Forty Seven Years Ago Today

[sonnyp]

really surprised it hasn't already been posted. hard to believe it's been almost 50 years since the assassination of JFK in dallas on november 22, 1963.

will never buy the single assassin, magic bullet, and nonsense "warren report".

was that the single event that changed this country forever ? was that the beginning of the end ?

it sure seemed as though things were different before. one of those things you remember as though it were yesterday.....where you were and what you were doing.

[Market Mover]

really surprised it hasn't already been posted. hard to believe it's been almost 50 years since the assassination of JFK in dallas on november 22, 1963.

will never buy the single assassin, magic bullet, and nonsense "warren report".

was that the single event that changed this country forever ? was that the beginning of the end ?

it sure seemed as though things were different before. one of those things you remember as though it were yesterday.....where you were and what you were doing.


That, and the assassination of President Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam the same year, which changed the war in Vietnam forever?

[cj's dad]

That, and the assassination of President Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam the same year, which changed the war in Vietnam forever?

You're comparing the death of a 3rd world dictator to the murder of JFK ??

Amazing !!

[lamboguy]

i shook JFK"S hand in a beach in south boston when i was a kid when he was running for congress. i will never forget that hot saturday afternoon, all the women were screaming that day, he was only at city point beach for about 10 minutes. it turned out to be one my highlights as a kid. i grew up with a single parent, my mother who had nothing going for her but hope and the ability to translate english and italian. he was an uplifting personaly and an inspirational effect on my mother, she wound becoming the italian trade commisioner in boston. she wound up with a pretty decent life.

[Overlay]

Today is also the 47th anniversary of the passing of English author and Christian apologist C. S. Lewis (subject of the movie Shadowlands).

[Market Mover]

You're comparing the death of a 3rd world dictator to the murder of JFK ??

Amazing !!


Of course he's a dictator when you read the accounts of his life written by those who want you to know such. But have you read about Cable 243? About what $42K could do to military generals who were "coup-happy?"

Try varying your sources....

[newtothegame]

Kind of have top agree with CJ's dad here market. Although I am sure general (whatever his name was) has some importance, and probably even more importance to those who served during vietnam, when Nov 22 is mentioned I am NOT thinking General ......
I would think that if you asked a thousand americans (age relevant) about that date, very FEW if any (yourself not included) would mention anyone other then JFK.

[bigmack]

will never buy the single assassin, magic bullet, and nonsense "warren report".
How are people unable to buy that? Is there anything valid to lead to any other conclusion?

[newtothegame]

Watched a movie here and there....a few documentaries etc etc (as most have). And quite honestly Mack...although there arent many "other" valid theories as to what happened that day, the Warren report didnt exactly exude confidence in its findings.

Question is, will we ever know what really happened that day! ???

[dav4463]

Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

There are no UFO coverups.

Jim Morrison and Elvis Presley are both dead.

Paul McCartney is very much alive.

9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists.

The New World Order does not control everything.

[newtothegame]

Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

There are no UFO coverups.

Jim Morrison and Elvis Presley are both dead.

Paul McCartney is very much alive.

9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists.

The New World Order does not control everything.

"Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone."

ok....

Jim Morrison and Elvis Presley are both dead.

Gee I hope so...I would hate to think I paid for a tour in an "alive" guys house lol.

9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists.

Hope so...as I didnt think NON terrorists committed such acts lol.

The New World Order does not control everything.

Only the things they wish to control lol :lol: :lol: :faint:

[sonnyp]

How are people unable to buy that? Is there anything valid to lead to any other conclusion?


oswald, being lefthanded and supposedly using standard righthanded bolt action rifle with manual ejection would have been hard pressed if not impossible to fire 6 rounds with accurracy at that distance in that time frame.

the "kill shot" which does all the damage to his head just as the limo comes out from behind the road sign in the lower left portion of the frame certainly seems more liklely to have come from a position forward of the vehicle (the grassy knoll) than from behind the vehicle (the booksupository building) where oswald aledgedly acted aone.

