View Full Version : Zenyatta should be Horse of the Year
WillA
11-23-2010, 05:02 PM
http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-paducah/zenyatta-should-be-horse-of-the-year
Stillriledup
11-23-2010, 05:19 PM
Amen. :ThmbUp:
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 05:23 PM
http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-paducah/zenyatta-should-be-horse-of-the-year
Here's what you wrote:
This year, those same people want you to believe that the Classic is all that matters.Absolutely not true! In fact, I can't believe you can write such a thing.
Let's throw the Classic totally out of the picture. When you do that, Blame becomes an EVEN MORE prohibitive favorite for the award!!
Why?
Because that leaves Zenyatta NEVER FACING a SINGLE GRADE 1 winner in ANY of her 2010 starts. And every one of those 2010 starts came in RESTRICTED Grade 1 races, compared to Blame, who ran and won MULTIPLE unrestricted Grade 1 races.
How in the world can you give HOTY to Zenyatta if you throw out the results of the classic? So, if you can't give it to her if you throw out the classic, and you can't give it to her if you consider the classic (she lost to Blame after all), how do you give it to her?
Objectively....tell me how....I've just told you I absolutely believe the classic is NOT all that matters...
Saratoga_Mike
11-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Here's what you wrote:
Absolutely not true! In fact, I can't believe you can write such a thing.
Let's throw the Classic totally out of the picture. When you do that, Blame becomes an EVEN MORE prohibitive favorite for the award!!
Why?
Because that leaves Zenyatta having NEVER FACED a SINGLE GRADE 1 winner in ANY of her 2010 starts. And every one of those 2010 starts came in RESTRICTED Grade 1 races, compared to Blame, who ran and won MULTIPLE unrestricted Grade 1 races.
How in the world can you give HOTY to Zenyatta if you throw out the results of the classic? So, if you can't give it to her if you throw out the classic, and you can't give it to her if you consider the classic, how do you give it to her?
Objectively....tell me how....I've just told you I absolutely believe the classic is NOT all that matters...
But she deserves it. It just isn't fair not to give it to her. :rolleyes:
horses4courses
11-23-2010, 05:26 PM
Of course, it will rile the purists.
Though, just about everything Zenyatta accomplished never met with their approval, anyway.
As ambivalent as I am to such awards, 2010 HOTY for the big mare would be a nice statement. :ThmbUp:
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 05:27 PM
I'm really, really trying to understand the thinking here...but the more I read, the more absurd it gets.
"This year, those same people want you to believe that the Classic is all that matters."
I'm flabbergasted at the above quote...I really am, because at least in my case and many others on here, that just isn't true at all. The Classic is completely unnecessary. Most people going into the race were of the opinion that she absolutely needed to win the race, or run well and have some fluke horse win, in order to lock up HOTY.
Revisionist history abounds I suppose.
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 05:32 PM
Oh, and the above article gets better (I didn't think that was possible).
In part it's sexism, the refusal to believe that a female could really be better than a male.Wow. :eek: :faint: :bang:
Yeah Will, that's what it is...sexism.... :lol:
Stillriledup
11-23-2010, 05:45 PM
I'm really, really trying to understand the thinking here...but the more I read, the more absurd it gets.
"This year, those same people want you to believe that the Classic is all that matters."
I'm flabbergasted at the above quote...I really am, because at least in my case and many others on here, that just isn't true at all. The Classic is completely unnecessary. Most people going into the race were of the opinion that she absolutely needed to win the race, or run well and have some fluke horse win, in order to lock up HOTY.
Revisionist history abounds I suppose.
The way i saw it is that it was Z's HOY to lose. She was 'way in front' in the hypothetical voting and only a catastrophe at the BC would have prevented her from winning the HOY. Since she raced great, she held onto her 'hypothetical big lead' she enjoyed going into the race. It was hers to lose, and she didn't lose it...in fact, her excellent performance only strengthened her case.
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 05:50 PM
The way i saw it is that it was Z's HOY to lose. She was 'way in front' in the hypothetical voting and only a catastrophe at the BC would have prevented her from winning the HOY. Since she raced great, she held onto her 'hypothetical big lead' she enjoyed going into the race. It was hers to lose, and she didn't lose it...in fact, her excellent performance only strengthened her case.HOW?
You're telling me, all a filly & mare has to do is win 5 Grade 1 F&M races and they are HOTY front-runners? That's all it takes?
What other F&Ms in recent history have won 5 Grade 1 F&M races and have NOT won HOTY?
It's called HOTY for a reason. There are separate awards for best older horse, best older F&M, best 3yo.
But this is the HOTY. You don't get HOTY by winning 5 restricted Grade 1 races. Sorry, but you need to do more than that, unless the year is so incredibly devoid of talent in the open company realm.
If Zenyatta had finished a head behind Musket Man, then yeah, she should be HOTY. But she finished behind Blame. Big difference.
johnhannibalsmith
11-23-2010, 05:57 PM
...
Yeah Will, that's what it is...sexism.... :lol:
I considered following the link... until this excerpt... bleccch...
