then that process should be reconsidered.

I wouldn't base it on the death of one horse, and I would have to see scientific data as well.

[Cardus]

Poor guy, only five .

I am not a fan of shuttling stallions, long distance shipping can be subtly stressful .

This was a shock and very sad------MIKKI

Perhaps horses should not be shipped to across the globe to race, either.

Also, you needn't identify yourself; this post had "Mikki" written all over it.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Very sad way to end the year...I hope they find a cause of death, I'm curious about that...wondering if it has anything to do with his being in the Southern hemisphere...did he contract some illness? was the stress of shipping cause a heart attack? There has to be a reason a healthy 5 year old horse suddenly dies.
I have never been in favor of shutteling stallions, maybe some good will come of this and owners/breeders will think twice about doing this.

War Pass
R.I.P :(

You have 10 million times the knowledge about horses than me Joanie but this is straight up disturbing.They turn him out and he drops dead?Damn.5 years old?Way too soon.

[Fat Syd]

People act like horses aren't like every other living thing. People die at all ages so do valuable stallions. Didn't a very young Sunriver die in the paddock on a lovely summer day last year. The real question is why the need for live cover?

[CincyHorseplayer]

People act like horses aren't like every other living thing. People die at all ages so do valuable stallions. Didn't a very young Sunriver die in the paddock on a lovely summer day last year. The real question is why the need for live cover?

Why not?We all love horses over here,which is why were on a horseracing website.We care about these animals beyond bets.That's why.

[Fat Syd]

Why not?We all love horses over here,which is why were on a horseracing website.We care about these animals beyond bets.That's why.


Ok but horses die all the time even 5 year old studs that are groomed daily and are given the finest in equine care. You can't seriously think plane rides are killing horses? You care about War Pass or you care that people are mistreating there 20mil dollar studs. Don't people usually try to protect their 20mil dollar investment?

[PhantomOnTour]

People act like horses aren't like every other living thing. People die at all ages so do valuable stallions. Didn't a very young Sunriver die in the paddock on a lovely summer day last year. The real question is why the need for live cover?

I think it eliminates a whole heckuva lot of chicanery. Someone thinks they're buying AP Indy semen and are really getting Zippy Chippy semen instead. With this method a stud could breed 2500 mares a season.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Ok but horses die all the time even 5 year old studs that are groomed daily and are given the finest in equine care. You can't seriously think plane rides are killing horses? You care about War Pass or you care that people are mistreating there 20mil dollar studs. Don't people usually try to protect their 20mil dollar investment?

This isn't about "Horses die all the time".It's about 1 horse.Can you let it be that instead of the rest of your post?

Pretty coarse IMO.They die and here are my other thoughts.

[Fat Syd]

[/B]

I think it eliminates a whole heckuva lot of chicanery. Someone thinks they're buying AP Indy semen and are really getting Zippy Chippy semen instead. With this method a stud could breed 2500 mares a season.

Not really. You could cap it at 150 foals or even less.

[FenceBored]

Not really. You could cap it at 150 foals or even less.

Tell it to the AQHA, they'd love to hear how they could reestablish control over things like that.

[Fat Syd]

Respectfully, the horse is dead and yes it happens all the time. Do you really have feelings for War Pass? Did you ever even see the horse race live?

[Nikki1997]

Perhaps horses should not be shipped to across the globe to race, either.

Also, you needn't identify yourself; this post had "Mikki" written all over it.

I never said horses should not be shipped for whatever reason, but merely brought out the stress that can be involved.

Perhaps you should look into the fact that in the last century as well as earlier, horses died of " shipping fever " on trains and boats . Travel even in the best conditions, may be stressful even if many horses travel successfully or show no obvious signs of stress .

It is not something I invented to perpetuate something that you think is identifiable as Mikkiesque .

Although travel has become more sophisticated and safer than it was prior, there is still stress.

It was not uncommon in the past for some stallions shipping overseas not to survive the trips on long boatrides, and in the more recent past, flying has claimed a few lives as well .