i've shot many deer with 12 guage shotguns and know what a slug looks like after entering a deer carcuss. it's usually fragmented, twisted and blunted after striking the skin, flesh and some one of its target,

the pristine projectile the warren report leads us to believe passed trough both kennedy and connelly after changing direction after leaving kennedy and before entering connelly and eventually lodging in connelly's wrist (ala the magic bullet) is laughable and insulting to anyone familiar with ballistics.

then on sunday morning, jack ruby, just taking a walk, decides he'll just walk down the ramp into the parking garage of the dallas police station, with no credentials, and view first hand the transfer of the most important prisoner on the planet. while standing there, he decides, what the heck, i'll shot him, he deserves it.

for me, pretty tough stuff to swallow.

[bigmack]

oswald, being lefthanded and supposedly using standard righthanded bolt action rifle with manual ejection would have been hard pressed if not impossible to fire 6 rounds with accurracy at that distance in that time frame.
Oswald had a window sill for a rest. There was no need for him to hold the forearm with his right hand. He could leave his hand on the bolt.

I remember reading a study done about this. It took many marksmen, put them in a mock-up of Dallas, and had them try to get the shots off in time, with same (or better) accuracy. Out of something like 50 shooters, 3 were able to do it. All three shot left handed. All three rested the forearm on the window sill. All three worked the bolt with their right hand.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469163

[Marshall Bennett]

Forty seven years later and people still doubt. Science has proven beyond a doubt that Oswald was the trigger man.

Do you also doubt that we ever landed on the moon as well?

[cj's dad]

Oswald had a window sill for a rest. There was no need for him to hold the forearm with his right hand. He could leave his hand on the bolt.

I remember reading a study done about this. It took many marksmen, put them in a mock-up of Dallas, and had them try to get the shots off in time, with same (or better) accuracy. Out of something like 50 shooters, 3 were able to do it. All three shot left handed. All three rested the forearm on the window sill. All three worked the bolt with their right hand.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469163

So, 6% of marksmen were able to do what LHO did and you are using this to enhance your belief that he was the lone gunman. Strange logic IMO.

[bigmack]

So, 6% of marksmen were able to do what LHO did and you are using this to enhance your belief that he was the lone gunman. Strange logic IMO.
We've gone from sonnyp saying it was impossible to 6%. Clearly, it's possible.

What exactly are you bringing to the discussion? As usual, not much.

[sonnyp]

Forty seven years later and people still doubt. Science has proven beyond a doubt that Oswald was the trigger man.

Do you also doubt that we ever landed on the moon as well?



science (the government) has proven nothing.

jfk, as well liked by the masses as he is portrayed, he made some powerful enemies. he didn't send the troop support he had promised to the cuban "bay of pigs". that abandoned group was routed allowing castro to take over and "nationalize" all the property and wealth of the american owned (the mob)casinos .

his dad had gone to hoffa desperately needing the teamster vote to win the ellection which he eventually got with the support of hoffa. after he gets in, he makes little brother bobby attorney general and who becomes one of their early targets ? hoffa. ". thanks for the help, allow us to return the favor".

[boxcar]

The New World Order does not control everything.

That will soon change.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

science (the government) has proven nothing.
They've shown a boatload more evidence for their case than others saying it was impossible for Oswald to have acted alone.

[sonnyp]

They've shown a boatload more evidence for their case than others saying it was impossible for Oswald to have acted alone.



you mean a boat load of evidence like their "magic bullet" and 6% of marksmen could accomplish the shooting. LHO was a poor shot at best according to his military records.

don't forget, back then the government was used to dishing out a lot of unchallenged bullsh=t which the general public was just expected to consume. they still do......we're all idiots and they can spin anything at our expense.

[Marshall Bennett]

No one will have their opinions changed here by me or anyone else. Along with religion and politics, it's all relative.
I would add this however, Oswald was a nutcase. Whether any organization would recruit such an individual to undertake such a mission will always remain inconclusive, but I would find it quite bizzare.
After all these years and with all the research done, nothing has been found to suggest Oswald didn't act alone. Only theory.

[cj's dad]

We've gone from sonnyp saying it was impossible to 6%. Clearly, it's possible.