JustRalph
11-23-2010, 06:08 PM
you get paid for rationalizing or writing ?
Come on Will? You gotta be kidding...........
She deserved it last year, not this year. Blame is HOY.
joanied
11-23-2010, 06:14 PM
In the BloodHorse magazine (Nov. 20) they have an article about HoY voting...they are probably going to impliment a point based system for that one catagory...HoY.
The way they have it set up as a proposed system is:
Grade I & Group I - 20 10 5 points (win, place, show)
Grade II & Group II - 10 5 0 pts.
Grade III & Group II - 5 0 0 pts.
all other clssifications get no points.
They go on to say, if this system was in place for 2009, the points would have yielded the following results:
Rachel Alexandra 150 pts.
Zenyatta 120 pts.
if this system was in place for 2010, the results would yeild the following results:
Zenyatta 110 pts.
Blame 95 pts.
It also says in the article, in the event of two horses having the same point total...the HoY award would be shared between the two.
IMO, this would be a good thing to do...we won't have many arguments, there won't be any bias...the points would speak for themselves and the horse most worthy for his/her racing campaign during the year would be voted HoY.
Simple, easy and fool proof:ThmbUp:
If Zenyatta gets the top honor this year, maybe everyone will go back to this point system and realize that she actually did do better than Blame this year.
Bullet Plane
11-23-2010, 06:20 PM
In the BloodHorse magazine (Nov. 20) they have an article about HoY voting...they are probably going to impliment a point based system for that one catagory...HoY.
The way they have it set up as a proposed system is:
Grade I & Group I - 20 10 5 points (win, place, show)
Grade II & Group II - 10 5 0 pts.
Grade III & Group II - 5 0 0 pts.
all other clssifications get no points.
They go on to say, if this system was in place for 2009, the points would have yielded the following results:
Rachel Alexandra 150 pts.
Zenyatta 120 pts.
if this system was in place for 2010, the results would yeild the following results:
Zenyatta 110 pts.
Blame 95 pts.
It also says in the article, in the event of two horses having the same point total...the HoY award would be shared between the two.
IMO, this would be a good thing to do...we won't have many arguments, there won't be any bias...the points would speak for themselves and the horse most worthy for his/her racing campaign during the year would be voted HoY.
Simple, easy and fool proof:ThmbUp:
If Zenyatta gets the top honor this year, maybe everyone will go back to this point system and realize that she actually did do better than Blame this year.
Rigid systems like this are no good. Look at the BCS.
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 06:21 PM
Why change the system? Because certain people don't like the results?
That's like when they harp about changing up the Triple Crown because nobody has won it in a while.
If they put this plan into place, they should make those points based on how many other Graded winners are in the field...if they do that this year, Blame blows Zenyatta out of the water.
Relwob Owner
11-23-2010, 06:32 PM
Oh, and the above article gets better (I didn't think that was possible).
Wow. :eek: :faint: :bang:
Yeah Will, that's what it is...sexism.... :lol:
It is funny...in another thread, I questioned you being "offended" by some of the Z thoughts and opinions. After reading this one so far, I am finding myself almost offended as well!
The year that a Horse of the Year is given to a horse that hasnt won a non restricted race is the year that the award permanently loses all significance.
BluegrassProf
11-23-2010, 07:16 PM
If they put this plan into place, they should make those points based on how many other Graded winners are in the field...if they do that this year, Blame blows Zenyatta out of the water.Sean Connery says:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3401373619_756730d44d_t.jpg --- "Absholootely."
Not all G1s are made from the same stuff - in fact, some are downright embarrassing (particularly when considering things like restrictions and surface). This is a basic reality not only of sports, but of everyday life - you'd feel less enthused if the people you were promoted over at the office were, say, 8.
A grade-to-point system would legitimize this fundamental embarrassment...that may sit well with some folks, but not me, and certainly not Mr. Bond.
A race is only as lofty as the competition running in it - a previously-set grade is little more than a title, a word, without substance or character; calling a spade a Telecaster doesn't make it any less a spade. You'd think we would've figured that out by now.
"Look at the bloody horshes."
Sean has it all figured out, and wonders why we're so damned slow on the uptake.
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 07:19 PM
The year that a Horse of the Year is given to a horse that hasnt won a non restricted race is the year that the award permanently loses all significance.Didn't that already happen with Azeri in 2002?
horses4courses
11-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Didn't that already happen with Azeri in 2002?
What about Favorite Trick?
FenceBored
11-23-2010, 07:29 PM
http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-paducah/zenyatta-should-be-horse-of-the-year
Factually inaccurate and logically falacious.
PaceAdvantage
11-23-2010, 07:32 PM
And Secretariat at 2...
In Azeri's case, there wasn't any other choice...War Emblem? Left Bank? Rock of Gibralter were the other finalists.
This year is certainly different with the presence of Blame. There really is no debate. The rational among us all know exactly who should be Horse of the Year.
Relwob Owner
11-23-2010, 07:35 PM
Didn't that already happen with Azeri in 2002?
yup.....forgot about that one .....the older I get, the more the ole memory fails....guess the significance is already gone!:)
thaskalos
11-23-2010, 07:44 PM
There really is no debate. The rational among us all know exactly who should be Horse of the Year.
