Mark Sanchez

[mountainman]

Why do talking heads continue to tiptoe around the fact that this guy just isn't very good? Nfl analysts apparently don't consider it pc to conclude that a young player simply lacks bigtime talent, thus a green quarterback's mistakes are ALWAYS characterized as mental. It's to the point where a scatter-armed Sanchez can heave a short pass 20 feet over his receiver's head and commentators call it part of the "maturation" process.

I don't think they realize that the mental aspect of sports is almost totally reliant on the physical. Without quick mobility that comes second nature, the sort of strength and balance that engenders confidence in tight quarters and good peripheral vision that cues exceptional hand/ eye coordination, the cerebral aspect of football will never come easily, if at all. The mental part is mostly physical. Consequently, Sanchez HAS no upside. Adequate journeyman is as good as it MIGHT get.

[Robert Fischer]

agreed.

Sanchez is limiting to the Jet's potential

the USC QBs going 1st round was a major coup

Palmer is at least solid, but after Palmer they were naturally recruited simply to fill into a power-house system for Pete Carroll. Their college statistics and records have to be considered a product of that system.

[Ocala Mike]

Buy low and sell high. You guys are overreacting to a game that, admittedly, wasn't as close as the score. Ryan's going to take this kid back of the woodshed and straighten him (and the team) out for their run.

I'm buying Sanchez "on the dip," and I wouldn't want to be the Dolphins coming into Jetland this Sunday.

Believe there's still plenty of upside here.


Ocala Mike

[mountainman]

Buy low and sell high. You guys are overreacting to a game that, admittedly, wasn't as close as the score. Ryan's going to take this kid back of the woodshed and straighten him (and the team) out for their run.

I'm buying Sanchez "on the dip," and I wouldn't want to be the Dolphins coming into Jetland this Sunday.

Believe there's still plenty of upside here.


Ocala Mike
He's a "try and hold 'em" qb. Trent Dilfer the sequel. Just my opinion.

[Robert Fischer]

I'm buying Sanchez "on the dip,"

SOLD. :)

[JustRalph]

I didn't see him make any throw even close to that pass that Brady made when forced out of the pocket, and while running left put a snap throw right on the receiver in the corner of the end zone. That was a big time QB throwing a Big Time pass........ under pressure.

He is still young.........

I always marvel at how wrong the NFL scouts etc can be when it comes to picking QB's. Look at Big Ben and Tom Brady. Neither was a huge target in the draft. But look what they developed into.

[OTM Al]

I didn't see him make any throw even close to that pass that Brady made when forced out of the pocket, and while running left put a snap throw right on the receiver in the corner of the end zone. That was a big time QB throwing a Big Time pass........ under pressure.

He is still young.........

I always marvel at how wrong the NFL scouts etc can be when it comes to picking QB's. Look at Big Ben and Tom Brady. Neither was a huge target in the draft. But look what they developed into.

Seriously, the guy is what, 22 or 23 years old? Given the incredible pressure of the position of playing QB in New York, the guy's done pretty darn good. After the first couple weeks I seem to recall murmurrings that Brady looked done. Sanchez is going to QB the team to the playoffs for the second straight year in his second year as a pro. Seems to me that Peyton Manning didn't do this. Everyone is now saying how great Kurt Warner was, but I seem to recall he couldn't even make an NFL roster initially. Sanchez may get there and he may not (there are plenty more "nots" in the world) but it would be foolish to say he's no good at this point. Besides, it looked like something was wrong with him healthwise last night at least in the first half (wasn't worth watching anymore after that, need my sleep)

[redshift1]

The jets lack of defense last night put a lot of pressure on the offense. After the lead was established the pats defense was free to hammer away without worring about giving up the game changing big play.

[Dahoss9698]

Why do talking heads continue to tiptoe around the fact that this guy just isn't very good? Nfl analysts apparently don't consider it pc to conclude that a young player simply lacks bigtime talent, thus a green quarterback's mistakes are ALWAYS characterized as mental. It's to the point where a scatter-armed Sanchez can heave a short pass 20 feet over his receiver's head and commentators call it part of the "maturation" process.

I don't think they realize that the mental aspect of sports is almost totally reliant on the physical. Without quick mobility that comes second nature, the sort of strength and balance that engenders confidence in tight quarters and good peripheral vision that cues exceptional hand/ eye coordination, the cerebral aspect of football will never come easily, if at all. The mental part is mostly physical. Consequently, Sanchez HAS no upside. Adequate journeyman is as good as it MIGHT get.

Nothing like a monday morning...excuse me, tuesday morning quarterback. He had an awful game. He's not Tom Brady and is never going to be. But he is talented and still has a lot of upside. He's shown tremendous poise in some of their late game heroics this this year. As a rookie he was nearly flawless in their playoff wins.

To say he has no upside is just an awful opinion. There wasn't a team in the NFL that was going into NE and winning last night. They played as good as they have all year and were exceptionally prepared by the best coach in the league and they have Brady playing as good as he ever has in his career.

I wouldn't count the Jets or Sanchez out though. They peaked at the right time last year and can this year also.

[Cardus]

I didn't see him make any throw even close to that pass that Brady made when forced out of the pocket, and while running left put a snap throw right on the receiver in the corner of the end zone. That was a big time QB throwing a Big Time pass........ under pressure.

He is still young.........

I always marvel at how wrong the NFL scouts etc can be when it comes to picking QB's. Look at Big Ben and Tom Brady. Neither was a huge target in the draft. But look what they developed into.

Roethlisberger was drafted 11th overall and was the third QB taken behind Manning and Rivers.

That makes him a pretty big target in the draft to me.

[JustRalph]

Roethlisberger was drafted 11th overall and was the third QB taken behind Manning and Rivers.

That makes him a pretty big target in the draft to me.

Granted, but as I said........the two huge targets in that draft were Manning and Rivers.

I guess the number 3 QB target would be pretty high up. But did anybody expect him to turn out like he did? I don't follow football that closely, but I don't think anybody thought he would be leading a team to the promised land

[Bettowin]

I don't know where you guys get your draft information but Peyton
Manning was number one and how soon we forget about Ryan Leaf who went number 2 overall. Remember how big a deal the media made about who would be the better QB with many many experts saying Leaf was THE can't miss pick that year. HAHAHAHAHAHA not even close:)

The next QB that year (1998) was Charlie Batch.

Ha, I just figured it out. You guys are talking about Eli not Peyton:) JP Losman was also drafted in the first round that year compared to Matt Schaub in who went in the 3rd.

[lamboguy]

i watched sanchez play good games against other teams. he wound up playing what could be the very best team in the league with 3 extra days to figure out how to stop him and 3 extra days of practice. he was facing the very best coach and staff in the league and had a severe disadvantage. the jets got blindsided in last nights game, they came to the table unprepared and it was like grant took richmond the result.

[swami13]

I don't know where you guys get your draft information but Peyton
Manning was number one and how soon we forget about Ryan Leaf who went number 2 overall. Remember how big a deal the media made about who would be the better QB with many many experts saying Leaf was THE can't miss pick that year. HAHAHAHAHAHA not even close:)

The next QB that year (1998) was Charlie Batch.

Ha, I just figured it out. You guys are talking about Eli not Peyton:) JP Losman was also drafted in the first round that year compared to Matt Schaub in who went in the 3rd.

You did have me google when Charlie Batch was drafted, I thought he was like 45 years old by now. I would have never guessed he was drafted the same year as Peyton.

[Valuist]

I don't think he's a superstar but I wouldn't give up on him yet. He has shown definite signs of improvement from his rookie year:

QB rating: 2009: 63 2010: 77
TD/Int ratio: 2009: 12-20 2010: 16-11
Completion %: 2009: 54% 2010: 55%

I would say he has shown enough improvement to be acceptable but he still will need to show further improvement in 2011 for the Jets to be serious contenders. The completion percentage is awfully low, although the Jets probably throw the ball downfield more than most.

[sandpit]

Granted, but as I said........the two huge targets in that draft were Manning and Rivers.

I guess the number 3 QB target would be pretty high up. But did anybody expect him to turn out like he did? I don't follow football that closely, but I don't think anybody thought he would be leading a team to the promised land

Time to redboard a bit. I was watching Rothlisberger for the first in some minor bowl game his senior year and I said to the wife, "This guy is pretty good, I hope the Steelers get him in the draft."

Fast forward to when we are watching his first Super Bowl game, and she says something to the effect of, "hey is that the guy you wanted them to draft, maybe you should tell them you want to be a recruiter for them". (she doesn't know the difference between college and pro player procurement).

[PhantomOnTour]

I think the most difficult thing to do in sports is not hitting a baseball or hitting a golfball; it's playing quarterback in the NFL. Consistently making the right read and making a good throw against modern day defenses is a serious task.
Let's face it, hundreds of people can hit a baseball and golfball consistently well, but only about 10-12 guys can play QB in the NFL consistently well...and that may be stretching it.

That being said, I think Sanchez is doing just fine. He won a playoff game as a rookie and has shown improvement in year two. The Pats game was a disaster, but they've humbled Peyton and Big Ben more than once, so I wouldn't take it too hard if I'm a Jets fan.

How do ya'll compare him to other active QBs early in their careers?
Freeman
Stafford (injured a lot but looks good when he plays)
Flacco
Ryan
Henne
Bradford

[melman]

Phanton---I would respectfully have to disagree with you. I think by far the hardest thing to do in pro sports is getting and keeping a PGA Tour card. Yes anyone can hit a golfball and some can do it on a consistent basis. However making the shots and making the "big putt" IS A WHOLE OTHER BALL GAME. You do not have any help such as a great offensive line to keep defenses off of you. I have known two guys that were very very good golfers but they could not get that Tour card. It's really the toughest competion in the world IMO.

On a side note and also IMO the toughest golf tourny in the world is not The Masters or the US or British Opens. It's the six round elim known as The P
GA Tour Q-School event. Man now that is pressure. Congrats to Billy Mayfair for winning that event this week. He has overcome a ton of problems. Also next year the tour will have it's second player of black heritage. Joseph Bramlett qualified with some great shots in his last round 68. Two guys earned there cards by getting in "right on the number". They shot 74 and 76 in there final rounds. Good luck to them both in the new season.

[Robert Goren]

Sanchez has shown some promise and next year (his third) should tell the story on whether he will be a journeyman QB like McNabb or something special like Brady. One more thing, the last time I checked he doesn't play defense. The Jets highly touted defense parted like the Red Sea for Brady and company.

[rastajenk]

Time to redboard a bit. Mind if I chime in with some major league redboarding?

As a Miami alum, I was a bit biased, but I also knew he was pro-ready. He was a man among boys, and not just because he played in a less-than-major conference. He simply would not be denied, whether it was taking hits in the pocket or making key throws to keep a drive going...just like now. It reminded me of seeing Randy Moss of Marshall simply elevating above all others on the field in a game vs. Miami: a sure thing, and I'm certainly not a talent scout.

When My Bengals took Carson Palmer the year before, I thought, geez, they've blown it again; they could have waited a year and gone for Big Ben. Not just the local angle, but his huge presence. Palmer stood on the sidelines his first year anyway (typical Bengal over-caution that exists today; it's not in Palmer job description to even call time outs), while Ben started his second game and hasn't looked back since. Pittsburgh, of all teams. Ugh.