Earlier embarcation on flights involved a horse jumping from a ramp over a space to the plane , Never Bow suffered a fatal injury in such a situation .

Horses can freak on a plane even with tranquilizers , and in the worst cases have been put down to not endanger the other occupants of the flight.

Horses have been known to refuse to get on a plane .

They can also colic ,go off their feed, and lose weight and dehydrate even after short trips regardless of the type of transportation.

There is plenty of evidence to support this..

I am glad you think you know which sister is posting, others may not be that sure.

Sincerely,

MIKKI

[Fat Syd]

In this day and age shouldn't it be within reach?

[Cardus]

I never said horses should not be shipped for whatever reason, but merely brought out the stress that can be involved.

Perhaps you should look into the fact that in the last century as well as earlier, horses died of " shipping fever " on trains and boats . Travel even in the best conditions, may be stressful even if many horses travel successfully or show no obvious signs of stress .

It is not something I invented to perpetuate something that you think is identifiable as Mikkiesque .

Although travel has become more sophisticated and safer than it was prior, there is still stress.

It was not uncommon in the past for some stallions shipping overseas not to survive the trips on long boatrides, and in the more recent past, flying has claimed a few lives as well .

Earlier embarcation on flights involved a horse jumping from a ramp over a space to the plane , Never Bow suffered a fatal injury in such a situation .

Horses can freak on a plane even with tranquilizers , and in the worst cases have been put down to not endanger the other occupants of the flight.

Horses have been known to refuse to get on a plane .

They can also colic ,go off their feed, and lose weight and dehydrate even after short trips regardless of the type of transportation.

There is plenty of evidence to support this..

I am glad you think you know which sister is posting, others may not be that sure.

Sincerely,

MIKKI

Start linkin'.

[joanied]

Everything Mikki said about shipping is true, the facts of shipping are well known, and everytime a horse does ship, there's a chance of something bad happening...
in the case of War Pass, who knows? I hope they will publish whatever findings they get after autopsy... he died of something...and I'd like to know what is was...maybe he had a bad flight back up here and in some way that has something to do with his death...but, until 'they' tell us what the reason is for his death, it's just another sad thing to deal with...

...and of course breeders/owners will take the best of care with their investments...the stallions, and IMO, shutteling is not in their best interest...as far as I'm concerned, all it does is put more money in their pockets and puts more stress on the stallions that cover 100 mares up here and another 100 down there...with at least 2 covers per mare, that is a lot of physical stress...it's no wonder so many stallions come up with neck and back end injuries....and with so many mare owners opting out of breeding (because of the economy) I suppose stallion owners feel the need to send stallions down there to breed more mares.

As for using AI...it IS better for the mares, and in a way, better for the stallions because from one cover to a dummy mare, they have enough semen for a couple of mares...so at least the stallions don't have to mount as often...it can be regulated so there aren't any more mares being bred than need be bred, and DNA would take care of parentage...
someone mentioned the AQHA, but I beleive the problems they have encountered is from allowing suragate mares/embryo transfer...one mare can have several surragates so there are several foals born in the same year registered to one mare...crazy? yep!!

[Rackon]

Very sad news, and must be a terrible blow for the owners and farm. Will be interested to learn the cause of death - these things happen - aneurysm, heart attack etc. It need not be travel induced stress that triggered it - or it may be a causative factor. no one knows at this point.

At the risk of hijacking the thread...coming from breeds where AI is the norm, it seems bizarre to me that extremely valuable breeding TB stock must be at risk in live cover situations. Yes, I know all the old arguments (have had this conversation with TB friends many times over the last 30 years), but I feel in this day and age of modern DNA testing objections can be overcome, books limited if neededetc. and the whole thing managed much better with AI. I doubt it will change any time soon,. Just seems odd to me that the TB industry, so often at the cutting edge of care, training and therapies, seems grossly behind the times in this aspect. (I say this as someone with some experience who once stood a stallion and bred anywhere from 25-45 outside mares a year.)