What exactly are you bringing to the discussion? As usual, not much.

Hopefully for your sake you don't bet on horses that have a 6% chance of winning.

And as usual, when another poster criticizes something lil ol Bigmack says, then he or she is not bringing anything to the table.

Whassa madda lil Bigmack, you get your lil feelings hurt :lol:

[FantasticDan]

ABC News aired a fantastic documentary a few yrs back that addressed and dispelled all the conspiracy theories very convincingly, using facts and empirical data. If you're into that sorta thing.. :lol:

http://www.amazon.com/ABC-News-Presents-Kennedy-Assassination/dp/B0001BFDKU

[bigmack]

Hopefully for your sake you don't bet on horses that have a 6% chance of winning.

And as usual, when another poster criticizes something lil ol Bigmack says, then he or she is not bringing anything to the table.
I see you're on your menstrual cycle again and are roaming around for a little scuffle. I understand you're still miffed about our last bout when you stuck your nose into a place it didn't belong.

Go easy, I'm in a weakened state. "Lib for a week" & all.

I'd point out to you that my post to sonny was in response to his saying it was an impossibility as well as it wasn't even my own words :D if you bothered to check.

Careful where you stick that schnozzola. :rolleyes:

[cj's dad]

Man I'm a shakin'

[Tape Reader]

[
i've shot many deer with 12 guage shotguns and know what a slug looks like after entering a deer carcuss. it's usually fragmented, twisted and blunted after striking the skin, flesh and some one of its target,

the pristine projectile the warren report leads us to believe passed trough both kennedy and connelly after changing direction after leaving kennedy and before entering connelly and eventually lodging in connelly's wrist (ala the magic bullet) is laughable and insulting to anyone familiar with ballistics.


Just curious here.

Didn't the bullet have a copper jacket?

How would that compare (breakup) to a lead, rifled shotgun slug?

[JustRalph]

I didn't want to get into this mess, but since the last post poses a real question that makes perfect sense.

There is no way you can compare a shotgun slug hitting a deer with what happen in Dallas. They are two completely different scenarios, equipment wise that are in no way related to each other, ballistically speaking......is Ballistically word? I don't think so,,,,,,,but you get my meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_rifle

[bigmack]

is Ballistically word? I don't think so,,,,,,,but you get my meaning.
We have clearance, Clarence.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_23_10_16_49_27.jpg

[newtothegame]

The Warren report is a joke at best......
Now I am no conspiracy person usually. but, lets face it. The government hasnt always been the most honest on face value towards its own people.
Area 51...just ask em...it doesnt exist! Nevermind the hundreds of photos.

The "magic" bullet theory......well lets just say that its tough enough getting a slug through one corpse in a "pristine" condition much less having it shatter wrist bones as well.

Why wait some 50 years to release the reports on Kennedy? If the government was being on the up and up...whats the point of withholding that info?

And its not like no other kennedy has ever gotten into trouble before and had help in getting out of it. I sware I hate bridges and drunk damn women lol.

The government has given its people more then enough reason to doubt...just saying!

[Rookies]

science (the government) has proven nothing.

jfk, as well liked by the masses as he is portrayed, he made some powerful enemies. he didn't send the troop support he had promised to the cuban "bay of pigs". that abandoned group was routed allowing castro to take over and "nationalize" all the property and wealth of the american owned (the mob)casinos .

his dad had gone to hoffa desperately needing the teamster vote to win the ellection which he eventually got with the support of hoffa. after he gets in, he makes little brother bobby attorney general and who becomes one of their early targets ? hoffa. ". thanks for the help, allow us to return the favor".

I agree that this is the plausible theory of outraged, hard line, right wing anti-commies, either with/without Mob support to bring down JFK.
I also have doubts, given the low number of single marksmen that could accomplish the trajectory from the Book Depository.
But finally, NO other evidence has come to light to disprove the lone Oswald madman theory.
So- likely never to be further resolved.

On a personal note, both JFK & Jackie passed a few feet away from me and other school kids in an open carriage during their May, 1961 visit to Ottawa. AND, the better half attended a huge rally for him in a small N.E. Pa town during the 1960 campaign and was equally close.