[JustRalph]

It's amazing the great Football legacy Miami of O has.

[Valuist]

Re: Roethelisberger, I believe he could've went to Michigan but wanted to be able to start as a freshman. Certainly not the first QB to come out of the MAC. At one time, there was a bunch: him, Pennington, Leftwich, Culpepper (Cent Fla was in the MAC at the time), Josh Cribbs (was a QB in the MAC).

He's won 2 Super Bowls and made Pro Bowls, but his biggest play was in the AFC title game a few years ago where he tackled a Colt player after either an INT or fumble. The guy had a clear path to house it, but Roethlisberger's tackle ulitmately saved the game for Pitt.

[slew101]

Sanchez has been pretty bad in many games, good in a few, and very good in a few. He's still only started around 25 games (missed a couple last year, I believe). He needs time.

Look how bad Eli Manning was in his first 25 starts? I actually thought he might be cut by the Giants after 3 seasons. He's developed into a solid, not great, QB. I think Sanchez has that type of future in front of him. Good QB, but never will be great.

[Canarsie]

The jury is still out and I think because of one reason only. Is he a cold weather quarterback?

Jeez the guy is in his second year and was thrown to the wolves from day 1. Some oh his reads are really awful and then he comes back and leads a game winning drive. Is he in the top 10? Me thinks not but only time will tell.

Having said all of this leading your team to the playoffs your first two years in the league hasn't been accomplished by many I bet.

[KingChas]

Throwout game that had a snowball effect.
Every team and every QB have a couple of these games every year.
If the Jets and Sanchez can delete this game mentally they will be back to norm.
Sanchez is a very young QB coming from a warm climate college career to the frigid northeast pro career,give him time.

Funny thing is the Patriots are being honored as the best team in the NFL.

Guess nobody remembers the Pats and Brady's game against the Cleveland Browns.

Very similar to Monday nite,but the shoe was on the other foot.

Still not sold on the Pats defense once the playoffs start...catch me later. ;)

[rastajenk]

If the Jets and Sanchez can delete this game mentally they will be back to norm.
The question is, though, what is their norm? Overtime wins over weaker teams? They won't get that luxury after Christmas.

[eastie]

Roethlisberger was drafted 11th overall and was the third QB taken behind Manning and Rivers.

That makes him a pretty big target in the draft to me.



well you know alot more about football than boxing. anyone who watched Ben at miami knew he would be be a big time qb. he was really awesome. he had such touch , but could also throw the fast ball and the big ball. The way he used to lay it softly into the guy with the bad hands who was always open over the middle was what was most impressive, plus they couldn't taclke him even if they got pressure.



Sanchez has shown a ton of Moxie. The jets have won games with him that they had no right winning. This is a sign of a good QB. With the HUGE addition of Santonio Holmes, the jet still must be considered as a possible Super Bowl team.....Though the Pats are definitely on the come, and now we know why we passed on Dez Bryant for our new star CB.

[Dahoss9698]

The question is, though, what is their norm? Overtime wins over weaker teams? They won't get that luxury after Christmas.

Yeah that is their norm. 2 of their 9 wins have been in overtime and one of them was at Cleveland, a team that crushed the Pats a week earlier.

Good call.

[eastie]

Re: Roethelisberger, I believe he could've went to Michigan but wanted to be able to start as a freshman. Certainly not the first QB to come out of the MAC. At one time, there was a bunch: him, Pennington, Leftwich, Culpepper (Cent Fla was in the MAC at the time), Josh Cribbs (was a QB in the MAC).

He's won 2 Super Bowls and made Pro Bowls, but his biggest play was in the AFC title game a few years ago where he tackled a Colt player after either an INT or fumble. The guy had a clear path to house it, but Roethlisberger's tackle ulitmately saved the game for Pitt.



saved the Bus Jerome Bettis from being the biggest goat in history. What a great tackle it was too...



and for those looking for a winner...Eastie releases his college game of the year on Army over Navy. spread is + 7 1/2 currently, but I like Army to win the game. Army ML.+275

[rastajenk]

Yeah that is their norm. 2 of their 9 wins have been in overtime and one of them was at Cleveland, a team that crushed the Pats a week earlier.

Good call.OK, how 'bout "last minute wins over weaker teams?" That makes about 5 out of their 9 wins. Better; or do you have a problem with labelling Cleveland a weaker team? :kiss:

[Dahoss9698]

OK, how 'bout "last minute wins over weaker teams?" That makes about 5 out of their 9 wins. Better; or do you have a problem with labelling Cleveland a weaker team? :kiss:

No I have a problem with people talking about a topic when they know nothing about it. It's the elitist in me.

[rastajenk]

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

qb basically has a couple jobs

"judgment" - perform with a low rate of costly mistakes

"makes all the throws" - deter the defense from overloading a predictable area or playcall


the rest is coaching.

[PhantomOnTour]

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. :ThmbUp:
Nice one rastajenk

[Dahoss9698]

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. :ThmbUp:

If trying to deal with facts is a problem, yes, I admit it. Facts can be fun, give them a shot sometime.

[mountainman]

I wouldn't count the Jets or Sanchez out though. They peaked at the right time last year and can this year also.

Whose opinion looks "awful" now? And as long as we're fixated on what day of the week our points of view are offered up (Tuesday morning quarterback), Sanchez's most recent debacle WAS subsequent to our respective posts. Correct?

[cj's dad]

Responding to the hardest things to do in sports; as a person who had two major league tryouts at age 17-18 with the Pirates and White Sox, I can tell you first hand that in baseball, no matter how good you think you are. there are players that are so good that they make you feel very inferior.

[mountainman]

Responding to the hardest things to do in sports; as a person who had two major league tryouts at age 17-18 with the Pirates and White Sox, I can tell you first hand that in baseball, no matter how good you think you are. there are players that are so good that they make you feel very inferior.

It's the same in hoops. Back in my late teens, I was much slimmer and considered an exceptional baller. I could shoot the lights out and played way physical on the boards. And then i got in an asphalt game with some guys who had played major college and even some pro. Mickey Davis, a 6'7 swingman who enjoyed a productive stint with Kareem's Milwaukee Bucks, was one of them. To say I got humiliated is like saying Richard Simmons is a sissy. Those guys put me in my place.

[Dahoss9698]

Whose opinion looks "awful" now? And as long as we're fixated on what day of the week our points of view are offered up (Tuesday morning quarterback), Sanchez's most recent debacle WAS subsequent to our respective posts. Correct?

Yours still does. I maintain thinking he has no upside is an awful opinion. A bad game or two doesn't change that. A lot of players go through slumps. Look at Peyton Manning a few weeks back.

[JustRalph]

At a baseball tryout for a mlb team I found out I was a big fish in a small pond :lol: I didn't even get past the forty yard dash timing.

I went home in two hours with about 75 percent of our group.

[newtothegame]

Yours still does. I maintain thinking he has no upside is an awful opinion. A bad game or two doesn't change that. A lot of players go through slumps. Look at Peyton Manning a few weeks back.

Im pretty sure we aren't comparing Manning to sanchez here....(ot at least I hope not). I will go out on a limb and say sanchex will NEVER be Peyton!
But, in all seriousness, sanchez, I don't think has alot more upside.
He is a good qb who can make most of the throws.
If you look at the surrounding cast on both offense and defense, I would say its quite good. Yes, they have had some injuries, but what team hasnt?
A solid running game with tomlinson and Greene. A better then average recieving corps with holmes, cotchery, and Edwards.
Oline...well they have given up 26 sacks, although I think some of them have been due to sanchez's indecisiveness.
There are ONLY TWO qb's with lower completion percentages.
Mentally, maybe the kid is putting too much pressure on himself. I say himself as the offense seems pretty bland and not too complicated.
Ryan seems to depend on his defense alot more then offense.
Just don't see this kid improving alot more..... Good serviceable qb but don't see him as top ten material....
Just my opinion

[Dave Schwartz]

In my opinion - which is admittedly not too learned on the topic - Sanchez made the right financial decision in going to the draft a year early. However, from a development standpoint, I think he would have benefited greatly from the extra year in college ball.

So, he got his big contract - $34m as I recall - but may not last long.

Just my opinion.


Dave

[Dahoss9698]

Im pretty sure we aren't comparing Manning to sanchez here....(ot at least I hope not). I will go out on a limb and say sanchex will NEVER be Peyton!
But, in all seriousness, sanchez, I don't think has alot more upside.
He is a good qb who can make most of the throws.
If you look at the surrounding cast on both offense and defense, I would say its quite good. Yes, they have had some injuries, but what team hasnt?
A solid running game with tomlinson and Greene. A better then average recieving corps with holmes, cotchery, and Edwards.
Oline...well they have given up 26 sacks, although I think some of them have been due to sanchez's indecisiveness.
There are ONLY TWO qb's with lower completion percentages.
Mentally, maybe the kid is putting too much pressure on himself. I say himself as the offense seems pretty bland and not too complicated.
Ryan seems to depend on his defense alot more then offense.
Just don't see this kid improving alot more..... Good serviceable qb but don't see him as top ten material....
Just my opinion

How many Jets games have you watched this year?

No one said he's going to be the next Manning. But to say he has no upside is ridiculous. I know it's the internet, so it's par for the course, but still. We're talking about a guy who made 16 starts in college. He's made what, 32 in the NFL. He plays in NYC, which I can assure you isn't easy. Every move you make is scrutinized.

The O-line has been awful all year. Slauson is a liability and they miss Faneca. The running game has been mediocre for weeks. And their recievers have dropped a lot of passes. The offense is bland because Schottenheimer is a terrible coordinator. They have a lot of weapons, but the play calling is vanilla.

My only point is to conclude he has no upside because of a slump is pure folly.

[newtothegame]

How many Jets games have you watched this year?

No one said he's going to be the next Manning. But to say he has no upside is ridiculous. I know it's the internet, so it's par for the course, but still. We're talking about a guy who made 16 starts in college. He's made what, 32 in the NFL. He plays in NYC, which I can assure you isn't easy. Every move you make is scrutinized.

The O-line has been awful all year. Slauson is a liability and they miss Faneca. The running game has been mediocre for weeks. And their recievers have dropped a lot of passes. The offense is bland because Schottenheimer is a terrible coordinator. They have a lot of weapons, but the play calling is vanilla.

My only point is to conclude he has no upside because of a slump is pure folly.

Well Dahoss....first of there sir...I NEVER said he had "NO" upside. If you could show me that in my post, it would be appreciated. I said I dont see "alot" more upside.
As for playing in NYC, it goes with the gig. For 34 mil, or whatever his contract was, it goes with the gig! But, I do agree that the media there is probably alot quicker to turn on a guy versus say a smaller market.
Next, the play calling has been toned down in my opinion for HIM. It is called progression. As time progresses, hopefully he will too and the play calling will get "less" vanilla.
As for Schottenheimer.....the guy has a pretty impressive resume. In 09, the jets led the league at over 170 yds a game rushing. Now you can attribute that to the O line, but some of it has to go to the coaching staff as well. Not too mention he also taught Brees and rivers early in their careers.
So now the guy is terrible?? I think the problems are bigger then him....but thats just me personally.
Ryan, like his father is a defensive minded coach first! Look across the league where there are defensive minded head coaches and you will see low scoring teams.
As I mentioned in another post, this is now a pass happy league. Rules are bent towards prolific offenses.
I hope Sanchez succeeds...I like the young man. I just dont see alot more upside with him. As to your "slump" comment, I would seriously ask you what determines a "good" qb for you?
Is it W's? Accuracy? Mental toughness?
I think its a combination....W's...well the jets are 9-4. But as I mentioned earlier, outside of a late pass or two, I don't see those wins directly attributed to his ability or him.
Accuracy?? ONLY twice this year has the guy been above 60%. Sorry, but to me, that's not good enough to be considered a guy with alot of upside. In 09, it was very similiar with THREE games that he played over 60%.
Last year about 53 % completion rate....this year again in that range. So where's the improvement year over year?
Point I am making is that in MY OPINION, you mention about judging him based on a slump....I think most of his two years have been a slump with a FEW bright spots.

[Robert Fischer]

At a baseball tryout for a mlb team I found out I was a big fish in a small pond :lol: I didn't even get past the forty yard dash timing.

I went home in two hours with about 75 percent of our group.

You ain't alone pal. :ThmbUp: Unfortunately I had to choose between pitcher and hitter instead of simply doing both. I knew I could always get a look on the mound later, and hitting was my real passion(and the macon farm team had that really cool train tracks out past the HR fence). Hammy had been "tight" all week - *boom* stop! its hamstring time, it looked like a sniper had take care of me :bang:. :lol:

[Robert Fischer]

My only point is to conclude he has no upside because of a slump is pure folly.


I agree with Dahoss96-98 in principle here. (a slump or a bad streak , or a single game shouldn't cause an over-reaction) :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:



However when it comes to the opinion on the player, i already stated my differences of opinion.


I believe Sanchez's ability in the 2 QB Responsibilities (judgment, makes-all-the-throws) is barely sufficient.
This limits the coaching staff's options on offense.
This allows the opposing defensive coaches to "overload" at times.
This means that "momentum" is often a just a costly misjudgment away.
I've stated some long time opinions about his lack of raw physical tools. I've mentioned the major Coup that occurred with the USC QB's going 1st round(other than maybe Palmer) and how after Palmer, USC's elite coach naturally recruited QBs to fit their elite system(as opposed to a well-rounded QB) and that their college statistics and won-loss records were not properly viewed as product of their system.

It's not like Sanchez has ZERO chance to ever make it to a Super Bowl. He does have great coaching and good defense. He HAS been improving with his "judgment". He HAS actually made the 20-40yard pass an actual WEAPON as opposed to simply a decoy to stretch the D this year. I don't like him but he could still be a somebody... ;)

[mountainman]

Yours still does. I maintain thinking he has no upside is an awful opinion. A bad game or two doesn't change that. A lot of players go through slumps. Look at Peyton Manning a few weeks back.

First you opine despite the jet's fast start and recent implosion that their best football is AHEAD of them, and then you compare some scatter-armed second year quarterback (who sails short patterns 20 feet over his receiver's heads) to Peyton Manning. But it's my opinion that's awful. Thanks. Glad we got that cleared up.

[delayjf]

I posted a while back that I was dubious as to picking Sanchez as a first round pick. Sanchez has always had a lofty reputation coming out of HS where he was the number one rated QB his senior year. USC fans were comping at the bit waiting for him to finally get to start and lead them back to a national championship - it never happened, but his reputation never waned.

I will admit that he can make all the throws required in the NFL. What I questioned was his experience and his ability in the fourth quarter. I remembe what Bill Walsh (49er coach) said he looked for in a QB and was the most impressed with Joe Montana, was the ability to rally a team in the 4th quarter. At USC Sanchez always played on a team that was loaded with talent and favored over every one of their opponants, hense he rarely had to play into the 4th quarter with the game on the line - when he did, they always lost. But I know he looked good in shorts when NFL teams came to work him out.

Sanchez could not have asked for a better team to cut his NFL teeth with. The Jets had the number 1 running game and defense which meant Sanchez would not have to carry the team immediately.

Some times he looks like he's turned the corner, but then he seems to slide back a bit. Right now I feel like the jury is still out on Sanchez one more year will tell.

[Dahoss9698]

Well Dahoss....first of there sir...I NEVER said he had "NO" upside. If you could show me that in my post, it would be appreciated. I said I dont see "alot" more upside.
As for playing in NYC, it goes with the gig. For 34 mil, or whatever his contract was, it goes with the gig! But, I do agree that the media there is probably alot quicker to turn on a guy versus say a smaller market.
Next, the play calling has been toned down in my opinion for HIM. It is called progression. As time progresses, hopefully he will too and the play calling will get "less" vanilla.
As for Schottenheimer.....the guy has a pretty impressive resume. In 09, the jets led the league at over 170 yds a game rushing. Now you can attribute that to the O line, but some of it has to go to the coaching staff as well. Not too mention he also taught Brees and rivers early in their careers.
So now the guy is terrible?? I think the problems are bigger then him....but thats just me personally.
Ryan, like his father is a defensive minded coach first! Look across the league where there are defensive minded head coaches and you will see low scoring teams.
As I mentioned in another post, this is now a pass happy league. Rules are bent towards prolific offenses.
I hope Sanchez succeeds...I like the young man. I just dont see alot more upside with him. As to your "slump" comment, I would seriously ask you what determines a "good" qb for you?
Is it W's? Accuracy? Mental toughness?
I think its a combination....W's...well the jets are 9-4. But as I mentioned earlier, outside of a late pass or two, I don't see those wins directly attributed to his ability or him.
Accuracy?? ONLY twice this year has the guy been above 60%. Sorry, but to me, that's not good enough to be considered a guy with alot of upside. In 09, it was very similiar with THREE games that he played over 60%.
Last year about 53 % completion rate....this year again in that range. So where's the improvement year over year?
Point I am making is that in MY OPINION, you mention about judging him based on a slump....I think most of his two years have been a slump with a FEW bright spots.

I'll ask again, how many Jets games have you personally watched this year? or last year for that matter?

[Dahoss9698]

First you opine despite the jet's fast start and recent implosion that their best football is AHEAD of them, and then you compare some scatter-armed second year quarterback (who sails short patterns 20 feet over his receiver's heads) to Peyton Manning. But it's my opinion that's awful. Thanks. Glad we got that cleared up.

Actually I didn't and if you weren't so hurt from someone disagreeing with you (how dare they, don't they know who you are), you would look at what I said. At no point was I comparing Sanchez and Manning in their abilities. I was making a point that QB's go through slumps. Even the really good ones. The really good ones like Manning, who threw 11 INT's in a 3 game span this year. That's a lot considering he had 12 INT's the entire year in 2008.

My opinion is the Jets have the ability and talent to still put their best football forward. If they don't, than yes, my opinion will be wrong. It wasn't wrong after one game. They did last year, after looking like they weren't going to get into the playoffs. Well, they played their 4 best game sin a row and made it to the AFC CHampionship.

Implosion is funny though. They got blown out on the road by the Pats, in a game the Pats would have blown out anyone. The Pats are playing their best football right now. Then the Jets got beat 10-6, because Santonio Holmes missed a wide open TD catch where there wasn't a defender within 5 yards of him. What an implosion.

You're more than welcome to think Sanchez has no upside. And I can think it is a poor opinion. At least Sanchez knows how to act when he is out at bars and isn't getting suspened for violating conduct policies.

[mountainman]

Actually I didn't and if you weren't so hurt from someone disagreeing with you (how dare they, don't they know who you are), you would look at what I said.


Sooner or later, online debates result in personal attacks. And even mild ones like this take the fun out of it for me. Besides, it's xmas, so let's just agree to disagree. Since you're aware I'm a steelers fan, I do have one question. Are you a jets supporter? Believe it or not, I always root for the jets-except when they play Pittsburgh, of course.

[Valuist]

It could be worse for Sanchez......he could be THIRD on the depth chart this week behind Rex Grossman and John Beck.

[newtothegame]

I'll ask again, how many Jets games have you personally watched this year? or last year for that matter?

Listen dahoss.....I have alot of respect for you and your ability to handicap. I personally followed your beatdowns of several other players here and there dissappearance afterwards. But lets not let that translate into now you know then end all of everything.
You stated your opinion....and as others have, I stated mine. I backed up my opinions with facts. I need not go further and explain how many jet games I have watched or not watched. Just so you know, the jets are not the primary choices of news stations here in new orleans. That spot is reserved for the saints.
Now if you wish to debate the facts that I have presented about his LOW completion rates year over year.....
The stud defense he inherited opposite of him (which by the way is a BIG part of the reason for many of the wins in my opinion)...
The amazing resurgence of Tomlinson and the running game (although I will grant you that as of late it has faltered)....
The reality is that when Sanchez has been needed (both at SC and now with the jets) to perform at a high level consistently to win, in my opinion, he has come up short.
His passes are sailing high and wide...
His TD to INT ratio is nothing to stand and cheer about....
His completion pct...well its near the bottom three in the league...
And because someone has an opinion that his upside may be limited...you get upset?????
Well....get over your love fest....
As I said, I hope he does succeed. Nice young man in my opinion.....
But nice young man doesnt translate into high quality QB in the NFL.

[anotherCAfan]

I posted a while back that I was dubious as to picking Sanchez as a first round pick. Sanchez has always had a lofty reputation coming out of HS where he was the number one rated QB his senior year. USC fans were comping at the bit waiting for him to finally get to start and lead them back to a national championship - it never happened, but his reputation never waned.
He did all he could do--win the conference title to get a BCS berth. Unfortunately, two other teams also had the same record (and didn't two other teams also go undefeated?), so he and USC did not get the opportunity to play for a championship.


Sanchez has had 1.5 bad games (had Santonio Holmes not dropped the TD pass, they could have won last week), but I would take him over Carson Palmer right now. I might even take him over Matt Cassell.


As for the Jets, the injuries to Faneca and Leonhard (the safety) haven't helped. LT has slowed down as the season has gone on. I hope the Jets can turn it around, but I am not writing off Sanchez.

[newtothegame]

The debate is not about writing sanchez off. He is a good serviceable QB. But, comparisons, or parallels to Manning, well, that's a bit off base. If comparisons should be made, let's at least compare apples to apples.
He, was mentioned around number ten along with a few others such as Cassell. Those are comparisons that are logical. I will go a step further....HE (SANCHEZ) WILL NEVER BE A PETTING, BREES, BRADY.

[Dahoss9698]

Listen dahoss.....I have alot of respect for you and your ability to handicap. I personally followed your beatdowns of several other players here and there dissappearance afterwards. But lets not let that translate into now you know then end all of everything.
You stated your opinion....and as others have, I stated mine. I backed up my opinions with facts. I need not go further and explain how many jet games I have watched or not watched. Just so you know, the jets are not the primary choices of news stations here in new orleans. That spot is reserved for the saints.
Now if you wish to debate the facts that I have presented about his LOW completion rates year over year.....
The stud defense he inherited opposite of him (which by the way is a BIG part of the reason for many of the wins in my opinion)...
The amazing resurgence of Tomlinson and the running game (although I will grant you that as of late it has faltered)....
The reality is that when Sanchez has been needed (both at SC and now with the jets) to perform at a high level consistently to win, in my opinion, he has come up short.
His passes are sailing high and wide...
His TD to INT ratio is nothing to stand and cheer about....
His completion pct...well its near the bottom three in the league...
And because someone has an opinion that his upside may be limited...you get upset?????
Well....get over your love fest....
As I said, I hope he does succeed. Nice young man in my opinion.....
But nice young man doesnt translate into high quality QB in the NFL.

All you had to say is you haven't seen many Jets games. That much was obvious. Numbers are only part of it. You know very little about the Jets, yet because you looked at their stats, you do. pretty funny. Even funnier is you getting mad because we both know you are just talking, while not really knowing what you are talking about.

In the past decade I think I have missed maybe 1 or 2 games. It doesn't make me an expert on everything, but I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of the team, their weaknesses and strengths.

The defense was outstanding last year. It hasn't been this year. It's okay, but nowhere near last year. The offensive line has been awful. Their recievers have dropped a lot of passes and he's getting no help from his coordianator. Trust me, very few jets fans like Shotty as a coordinator or play caller.

We're all welcome to our opinions, but don't you think someone who has watched the games might be a little bit more aware of what is going on than someone just looking at stats?

[Dahoss9698]

The debate is not about writing sanchez off. He is a good serviceable QB. But, comparisons, or parallels to Manning, well, that's a bit off base. If comparisons should be made, let's at least compare apples to apples.
He, was mentioned around number ten along with a few others such as Cassell. Those are comparisons that are logical. I will go a step further....HE (SANCHEZ) WILL NEVER BE A PETTING, BREES, BRADY.

Actually the debate is about writing him off. I initially responded because it was said he has no upside. One more time, I'm not comparing Sanchez to Manning. I was showing that everyone goes through slumps. Even greats like Manning have spots where they play poorly.

It helps when you actually know what the debate is about.

[Dahoss9698]

Sooner or later, online debates result in personal attacks. And even mild ones like this take the fun out of it for me. Besides, it's xmas, so let's just agree to disagree. Since you're aware I'm a steelers fan, I do have one question. Are you a jets supporter? Believe it or not, I always root for the jets-except when they play Pittsburgh, of course.

I didn't personally attack you. Why is it that people can be sarcastic with me, but when I do it, I am personally attacking them?

All I was saying is I think it's premature to say he has no upside. You disagree and that's fine. Good luck this weekend. Should be a good game.

[newtothegame]

All you had to say is you haven't seen many Jets games. That much was obvious. Numbers are only part of it. You know very little about the Jets, yet because you looked at their stats, you do. pretty funny. Even funnier is you getting mad because we both know you are just talking, while not really knowing what you are talking about.

In the past decade I think I have missed maybe 1 or 2 games. It doesn't make me an expert on everything, but I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of the team, their weaknesses and strengths.

The defense was outstanding last year. It hasn't been this year. It's okay, but nowhere near last year. The offensive line has been awful. Their recievers have dropped a lot of passes and he's getting no help from his coordianator. Trust me, very few jets fans like Shotty as a coordinator or play caller.

We're all welcome to our opinions, but don't you think someone who has watched the games might be a little bit more aware of what is going on than someone just looking at stats?

To your last question...NO I dont think someone who has watched them alot makes them more knowledgeable. And, again, you continue to put YOUR OWN words into what YOU think was said. I am still waiting for you to show me where I said Sanchez has "NO" upside?

Next, you say that you didnt compare him to Manning...well maybe not directly (because even you know that would be ridiculous), but you did indirectly by using manning's slump as a comparison. But, enough said about the Manning , Sanchez thing as outside of this forum...they will never be compared to in the same conversation.

Now you can ASSUME all I do is look at stats, and that I base all of my decisions and opinions on those stats...AGAIN, you would be wrong. That's like saying that anyone who hasnt seen EVERY game of a certain team is not qualified to make or form an opinion. I dont need to watch that Panthers to know they are the worst team in the NFL this year. I dont need to see the Bengals play week in and week out to think they have a very talented team and are UNDERPERFORMING greatly at 2-11.
There are many media outlest where you can get all of the information you need to be a fan of the game. And a knowledgeable one at that.
You seem to think that because you watch or have seen them ALOT your the foremost expert on them...what about the jet fans who have seen the games and think like us ( that he has limityed upside)??? Guess they don't know what they are talking about either huh???
See Dahoss...(and let me preface my next statement again by re-itterating my respect for your handicapping), you acted the same way in those threads as you are here. You take little cheap shots at peoples intellect when they differ in opinion.
You make assinine assumptions about being "mad"...lol
I think its hillarious that you now not only know more about the jets then anyone, you also know my demeanor on the internet, lol.
You then make comments about "par for the course for the internet"...well couldnt the same be said about you and your opinions??? Unless your using some other form of media here that the rest of us are oblivious too??? lol
But, if nothing else...you are fun. I enjoy the back and forth...its why I come here...
Meet great people...possibly learn a thing or too..and pass along knnowledge as well...
Carry on ohhh great Jets encyclopedia....
May we all be so blessed as you.....
I am sure if you write your opinions in the Times or one of those other great NY papers, maybe Ryan can gain a thing or two from ya and get them Jets back on to winning ways. :lol:

[Dahoss9698]

To your last question...NO I dont think someone who has watched them alot makes them more knowledgeable. And, again, you continue to put YOUR OWN words into what YOU think was said. I am still waiting for you to show me where I said Sanchez has "NO" upside?

Next, you say that you didnt compare him to Manning...well maybe not directly (because even you know that would be ridiculous), but you did indirectly by using manning's slump as a comparison. But, enough said about the Manning , Sanchez thing as outside of this forum...they will never be compared to in the same conversation.

Now you can ASSUME all I do is look at stats, and that I base all of my decisions and opinions on those stats...AGAIN, you would be wrong. That's like saying that anyone who hasnt seen EVERY game of a certain team is not qualified to make or form an opinion. I dont need to watch that Panthers to know they are the worst team in the NFL this year. I dont need to see the Bengals play week in and week out to think they have a very talented team and are UNDERPERFORMING greatly at 2-11.
There are many media outlest where you can get all of the information you need to be a fan of the game. And a knowledgeable one at that.
You seem to think that because you watch or have seen them ALOT your the foremost expert on them...what about the jet fans who have seen the games and think like us ( that he has limityed upside)??? Guess they don't know what they are talking about either huh???
See Dahoss...(and let me preface my next statement again by re-itterating my respect for your handicapping), you acted the same way in those threads as you are here. You take little cheap shots at peoples intellect when they differ in opinion.
You make assinine assumptions about being "mad"...lol
I think its hillarious that you now not only know more about the jets then anyone, you also know my demeanor on the internet, lol.
You then make comments about "par for the course for the internet"...well couldnt the same be said about you and your opinions??? Unless your using some other form of media here that the rest of us are oblivious too??? lol
But, if nothing else...you are fun. I enjoy the back and forth...its why I come here...
Meet great people...possibly learn a thing or too..and pass along knnowledge as well...
Carry on ohhh great Jets encyclopedia....
May we all be so blessed as you.....
I am sure if you write your opinions in the Times or one of those other great NY papers, maybe Ryan can gain a thing or two from ya and get them Jets back on to winning ways. :lol:

Talk about putting words into someone's mouth.

You never said he has no upside. I never said you did. Mountainman did and that is what I initially responded to. You said he does not have a lot more upside. Whatever that means.

I assume you are going by stats, because I asked how many games you have watched and you avoided the question. I assume you are going by stats because you said the Jets aren't the primary choice where you live.

I don't think I am the foremost expert on the Jets and never said as much. But I have a pretty good idea when someone is full of shit and my meter is exploding reading each of your replies in this thread. I guess watching highlights makes someone more knowledgable than someone that watches every single play week in and week out.

Like you said, par for the course for the internet. Make a stupid comment, get mad if someone responds to it and avoid all simple questions that will reveal how full of shit you are.

[newtothegame]

Talk about putting words into someone's mouth.

You never said he has no upside. I never said you did. Mountainman did and that is what I initially responded to. You said he does not have a lot more upside. Whatever that means.

I assume you are going by stats, because I asked how many games you have watched and you avoided the question. I assume you are going by stats because you said the Jets aren't the primary choice where you live.

I don't think I am the foremost expert on the Jets and never said as much. But I have a pretty good idea when someone is full of shit and my meter is exploding reading each of your replies in this thread. I guess watching highlights makes someone more knowledgable than someone that watches every single play week in and week out.

Like you said, par for the course for the internet. Make a stupid comment, get mad if someone responds to it and avoid all simple questions that will reveal how full of shit you are.

thank you for at least clarifying the part about NO upside as that was not me. The mix up came in post 43 when you were replying to me and mentioned the NO upside comment. My apologies....
If you cant figure out what not alot more upside means then...well maybe you just wont understand. Players can improve. And I do expect sanchez to improve. What I think your not understanding from MY opinion is that I dont think that improvement gets him anywhere near a top five quarterback. Now thats not too say he wont have a stellar game here or there. They all do! But on a CONSISTENT basis, I am of the opinion that he will be right about number ten along with Cutler, Cassell...
As to whether or not you think your an expert on the jets, well your words say it for you. You point blank said that you know more then more then someone who doesnt WATCH them as much as you do. Now the term expert can be debated...and although you never used that term ( I did). I stand beside the comment I made about watching them. Just because you may have seen more jets games then someone else does NOT make you more knowledgeable. You may think it does.....
Let me give you this analogy to show you what I mean....
Do you ONLY bet on horses or teams which you have personally seen? If not, how can you bet on a horse you never seen? Based on your explanation of how much one knows due to the amount of time they have seen something...well then you would be betting in the dark...right? I have seen some of your handicapping here...and I dont think your betting in the dark.
So how do you arrive at your conclussions? Numbers?? No can't be that...you have already mentioned that stats have no real comparison...right??
Or is it that those things only apply when in referrence to your opinions?? lol
Lastly, and I will leave it at this....you say you dont knock or degarde others...yet in almost EVERY post you do it....
You infer that I am STUPID and am full of shit.....
Just read your post above...."make a stupid comment..." " reveal how full of shit you are"...
You really should learn how to be a bit more repectful of others and there opinions. And you call us at getting mad lol. I am not the one degrading others. I dont think I called you stupid anywhere...and I know i didnt say you were full of shit. But thats cool...just next time...understand this...you want to take it to that level...no problem. I can get as dirty as the next person. I show as little repsect for you as you do towards me. I would like to believe you can keep it above board...but if not...I am fine either way :)

[newtothegame]

p.s I have answered all of the questions....your the one that refuses to address the questions posed....
Did you reply to any of the questions I posed about what determines how good a qb is? W's, stats, what?? Nope...you didnt...then you try to pin it on me as I didnt answer your question about how many games of the jets I watched. I watched N.O make sanchez look exactly the way I am describing in person last year...does that count??

[Dahoss9698]

thank you for at least clarifying the part about NO upside as that was not me. The mix up came in post 43 when you were replying to me and mentioned the NO upside comment. My apologies....
If you cant figure out what not alot more upside means then...well maybe you just wont understand. Players can improve. And I do expect sanchez to improve. What I think your not understanding from MY opinion is that I dont think that improvement gets him anywhere near a top five quarterback. Now thats not too say he wont have a stellar game here or there. They all do! But on a CONSISTENT basis, I am of the opinion that he will be right about number ten along with Cutler, Cassell...
As to whether or not you think your an expert on the jets, well your words say it for you. You point blank said that you know more then more then someone who doesnt WATCH them as much as you do. Now the term expert can be debated...and although you never used that term ( I did). I stand beside the comment I made about watching them. Just because you may have seen more jets games then someone else does NOT make you more knowledgeable. You may think it does.....
Let me give you this analogy to show you what I mean....
Do you ONLY bet on horses or teams which you have personally seen? If not, how can you bet on a horse you never seen? Based on your explanation of how much one knows due to the amount of time they have seen something...well then you would be betting in the dark...right? I have seen some of your handicapping here...and I dont think your betting in the dark.
So how do you arrive at your conclussions? Numbers?? No can't be that...you have already mentioned that stats have no real comparison...right??
Or is it that those things only apply when in referrence to your opinions?? lol
Lastly, and I will leave it at this....you say you dont knock or degarde others...yet in almost EVERY post you do it....
You infer that I am STUPID and am full of shit.....
Just read your post above...."make a stupid comment..." " reveal how full of shit you are"...
You really should learn how to be a bit more repectful of others and there opinions. And you call us at getting mad lol. I am not the one degrading others. I dont think I called you stupid anywhere...and I know i didnt say you were full of shit. But thats cool...just next time...understand this...you want to take it to that level...no problem. I can get as dirty as the next person. I show as little repsect for you as you do towards me. I would like to believe you can keep it above board...but if not...I am fine either way :)

Yes, I know more about the Jets as a team than someone that doesn't watch them. I don't know why that seems like a weird thing. When I handicap horses or sports I like to have as much information as possible. I'm crazy like that. So, unless I am betting on a first timer I can guarantee I have seen replays of almost every horse I wager on. And multiple replays of a few of their races. That's a major part of my handicappping. What I am saying is, it seems like you never watch them. So, stats don't tell the entire story. I can't put it any simpler and we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.

I never said I don't knock others and I appreciate the lesson in morality. But I asked a simple question about how many Jets games you have watched the last two years and you had no answer. Why is that?

[newtothegame]

Yes, I know more about the Jets as a team than someone that doesn't watch them. I don't know why that seems like a weird thing. When I handicap horses or sports I like to have as much information as possible. I'm crazy like that. So, unless I am betting on a first timer I can guarantee I have seen replays of almost every horse I wager on. And multiple replays of a few of their races. That's a major part of my handicappping. What I am saying is, it seems like you never watch them. So, stats don't tell the entire story. I can't put it any simpler and we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.

I never said I don't knock others and I appreciate the lesson in morality. But I asked a simple question about how many Jets games you have watched the last two years and you had no answer. Why is that?
The reason you never got an answer is you never answered mine. You like to have people answer yours but your above answering theirs?? If that's the case, just say you have no replies and end the conversation. In my opinion, in order to have a conversation, you have to have a back and forth. One sided (in this case answers) seems like a waste of time.
But, if you must, I get three to four games a year live of the Jets depending on local broadcast of CBS, FOX, or NFL replays. I also read EVERY write up through mainstream media of every game at the end of the day. Sometimes, deeper based on key players and injuries.
Just as you make it your priority to follow horses, I follow football. It used to be about the game and enjoyment. Then I found out I could make money doing it through wagers and fantasy. So I make it my business to know the stats. Along with the stats, their is a story if you read into the numbers. But, its not the ONLY piece to a story...just a part of the story. In this case, I gave my "stats" on sanchez to which you have yet to argue. I never said stats was the end all be all. But, in a YOUNG persons career, they can be a telling part. Just as in a horses. Your right about seeing them though...that's one part that you have to take into account. that's what replays as you mentioned are for. We just see two different things...and thats ok. As you said, we will just agree to disagree at this point on sanchez and his abilities!
P.S thanks for a reply without something derogatory....it's appreciated and duly noted!

[Dahoss9698]

The reason you never got an answer is you never answered mine. You like to have people answer yours but your above answering theirs?? If that's the case, just say you have no replies and end the conversation. In my opinion, in order to have a conversation, you have to have a back and forth. One sided (in this case answers) seems like a waste of time.
But, if you must, I get three to four games a year live of the Jets depending on local broadcast of CBS, FOX, or NFL replays. I also read EVERY write up through mainstream media of every game at the end of the day. Sometimes, deeper based on key players and injuries.
Just as you make it your priority to follow horses, I follow football. It used to be about the game and enjoyment. Then I found out I could make money doing it through wagers and fantasy. So I make it my business to know the stats. Along with the stats, their is a story if you read into the numbers. But, its not the ONLY piece to a story...just a part of the story. In this case, I gave my "stats" on sanchez to which you have yet to argue. I never said stats was the end all be all. But, in a YOUNG persons career, they can be a telling part. Just as in a horses. Your right about seeing them though...that's one part that you have to take into account. that's what replays as you mentioned are for. We just see two different things...and thats ok. As you said, we will just agree to disagree at this point on sanchez and his abilities!
P.S thanks for a reply without something derogatory....it's appreciated and duly noted!

No problem. I appreciate disingenuous posts, so we're even.

I saw the stats you posted and I am aware of them. However it has nothing to do with the conversation, which is why I haven't addressed them. I came into this thread to disagree with the contention Sanchez has no upside. It's an opinion and it has to do with what he will do in the future.

I trust my eye and I know that sounds arrogant, but I think betting takes a certain degree of arrogance. Either way it should be interesting to see how his career unfolds. If I could I would bet money he will have a nice career. Not a hall of fame career, but a solid career.

[newtothegame]

No problem. I appreciate disingenuous posts, so we're even.

I saw the stats you posted and I am aware of them. However it has nothing to do with the conversation, which is why I haven't addressed them. I came into this thread to disagree with the contention Sanchez has no upside. It's an opinion and it has to do with what he will do in the future.

I trust my eye and I know that sounds arrogant, but I think betting takes a certain degree of arrogance. Either way it should be interesting to see how his career unfolds. If I could I would bet money he will have a nice career. Not a hall of fame career, but a solid career.

I hope your eye is better at sanchez then reading my post. Nothing disengeuos about it. I do appreciate the non snoddy comments. It is possible to have discussions and not be degrading. It only takes away from the actual discussion topic.
As to sanchez, I wish him the best. Ive mentioned before I like the young man.
The even better part of all of this is what makes sport so great...two people looking at the same thing can see different things. You want to know what I think that means??
Wagering pools :)
That's why I stay out of the horse racing ones for now as I trust your eyes are better then mine. But I will gladly stay in the football ones :)

[Dahoss9698]

I hope your eye is better at sanchez then reading my post. Nothing disengeuos about it. I do appreciate the non snoddy comments. It is possible to have discussions and not be degrading. It only takes away from the actual discussion topic.


You telling me how to post is the exact same thing as me being degrading. You are being slightly "nicer" about it, but we are both being sarcastic. You know what takes away from a discussion topic? Talking about something you have limited knowledge about.

I hope your NFL betting is better than your posting here.

[newtothegame]

You telling me how to post is the exact same thing as me being degrading. You are being slightly "nicer" about it, but we are both being sarcastic. You know what takes away from a discussion topic? Talking about something you have limited knowledge about.

I hope your NFL betting is better than your posting here.

lol...me telling you how to post ONLY comes AFTER your poor attempt at degredation of my post. But thats ok...since you can't seem to leave the "downgrading others alone, I too am very glad to see your handicapping is better at your piss poor postings where you take cheap shots at others. Maybe it was your childhood? Not get enough of momma's milk? Course I know that will be another answer you will leave alone as you can't seem to answer anyone yet you expect answers. :lol: Your definitely were deprived of something as a child. You got my point! Now if you wish to take it further, we can. I can go all day with degrading remarks and can make them as ugly as ya like.
And yes, my NFL betting is just fine...thanks for your concern.

[PhantomOnTour]

DaHoss,
Quit being such a coullion.

[Dahoss9698]

lol...me telling you how to post ONLY comes AFTER your poor attempt at degredation of my post. But thats ok...since you can't seem to leave the "downgrading others alone, I too am very glad to see your handicapping is better at your piss poor postings where you take cheap shots at others. Maybe it was your childhood? Not get enough of momma's milk? Course I know that will be another answer you will leave alone as you can't seem to answer anyone yet you expect answers. :lol: Your definitely were deprived of something as a child. You got my point! Now if you wish to take it further, we can. I can go all day with degrading remarks and can make them as ugly as ya like.
And yes, my NFL betting is just fine...thanks for your concern.

I just hope your betting is better than your command of the English language.

Imagine all of this because you have seen 1/4 of the Jets games this year, yet think you are an expert on them because you watch highlights and play fantasy football. Only on the internet.

[Dahoss9698]

DaHoss,
Quit being such a coullion.

Quit being a milksop.

[PhantomOnTour]

Awesome, that ignore thing works great...now i don't have to read anymore of DaHoss boude'ing all the livelong day.
Lache pas la patate my friend...

I know you will have an immediate comeback but I won't see it! :lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Called that one, didn't I?

[Cardus]

I can believe that there are people who think that Sanchez "has no upside" -- this being Internet Land -- but this opinion is certainly premature, and probably foolish.

You are talking about a quarterback who was 30 minutes away from the Super Bowl in his first year. And he made throws in all three playoff games last year that show he can play big in big games.

The number one thing emphasized prior to this season, regarding Sanchez, was reducing turnovers, specifically interceptions. He'll meet that goal.

He has thrown a lot more passes than last year already, and there are three more games to play.

Their running game is not near what is was at the end of last season; the offensive line, missing Faneca in the running game, has been inconsistent; and the defense allows a lot of yards.

And to the prodigious poster of this thread (Newtothegame?): how can you mention the Jets receiving corps without mentioning Dustin Keller, who was HUGE for Sanchez early this year?

Trent Dilfer's breakdown of Sanchez early this week was sensational regarding him playing in cold weather: mechanical things that can be fixed.

Sanchez will be fine.

[cj]

I can believe that there are people who think that Sanchez "has no upside" -- this being Internet Land -- but this opinion is certainly premature, and probably foolish.

You are talking about a quarterback who was 30 minutes away from the Super Bowl in his first year. And he made throws in all three playoff games last year that show he can play big in big games.

The number one thing emphasized prior to this season, regarding Sanchez, was reducing turnovers, specifically interceptions. He'll meet that goal.

He has thrown a lot more passes than last year already, and there are three more games to play.

Their running game is not near what is was at the end of last season; the offensive line, missing Faneca in the running game, has been inconsistent; and the defense allows a lot of yards.

And to the prodigious poster of this thread (Newtothegame?): how can you mention the Jets receiving corps without mentioning Dustin Keller, who was HUGE for Sanchez early this year?

Trent Dilfer's breakdown of Sanchez early this week was sensational regarding him playing in cold weather: mechanical things that can be fixed.

Sanchez will be fine.

Sanchez is a guy that can win a Super Bowl with a really good team. Sanchez is not a guy that will ever be the main reason a team wins the Super Bowl. Those guys are few and far between.

If Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Jim McMahon can win SBs, so can Mark Sanchez.

[slew101]

Add Brad Johnson to that list.

Sanchez is a guy that can win a Super Bowl with a really good team. Sanchez is not a guy that will ever be the main reason a team wins the Super Bowl. Those guys are few and far between.

If Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Jim McMahon can win SBs, so can Mark Sanchez.

[newtothegame]

I can believe that there are people who think that Sanchez "has no upside" -- this being Internet Land -- but this opinion is certainly premature, and probably foolish.

You are talking about a quarterback who was 30 minutes away from the Super Bowl in his first year. And he made throws in all three playoff games last year that show he can play big in big games.

The number one thing emphasized prior to this season, regarding Sanchez, was reducing turnovers, specifically interceptions. He'll meet that goal.

He has thrown a lot more passes than last year already, and there are three more games to play.

Their running game is not near what is was at the end of last season; the offensive line, missing Faneca in the running game, has been inconsistent; and the defense allows a lot of yards.

And to the prodigious poster of this thread (Newtothegame?): how can you mention the Jets receiving corps without mentioning Dustin Keller, who was HUGE for Sanchez early this year?

Trent Dilfer's breakdown of Sanchez early this week was sensational regarding him playing in cold weather: mechanical things that can be fixed.

Sanchez will be fine.

First cardus...I was not the poster of this thread...only a commentor in the thread...but thanks :faint: .
Next, your right...I didnt mention keller...which only supports my theory even more...which is sanchez has ALOT of weapons!
There are ALOT of people out there...not just in internet land, who also hold the opinion about sanchez (that although good, has limited upside).
But that's why they are called opinions.....we all have them and they usually stink lol.

[Dahoss9698]

In continuing with my theme of not trying to make a big deal out of one game, I won't gloat. But Sanchez played very well today and did everything he needs to do. Not turn the ball over, make some plays and most important of all manage the game.

You can't get that stuff from highlights and just looking at stats. You actually have to watch the games.

[newtothegame]

In continuing with my theme of not trying to make a big deal out of one game, I won't gloat. But Sanchez played very well today and did everything he needs to do. Not turn the ball over, make some plays and most important of all manage the game.

You can't get that stuff from highlights and just looking at stats. You actually have to watch the games.
And I did watch the game...and I , like you, thought he had a good game. But just as a slump does not make a QB's career, neither does a good game. I think we both have to agree that CONSISTENCY.....is the key. Once I see consistency from this young man one way or another, I will better formulate my opinion.
But, with all the being said, congrats to the Jets for a nice win on the road!

[Dahoss9698]

And I did watch the game...and I , like you, thought he had a good game. But just as a slump does not make a QB's career, neither does a good game. I think we both have to agree that CONSISTENCY.....is the key. Once I see consistency from this young man one way or another, I will better formulate my opinion.
But, with all the being said, congrats to the Jets for a nice win on the road!

It's tough to see consistency in highlights and fantasy football stats. Which goes back to my point about actually watching the games. You don't see the pass to Holmes in the first half that sets up a 1st and goal only to be brought back because of a bad holding penalty by Slauson (feels like I mentioned him as a liability). Lots of things happen within a game that don't make the highlights that end up being plays that matter.

[newtothegame]

It's tough to see consistency in highlights and fantasy football stats. Which goes back to my point about actually watching the games. You don't see the pass to Holmes in the first half that sets up a 1st and goal only to be brought back because of a bad holding penalty by Slauson (feels like I mentioned him as a liability). Lots of things happen within a game that don't make the highlights that end up being plays that matter.

LOL you continue to harp on the stats and highlights...did I not just say I WATCHED the game??
My SOLE form of information is not just numbers....lol
But nice try!

[Dahoss9698]

LOL you continue to harp on the stats and highlights...did I not just say I WATCHED the game??
My SOLE form of information is not just numbers....lol
But nice try!

I'm not harping on anything. I was making a valid point about the difference between watching games and being a fantasy football player. Nothing more, nothing less.

[mountainman]

In continuing with my theme of not trying to make a big deal out of one game, I won't gloat. But Sanchez played very well today and did everything he needs to do. Not turn the ball over, make some plays and most important of all manage the game.

You can't get that stuff from highlights and just looking at stats. You actually have to watch the games.

Good call on the game. I died a thousand deaths watching it. My brother and I have tickets for Carolina, though, and at least that contest becomes crucial now, rather than one the steelers could blow off.

[Ocala Mike]

My brother and I have tickets for Carolina, though, and at least that contest becomes crucial now, rather than one the steelers could blow off.


How is it crucial? Just heard on Mike and Mike that the Steelers are assured a playoff spot based on the complicated tiebreaker system in place.

Anyway, as one who "bought Sanchez on the dip" way back at the beginning of this thread, I was somewhat vindicated yesterday (although I could have bought him a lot cheaper after the Miami game).

I still think he will go from "first, do no harm" QB to top shelf QB with a few years under his belt. His game management and taking care of the ball yesterday were A+. Don't know who called the 4th down bootleg, but his execution of it was flawless; everyone on the field and watching the game on tv were faked out, certainly the cameraman. I'm wondering if his own players knew what was up, since the blocking up the middle "sold" the sneak so well.


Ocala Mike

[slew101]

It's huge for the Steelers. They are playing for a division title, the No. 2 seed and a first-round bye. The Ravens are also 10-4 but the Steelers have the tie-breaker if both teams win their last two.

[QUOTE=Ocala Mike]How is it crucial? Just heard on Mike and Mike that the Steelers are assured a playoff spot based on the complicated tiebreaker system in place.

[ldiatone]

Mountainman, going to the casino after the game? :) how about the winter classic? :) hope ya have nice seats for thrus. game

[Cardus]

Sanchez made a few fabulous throws to Edwards.

[Stillriledup]

Why do talking heads continue to tiptoe around the fact that this guy just isn't very good? Nfl analysts apparently don't consider it pc to conclude that a young player simply lacks bigtime talent, thus a green quarterback's mistakes are ALWAYS characterized as mental. It's to the point where a scatter-armed Sanchez can heave a short pass 20 feet over his receiver's head and commentators call it part of the "maturation" process.

I don't think they realize that the mental aspect of sports is almost totally reliant on the physical. Without quick mobility that comes second nature, the sort of strength and balance that engenders confidence in tight quarters and good peripheral vision that cues exceptional hand/ eye coordination, the cerebral aspect of football will never come easily, if at all. The mental part is mostly physical. Consequently, Sanchez HAS no upside. Adequate journeyman is as good as it MIGHT get.

Sanchez is a special player. What's his career NFL record so far, i bet its over .500.

He's very young for football standards, he's got very little college experience and he's a west coast QB, so he's just learning to play in the poor weather.

Last year he went into San Diego and won a road playoff game vs a very good team.

You're also wrong about the quick mobility, Sanchez has quick feet and he's smart and always looking to learn. There's a huge learning curve in the NFL for elite QB's, its a very hard position to play. Sanchez has HUGE upside.

[KingChas]

I still think losing safety Jim Leonhard, who calls the defensive signals in the secondary a couple days before the Pats game to a freak practice injury threw the Jets into a little funk, team wise.
Not just Sanchez.

It is true they haven't played spectacular in most games this season.
But still have managed to get the job done...so far.


But I am also sure you will see a much better team once the playoff's start.

Ala......... Rex and the crew.

[mountainman]

Mountainman, going to the casino after the game? :) how about the winter classic? :) hope ya have nice seats for thrus. game

TX man. We had a great time. I got the tickets as a xmas gift from our director of racing. We parked about 4 blocks past the Clemente bridge and ate at a cool sports bar called "So Ho's." I doubt that anyone who hasn't experienced the whole scene can really comprehend the rowdy sea of (well-imbibed) humanity that is steeler nation. There can't be anything quite like it.

[mountainman]

Sanchez is a special player.

Since this thread was intended to stimulate debate, I appreciate your feedback. I just disagree with it.

[Stillriledup]

Since this thread was intended to stimulate debate, I appreciate your feedback. I just disagree with it.

Sanchez played very little college ball, there's historical proof that even the best QBs of all time had learning curves. Mark is in his learning curve right now, and he's doing extremely well for a guy who rarely played before he got to the Pros. The sky is the limit i believe. Hopefully he can stay healthy.

[Stillriledup]

I still think losing safety Jim Leonhard, who calls the defensive signals in the secondary a couple days before the Pats game to a freak practice injury threw the Jets into a little funk, team wise.
Not just Sanchez.

It is true they haven't played spectacular in most games this season.
But still have managed to get the job done...so far.


But I am also sure you will see a much better team once the playoff's start.

Ala......... Rex and the crew.

Fantastic point, Leonard's injury and the timing of it was everything.

[Dahoss9698]

Since this thread was intended to stimulate debate, I appreciate your feedback. I just disagree with it.

For what it's worth I disagree with it also. I think he has the ability to be a better than average QB, but not special by any means. I hope I'm wrong.

[mountainman]

Sanchez played very little college ball, there's historical proof that even the best QBs of all time had learning curves. Mark is in his learning curve right now, and he's doing extremely well for a guy who rarely played before he got to the Pros. The sky is the limit i believe. Hopefully he can stay healthy.

I think he's a somewhat weak and inaccurate passer who poses no threat to run. I also think the Jet's defense has at numerous times made up for his shortcomings. The day of Trent Dilfer has passed. It's now a quarterback's league with an unprecedented number of supremely gifted players at the position. Sanchez's skills are very limited, thus the Jets can't match up at quarterback with many teams sporting similar records. Too many fans have been brainwashed by talking heads into believing that youth and talent are synonymous terms.There will come a point when Sanchez's poor productivity can no longer be attributed to inexperience. That's just my opinion, and I might one day be proven wrong.

[mountainman]

For what it's worth I disagree with it also. I think he has the ability to be a better than average QB, but not special by any means. I hope I'm wrong.

I can't BELIEVE they are making an issue of Rex's wife doing those foot videos. In fact, if that's his worst kink, the man should be nominated for sainthood. lol.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't BELIEVE they are making an issue of Rex's wife doing those foot videos. In fact, if that's his worst kink, the man should be nominated for sainthood. lol.I can believe it...Jason Whitlock wrote an interesting piece about all of this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/rex-ryan-foot-fetish-video-New-Yorkk-Jets-coach-latest-embarassment-122310

[Dahoss9698]

I can't BELIEVE they are making an issue of Rex's wife doing those foot videos. In fact, if that's his worst kink, the man should be nominated for sainthood. lol.

I can't either. Who cares really? I've found a lot of the criticism directed towards Ryan this year to be pretty funny. From the swearing during Hard Knocks (wow, what a revelation, coaches in professional sports swear) to having fun during the week. I think there is room for coaches like him and coaches like Belichick. Both effective, with drastically different styles.....and players love playing for them both.

[mountainman]

I can believe it...Jason Whitlock wrote an interesting piece about all of this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/rex-ryan-foot-fetish-video-New-Yorkk-Jets-coach-latest-embarassment-122310

I read Whitlock regularly and usually agree with him. But not this time. Ryan is a good coach and this latest disclosure is mere trivia to anyone except reporters conditioned to mine his colorful persona for material. C'mon, do you really think some special teams player with a screaming Ryan in his face is going to find the coach's strong presence or air of authority much compromised by some foot fetish? If anything, this incident further humanizes a man well on his way to proving that an NFL coach can behave like a real person and still succeed. Sports writers are hypocritical for both relishing and condemning refreshingly original behavior. On one hand they want some participant to step far enough out of line to sell copies, but at the same time they function as stodgy (and self-appointed) keepers of the staus quo. They want it both ways.

[Stillriledup]

I think he's a somewhat weak and inaccurate passer who poses no threat to run. I also think the Jet's defense has at numerous times made up for his shortcomings. The day of Trent Dilfer has passed. It's now a quarterback's league with an unprecedented number of supremely gifted players at the position. Sanchez's skills are very limited, thus the Jets can't match up at quarterback with many teams sporting similar records. Too many fans have been brainwashed by talking heads into believing that youth and talent are synonymous terms.There will come a point when Sanchez's poor productivity can no longer be attributed to inexperience. That's just my opinion, and I might one day be proven wrong.


So, he didn't naked bootleg a TD vs Pittsburgh? That wasn't running? :D

I see what you're saying, i just personally put a lot of stock in the experience factor and especially this guy who didnt play much college FB. If he's still the same QB 5 years from now, i'll come back to this thread and bump it and admit i was wrong.

[PaceAdvantage]

i'll come back to this thread and bump itOf this we have no doubt.

[headhawg]

I can't BELIEVE they are making an issue of Rex's wife doing those foot videos. In fact, if that's his worst kink, the man should be nominated for sainthood. lol.There has been some speculation that Ryan has been linked to wife-swapping sites, so I guess it's all how you want to define kink...

As far as Sanchez, he looks to me like a good but not a fabulous QB. Sometimes when he is good he looks great, but he is not consistent enough for me. He is also not asked to win games -- he's more of a game manager with that running game and defense -- and I think he needs to complete more than 55% of his passes for that role to be considered a more-than-just-good quarterback. He still has time to develop -- his upside -- but I think that he might be missing what the coaches/scouts like to call "intangibles".

My prediction is that he will be an above-average quarterback but not one of the elites. I'm thinking more Tony Romo then Tom Brady.

[newtothegame]

There has been some speculation that Ryan has been linked to wife-swapping sites, so I guess it's all how you want to define kink...

As far as Sanchez, he looks to me like a good but not a fabulous QB. Sometimes when he is good he looks great, but he is not consistent enough for me. He is also not asked to win games -- he's more of a game manager with that running game and defense -- and I think he needs to complete more than 55% of his passes for that role to be considered a more-than-just-good quarterback. He still has time to develop -- his upside -- but I think that he might be missing what the coaches/scouts like to call "intangibles".

My prediction is that he will be an above-average quarterback but not one of the elites. I'm thinking more Tony Romo then Tom Brady.
Better be careful hawg....dahoss will be along shortly to tell you how you have no clue what your talking about....I mean using stats and all lol

[headhawg]

Nah, I think that I just agreed with what dahoss wrote in his last post. He's also right that stats aren't everything and certainly an "eye" test needs to be given before blindly making a judgment. So my opinion is based on what I've seen of him (admittedly not a whole lot, but then again I'm not a scout) and his stats.

Most of the time when the eye test and the stats match the only thing left is to predict whether or not the player has peaked. IMO he's got room to improve and I've seen him make enough really good throws to be above average. Whether or not he has the mental toughness and NFL football IQ to be more than average remains to be seen.

[newtothegame]

Sad part is I basically have said the same thing...
I believe he has upside...(although limited)....
I believe he is above average,......(top ten) .......
I have seen a few of his games....and I have also said he needs to be more "consistent".....
But somehow, that means I am wrong...:lol:
I have mentioned his completion percentage being in the LOWER half of all qb's.
But hey, I also have said I like the young man and I wish him the best.
There are some who have "drawn" comparisons to Manning. Which is what ultimately brought me into this thread.
Now dahoss said he wasnt making a comparison to Manning.....and I take him for his word. But, the post is there and I believe he mentioned that even "manning has slumps".......
Problem with that analogy was Manning has also been TOP TIER for 8 years or more. He has had the colts in the playoffs with ten plus wins for 8 years I believe. There is no comparison!
But, back to sanchez.....
A good (better then average qb) who will do well with the right coaching and progressions.

[Valuist]

It would appear he will get another chance tomorrow to prove himself in sub-freezing weather. Should also get some snow for this one. This would be the Bears' 3rd straight game in the snow.

[Dahoss9698]

Sad part is I basically have said the same thing...
I believe he has upside...(although limited)....
I believe he is above average,......(top ten) .......
I have seen a few of his games....and I have also said he needs to be more "consistent".....
But somehow, that means I am wrong...:lol:
I have mentioned his completion percentage being in the LOWER half of all qb's.
But hey, I also have said I like the young man and I wish him the best.
There are some who have "drawn" comparisons to Manning. Which is what ultimately brought me into this thread.
Now dahoss said he wasnt making a comparison to Manning.....and I take him for his word. But, the post is there and I believe he mentioned that even "manning has slumps".......
Problem with that analogy was Manning has also been TOP TIER for 8 years or more. He has had the colts in the playoffs with ten plus wins for 8 years I believe. There is no comparison!
But, back to sanchez.....
A good (better then average qb) who will do well with the right coaching and progressions.

It's weird, it's almost as if you haven't read my posts at all. Either that or you just aren't bright enough to understand what I am saying.

One more time, I never compared Sanchez to manning. I said everyone goes through slumps and mentioned Manning because he happened to be going through one also. Again, I'm not comparing the two of them as QB's because there is no comparison. Manning is much better than Sanchez is. I was just saying over the course of the year everyone will go through a slump. No comparison's, just stating they all go through slumps. Hopefully I've cleared this part up so you can finally get over it (I doubt it).

My other point, which again seems pretty easy to understand is that you can't just judge players like you would if it were a fantasy football draft. Watching the games gives you a much better idea of a persons talent than just blindly looking at stats. That was why I asked how many games you had actually seen. There are things you see (good and bad) in actually viewing a game, that you can't see in the stats.

[newtothegame]

It's weird, it's almost as if you haven't read my posts at all. Either that or you just aren't bright enough to understand what I am saying.

One more time, I never compared Sanchez to manning. I said everyone goes through slumps and mentioned Manning because he happened to be going through one also. Again, I'm not comparing the two of them as QB's because there is no comparison. Manning is much better than Sanchez is. I was just saying over the course of the year everyone will go through a slump. No comparison's, just stating they all go through slumps. Hopefully I've cleared this part up so you can finally get over it (I doubt it).

My other point, which again seems pretty easy to understand is that you can't just judge players like you would if it were a fantasy football draft. Watching the games gives you a much better idea of a persons talent than just blindly looking at stats. That was why I asked how many games you had actually seen. There are things you see (good and bad) in actually viewing a game, that you can't see in the stats.

LOL.....I have but one thing to say to you......
It's weird, it's almost as if you haven't read my posts at all. Either that or you just aren't bright enough to understand what I am saying.

You accuse me of not reading your post, but what got you all in my post anyway?? cause I have said the same things you have basically said about sanchez? Maybe I didnt say them to your liking? Maybe I didnt use your wording?? And you accuse me of not reading?? LOL.
Then your back to your old ways of demeaning people....
Last warning for you......I will gladly take a TOS and get banned by Mike. But, I refuse to allow your wanna be pretend little punk ass talk to me as if I am your child. Obviously, you have no concept of the term "opinions" and what they mean. You are entitled to yours, just as others are theirs!
Now I could take the high road and ignore you.....
But why do that? I told you last time, I can bring it to your level. Not a problem with me.....
I anxiously await your next demeaning post........

[Dahoss9698]

LOL.....I have but one thing to say to you......
It's weird, it's almost as if you haven't read my posts at all. Either that or you just aren't bright enough to understand what I am saying.

You accuse me of not reading your post, but what got you all in my post anyway?? cause I have said the same things you have basically said about sanchez? Maybe I didnt say them to your liking? Maybe I didnt use your wording?? And you accuse me of not reading?? LOL.
Then your back to your old ways of demeaning people....
Last warning for you......I will gladly take a TOS and get banned by Mike. But, I refuse to allow your wanna be pretend little punk ass talk to me as if I am your child. Obviously, you have no concept of the term "opinions" and what they mean. You are entitled to yours, just as others are theirs!
Now I could take the high road and ignore you.....
But why do that? I told you last time, I can bring it to your level. Not a problem with me.....
I anxiously await your next demeaning post........

You start trouble after it was over a week ago and I'm the one with the issue? You tried to involve someone else into it, it backfires and this is your response? Hilarious....

Maybe if you stopped acting like a child I wouldn't talk to you like one. Of course we're all allowed our opinions. Just as we're allowed to disagree with others opinions. You said your piece and I said mine. We'll agree to disagree, it's fine with me. The one who seems angry about it is you.

You can bring it to whatever level you want. But remember Mr. High Road, you are the one looking for a fight, not me. It was over on my end, because it's useless wasting my time arguing with someone who is so clueless about basic concepts.

[newtothegame]

You start trouble after it was over a week ago and I'm the one with the issue? You tried to involve someone else into it, it backfires and this is your response? Hilarious....

Maybe if you stopped acting like a child I wouldn't talk to you like one. Of course we're all allowed our opinions. Just as we're allowed to disagree with others opinions. You said your piece and I said mine. We'll agree to disagree, it's fine with me. The one who seems angry about it is you.

You can bring it to whatever level you want. But remember Mr. High Road, you are the one looking for a fight, not me. It was over on my end, because it's useless wasting my time arguing with someone who is so clueless about basic concepts.

BS asshole...I didnt "start" anything. Child?? lol I have no issue at all with the disgareements......after all, thats what opinions are usually. I have a problem with your demeaning ass comments towards me. You might be able to tell the rest of the guys and gals whatever you want and get away with it....but me, I will go tit for tat with ya. Doesnt matter to me. As I said...talk sensibly, I will provide you the same courtesy. Talk like a ****ing prick.....I will treat you with the same courtesy..Ball in your court!

[Dahoss9698]

BS asshole...I didnt "start" anything. Child?? lol I have no issue at all with the disgareements......after all, thats what opinions are usually. I have a problem with your demeaning ass comments towards me. You might be able to tell the rest of the guys and gals whatever you want and get away with it....but me, I will go tit for tat with ya. Doesnt matter to me. As I said...talk sensibly, I will provide you the same courtesy. Talk like a ****ing prick.....I will treat you with the same courtesy..Ball in your court!

Yeah, you're really putting me in my place here. What you really have a problem with is me making a valid point about watching games and you having no response.

As I said, it was over on my end a week ago. I've got better things to do (especially today) than argue with you about nothing. I made my points about Sanchez and all of the other stuff. You disagree. I'll try and find a way to get over it.

[newtothegame]

Yeah, you're really putting me in my place here. What you really have a problem with is me making a valid point about watching games and you having no response.

As I said, it was over on my end a week ago. I've got better things to do (especially today) than argue with you about nothing. I made my points about Sanchez and all of the other stuff. You disagree. I'll try and find a way to get over it.
What? a response without something demaning??? Can it be???
Well, as I said...one deserves one....
We have agreed the whole time about sanchez. You just seem to think you know more cause you "saw" more of him. That's ok...I even agreed that visual adds more as well. So I am not sure why you find the need to be demeaning.
I will treat you as you treat me......respectfully or otherwise!

[Dahoss9698]

What? a response without something demaning??? Can it be???
Well, as I said...one deserves one....
We have agreed the whole time about sanchez. You just seem to think you know more cause you "saw" more of him. That's ok...I even agreed that visual adds more as well. So I am not sure why you find the need to be demeaning.
I will treat you as you treat me......respectfully or otherwise!

Such a victim. Poor thing...

[newtothegame]

Such a victim. Poor thing...

lol...for someone who didnt have time to respond to me, you sure cant drop it can ya.....
You know these atrractions you are showing result from your childhood. and you call me poor...lol

[Dahoss9698]

lol...for someone who didnt have time to respond to me, you sure cant drop it can ya.....
You know these atrractions you are showing result from your childhood. and you call me poor...lol

I dropped it a week ago. Since it's obvious you desperately need the last word it's amusing to me to make you keep responding.

[newtothegame]

I dropped it a week ago. Since it's obvious you desperately need the last word it's amusing to me to make you keep responding.

I wasnt the one who said they had better things to do....guess your true colors are showing....:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

I wasnt the one who said they had better things to do....guess your true colors are showing....:lol:

I knew it.

[newtothegame]

I knew it.

There ya go with the know it all mindset.....
Please tell...what was it you "knew"? That you lied from the start about better things to do? Or me wanting to have the last word? (as you cant seem to let it go).
You consistently attempting to belittle people?
Please oh great one...tell us all what you "knew"???

[Dahoss9698]

There ya go with the know it all mindset.....
Please tell...what was it you "knew"? That you lied from the start about better things to do? Or me wanting to have the last word? (as you cant seem to let it go).
You consistently attempting to belittle people?
Please oh great one...tell us all what you "knew"???

I knew I could get you on full tilt with little to no effort.

I lied? :lol: I'm going to get back to spending time with my family and friends. You keep trying to "get me" because I offended you so bad by disagreeing with you and having the audacity to ask you how many Jets games you have watched.

[newtothegame]

I knew I could get you on full tilt with little to no effort.

I lied? :lol: I'm going to get back to spending time with my family and friends. You keep trying to "get me" because I offended you so bad by disagreeing with you and having the audacity to ask you how many Jets games you have watched.

lol there ya go "knowing" everything about everything.....
You have been expposed for who and what you really are...
Liar....antagonist (by your own admission)....
Go take your binky and go play little one.....:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

lol there ya go "knowing" everything about everything.....
You have been expposed for who and what you really are...
Liar....antagonist (by your own admission)....
Go take your binky and go play little one.....:lol:

Must be one hell of a Christmas at your place today for you to be carrying on like this. I'm jealous.

[newtothegame]

Must be one hell of a Christmas at your place today for you to be carrying on like this. I'm jealous.

How will your family ever get by without all of your knowledge???? lol
Did you just say you were getting back to them?? ANOTHER lie????
True colors lol

[newtothegame]

yep, thats what ya said.....
"I'm going to get back to spending time with my family and friends."

[Dahoss9698]

How will your family ever get by without all of your knowledge???? lol
Did you just say you were getting back to them?? ANOTHER lie????
True colors lol

You know someone is outmatched and on tilt when the lol's start flowing. It's funny, I used to see your inane ramblings and think to myself, "wow, what an idiot". I'm just glad I've had the chance to experience it firsthand finally.

[newtothegame]

You know someone is outmatched and on tilt when the lol's start flowing. It's funny, I used to see your inane ramblings and think to myself, "wow, what an idiot". I'm just glad I've had the chance to experience it firsthand finally.

Im glad your experiencing it "firsthand"...cause your family isnt experiencing you. Did ya forget them that easily?? I can see how with your elitist, know everything attitude. Lie after Lie.....:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Im glad your experiencing it "firsthand"...cause your family isnt experiencing you. Did ya forget them that easily?? I can see how with your elitist, know everything attitude. Lie after Lie.....:lol:

No, we're watching a movie. I'm able to watch a movie and type on the computer at the same time. I'm good like that.

Keep hanging on every word though. We've gone from talking about Sanchez to you (the guy who spent his entire day on Christmas trying to "one up" me) trying to analyze my childhood and acting like a jealous child. What a day.

[newtothegame]

No, we're watching a movie. I'm able to watch a movie and type on the computer at the same time. I'm good like that.

Keep hanging on every word though. We've gone from talking about Sanchez to you (the guy who spent his entire day on Christmas trying to "one up" me) trying to analyze my childhood and acting like a jealous child. What a day.

Yep...its turned into a conversation about "me".....
Youve consistently lied throughout this thread....
You've consitently belittled people throughout this thread....
You try to pass your shortcommings onto others by saying others dont like to have their opinions disagreed with, yet it is YOU who can't let go....lol
You say you have no time...yet you keep coming back.....
You say your going to spend time with friends and family.....yet you stay with me....
You call yourself an "elitist" in your own words ...(as if we didnt know)....lol
Your "good like that" (again your own words)..and in your own mind lol.
So, lets refresh.....
Lie, lie, elitist, demeaning, and now we can add arrogant.....
As I said...true colors are showing for the whole board to see.....:rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

No, we're watching a movie. I'm able to watch a movie and type on the computer at the same time. I'm good like that.

Keep hanging on every word though. We've gone from talking about Sanchez to you (the guy who spent his entire day on Christmas trying to "one up" me) trying to analyze my childhood and acting like a jealous child. What a day.

Yes, you have......:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

I must be doing something right for you to be hanging on my every word.

[newtothegame]

Dahoss...I found some help for you and my christmass present to you is this help.....
It must be terrible to be so needy....hopefully it helps. Acceptance to a problem is the first step to getting better.
Ego protecting traits

Having a false sense of being superior to other people

Insecure people sometimes unconsciously overcompensate for their poor self-image by thinking they're better than other people. The common explanation for this is that they're protecting their ego, and rejecting other people before they can get rejected themselves.

[Dahoss9698]

You should spend more time worrying about yourself, than trying to analyze me.
Especially because you fail to address any of my points. You just keep trying to insult me and it's just not working. But you must have annilated guys back in 7th grade with this stuff.

[newtothegame]

all the common symptoms......:faint:

Devaluing things you're not naturally proficient at or comfortable with

Another common way people protect their egos. If you're not good at X then X isn't important.
The flip side to this is that anything you're good at is important, and should be the main basis on which you judge other people.

[newtothegame]

Now it's making sense why you didnt like the "stats".....

Dude...if there's anything I can do to help.....:lol:
Just remember, acceptance is the key!

[Dahoss9698]

I knew it.

[newtothegame]

You should spend more time worrying about yourself, than trying to analyze me.
Especially because you fail to address any of my points. You just keep trying to insult me and it's just not working. But you must have annilated guys back in 7th grade with this stuff.

Wow...this may be worse then I thought.....

Feeling like no one understands you

Quirky, atypical people often feel misunderstood.

[Dahoss9698]

You sure are putting me in my place. Maybe if you spent more time worrying about yourself you wouldn't be alone today. Just a thought.

[newtothegame]

Maybe this is why you consistently are demeaning to others...just saying...

Feeling threatened by people

If someone comes along who is objectively better than them on some dimension, they'll find a way to knock the other person back down to earth. They may disparage the other person totally.

[Dahoss9698]

What is your excuse for being so stupid?

[newtothegame]

What is your excuse for being so stupid?

all the common symptoms....wow....:faint:
Feeling threatened by people who are better than you in some way

They may chat to the other person in a passive-aggressive way and try to subtly take them down a peg.

[Dahoss9698]

You're inferring you are better than me in some way, but trying to psycho analyze me at the same time.

You can't make this stuff up...seriously.

[newtothegame]

You're inferring you are better than me in some way, but trying to psycho analyze me at the same time.

You can't make this stuff up...seriously.

Hopefully you will get the help ya need dahoss...didnt realize it was this bad...my apologies...sincerely:faint:

"An insecure person feels on shaky ground. They only feel safe if they're above everybody. If that position seems threatened, they go through some crazy mental contortions to place themselves back on top again. "

[Dahoss9698]

Hopefully you will get the help ya need dahoss...didnt realize it was this bad...my apologies...sincerely:faint:

"An insecure person feels on shaky ground. They only feel safe if they're above everybody. If that position seems threatened, they go through some crazy mental contortions to place themselves back on top again. "

Says the guy alone on Christmas, who thinks he's Mel Kiper Jr because he plays fantasy football.

[newtothegame]

Says the guy alone on Christmas, who thinks he's Mel Kiper Jr because he plays fantasy football.

Remember...acceptance is the key to help.....

" If someone is really insecure they may confront the other person head on in an attempt to discredit them and reaffirm their pretend place at the top of the pecking order ("You think you're so special? You're not because of x,y,z.")

[Dahoss9698]

Remember...acceptance is the key to help.....

" If someone is really insecure they may confront the other person head on in an attempt to discredit them and reaffirm their pretend place at the top of the pecking order ("You think you're so special? You're not because of x,y,z.")

Good point. So accept you're a douche and then move on.

[newtothegame]

Good point. So accept you're a douche and then move on.

I wish there was more I could do to help ya hoss......:faint:

"Take a look at your thinking if you always find yourself cutting down people who are in a better position than you."

[Dahoss9698]

Last word

[newtothegame]

Last word

I will leave ya on this note....I wish ya the best my friend....I have provided you with more then enough for one evening to think about. I truly feel for someone who shows so many of the symptoms. I now understand your lashing out at others is a way of crying for help.....I can only hope you take the advice and get the help ya need.....Night!

" Ideally, you want to appreciate them and maybe learn something from them. Constantly knocking people down makes you stagnant. Rather than grow, you just stay where you are and mentally prune back any challenges to your position."

[Dahoss9698]

I will leave ya on this note....I wish ya the best my friend....I have provided you with more then enough for one evening to think about. I truly feel for someone who shows so many of the symptoms. I now understand your lashing out at others is a way of crying for help.....I can only hope you take the advice and get the help ya need.....Night!

" Ideally, you want to appreciate them and maybe learn something from them. Constantly knocking people down makes you stagnant. Rather than grow, you just stay where you are and mentally prune back any challenges to your position."

I knew you needed the last word. Hell of a performance today. Idiots around the world thank you for making them look better today.