HOY voters, lend me your ear. Pssst, its Zenyatta.

[Stillriledup]

If i can sway ONE official voter to change his or her vote from another candidate to Zenyatta, this post will have done its job. I'm speaking to an audience with an open mind, so i'm hoping to lay out a case for Z, point by point. Hopefully i can get you to at least rethink your decision.

1) The case for Blame. Personally, i think Blame's entire case for HOY rests on his nose victory in the BCC. Without this, he's got zero shot. This vaulted him into the discussion in a big way, he doesn't have much else, except this (and a drubbing at the hands of someone called Haynesfield). Lots of times the BCC is good enough, but not always. The BCC winner doesnt automatically win HOY....if they did, it wouldnt be called Horse of the Year, it might be called "Horse who won a specific race" award.

2) Blame's supporters. So far, anyone who has made a case for Blame has basically said the same thing over and over. Blame's owner even said something along the lines of "i thought the battle for horse of the year was ended 30 minutes ago". In other words, Blame's own owner didn't make a case that Blame was the better horse for a 365 day span, he made the case that because he was one inch better on one specific day, he ought to win a year end award.

3) The horse of '3 years' argument. A few Blame supporters are saying that its horse of the YEAR and not horse of the 366 days. They want to remind you that voters are required by law (which they'll show you if you ask for documented proof) to NOT consider anything that happened on Dec 31, 2009 or before. Its only Jan 1, 2010 to Dec 31, 2010 that matters. This is what they'll tell you. I hate to break it to you all, but voters are human and there's no required signed legal document that says a voter MUST NOT factor in the entire career of a horse.

4) Who is actually the better horse, Blame or Z? This is a tough one. Well,ok, its not really all that tough. In the Classic, Z was 3-5 (or thereabouts) and Blame was 5-1 (or thereabouts). This means the public felt Z was the better horse on the weekend of Nov 5th and 6th, 2010. Whether they were wrong or right isnt the point, the point is that they FELT she was better at that time. Ok, so, we all realize that the best horse doesnt always win every horse race, and in the case of the BCC, it was proof again that sometimes the best horse loses (or not, depending how you feel). If these two horses raced again in the Clark Handicap (for example) guess what the public would have done? Yep, they would have made Z 3-5 again. Blame would NOT have been viewed as the better animal and the toteboard, made up of some HOY voters monies, would have said so.

5) Should a 'legacy' horse be HOY if they are 'in the running'? Lets fast forward to the year 2050. You, the HOY voter who voted for Blame, are 90 years old and sitting on your front porch in your rocking chair enjoying a summer afternoon. Your grandson, who is a big racing fan because you got him into the sport, asks a question that a young child might often ask a grandpa. Grandpa, he says, "Who's Blame?". Then you will probably say, "kiddo, i'm not really sure, why do you ask?". Than the grandson will say, "i'm looking over this list on wikipedia of horses of the year and i see all these great names like Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Kelso, Cigar, Forego, Whirlaway, Seabiscuit, War Admiral, Affirmed and of course, Seattle Slew. Then i get to 2010 and see Blame and just have no idea who he is".

Do you want to be THAT grandpa? The one who voted for Someone named Blame when in a few days, we will forget about him and kinda not know who he was? You don't want to be THAT guy. You want to be the grandpa telling the grandson that you voted for Zenyatta in 2010, and then proceed to sit him on your lap and tell him all about Big Z and what she did for the sport.

Don't make a young child in the year 2050 ask, "Who the heck is blame".

6) Blame's case is made in 7 strides. Here's the funny thing about Blame's supporters. His entire case is built, brick by brick, on the 7 strides before the wire in one race at a track called Churchill Downs on a cold afternoon in early November. In those 7 strides, the strides that might get him the HOY title, his main competition for the very same title was eating him up. In those 7 strides, Zenyatta was gobbling up Blame and spitting him out. In those 7 strides, the fateful 7 strides, she was better than he was and yet, those 7 strides are going to seal her fate as a loser in the HOY battle. Funny how life works sometimes.

7) Why Blame's victory margin matters. Here's why it matters. Because if Zenyatta ran her eyeballs out and lost by 10 lengths while finishing a strong 2nd, she would have zero chance to win HOY. That 10 length margin would have been enough to establish Blame as a superhorse and no doubt the best horse in the world. But, Blame didnt do that. Food for thought. If Zenyatta was going to lose, she could have lost by a nose to anyone, it didnt have to be Blame. If you want to push Z off the mountaintop, you gotta punish her and beat her by open lengths, Blame didn't do that.

8) What does HORSE OF THE YEAR actually MEAN? I think its kinda of like the MVP in professional sports. Who wins the MVP in team sports? Usually, the winner is the actual best player. There might be someone with 'better stats' but the winner is usually the person who's universally accepted as the best player. Josh Hamilton might not have had the actual best stats (because he missed some time with bad ribs) but its universally accepted that he's the best player in the AL at this point. If you watch the games (or the all star homerun derby a couple years ago), you know this to be true. Blame's case is made by him winning a certain race and Z's case is being made that she's the best horse. (at least by me)

9) Forgetting what you thought BEFORE the BCC. If i would have said to you before the race, "what happens if Zenyatta races amazing and loses by a flying nose, do you think she still wins HOY?" i think the overwhelming consensus would be yes, she still wins. The consensus would have been its 'her HOY to lose' and if she races great, she will have done enough to 'hold her big hypothetical lead in the court of public opinion'. Don't let the emotion of Z's loss sway you, try and remember how you felt BEFORE the race.


10) If a once in a lifetime horse like Zenyatta can't ever win ONE horse of the year title, maybe the system is broken and needs to be fixed. She's horse of the DECADE (for 2000-2010) but she can't muster ONE HOY title? Seriously?

If there was EVER a situation where the nose winner of the BCC deserved to be beaten by the runner up in this voting, its right here and right now. If Z can't beat out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here.

The Mosses are going to be sitting at the Eclipse awards again waiting to hear their fate. Its probably going to end badly for them again. Don't let it end badly for them, seriously. To the voters who are reading this, don't put yourself in a position to feel 'dirty' by voting against Z this year. She deserves this title, you know it, i know it, the whole world knows it, just make it happen. Seriously, this is a tremendously worthy candidate, don't turn Z into Susan Lucci, she deserves a better fate.


Thank you all, and have a good night.

[andtheyreoff]

If i can sway ONE official voter to change his or her vote from another candidate to Zenyatta, this post will have done its job. I'm speaking to an audience with an open mind, so i'm hoping to lay out a case for Z, point by point. Hopefully i can get you to at least rethink your decision.

1) The case for Blame. Personally, i think Blame's entire case for HOY rests on his nose victory in the BCC. Without this, he's got zero shot. This vaulted him into the discussion in a big way, he doesn't have much else, except this (and a drubbing at the hands of someone called Haynesfield). Lots of times the BCC is good enough, but not always. The BCC winner doesnt automatically win HOY....if they did, it wouldnt be called Horse of the Year, it might be called "Horse who won a specific race" award.

Surely, winning 2 other G1s, plus defeating one of the best fields assembled in 2010 and beating tons of graded stakes winners had something to do with it, no? As for "zero shot" he was being mentioned as a HOTY canidate prior to the Classic, so it's not as if one win launched him to the top.

2) Blame's supporters. So far, anyone who has made a case for Blame has basically said the same thing over and over. Blame's owner even said something along the lines of "i thought the battle for horse of the year was ended 30 minutes ago". In other words, Blame's own owner didn't make a case that Blame was the better horse for a 365 day span, he made the case that because he was one inch better on one specific day, he ought to win a year end award.

So, because the owner might have said that Blame's strong point is his Classic win, he should be HOTY? That makes a ton of sense. Not.

3) The horse of '3 years' argument. A few Blame supporters are saying that its horse of the YEAR and not horse of the 366 days. They want to remind you that voters are required by law (which they'll show you if you ask for documented proof) to NOT consider anything that happened on Dec 31, 2009 or before. Its only Jan 1, 2010 to Dec 31, 2010 that matters. This is what they'll tell you. I hate to break it to you all, but voters are human and there's no required signed legal document that says a voter MUST NOT factor in the entire career of a horse.

If the award is called "horse of the YEAR" surely it would mean that the YEAR is the only thing that counts, no?

In the words of an old friend of ours, "This is like arguing whether or not the sky is blue".

4) Who is actually the better horse, Blame or Z? This is a tough one. Well,ok, its not really all that tough. In the Classic, Z was 3-5 (or thereabouts) and Blame was 5-1 (or thereabouts). This means the public felt Z was the better horse on the weekend of Nov 5th and 6th, 2010. Whether they were wrong or right isnt the point, the point is that they FELT she was better at that time. Ok, so, we all realize that the best horse doesnt always win every horse race, and in the case of the BCC, it was proof again that sometimes the best horse loses (or not, depending how you feel). If these two horses raced again in the Clark Handicap (for example) guess what the public would have done? Yep, they would have made Z 3-5 again. Blame would NOT have been viewed as the better animal and the toteboard, made up of some HOY voters monies, would have said so.

One of the more ill-informed things you have said around here (which says a lot).

Rest assured, had the public in the Clark (mostly made up of regular bettors, a stark contrast from the Classic) had to decide between Zenyatta and Blame, Blame would've been favored.

As for odds: Considering Rachel was never more than 1/5 in any of her races, shouldn't she should be HOTY in 2010 because the public liked her at the windows?

