Gulfstream Making Betting More Affordable

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60382/gulfstream-making-betting-more-affordable

Excerpt:

Gulfstream Park on Dec. 16 announced its 2011 wagering menu that will include its first Pick 5, with a 50 cent minimum bet, and a major reduction of its Pick 6 minimum bet from $2 to 10 cents.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60382/gulfstream-making-betting-more-affordable#ixzz18KX3AhIF

[Saratoga_Mike]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60382/gulfstream-making-betting-more-affordable

Excerpt:

Gulfstream Park on Dec. 16 announced its 2011 wagering menu that will include its first Pick 5, with a 50 cent minimum bet, and a major reduction of its Pick 6 minimum bet from $2 to 10 cents.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60382/gulfstream-making-betting-more-affordable#ixzz18KX3AhIF

The Pick 6 is all about the carryover, so in general I don't like the idea of a 10 cent increment given it greatly reduces that possiblity. You only put in place a 10 cent Pick 6 if the bet hasn't been attracting any real money over time. Perhaps that's the case here - need to check.

[BMeadow]

They have changed it from a Pick 6 to a Jackpot Pick 6, which is a completely different bet. After the takeout is subtracted, only 60% of the money bet that day is distributed to those with six winners. The other 40% goes into a jackpot pool, to be distributed to anyone who is the only winner of the pick 6.

They actually passed a similar bill a number of years ago in California because one new commissioner wanted it, but everybody--track owners and bettors alike, in a rare show of unanimity--were aghast that it would completely kill the pick 6.

Good luck with this bet for Gulfstream, home of gambling genius Frank Stronach.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

The new GP pick-6 is the dime version of the Beulah 25 cent fortune 6.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The new GP pick-6 is the dime version of the Beulah 25 cent fortune 6.

Got it - seemed to garner a lot of interest at BEH.

[Igeteven]

Gulfstream Announces 2011 Wagering Menu

12/16/2010

Record Low Takeouts, New Wagers To Welcome Fans

HALLANDALE BEACH – Gulfstream Park Racing & Casino announced today a wagering menu for its 2011 thoroughbred meet beginning Jan. 5 that includes:
• A 50 cent Pick-5 with a record low 15 percent takeout.
• Low takeout rates on Bet-3 and 50 cent Pick-4 wagers of only 20 percent.
• An early and late 50 cent Pick-4.
• A 10 cent Pick-6.
• Rolling Daily Doubles, Superfecta’s and Bet-3’s.
Win, Place, Show, Daily Double, Exacta and Trifecta wagers will be a $1 minimum wager.

“We’re optimistic and excited about the new wagers we’re introducing and the fact Gulfstream will be offering many of the lowest takeouts in the country,” said Steve Calabro, President and GM of Gulfstream Park. “We think the Pick-5, Pick-4’s and 10 cent Pick-6 creates more opportunities for our fans.

“This is just part of our commitment to our customers. Those attending Gulfstream this year will also notice nearly a 50 percent increase in our self-service betting terminals.”

Gulfstream will start each day with a 12:55 p.m., first race post time. The early Pick-4 will begin with the second race while the late Pick-4 will be on the last four races. The Pick-5 will be on the day’s last five races and the Pick-6 on the day’s last six. The Pick-5, Pick-4 and Pick-6 wagers will be accepted only at self-service terminals.

The 10 cent Pick-6 will be awarded to one unique ticket. On days there are multiple winners, 60 percent of the pool will be shared equally while 40 percent goes back into the jackpot. Click here to see the wagering and takeouts.

Gulfstream will celebrate the 60th anniversary of the $1 million Florida Derby April 3 with a record 33 graded stakes races and more than $30 million in overall purses.

Gulfstream Park Racing & Casino is a multi-use entertainment facility and the premier destination of its kind in South Florida. Recognized for its world-class thoroughbred racing, Gulfstream Park is also home to more than 850 slot machines, high-stakes, no-limit poker, and the finest restaurants and shops at The Village at Gulfstream Park. Gulfstream’s world-championship, 2011 thoroughbred meet will run from Jan. 5 through April 24. For further information contact David.Joseph@gulfstreampark.com, or call 954.457.6451.

[jelly]

I like this one.


A 50 cent Pick-5 with a record low 15 percent takeout.

[The_Knight_Sky]

“We’re optimistic and excited about the new wagers we’re introducing and the fact Gulfstream will be offering many of the lowest takeouts in the country,” said Steve Calabro, President and GM of Gulfstream Park. “We think the Pick-5, Pick-4’s and 10 cent Pick-6 creates more opportunities for our fans.




Boy this is some war. :ThmbDown:

What about the civilian casualties?
You know - those spot players like me who play almost exclusively the exactas and trifectas?

Is it too much to ask for racetracks to lower the takeout rates for individual races?

