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View Full Version : Pricci must go


cj
11-20-2010, 12:37 PM
See this thread (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1006830#post1006830) if you are unaware of why.

JustRalph
11-20-2010, 05:03 PM
Looks like he took the whole thing down........

cj
11-20-2010, 08:06 PM
Looks like he took the whole thing down........

Fine, he should have, but I won't be lining up to forgive him any time soon.

Saratoga_Mike
11-20-2010, 08:11 PM
Has he ever had issues in past like this?

cj
11-21-2010, 01:03 AM
Has he ever had issues in past like this?

Yes, it has been going on for a while, just not to this extent.

cj
11-22-2010, 06:20 PM
Still nothing from Pricci...or HANA.

highnote
11-23-2010, 02:16 AM
Still nothing from Pricci...or HANA.


What would you like to see them do?

ihatenyra
11-23-2010, 10:07 AM
HANA's goal is to give horse players collective powers against track management.

It is not their job to moderate fights between blowhard's in the media

andicap
11-23-2010, 11:47 AM
I spent 20 mins last night reading that thread --as usual there were good points but it went on way too long with needless mini-spats and airing of personal antagonisms -- but that's the nature of the Internet: An unfortunate reminder of why the quality of debate of rational discourse has fallen on hard times.

I do understand Pricci he wrote what he did -- although I don't condone it by any means. As a former journalist (OK, he's more like a blogger than a journalist these days.), I know how sometimes there is a temptation to use whatever forum you have to unleash your frustrations.

I did that once -- I wrote a screed against sportswriters on a high-profile media bulletin board (Romenesko for those of u in the know)and got about 100 angry responses and just one supporter -- thanks mom!

I did feel a little better afterward (Don't get me started on them again -- I'm not talking racing, I mean mainstream writers) and today stand by my opinion, but I'm not sure it was worth all the hassle. And I didn't attack anyone personally.

I think Pricci expected that getting this off his back would make him feel better. And I think he felt truly betrayed by people he considered friends raining personal attacks on him because of his zealous Zenyatta stance. (I have no opinion on the whole media back story involving the personalities involved in the column. I could care less that Lenny Shulman is angry at Andy Serling. I just know Andy dropped by the PA tent this summer at Saratoga and was charming and gracious.)

But Pricci's arguments were weak, misdirected and in many cases, inaccurate or lacking in documentation. Plus his inexcusable failure to monitor the comments were worthy of censure.

Its up to HANA to decide if Pricci's presence on the advisory board adds or detracts from the group. He has a long and honorable career as a top-flight public handicapper for Newsday and a backer of fan-related causes marred by this awful misstep. How much do u publicly flog someone for one bad mistake? (Unless there are other ill-advised columns I have missed.) So I have no opinion on the HANA matter.

The only comment I'll make about the title of this thread is: Where should Pricci go? He writes a column for a low-profile blog -- he really can't get exiled much further than he is right now. Want him to go away? It's the Helen Keller principle: If no one sees or hears John Pricci writing on the Internet, is he really there?






'

andymays
11-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Can anyone tell me what we do about all the good stuff Pricci has written over the years in support of Horseplayers?

Do we just forget about that?

He certainly should do a column explaining what happened and apologize to everyone involved. He should also upgrade the site. There is no excuse for what happened.

cj
11-23-2010, 11:56 AM
What would you like to see them do?

Remove him as an advisor. How was that not clear?

cj
11-23-2010, 11:57 AM
He certainly should do a column explaining what happened and apologize to everyone involved. He should also upgrade the site. There is no excuse for what happened.

Exactly, but he hasn't, and he won't. He actually claimed it was him that was attacked.

andymays
11-23-2010, 11:59 AM
Exactly, but he hasn't, and he won't. He actually claimed it was him that was attacked.

There is no excuse to not upgrade the site and do an article on what happened with an apology. I'll give him another week.

highnote
11-23-2010, 02:10 PM
Remove him as an advisor. How was that not clear?


That part is clear, but I was wondering if you wanted more than that -- like some kind of comment from HANA.

To be honest, I did NOT read all the comments on his blog that everyone else seems to have read. They were taken down by the time I heard about them. I did read his column on his blog and it didn't seem that bad. I don't see anything wrong with someone defending himself.

Now, maybe there was no need for him to write his column because he wasn't harmed. I don't know the whole truth. All I know is what I read here and on his blog. But I suspect there must be some truth to his column otherwise he wouldn't have written it.

So my questions now are what are the main reasons people think he should be removed?

Is it because he rightly or wrongly defended himself?

Is it because he didn't moderate the comments on his blog?

Is there some other reason I'm missing?

cj
11-23-2010, 02:51 PM
That part is clear, but I was wondering if you wanted more than that -- like some kind of comment from HANA.

To be honest, I did NOT read all the comments on his blog that everyone else seems to have read. They were taken down by the time I heard about them. I did read his column on his blog and it didn't seem that bad. I don't see anything wrong with someone defending himself.