5) Should a 'legacy' horse be HOY if they are 'in the running'? Lets fast forward to the year 2050. You, the HOY voter who voted for Blame, are 90 years old and sitting on your front porch in your rocking chair enjoying a summer afternoon. Your grandson, who is a big racing fan because you got him into the sport, asks a question that a young child might often ask a grandpa. Grandpa, he says, "Who's Blame?". Then you will probably say, "kiddo, i'm not really sure, why do you ask?". Than the grandson will say, "i'm looking over this list on wikipedia of horses of the year and i see all these great names like Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Kelso, Cigar, Forego, Whirlaway, Seabiscuit, War Admiral, Affirmed and of course, Seattle Slew. Then i get to 2010 and see Blame and just have no idea who he is".

Do you want to be THAT grandpa? The one who voted for Someone named Blame when in a few days, we will forget about him and kinda not know who he was? You don't want to be THAT guy. You want to be the grandpa telling the grandson that you voted for Zenyatta in 2010, and then proceed to sit him on your lap and tell him all about Big Z and what she did for the sport.

Don't make a young child in the year 2050 ask, "Who the heck is blame".

With this thinking, why not change the award to "Most Popular Horse of the Year"?

6) Blame's case is made in 7 strides. Here's the funny thing about Blame's supporters. His entire case is built, brick by brick, on the 7 strides before the wire in one race at a track called Churchill Downs on a cold afternoon in early November. In those 7 strides, the strides that might get him the HOY title, his main competition for the very same title was eating him up. In those 7 strides, Zenyatta was gobbling up Blame and spitting him out. In those 7 strides, the fateful 7 strides, she was better than he was and yet, those 7 strides are going to seal her fate as a loser in the HOY battle. Funny how life works sometimes.

In those 7 strides, she was better than him? If I'm not mistaken, didn't Blame hold off Zenyatta? Or is it me?

7) Why Blame's victory margin matters. Here's why it matters. Because if Zenyatta ran her eyeballs out and lost by 10 lengths while finishing a strong 2nd, she would have zero chance to win HOY. That 10 length margin would have been enough to establish Blame as a superhorse and no doubt the best horse in the world. But, Blame didnt do that. Food for thought. If Zenyatta was going to lose, she could have lost by a nose to anyone, it didnt have to be Blame. If you want to push Z off the mountaintop, you gotta punish her and beat her by open lengths, Blame didn't do that.

But Blame still won, did he not?

2nd is 2nd is 2nd.

8) What does HORSE OF THE YEAR actually MEAN? I think its kinda of like the MVP in professional sports. Who wins the MVP in team sports? Usually, the winner is the actual best player. There might be someone with 'better stats' but the winner is usually the person who's universally accepted as the best player. Josh Hamilton might not have had the actual best stats (because he missed some time with bad ribs) but its universally accepted that he's the best player in the AL at this point. If you watch the games (or the all star homerun derby a couple years ago), you know this to be true. Blame's case is made by him winning a certain race and Z's case is being made that she's the best horse. (at least by me)

You must have liked Kelso for Horse of the Year back in '66.



9) Forgetting what you thought BEFORE the BCC. If i would have said to you before the race, "what happens if Zenyatta races amazing and loses by a flying nose, do you think she still wins HOY?" i think the overwhelming consensus would be yes, she still wins. The consensus would have been its 'her HOY to lose' and if she races great, she will have done enough to 'hold her big hypothetical lead in the court of public opinion'. Don't let the emotion of Z's loss sway you, try and remember how you felt BEFORE the race.

Am I the only one who feels like (s)he's going in circles?


10) If a once in a lifetime horse like Zenyatta can't ever win ONE horse of the year title, maybe the system is broken and needs to be fixed. She's horse of the DECADE (for 2000-2010) but she can't muster ONE HOY title? Seriously?

See above.

If there was EVER a situation where the nose winner of the BCC deserved to be beaten by the runner up in this voting, its right here and right now. If Z can't beat out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here.

Slight correction: If Z beats 0 G1 winners all year and runs in the same cream puff spots she did last year and beats out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here.

The Mosses are going to be sitting at the Eclipse awards again waiting to hear their fate. Its probably going to end badly for them again. Don't let it end badly for them, seriously. To the voters who are reading this, don't put yourself in a position to feel 'dirty' by voting against Z this year. She deserves this title, you know it, i know it, the whole world knows it, just make it happen. Seriously, this is a tremendously worthy candidate, don't turn Z into Susan Lucci, she deserves a better fate.

Why shouldn't we let it end badly for the connections? They decided to put the chips all in for one race, and they lost? Why reward them? Why set a bad precedent?


Thank you all, and have a good night.

After reading this convoluted, twisting, fact-lacking barnburner, I don't know if I'll have a good night again with this in my mind.

[cj]

One vote changed? You'll be lucky to get more than two people even read that whole post.

[Relwob Owner]

Surely, winning 2 other G1s, plus defeating one of the best fields assembled in 2010 and beating tons of graded stakes winners had something to do with it, no? As for "zero shot" he was being mentioned as a HOTY canidate prior to the Classic, so it's not as if one win launched him to the top.



So, because the owner might have said that Blame's strong point is his Classic win, he should be HOTY? That makes a ton of sense. Not.



If the award is called "horse of the YEAR" surely it would mean that the YEAR is the only thing that counts, no?

In the words of an old friend of ours, "This is like arguing whether or not the sky is blue".



One of the more ill-informed things you have said around here (which says a lot).

Rest assured, had the public in the Clark (mostly made up of regular bettors, a stark contrast from the Classic) had to decide between Zenyatta and Blame, Blame would've been favored.

As for odds: Considering Rachel was never more than 1/5 in any of her races, shouldn't she should be HOTY in 2010 because the public liked her at the windows?



With this thinking, why not change the award to "Most Popular Horse of the Year"?



In those 7 strides, she was better than him? If I'm not mistaken, didn't Blame hold off Zenyatta? Or is it me?



But Blame still won, did he not?

2nd is 2nd is 2nd.



You must have liked Kelso for Horse of the Year back in '66.





Am I the only one who feels like (s)he's going in circles?




See above.



Slight correction: If Z beats 0 G1 winners all year and runs in the same cream puff spots she did last year and beats out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here.



Why shouldn't we let it end badly for the connections? They decided to put the chips all in for one race, and they lost? Why reward them? Why set a bad precedent?




After reading this convoluted, twisting, fact-lacking barnburner, I don't know if I'll have a good night again with this in my mind.



That was an awesome post and saved many on this board a ton of time, including me-thank you, thank you, thank you

[Spalding No!]

I like how his entire "point by point" case for Zenyatta as Horse Of The Year simply involved trying to tear down Blame. No mention of the mare's other 2010 starts whatsoever.

Fail.

(However, I do concede that the rueful grandpa bit was hilarious).

[joanied]

Well, I took the time to read it...I'm with you, Relwob: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Relwob Owner]

Well, I took the time to read it...I'm with you, Relwob: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:



Good to hear from ya JD:)....I read the whole thing too and felt like the guy sitting next to Ted Striker in the movie Airplane who couldnt take listening to him anymore, douses himself with gasoline, and lights a match......

[joanied]

Good to hear from ya JD:)....I read the whole thing too and felt like the guy sitting next to Ted Striker in the movie Airplane who couldnt take listening to him anymore, douses himself with gasoline, and lights a match......

:lol: damned funny movie!!

[CBedo]

I read the whole thing, and what I noticed is that 8 of the 10 points related to Blame, like a mud slinging political ad, subjective, and to me, not convincing.

The other two points are more pleas for Zenyatta than actual reasons.

If I cared at all, I'd vote for Blame.

[bigmack]

One vote changed? You'll be lucky to get more than two people even read that whole post.
Welcome aboard.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/Sequence02-1.gif

[keithw84]

The argument for Zenyatta is based mainly on a.) emotion and b.) what she has done in other years. The argument for Blame is based mainly on a.)wins in unrestricted races at the highest level of competition and b.) the quality of horses defeated in those wins.

Let's take Zenyatta and Blame out of it for a moment and ask ourselves what HOY should be based on. I don't think there's even a question. The criteria in Blame's favor should be primary. The criteria in Zenyatta's favor should be considered incidental.

I don't understand the argument that Zenyatta not winning HOY somehow tarnishes the sport. We survived Ruffian, Personal Ensign, and Easy Goer not being named HOY.

Furthermore, I'd rather be the grandpa who voted for Blame than the grandpa who voted for Zenyatta and set the precedent that you can face light competition and come in SECOND in your one challenging race and win HOY.

It is possible to appreciate her career, record, and exciting finishes without giving her an award that I think Blame has done more to earn.

[Relwob Owner]

If i can sway ONE official voter to change his or her vote from another candidate to Zenyatta, this post will have done its job. I'm speaking to an audience with an open mind, so i'm hoping to lay out a case for Z, point by point. Hopefully i can get you to at least rethink your decision.

1) The case for Blame. Personally, i think Blame's entire case for HOY rests on his nose victory in the BCC. Without this, he's got zero shot. This vaulted him into the discussion in a big way, he doesn't have much else, except this (and a drubbing at the hands of someone called Haynesfield). Lots of times the BCC is good enough, but not always. The BCC winner doesnt automatically win HOY....if they did, it wouldnt be called Horse of the Year, it might be called "Horse who won a specific race" award.

2) Blame's supporters. So far, anyone who has made a case for Blame has basically said the same thing over and over. Blame's owner even said something along the lines of "i thought the battle for horse of the year was ended 30 minutes ago". In other words, Blame's own owner didn't make a case that Blame was the better horse for a 365 day span, he made the case that because he was one inch better on one specific day, he ought to win a year end award.

3) The horse of '3 years' argument. A few Blame supporters are saying that its horse of the YEAR and not horse of the 366 days. They want to remind you that voters are required by law (which they'll show you if you ask for documented proof) to NOT consider anything that happened on Dec 31, 2009 or before. Its only Jan 1, 2010 to Dec 31, 2010 that matters. This is what they'll tell you. I hate to break it to you all, but voters are human and there's no required signed legal document that says a voter MUST NOT factor in the entire career of a horse.

