Weiner & The Death Tax

[bigmack]

While seemingly a nice enough Irish boy, could a Weiner get any more irksome?

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[johnhannibalsmith]

He's kind of enjoyable to listen to a lot of the time in these little interviews, but that's not the first time that I've seen him come with those theatrics to avoid answering a question - acting like he's being just horribly mistreated when he launches into filibuster mode and pouts his way through the segment to avoid ever getting to the point. Almost funny.

[boxcar]

He's kind of enjoyable to listen to a lot of the time in these little interviews, but that's not the first time that I've seen him come with those theatrics to avoid answering a question - acting like he's being just horribly mistreated when he launches into filibuster mode and pouts his way through the segment to avoid ever getting to the point. Almost funny.

Liberalism is intellectually indefensible; therefore, what can libs do but duck issues, refuse to answer questions directly, refuse to debate, behave like juvenile drama queens, etc., etc.? Or just have a completely honest moment like Rangel did recently, "I don't deal with average Americans"? (This should be adopted by the Democrat Party as its motto!)

Boxcar

[bigmack]

I've known several people that had to quickly sell family businesses and put many people out of work to pony-up the estate tax. They don't give you long to pay it.

Out of 200 countries only 23 have it and we're the third highest rate? This ain't right.

It's not always 'fat cats' that get the shaft on this.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/dtax.png

[riskman]

Get a competent lawyer and accountant who is well versed in estate planning and who is up to date on the current tax laws federal and state.

You want to make sure that your will has your property going to the person(s) you want it to go to at your death and to use all available means to reduce your estate taxes if you have substantial assets. It is too late after you die.

[NJ Stinks]

It's not hard to dig up facts about estate tax.
____________________________________________

The economist Richard Thaler has written some reasons (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/business/economy/07view.html?_r=1) why the estate tax should stay in the U.S. - and this applies to many other countries too. He starts by debunking two misconceptions commonly aired as a reason to junk the estate tax.



"First, it is incorrect to say the estate tax amounts to double taxation. The wealth in many large estates has never been taxed because it is largely in the form of unrealized — therefore untaxed — capital gains. A 2000 study found that for estates worth more than $10 million, unrealized capital gains represented 56 percent of assets. For estates with active farms and businesses, the percentage is much higher. If no estate tax is imposed, capital gains taxes can be avoided indefinitely.



The second myth is that the estate tax somehow threatens family farms — that they would need to be sold if they couldn’t pay the tax. But under the $7 million exemption proposed by the Obama administration, such cases would be exceedingly rare.


What is more, the proposed 45 percent rate is the lowest since 1932, and with the $7 million exemption, only 3 estates in 1,000 would have to pay any tax. And he Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that eliminating the estate tax would cost about $500 billion over the next decade.http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2010/11/some-reasons-not-to-repeal-estate-taxes.html

[Robert Goren]

Best Reason for an estate tax
John E Du Pont
Second best reason for an estate tax
Nelson Rockefeller
I could go on for days

[NJ Stinks]

Or try this simple bit of logic:
________________________________________

The estate tax is a way of acknowledging that the wealthiest families benefit the most from the government's protection of private property, public investments like roads that make commerce possible, and public schools that provide a productive workforce, the stability provided by our legal system and armed forces, and countless other ways the government makes America a place where huge fortunes and be made and sustained. None of this would be possible without taxes, so it is reasonable that the wealthiest families contribute more to support these public services.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/estatetax2010.pdf
____________________________________________

Not for nothing but the same logic can be used to defend the progressive tax system righties here seem to think is unfair.

[bigmack]

Or try this simple bit of logic:
The estate tax is a way of acknowledging that the wealthiest families benefit the most from the government's protection of private property
Oh that's simple alright. So simple it's completely idiotic. Wealthy families 'benefit' from protection of private property. :lol:

As for your other link, that was equally as dense.

Keep digging, maybe you can find what Ezra Klein has to say about it.

[boxcar]

[QUOTE=NJ Stinks]Or try this simple bit of logic:
________________________________________

The estate tax is a way of acknowledging that the wealthiest families benefit the most from the government's protection of private property, public investments like roads that make commerce possible, and public schools that provide a productive workforce, the stability provided by our legal system and armed forces, and countless other ways the government makes America a place where huge fortunes and be made and sustained. None of this would be possible without taxes, so it is reasonable that the wealthiest families contribute more to support these public services.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/estatetax2010.pdf
____________________________________________

Yo, Mr. Wanna-be-Logic, here's something simple for you to digest: Any tax system can do these things, even when those taxes are paid "only" by the living. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. Sounds like Big Gov has a a huge case of greed when they want to tax even the dead. Even those "evil, greedy" corporations haven't found a way to extort money and property from the dead. I believe this makes The U.S government an infinitely more despicable, parasitical entity than anyone in the private sector.