Now, maybe there was no need for him to write his column because he wasn't harmed. I don't know the whole truth. All I know is what I read here and on his blog. But I suspect there must be some truth to his column otherwise he wouldn't have written it.

So my questions now are what are the main reasons people think he should be removed?

Is it because he rightly or wrongly defended himself?

Is it because he didn't moderate the comments on his blog?

Is there some other reason I'm missing?

My thoughts aren't because of the content of the article itself. I thought it was poor in that he took second hand information as gospel without bothering to check it out, but again, that isn't the point.

It is because of what he allowed to happen on his blog. Not only did he not moderate the comments, he allowed it to happen AGAIN the very next day. It went on for several hours both days. He has offered no apology. His only "excuse" was that his site was being attacked. His site...not me, PA, TLG, Tom, OTM Al, Grits cjs dad, Just Ralph, andymays, and I'm sure some others I'm forgetting, but him.

Now, still no word. No apology, no recant, no nothing. Is this the kind of person you want advising HANA? If it is, I want nothing to do with the group and will tell others the same. Again, it has nothing to do with the content of the article. Actions, or lack thereof, speak louder than words.

Tom
11-23-2010, 03:17 PM
John,
The comments were vulgar, racist, and obviously directed at PA members.
Pricci was not the victim, but the facilitator, albeit indirectly, by his inaction.

highnote
11-23-2010, 03:44 PM
CJ, Thanks for the explanation. I think I have a better understanding of why you're feeling the way you do.

It sounds like he was attacked because I can't imagine any of the people you mentioned actually posting those kinds of comments.

The question is, who did the attacking? What was the motivation behind the attacks? We know that there are people who post comments on blogs who will try to impersonate others. Wasn't there some person recently who used Bob Baffert's name to post on a blog? Sounds to me like someone is trying to stir up trouble by being a troll. Or maybe someone is playing hardball?

Maybe Pricci has a good reason for keeping quiet? Maybe his lawyer told him to keep quiet? Maybe there is an investigation going on?

For the record, I have no stake in this conflict. I have met in person or communicated with many of the people mentioned and I don't think any of them are bad people. It sounds to me like we don't know the full story.

Once the dust settles maybe we will know the truth.




My thoughts aren't because of the content of the article itself. I thought it was poor in that he took second hand information as gospel without bothering to check it out, but again, that isn't the point.

It is because of what he allowed to happen on his blog. Not only did he not moderate the comments, he allowed it to happen AGAIN the very next day. It went on for several hours both days. He has offered no apology. His only "excuse" was that his site was being attacked. His site...not me, PA, TLG, Tom, OTM Al, Grits cjs dad, Just Ralph, andymays, and I'm sure some others I'm forgetting, but him.

Now, still no word. No apology, no recant, no nothing. Is this the kind of person you want advising HANA? If it is, I want nothing to do with the group and will tell others the same. Again, it has nothing to do with the content of the article. Actions, or lack thereof, speak louder than words.

rwwupl
11-23-2010, 05:25 PM
CJ, Thanks for the explanation. I think I have a better understanding of why you're feeling the way you do.

It sounds like he was attacked because I can't imagine any of the people you mentioned actually posting those kinds of comments.

The question is, who did the attacking? What was the motivation behind the attacks? We know that there are people who post comments on blogs who will try to impersonate others. Wasn't there some person recently who used Bob Baffert's name to post on a blog? Sounds to me like someone is trying to stir up trouble by being a troll. Or maybe someone is playing hardball?

Maybe Pricci has a good reason for keeping quiet? Maybe his lawyer told him to keep quiet? Maybe there is an investigation going on?

For the record, I have no stake in this conflict. I have met in person or communicated with many of the people mentioned and I don't think any of them are bad people. It sounds to me like we don't know the full story.

Once the dust settles maybe we will know the truth.


A while back, I was the victim of an impostor poster at this site (HRI) and others, and due to that exchange John Pricci and his webmaster made some changes and they followed through to assist to resolve I .D. of the impostor. I will not identify him here, but he was punished in an appropriate way.

The current impostors are a different bunch, from a different area,using different methods and I believe there is a lot more known about who acted like a jackass than can be said here. John Pricci is aware of the sting that this incident has caused others . I think the problem will be taken care of.

I can not speak to the specific article that caused the controversy,(It was taken down)but this one article might have missed the mark, and the staff was slow at reacting to the trash. It was the trash comments that caused the problem...you can disagree with the article but nowhere did it require the trash to be posted. Yes, the jackasses should be screened before they post.

I understand that John Pricci and Steve Byk had some differences on a recent radio show hosted by Steve Byk.

I expect to be on with Steve Byk soon to talk on other subjects so listen in.

Knowing about John Pricci and the staff at H.R.I. expect some changes, and many more great articles that horse players will be thankful for.

I think SJ above has it right and we do not know the full story. Lets do not compound the issue by attacking without all the facts.

I have confidence that we will know more so lets hold fire on everyone here until we do.