4) Who is actually the better horse, Blame or Z? This is a tough one. Well,ok, its not really all that tough. In the Classic, Z was 3-5 (or thereabouts) and Blame was 5-1 (or thereabouts). This means the public felt Z was the better horse on the weekend of Nov 5th and 6th, 2010. Whether they were wrong or right isnt the point, the point is that they FELT she was better at that time. Ok, so, we all realize that the best horse doesnt always win every horse race, and in the case of the BCC, it was proof again that sometimes the best horse loses (or not, depending how you feel). If these two horses raced again in the Clark Handicap (for example) guess what the public would have done? Yep, they would have made Z 3-5 again. Blame would NOT have been viewed as the better animal and the toteboard, made up of some HOY voters monies, would have said so.

5) Should a 'legacy' horse be HOY if they are 'in the running'? Lets fast forward to the year 2050. You, the HOY voter who voted for Blame, are 90 years old and sitting on your front porch in your rocking chair enjoying a summer afternoon. Your grandson, who is a big racing fan because you got him into the sport, asks a question that a young child might often ask a grandpa. Grandpa, he says, "Who's Blame?". Then you will probably say, "kiddo, i'm not really sure, why do you ask?". Than the grandson will say, "i'm looking over this list on wikipedia of horses of the year and i see all these great names like Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Kelso, Cigar, Forego, Whirlaway, Seabiscuit, War Admiral, Affirmed and of course, Seattle Slew. Then i get to 2010 and see Blame and just have no idea who he is".

Do you want to be THAT grandpa? The one who voted for Someone named Blame when in a few days, we will forget about him and kinda not know who he was? You don't want to be THAT guy. You want to be the grandpa telling the grandson that you voted for Zenyatta in 2010, and then proceed to sit him on your lap and tell him all about Big Z and what she did for the sport.

Don't make a young child in the year 2050 ask, "Who the heck is blame".

6) Blame's case is made in 7 strides. Here's the funny thing about Blame's supporters. His entire case is built, brick by brick, on the 7 strides before the wire in one race at a track called Churchill Downs on a cold afternoon in early November. In those 7 strides, the strides that might get him the HOY title, his main competition for the very same title was eating him up. In those 7 strides, Zenyatta was gobbling up Blame and spitting him out. In those 7 strides, the fateful 7 strides, she was better than he was and yet, those 7 strides are going to seal her fate as a loser in the HOY battle. Funny how life works sometimes.

7) Why Blame's victory margin matters. Here's why it matters. Because if Zenyatta ran her eyeballs out and lost by 10 lengths while finishing a strong 2nd, she would have zero chance to win HOY. That 10 length margin would have been enough to establish Blame as a superhorse and no doubt the best horse in the world. But, Blame didnt do that. Food for thought. If Zenyatta was going to lose, she could have lost by a nose to anyone, it didnt have to be Blame. If you want to push Z off the mountaintop, you gotta punish her and beat her by open lengths, Blame didn't do that.

8) What does HORSE OF THE YEAR actually MEAN? I think its kinda of like the MVP in professional sports. Who wins the MVP in team sports? Usually, the winner is the actual best player. There might be someone with 'better stats' but the winner is usually the person who's universally accepted as the best player. Josh Hamilton might not have had the actual best stats (because he missed some time with bad ribs) but its universally accepted that he's the best player in the AL at this point. If you watch the games (or the all star homerun derby a couple years ago), you know this to be true. Blame's case is made by him winning a certain race and Z's case is being made that she's the best horse. (at least by me)

9) Forgetting what you thought BEFORE the BCC. If i would have said to you before the race, "what happens if Zenyatta races amazing and loses by a flying nose, do you think she still wins HOY?" i think the overwhelming consensus would be yes, she still wins. The consensus would have been its 'her HOY to lose' and if she races great, she will have done enough to 'hold her big hypothetical lead in the court of public opinion'. Don't let the emotion of Z's loss sway you, try and remember how you felt BEFORE the race.


10) If a once in a lifetime horse like Zenyatta can't ever win ONE horse of the year title, maybe the system is broken and needs to be fixed. She's horse of the DECADE (for 2000-2010) but she can't muster ONE HOY title? Seriously?

If there was EVER a situation where the nose winner of the BCC deserved to be beaten by the runner up in this voting, its right here and right now. If Z can't beat out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here.

The Mosses are going to be sitting at the Eclipse awards again waiting to hear their fate. Its probably going to end badly for them again. Don't let it end badly for them, seriously. To the voters who are reading this, don't put yourself in a position to feel 'dirty' by voting against Z this year. She deserves this title, you know it, i know it, the whole world knows it, just make it happen. Seriously, this is a tremendously worthy candidate, don't turn Z into Susan Lucci, she deserves a better fate.


Thank you all, and have a good night.




In game seven of the NBA Finals, who would be declared NBA Champion if the Lakers beat the Celtics by a point?

To your extremely questionable point about who was favored in the BC Classic.....if the Celtics were favored and got beat would that change who is the champion?

Since you have proven over and over again that your pro Zenyatta stance causes you to ignore racing facts, I figured a reference to anlother sport might help.

As always, I respect your opinion and enthusiasm towards Zenyatta but I really think you will wake up one day and re-think your stance on this topic...

[affirmedny]

In game seven of the NBA Finals, who would be declared NBA Champion if the Lakers beat the Celtics by a point?



Add to that, what if the Celtics only played games against sub .500 teams all year long and then lost the championship by a point? Are they a deserving champion? Not in my book.

[Tom]

Why would anyone vote for the Celtics for HOY?

[FenceBored]

Why would anyone vote for the Celtics for HOY?

East Coast bias?

[Relwob Owner]

Why would anyone vote for the Celtics for HOY?


Comparison is pretty simple, I think, in terms of how champions are viewed in other sports. People have posted all kinds of stats abt the two horses, their competition, etc and he still fires up threads that ignore all of those things. Figured a comparison to another sport might make him see a different point of view.

I think Z is spectacular but just not the HOY this year.

[Charlie D]

1) The case for Blame. Personally, i think Blame's entire case for HOY rests on his nose victory in the BCC.



I read the above and then stopped as the above is from someone who has thier thinking regarding the case for Blame totally wrong.

[joanied]

I just read about Goldikova's Cartier Award for HoY in Europe...and they said how they vote over there...(I had no idea)
40% points system
40% journalists
20% the public

I read recently in the Blood Horse that we may try a points system here, and IMO, that would be very good and very fair. In fact, I think we should use the same system as they do, which includes the public getting to put in their two cents.

[OntheRail]

Yada yada yada

Moss tossed all his marbles into one sack (BBC)... for HOTY by running in restricted races against weaker fields. And Blame tore a hole in it and Moss lost his marbles. Had she run in one of the Big CA open company races things may have been different. ;)

[Tom]

I just read about Goldikova's Cartier Award for HoY in Europe...and they said how they vote over there...(I had no idea)
40% points system
40% journalists
20% the public

I read recently in the Blood Horse that we may try a points system here, and IMO, that would be very good and very fair. In fact, I think we should use the same system as they do, which includes the public getting to put in their two cents.

Good idea to include the fans in the voting. Our awards lock out the people who keep the game running and no one bitches about it.

[FenceBored]

Good idea to include the fans in the voting. Our awards lock out the people who keep the game running and no one bitches about it.

Apart from the people who bitch about it around this time every year? :rolleyes:

[Relwob Owner]

Moss tossed all his marbles into one sack (BBC)... for HOTY by running in restricted races against weaker fields. And Blame tore a hole in it and Moss lost his marbles. Had she run in one of the Big CA open company races things may have been different. ;)


Agreed....still baffling that they didnt run her in the Pacific Classic or the Hollywood Gold Cup....they spoke all year about how great their own horse was, which causes one to ask if their horse was this great, why not run her in either of those two races?

[jballscalls]

In game seven of the NBA Finals, who would be declared NBA Champion if the Lakers beat the Celtics by a point?

...

HOY seems to me, way more of an MVP type vote than a stone cold who won the championship type vote.

Because last year Z won the Championship and didn't get the MVP :)

[rastajenk]

Points bad; subjectivity good. Controversy even better. :cool: It keeps people engaged until the Derby preps begin.

[BluegrassProf]

....they spoke all year about how great their own horse was, which causes one to ask if their horse was this great, why not run her in either of those two races?http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5224527326_f7bb4cd56c.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

Horse of the Year is beneath her; give it to the commoner Blame. What the hell does the absolute ruler Queen Z need with a vote distinguishing the mere ordinary from one another?

[Relwob Owner]

HOY seems to me, way more of an MVP type vote than a stone cold who won the championship type vote.

Because last year Z won the Championship and didn't get the MVP :)


Interesting point....I would counter with this: If HOY is like the MVP, then what is the championship vote?

I dont think last year is the best comparison because the other horse in consideration(RA) wasnt in the finals....this year, the other horse was and beat her, even though she spent all year in weak races and pointing for that very race while he spent all year in open company in tougher races....cant get much more fair and square than that IMHO

[Tom]

Apart from the people who bitch about it around this time every year? :rolleyes:

So, you think that fans should not have a say in the process?

[joanied]

Good idea to include the fans in the voting. Our awards lock out the people who keep the game running and no one bitches about it.

Actually, if 'they' allowed the fans/handicappers to be involved in making decisions, they might get some good things done...one can read hundreds of letters to the editors, blogs, forum posts ect. with great ideas for making the sport better...from take out/handle to marketing...but seems to me, 'they' trun a blind eye to all of it...

but yep, having the public cast votes, that actually count, for the year end rewards would be a great way to get folks involved...and maybe make the year end voting a little less biased...you know...east vs west!!