I refuse to be bogged down handicapping Pick 4's and Pick 5's and be forced to play races where I may not have an opinion on; on races where I have not prepared for. As much as I like Gulfstream Park's product, the spot players
have been left hung out to dry - again.

[Dahoss9698]

I like this one.


A 50 cent Pick-5 with a record low 15 percent takeout.

I like that one as well and plan on playing it a lot. Not crazy about a dime pick 6 though.

[Cardus]

I am not a Pick 6 player, but I oppose the dime base.

I believe in keeping the whales happy, and I cannot believe that they are happy about this reduction.

[tbwinner]

I like the 50-cent Pick 5 with the very low (comparative, could be lower) takeout.

However this 10-cent Pick6 is a bad idea. Sure it may help handle (a little?)...but the Pick6 should be left to the heavy bettors and horseplayers. Eliminates the carryover idea too.

I like lower minimums, like in the Pick4s/5s, as well as the trifecta and 10-cent supers are good, but this may be going a bit too far.

[JustRalph]

I saw an ad today for Portland meadows pick 4 being the lowest in the game. Now this stuff,.........amazing how these tracks are starting to advertise their "low takeout" I wonder where that idea comes from ??????

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I don't see any reductions. They already had a 15% takeout on the pick 6. They are introducing a pick 5 though at 15%.
Their takeouts are definitely on the low side, and it would be nice to see them trend down even lower.

[Stillriledup]

Not only is the 10 cent pick 6 ridiculous, but who's going to want part of THEIR money withheld for a 'jackpot' carryover? I mean, whenever you play this thing its most likely going to end up having 40% of the total pot consifcated for future use.

I'm also not sure how a 10 cent bet is ever going to produce only one winner. I guess there's some method to the madness, i just don't see it.

The takeout for this bet is really 55%?? unless YOU are the only winner. Is my math correct?

[lamboguy]

this is another joke that the genius's of racing came up with. why stop at .10, go all the way down to a penny to see how much more business they can lose. all this move does is cheapen the game.

god forbid they come up with a plan to build this sport, like some type of proposal to eliminate taxes all together that players have to dish out when they are lucky and win the stupid bet. at the same time they should lower their own paychecks, because whatever they get paid is to much.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

The p-6 bet is a horseplayer killer.

49% takeout for the avg. horseplayer.

This will be fun if the c/o gets high enough.

10 cent minimum with a big c/o payout only if a solo winner.....it will get ugly.

99% of the tickets being bet will be paying 49% takeout with no chance to win the jackpot.

Gulfstream will be laughing their asses off if there is a big c/o for a couple weeks or more. Other tracks getting killed as there will be no churn on their player's money....horseplayers getting killed as they keep playing into 49% takeout and draining their accounts.....At the end of the massacre, you'll have one whale get all the money and thousands of loyal horseplayers floating dead in the ocean.

[Light]

The 10 cent Pk6 is not as dumb as it sounds. Back in May,Beulah's 25 cent Pk6 swelled to $1,143,114.94. I wouldn't call that dumb because neither Beulah nor GP would ever get that kind of action with a $2 pk6.

Beyer agrees: Beulah Park: Attractive betting product pays off for Ohio track

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050402499.html

[InsideThePylons-MW]

The 10 cent Pk6 is not as dumb as it sounds. Back in May,Beulah's 25 cent Pk6 swelled to $1,143,114.94. I wouldn't call that dumb because neither Beulah nor GP would ever get that kind of action with a $2 pk6.

Beyer agrees: Beulah Park: Attractive betting product pays off for Ohio track

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050402499.html

that was a mandatory payout day

700K was bet into a 445K c'o.

So 700K was bet at 22.5% takeout which equals 542.5K returned and add in 445K so total returned was 987.5K which equal a takeout of +41% on the money bet that day.

What about the bettors who paid 73% takeout on their bets to build the c/o pool for that day?

Is it OK for a track to slaughter it's loyal players for months to build a c/o pool so they can flush it to the once a year bettors who come in on the mandatory payout day when the track is giving away the money it heisted from it's core bettors?

As you and Beyer suggest, it might be good for Beulah, but it is horrendous overall for racing, other tracks and the vast majority of horseplayers.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

that was a mandatory payout day

700K was bet into a 445K c'o.

So 700K was bet at 22.5% takeout which equals 542.5K returned and add in 445K so total returned was 987.5K which equal a takeout of +41% on the money bet that day.

What about the bettors who paid 73% takeout on their bets to build the c/o pool for that day?

Is it OK for a track to slaughter it's loyal players for months to build a c/o pool so they can flush it to the once a year bettors who come in on the mandatory payout day when the track is giving away the money it heisted from it's core bettors?

As you and Beyer suggest, it might be good for Beulah, but it is horrendous overall for racing, other tracks and the vast majority of horseplayers.
Isn't this a problem with all Pick 6's especially where big pools are built like California and New York?

