12% Takeout too Low? Some Simulcast Outlets Refuse to take Wagers!

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60125/hialeah-opening-second-quarter-horse-meet

Excerpt:

Several simulcast outlets are not taking Hialeah’s signal in its second season because of the economics of a 12% takeout , Soth said. But Hialeah expects to have about 120 outlets. Unlike in its first meet, Hialeah can send its signal to pari-mutuel outlets in Florida.

[PhantomOnTour]

Randy Soth? The same guy who ran FG? I don't like the job he did there and am none too excited about what he'll do at Hialeah.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I'd like to see their handle at least double as a minimum here (they did 100k a day last year).

Oh, and Horseplayersbet.com is gladly taking their signal as well as giving out bonuses on all wagers made there.

It will be interesting to see what happens here.

[jballscalls]

12%-takeout
-3% for Hialeah's signal fee
-5% for horseman/purses
-2% for racing commission/state
-couple hundred bucks a month for decoders and fees
-teller and employee costs

gonna be tough for tracks to take them and make money, but i wish them the best of luck. Pete Aiello who i know works for them is a good guy!

[PhantomOnTour]

Randy Soth became the GM of Caymanas Park in Jamaica after leaving FG. How do you wind up there after FG?

Minor tangent coming...
Caymanas Park is the setting for an old obscure hit by The Pioneers called 'Longshot Kick The Bucket'. It tells of a stretch duel in the first race at Caymanas between Gay Blade, Combat and Carousel. Combat was the longshot who got the lead on the rail and then fell..."and all me money gone a' hell" as the song goes. Funny stuff...youtube it :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

If 12% is too low for some people I wonder how they will pervert exchange wagering when it gets here. I can't see them offering the 5% deal.

Maybe someone can explain how that will work.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

If 12% is too low for some people I wonder how they will pervert exchange wagering when it gets here. I can't see them offering the 5% deal.

Maybe someone can explain how that will work.
Exchange betting is closer to blackjack. The player sits by the computer, matches bets on horses they like and matching bets on horses they don't like. In the end, during a two or three hour session, they have wagered more than they would have betting through parimutuel in most cases. So the churn works out that the players lose collectively as much at 5% over a period of time as they would have if they made parimutuel bets at a 20% takeout.

At least this is what happens in theory. The key to exchange betting is that even if it doesn't yield the same money bottom line from existing players, it introduces new players to the game that will more than compensate for the losses in the parimutuel pool......at least in theory....though that seems to be the case in Australia.

[andymays]

Exchange betting is closer to blackjack. The player sits by the computer, matches bets on horses they like and matching bets on horses they don't like. In the end, during a two or three hour session, they have wagered more than they would have betting through parimutuel in most cases. So the churn works out that the players lose collectively as much at 5% over a period of time as they would have if they made parimutuel bets at a 20% takeout.

At least this is what happens in theory. The key to exchange betting is that even if it doesn't yield the same money bottom line from existing players, it introduces new players to the game that will more than compensate for the losses in the parimutuel pool......at least in theory....though that seems to be the case in Australia.

When it came up in California too many of the people who are for higher takeout were also for Exchange wagering. Many of these same people could care less about Horseplayers. I can't reconcile that and I don't trust the people out here running things.

I could see them making the exchange wagering deal 10% or more and then telling us we're better off than we were before.

[cj]

Eventually these outlets are going to have to learn to survive on 12%, or less, or go out of business.

[JustRalph]

Eventually these outlets are going to have to learn to survive on 12%, or less, or go out of business.

why is 12% not enough? Isn't most of the handle or overhead automated ?

Somebody fill me in.......... what are the actual labor costs to take a bet?

[jelly]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60125/hialeah-opening-second-quarter-horse-meet

Excerpt:

Several simulcast outlets are not taking Hialeah’s signal in its second season because of the economics of a 12% takeout , Soth said. But Hialeah expects to have about 120 outlets. Unlike in its first meet, Hialeah can send its signal to pari-mutuel outlets in Florida.




Any way of knowing which simulcast outlets will not take the signal?


I think the horseplayers should know this.