Maybe I'll do something I've never done before, and post a comment about this on Paulick report or soemthing:) ...not that it'd do much good:bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

10) If a once in a lifetime horse like Zenyatta can't ever win ONE horse of the year title, maybe the system is broken and needs to be fixed. She's horse of the DECADE (for 2000-2010) but she can't muster ONE HOY title? Seriously?

If there was EVER a situation where the nose winner of the BCC deserved to be beaten by the runner up in this voting, its right here and right now. If Z can't beat out Blame for HOY title, than something is really, really wrong around here. There's only one couple to BLAME for this, and you know who it is.

Your entire post is weak, and only further serves to illustrate how pathetic it would be to vote Zenyatta HOTY over Blame.

I don't think you convinced anyone to switch their vote from Blame to Z, but you might have succeeded the other way around (I hope).

[bigmack]

Why would anyone vote for the Celtics for HOY?
Two new members in one thread. We're on a roll.

(Free hot pockets & cold beer every other Saturday)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/tomb.png

[FenceBored]

So, you think that fans should not have a say in the process?

Way to misunderstand the point there, dude.

[OTM Al]

47 more days and this ends once and for all.....

[CincyHorseplayer]

Two new members in one thread. We're on a roll.

(Free hot pockets & cold beer every other Saturday)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/tomb.png

Is this a play on the thread title?

"Horseplayers lend me your rear"??!!!:cool:

A lot of rears have reared their ugly head over this beaten down subject.

[TommyCh]

Yo, andtheyreoff,
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.

stillriledup,
Why such an emotional pleading? What's in it for you? Think Jerry/Ann Moss and John Shirreffs care about us?

[FenceBored]

47 more days and this ends once and for all.....

I fear you are mistaken. Did the Zen-RA HOY debate end the evening of Jan. 18, 2010?

[bigmack]

I fear you are mistaken. Did the Zen-RA HOY debate end the evening of Jan. 18, 2010?
Way to misunderstand the point there, dude.

[riskman]

47 more days and this ends once and for all.....

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the fine line between sanity and madness gotten finer?"
George Price

[Cardus]

47 more days and this ends once and for all.....

I doubt that.

[joanied]

Agreed....still baffling that they didnt run her in the Pacific Classic or the Hollywood Gold Cup....they spoke all year about how great their own horse was, which causes one to ask if their horse was this great, why not run her in either of those two races?

I'll agree with that also...I will never understand why they didn't...and wouldn't be surprised if Shirreff's ran it by them, but they said no...I beleive she'd have kicked a$$ in either one of those races.
What a shame.

[Relwob Owner]

I'll agree with that also...I will never understand why they didn't...and wouldn't be surprised if Shirreff's ran it by them, but they said no...I beleive she'd have kicked a$$ in either one of those races.
What a shame.


I agree......she lost the HOY in 2009 in part because she didnt run against the boys as much as Rachel did....you would think that after that happened, they would have learned their lesson but they didnt.....

[Tom]

Way to misunderstand the point there, dude.

Way to misunderstand the sarcasm, dude.

[depalma113]

Zenyatta for HOY. I guess we should vote Boise St. National Champions in college football too. After all, they came up just short when it mattered most too.

[joanied]

I agree......she lost the HOY in 2009 in part because she didnt run against the boys as much as Rachel did....you would think that after that happened, they would have learned their lesson but they didnt.....

Maybe someday the Moss's will reveal why they didn't run Zen in one of those races...of course, if she'd gotten those last several inches on Blame, we wouldn't be having this conversation...I would think that right now, they are having regrets that they didn't...but, water under the bridge...regardless of which horse wins the HoY award, this debate will continue for a while...at least until the newly turned 3 yr olds start their road to the Derby:)

[FenceBored]

Way to misunderstand the sarcasm, dude.

Exactly. :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

The tooth and nail fight for Z continues.

The more and more i think about this HOY debate, the more i believe that Z is the correct candidate for the title. I'm going to add a few more points for you to consider about Z's candidacy.

I keep hearing the Blame fans in my head saying stuff like, "but he won the race" "he beat her on the racetrack" "Its not a popularity contest". "the CRITERIA is supposed to be about what's done on the track".

Here's what the Blame supporters have NOT said. They have NOT said, "He's the BETTER horse". Nobody's said that, at least not that i've heard or read.

Lets think about this more carefully. Both horses have one loss on the year. For some reason, Zs one loss is being held more against her than Blame's one loss. In Z's one loss, she was amazing in defeat and raced super. In Blame's one loss, he was lackluster and was embarrassed. Its more impressive to lose by a nose to Blame in a 5 million dollar race than it is to lose to Haynesfield in some small field at Belmont.

If Blame gets the HOY based on his win in the Classic, than they should just automatically award the HOY to the Classic winner. If there is ANY year where there are tremendous extenuating circumstances, this is the year. If there is ever going to be a time in history when the BC Classic winner is NOT awarded the HOY due to a very unusual situation, this is the year.

This is about horses, not jockeys. Do we penalize Z for having Mike Smith while Blame had Gomez, a far superior rider? I don't want to get into a jockey debate, but Gomez is the perennial leading rider in the country in purse earnings. This is not a horse-jockey award, its a HORSE award, if you take the jockeys out of the equasion, the edge goes to Z. She shouldnt be penalized for a horse award because Blame's human connection totally outrode Z's human connection.

I know the Blame fans want to cite that this isnt about 'popularity' or about what you've done the last THREE years, but lets face it, as humans we can't help but factor stuff into the equasion that happened before 2010. When a horse goes into a big race 19 for 19, that's gotta count for something. I know, some will cry "NO IT CANT COUNT ONLY 2010 COUNTS". Unfortunately for them, there's no 'criteria' in the rules and regs of the HOY award. Its not like a jury trial in the federal court where jurors are not allowed to factor in certain information. This is just a horse of the year, its really open to anyone's interpretation of what horse of the year means to them.

I just hate to see a once in a lifetime horse get denied a year end award like this because of technicalities. If we had a horse of the 2 years award, or horse of the 3 years award or even horse of the 4 years award (like the olympics) Z would win that award without any discussion. Is it her fault that there isnt a horse of the decade award? Or a horse of the time period award?

I just think Z deserves to win this award. Its not like she would be an unworthy winner or doesnt deserve it.

Last year, Rachel just ripped that award away from Z, she came along and put up a 3 year old filly campaign that we haven't seen ever. She was the modern day Ruffian, she was beating boys from post 13 and she was beating older boys under tremendous pace pressure at Saratoga. Rachel's campaign was incredibly special and it took all that specialness to deny Z last year. I just feel that Blame isn't a quarter of the horse that Rachel is and Z is the same old great Z that we know and love. Z showed up and raced great in EVERY start in 2010 while Blame flopped in one of his 5 starts. Blame flopped in 20% of his entire 2010 Campaign, to me, that's not good enough to wrestle the HOY away from a tremendously worthy candidate.

Vote for Z, do the right thing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's what the Blame supporters have NOT said. They have NOT said, "He's the BETTER horse". Nobody's said that, at least not that i've heard or read.Most times, the obvious doesn't have to be stated. Until proven otherwise, he's the better horse. He's won more open-company Grade 1s and he's won their only head-to-head matchup.

Let me ask you this. If Blame had been allowed to race in every race Zenyatta has raced in, do you think he would be undefeated at this point? Or do you think one of those fillies would have beaten him? Or maybe he would have lost last year's BC Classic to Gio Ponti?Lets think about this more carefully. Both horses have one loss on the year. For some reason, Zs one loss is being held more against her than Blame's one loss.Yeah, because Zs one loss was against Blame!!! If Blame's one loss were against Z and HOY was up for grabs between Z & Blame, then Z would get the vote. It's very simple.In Blame's one loss, he was lackluster and was embarrassed.He wasn't embarrassed.If Blame gets the HOY based on his win in the Classic, than they should just automatically award the HOY to the Classic winner.Throw out the Classic. Then who gets HOTY? BLAME STILL WINS THE AWARD!!!! This is what you fail to grasp. If they never ran the BC Classic, Zenyatta would still not be HOTY based on the abysmal races she ran in all year. So if Zenyatta doesn't deserve HOTY while IGNORING the BC Classic, and when you include the BC Classic WHICH SHE LOST, the choice becomes even clearer.This is just a horse of the year, its really open to anyone's interpretation of what horse of the year means to them.This is the smartest thing you've said in a long time. You are 100% correct. And this is another reason why Blame will win the award.Vote for Z, do the right thing.No thank you.

[Dahoss9698]

Help me understand something here. You say Blame was embarrassed in the JCGC. Embarrassed how? He was beat 4 lengths, by a loose on the lead solid horse, on his favorite track. Haynsefield is a pretty good horse. He's no world beater, but by 2010's standards he's not bad at all. I think he ran a bang up race in the Cigar, one of the only horses to come out of the Breeders Cup and run well.

There was nothing embarrassing about Blame's JCGC. The only thing embarrassing is the "arguement" you have attempted to make here.

Get some perspective, do the right thing.

[nijinski]

But they scaled back the JCGC around 90 to accomodate horses like Blame so
I can't excuse him either.
Or at the very least I'm trying to help out Zenyatta's cause. Her almost perfect record
and the close loss in her second Classic , for a six year old mare , she should get the nod.

[FenceBored]

She won 5 this year from what?

Cue Bo Diddley:

Who did she beat?

MAGoqMZRLB4

She kicked those 23 cans of tomatos
But lost to a sack of potatoes
She crossed the Rockies in both Spring and Fall
And stands 'bout seventeen tall
She got a bright white shadowroll on
It's looks like a woollen fleece

Now come on and take a good look at Zenyatta
And tell me who did she beat

Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat

Tell me truth and thanks for tryin'
Talk 20-10 and I don't like lyin'

Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat


She rode her win streak to town on her Louisville trip
Take it easy Zen fan, don't give me no lip

Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat


The night was dark, but the sky was blue
Down the homestretch the horses flew
There's the line and somebody screamed
You shoulda heard just what I seen

Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat

Blame he beat her by a head
Down a primrose path her fans were led

Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat
Who did she beat

[FenceBored]

Lets think about this more carefully. Both horses have one loss on the year. For some reason, Zs one loss is being held more against her than Blame's one loss.


