NYCOTB CLOSING IS GREAT NEWS!

[samyn on the green]

not all bad (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2010/12/nycotb-closing-is-great-news.html)


It would seem that NYRA is truly in crisis mode without the handle from NYCOTB. They are chartering buses to funnel OTB players to the Big-A, pressing to overturn laws that prohibit live video and predicting that there may be purse reductions. Even the head of failed NYCOTB went on record to say that " there’s a definite possibility that the Saratoga Race Track will close as a result of the shutdown of OTB". The numbers after one day do not agree with this dire assessment. Instead of true crisis this could be a case of crisis as a means to an ends. It was Hilary Clinton that said "never waste of good crisis". NYRA could be using this "crisis" to accomplish goals which have stagnated in the sea of Albany dysfunction for decades. Beneath all the doom and gloom there may be a light which will be the start of a new paradigm for NYRA. A novus ordum of New York racing that will benefit the long term health of the industry.

[Zman179]

Even the head of failed NYCOTB went on record to say that " there’s a definite possibility that the Saratoga Race Track will close as a result of the shutdown of OTB".

That's total BS. NYRA would never shut down Saratoga, that's where they make their biggest profits. If anything they'll just cut off some winter dates at Aqueduct, though I think the upcoming slots in May 2011 will save NYRA from doing that.

[OTM Al]

That's total BS. NYRA would never shut down Saratoga, that's where they make their biggest profits.

The part after the comma is incorrect.

[Stillriledup]

This is great news for racing. Horseplayers dont need an extra 5% taken off the top for no real reason. Time to clean house, its a step in the right direction.

[mabred]

NYOYB closing will put the final nail in the coffin
here.On non NY days they bet pretty good into our pools.
Now it will never be as much and with slots or casino's
coming here in the future I make Suffolk 6-5 to close
by 2012.. make it 4-5 LOL

Mabred

[Zman179]

This is great news for racing. Horseplayers dont need an extra 5% taken off the top for no real reason. Time to clean house, its a step in the right direction.

It's actually bad news for racing in the short term. The New York City market is a convenience-based market, take away the convenience and they'll go elsewhere. A very large percentage of OTB weekday bettors were lunch players who would go to a branch to catch the double before heading back to work and maybe place some advance bets. 90% of that money will not migrate to other pools. There are also the old-timer $2 bettors who would hang out at a branch as a form of recreation, many of whom have limited mobility. Most of that money is gone.

The worst hit will be the trotter tracks. Monticello racing only exists for off-track betting, so losing NYCOTB is a tough pill to swallow. Plus Yonkers loses a big chunk of their handle (YR lost 25% of their handle on Thursday and Friday...but they're swimming in slots profits, so don't cry for them), and NYRA doesn't even take wagers on harness racing at all, so a NYRA One account won't do any good for a trotter player.

But in the long term, NYRA will seriously profit from this closure. The attendance will rise when the weather gets warmer (3,047 for a chilly Friday afternoon is a number not seen since the 1990's), more people will sign up for NYRA accounts, and NYRA will definitely make up for the losses.

[Jasonm921]

3,047 for a chilly Friday afternoon is a number not seen since the 1990's.


It must feel like Belmont Stakes day all crammed into the Clubhouse area :)

[Stillriledup]

It's actually bad news for racing in the short term. The New York City market is a convenience-based market, take away the convenience and they'll go elsewhere. A very large percentage of OTB weekday bettors were lunch players who would go to a branch to catch the double before heading back to work and maybe place some advance bets. 90% of that money will not migrate to other pools. There are also the old-timer $2 bettors who would hang out at a branch as a form of recreation, many of whom have limited mobility. Most of that money is gone.

The worst hit will be the trotter tracks. Monticello racing only exists for off-track betting, so losing NYCOTB is a tough pill to swallow. Plus Yonkers loses a big chunk of their handle (YR lost 25% of their handle on Thursday and Friday...but they're swimming in slots profits, so don't cry for them), and NYRA doesn't even take wagers on harness racing at all, so a NYRA One account won't do any good for a trotter player.

But in the long term, NYRA will seriously profit from this closure. The attendance will rise when the weather gets warmer (3,047 for a chilly Friday afternoon is a number not seen since the 1990's), more people will sign up for NYRA accounts, and NYRA will definitely make up for the losses.

Great post Z, thanks for all that info.

