Rain keeps Santa Anita closed for training

[gm10]

Interesting.

'Santa Anita’s main track was closed for training for the second consecutive day on Sunday, with the likelihood of further days of cancellations early in the week because of continued wet weather, track president George Haines said.'

http://drf.com/news/rain-keeps-santa-anita-closed-training

[Tom]

Fasten your seat belts....deja vous all over again?
Damn that Albert Hammond anyways!

[andymays]

There have been more cancellations of live race cards in the last four years than there have been in decades of racing prior to the synthetic era. The dirt surface at Santa Anita is new and they're being cautious and that's smart. They have a training track in the middle of the track that they're galloping on. Guess what? It's dirt.

[andymays]

http://www.drf.com/news/rain-keeps-santa-anita-closed-training

Excerpt:

Darrell Vienna, the Southern California vice-president of the California Thoroughbred Trainers, said he did not notice any major damage to the track on Sunday morning.

“I didn’t see any washouts or any rivulets,” he said. “It looks like it’s sealed.”

Vienna said Arcadia, Calif., where Santa Anita is located, gets approximately 17 to 18 inches of rain a year. The current rainstorm, from Friday through Wednesday, may drop as much as 10 inches, he said.

------------------------------------------------

Besides that what do you think would have happened with the Pro Ride that couldn't drain? And the Hollywood Park wonderful surface that couldn't drain yesterday in spots?

[andymays]

Fasten your seat belts....deja vous all over again?
Damn that Albert Hammond anyways!
YouTube - Albert Hammond -

It Never Rains In Southern California

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyC7WnvLT4

[BluegrassProf]

Interesting.

'Santa Anita’s main track was closed for training for the second consecutive day on Sunday, with the likelihood of further days of cancellations early in the week because of continued wet weather, track president George Haines said.'

http://drf.com/news/rain-keeps-santa-anita-closed-trainingPlenty of friends there. And lots & lots of rain.

It's not "interesting;" it's prudent, and just completely normal. :D

Thank goodness dirt's rarely sold as some sort of preposterous "all-weather" surface. Perhaps consider picking your battles lest you start reaching.

[DJofSD]

The heaviest rainfall from this current series of fronts is expected on Wednesday. Lots and lots of rain (at least for us on the left coast) along with thunder and lightening is predicted.

[gm10]

Plenty of friends there. And lots & lots of rain.

It's not "interesting;" it's prudent, and just completely normal. :D

Thank goodness dirt's rarely sold as some sort of preposterous "all-weather" surface. Perhaps consider picking your battles lest you start reaching.

No need to over analyze and look for a battle here, professor. It will be interesting to see how the surface will react, and how the horsemen will react, that's all.

[andymays]

No need to over analyze and look for a battle here, professor. It will be interesting to see how the surface will react, and how the horsemen will react, that's all.

The surface and the Horsemen will react the same as they reacted for decades prior to 2008. Not one trainer has criticized the surface yet.

[gm10]

The surface and the Horsemen will react the same as they reacted for decades prior to 2008. Not one trainer has criticized the surface yet.

We'll see how it goes.

[andymays]

We'll see how it goes.

It will go like it always has gone. The difference is that they have a new surface with a new base. The old base was more than 50 years old I believe.

[gm10]

It will go like it always has gone. The difference is that they have a new surface with a new base. The old base was more than 50 years old I believe.

The track base has really become the new buzzword hasn't it.

[andymays]

The track base has really become the new buzzword hasn't it.

Most people agree that the base should be replaced about every 20 years.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Let's see - expensive synthetic hi tech cushion instead of real, ordinary dirt, expensive bottled water (for people, not the racing surface!) vs tap water. Oh yeah, artificial/augmented boobs instead of natural...what else?

[FenceBored]

Let's see - expensive synthetic hi tech cushion instead of real, ordinary dirt, expensive bottled water (for people, not the racing surface!) vs tap water. Oh yeah, artificial/augmented boobs instead of natural...what else?