Why? Here's why, the 2010 records of the horses they defeated in their pre-BC races.

Zenyatta in her 5 wins won over horses who were:
20.59% - 28 for 136 all non-Zenyatta won races
10.34% - 06 for 58 Graded Stakes
0 G1 winners with 0 G1 wins

Blame in his 3 pre-BC wins won over horses who were:
30.48% - 32 for 105 all non-Blame won races;
26.32% - 15 for 57 just Graded Stakes
4 G1 winners with 6 G1 wins

[TommyCh]

There is a lot wrong with this (http://www.drf.com/blogs/zenyatta-years) column, especially the third paragraph.

But, please, somebody explain to me his assertions in the last paragraph where Zenyatta has "done so much for racing."

Hovdey's is the most provincial of views, because he is stationed out west. Except for a handful of bigger attendance days -- I don't know about handle -- and an admittedly large television audience and SOME more handle on Breeders Cup Saturday, what has Zenyatta really done for the game?

This point of view denigrates Easterners who don't buy into the hype when most of Zenyatta's television appearances were well after prime time, vis a vis the world of racing, and only on racing channels. It's not as if the entire country was glued to its televisions sets. Did ESPN or ABC or NBC flock to televise her as her streak continued throughout 2010? The general print media was lackadaisical. She didn't "capture the imagination of the country."

Maybe she did some good for California racing, but we here in Chicago can't wade through the hype to see for ourselves.

Nobody ever asked me "when's Zenyatta running so I can see her." She was generally off the sporting radar until shortly before the Breeders Cup in a vortex where the internet and television consumes vast quantities of content.

Zenyatta's connections put all their eggs into the BC Classic basket and lost. She lost. She lost!

I cannot understand otherwise sane handicappers contending that she put together an HOY season.

[andtheyreoff]

The tooth and nail fight for Z continues.

The more and more i think about this HOY debate, the more i believe that Z is the correct candidate for the title. I'm going to add a few more points for you to consider about Z's candidacy.

I keep hearing the Blame fans in my head saying stuff like, "but he won the race" "he beat her on the racetrack" "Its not a popularity contest". "the CRITERIA is supposed to be about what's done on the track".

Here's what the Blame supporters have NOT said. They have NOT said, "He's the BETTER horse". Nobody's said that, at least not that i've heard or read.

Lets think about this more carefully. Both horses have one loss on the year. For some reason, Zs one loss is being held more against her than Blame's one loss. In Z's one loss, she was amazing in defeat and raced super. In Blame's one loss, he was lackluster and was embarrassed. Its more impressive to lose by a nose to Blame in a 5 million dollar race than it is to lose to Haynesfield in some small field at Belmont.

If Blame gets the HOY based on his win in the Classic, than they should just automatically award the HOY to the Classic winner. If there is ANY year where there are tremendous extenuating circumstances, this is the year. If there is ever going to be a time in history when the BC Classic winner is NOT awarded the HOY due to a very unusual situation, this is the year.

This is about horses, not jockeys. Do we penalize Z for having Mike Smith while Blame had Gomez, a far superior rider? I don't want to get into a jockey debate, but Gomez is the perennial leading rider in the country in purse earnings. This is not a horse-jockey award, its a HORSE award, if you take the jockeys out of the equasion, the edge goes to Z. She shouldnt be penalized for a horse award because Blame's human connection totally outrode Z's human connection.

I know the Blame fans want to cite that this isnt about 'popularity' or about what you've done the last THREE years, but lets face it, as humans we can't help but factor stuff into the equasion that happened before 2010. When a horse goes into a big race 19 for 19, that's gotta count for something. I know, some will cry "NO IT CANT COUNT ONLY 2010 COUNTS". Unfortunately for them, there's no 'criteria' in the rules and regs of the HOY award. Its not like a jury trial in the federal court where jurors are not allowed to factor in certain information. This is just a horse of the year, its really open to anyone's interpretation of what horse of the year means to them.

I just hate to see a once in a lifetime horse get denied a year end award like this because of technicalities. If we had a horse of the 2 years award, or horse of the 3 years award or even horse of the 4 years award (like the olympics) Z would win that award without any discussion. Is it her fault that there isnt a horse of the decade award? Or a horse of the time period award?

I just think Z deserves to win this award. Its not like she would be an unworthy winner or doesnt deserve it.

Last year, Rachel just ripped that award away from Z, she came along and put up a 3 year old filly campaign that we haven't seen ever. She was the modern day Ruffian, she was beating boys from post 13 and she was beating older boys under tremendous pace pressure at Saratoga. Rachel's campaign was incredibly special and it took all that specialness to deny Z last year. I just feel that Blame isn't a quarter of the horse that Rachel is and Z is the same old great Z that we know and love. Z showed up and raced great in EVERY start in 2010 while Blame flopped in one of his 5 starts. Blame flopped in 20% of his entire 2010 Campaign, to me, that's not good enough to wrestle the HOY away from a tremendously worthy candidate.

Vote for Z, do the right thing.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[Stillriledup]

I want to start off by thanking the racing fans. Without them, none of this would have been possible. I also want to thank the Mosses for acknowledging that i had a huge part in Getting Zenyatta voted 2010 Horse of the YEAR!!!!!!!!!!



Without my persistence on a public message board, a board that is read by many industry insiders and many people who actually DID have a vote in this years eclipse awards, i don't think Zenyatta would have won without me.



Well ok, i'm being modest, there's no way she wins without me.



Ok, i'm just kidding, she wins with or without me, i'm just glad i could be just a bit player in Zenyatta's huge HOY win this year.



Most of all, congratulations to the voters who got it right. When Trevor said in the 2009 BCC "a race we will NEVER forget" i was hoping that he was right. I was hoping that the voters did not forget. They remembered, and just in time.


I want to thank all the Blame supporters on this board and around the world for being so classy in defeat, Thank you guys, i would expect nothing less than a hardy congratulations to Zenyatta and her fans.


Congratulations to Zenyatta, a worthy and well deserved 2010 Horse of the Year winner. Thank you Mr and Mrs Moss, thank you John and Mike and most of all, Thank you Big Z for all the chills and Thrills you have given us over the last few years.....its been one hell of a ride.


Two Thousand and Ten horse of the Year....ZEN. Yatta. Has a nice ring to it, right?

:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Ok, a little backround. I don't know racing all that well


You can say that again.

[Sericm]

The argument for Zenyatta is based mainly on a.) emotion and b.) what she has done in other years. The argument for Blame is based mainly on a.)wins in unrestricted races at the highest level of competition and b.) the quality of horses defeated in those wins.

Let's take Zenyatta and Blame out of it for a moment and ask ourselves what HOY should be based on. I don't think there's even a question. The criteria in Blame's favor should be primary. The criteria in Zenyatta's favor should be considered incidental.

I don't understand the argument that Zenyatta not winning HOY somehow tarnishes the sport. We survived Ruffian, Personal Ensign, and Easy Goer not being named HOY.

Furthermore, I'd rather be the grandpa who voted for Blame than the grandpa who voted for Zenyatta and set the precedent that you can face light competition and come in SECOND in your one challenging race and win HOY.

It is possible to appreciate her career, record, and exciting finishes without giving her an award that I think Blame has done more to earn.

What losing to Haynesfield!!!! By open lengths!!!! That was certainly a HOY performance.

[Charlie D]

What losing to Haynesfield!!!! By open lengths!!!! That was certainly a HOY performance.


Think you have omitted a few races from the resume of Blame there, but this has become the norm in 2010 and 2011 it seems.

[Charlie D]

Oh and btw, that second in JCC has proven to be a better performance than the entire 2010 performances of Z.

[delayjf]

I keep hearing the Blame fans in my head saying stuff like, "but he won the race" "he beat her on the racetrack" "Its not a popularity contest". "the CRITERIA is supposed to be about what's done on the track".

Well apparently voters felt Zenyatta performance in defeat was better than Blame's in victory.

[keithw84]

What losing to Haynesfield!!!! By open lengths!!!! That was certainly a HOY performance.

Isn't it pretty customary that if two competitors each have one loss, the one who wins the head-to-head match up is considered the better of the two? This happens in college football all the time.

[exactatom]

What losing to Haynesfield!!!! By open lengths!!!! That was certainly a HOY performance.

Didn't Blame have some sort of transportation problem due to weather and get to Belmont late the night before/morning of race he lost to Haynesfield?

Blame's connections opted not to scratch him as they had him on a schedule nad would rather lose a race now to win a bigger prize in the future.

Zenyatta scratched Oaks Day 2009 at Louisville (Not in the Oaks, but some allowance on undercard, I believe it was the Louisville or Alysheba) because it had rained the day before when the track came up at least decent shape on Oaks Day?

What would Zenyatta have done if she would have had a travel delay?

[exactatom]

Didn't Blame have some sort of transportation problem due to weather and get to Belmont late the night before/morning of race he lost to Haynesfield?

Blame's connections opted not to scratch him as they had him on a schedule nad would rather lose a race now to win a bigger prize in the future.

Zenyatta scratched Oaks Day 2009 at Louisville (Not in the Oaks, but some allowance on undercard, I believe it was the Louisville or Alysheba) because it had rained the day before when the track came up at least decent shape on Oaks Day?

What would Zenyatta have done if she would have had a travel delay?

The race Zenyatta scratched from was the Louisville Handicap, not an allowance race.

