HDW

[Valuist]

A couple people answered a few questions of HDW but I still had a few more. Is HDW the real name or only an acronym? I googled it and found some German company. Are you locked into a set monthly payment regardless of the number of race cards you download? And, how is the data formatted? Similar to DRF or BRIS? Thanks is advance.

[Dave Schwartz]

Handicapper's Data Warehouse.

http://www.horsedata.com/

[Valuist]

thanks

[kitts]

HDW data is formatted as required by the software that uses it.

DRF, BRIS, TSN, ITS, HDW-data is data but clean data is HDW in my opinion. Worked there 3 years and have used their data with many software programs.

[VetScratch]

Kitts,

The name HDW implies something I couldn't find... data downloads for handicappers.

Why don't they sell a "superset" download that can be used by handicappers who just want the data?

Their reputation for good quality control and their bulk pricing scheme make HDW attractive, but you have to buy another vendor's product to get the downloads. When I went to the sites for HSH and NetCapper, I couldn't find specifications for the downloads (or extracts from the downloads). Additionally, some folks may not like depending on the business survival of a third party in order to use HDW data.

Who can one talk to at HDW to ask about just buying data?

[LOU M.]

HTR has free software to use with the downloads. Go to www.homebased2.com and click on HTR. HDW can be found at www.horsedata.com

[VetScratch]

Thanks, Lou M.

If I switch to HDW data, I think it would be proper to become a paying HTR customer since they seem to be the only party interested in supporting handicappers who just want HDW data.

[Dave Schwartz]

For the record, we have a number of exports within HSH. And we are writing more custom exports all the time.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[kitts]

HDW contracts with Equibase to provide data for users of specific software that uses HDW formatted data. HTR is a good way to learn more since their software is free. HDW also sells a report that I dearly love called RS/POS but it is a report rather than raw data. The last I heard, Equibase was not selling raw data as such. To find out more information from HDW, give a call to Ron Tiller there. He has been with them from the beginning and knows his stuff.

[RonTiller]

VetScratch,

I don't desire to either advertise or insinuate myself into any of the debates about data providers, but there have been enough questions about HDW that it seems appropriate to provide a few answers and clear up some misperceptions.

HDW got a contract with Equibase about 9 years ago, the second Value Added Reseller (VAR) to get a contract after Trackmaster (I believe). It started off as just Jim Cramer and myself, and for the first 3 or so years, Tom Hambleton and Kitts Anderson also worked at HDW. When we moved to Lexington Ky 5 years ago, Tom came with us but moved back to Las Vegas after a few months, leaving just Jim and me, until Rich Mullikin, formerly of Equibase, came to work here about 4 years ago.

We originally started the company when BRIS's 2 main files were $14 and $7 (no 50 cent files from TSN yet). Our 2 goals were 1) to provide cheaper data for people who download more than a few files a month (we were spending several thousand - THOUSAND - a month for a long time downloading a few tracks from BRIS), by selliing all-you-can-download subscriptions rather than individual files, and 2) to set up a system where software developers get a portion of the download subnscription fees, rather than the data provider getting everything. This is how we sold the idea to Equibase and on this basis we got a contract.

As with the other VARs, we get data feeds from Equibase that allow us to replicate much of their database and we get a large menu of other files that contain entries, scratches, quick results, etc. It is up to us, as VARs, to do something with the data and sell products; we pay Equibase, vendors we work with, and ourselves.

Because we work with software developers and pay them a large percentage of the subscription fees, the files we make are binary, NOT human readable comma delimited files that anybody can download and parse with a publicly available file spec. This business model requires that. I should also note that we work on handshake agreements and any software developer we work with is free to go elsewhere at any time they feel they would be better off elsewhere.

Our service is not for everybody (whose is?). It was really designed for people who download a lot. There is just no point in trying to convince anybody who downloads 7 or 8 files a month that an unlimited download subscription for $100 a month is a great deal; nor would I debate anyone who is happy downloading a hundred 50 cent TSN files for their favorite program or personal database; or 10 Thorograph sheets a day for $120/day; or Jim Quinn's picks at Trackmaster, whatever he charges. There are lots of options in this industry

Will we ever sell individual files for programs we support? Not impossible, but unlikely. We've done the math and we can't make money doing that.