[boxcar]

Or try this simple bit of logic:
________________________________________

The estate tax is a way of acknowledging that the wealthiest families benefit the most from the government's protection of private property, public investments like roads that make commerce possible, and public schools that provide a productive workforce, the stability provided by our legal system and armed forces, and countless other ways the government makes America a place where huge fortunes and be made and sustained. None of this would be possible without taxes, so it is reasonable that the wealthiest families contribute more to support these public services.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/estatetax2010.pdf
____________________________________________

Not for nothing but the same logic can be used to defend the progressive tax system righties here seem to think is unfair.

Two more things about your "simple" logic: Living taxpayers "acknowledge" all their lives what government does with their tax money. Conversely, the dead cannot acknowledge anything. And furthermore, the survivors of the deceased should not penalized for a family member dying nor should they be made to "acknowledge" twice over the services that government has rendered to the citizens, most especially because it is the state who should be indebted to the taxpayers for funding those services to begin with!. Without the collective wealth of its productive citizens, the state itself would be reduced to homeless street beggar status, not knowing from whence its next meal would come.

Stuff this in you hash pipe and puff on it.

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

Here's more food for thought that I'm sure some on the wrong side of this issue will regurgitate. (And if you think Ralph Nader's group made this up, I think we would have heard about all of the lawsuits by now.)
__________________________________________________ _______

April 25, 2006

Public Citizen and United for a Fair Economy Expose Stealth Campaign of Super-Wealthy to Repeal Federal Estate Tax

Report Identifies 18 Families Behind Multimillion-Dollar Deceptive Lobbying Campaign

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The multimillion-dollar lobbying effort to repeal the federal estate tax has been aggressively led by 18 super-wealthy families, according to a report released today by Public Citizen and United for a Fair Economy (http://www.citizen.org/documents/EstateTaxFinal.pdf) at a press conference in Washington, D.C. The report details for the first time the vast money, influence and deceptive marketing techniques behind the rhetoric in the campaign to repeal the tax.


It reveals how 18 families worth a total of $185.5 billion have financed and coordinated a 10-year effort to repeal the estate tax, a move that would collectively net them a windfall of $71.6 billion.


The report profiles the families and their businesses, which include the families behind Wal-Mart, Gallo wine, Campbell’s soup, and Mars Inc., maker of M&Ms. Collectively, the list includes the first- and third-largest privately held companies in the United States, the richest family in Alabama and the world’s largest retailer.


These families have sought to keep their activities anonymous by using associations to represent them and by forming a massive coalition of business and trade associations dedicated to pushing for estate tax repeal. The report details the groups they have hidden behind – the trade associations they have used, the lobbyists they have hired, and the anti-estate tax political action committees, 527s and organizations to which they have donated heavily.

More at the link below:

http://www.serendipit-e.com/blog/2006/04/public_citizen_.html

______________________________________________


Link to the full report from Nader's group:

http://www.citizen.org/documents/EstateTaxFinal.pdf

[Tom]

Want to destroy small businesses?
Tax them to death.

Do you people EVER think about anything other than taking from others?
Aren't ANY of you man or women enough to stand up and EARN your own frigging way?

Bunch of steeking leeches is what you all is.

This is why I favor breaking up the union and ousting the leeches.
Why do we carry deadwood? Too many states, too many anchors.
Make America stronger - break it up and put out the trash.

[GaryG]

This business about taking from the rich has become an obsession in the quest for income and wealth redistribution. The estate tax is evil and has no place in a republic. My accountant showed be how it can be avoided.

[lamboguy]

i just watched this interview and thought that the gal doing the interview was very sharp and asked all the right questions and did not allow wiener to bamboozel her. in a polite way she made him look like a complete jerk. as far as the arguement goes, its a farce and really doesn't make to much of a difference which way all these bozo's vote. tax cut no tax cut they are going to find every possible way into your pockets so they can take your money away from you and get it to their friends and family as fas as they can.

[bigmack]

Do you people EVER think about anything other than taking from others?
Aren't ANY of you man or women enough to stand up and EARN your own frigging way?
They have BIG plans for that loot.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/money-toilet.jpg

[boxcar]

i just watched this interview and thought that the gal doing the interview was very sharp and asked all the right questions and did not allow wiener to bamboozel her. in a polite way she made him look like a complete jerk. as far as the arguement goes, its a farce and really doesn't make to much of a difference which way all these bozo's vote. tax cut no tax cut they are going to find every possible way into your pockets so they can take your money away from you and get it to their friends and family as fas as they can.

Lots more noise is being made about how the U.S. should follow in the steps of China's "wisdom" by placing strict limits on child births. There are whackos who want the U.S., too, to pass laws that would limit one child per household. What I see could happen in this "free" society is that if a such a law should pass, family's would only be able to deduct one child max. on their income tax return, and if they had more than one child, they would have to pay a stiff tax surcharge every year for each additional child until whatever age (for example, a "child" under ObmaCare is 35 or so I believe). Then not only would the state take care of all society's wussies from cradle to grave, but it could tax everyone, too, from womb to tomb.