[JustRalph]

We have clearance, Clarence.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_23_10_16_49_27.jpg

Roger, Roger........

I love that new feature........ didn't even think of using it on my own word :lol:

Anybody using Chrome, it's the "google dictionary lookup" extension for Chrome. Just click on a word and it pulls up the definition

Btw, anybody with an Android phone,,,,,,,in case you missed it......."Chrome to Phone" is pretty damn nice too.........

[sonnyp]

i never intended to change anyone's opinion on this but i have my own opinion and have been fascinated by the events surrounding JFK's death.

found this documentary on netflix that i remember watching on A&E when it aired originally. it's title is "The Men Who Killed Kennedy".

weather you believe what's presented or not, it's a fascinating presentation.

http://www.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=60030584&trkid=1487426&strackid=468d3141f065ea1c_4_key&strkid=475405398_9_0


if posting this violates any rules...please delete

[bigmack]

i never intended to change anyone's opinion on this but i have my own opinion and have been fascinated by the events surrounding JFK's death.
Regrettably, much of the speculation that comes from those unwilling to buy 'the lone gunman' offers little with the exception of things that don't make sense to them. Oswaldo supposedly being a bad shot, etc...

With no shortage of scrutiny there is virtually nothing 'solid' that proves any but a lone gunman.

Listeners to Georgie might beg to differ. :rolleyes:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/9022.png

[cj's dad]

Regrettably, much of the speculation that comes from those unwilling to buy 'the lone gunman' offers little with the exception of things that don't make sense to them. Oswaldo supposedly being a bad shot, etc...

With no shortage of scrutiny there is virtually nothing 'solid' that proves any but a lone gunman.

Listeners to Georgie might beg to differ. :rolleyes:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/9022.png

Thanks BM for clearing up things for those of us who may just think the the feds who YOU have often criticized for being less then truthful have enlightened the masses as to what is the real cause for JFK's death.

We all here at PA owe you so much !!!

[ElKabong]

Having known and gone to school w/ people that knew Oswald from his HS days and upon his return from Russia, he didn't have the capacity to work with anyone else on virtually anything. To think he could be a part of a conspiracy of any sort is fantasy.

The guy was a loner. No friends, no meaningful relationships. Including marriage. Couldn't finish anything he started because he wouldn't take instructions from anyone & thought he knew it all.

Fun to listen to the conspiracy theorists tho...Like they're playing a table top game....totally ignoring the human behind the killing and his quirky weird demented soul.

Go dig deep about synthetic tracks theories and shit like that. Thinking Oswald acted in concert with anyone else is laughable.

[dav4463]

The moon landing actually happened.

(I forgot to add that to my list)

As for Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone.....I meant as a "lone gunman". Obviously others could have been involved in the plot to kill JFK.

[bigmack]

Thanks BM for clearing up things for those of us who may just think the the feds who YOU have often criticized for being less then truthful have enlightened the masses as to what is the real cause for JFK's death.
Yo Daddio, I don't have a dog in the fight so I don't give a rats ass.

You mean all you have is your belief G-folk were less than(then) truthful? Ain't you got nothin' else?

[plainolebill]

In late summer of 1963 The ship I was serving on, along with our squadron and embarked USMC forces, was off the coast of South Vietnam in a show of force. Kennedy had decided to withdraw support from the Diem regime and wanted to insure American interests were protected.

From Wikipedia: Diệm pursued policies that rankled and oppressed the Republic's Montagnard natives and its Buddhist majority. Amid religious protests that garnered worldwide attention, Diệm lost the backing of his US patrons and was assassinated by Nguyễn Văn Nhung, the aide of ARVN General Dương Văn Minh on November 2, 1963, during a coup d'état that deposed his government. Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and death, Democratic Republic of Vietnam President Ho Chi Minh is reported to have said, "I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid."

I can.

We arrived home Thursday November 21st, 1963.

[Market Mover]

In late summer of 1963 The ship I was serving on, along with our squadron and embarked USMC forces, was off the coast of South Vietnam in a show of force. Kennedy had decided to withdraw support from the Diem regime and wanted to insure American interests were protected.