The question isn't about whether or not Blame deserves the HOY award...of course he does!
The question is...can the HOY voters be trusted to do the right thing, or will they be swayed by sentiment?
And I don't think that this is an easy question to answer...
Just when you think a sillier argument can't be made, out pops a new contender.
horses4courses
11-23-2010, 07:46 PM
The rational among us all know exactly who should be Horse of the Year.
Yes, you may well be right.
Although, with the risk of appearing irrational, maybe it's time to think outside the box, for a change.
Relwob Owner
11-23-2010, 07:49 PM
What about Favorite Trick?
Yup.....memory still failing.....The Horse of the Year award is dead to me.....
thaskalos
11-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Just when you think a sillier argument can't be made, out pops a new contender.If you are directing this at me I suggest you re-read what I wrote. There was no "argument" in my post...I clearly indicated what I considered to be the right thing to do.
But I have also been around long enough to know that sentimentality should not be under-rated in these "award" proceedings.
If you are directing this at me I suggest you re-read what I wrote. There was no "argument" in my post...I clearly indicated what I considered to be the right thing to do.
But I have also been around long enough to know that sentimentality should not be under-rated in these "award" proceedings.
Not at all...the original article, that is all.
joanied
11-23-2010, 08:25 PM
Guess you'll have to take it up with the folks that run the show...
I didn't write the article, I didn't suggest the point system...
She deserved it last year, not this year. Blame is HOY.
She deserved it in 2008, not this year, or last year.
Cardus
11-23-2010, 10:04 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPUvoOBh1iW64iPQc8MMz-wMAU8vyBIZMGdaOMZwS7lcK0VlBOtA
The bottom of the barrel.
keithw84
11-23-2010, 10:15 PM
The author neglects to mention that Zenyatta's Del Mar track record was a synthetic track record. Setting track records is impressive, but it's not as impressive when your are only breaking a year or so worth of records.
Cardus
11-23-2010, 11:40 PM
The author neglects a lot, Keith.
PhantomOnTour
11-24-2010, 01:55 AM
The silliness never ends
letswastemoney
11-24-2010, 02:42 AM
The author neglects a lot, Keith.
That's sexist. Booo. Didn't you know Zenyatta single handedly raised BC handle by 9000022343546%? Just hand her the trophy right now. No need to vote.
Charlie D
11-24-2010, 05:30 AM
Yes, Blame beat Zenyatta by a head in the Classic. But there is precedent from giving the Horse of the Year award to a horse who failed to win the Classic. Two years ago Curlin finished fourth in the Classic. He was beaten by 4 1/4 lengths. And that was one of two races he lost in 2008. But Curlin was named Horse of the Year instead of the winner of the Classic, Ravens Pass, or the other two horses who finished ahead of him - Henry the Navigator and Tiago
Yes, but you seem to be forgetting the Classic win was the only time Ravens Pass ran in US, you also seem to forget Curlins win in JCGC, Woodward,Stephen Foster and Dubai World Cup.
If a horse had a similar race record to Curlin in 2010 they would be HOY.
Observation: People seem to have selective memory or temporary blindness when discussing Zen
bigmack
11-24-2010, 05:40 AM
Factually inaccurate and logically falacious.
Ooo. Lovin' me some of them big words.
What does falacious mean?
FenceBored
11-24-2010, 07:59 AM
Ooo. Lovin' me some of them big words.
What does falacious mean?
Like "fallacious (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fallacious)," but with the 'factory seconds' markdown it's more affordable for a wordsmith on a tight budget.
cpitt84
11-24-2010, 04:33 PM
I just read that zenyatta ran 5F in 1:00.
Such a shame she's leaving the sport when she's still got it.
FenceBored
11-24-2010, 04:37 PM
I just read that zenyatta ran 5F in 1:00.
Such a shame she's leaving the sport when she's still got it.
:confused: Equibase lists her last workout as 10/31 at 6f.
Now ZARDANA worked 5f in 1:00 yesterday.
cpitt84
11-24-2010, 05:21 PM
:confused: Equibase lists her last workout as 10/31 at 6f.
Now ZARDANA worked 5f in 1:00 yesterday.
My bad! I freakin read the wrong thing...person said she dreampt it :bang: I need to read more slowly before posting!
FenceBored
11-29-2010, 09:39 AM
Those ECZH (East Coast Zenyatta Haters) are at it again:
he connections of Zenyatta decided very early this year that their mare's pre-Breeders' Cup Classic campaign would consist solely of races against fillies and mares. Any suggestion that they shake up their pre-Classic schedule with a race or two against males either in California or elsewhere was dismissed out of hand, a parochial and odd view to take if the sole purpose of keeping her training this year was to garner a Horse of the Year title they felt was wrongly denied them in 2009. From their point of view, it was the results of the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs that would solely determine Horse of the Year. When this unspoken pronouncement was understood, the only respectful thing to say was, "Have it your way."
-- http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=20536 (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=20536)
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