Thanks,

Roger Way

Indulto
11-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Thanks for the update, rw, and good luck on the show. I'd be surprised if this incident fails to come up for discussion. Please give us advance notice.

cj
11-23-2010, 08:52 PM
We will see what happens. However, measures could have been taken after the first day to make sure it didn't happen again. Even if a permanent fix wasn't in place the next day, entries could have been checked before being posted, or even comments could have been disabled, until a fix was in place.

I really don't think that was too much to ask. You guys that think there is some secret investigation ongoing that will right the wrongs are crazy. It could have been avoided, easily, and the site chose not to act.

Saratoga_Mike
11-23-2010, 09:05 PM
We will see what happens. However, measures could have been taken after the first day to make sure it didn't happen again. Even if a permanent fix wasn't in place the next day, entries could have been checked before being posted, or even comments could have been disabled, until a fix was in place.

I really don't think that was too much to ask. You guys that think there is some secret investigation ongoing that will right the wrongs are crazy. It could have been avoided, easily, and the site chose not to act.

Do you think Mr. Pricci just wasn't thinking or wanted additional racist/ inapproriate postings on his blog?

cj
11-23-2010, 09:11 PM
Do you think Mr. Pricci just wasn't thinking or wanted additional racist/ inapproriate postings on his blog?

After the first day, I would have said he wasn't thinking, but after the second, I have no idea what he was thinking. Anyone with any sense would have taken some remedies to avoid it from happening again the NEXT DAY on the SAME ARTICLE.

He either didn't care, or he was incompetent. Not exactly someone I'd want advising me.

andymays
11-23-2010, 09:13 PM
After the first day, I would have said he wasn't thinking, but after the second, I have no idea what he was thinking. Anyone with any sense would have taken some remedies to avoid it from happening again the NEXT DAY on the SAME ARTICLE.

He either didn't care, or he was incompetent. Not exactly someone I'd want advising me.

They blocked the IP addresses of the offending poster(s). The next day the posters used different IP addresses. That's still no excuse because they should have screened the comments before letting them appear under the article.

JustRalph
11-23-2010, 09:14 PM
I just noticed this on the site now. How will they know it's an impostor

*** HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using anotherís name to express an opinion or comment.

HRI will not, however, edit or discourage those who, with intellectual honesty, disagree with HRI staffers or other readers. We also will not, as is done on some racing sites, edit disagreeable or negative commentary in the interests of commerce.

cj
11-23-2010, 09:15 PM
They blocked the IP addresses of the offending poster(s). The next day the posters used different IP addresses. That's still no excuse because they should have screened the comments before letting them appear under the article.

Right, and anybody with an iota of computer knowledge would know that "solution" was likely to fail.

andymays
11-23-2010, 09:16 PM
I just noticed this on the site now. How will they know it's an impostor

*** HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using anotherís name to express an opinion or comment.

HRI will not, however, edit or discourage those who, with intellectual honesty, disagree with HRI staffers or other readers. We also will not, as is done on some racing sites, edit disagreeable or negative commentary in the interests of commerce.

I think that's been up for months. There were imposters posting prior to this incident but none of them were close to being as bad as the other day.

Saratoga_Mike
11-23-2010, 09:26 PM
After the first day, I would have said he wasn't thinking, but after the second, I have no idea what he was thinking. Anyone with any sense would have taken some remedies to avoid it from happening again the NEXT DAY on the SAME ARTICLE.

He either didn't care, or he was incompetent. Not exactly someone I'd want advising me.

If he didn't care, I suspect the inflammatory posts never would have been taken down. I'd suggest a third path beyond incompetence. He's never really dealt with this type of issue in the past, certainly not on this scale. He deleted the offensive post one day, then naively thought "I've dealt with that." So he doesn't look at the blog for a full morning into the afternoon of the second day, which doesn't seem unreasonable to me. When he discovers the problem, he deletes the offensive posts and stops allowing posts without reviewing them first. To me, that's fairly reasonable.

I'd just like to see more anger directed toward the offensive poster vs. Pricci. The poster knew Pace's full name, which I certainly wasn't aware of. So it seems like it was someone Pace knows pretty well.

cj
11-23-2010, 09:29 PM
If he didn't care, I suspect the inflammatory posts never would have been taken down. I'd suggest a third path beyond incompetence. He's never really dealt with this type of issue in the past, certainly not on this scale. He deleted the offensive post one day, then naively thought "I've dealt with that." So he doesn't look at the blog for a full morning into the afternoon of the second day, which doesn't seem unreasonable to me. When he discovers the problem, he deletes the offensive posts and stops allowing posts without reviewing them first. To me, that's fairly reasonable.

I'd just like to see more anger directed toward the offensive poster vs. Pricci. The poster knew Pace's full name, which I certainly wasn't aware of. So it seems like it was someone Pace knows pretty well.

Well, I will say that while the more vulgar posts were taken down, several personal attacks were not, in fact, deleted.

I also think they were taken down because some of us demanded he take them down. He was protecting his ass. Things didn't really happen in the timeline you lay out, but whatever, it isn't that important. I'm tired of trying to defend my statements as if I was the bad guy here. Not to mention it has been going on for MONTHS.