How about comma delimited files, either by subscription or individually, as VetScratch probably wants? I'm not sure the industry needs one more comma delimited file, to compete with the 2 behemoths of the industry, BRIS/TSN and DRF (ITS and TrackMaster also provide comma delimited files). We haven't absolutely ruled out anything like this, but the economics are a big driving force, not to mention that with a 3 person company, I can't send any projects to a product development team, like competitors can - I have to do it myself, and frankly, I'm not very speedy, though I endeavor to be thorough.

I'll be happy to answer any questions about HDW in particular or the data business in general, but I won't turn this into an advertisement or engage in any bashing, either of competitors or critics.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[VetScratch]

Thanks, Ron

I guess not all services operate in such a straighforward manner...<g>I should also note that we work on handshake agreements and any software developer we work with is free to go elsewhere at any time they feel they would be better off elsewhere.

[John]

Ron Your link is," A Class Act"

[VetScratch]

Originally posted by VetScratch
Thanks, Ron
I guess not all services operate in such a straighforward manner...<g> Originally posted by Ron
I should also note that we work on handshake agreements and any software developer we work with is free to go elsewhere at any time they feel they would be better off elsewhere.I hope that no one interpreted my previous post as other than a meaningful compliment. I certainly trust that is how Ron would look at it.<g>

[Alan Wight]

I think it should be clear from the many posts on this board that there is a demand for another results charts comma delimited file supplier if the product includes all of the raw data available from Equibase and at a reasonable price.

How about comma delimited files, either by subscription or individually, as VetScratch probably wants? I'm not sure the industry needs one more comma delimited file, to compete with the 2 behemoths of the industry, BRIS/TSN and DRF (ITS and TrackMaster also provide comma delimited files).
HDW

[JulieKrone]

I think it should be clear from the many posts on this board that there is a demand for another results charts comma delimited file supplier if the product includes all of the raw data available from Equibase and at a reasonable price.

I think with AIO, Netcapper, and HTR you can have HDW data for a half c-note monthly if you don't need unlimited. Maybe you can ask for that deal with their other software?

[ratpack]

HDW contracts with Equibase to provide data for users of specific software that uses HDW formatted data. HTR is a good way to learn more since their software is free. HDW also sells a report that I dearly love called RS/POS but it is a report rather than raw data. The last I heard, Equibase was not selling raw data as such. To find out more information from HDW, give a call to Ron Tiller there. He has been with them from the beginning and knows his stuff.


Yea Kitts, when I just started using that little piece of RS/POS info that gave us a throwaway in All in One #6 in really helped my bottom line. I have not really gotten a handle on that entire report but some people just use that alone.

[Vegas711]

HDW data is formatted as required by the software that uses it.

DRF, BRIS, TSN, ITS, HDW-data is data but clean data is HDW in my opinion. Worked there 3 years and have used their data with many software programs.


I have used I.T.S. data for 3 years now. I never, ever had one problem with the data being unclean.

Give me the date and the track of 1 file that is not clean.

HDW provides no better data than Bris or I.T.S.. They all provide clean, accurate data the ONLY difference is that with Bris and I.T.S. you are not commited to paying $139 a month but rather you have the option of buying your files one at a time.

Until someone can give an exact example of a file which clearly shows that 1 service provides more accurate data than another they shouldn't make statements that they can't back up.

[shanta]

Been a long time user of Trackmaster data. Seems fine to me.

Richie :)

[GaryG]

Richie, I have to tell you that is one beautiful pooch!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Vegas711]

Trackmaster, provides good data as does the daily racing form, to suggest that one data source ( HDW ) expecially when they get the same data from the same source is better, is a bunch of CRAP.

It all comes down to 1 factor do you want to pay .50, 1.00 , 1.50 per file or $139 for unlimited files, that is the bottom line. All levels of service in my opinion are the same, it just comes down to what you want to spend.

[sjk]

For the record, we have a number of exports within HSH. And we are writing more custom exports all the time.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

I have had an excellent experience using data from HSH and HDW. The level of support they have supplied to deal with the few small issues that I have encountered has been excellent.

I went the free route for many years and while that has its advantages there is much to be said for paying a modest amount for getting consistent data and support with much less personal wear and tear.

[shanta]

Richie, I have to tell you that is one beautiful pooch!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


Thanx Gary!

The picture is actually Kianti's father. His name is My Yankee Doodle Dandy. He was World Champion in the breed( American Eskimo). My Kianti is the spittin image of his dad. He had a slight imperfection at birth so he would never be able to have been shown.