I see this as being a little better actually, because the pools have a chance to become gigantic enough to attract some lottery players to horse racing. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic.

[Pcon04]

no one bets the pick 6 there for any $$
carryovers are 2,000. why bother!!!
these .10 bets will clog up the windows even more.
especially places that don't have many sam machines.

pcon

[Saratoga_Mike]

that was a mandatory payout day

700K was bet into a 445K c'o.

So 700K was bet at 22.5% takeout which equals 542.5K returned and add in 445K so total returned was 987.5K which equal a takeout of +41% on the money bet that day.
.

If $700k was bet and the takeout was 22.5%, that would equal $158k. The carryover was $445k (there's no takeout on that--it was addressed the previous day). So if I bet into the big carryover pool and it's hit, why isn't the effective takeout 13.8% ($158k divided by [$700k+$445k])? Lower effecitve takeout is one of the main benefits of betting Pick Sixs on big carryover days, right?

[Southieboy]

Who wants to bet that many tracks don't offer this wager?

[Vinman]

I agree with those who object to the concept of having 40% of each day's GP Pick 6 pool withheld for a "future jackpot payoff". The solution is to simply ignore this wager until closing day, when they have to pay out the entire pool. Then jump in with both feet. In the meantime, the 50 cent Pick 5 is available each day at a 15% takeout.

IMHO, the Dime Pick 6 / 50 cent Pick 5 tandem at Gulfstream is a major step forward from the Magna 5, which was a $2.00 minimum when they first rolled it out. With these two new wagers, there is no longer the need to handicap races at 3 different tracks, as was the case with the Magna 5.

Does anyone recall what kind of payoffs Beulah's 25 cent Fortune 6 produced on days when there was only one winning ticket? Did anyone manage to hit this wager prior to closing day?

Vinman

[Vinman]

There's a press release on the Beulah Park website saying that there have been two large payouts on the Fortune 6 since they introduced the wager in January of '06. There was a payoff of $179,072.40 on 3/21/06, obviously not a mandatory closing day payout.

Then on 1/30/07, they set a record Fortune 6 payoff of $364,589.50. On that day, the winning mutuels in the Fortune 6 races were $17.80, $27.40, $19.00, $16.40, $21.60 and $35.20. The lone winning ticket cost $12,250.

So I think I'll stick with the 50 cent Pick 5 : )

Vinman

[Vinman]

I just re-read the Blood-Horse article and while they stated there is a "record low" 15% takeout for the 50 cent Pick 5, there was no takeout figure mentioned for the Dime Pick 6. Anyone know?

Perhaps Frankie's going to wait until Feb. 28th before deciding what the P6 takeout will be? : )


Vinman

[toussaud]

I just re-read the Blood-Horse article and while they stated there is a "record low" 15% takeout for the 50 cent Pick 5, there was no takeout figure mentioned for the Dime Pick 6. Anyone know?

Perhaps Frankie's going to wait until Feb. 28th before deciding what the P6 takeout will be? : )


Vinmanwhen they don't talk about the takeout, you can usually guess why

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Isn't this a problem with all Pick 6's especially where big pools are built like California and New York?

Not even close to being the same.

When someone bets a regular p-6, if they make 6, they get their full share of the pool.

In this jackpot p-6, as soon as 98% of bettors make the bet, they have no chance to win the jackpot because their ticket is automatically tied. So their takeout is immediately 49%-73%.

Also the full payout is distributed to usually many players in a reg p-6 c/o.....where the full payout is distributed to 1 player in the jackpot wager.

[Light]

From what I've read, the takeout is 22.5%.

[Robert Goren]

As with most race track releases, it is much ado about nothing. But what do you expect from a racino?

[rgustafson]

The ten cent pick six is probably worth a try for them to see what kind of handle is generated. The traditional $2 pick six has never been a hit in Florida. I looked at the charts for Jan. 2009 at Gulfstream. The avg. pool was $27,300 with a dailey low of $3,465 and a "peak" of $89,207 after a FIVE day carryover.By contrast, at Santa Anita last January, the avg. pool was over $580,000 with a low of $134,522 and a high of $3,105,014 after a two day carryover. Not saying it is a good bet for the player but it will be interesting to compare pick six handle at Gulfstream this year with the same dates as last year.

[delayjf]

The Pick 6 is all about the carryover

Not sure how this would go over with Pick-six fans, but if they wanted to generate large carryovers more often, they could not pay for 5 of 6 until the carryover exceeds 100k.

[alhattab]

I just re-read the Blood-Horse article and while they stated there is a "record low" 15% takeout for the 50 cent Pick 5, there was no takeout figure mentioned for the Dime Pick 6. Anyone know?

Perhaps Frankie's going to wait until Feb. 28th before deciding what the P6 takeout will be? : )


Vinman

"Record low" for who? Monmouth's Pick 5 take is 15% (Welch's piece in Saturday's DRF is wrong)