[Spiderman]

12%-takeout
-3% for Hialeah's signal fee
-5% for horseman/purses
-2% for racing commission/state
-couple hundred bucks a month for decoders and fees
-teller and employee costs

gonna be tough for tracks to take them and make money, but i wish them the best of luck. Pete Aiello who i know works for them is a good guy!
The simulcast outlets should look at Hialeah for good will and wish that it succeeds at lower taleout. The total handle will be minimal; the overhead of running the center is covered and Hialeah action does not carry any additional cost.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

12%-takeout
-3% for Hialeah's signal fee
-5% for horseman/purses
-2% for racing commission/state
-couple hundred bucks a month for decoders and fees
-teller and employee costs

gonna be tough for tracks to take them and make money, but i wish them the best of luck. Pete Aiello who i know works for them is a good guy!

So the horsemen get 5% and racing commission/state get 2% no matter what the takeout/host fee is?

If so, PM gets 21% free and clear on a Penn Nat trifecta? That's pretty good for the track if they get 21% and the horsemen get 5%.

[jballscalls]

So the horsemen get 5% and racing commission/state get 2% no matter what the takeout/host fee is?

If so, PM gets 21% free and clear on a Penn Nat trifecta? That's pretty good for the track if they get 21% and the horsemen get 5%.

it is isn't it :)

i dont know any of the particulars, i'm an announcer and media guy

i was just told by the powers that be once that the average blended take rate for all tracks was 21% or so, and we usually end up with 10% on simulcast wagers after horseman, signal fee, state etc

the numbers i gave were approximations, i'm sure there fractionally not exact

[Track Collector]

If reductions in takeout really do benefit all, then ALL who have a hand in the current takeout pie need to contribute accordingly. Are the Horsemen Associations and State Racing Commissions prepared to lessen their cut too for the sake of getting more money directed to them?

[senortout]

Exchange betting is closer to blackjack. The player sits by the computer, matches bets on horses they like and matching bets on horses they don't like. In the end, during a two or three hour session, they have wagered more than they would have betting through parimutuel in most cases. So the churn works out that the players lose collectively as much at 5% over a period of time as they would have if they made parimutuel bets at a 20% takeout.

At least this is what happens in theory. The key to exchange betting is that even if it doesn't yield the same money bottom line from existing players, it introduces new players to the game that will more than compensate for the losses in the parimutuel pool......at least in theory....though that seems to be the case in Australia.

Ok, gimme the lowdown, anybody know how easy it is to match up, get takers on propositions using Betfair?.....seems if you are willing to lay a horse there can't be too many sharp bettors willing to take the horse....or do you have to accept much lower odds on that happening in order to close the deal? Not sure I have framed my question correctly, excuse that!

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Ok, gimme the lowdown, anybody know how easy it is to match up, get takers on propositions using Betfair?.....seems if you are willing to lay a horse there can't be too many sharp bettors willing to take the horse....or do you have to accept much lower odds on that happening in order to close the deal? Not sure I have framed my question correctly, excuse that!
People can jitney. If the price is too low on Betfair, they can bet the horse in the mutuel pools. Usually you get a premium because the takeout is less on Betfair.
There are liquidity problems though and usually there are two reasons for it. Too many races are going off at around the same time or there isn't a real favorite or two. Generally, favorites are very liquid and if there is a hot fave in the race, it creates lots of liquidity for all other horses.

[Some_One]

Getting matched is usually not a problem, however remember that it is effectively a separate pool then the on track odds, so as a layer, you'll usually never get track odds, mainly because a tote pool odds add up to 120-125%, on Betfair, the odds add up to 105% (no takeout=100%), so while you can get lay 2.5 on a 2-1 shot, if you see a horse on track at 10s, you might have to lay 15s (of course if you are a backer, it's great).

[rycommon]

do horseplayersbet.com accept players from california ?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

do horseplayersbet.com accept players from california ?
Sorry. I wish we did, but we don't.

[vegasone]

As usual they forget about the churn factor......Like in casinos they don't need to get all the money the first 2 races.....give more money back and they will keep playing till its all gone anyway. It shouldn't cost more to let people continue to enjoy their experience longer.