[Grits]

StillRiledUP, it was so grand of you to resurrect your thread. Between your redboarding, and junk such as this--one couldn't find another poster online who works to garner attention or have their affirmations praised more than you.

This makes three threads at once schlepping along, on what has now become the oldest, most tiresome subject online. One which is made up of, predominately, the fawning, the effusive, and those who couldn't get through past performances if they tried, who don't wager and will never have intention of doing so.

Please, do myself, and several others a favor . . . you and anyone else that needs to continue for another 3 to 6 months. She's retired, she's done.

Here's the link: Go and write with the hugs, kisses and carrots crowd all you want. PLEASE. Its a good fit, you'll do well.

www.Zenyatta.com (http://www.zenyatta.com/).

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: . . . . . . Its over now.

[FenceBored]

Here's the link: Go and write with the hugs, kisses and carrots crowd all you want. PLEASE. Its a good fit, you'll do well.

www.Zenyatta.com (http://www.zenyatta.com/).

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: . . . . . . Its over now.

Grits,

Thank you for suggesting a visit to Zenyatta's diary. Here's the entry from just after she got word of her victory:

DEAR BARN 55 AND MY FANS,



WE DID IT!



YOU ARE TRULY MY DEAR FRIENDS! THANK YOU FOR BEING PART OF MY TEAM AND HELPING ME AND SUPPORTING ME EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY!



I COULD NOT BE MORE PROUD AT THIS MOMENT!



THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING!



WITH LOVE,



HUGS TO ALL!



Z
-- http://www.zenyatta.com/news/diary-post-61-2


(note to self: contact Lane's End tech support people and have someone take a look at the caps lock key on Zen's computer)

[JustRalph]

StillRiledUP, it was so grand of you to resurrect your thread. Between your redboarding, and junk such as this--one couldn't find another poster online who works to garner attention or have their affirmations praised more than you.

This makes three threads at once schlepping along, on what has now become the oldest, most tiresome subject online. One which is made up of, predominately, the fawning, the effusive, and those who couldn't get through past performances if they tried, who don't wager and will never have intention of doing so.

Please, do myself, and several others a favor . . . you and anyone else that needs to continue for another 3 to 6 months. She's retired, she's done.

Here's the link: Go and write with the hugs, kisses and carrots crowd all you want. PLEASE. Its a good fit, you'll do well.

www.Zenyatta.com (http://www.zenyatta.com/).

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: . . . . . . Its over now.

Great post........... :ThmbUp: :lol:

[Tom]

Does that apply to Fence Bored's Calvin thread, too? :sleeping:

[FenceBored]

Does that apply to Fence Bored's Calvin thread, too? :sleeping:

I fail to see how my Borel thread has anything to do with this one.

Some people are concerned about the lack of recognition for America's "Mr. Derby." That thread was merely a courtesy to those folks, providing a mainstream outlet for their frustration.

[Cardus]

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

He must have you on ignore.

[Stillriledup]

You are 100% correct. And this is another reason why Blame will win the award.No thank you.

Thanks, appreciate the Kudos!

:ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Thanks, appreciate the Kudos!

:ThmbUp:

Good thing you brought this thread back. I hope Pace locks it up now!

[Stillriledup]

Good thing you brought this thread back. I hope Pace locks it up now!
Maybe this thread can make a guest appearance on Punk'd with PA holding his i love Blame sign.

:faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe this thread can make a guest appearance on Punk'd with PA holding his i love Blame sign.

:faint:Blame beat her where it counted most. I can't help it if the election was rigged.

Humans are fallible...racehorses are a more honest bunch, thankfully.

[Stillriledup]

Blame beat her where it counted most. I can't help it if the election was rigged.

Humans are fallible...racehorses are a more honest bunch, thankfully.

You think the election was rigged?

[BetCrazyGirl]

Blame beat her where it counted most. I can't help it if the election was rigged.

Humans are fallible...racehorses are a more honest bunch, thankfully.

Most people just knew that Zenyatta overall was the better horse.

[FenceBored]

When I saw this thread was reactivated, I figured that it was because Blame is up for an Espy in the Best Upset category (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63725/blame-nominated-for-espy-award). He won't get it, of course, because it really wasn't much of an upset.

[Spalding No!]

You think the election was rigged?

It was worse than Jaden and Willow Smith "tying" for Best New Young Star at the BET Awards last night.

[PaceAdvantage]

Most people just knew that Zenyatta overall was the better horse.Yes, that must be it.

[PaceAdvantage]

You think the election was rigged?You think it's spelled Lucas?

[thaskalos]

Yet another testament to Zenyatta's greatness; we just can't stop talking about her...even months into her retirement.

And - as her "fans" so accurately predicted - the sport has sunk into total obscurity without her...

[Robert Fischer]

Mike Smith

[PaceAdvantage]

And - as her "fans" so accurately predicted - the sport has sunk into total obscurity without her...It has?

Did you live somewhere where horse racing was a regular feature of the nightly news when Zenyatta was running?

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike Smith...should never have stated Zenyatta was THE best horse he has ever ridden.

Holy Bull should bitch slap Mikey if he ever sees him again... :lol:

[BetCrazyGirl]

Yes, that must be it.

I'm happy you agree

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm happy you agreeDo you really believe that I agree?

[BetCrazyGirl]

Do you really believe that I agree?

Of course ;)

[GatetoWire]

PA: Just give up.

These are the same people who give out trophies to all the participants. Somewhere along the way the world forgot that actually winning was important.
Ask LeBron.
In 2011 you don't really need to win anymore....losing by a head or finishing 2nd is just too hard to take for the masses.
That's why they have award shows to make the losers feel better about finishing 2nd.

[BetCrazyGirl]

PA: Just give up.

These are the same people who give out trophies to all the participants. Somewhere along the way the world forgot that actually winning was important.
Ask LeBron.
In 2011 you don't really need to win anymore....losing by a head or finishing 2nd is just too hard to take for the masses.
That's why they have award shows to make the losers feel better about finishing 2nd.

Winning 19 races in a row and a lose by a head is truly a record of a loser.

[PaceAdvantage]

Winning 19 races in a row and a lose by a head is truly a record of a loser.If that is what was being claimed, you might be correct.

Alas, not.

[GatetoWire]

Winning 19 races in a row and a lose by a head is truly a record of a loser.
I never said she was a loser like that. Her record was fantastic going into the BC. She did lose her last race. The championship race.

See to win Championships you need to actually win the championship race. She lost in the finals. Just like LeBron.

Remember when the Patriots lost to the Giants after going undefeated. They didn't get voted team of the year because they lost in the Super Bowl.
You need to win the final big game to be the champion.

[thaskalos]

PA: Just give up.

These are the same people who give out trophies to all the participants. Somewhere along the way the world forgot that actually winning was important.
Ask LeBron.
In 2011 you don't really need to win anymore....losing by a head or finishing 2nd is just too hard to take for the masses.
That's why they have award shows to make the losers feel better about finishing 2nd.
Very profound...

Comparing the 2010 BC Classic to this year's NBA Finals.

And a very accurate analogy too...

I mean...how often does the best horse in the race finish second by a neck, instead of winning? Practically never! :rolleyes:

[GatetoWire]

Very profound...

Comparing the 2010 BC Classic to this year's NBA Finals.

And a very accurate analogy too...

I mean...how often does the best horse in the race finish second by a neck, instead of winning? Practically never! :rolleyes:

Ahh..yes....I know she should have won....almost won....could have won.

In sports almost doesn't count. I know the Z lovers just can't bear the fact that she lost but she did.

Give me a list of the greatest horses who almost won when it counted. Alydar almost beat Affirmed.
Real Quiet, Smarty Jones and Silver Charm almost got a Triple Crown.

2nd in the biggest race of the year is still 2nd.

[thaskalos]

Ahh..yes....I know she should have won....almost won....could have won.

In sports almost doesn't count. I know the Z lovers just can't bear the fact that she lost but she did.

Give me a list of the greatest horses who almost won when it counted. Alydar almost beat Affirmed.
Real Quiet, Smarty Jones and Silver Charm almost got a Triple Crown.

2nd in the biggest race of the year is still 2nd.
The "Z lovers" are prepared to take on the "Z haters" in a handicapping contest...ANYTIME! :cool:

[BetCrazyGirl]

I never said she was a loser like that. Her record was fantastic going into the BC. She did lose her last race. The championship race.

See to win Championships you need to actually win the championship race. She lost in the finals. Just like LeBron.

Remember when the Patriots lost to the Giants after going undefeated. They didn't get voted team of the year because they lost in the Super Bowl.
You need to win the final big game to be the champion.

Then she should of won the award in 2009 by that analogy, but wait, a horse that didn't even attempt the "Championship" race won that award.

[GatetoWire]

The "Z lovers" are prepared to take on the "Z haters" in a handicapping contest...ANYTIME! :cool:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't actually hate her. I really love Z!!!

I just don't understand how she could get HOY after Blame beat her fair and square and that people can argue that she deserved HOY.

She was a great mare...maybe the best ever but she happen to lose the biggest race of her life.

[BetCrazyGirl]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't actually hate her. I really love Z!!!

I just don't understand how she could get HOY after Blame beat her fair and square and that people can argue that she deserved HOY.

She was a great mare...maybe the best ever but she happen to lose the biggest race of her life.

What about when she did win that race and did not get HOY? If that is all HOY is based from?

[FenceBored]

Then she should of won the reward in 2009 by that analogy, but wait, a horse that didn't even attempt the "Championship" race won that award.

Don't forget Molly McCarty having to ship to Churchill to face Ten Broeck instead of the other way round? Another case of a top California mare done wrong by the evil Midwestern racing establishment, and all that.

[GatetoWire]

Then she should of won the award in 2009 by that analogy, but wait, a horse that didn't even attempt the "Championship" race won that award.
Ah...yes another weak argument.
In 2009 she beat turf horses on polycrap at Santa Anita.