Less filling vs tastes great.

[DJofSD]

James J. Kilpatrick and Shana Alexander.

[andymays]

Let's see - expensive synthetic hi tech cushion instead of real, ordinary dirt, expensive bottled water (for people, not the racing surface!) vs tap water. Oh yeah, artificial/augmented boobs instead of natural...what else?

Women with fake boobs aren't offensive to me. There are probably more of them at Del Mar on opening day than anywhere else in the world. I'm Ok with the rest of your examples.

[gm10]

Let's see - expensive synthetic hi tech cushion instead of real, ordinary dirt, expensive bottled water (for people, not the racing surface!) vs tap water. Oh yeah, artificial/augmented boobs instead of natural...what else?

Computer to do your stats or a pencil and a piece of paper?

[horses4courses]

One of the main reasons that SA went from dirt to synthetic, was cancellations due to unsafe racing conditions.
Of course, that backfired.

It will be interesting, though, to see if the new dirt surface can drain any better than those before it.

[andymays]

One of the main reasons that SA went from dirt to synthetic, was cancellations due to unsafe racing conditions.
Of course, that backfired.

It will be interesting, though, to see if the new dirt surface can drain any better than those before it.

The bulk of the water is supposed to run off the track and unlike synthetics not soak through it. I don't mind betting when the track is sloppy.

[horses4courses]

The bulk of the water is supposed to run off the track and unlike synthetics not soak through it. I don't mind betting when the track is sloppy.

Agreed.
I have had some nice scores on off-tracks.
I just hope they don't lose racing days because they can't get it right.

[anotherCAfan]

I just hope they don't lose racing days because they can't get it right.
I agree.


The rain hopefully will stop on Thursday. We are getting all the rain we were projected to receive in a span of four or five days. There might even be rain on Opening Day as well--I hope not!

[BlueShoe]

Unsure of this, but after yesterdays cancelation have to wonder if Hollypark is also closed to training. If so, then with both SA and HOL closed, that would mean that many horses will miss their final work before starting at SA. There is flooding, mudslides, and other problems all over SoCal, and the storms are expected to continue until Wednesday. Forecasts are for clearing on Thursday thru Saturday with a chance of showers returning on Sunday, opening day. If no rain after Wednesday the new main should be fast, but the turf course could be a different story. Getting absolutely drenched, it could be, at best, good on Sunday, or perhaps even yielding. Whatever the situation on the 26th, we all are certainly going to have some handicapping challenges, to put it lightly.

[gm10]

The bulk of the water is supposed to run off the track and unlike synthetics not soak through it. I don't mind betting when the track is sloppy.

There's nothing I hate more than a sloppy track. It's pointless to handicap when it's sloppy - the results are a lot more random and even if you find an established mud-lover that runs well, he will be way overbet.

[andymays]

There's nothing I hate more than a sloppy track.

That's probably why I like a sloppy track.

[DJofSD]

That's probably why I like a sloppy track.
Ditto.

Back in the good old days when men were men and horses ran over a real dirt surface, I learned to love it when they sealed the track.

[gm10]

That's probably why I like a sloppy track.

I've never met a handicapper before who likes randomness, you truly are one of a kind :ThmbUp: .

[andymays]

Ditto.

Back in the good old days when men were men and horses ran over a real dirt surface, I learned to love it when they sealed the track.

Yep. :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

I've never met a handicapper before who likes randomness, you truly are one of a kind :ThmbUp: .

You forgot to add DJofSD.

[andymays]

Santa Anita reopens main track for training | Daily Racing Form

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-reopens-main-track-training

[gm10]

You forgot to add DJofSD.

One day, you have to tell me why you like wet dirt.

[Stillriledup]

I've never met a handicapper before who likes randomness, you truly are one of a kind :ThmbUp: .