Saratoga_Mike
11-23-2010, 09:32 PM
Well, I will say that while the more vulgar posts were taken down, several personal attacks were not, in fact, deleted.

I also think they were taken down because some of us demanded he take them down. He was protecting his ass. Things didn't really happen in the timeline you lay out, but whatever, it isn't that important. I'm tired of trying to defend my statements as if I was the bad guy here.

Please correct the timeline. No one, including myself, are making you out as the bad guy. Come on, you're usually one of the most reasonable people around here.

andymays
11-23-2010, 09:33 PM
Please correct the timeline. No one, including myself, are making you out as the bad guy. Come on, you're usually one of the most reasonable people around here.

The offending posts were up for hours. It took several emails to get their attention.

cj
11-23-2010, 09:36 PM
Please correct the timeline. No one, including myself, are making you out as the bad guy. Come on, you're usually one of the most reasonable people around here.

I'm irritated because I'm tired of those that don't know the facts, or the things that were said, defending the guy. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS. They don't care. THEY DON'T CARE. The stuff was only deleted when I threatened him with legal action, period. Even when the original posts were "cleaned", several personal attack posts were left up. I have it all saved. And still, not a word from them, or an apology, nothing. I just answered a few questions from the "webmaster", a guy that proved pretty clueless.

highnote
11-23-2010, 11:08 PM
Most of us understand you're irritated and most of us understand why. What we're also trying to understand is if Pricci had a reasonable excuse for not taking these comments down fast enough and for not issuing a response to the incident. On these two latter points we can only hypothesize.

It sounds like your complaint is not that Pricci let the comments get through as much as it is that he left them up too long and that this has been going on for MONTHS.

Do you think it's possible that it's not that "THEY DON'T CARE", but that maybe THEY are just undermanned?

Is it possible that the fact that you threatened legal action is the reason why he hasn't responded?

Is it possible he takes your threat of legal action against him seriously and has consulted with an attorney on the matter?

Is it possible that his attorney is advising him on an approriate response?

Is it possible that the webmaster is as clueless as you say and his cluelessness might be the reason these comments were left up too long?

Is it possible that Pricci did not know the inappropriate comments were left up?

I'm not expecting you to answer all these, I'm just putting out some food for thought. I have only met you once and you struck me as a person who has a lot of integrity. I have only talked to Pricci on the phone and read his blog and I know people who work with Pricci and he has always seemed like a decent person. I think I can safely say that it is disappointing for many of us to see these events unfold as they have.

I'm irritated because I'm tired of those that don't know the facts, or the things that were said, defending the guy. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS. They don't care. THEY DON'T CARE. The stuff was only deleted when I threatened him with legal action, period. Even when the original posts were "cleaned", several personal attack posts were left up. I have it all saved. And still, not a word from them, or an apology, nothing. I just answered a few questions from the "webmaster", a guy that proved pretty clueless.

cj
11-23-2010, 11:17 PM
Well, I actually didn't threaten legal action, but I guess it could be inferred. Whether he did infer this or not, I'm not the only one he heard from so I can't really answer. I'm sure legal action is possible, but it probably isn't worth pursuing unless the problem remains. Certainly, it isn't financially viable.

As to your points, obviously some I can't answer.

Do you think it's possible that it's not that "THEY DON'T CARE", but that maybe THEY are just undermanned?

No, not when it has been going on this long. For a day or two, maybe, but not for months.

Is it possible that the webmaster is as clueless as you say and his cluelessness might be the reason these comments were left up too long?

No. One day, maybe, not the second and certainly not the previous stuff. This isn't a new issue. There was plenty of time to deal with it.

Is it possible that Pricci did not know the inappropriate comments were left up?

No.

Cardus
11-24-2010, 12:50 AM
I just noticed this on the site now. How will they know it's an impostor

*** HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using anotherís name to express an opinion or comment.

HRI will not, however, edit or discourage those who, with intellectual honesty, disagree with HRI staffers or other readers. We also will not, as is done on some racing sites, edit disagreeable or negative commentary in the interests of commerce.

This is interesting.

To which sites is this directed?

Grits
11-24-2010, 10:23 AM
Every post in this thread that has defended the HRI website and what occurred there, or has defended Mr.Pricci's or his webmaster's handling of the incident, ie, the comments, the time in which they remained up, the fact it happened two days running (in other words the gentleman KNEW he had an extremely serious problem and FAILED to pay closer attention because of it, in the hours following) . . . . . .

You have no shot here, you have nothing, not a leg to stand on, nor does Pricci or his pseudo webmaster.

This is laughable that ANYONE would write one word on this when they haven't the knowledge to back any of their statements up. None of you are able to speak a word on this man's behalf. Not one.

Well, maybe Mr.Pricci . . . . . I wonder if Mr.Pricci . . . . . I've met Mr.Pricci . . . . .

GOOD LUCK with such language in a court proceeding.

andymays
11-24-2010, 10:37 AM
Every post in this thread that has defended the HRI website and what occurred there, or has defended Mr.Pricci's or his webmaster's handling of the incident, ie, the comments, the time in which they remained up, the fact it happened two days running (in other words the gentleman KNEW he had an extremely serious problem and FAILED to pay closer attention because of it, in the hours following) . . . . . .