My sister in law actually found him in Oklahoma and had him flown here as a baby. Her and my brother actually named him. I think they might have had a little sip of the hooch when doing so :eek: I got him at about 3 months old. He was a little white puff! lol

Now he just turned 9 years old and I find myself asking where did the time go

He loves the cold weather so this time of the year here in NY is his time the summer he suffers a lot

He also is a great "chick magnet" and I need all the help I can get

anyway thanx for mentioning him I dont have any kids so he is like my son :)

All the best Gary
Richie :)

[GaryG]

Yes Richie, anybody that refers to an animal as their child is ok with me! We have an elderly 125 lb. Black German Shepherd/Rottweiler mix. Sweetest animal that ever lived, don't know for sure how old he, showed up in a snowstorm when we lived in Cheyenne in Feb 95. Think he is about 15. Also have a 2 yr old Schnauzer female....keeps him on his toes.

Best,

Gary

[JulieKrone]

I have used I.T.S. data for 3 years now. I never, ever had one problem with the data being unclean.
Give me the date and the track of 1 file that is not clean.
HDW provides no better data than Bris or I.T.S.. They all provide clean, accurate data the ONLY difference is that with Bris and I.T.S. you are not commited to paying $139 a month but rather you have the option of buying your files one at a time.
Until someone can give an exact example of a file which clearly shows that 1 service provides more accurate data than another they shouldn't make statements that they can't back up.

Trackmaster, provides good data as does the daily racing form, to suggest that one data source ( HDW ) expecially when they get the same data from the same source is better, is a bunch of CRAP.

It all comes down to 1 factor do you want to pay .50, 1.00 , 1.50 per file or $139 for unlimited files, that is the bottom line. All levels of service in my opinion are the same, it just comes down to what you want to spend.

Doesn't sound like you've ever laid Each of All the major files side by side and looked at the 'innards', have you? Besides the extras there's also their superior figs & customer service: all such levels I would not rate the same.
It's good to be thrifty, but not to excess.
I also would not ever consider Not downloading All the daily data for all tracks, even if I only played on weekends-- it would bother me to have to bet a race with many unanswered questions(I might as well just play the slots in such a case), or in other words: the more my questions are answered, the more money I'm comfortable investing in it.

Confucius say: Man with one chopstick go hungry.

[Tom]

Trackmaster, provides good data as does the daily racing form, to suggest that one data source ( HDW ) expecially when they get the same data from the same source is better, is a bunch of CRAP.

It all comes down to 1 factor do you want to pay .50, 1.00 , 1.50 per file or $139 for unlimited files, that is the bottom line. All levels of service in my opinion are the same, it just comes down to what you want to spend.

Oh contrare!
I quit using TM because so many of the charts were not usable in the Track Profile program - extra files or something, but way to many were not importable.
HDW is customer oriented and actually has quality control. TM, BRIS, TSN, are basically data whores who sell and run.

[Vegas711]

Trackmaster I have only seen a couple of times. ITS and Bris I have used for 15 years, I never have had a problem . My only point that I was trying to make is that it is INACCURATE to call files from Bris or Postime unclean.If you are going to hint at such you need to post examples where this happened.

[Buckeye]

I like what Julie Krone said about having an interest in ALL the races. (Did it hurt when you knocked Joe Bravo OUT?)
My experience with BRIS was I always wanted to download more rather than less files and thus, I became a GOLD member. Which cost me more by the way. Now I just pay HDW a monthly fee and I'm done with it.

[ratpack]

Trackmaster I have only seen a couple of times. ITS and Bris I have used for 15 years, I never have had a problem . My only point that I was trying to make is that it is INACCURATE to call files from Bris or Postime unclean.If you are going to hint at such you need to post examples where this happened.

I used HDW for a year solid for all track with the All in one #6 and I had a race missing hear and there, the same type of problem I had using BRIS,but I never had a virus or trojan (sorry USC) horse or anything like that with any of the downloads if that is what you mean by unclean

[Sailwolf]

I like what Julie Krone said about having an interest in ALL the races. (Did it hurt when you knocked Joe Bravo OUT?)