Very good book about Randomness, i recommend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fooled_by_Randomness

[andymays]

One day, you have to tell me why you like wet dirt.

Probably the same reason you might like wet turf in Europe.

[gm10]

Probably the same reason you might like wet turf in Europe.

That would mean that there is an Andy Mays in Europe as well. If there is, I bet he wears a beret.

[gm10]

Very good book about Randomness, i recommend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fooled_by_Randomness

'The book's name, Fooled by Randomness, has also become an idiom in English used to describe when someone sees a pattern where there is just random noise.'

I like it :)

[andymays]

That would mean that there is an Andy Mays in Europe as well. If there is, I bet he wears a beret.
There's only one andymays. ;) Most people hope it stays that way. :lol:

[DJofSD]

I've never met a handicapper before who likes randomness, you truly are one of a kind :ThmbUp: .
There wasn't anything random about it. Plus, if you knew what kind of foot configuration to look for, it would help a great deal finding runners to eliminate and which ones to consider.

[DJofSD]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/new-flood-warnings-as-rains-pound-region-prompting-evacuation-in-kern-county-town-.html

[andymays]

New Santa Anita Dirt Handles Record Rainfall | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60416/new-santa-anita-dirt-handles-record-rainfall

Excerpt:

Added Santa Anita President George Haines: “Right now, we’re very surprised the track is as good as it is, after six inches of rain. We’re happy. We’re going to prepare it again for a big rain tonight. It looks like we’re going to get another two inches. I think generally the horsemen have been able to use the main track and exercise their horses, and they’re happy.”


Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60416/new-santa-anita-dirt-handles-record-rainfall#ixzz18i8vKlcV

[Tom]

One day, you have to tell me why you like wet dirt.

Probably the same reason I do........many people don't know how to interpret it. Good prices on a lot of horse when there is water in the track. I've loved sloppy tracks for decades. I just never use pace lines from them on fast tracks.

[horses4courses]

New Santa Anita Dirt Handles Record Rainfall | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60416/new-santa-anita-dirt-handles-record-rainfall

Excerpt:

Added Santa Anita President George Haines: “Right now, we’re very surprised the track is as good as it is, after six inches of rain. We’re happy. We’re going to prepare it again for a big rain tonight. It looks like we’re going to get another two inches. I think generally the horsemen have been able to use the main track and exercise their horses, and they’re happy.”


Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60416/new-santa-anita-dirt-handles-record-rainfall#ixzz18i8vKlcV

Excellent news!
It seems that Tedesco is the best in the business in So. Cal.
He received a lot of praise for his work at Del Mar this summer.
Definitely had a mountain to climb there, too, and did very well.

[gm10]

Probably the same reason I do........many people don't know how to interpret it. Good prices on a lot of horse when there is water in the track. I've loved sloppy tracks for decades. I just never use pace lines from them on fast tracks.

Which factors do you look at? I've got a model with a lot of factors (including pace scenario's for each going, each horse's going preference, etc), and whichever set of races I look at, wet surfaces are always less predictable. The most predictable races are dry dirt and all-weather, then firm turf. Either I should be looking at specific factors, or you guys are fooled by randomness.

[andymays]

Which factors do you look at? I've got a model with a lot of factors (including pace scenario's for each going, each horse's going preference, etc), and whichever set of races I look at, wet surfaces are always less predictable. The most predictable races are dry dirt and all-weather, then firm turf. Either I should be looking at specific factors, or you guys are fooled by randomness.

The short explanation is that it's an "old school" thing.

[Shelby]

I kind of like a sloppy track. It helps me handicap. The only downside, for me, is all of the scratches that usually occur.

[Tom]

Which factors do you look at? I've got a model with a lot of factors (including pace scenario's for each going, each horse's going preference, etc), and whichever set of races I look at, wet surfaces are always less predictable. The most predictable races are dry dirt and all-weather, then firm turf. Either I should be looking at specific factors, or you guys are fooled by randomness.