You have no shot here, you have nothing, not a leg to stand on, nor does Pricci or his pseudo webmaster.

This is laughable that ANYONE would write one word on this when they haven't the knowledge to back any of their statements up. None of you are able to speak a word on this man's behalf. Not one.

Well, maybe Mr.Pricci . . . . . I wonder if Mr.Pricci . . . . . I've met Mr.Pricci . . . . .

GOOD LUCK with such language in a court proceeding.

There is no excuse for not handling the problem quickly. There is no excuse for letting it happen another day.

I went back and forth with the Webmaster in over 10 emails and in the end they did help try to figure out who the offending poster (s) really were. You can PM PA to verify that. That still isn't good enough and I don't blame anyone for being outraged at what happened. He should do a column apologizing for the incidents and he should put in some safegards to make sure it won't happen again.

I just choose to look at all the good stuff John has done over the last several years when it comes to writing stuff in favor of Horseplayers. I don't know of anyone who has written more than he has addressing Synthetic Surfaces and high takeout among other things.

Having said all that I probably won't be putting up any of his articles or commenting on his site again unless we see something on his site to indicate and change in procedure.

Does anyone on the HANA board intend to ask John about the incident and whether or not he will change the procedures for posting there or are we going to let this issue go unanswered?

andicap
11-24-2010, 11:52 AM
I agree that since Pricci is a member of the HANA Advisory Board the group should ask him to offer an apology for the fiasco. Not necessarily for Pricci's post itself -- he's entitled to make a fool of himself if he wishes -- but for failing to monitor the ugly responses.

Relwob Owner
11-24-2010, 01:04 PM
Every post in this thread that has defended the HRI website and what occurred there, or has defended Mr.Pricci's or his webmaster's handling of the incident, ie, the comments, the time in which they remained up, the fact it happened two days running (in other words the gentleman KNEW he had an extremely serious problem and FAILED to pay closer attention because of it, in the hours following) . . . . . .

You have no shot here, you have nothing, not a leg to stand on, nor does Pricci or his pseudo webmaster.

This is laughable that ANYONE would write one word on this when they haven't the knowledge to back any of their statements up. None of you are able to speak a word on this man's behalf. Not one.

Well, maybe Mr.Pricci . . . . . I wonder if Mr.Pricci . . . . . I've met Mr.Pricci . . . . .

GOOD LUCK with such language in a court proceeding.



I have no take on the events, other than the fact that the posters wrote some really, really disgusting things that have no place anywhere......Like you correctly mentioned, opinions shouldnt be written on it when there isnt information to back them up and I dont have such information.

However, you mention your opinion on potential court proceedings as if you have knowledge of how things would shake out. Do you have knowledge that if taken to court, things would shake out in a certain way? From your language, it appears that you do and am curious to see what information you have to back up that opinion.

Charli125
11-24-2010, 02:21 PM
Right, and anybody with an iota of computer knowledge would know that "solution" was likely to fail.

That's the problem. Pricci is a writer. He's not a computer person. Yes, someone over there should've fixed this earlier. No, it's not Pricci himself maliciously doing anything.

CJ, since you're knowledgeable in both horses and IT, I know it's hard to believe that most people are not. I know it boggles my mind that people don't think of these types of things, but that's because I'm also knowledgeable in both.

At HANA we decided not to have open commenting to avoid just this type of situation. That's probably something they should do over at HRI, but to suggest that this is anything more than ignorance in the ways of the internet doesn't make sense.

Fortunately Mr. Pricci isn't advising HANA on how to run and moderate a website...otherwise, we'd be in trouble.

Charli125
11-24-2010, 02:31 PM
Does anyone on the HANA board intend to ask John about the incident and whether or not he will change the procedures for posting there or are we going to let this issue go unanswered?

We will of course suggest that he make changes as they're just good standard business practices. At the end of the day though, the fact that the people running HRI from a technical perspective have made some serious errors in no way detracts from the writing that Mr. Pricci does.

On any article, blog, messageboard, etc., that allows anonymous posting, you're going to have these types of issues. Especially when there is someone out there making a concerted effort to either make some PA posters look bad, or to make HRI look bad.

It's unfortunate, and easy to fix, but it's nothing that doesn't happen a hundred times over every day on the internet. Maybe not in our community(especially here at PA where there is a rigorous sign-up process to avoid just this type of thing), but try reading the comments on a youtube video, or on one of the aolsportsblog posts.

To CJ, I'm sorry that you were disparaged in the comments of Pricci's post, and I wish it hadn't happened. It was unacceptable and hopefully HRI will make the necessary changes. I just ask that you not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and that you separate Pricci from the tech people running the site.

Grits
11-24-2010, 02:48 PM
However, you mention your opinion on potential court proceedings as if you have knowledge of how things would shake out. Do you have knowledge that if taken to court, things would shake out in a certain way? From your language, it appears that you do and am curious to see what information you have to back up that opinion.

My comment states: a court proceeding. It does not state this.

You may be a prosecutor, you may be a judge, you may be a defense attorney, I don't know, nor does it matter to me at all. Its not important. And I won't debate you, so, out of the dozens of posts on the topic in this, and in another thread, please, don't single me out again. Thanks.

highnote
11-24-2010, 03:22 PM
This is laughable that ANYONE would write one word on this when they haven't the knowledge to back any of their statements up.

Just curious... How do you know that none of the posters do not have the knowledge to back their statements up? Maybe some of the posters have actually talked to Mr. Pricci? Do you know for a fact that none of them have?

None of you are able to speak a word on this man's behalf. Not one.

Why not? You're speaking on his behalf as if you know his side of the story.

Do you know his side?

andymays
11-24-2010, 03:24 PM
We will of course suggest that he make changes as they're just good standard business practices. At the end of the day though, the fact that the people running HRI from a technical perspective have made some serious errors in no way detracts from the writing that Mr. Pricci does.

On any article, blog, messageboard, etc., that allows anonymous posting, you're going to have these types of issues. Especially when there is someone out there making a concerted effort to either make some PA posters look bad, or to make HRI look bad.

It's unfortunate, and easy to fix, but it's nothing that doesn't happen a hundred times over every day on the internet. Maybe not in our community(especially here at PA where there is a rigorous sign-up process to avoid just this type of thing), but try reading the comments on a youtube video, or on one of the aolsportsblog posts.

To CJ, I'm sorry that you were disparaged in the comments of Pricci's post, and I wish it hadn't happened. It was unacceptable and hopefully HRI will make the necessary changes. I just ask that you not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and that you separate Pricci from the tech people running the site.


Thanks for commenting Charli125. I hope Pricci does the right thing here. He has probably lost quite a few readers over this.

Relwob Owner
11-24-2010, 03:38 PM
My comment states: a court proceeding. It does not state this.

You may be a prosecutor, you may be a judge, you may be a defense attorney, I don't know, nor does it matter to me at all. Its not important. And I won't debate you, so, out of the dozens of posts on the topic in this, and in another thread, please, don't single me out again. Thanks.


Got it...now, I understand-makes sense....

As far as singling no out, I have no clue what you are talking about. This is a forum and I responded to your post, thats all.

bigmack
11-24-2010, 03:44 PM
There's no shortage of legal precedence that have clearly ruled no liability on the part of an owner of a website for comments, policed or not.

DeanT
11-24-2010, 03:46 PM
I am the first to admit I know nothing about this. I saw that thread getting longer and longer but have not read it (I have Zenyatta, Blame etc fatigue so I have not read much here), and I have been really busy. Regardless, from what I do read here, it sure sounds like a wild dust up.

I emailed John not to ask him what happened (I simply can not catch up with everything on what happened in this case - it reads like a novel), but to ask if he was doing something on the blog about it, based on questions on the thread here. He emailed back a minute ago that he was, and he would hopefully have something up on the blog tomorrow.

I think he has been getting a ton of email (understandably from what I read here) so I (like everyone) will see what he has to say.

As for my personal feelings all I can say is a like both CJ and John. Both have been nice to me personally and have helped HANA - CJ on his site and here, John via conferences, on his site and more. I am going to see what John has to say on his blog tomorrow with interest. I truly hope this is settled to everyone's satisfaction.

That is just my personal opinion on an issue I feel in the dark on, with a couple people I think have been good for horseplayers, who I also count as my friends; internet or otherwise.

Dean

Relwob Owner
11-24-2010, 03:53 PM
There's no shortage of legal precedence that have clearly ruled no liability on the part of an owner of a website for comments, policed or not.



That is my understanding as well.........one way to look at this situation is that it clearly shows the superiority of this site and how it is run. I have no idea if this sort of thing has happened on here but with the people involved, I feel quite certain it would be taken care of immediately. Another thing is that it provides context to anyone who has ever had their post taken down in terms of why it happens and what awful things can transpire if correct monitoring systems are not in place.

andymays
11-24-2010, 03:56 PM
I emailed John not to ask him what happened (I simply can not catch up with everything on what happened in this case - it reads like a novel), but to ask if he was doing something on the blog about it, based on questions on the thread here. He emailed back a minute ago that he was, and he would hopefully have something up on the blog tomorrow.



I hope he gets it right. Thanks for the update.

highnote
11-24-2010, 05:08 PM
I think the important thing is not to try this issue in the court of public opinion until all sides are heard.

cj
11-24-2010, 05:39 PM
There's no shortage of legal precedence that have clearly ruled no liability on the part of an owner of a website for comments, policed or not.

Just to be clear, I have no interest, and never did, in pursuing this legally. I just wanted the stuff down and the site fixed. I didn't even really care what was said because it was obviously ridiculous.

That said, times are changing, and the above quote is not really true any longer either.

andymays
11-24-2010, 06:14 PM
Pricci Apology

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/

Horseplayersbet.com
11-24-2010, 06:26 PM
This kind of stuff happens all the time. Personally, I feel frustrated a bit when comments aren't allowed real time. Imagine if this forum had comments moderated?
Even with moderators here, sometimes it takes hours for offensive posts to be dealt with, and it is understandable.