Rachel completed the greatest campaign ever by a 3 year old filly. Maybe the greatest campaign by a horse ever.

Sorry but second again.

I really love Z but she was never the best horse in either 2009 or 2010 as hard as it is to fathom. She was second best both years. Probably will never happen again. Amazing set of circumstances.

[Grits]

Thinking I had seen everything, heard everything, read everything about Zenyatta? I've not. Not until today, when I looked on her FaceBook page.

"Zenyatta's the greatest horse of all time. Surpassing Secretariat", as reported by ESPN a few days before 2010 Breeders' Cup in a bit about her biomechanics. (I missed it at the time.)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5768422

Yes, she's a great mare!! Truly amazing on and off the track. But this is where it all stops. These two horses are NOT comparable. Nothing about them.

She's NOT greater than Secretariat. She's NOT even in the same hemisphere as Secretariat. She never has been. Those of us that know thoroughbred racing, and didn't come to it by, simply, holding up a sign at a SoCal racetrack for the last three years, we know this.

Guys, we been hanging together a good number of years now. There are a lot here who really know this sport--backwards, forwards and sideways. These people, on the other hand, don't know racing, they don't know racing history, they don't know horses, they don't know breeding, they damn sure don't know how to handicap and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. I've never read people with so little knowledge, including ESPN, who will do anything to reel in a viewer. I've also never read people so convinced that one horse saved thoroughbred racing. I don't how we're still schlepping along since her retirement. Some of this stuff, I'm sorry, its so blinded, so off the wall fawning and effusive, it borders on bizarre.

*** Betcrazygirl, give it up. PLEASE. Tell it to folks that don't know the sport. You're in the wrong room. You're in a group with far more knowledge than you possess. (That is if asking, "what is takeout?" as recently as 2009 is any indicator.)

[BetCrazyGirl]

Thinking I had seen everything, heard everything, read everything about Zenyatta? I've not. Not until today, when I looked on her FaceBook page.

"Zenyatta's the greatest horse of all time. Surpassing Secretariat", as reported by ESPN a few days before 2010 Breeders' Cup in a bit about her biomechanics. (I missed it at the time.)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5768422

Yes, she's a great mare!! Truly amazing on and off the track. But this is where it all stops. These two horses are NOT comparable. Nothing about them.

She's NOT greater than Secretariat.

*** Betcrazygirl, give it up. PLEASE. Tell it to folks that don't know the sport. You're in the wrong room. You're in a group with far more knowledge than you possess. (That is if asking, "what is takeout?" as recently as 2009 is any indicator.)

I agree she isn't greater than Secretariat but she is greater then RA and BTW Grits, its not 2009.

[cj]

Thanks, appreciate the Kudos!

:ThmbUp:

When I saw this thread was open again, I went and bet $100,000 it was stillneverright that revived it. I collected the princely sum of $105,000.

[GatetoWire]

I agree she isn't greater than Secretariat but she is greater then RA and BTW Grits, its not 2009.
Please tell me what Zenyatta did that was better than winning The Kentucky Oaks by the length of the stretch. The Preakness and the Haskell against 3 yr old males and then the Woodward against older males? All in the same season.

A 3 yr old filly beating older males in a Grade 1 race. Just read that one over a few times so that you get the full impact. 3 yr old filly beating older males in a Grade 1.

Kind of pales to Zenyatta beating Switch, St. Trinians and Gio Ponti while never leaving California.

[Grits]

I agree she isn't greater than Secretariat but she is greater then RA and BTW Grits, its not 2009.
BTW, excuse me, it was 2009, was it not, that you wrote this post?
10-25-2009 to be exact.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=774797#post774797

Originally posted by BetCrazyGirl
How does take out excatly work?

The curve is a long one, keep this in mind since there are many here you can learn from.

[BetCrazyGirl]

Please tell me what Zenyatta did that was better than winning The Kentucky Oaks by the length of the stretch. The Preakness and the Haskell against 3 yr old males and then the Woodward against older males? All in the same season.

A 3 yr old filly beating older males in a Grade 1 race. Just read that one over a few times so that you get the full impact. 3 yr old filly beating older males in a Grade 1.

Kind of pales to Zenyatta beating Switch, St. Trinians and Gio Ponti while never leaving California.

Her 2009 Breeder's Cup Classic Win and her second in the 2010 Breeder's Cup Classic. Her overall consistency as well was much greater then RA.

[BetCrazyGirl]

BTW, excuse me, it was 2009, was it not, that you wrote this post?
10-25-2009 to be exact.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=774797#post774797



The curve is a long one, keep this in mind since there are many here you can learn from.

and BTW, again, It is not 2009. Last I checked we are in 2011 :P . Plus take out doesn't have much to do with the actual horses themselves. That's more the business aspect of the game.

[HoofedInTheChest]

and BTW, again, It is not 2009. Last I checked we are in 2011 :P . Plus take out doesn't have much to do with the actual horses themselves. That's more the business aspect of the game.

What he is saying is you asked that question in 2009, roughly a year and a half ago, which speaks volumes about your knowledge of the game. I think your in over you head here, your arguing with some pretty savvy vets here, me not being one of them. Atleast i'm wise enough to realize not to question the knowledge on this board. I like Z alot but i would have to agree with them.

[BetCrazyGirl]

What he is saying is you asked that question in 2009, roughly a year and a half ago, which speaks volumes about your knowledge of the game. I think your in over you head here, your arguing with some pretty savvy vets here, me not being one of them. Atleast i'm wise enough to realize not to question the knowledge on this board. I like Z alot but i would have to agree with them.

If I don't know something, I ask but that doesn't disregard anything I've said and what about those who have been in the game for many years and agree Zenyatta was better? Are you going to tell them they shouldn't be debating?

[thaskalos]

What he is saying is you asked that question in 2009, roughly a year and a half ago, which speaks volumes about your knowledge of the game. I think your in over you head here, your arguing with some pretty savvy vets here, me not being one of them. Atleast i'm wise enough to realize not to question the knowledge on this board. I like Z alot but i would have to agree with them.
Are you implying that all the "savvy vets" on this board are in agreement that Zenyatta was NOT the best horse in training last year?

[Grits]

Asking something and learning from the answer is the correct path. Wising off isn't. Right, the horses are the game, and the game doesn't have much to do with takeout. OK!

I promise you, young lady, those that have been in the game for many years, for decades, KNOW that Zenyatta is not remotely comparable to Secretariat. It ain't even up for debate.

Carry on, I'm done. EOC

Originally posted by HoofedInTheChest

What he is saying is you asked that question in 2009, roughly a year and a half ago, which speaks volumes about your knowledge of the game. I think your in over you head here, your arguing with some pretty savvy vets here, me not being one of them. Atleast i'm wise enough to realize not to question the knowledge on this board. I like Z alot but i would have to agree with them.

HITC, thank you, yes, this is what I was stating, and I was clear in doing so.

[HoofedInTheChest]

You make a good point, but i think it's subjective, we can sit here all night having a pissing contest but it won't change anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but who's to say who's right or wrong, again it's subjective. If you believe you are right so be it, but i think Z was placed in some soft races over the years, but in the end she was a hell of a race horse, no question. I never liked saying who was best, or who is number one, it's subjective, it's like saying what's the best flower in world? They all have their qualities but you can't define one as the best.

[BetCrazyGirl]

Asking something and learning from the answer is the correct path. Wising off isn't. Right, the horses are the game, and the game doesn't have much to do with takeout. OK!

I promise you, young lady, those that have been in the game for many years, for decades, KNOW that Zenyatta is not remotely comparable to Secretariat. It ain't even up for debate.

Carry on, I'm done. EOC



HITC, thank you, yes, this is what I was stating, and I was clear in doing so.

And as I stated, and yet have to again, I didn't think she was greater than Secretariat. I said better than RA :). Also, I have wrote that the year RA won HOY I agreed with because of her accomplishments but if it came down to RA and Zenyatta I think Zenyatta is the better horse and would win. Now with stating Zenyatta should of won 2009, I was only stating that since some are making it as if the Breeder's Cup Classic is the major criteria to horse of the year, mainly Zen Haters!

If that is the case, then Zenyatta should of gotten it in 2009. The fact is Blame didn't do anything speical that year from what other horses have done in the past. The only thing that he did which was speical was beating Zenyatta, a horse which was undefeated, but Zenyatta's second is more impressive with what she overcame and how she nearly caught him, plus being a mare.

[thaskalos]

And as I stated, and yet have to again, I didn't think she was greater than Secretariat. I said better than RA :). Also, I have wrote that the year RA won HOY I agreed with because of her accomplishments but if it came down to RA and Zenyatta I think Zenyatta is the better horse and would win. Now with stating Zenyatta should of won 2009, I was only stating that since some are making it as if the Breeder's Cup Classic is the major criteria to horse of the year, mainly Zen Haters!

If that is the case, then Zenyatta should of gotten it in 2009. The fact is Blame didn't do anything speical that year from what other horses have done in the past. The only thing that he did which was speical was beating Zenyatta, a horse which was undefeated, but Zenyatta's second is more impressive with what she overcame and how she nearly caught him, plus being a mare.
Don't let them get to you BetCrazyGirl...OF COURSE Zenyatta was better than Rachel Alexandra...and most of the "savvy vets" of this board don't even think that this comparison is close.

The Rachel lovers of this board hold up Rachel's 3 year old campaign as testament to her greatness...while knocking Zenyatta's narrow defeat in last year's Classic...

Of course...they conveniently ignore Rachel's decidedly lackluster 4 year old campaign...