Breeding, jockey ability on off tracks, trainer records on off tracks, and horse past races on off tracks, plus knowing things like sloppy at Belmont is not the same as sloppy at Saratoga. Throw in track profiles and you can get a handle on a lot of races. Many just have to be passed when you don't know enough.
I like to back and look at replays to see what the track really looked like because reporting of degrees of wet are pretty bad.

[Southieboy]

Santa Anita’s new racing surface has sustained more than nine inches of rain from Friday through dawn on Tuesday, leading to the cancellation of main track training on Tuesday for the third time in four days.

With further rain expected through Wednesday, the rain total from a series of Pacific storms is likely to reach 11 or 12 inches, according to track superintendent Richard Tedesco, who closely monitors the weather.

http://drf.com/news/santa-anita-track-closed-training-again-should-be-ready-opening-day

[elhelmete]

I'm 25 miles from SA and I'm told to expect 5-10 inches of rain between Tuesday noon and Wednesday evening.

[DJofSD]

At one time, this was called the pineapple express: http://www.goes.noaa.gov/browsw.html (NOAA satellite observations West CONUS infrared). Pineapple express meaning that long length of clouds stretches all the way to the Hawaiian islands. The track is a result of the jetstream and the moisture is on a train with the station being southern CA.

We really, really, really do need the water but not all at once!

[gm10]

Breeding, jockey ability on off tracks, trainer records on off tracks, and horse past races on off tracks, plus knowing things like sloppy at Belmont is not the same as sloppy at Saratoga. Throw in track profiles and you can get a handle on a lot of races. Many just have to be passed when you don't know enough.
I like to back and look at replays to see what the track really looked like because reporting of degrees of wet are pretty bad.

OK thx. I use all the factors you mention except for breeding. Agree about having to watch the races.

[rubicon55]

Anybody know if the rain will affect opening day for SA on Dec 26?

[DJofSD]

It will be a miracle if the tracks were listed as fast/firm on Sunday.

[andymays]

Anybody know if the rain will affect opening day for SA on Dec 26?
If they're smart, and that's a stretch they will card everything on the main track. The weather and the ADW disputes may hurt them and the handle in a big way. Not to mention players who will not play from the get go because of the pending raise in takeout. The takeout goes up on January 1st.

[BlueShoe]

Anybody know if the rain will affect opening day for SA on Dec 26?
We really do not know at this point. There are flash flood warnings all over California and heavy rains are expected to continue until tonight. If the weather clears up on Thursday, and if it stays that way until Sunday, and if the new track drains okay, could see a fast track on the 26th. Lots of ifs. Turf course likely a different thing. Good or perhaps yielding in store. The thing is, there is another fly in the ointment. According to the Weather Channel, there is a fair chance of more showers on Sunday. If so, ??.

[DJofSD]

Maybe there will be more rain in SoCal on Sunday. Maybe.

NOAA forecast shows a weak cold front approaching the west coast on Sunday with it passing though SoCal on Monday. There is a low pressure system behind that but looking out 6 days shows the prediction of it breaking down while a high pressure ridge forms over northern CA.

[Spalding No!]

If they're smart, and that's a stretch they will card everything on the main track.

This sort of possibility is one of the gripes I have with Santa Anita putting 4 stakes on the opening day card. For years it was simply the Malibu as the feature race. Now they are wedging in the La Brea, CA Breeder's, and the relatively new Sir Beaufort. Before, these races would serve as the feature race for subsequent days (you know, so that the regular--ie returning--fan had something to look forward to every racing day).

But instead, they'd rather just blow their wad on one single day. An idea that probably originates from the Breeder's Cup concept. Concentrate all your assets in little islands (along with Big Cap Day and Santa Anita Derby Day and Sunshine Millions Day) and resign to leave the rest of the racing dates as typical 8-race, 6-horse field snoozefests. At least they have carved sandwiches in the grandstand everyday (for $7.50---actually I'd rather cough up that amount for the sandwich than the Daily Racing Form on most days).