Having a blog myself, I allow non moderated comments, but only for the day of a fresh post, because it is a target of spam.

If I do see an offensive comment on the same day I make a new post, I get rid of it, but it could take hours before I see it on some occasions.

I really don't blame Pricci here at all. And now at least temporarily nobody can comment on his site. And that sucks big time.

As far as personal attacks on that particular story, only PA members would get what is happening, and also understand that there was major trolling going on.

I think this got blown way out of proportion, but I also understand that the people who got smeared have a right to be angry. But the internet is full of nuts and the only people who are free from attacks like this, now or in the future, are those who keep their identity completely hidden.

andymays
11-24-2010, 06:28 PM
This kind of stuff happens all the time. Personally, I feel frustrated a bit when comments aren't allowed real time. Imagine if this forum had comments moderated?
Even with moderators here, sometimes it takes hours for offensive posts to be dealt with, and it is understandable.

Having a blog myself, I allow non moderated comments, but only for the day of a fresh post, because it is a target of spam.

If I do see an offensive comment on the same day I make a new post, I get rid of it, but it could take hours before I see it on some occasions.

I really don't blame Pricci here at all. And now at least temporarily nobody can comment on his site. And that sucks big time.

As far as personal attacks on that particular story, only PA members would get what is happening, and also understand that there was major trolling going on.

I think this got blown way out of proportion, but I also understand that the people who got smeared have a right to be angry. But the internet is full of nuts and the only people who are free from attacks like this, now or in the future, are those who keep their identity completely hidden.

You must not have seen some of the comments. They were as bad as it gets.

bigmack
11-24-2010, 06:28 PM
That said, times are changing, and the above quote is not really true any longer either.
I see in the UK, liability has been deemed but in this country there have been some big decisions siding otherwise.

While we're just kickin' this around academically, in this case, masquerading as the screen name of someone would be a tough sell for liability.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_24_10_14_22_17.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2010/05/cda-protects-newspapers-from-liability-for-libelous-comments132.html

Horseplayersbet.com
11-24-2010, 06:36 PM
You must not have seen some of the comments. They were as bad as it gets.
You are right. They were so juvenile that I zipped through them faster than when I used to handicap four horse fields at Hollywood.

andymays
11-24-2010, 06:37 PM
You are right. They were so juvenile that I zipped through them faster than when I used to handicap four horse fields at Hollywood.

I don't think "juvenile" describes them. You must not have seen the real bad ones.

highnote
11-24-2010, 06:51 PM
Pricci Apology

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/


An announcement was posted over a half an hour ago that Pricci had issued an apolopgy and a few other comments had been posted after this announcement, yet NOT ONE SINGLE COMMENT about the Pricci issue!

andymays
11-24-2010, 06:52 PM
An announcement was posted over a half an hour ago that Pricci had issued an apolopgy and a few other comments had been posted after this announcement, yet NOT ONE SINGLE COMMENT about the Pricci issue!

What do you mean to say? I'm not getting it.

highnote
11-24-2010, 06:55 PM
What do you mean to say? I'm not getting it.


That's not what I mean at all. I just thought it was ironic that so many people were calling for an apology. Then when he finally issues an apology no one comments on it. I was NOT pointing my post at you, I was pointing it at everyone.

I was also quoting your post so that people would see the link to his apology because after you posted the link, several people posted comments that had nothing to do with Pricci's apology and I thought that the link you posted was going to get buried and readers might not see it.

So to keep it from getting buried, here it is again:

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/

PaceAdvantage
11-24-2010, 06:56 PM
That's not what I mean at all. I just thought it was ironic that so many people were calling for an apology. Then when he finally issues an apology no one comments on it. I was NOT pointing my post at you, I was pointing it at everyone.

I was also quoting your post so that people would see the link to his apology because after you posted the link, several people posted comments that had nothing to do with Pricci's apology and I thought that the link you posted was going to get buried and readers might not see it.Comments are not allowed at the moment...they are still figuring out a way to prevent what happened from happening again....

Charli125
11-24-2010, 06:57 PM
John,

The reason there aren't any comments is that he disabled commenting until they can get things updated to avoid a repeat.

andymays
11-24-2010, 06:57 PM
That's not what I mean at all. I just thought it was ironic that so many people were calling for an apology. Then when he finally issues an apology no one comments on it. I was NOT pointing my post at you, I was pointing it at everyone.

I was also quoting your post so that people would see the link to his apology because after you posted the link, several people posted comments that had nothing to do with Pricci's apology and I thought that the link you posted was going to get buried and readers might not see it.

I didn't think you were directing the comments at me. I just didn't get it and now I do. :ThmbUp:

Everyone is worn out on this issue. I know I am.

highnote
11-24-2010, 06:59 PM
Comments are not allowed at the moment...they are still figuring out a way to prevent what happened from happening again....


I meant that no one was commenting here on PA about Pricci's apology.