[Zman179]

Good news:

The Aqueduct races were back on the air today on Channel 71. No other tracks, just Aqueduct. Hey, considering that we had nothing, this is wayyy better. :ThmbUp:

[garyoz]

not all bad (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2010/12/nycotb-closing-is-great-news.html) It was Hilary Clinton that said "never waste of good crisis".

I believe it was Rahm Emanuel who said don't let a crisis go to waste. True he was a Clinton insider--but better known as President Obama's Chief Staff-when he made the statement-- and wannabe Mayor of Chicago.

The loss of the OTB player is huge. Many of the people cheering the demise of NYCOTB have never been in the city, let alone in an OTB. The OTB consists of the small players, many of whom are of modest circumstance, who will never open a phone or Internet account to wager. Or, maybe they will fund phone account for $25. The logistics of getting to a day at the races in NYC are not easy. But, many don't understand that. It is money going to lotto or elsewhere.

Maybe the upside is NYRA opening teletheatres. But the lunch time and casual player is at risk.

[samyn on the green]

Clinton said it too. (http://in.reuters.com/article/idINTRE5251VN20090306)

I believe it was Rahm Emanuel who said don't let a crisis go to waste. True he was a Clinton insider--but better known as President Obama's Chief Staff-when he made the statement-- and wannabe Mayor of Chicago.

The loss of the OTB player is huge. Many of the people cheering the demise of NYCOTB have never been in the city, let alone in an OTB. The OTB consists of the small players, many of whom are of modest circumstance, who will never open a phone or Internet account to wager. Or, maybe they will fund phone account for $25. The logistics of getting to a day at the races in NYC are not easy. But, many don't understand that. It is money going to lotto or elsewhere.

Maybe the upside is NYRA opening teletheatres. But the lunch time and casual player is at risk.

[samyn on the green]

NYRA makes three times as much money for on-track handle than OTB handle. This is considering if OTB paid off NYRA. OTB often pilfered NYRA and never paid for the signal. The OTB closure is a gold mine for NYRA. With handle only down 3.7% NYRA is making more money than the recent past.

Despite the closure of New York City Off-Track Betting (NYCOTB) contributing to a 48 percent drop in intrastate wagering on Aqueduct’s Saturday card ($1,269,468 this year as opposed to $2,423,338 last year), all sources handle was only off 3.7 percent, $9,138,698 this year as compared to $9,491,999 last year.

[Zman179]

The part after the comma is incorrect.

Ok, maybe not as big as the Belmont Stakes, but Saratoga Racecourse routinely profits on average between $10-$15 million per meet.

[Zman179]

NYRA makes three times as much money for on-track handle than OTB handle. This is considering if OTB paid off NYRA. OTB often pilfered NYRA and never paid for the signal. The OTB closure is a gold mine for NYRA. With handle only down 3.7% NYRA is making more money than the recent past.



Probably more than that. IIRC, NYCOTB was paying only 2¢ per dollar (due to a bulk discount) whereas NYRA collects close to 10¢ for an on-track wager.

[Linny]

If NYRA make 3x more in ontrack than OTB wagers, then they need to garner 1/3 of the NYCOTB wagering dollars to break even.

I agree that many of the OTB patrons were older retirees who used the OTB in their neighborhood as a social club. Many of these guys are not going to take a long bus ride to the track then wander around AQU or BEL looking for the gang.

Many of the small out of state tracks (like Suffolk as mentioned) will be in big trouble. many of these guys met every day, not just NY racing days. Tracks that carded racing on Monday and Tuesday got a big boost from the OTB player.

NYCOTB handled over $800k in bets last year. To just assume that all of that money will just transfer directly to NYRA is insane. Some of it will move to NYRA, via on track or account wagering or in the future via Teletheaters. Some will migrate to other ADW's, possibly to other NY OTB's (Catskill, Nassau, Capital etc.) but a decent amount of it will go away. It will leave racing permanently because it's just easier to buy lottery tickets or (shock of shocks!) save the money or buy a new washing machine. As mentioned above, convenience is the key. Alot of the "social club" bettors will just meet and play poker.

Every "brick and mortar" betting venue struggles with the balance between running brances and an ADW. Many of those branch patrons will never switch over to account betting. It is far easier and more efficient toaccept an account bet than a cash bet. Many of the bigger bettors are account bettors, but there are always a few bigger players who prefer the anonimity of cash betting in a parlor or Teletheater to using an account.