[joanied]

Very sad news, and must be a terrible blow for the owners and farm. Will be interested to learn the cause of death - these things happen - aneurysm, heart attack etc. It need not be travel induced stress that triggered it - or it may be a causative factor. no one knows at this point.

At the risk of hijacking the thread...coming from breeds where AI is the norm, it seems bizarre to me that extremely valuable breeding TB stock must be at risk in live cover situations. Yes, I know all the old arguments (have had this conversation with TB friends many times over the last 30 years), but I feel in this day and age of modern DNA testing objections can be overcome, books limited if neededetc. and the whole thing managed much better with AI. I doubt it will change any time soon,. Just seems odd to me that the TB industry, so often at the cutting edge of care, training and therapies, seems grossly behind the times in this aspect. (I say this as someone with some experience who once stood a stallion and bred anywhere from 25-45 outside mares a year.)

Agree about War Pass and the cause of death...as discussed already, we have to wait until they publish the cause...IF they publish it...and certainly an aneurysm could be the cause, and that could be a direct result of high altitude flying...

as for the TB and using AI for breeding, I really don't see any problem with it...in my other post I mentioned embyro transfer, used by the QH industry...now that is a real problem, IMO...they can get several foals registered under the same mare in the same year...and that puts the small QH breeder at a huge disadvantage...the competition gets awful good when you have several great bred horses from the same mare racing or eventing...it's ridiculous, IMO....
but, using AI for TB's should not be a problem...DNA takes care of any questions as far as parentage, it's quick, easy and 100% acurate...books can be regulated just as they are with live cover...the stallions might hold up longer because they won't have to mount as many times per breeding season, and take it from me because I went from live cover to AI when breeding my TB mares to QH stallions...and my mares practically told me how much happier they were not having to deal with a stallion on their backs:D :ThmbUp: ...also, it's a 'cleaner' way to breed, so mares don't get infections as often as in live cover.

[Cardus]

Everything Mikki said about shipping is true, the facts of shipping are well known, and everytime a horse does ship, there's a chance of something bad happening...
in the case of War Pass, who knows? I hope they will publish whatever findings they get after autopsy... he died of something...and I'd like to know what is was...maybe he had a bad flight back up here and in some way that has something to do with his death...but, until 'they' tell us what the reason is for his death, it's just another sad thing to deal with...

...and of course breeders/owners will take the best of care with their investments...the stallions, and IMO, shutteling is not in their best interest...as far as I'm concerned, all it does is put more money in their pockets and puts more stress on the stallions that cover 100 mares up here and another 100 down there...with at least 2 covers per mare, that is a lot of physical stress...it's no wonder so many stallions come up with neck and back end injuries....and with so many mare owners opting out of breeding (because of the economy) I suppose stallion owners feel the need to send stallions down there to breed more mares.

As for using AI...it IS better for the mares, and in a way, better for the stallions because from one cover to a dummy mare, they have enough semen for a couple of mares...so at least the stallions don't have to mount as often...it can be regulated so there aren't any more mares being bred than need be bred, and DNA would take care of parentage...
someone mentioned the AQHA, but I beleive the problems they have encountered is from allowing suragate mares/embryo transfer...one mare can have several surragates so there are several foals born in the same year registered to one mare...crazy? yep!!

If such a charge is so well-known, then providing scholarship to validate it should be easy for her.

And, for the record, there is a chance of something bad happening every time a horse leaves its stall.

Let's shut down racing.

And, until "they" tell us why he died, everything here is irresponsible guessing.

[DJofSD]

...and certainly an aneurysm could be the cause, and that could be a direct result of high altitude flying...

Err, ummmm...... I don't think so.

[Nikki1997]

Start linkin'.


Link off .

It is not my responsibility to educate the curmudgeonly.

Plus Joanie D knows I don't do links .

But in the holiday spirit I will refer you to a Thoroughbred Times article for starters..