Now with the weather, we have the 8f Sir Beaufort for 3yos likely to be run on the main track. Well that's just great because the Malibu is also restricted to 3yos and is run at 7f.

Let the cross-entering begin.

[Badactor]

http://www.santaanita.com/sites/all/themes/santaanitatheme/images/logo.png http://www.santaanita.com/content/workout-webcam

[BlueShoe]

This sort of possibility is one of the gripes I have with Santa Anita putting 4 stakes on the opening day card. For years it was simply the Malibu as the feature race. Now they are wedging in the La Brea, CA Breeder's, and the relatively new Sir Beaufort. Before, these races would serve as the feature race for subsequent days (you know, so that the regular--ie returning--fan had something to look forward to every racing day).
For years the opening day feature was the 6f Palos Verdes for older males. Now it is run in late January. The Malibu was run later as part of the 4yr. old colt series; Malibu, San Fernando, once 1 1/8 now 1 1/16, Maturity (now Strub), once 1 1/4, now 1 /1/8. Certainly concur with spreading out the stakes schedule over many different days. Have a strong dislike of bunching several stakes into just a few so called big days.

[Spalding No!]

For years the opening day feature was the 6f Palos Verdes for older males. Now it is run in late January. The Malibu was run later as part of the 4yr. old colt series; Malibu, San Fernando, once 1 1/8 now 1 1/16, Maturity (now Strub), once 1 1/4, now 1 /1/8. Certainly concur with spreading out the stakes schedule over many different days. Have a strong dislike of bunching several stakes into just a few so called big days.

I when I started going, I think the Palos Verdes was 2 or 3 days into the meet. Saw Sunny Blossom break the 6f track record in that. As you probably remember, it was open to all ages, including 2yos. I think it was even meant to be the starting point of the Big Cap series (didn't Ack Ack sweep most of it?) of stakes starting at 6f and leading to the 10f Santa Anita Handicap.

[droppingdemdimes]

The Sir Beaufort has been run 9 times, and each time it was as a supporting feature on opening day. So it was never the feature on another day.

(I hope) the only reason they are running the La Brea on opening day is more of a function of the calendar. Since opening day is a Sunday, this leads to a log jam. If you wanted to keep the La Brea on a weekend, it needs to be run opening day or next weekend. Lately, they have been running the Santa Margarita the weekend after the Big Cap. If you start counting backwards on the calendar, having the La Brea on January 1st means that there is 3 weeks between that race and the El Encino, and then 3 weeks between El Encino and the La Canada. Since the "point" (:rolleyes:) of the La Canada series is to assimilate 3yos into the elders, it would be "counterproductive" (:rolleyes:) to do that before they faced elders in the Santa Margarita.

So that is why the La Brea is on opening day IMHO.

P.S. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach that this is how racing is, where horses can't be bothered to run back in three weeks twice in a row. YUCK! I as well can't stand the grouping of stakes for those "big days".

[Spalding No!]

The Sir Beaufort has been run 9 times, and each time it was as a supporting feature on opening day. So it was never the feature on another day.

Yeah, I mentioned it was relatively new, but now that its achieved graded status, it certainly can be spotted as a stand-alone feature, especially if its going to compete for horses in the Malibu (Monterey Jazz, Orientate, Sidney's Candy--to name but 3). Maybe they should change it to 9f on the grass.

(I hope) the only reason they are running the La Brea on opening day is more of a function of the calendar. Since opening day is a Sunday, this leads to a log jam. If you wanted to keep the La Brea on a weekend, it needs to be run opening day or next weekend. Lately, they have been running the Santa Margarita the weekend after the Big Cap. If you start counting backwards on the calendar, having the La Brea on January 1st means that there is 3 weeks between that race and the El Encino, and then 3 weeks between El Encino and the La Canada. Since the "point" (:rolleyes:) of the La Canada series is to assimilate 3yos into the elders, it would be "counterproductive" (:rolleyes:) to do that before they faced elders in the Santa Margarita.