[PaceAdvantage]

What about when she did win that race and did not get HOY? If that is all HOY is based from?That's when the vote wasn't rigged.... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Of course...they conveniently ignore Rachel's decidedly lackluster 4 year old campaign...Secretariat didn't even race once at four. Ergo, he sucked.

[thaskalos]

Secretariat didn't even race once at four. Ergo, he sucked.
You seem to be in rare form tonight...

Since when is a disappointing 4 year old campaign the same as retiring at 3?

[Grits]

Secretariat didn't even race once at four. Ergo, he sucked.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: In your wildest dreams, bud.

[thaskalos]

Secretariat didn't even race once at four. Ergo, he sucked.
When Zenyatta fans compare Zenyatta to Secretariat, you smell blood...

Now that YOU have compared RACHEL to Secretariat...should we give you a pass? :)

[PaceAdvantage]

You seem to be in rare form tonight...I thought it was a pretty witty comeback myself... ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Now that YOU have compared RACHEL to Secretariat...should we give you a pass?I did no such thing. What I did, was negate your tearing down of Rachel by referencing her 4yo campaign, as if that somehow washes away all the talent we saw at 3.

What if Secretariat raced at 4 and wasn't the same? Then what? That was my point.

Again, I thought it was a pretty witty comeback. You may disagree, and I respect that.

[thaskalos]

I did no such thing. What I did, was negate your tearing down of Rachel by referencing her 4yo campaign, as if that somehow washes away all the talent we saw at 3.

Again, I thought it was a pretty witty comeback. You may disagree, and I respect that.
Is stating a fact the same as "tearing down"?

Am I supposed to view Rachel's career as if her 4 year old campaign didn't exist?

[PaceAdvantage]

Am I supposed to view Rachel's career as if her 4 year old campaign didn't exist?Do you believe she was the same horse with the same level of talent at four, but somehow everyone else just caught up to her?

If not, then the answer to your question is yes. If so, then the answer to your question is no.

[thaskalos]

I did no such thing. What I did, was negate your tearing down of Rachel by referencing her 4yo campaign, as if that somehow washes away all the talent we saw at 3.

What if Secretariat raced at 4 and wasn't the same? Then what? That was my point.

Again, I thought it was a pretty witty comeback. You may disagree, and I respect that.
And I respect your opinion too PA...

Rachel had a PHENOMENAL three year old campaign, but, career-wise, she falls short of Zenyatta's level of greatness IMO...

You are welcome to disagree of course...and my respect for you would remain intact...

[HoofedInTheChest]

Are you implying that all the "savvy vets" on this board are in agreement that Zenyatta was NOT the best horse in training last year?

I'm not implying anything, i can't speak for anyone else. What i am saying is i have alot of respect for some of the posters on this forum, you being one of them, and your knowledge of this game cannot be questioned, you have experienced far more than i or alot of others have. I have my opinion on the matter and i take your opinion into consideration. What i do know is Z brought alot of attention back to horse racing which is a good thing, i think that's what got her HOY. I think Blame was the more deserving horse but that's just me, i hope i'm not painting myself in a corner here.....lol

[PaceAdvantage]

And I respect your opinion too PA...

Rachel had a PHENOMENAL three year old campaign, but, career-wise, she falls short of Zenyatta's level of greatness IMO...

You are welcome to disagree of course...and my respect for you would remain intact...I think I would be an idiot if I claimed that Rachel had a better overall career than Zenyatta. And not being an idiot, I don't think I ever claimed any such thing.

[thaskalos]

I'm not implying anything, i can't speak for anyone else. What i am saying is i have alot of respect for some of the posters on this forum, you being one of them, and your knowledge of this game cannot be questioned, you have experienced far more than i or alot of others have. I have my opinion on the matter and i take your opinion into consideration. What i do know is Z brought alot of attention back to horse racing which is a good thing, i think that's what got her HOY. I think Blame was the more deserving horse but that's just me, i hope i'm not painting myself in a corner here.....lol
Just kidding...:)

All of us are entitled to our opinion...and ALL opinions should be respected.

I happen to agree with you...and have said so in the past. Blame DID deserve the HOY award; but I happen to also think that, if the 2010 Classic were to be run again...Zenyatta turns the tables on them...

HOY 2010.................BLAME

Best horse 2010........ZENYATTA

Our game is terribly unfair sometimes...in more ways than one.

[thaskalos]

I think I would be an idiot if I claimed that Rachel had a better overall career than Zenyatta. And not being an idiot, I don't think I ever claimed any such thing.
I never said you did.

In fact...we don't disagree about Zenyatta as much as you might think.

[Headbanger]

They didn't give the Buffalo Bills the Championship Trophy because they lost 20-19 to the Giants in 1990 on a really close field goal attempt. But that's what the voters did to Zenyatta. So why can't I celebrate a 1990 Bills Championship now since Zenyatta's horse of the year award is that story all over again.

[duncan04]

They didn't give the Buffalo Bills the Championship Trophy because they lost 20-19 to the Giants in 1990 on a really close field goal attempt. But that's what the voters did to Zenyatta. So why can't I celebrate a 1990 Bills Championship now since Zenyatta's horse of the year award is that story all over again.


Since when did the Breeders Cup Classic ever guarantee a Horse of the Year?

[thaskalos]

They didn't give the Buffalo Bills the Championship Trophy because they lost 20-19 to the Giants in 1990 on a really close field goal attempt. But that's what the voters did to Zenyatta. So why can't I celebrate a 1990 Bills Championship now since Zenyatta's horse of the year award is that story all over again.
Look who showed up...now that Zenyatta is back in the conversation....

Welcome back Headbanger...we were worried about you...:)

[elysiantraveller]

More importantly than this debate where no one here is really disagreeing how are people allowed to bring up threads from 6 months ago and then disappear from them?...

...trolling...

[Casino]

When I saw this thread was open again, I went and bet $100,000 it was stillneverright that revived it. I collected the princely sum of $105,000.

You cant make this stuff up,i cant get enough.100,000 to win 5,000.This is great!:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

More importantly than this debate where no one here is really disagreeing how are people allowed to bring up threads from 6 months ago and then disappear from them?...

...trolling...It's been slowly starting to sink in...very slowly...that's what Stillriledup seems to do best...

Perhaps I will learn one day...

[Stillriledup]

They didn't give the Buffalo Bills the Championship Trophy because they lost 20-19 to the Giants in 1990 on a really close field goal attempt. But that's what the voters did to Zenyatta. So why can't I celebrate a 1990 Bills Championship now since Zenyatta's horse of the year award is that story all over again.

This is not true. It would only be true if part of the HOY voting rules said that you have to vote for the BCC winner as HOY. Since that's not part of the rules that the voters have to adhere to, its not the same as your football analogy.

[woodtoo]

Since your on the subject of HOY.Who is the fontrunner for 2012,I know its
a bit early to tell for sure.Maybe we'll see some stunning 2 year old upset
the apple cart this summer.

[Stillriledup]

Since your on the subject of HOY.Who is the fontrunner for 2012,I know its
a bit early to tell for sure.Maybe we'll see some stunning 2 year old upset
the apple cart this summer.

This is a great question, i don't know of any horse who's taken the bull by the horns yet, certainly nobody in the 3 year old crop.

[toussaud]

Looking back on it blame got hosed. he ran a better 2010 campaign, and won the head to head match up yet lost because of sentiment.


2012 i'd have to go with goldikova so far honestly. if this year ends up l;ike it is so far, and goldy comes over here and wins AGAIN, i don't see how she doesn't get it

[Stillriledup]

Looking back on it blame got hosed. he ran a better 2010 campaign, and won the head to head match up yet lost because of sentiment.


2012 i'd have to go with goldikova so far honestly. if this year ends up l;ike it is so far, and goldy comes over here and wins AGAIN, i don't see how she doesn't get it

If Blame won the BC and was undefeated in 2010, he might have won HOY. He lost 1 of his 5 races on the year, that was enough to do him in according to the voters.

[exactatom]

His loss came after he arrived at Belmont very late the evening before due to storms in the Midwest and East Coast. This would have not been an issue for Zenyatta as she never travelled East except one time (Oh I forgot she came to Louisville once before and was scratched from a stakes race on Oaks card because of a little rain). They raced head to head on the track and Blame won. That is how champions are made by earning a victory, not having it handed to them in a popularity contest. Who ran the tougher campaign? Who faced and beat more graded horses during the year?

[thaskalos]

His loss came after he arrived at Belmont very late the evening before due to storms in the Midwest and East Coast. This would have not been an issue for Zenyatta as she never travelled East except one time (Oh I forgot she came to Louisville once before and was scratched from a stakes race on Oaks card because of a little rain). They raced head to head on the track and Blame won. That is how champions are made by earning a victory, not having it handed to them in a popularity contest. Who ran the tougher campaign? Who faced and beat more graded horses during the year?
You are right!

Champions are crowned on the track...where it counts.

The Eclipse Awards ceremony is nothing more than racing's version of the OSCARS...where racing's "high society" gets a chance to shine in the spotlight which normally avoids them.

And the awards themselves are nothing more than popularity contests...just like they were intended to be.

If they were meant to be taken seriously...then there would be some rules in place to influence the voting.

[Some_One]

It's obvious now in hindsight Z was protected so that her entire career came down to 2 races as the rest were meaningless. Everything that the Mosses and Sheriffs stated about her campaign appears to be a lie, especially the part about how tough it is to ship across the country considering that Zazu will be making her 3rd or 4th trip east to run in the Alabama at Saratoga instead of facing elders in the Hirsch at Dmr (or try the 3yrF-only DMR Oaks which is on turf).

[toussaud]

the biggest miss in horse racing, probably in my lifetime and future life time will be that Rachel alexandra and zenyatta never ran in the same race. I cannot believe they could not figure out a way to make this happen. fail fail fail on everyone. opprotunities like that only come once in a blue moon and everyone dropped the ball