Just do a search on shipping fever . It is a stress influenced virus.

And before you exaggerate what I have said--I do NOT know what caused the unfortunate death of War Pass, but I originally said shipping can be stressful .

You are welcome

MIKKI

[tucker6]

[QUOTE=Cardus]
And, for the record, there is a chance of something bad happening every time a horse leaves its stall.

QUOTE]Hell, plenty of horses have died IN the stall.

[Cardus]

Link off .

It is not my responsibility to educate the curmudgeonly.

Plus Joanie D knows I don't do links .

But in the holiday spirit I will refer you to a Thoroughbred Times article for starters..

Just do a search on shipping fever . It is a stress influenced virus.

And before you exaggerate what I have said--I do NOT know what caused the unfortunate death of War Pass, but I originally said shipping can be stressful .

You are welcome

MIKKI

First of all, I quoted Joaneid's post, not yours.

Secondly, I think that I am being taken for a bit of a ride here, for the above post has all of the hallmarks of NIKKI, not MIKKI.

Come on, play fair.

[joanied]

Err, ummmm...... I don't think so.

"However, evidence exists of nutritional causes for dissecting aneurysm in rats, where it accompanies ... It is also a feature of high altitude disease. ..."
The above is from a book review and I wasn't able to copy & paste the entire article...but, that isn't necessary anyway...if War Pass was having any type of problem with his heart or blood vessles, it is possible that his flight caused an aneurysm that burst the next morning....probably not, but it is possible.

[Cardus]

It's Internet Land, I get it, but why is it so important to speculate about War Pass' cause of death?

Can someone who does not rely upon emoticons/ellipses or multiple personalities explain it to me?

[DJofSD]

Ego.

[Nikki1997]

It's Internet Land, I get it, but why is it so important to speculate about War Pass' cause of death?

Can someone who does not rely upon emoticons/ellipses or multiple personalities explain it to me?


No one has multiple personalities. And remember YOU responded to me. If you don't want to hear it, just say no .

And if you have a problem with people being curious why a young and apparently healthy horse just dies, there is no explaining it to you. From anyone .

This has nothing to do with the kangaroo court of internetland which you regularly inhabit .

You doubted shipping could cause stresses and worse, and it hopefully has been shown to you that it can . If not call a bloody vet.

Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch .

MIKKI

[Cardus]

No one has multiple personalities. And remember YOU responded to me. If you don't want to hear it, just say no .

And if you have a problem with people being curious why a young and apparently healthy horse just dies, there is no explaining it to you. From anyone .

This has nothing to do with the kangaroo court of internetland which you regularly inhabit .

You doubted shipping could cause stresses and worse, and it hopefully has been shown to you that it can . If not call a bloody vet.

Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch .

MIKKI

Right, I am going to take something the two of you say at face value.

And if you don't see that random guessing here is of no value, then there is no explaining it to either of you.

[Nikki1997]

Right, I am going to take something the two of you say at face value.

And if you don't see that random guessing here is of no value, then there is no explaining it to either of you.

I never said random guessing was of of value or not .

And please don't take my word for anything--look it up your old lazyazz self.

only MIKKI

[Nikki1997]

First of all, I quoted Joaneid's post, not yours.

Secondly, I think that I am being taken for a bit of a ride here, for the above post has all of the hallmarks of NIKKI, not MIKKI.

Come on, play fair.


I thought you could tell us apart.

She's the one who ate crawfish fettucini for dinner in Lousiana .

That is not on the menu here .

IT is I Mikki, who wouldn't dream of taking you for a ride.

[tucker6]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I just did an internet search for 15 minutes, and could not find any references to horses dying from flying. Unless my query was off the mark, I'm gathering deaths from it don't happen very often.

[Nikki1997]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I just did an internet search for 15 minutes, and could not find any references to horses dying from flying. Unless my query was off the mark, I'm gathering deaths from it don't happen very often.

Try seaching for shipping fever-they get it with all kinds of transport and it can be fatal .