I believe they ran the La Brea opening day last year as well. I don't think they need to keep the race on a weekend necessarily. The Malibu often falls on a weekday.

The La Brea was traditionally run late December, the El Encino mid-January, and the La Canada early February. The Santa Margarita was usually late February (which allowed for a rare female starting--Bayakoa in '90--in the Big Cap). Not sure why managment no longer respects the "series" aspects to their stakes schedule (not just for new 4yos, but also for the 3yos as well).

I suspect that the ridiculous and utterly pointless Sunshine Millions is the main monkey-wrench seizing up the works.

[DJofSD]

Last time I check, the Malibu was alway contested on opening day, regardless of what day of the week that happens to fall on. It's the opening race in a series of three known as the Strub stakes for four year olds.

[anotherCAfan]

The massive rain appears to have finally left Southern California. I hope it is bright and sunny for opening day at Santa Anita.


Here is the Del Mar auxiliary parking lot:
http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i348/tehphotobucket/DelMar.jpg


I wish the rain would have washed away the polytrack.

[BlueShoe]

After checking 4 sources, the consensus forecast at miday Thursday is for increasing clouds on Saturday night with a 30-50% chance of showers on Sunday. So, just 72 hours out we can still only speculate as to track conditions and the new dirt track. Turf? The Sir Beaufort could come off and go on the main, so will not look at it until know for sure, scratches, etc.

[DJofSD]

My predictions for Sunday: turf off, no rain during the card.

[anotherCAfan]

Weather update:


Huge rain cell west of LA, currently hitting Santa Barbara with red on the radar.

Hopefully the rain lets up tomorrow, but I know it will hit tonight.




Merry Christmas to all at Pace Advantage!

[andymays]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/dec/24/horses-race-new-dirt-track-santa-anita/

Excerpt:

“The rain has slowed us up, but the track, it’s like the old days, like the ’50s and ’60s,” said veteran trainer Bruce Headley, an outspoken critic of synthetic tracks. “Horses evolved on dirt, and this is what they’re supposed to race on. That synthetic stuff is a midsummer night’s dream from the University of Mars.”

Headley’s daughter, Karen, who assists him in training, also rides horses daily. She sees a huge difference riding on dirt as opposed to synthetics.

“It’s the difference between square wheels and round wheels,” Karen Headley said. “When you ride a horse on synthetics, it’s like riding on square wheels. When you ride on dirt, it’s a smooth, flowing forward ride, rather than a jarring ride.”

[Southieboy]

Off The Turf!

[andymays]

Off The Turf!

Just heard that.

[joanied]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/dec/24/horses-race-new-dirt-track-santa-anita/

Excerpt:

“The rain has slowed us up, but the track, it’s like the old days, like the ’50s and ’60s,” said veteran trainer Bruce Headley, an outspoken critic of synthetic tracks. “Horses evolved on dirt, and this is what they’re supposed to race on. That synthetic stuff is a midsummer night’s dream from the University of Mars.”

Headley’s daughter, Karen, who assists him in training, also rides horses daily. She sees a huge difference riding on dirt as opposed to synthetics.

“It’s the difference between square wheels and round wheels,” Karen Headley said. “When you ride a horse on synthetics, it’s like riding on square wheels. When you ride on dirt, it’s a smooth, flowing forward ride, rather than a jarring ride.”

This is like an extra Christmas present...bet the only regret SA has is not going back to dirt sooner...
that SA's dirt has had to face this sort of test so soon after it's been put in place, and has passed with flyin' colors is awesome:ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

twirling candy just broke spectacular bid's 7F record, 1.19.74

:facepalm: