Why do trainers enter at different differences/surfaces?

[WJ47]

I'm mostly a lurker on this board, but I love it! I loved the pictures of the Saratoga trip, it is nice to have a mental picture of all of you when I read the great informative posts on this board. I believe that this is the very best board about racing on the net!

I've been curious as to why trainers will always enter their horses at distances and surfaces that the horse doesn't do well on. Like a dirt sprinter who does well at 6 furlongs will be entered for 1 mile on the turf. Is it just to exercise the horse into form? I'm not talking about a trainer that may be trying a horse on the turf for the first or second time to see if he likes it. I'm talking about a trainer who has a horse that has run on the dirt four times and won a couple and did well in the other, but has always finished poorly in many starts on the turf. It seems that if I were a trainer, I wouldn't want to risk an injury to one of my horses entering him in a race that he had no chance. I'm wondering if there is a reason for this.

I'll be interested in hearing what the excellent handicappers on this board think of this.

[dav4463]

I've wondered about this myself. My guess would be that the horse needs to run a race and there isn't a race coming up that the trainer feels "fits" his horse. So, he just runs him in what is available.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Until you hear from the excellent ones, I will give you my opinion!LOL! I believe these are some of the reasons trainers enter horses wherethey have not done well already: Save from a claim / stupid or inexperienced trainer / trying to darken form overall on PP's / giving in to owner's wild ideas / helping fill a race for the racing secretary while competing against a short field / filling a gap to qualify for easier race condition later based on date of last win, etc. All these reasons can be true depending on trainer's real intent, but my policy is a horse can do well in a type of race it isnot used to if the horse is otherwise consistent and the trainer has at least a 10% win record for the meet or year.
Some others in this group have owned or trained horses or are closer to the backside than me so you should get better answers.
I have seen some horse's PP's and subsequent races that prove it is more suited to a change (for example, an older also-ran sprinter did well when converted to a cheaper router!).

[WJ47]

I've noticed that some sprinters do win when stretching out, but some of them always show speed, and then tire badly. If I were trainer, I'd be looking for a short race instead of putting them in longer. I wonder about the form darkening, but with the injuries of all the good horses recently, it seems that they would be even more worried about the cheap stock. I've always been so puzzled by this, so I thought I'd finally ask.

Ken, actually those are alot of good reasons! I know horses can't win everytime or they would be claimed and ineligible for the allowance conditions or they face better competition.

I was just looking at the past performances of Mynameischase (the horse from Arlington who won 3 straight races at 6 furlongs and paid huge odds several months ago). Although he seems to do well as a sprinter (he is off form right now though, apparently), they have been entering him in longer races and he has been showing a little speed, then finishing last.

[hurrikane]

Sometimes it is baffeling but Ken hit most of the good reasons.

There is a tremendous amount of pressure from the secretary to fill fields. That IMO is a big part of it. And also a good way to eliminate horses if you can weed out the also rans.

[aaron]

Most trainers have to be salesman.For this reason they enter horses where they don't belong.Instead of waiting for the right spot they have to run horses for the owners.Also,there are many trainers that do not know the proper spot to enter their horses.Look at the how many trainers have terrible records.This is not an accident.They have no clue where to put the horse.I have had trainers say the horse should run well and then look at the race and even if the horse ran his best race his chance of winning the race is non exsistent.In many cases we give the trainers too much credit.For every Bobby Frankel there are 100 trainers who have no clue.These trainers sometimes win races by mistake.A horse will race itself into shape or somehow the race just falls apart and the win falls into their lap.
If you follow the NY circuit, there are trainers who no matter how good their horses form look they almost always get beat.These trainers are not just unlucky.

[takeout]

Some trainers have records that are astounding. I noticed one recently that was 0-for-107 so far this year. It would be interesting to total all of the win money that was lost on this guy's horses.

[kenwoodallpromos]

If I trained dozens of horses, I would keep a couple of losers just to help fill the field so the track would write races for my other horses for me!!
I have seen horses on a results chart run 8 wide around the whole track when 8 lengths back. It was to try to run the horse even with the others while staying out of trouble and to convince the owner to lower the class next time. If horses run evenly with the others, at the back of the pack as a test, sometimes they get good odds when lowered and win!! Some bigger trainers do it all the time. PP's often reveal horses have what I call a "purse barrier", a price below which they finish well. Always look for that on PP's. It really keeps me off a lot of bad bets!

[lsbets]

If you talk to the good trainers, they will probably agree with all of Ken's reasons, but the two that I would think stand out (and I know this from the trainers in Texas that I talk to) are 1) some owners have huge egos and do not want to hear what the trainer says and pick the spots for their horses - these spots are usually much tougher and under different conditions than the trainer would pick. 2) some trainers know very little about racing and cannot place their horses. It sounds ridiculous, but it is true. That is why a trainer change off of a claim is such a great angle to bet. Going from a bad trainer to a good trainer who can spot his horses makes a huge difference. Usually you will see the owner from point one using the trainer from point two, because the good trainers have enough horses that they can turn away pain in the butt owners, or they have the credibility to takl down someone with a huge ego.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I called a GGF trainer once and he thought I was an owner- he told me #1 thing for him was make sure the horses are treated very well and physically well. I thought that was sweet but probably why he has a low %! The real trainer for the actor-horses in "Seabiscuit", I think Mike Chen or Chew, seems to run his horses over their heads all the time.

[takeout]

Some trainers appear to be doing nothing more than protecting their day rates.

[delayjf]

I've heard of some trainers using the turf races as a working vacation.

[VetScratch]

For useful 3&UPs that have run through their normal allowance conditions, some tracks write races with special distance conditions that are more inviting than taking on tough company in standard classified allowances or open claiming races. I used to also see surface conditions when fewer turf courses were available.