From Wikipedia: Diệm pursued policies that rankled and oppressed the Republic's Montagnard natives and its Buddhist majority. Amid religious protests that garnered worldwide attention, Diệm lost the backing of his US patrons and was assassinated by Nguyễn Văn Nhung, the aide of ARVN General Dương Văn Minh on November 2, 1963, during a coup d'état that deposed his government. Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and death, Democratic Republic of Vietnam President Ho Chi Minh is reported to have said, "I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid."

I can.

We arrived home Thursday November 21st, 1963.


Now you're talking.
It marked a turning point in the war effort to defeat the.Communist North.
A staunch Catholic, Diem was known by loyalist ARVN officers as a gentle but firm man who lived by principle. Although his rule was complicated by the fact that his brothers Nhu and Can and sister-in-law the big-mouthed Madame Nhu affected military police actions and subsequent Buddhist atrocities.

Diem believed the true war was between two brothers, the North vs. South, and that escalating American military presence would only complicate this civil war, not unlike the American Civil War between the Union and Confederacy.
Vietnam had struggled for generations to fight for her independence from foreign rule, from the Chinese for thousands of years, to the Japanese after WWII, to the French until 1954 at Dien Bien Phu, to the then current American position.
He had to be eliminated from the equation. There was too much invested. Yes, too much money. And Kennedy was frustrated. And so he turned the other way, for Cable 243. And what set in motion was a military coup d'etat that rocked the country and destabilized a previously unified South Vietnam. The Communist North must have been laughing as they went off to bed...
Remember that propaganda is a technique that most Communists have perfected. So when a military or political figure is ousted, of course the media fallout would have it that this individual was corrupted, or had committed crimes against humanity, etc.
Diem was a staunch Catholic. He had seminarian siblings/connections. He never married. How anyone can compare him to Hitler is beyond comprehension and ludicrous.
But someone had to pay. For the deaths of all those Vietnamese civilians...for the murders of all those Buddhists (including the self-immolation) which most saw graphically on TV....
Just as the Communists wanted. Their propaganda worked. $42,000 was exchanged by an American colonel to ARVN power-hungry generals. The subsequent scramble for power was a mess. And the resulting new regimes after coups and contre-coups after 1963 were jokesters. Diem's assassination delivered the crucial blow to weaken the democratic Southern war effort against the North in what was truly a civil war.
Even Britain was smart enough not to send their soldiers over in full force when Jefferson Davis cried out for help.
Captain Nhung was an armed hitman and murderer, and nothing more. He got the nod from General Big Minh and stabbed and shot the Ngo brothers in the back of an APC after they were turned over to Minh after seeking refuge in Cholon.

There were ARVN officers at the time, who had come over to train at the school of war in Fort Leavenworth, who knew Diem's intentions, and could only watch in horror as the strongest leader of the country was butchered at the expense of greed, corruption, and plain stupidity.
Because at the end of the day, it's always about money. Always.

[Market Mover]

In late summer of 1963 The ship I was serving on, along with our squadron and embarked USMC forces, was off the coast of South Vietnam in a show of force. Kennedy had decided to withdraw support from the Diem regime and wanted to insure American interests were protected.

From Wikipedia: Diệm pursued policies that rankled and oppressed the Republic's Montagnard natives and its Buddhist majority. Amid religious protests that garnered worldwide attention, Diệm lost the backing of his US patrons and was assassinated by Nguyễn Văn Nhung, the aide of ARVN General Dương Văn Minh on November 2, 1963, during a coup d'état that deposed his government. Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and death, Democratic Republic of Vietnam President Ho Chi Minh is reported to have said, "I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid."

I can.

We arrived home Thursday November 21st, 1963.


To some, JFK was a hero. And his assassination was a riveting tragegy. To others who realized the seriousness of the situation after the early November 1963 coup, it was payback. To say JFK was not aware of what was to happen to Diem is to be naive. One can examine the declassified documents on Cable 243 and realized he ultimately "looked the other way."
And JFK didnt survive the month.
Yes, karma is a real bitch.