Sorry for the confusion.

andymays
11-24-2010, 07:01 PM
I meant that no one was commenting here on PA about Pricci's apology.

Sorry for the confusion.

That's what I originally thought you meant. Like I said I think everyone is worn out.

Too bad we can't find out who the imposter(s) were.

cj
11-24-2010, 07:15 PM
I meant that no one was commenting here on PA about Pricci's apology.

Sorry for the confusion.

It was commented on. Andymays posted it in three different places.

highnote
11-24-2010, 07:18 PM
It was commented on. Andymays posted it in three different places.


Thanks for pointing it out. It's hard enough to keep up with this thread let alone 2 others -- plus off-topic!

That's what makes PA so good. There is plenty of good stuff to keep us engaged!

Charli125
11-24-2010, 07:37 PM
I meant that no one was commenting here on PA about Pricci's apology.

Sorry for the confusion.

Duh, my fault. That's what happens when i leave the office early...I stop thinking!

Indulto
11-24-2010, 10:45 PM
This kind of stuff happens all the time. Personally, I feel frustrated a bit when comments aren't allowed real time. Imagine if this forum had comments moderated?
Even with moderators here, sometimes it takes hours for offensive posts to be dealt with, and it is understandable.

Having a blog myself, I allow non moderated comments, but only for the day of a fresh post, because it is a target of spam.

If I do see an offensive comment on the same day I make a new post, I get rid of it, but it could take hours before I see it on some occasions.

I really don't blame Pricci here at all. And now at least temporarily nobody can comment on his site. And that sucks big time.

As far as personal attacks on that particular story, only PA members would get what is happening, and also understand that there was major trolling going on.

I think this got blown way out of proportion, but I also understand that the people who got smeared have a right to be angry. But the internet is full of nuts and the only people who are free from attacks like this, now or in the future, are those who keep their identity completely hidden.Your candor is refreshing (at least in this case ;)). As you point out, there are tradeoffs.

The only sites I remember commenting at that were moderated prior to publishing (MPP) were the HANA Blog and Paul Moran's now inactive blog. A subset of his pieces were also published at HRl for a while. Apparently, he didn't alway publish negative comments directed at himself, but the ones at HRI weren't taken down, even though some were pretty raw. Since he only checked for comments a few times a day, there was little opportunity for interaction and so any passion in reader exchanges tended to become diluted over time. It also discouraged extended commenting by some readers since there was no guarantee they would be published.

PA is an exemplary model for interactive message boards. I assume there is a financial cost as well as time investment required to accomplish that, considering the size of the membership and the number of simultaneous current threads. The blog is a different animal. Only a few threads at most are readily accessible for viewing, and a contribution to an old thread is often viewed only by previous contributors to that thread; and only if they are notified.

With or without anonymity, people can and will be insulted or defamed if they want to be. If the same imposter(s) had left out the explicit filth and employed some subtlety, how would a moderator not familiar with PA personalities recognize defamatory remarks? Is it only a matter of time before the threat of lawsuits makes it impossible for recreational bloggers to colonize cyberspace?

GameTheory
11-25-2010, 12:43 AM
Did he at least have an anti-commentspam something or other? Most sites without any filters are overrun with random spam in their comments. Hard to believe a site that gets any traffic at all wouldn't have any counter-measures whatsoever...

Saratoga_Mike
11-25-2010, 09:50 AM
Did he at least have an anti-commentspam something or other? Most sites without any filters are overrun with random spam in their comments. Hard to believe a site that gets any traffic at all wouldn't have any counter-measures whatsoever...

The posts weren't spam-related.

GameTheory
11-25-2010, 10:42 AM
The posts weren't spam-related.Yeah, I understand that, but at most sites without at least a spamblocker there aren't any comments other than spam because the spam takes over. Meaning it usually doesn't take something like this to get people to moderate the comments (automatically or otherwise) on their website. If you have no moderation whatsoever, you are flooded with spam. Many bloggers etc I think never actually LOOK at their own sites -- they use the publishing tools to write stuff and then post it, but never actually check to see how it looks to the public. Many sites obviously have no clue they've even got comments turned on or they'd notice the hundreds of spam comments on all their pages...

rwwupl
11-25-2010, 11:58 AM
I do not think this has been posted yet...

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/John-Pricci/11242010-heartfelt-wishes-and-thanksgiving-dreams/

We have a civility advisory on HRI that goes virtually unnoticed and unheeded much of the time, especially when the subject matter is emotionally charged. I can be as guilty as the next poster on that score, but at times I feel as if Iíve run out of cheeks to turn.

This website, and some innocent third parties, have come under attack from a group that has axes to grind, hoping to find meaning in their lives, I suppose.

Other posters of this ilk have been responsible for the suspension of the Del Mar chat room several years ago, and have spread vitriol at other sites in addition to this one.

One of my recent columns started a firestorm of animus. It was taken down, edited, and re-posted. Within a few hours, however, the vile posts began anew. Ultimately, the column was taken down permanently and all offending IP addresses have been noted and blockedd.