When and where was this????????????????:confused:

[Sailwolf]

Yea Kitts, when I just started using that little piece of RS/POS info that gave us a throwaway in All in One #6 in really helped my bottom line. I have not really gotten a handle on that entire report but some people just use that alone






I use the RS/POS allthe time. I need more help on learning the report

[JulieKrone]

I like what Julie Krone said about having an interest in ALL the races. My experience with BRIS was I always wanted to download more rather than less files and thus, I became a GOLD member. Which cost me more by the way. Now I just pay HDW a monthly fee and I'm done with it.
I agree. Here's my take on it, and a non-arrogant or elitist one at that, since I come from a very poor background that colors me thrifty to this day:
(for starters let's leave out hobbyists who have no illusions of winning, doing this only for entertainment).
1. Even if one only plays one or two tracks, how can one not posess all their races? Look up full trip notes, expanded race conditions, etc. for a past race? Even then, does one pass races wth shippers and even local horses who ship out at times?
2. HDW superior figs-- borne out in many studies. If one still wants to settle for other providers', then further, pace handicapping will be incomplete: where are adjusted turn time, fx, tpr, etc.etc. What, you have a program that figures these out, Virginia? Then they're way off, guaranteed. Such a program would have to use the included drf daily track variant(uuggh!) or figure out from the few & incomplete ones in your partial database. So, back to:
3. Square one-- Full database needed, which you can get at HDW: for less than the price of 3 tracks you get them all. And now:
4. With a little work you can generate tr/jk & trk.profile/bias stats in your own specific and detailed manner, rather than the generally useless ones that thousands of Joe Sixpacks see.
5. Whoever is not looking at lots of tracks is bypassing winners & likely betting less stellar choices due to the limited menu.
6. Even those who do not want to manually handicap in lieu of having their program print out sheets-type reports should still avoid the GIGO garbage in & out syndrome: the program will still need a full database & good figures for its calculations. What Virginia, your program already has pre-made formulas & algorythms for each track, surface, distance and race type? Ha, your program was outdated before it was even completed.

I don't see any alternative to HDW, it's insane to want to compete against all others with old, partial and incomplete data. Whether in sports or securities, one will get their behind handed back in a platter.

(Did it hurt when you knocked Joe Bravo OUT?)
I am not she. I disclaimed it in another thread and people just glossed over and kept on posting right below it, like nothing. Further, Mr. Pace Advantage also stated so. I guess it's a tribute to her popularity: sorta like Elvis. The difference is an underscore for her(Julie_Krone).
BTW what goes around comes around: Bravo & all other jerks are getting their just dues to this very day.

[the little guy]

Are you suggesting that Joe Bravo's injuries are his " just dos " or do I misunderstand?

[ratpack]

Are you suggesting that Joe Bravo's injuries are his " just dos " or do I misunderstand?

All I have to say about Joe Bravo is that if you want to make money on him at GS this winter.

1. Look for him on the on FAV on a Turf Route on a deep closer.
2. Bet him for 2nd

[the little guy]

He was badly injured on opening day, breaking a couple vertebrae in his back, so I highly doubt he will be riding at Gulfstream this winter.

[ratpack]

He was badly injured on opening day, breaking a couple vertebrae in his back, so I highly doubt he will be riding at Gulfstream this winter.

Sorry to he any jock or anyone get injured hope it is nothing permeant

[the little guy]

He's been extremely unlucky with injuries. The latest one sounds like a real drag....to say the least.

[speedking]

BTW what goes around comes around: Bravo & all other jerks are getting their just dues to this very day.

Please clarify this statement.

speedking

[Vegas711]

2.. Such a program would have to use the included drf daily track variant(uuggh!) .


Sartin long ago prooved that the DRF variant is a very good estimate of the slowness of the racing strip.

I did my own study on it and found it to be a very good indicator of track speed, the key is in the understanding of how the different ranges for different tracks work. A 35 variant for 1 track may be very slow but not as slow for another.A 12 to 19 variant may not be all that much slower, But a 20 variant maybe a lot more faster than a 27, even though both these situations are a difference of 7.

The other thing is that becouse it gets such a bad rap you get higher mutuels, thus better results.

Also it is not the program that is important, it is how you use it. What works for 1 person may not work for another.

[JulieKrone]

Please clarify this statement.

speedking
In Jersey not only was she not well-received, early on the boys actually tried sending her and horse over the rail, this in addition to other tactics like getting whipped and in the face(what Buckeye alluded to where she got even with him immediately after the race), dumped off the horse.
Nowadays we see many female riders and not give it much thought, but in her early days she was not well-received at every single track she went to: chauvinism was not only obvious and overt, but physical and quite dangerous.
She has my eternal respect: whatever she has attained was not only not handed to her, but just the opposite. And through all the numerous career starts & stops re injuries, she is only two wins away from having been the number one rider at least once at every single major full meet she has ridden. The year she missed the Saratoga title by one win, she actually missed a week of riding.