MIKKI

[tucker6]

Try seaching for shipping fever-they get it with all kinds of transport and it can be fatal .

MIKKI
Thanks. I just did a search, and shipping fever doesn't appear to be the problem here. It has recognizable signs, and CAN cause death as quick as 30 days after the travel if not treated with drugs. Since the death was sudden and the cause unknown, I trust the vet has ruled this out.

[nijinski]

I remenber his short campaign well . Very sad he died so toung , RIP War Pass.

[Nikki1997]

Thanks. I just did a search, and shipping fever doesn't appear to be the problem here. It has recognizable signs, and CAN cause death as quick as 30 days after the travel if not treated with drugs. Since the death was sudden and the cause unknown, I trust the vet has ruled this out.


Shipping fever may very well not have been the problem, but it is NOT always totally symptomatic with the virus like symptoms, either . It can cause death way sooner than 30 days as well with or without meds.

I used it as an obvious example of stress from travel . Colic , dehydration and heart irregularities are also travel induced stresses, as I and others mentioned .

Elevated heart rate can occur, and there is no way of knowing this either .

The vet or vets st this point can only rule anything in or out via necropsy .

Even necropsy can be somewhat inconclusive, as was the case with Swale, whose last work apparently stressed a small irregular piece of heart muscle so tiny that it can only be somewhat assumed that this ireegularity cause the electrical impulses in the heart to not " fire " correctly .

Stress is a very subtle situation, it is not black and white. It is not simple a snotty nose and lung congestion.

Whether it was or wasn't shipping fever, the term is correctly used to encompass all kinds of ill from stress in travel, not just the obvious.

Nikki is going to put up a link or so for those who are interested.

MIKKI

[Nikki1997]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/48502.html

[classhandicapper]

Sad news. :( That's a loss for the sport also because he was very talented and I would have bet that he was going to make a pretty good sire.

[GlenninOhio]

This proves nothing about nothing, but I figured as long as the subject is the mystery surrounding a prematurely deceased stallion, it might be of some interest to recall that there was a health-related controversy near the end of War Pass' racing career that briefly looked like some serious sparring between LaPenta and Zito before they very quickly got back "on message" together.

From Dick Powell's Brisnet column on 3/21/08:

"I was hoping last year's undefeated juvenile champion WAR PASS (Cherokee Run) would continue his winning ways in the Tampa Bay Derby (G3), get through his final prep race and go to Louisville as an overwhelming favorite. At that point, I would bet against him with both fists.

But a funny thing happened on the way through Oldsmar, Florida. Sent off at odds of 1-20, War Pass was bumped soundly at the start by Make Me Zach (First Tour) from the outside and Gentleman James (Yankee Gentleman) from the inside. Instead of going to his customary spot on the lead, he wound up in uncomfortable quarters going around the first turn.

Down the backstretch, Cornelio Velasquez eased War Pass back a bit and steered him to the outside for clear running room. But, despite a first half in :47.44, it looked like War Pass was having trouble keeping up. If he was going to move, it would be nearing the far turn, but all he did was maintain his position. When Atoned (Repent) loomed four wide on the far turn, Velasquez was forced to show his cards. He went to the whip and he had nothing.

After the race, the live TV coverage picked up War Pass' owner Robert LaPenta saying that the horse had spiked a fever earlier in the week. He was as dumbfounded as anyone over War Pass' performance, and without the benefit of reflection, raised the issue of a fever.

In the days after the Tampa Bay Derby, trainer Nick Zito and LaPenta himself vehemently denied that War Pass had a fever or even a temperature above normal. Their veterinarians thoroughly checked out War Pass after the race and came up with nothing. Zito kept open the possibility of still running in the Wood Memorial (G1) on April 5 at Aqueduct."

(War Pass did run in the Wood, and finished second beaten 1/2 length in what turned out to be the final start of his career. He was retired after sustaining a fractured sesamoid in his left front ankle.)