Boxcar

[delayjf]

Heck you can raise the estate tax up to 90% - does anyone really believe the Gov is going to get 90% of Warren Buffets wealth when he dies. There are so many ways around the estate tax. I'd be real curious as to how much estate tax the Rockerfella's and the Kennedy's have paid over the years.

[boxcar]

Heck you can raise the estate tax up to 90% - does anyone really believe the Gov is going to get 90% of Warren Buffets wealth when he dies. There are so many ways around the estate tax. I'd be real curious as to how much estate tax the Rockerfella's and the Kennedy's have paid over the years.

So...are you saying the state is being duplicitous here -- talking out of both sides of its mouth? And that it does this by engineering loopholes into the tax laws that favors the very wealthy, but for those who can't afford the best and brightest tax lawyers and/or accountants, they are left to suffer under this oppressive tax? Are you essentially saying that the Death Tax is basically designed to take undue advantage of those who aren't "ultra" wealthy?

Boxcar

[lamboguy]

Lots more noise is being made about how the U.S. should follow in the steps of China's "wisdom" by placing strict limits on child births. There are whackos who want the U.S., too, to pass laws that would limit one child per household. What I see could happen in this "free" society is that if a such a law should pass, family's would only be able to deduct one child max. on their income tax return, and if they had more than one child, they would have to pay a stiff tax surcharge every year for each additional child until whatever age (for example, a "child" under ObmaCare is 35 or so I believe). Then not only would the state take care of all society's wussies from cradle to grave, but it could tax everyone, too, from womb to tomb.

Boxcarfirst of all this health care deal was coppied from romney who came up with the plan by the republican wing. personally i hate it when the government decides to separate their citizens from their money. they used mass. as a test case for this insurance plan.

the one thing i am sure you can look forward to in about 2 years when the conservetive republicans get more into power is the value added tax along with more income tax to save this country. today the republicans don't want to raise the tax, in 2012 they will talk from the other side of their mouth and tell you its for the good of the country. just like g.w. bush senior did.

[boxcar]

first of all this health care deal was coppied from romney who came up with the plan by the republican wing. personally i hate it when the government decides to separate their citizens from their money. they used mass. as a test case for this insurance plan.

It's comforting to know that at least no conservative came up with socialized medicine idea.

the one thing i am sure you can look forward to in about 2 years when the conservetive republicans get more into power is the value added tax along with more income tax to save this country. today the republicans don't want to raise the tax, in 2012 they will talk from the other side of their mouth and tell you its for the good of the country. just like g.w. bush senior did.

Correction, please: You meant to say the RINO republicans -- just as both Bushes were and still are.

In fact, it's RINOs right now who are about to be snared in BO's tax trap. Little do these imbeciles know that BO pulled a Clinton on them by co-opting the pending tax increases debate. Is it any wonder at all that Clinton is also in favor of BO's plan? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Secretariat]

Want to destroy small businesses?
Tax them to death.


Tom,

Could you post your definitions of what constitutes a small business? Maximum earnings? Size of business.

The reason I ask is Boehner classifies Bechtel as a small business.

[Tom]

Stupid post. Focus on the extreme and ignore the majority.

A family owned business that makes over 250K but has the whole thing wrapped up in their personal income. But you knew that.

Don't waste my time on nonsense.

[boxcar]

Stupid post. Focus on the extreme and ignore the majority.

A family owned business that makes over 250K but has the whole thing wrapped up in their personal income. But you knew that.

Don't waste my time on nonsense.

This is the latest game the class bigots play. They talk about the "rich" or "ultra rich", etc. and then lump all business people into these classes, conveniently forgetting that most small to mid-size corporations are the "S" type, which means exactly what you said above.

Boxcar

[Valuist]

How can anyone in any way, justify an estate tax? You work hard your whole life, have taxes TAKEN OUT ALREADY....then you die and your heirs get taxed AGAIN? Total bull$hit. Oh yeah, I forgot the government has the right to STEAL money from those who have.

[lamboguy]

most of our laws and taxes are modeled after english law. was there estate taxes in england?

i am not saying that estate taxes make any kind of sense, just curious

[Tom]

I don't think a lot taxes have paid out on Buckingham palace over the years. :D

[JustRalph]

most of our laws and taxes are modeled after english law. was there estate taxes in england?

i am not saying that estate taxes make any kind of sense, just curious

yep, except instead of being called taxpayers they were called Serfs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

From the Above:
In addition to service, a serf was required to pay certain taxes and fees. Taxes were based on the assessed value of his lands and holdings. Fees were usually paid in the form of foodstuffs rather than cash. The best ration of wheat from the serf’s harvest always went to the landlord. For the most part, hunting on the lord’s property was prohibited for the serfs. On Easter Sunday the peasant family owed an extra dozen eggs, and at Christmas a goose was expected as well. When a family member died, extra taxes were paid to the manor for the cost of that individual's labour. Any young woman who wished to marry a serf outside of her manor was forced to pay a fee for the lost labour.