[JulieKrone]

Sartin long ago prooved that the DRF variant is a very good estimate of the slowness of the racing strip.

I did my own study on it and found it to be a very good indicator of track speed, the key is in the understanding of how the different ranges for different tracks work. A 35 variant for 1 track may be very slow but not as slow for another.A 12 to 19 variant may not be all that much slower, But a 20 variant maybe a lot more faster than a 27, even though both these situations are a difference of 7.

The other thing is that becouse it gets such a bad rap you get higher mutuels, thus better results.

Also it is not the program that is important, it is how you use it. What works for 1 person may not work for another.
Yes, i used that for a while in a couple of programs after Huey Mahl departed. Results were great then, as with pace handicapping mutuels in general. I used to win and place dutch then, until mutuels dropped eventually. How recent ago was your last study?

[speedking]

In Jersey not only was she not well-received, early on the boys actually tried sending her and horse over the rail, this in addition to other tactics like getting whipped and in the face(what Buckeye alluded to where she got even with him immediately after the race), dumped off the horse.
Nowadays we see many female riders and not give it much thought, but in her early days she was not well-received at every single track she went to: chauvinism was not only obvious and overt, but physical and quite dangerous.
She has my eternal respect: whatever she has attained was not only not handed to her, but just the opposite. And through all the numerous career starts & stops re injuries, she is only two wins away from having been the number one rider at least once at every single major full meet she has ridden. The year she missed the Saratoga title by one win, she actually missed a week of riding.

I will not deny that Julie was a talented rider, but how much of the trouble she faced was due to her own attitude and very aggressive riding style? She thought she was a prima donna who expected holes to open for her and threw a tantrum when they didn't. I don't doubt that she faced chauvinism when she broke in, but every apprentice is taught the ropes and goes through a rough learning experience. Julie had a quick temper and knew how to go looking for trouble. Bravo has had periods where he let the local success go to his head and he did act like a jerk at times, but so have most of the other young riders who met early success. Jerry Bailey was one of the biggest a-holes out there when he first came up. To imply, however, that his serious injury is just due for the way he treated Julie is absurd. Krone got away with more rough riding and flagrant fouls on the NJ/NY circuit than anyone else in her timeframe. In 1990 or 91 they held a Julie Krone day at Saratoga. In one race she forced her way out coming off the turn and slammed one horse, knocking him offstride and forcing 2 others way wide. No inquiry, just multiple objections which were ignored. I only remember this because she killed a P6 ticket that paid 65 grand and probably would have paid more without her on it. My point is that she is far from the sweet little innocent angel with the squeaky voice that the PR people love to portray her as. I've known Joe and Julie for many years and for the most part Joe has conducted himself as a gentleman and professional. At least he never pulled a horse up shortly after the wire and quickly jogged back to the unsaddling area and run over to the winning trainer and ask to ride his horse next time, as Julie has done.

Sorry to continue taking this thread off course, but I could not let a statement pass which suggested a serious riding injury is a just reward for past behavior.

speedking

[PaceAdvantage]

Please continue the Julie Krone stuff in a new thread....thanks.

[Vegas711]

Yes, i used that for a while in a couple of programs after Huey Mahl departed. Results were great then, as with pace handicapping mutuels in general. I used to win and place dutch then, until mutuels dropped eventually. How recent ago was your last study?


It was part of some 40,000 hours plus time I spent learning this game in the 90's. During some 8 or 9 years I would study 16 hours a day every day. A lot of the time I would break down programs figure out how they came out with their numbers. None of them are as complex as you might think.There is not a program that can not be broken down and the code figured if you have enough of the printouts even the most advanced. My thought was that if I knew how the program worked I would get into the head of the programmer and it would help my success.

What I learned was that it was not the program itself that was inportant, as long as it was not a bunch of crap, but rather the work you the user put into the preperation time, doing the work outside of the use of the program, understanding what types of races to avoid and then spending a ton of time.
If you think that there is some magical program that you are going to spend an hour a day on and make significant money with you are fooling yourself. Pros spend a ton of hours with their record keeping, they have to. There are no short cuts to being a winning player.The other thing you HAVE to do is Play large dollar amounts unless you want to be making $ 10 per hour, then you might as well get a job.

Becouse I do not feel confortable betting large sums of money per day which is required if you are to make enough money for it to be worth your time, I now spend limited amount of time and play the game more for fun.

[Buckeye]

Fun is a relative term.

I agree with you about betting alot to win alot.

Two things needed are: an edge and the willingness (and ability) to apply it.

[shanta]

What I learned was that it was not the program itself that was inportant, as long as it was not a bunch of crap, but rather the work you the user put into the preperation time, doing the work outside of the use of the program, understanding what types of races to avoid and then spending a ton of time.
If you think that there is some magical program that you are going to spend an hour a day on and make significant money with you are fooling yourself. Pros spend a ton of hours with their record keeping, they have to. There are no short cuts to being a winning player.The other thing you HAVE to do is Play large dollar amounts unless you want to be making $ 10 per hour, then you might as well get a job.



Tremendous post Vegas. It really must be "better in Vegas" :)

Richie

[Sailwolf]

you HAVE to do is Play large dollar amounts unless you want to be making $ 10 per hour, then you might as well get a job.


At least in this context, I get to make the decisions, even if the end result is not what I wanted.

[swetyejohn]

The more I think about it, the more I think that maybe data should be expensive. If everyone has access to good data then it should become harder to win. The harder it is to get good data, the fewer people that will have it. The fewer people with good data means that those in possession of good data and who know how to use it should make excess profits.

So I say, keep it expensive and make it hard to get.

[shanta]

The more I think about it, the more I think that maybe data should be expensive. If everyone has access to good data then it should become harder to win. The harder it is to get good data, the fewer people that will have it. The fewer people with good data means that those in possession of good data and who know how to use it should make excess profits.

So I say, keep it expensive and make it hard to get.


I agree 100%.

Just please keep the "crappy" Trackmaster data at a buck. For those of us that can't afford the "good stuff". :)

Richie

[swetyejohn]

I agree 100%.

Just please keep the "crappy" Trackmaster data at a buck. For those of us that can't afford the "good stuff". :)

Richie


Good point. Make the crappy stuff cheap -- in fact, give it away.

[shanta]

Good point. Make the crappy stuff cheap -- in fact, give it away.

John,

Your ideas are sounding better and better all the time!

Mr. Siegel please pay attention to this very well informed poster.

Thank you
Richie :)

[JimG]

What I learned was that it was not the program itself that was inportant, as long as it was not a bunch of crap, but rather the work you the user put into the preperation time, doing the work outside of the use of the program, understanding what types of races to avoid and then spending a ton of time.


A very well articulated post and mirrors my experience with various commercial software over the years. Whatever program one decides on, knowing the program inside and out through constant usage is key to success with any program.

Jim

[mainardi]

My experiences -- as both a handicapping software developer and data file user -- are noted here:
:) I've been with BRIS since 1992 (or was it 1991?), when the files cost $7 to $14 each. I developed the data file extraction portion of my program from these files. Other than about three corrupted files in about 14 years, the BRIS data has always been clean and accurate!!! :cool:
:) TSN, owned by the same company as BRIS, offers less expensive files, but they lack the DRF Speed Rating & Track Variant (SR/TV). :( Since I wrote an algorithm to modify the SR/TV, I prefer the BRIS files in my own handicapping.
:) Both BRIS and TSN use the same format for many of their other products (BRIS - AOdds/HAT, MultiCaps; TSN - ProCaps), and I support them as well.
:mad: TrackMaster has been nothing but trouble for me as a developer! They don't always honor the "comma-delimited formatting" structure (especially in the race description), and they also put "0" (zero) values in for dates (instead of blanks, which caused the software to crash). As a software developer, it sounds like a copout when you blame the data... but as we say in the business, "garbage in, garbage out"! I've gone so far as to NOT recommend them to my customers.
:ThmbUp: As a developer, I always welcome VALID new versions of the base BRIS format... and I fully understand Dave's point about not being all that interested in [a] taking on the "big boys" and [b] delving into supporting new formats. My software only supports the "comma-delimited single-file" format, and I really haven't had a flood of requests to support any other formats (about twice a year is my guess).

So, there you have it. Besides, it's what you do with the data -- the actual handicapping -- that's the important part. Of course, if the handicapping software stinks, then it doesn't matter how clean the data is... right?!

[Tom]

TrackMaster - my experience exactly - totally unreliable product. :ThmbDown: