Ridersup Pik4 Contest.

[Suff]

Last year we had a PIK 4 contest. I want to do it again this year.

But with some changes.


It's the Aqueduct race course winter meet. We play only Sat and Sun. A fixed $$ amount and fictional pik4 plays are made for every Sat and sun card through the meet. We tabulate Total $$ won on pik4's, total pik4's hit, Total race winners (meaning if you hit 3 of 4 we credited your WIN ticket prices to a different Total)


That way we recognized Players that hit a lot of races but the PIK4 might have eluded. We'll probably change or eliminate that this year.

I'm volunteering as the scorekeeper.

CJ did it last year, but with his impending move to Belgium that may be to much to ask this year. I really would prefer to just play. so if someone else would like to administer and score the contest.. by all means.. Mention it.


But for now... People that played last year. What should we do differently in this years?



btw.. Riders up was a member here at PA, and was playing in Last years contest when he fell ill and Passed away. We decided to name the contest in his Honor. He was a great Guy. He was from down Texas way and I believe was friendly with or knew Purple Power, and BillW, and Boris and GR1. Without a doubt we'll continue with the Name in his Honor

[WINMANWIN]

Sounds great. I Enjoyed the pick 4 contest last year. Looking forward to this 1 also. :) My only suggestion, Let's increase the pick 4 Mony, so we can WAGER more.

[cj]

My suggestions from experiences from last year...$200 bankroll per Pick 4. Gives guys more options to try to hit it once, or if they think it will be chalky, hit it more times. Maybe a little less, but what I found was $50 just isn't enough to really give it your best shot. There wasn't a lot of variety in bet structures with the $50 among the players, $200 would change that.

[Zaf]

If you choose 4 runners in a leg and one of them wins, Do you get credit for selecting the winner in the Win Bet portion of the contest ?

ZAFONIC

[Boris]

Riders Up, Phil I think, was actually from the Tampa area. He was going to be my new bestest track buddy when I got here, but died shortly before I arrived. Was really looking forward to watching horseys with him.

[keilan]

If this is a p4 contest then score it as a p4 contest, but to award Win ticket prices creates an entirely different objective in my opinion. i.e.: (two different contests). But that's fine too.

For example in the last contest with a $50.00 limit I might construct 10 different P4 tickets to optimize my chances of hitting a large P4 ticket. My largest ticket playing by last years rules may only cost $16 dollars or less but if the "high priced winner" is not included on this $16 ticket then I'm not awarded the Win ticket price even though I may have used the "high priced winner" on some or all other 9 tickets. This happened repeatedly to me in last contest and many were $20-$30 horses.

Here's the dilemma that faces contest players, either structure tickets to be competitive in both the p4 and Win ticket category or else relinquish any hope of scoring high in the Win ticket portion of the contest.

This type of scoring reminds me of the Canadian Football League (CFL) were the team attempting a field-goal can be awarded a point if they miss the field-goal.

I can fully appreciate that in the last contest we were only using a $50 maximum to construct our wagers and p4's were few and far between so the awarding for Win tickets gave something back to the participants who grinded it out week after week.

But if the format is going to change to somewhere in the $200 dollar range to construct our P4 wagers then the Win ticket scoring may have outlived it's usefulness.

I personally think $200 may be a bit generous but a cut off point of $160--$180 would certainly make for a great contest IMO.

Now the contest would truly become a P4 contest and secondly what a relief to the person who is responsible for the scoring.

[Suff]

yes please... I'd be glad if people started using this thread to state opinions or give suggestions... or... that your playing.

These are all my opinions.. Not the rules, final rules , whatever. I think we'll go one week accepting feedback then put it together.

I think 200 is too much. I'm thinking more like $100.00


win ticket prices.... Thats probably elminated.


If You played last year and have a suggestion.,by all means make it

if you did'nt play last year.. and just have an idea, by all means, propose it.

We'll get a consenus.. write up the rules, Get PA to gives us the forum and we'll be off easy enough for aqueduct opening weekend...

[Suff]

How about if we gave everyone 1 main ticket?

a 3 x 3 x 3 x 3.

Just thinking out loud.

[BillW]

Suff,

I'll be there.

PA -> how about putting up last years forum to refresh us on how it went. Re-reading the rule making process etc. may trigger some ideas.

Bill

[cj]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
How about if we gave everyone 1 main ticket?

a 3 x 3 x 3 x 3.

Just thinking out loud.

This would make it easier, but many races people don't want to go 3 deep. In retrospect, I agree $200 is a bit much, maybe $100 or $150.

[Pace Cap'n]

Just a thought:

Max bet: $150 Max tickets: 4

This would allow for ticket structures such as:

3 x 3 x 3 x 3 = 81
1 x 3 x 3 x 3 = 27
1 x 2 x 3 x 3 = 18
1 x 2 x 3 x 4 = 24 total = 150

or:

3 x 3 x 4 x 4 = 144
1 x 1 x 2 x 3 = 6


Max of 4 tickets to keep scoring somewhere in the realm of possility.

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

I THINK $200.00 IS TOO MUCH MONEY . I SAY FROM $100.00

TO $150.00

JIMMY /ILS

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, last year's forum is up, but locked as of now....

I was going to just delete all the old messages when the new contest starts...do you guys want the old messages to remain?

[hurrikane]

I play a lot of P4s. Ticket usually run 76-110 per play

150 sounds high
I've never played for 50..that was a little silly.

I'm up for it.

[Suff]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
This would make it easier, but many races people don't want to go 3 deep. In retrospect, I agree $200 is a bit much, maybe $100 or $150.

What if we gave people 15 Horses? Use them in anway you want. 20?

So I could go.... 3,4/1,6/all/4,5,6, if the "all " leg was an 8 horse field.. Theres my 15 Horses.

Still thinking out loud.

[Suff]

anyone still have that "wager.exe" File I had last year? Its on my old HP and can't find it on the net anywhere?


More ideas? anyone?

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
anyone still have that "wager.exe" File I had last year? Its on my old HP and can't find it on the net anywhere?


More ideas? anyone?


It's on the way !!!! ;)

[Suff]

We are going to do this.. Aqd meets starts Oct 29th. i'll accept feedback for two weeks... write the rules and do some Kind of sign up around the middle of October. Last year we had about 25 play. We should be able to get that many or more this year.

I'm toying with the idea of Prizes...

Right now I'm leaning towards something simple..

$108.00

No more than 5 tickets

Was thinking about a POINT system to identify players that sniff out winners

something like 10 points if you single a horse in a leg and he wins

5 points if you use 2 horses and one wins

3 point if you use 3 horses and one wins

No points for legs where you use 4 or more horses...

So we'd have two scores.. total $ an total Points to identify guys that are putting LIVE horses on tickets as singles or stickouts.

Still thinking out loud.


BUt ..we are going ot do this,,, so if anyone is looking to play in a Fun contest to kill sometime and enjoy themselves,,, Plan on playing. Many players said they learned alot about Pik4's and ticket structure ideas from last years contest,

[cj]

Are we doing the whole Aqueduct meet this year, or just the inner dirt again?

[mudcat]

I like the idea of 15 horses used any way, with the ones used single over 5-1 to count separate.

[Suff]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Are we doing the whole Aqueduct meet this year, or just the inner dirt again?

oops.. yea we did do Just Inner last year huh? And maybe thats why its called the Inner Challenge huh? lol. me so stupid. Guess we'll wait for the inner meet to start..never mind.

But we should get something going..anything. A lil WP weekend thing to hold us over.

[BillW]

Just bumping it to the top ... we're getting close.

Bill

[formula_2002]

Suff, I'm

Joe M

[ceejay]

I'll probably play this one too.

[Hammerhead]

Can I get in?
:confused:

[mudcat]

I'm in ,been waitin on it.

[pjd888]

I'd like in if space is available.
thanks

[shanta]

you listed a 3x3x3x3 play in a post. that is 81 combos. that seems like a fair number without going crazy.if you love a single in 1 leg and 2 runners in a 2nd you can then go 5x8 in the last 2 for a total of 80 combos. i did not play last year so i dont know if you can play $1 tickets. 150 or 200 combos seems real high(but then again i never play it). also i would keep the contest to what the name says"pik-4". would help to make things much easier for the scorekeeper too.maybe you could list each week the 3 players who had the biggest win prices in races where they only used 1 or at most 2 choices. that would really point out the players who had the "strongest" opinion on the "bombers".

happy"gobble gobble" day to everyone!!! richie :)

[Suff]

Even though I am working LIGHTS OUT! and I am going away twice in Jan and once and FEbruray.. I WILL RUN THIS DAMN CONTEST!!

Because You guys are great...and so many people want to play. And we had a great time last year.. we JUST HAVE TO make it an anuual thing. To good to let it go.

I was half hoping somone would step up...( Like the guy that owsn the place) But the yankees had to win the world series for that to happen. so I'll do it....

Read the way we played last year... suggest something. By this time next week I'll post the rules , dates and etc...

[keilan]

Hey Shanta -- Your a good handicapper right.

Would you do me a favor, this weekend post four p4 tickets at any tracks you play using $81 combinations for each play. It is only $324.00, so if you hit one ticket you could re-coup your investment quite easily plus more.

But in the true spirit of the exercise please use real money.

Look forward to see how much you cash!!

[Suff]

I'll toss 81 Balloons at a Pik4 ticket... 324 to rich for my blood today...

9/10/13-9/10/11-2/3/6-1/5/10.

Can you read that? I can't. Thats VS's way or the correct way to post a 3x3?

9,10,13/9,10,11/2,3,6/1,5,10

[shanta]

like i said in my post i never play a pik-4. tough enough for me to get 1 at a time! i did not mean to come across as meaning the bet was fairly easy to hit. i am sure that people who do play it regularly do put a lot of combos together. suffs 3x3x3x3 looked kind of right. anyway i will move on. rich

[keilan]

Shanta -- I didn't mean it the way you took it, It's a long contest and players can get frustrated when they're not permitted to bet sufficient amounts to cash a ticket. For me $120.00 is a fair amount for the contest - just my opinion.

I have played this bet for a very long time -- 20yrs or more, and I generally will never wager less than $100 on a $1 ticket. But I also don't play the bet unless I feel I have an edge over the public in at least 2 legs. For me the wager is about getting paid when I'm right.

Happy Thanksgiving to you

[shanta]

YES! I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT BET SIZE. YOU DO NEED TO COVER YOURSELF IN RACES YOU THINK MIGHT BE WIDE OPEN. AND THIS CONTEST IS FOR FUN!! JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I REALLY NEVER PLAY THE BET. DO YOU WAIT TO PLAY IT WHEN LIKE YOU SAID YOU HAVE A STRONG OPINION IN SAY 1 OR 2 RACES??AND THEN SPREAD IN THE OTHERS? THANX RICH

[keilan]

Shanta -- if I believe I have an edge the next step is to set an odds line for each contender then go through an exclusion process to eliminate tickets which would pay minimally example: fav - 2nd fav- 4th fav - fav, this is not the ticket I want to cash so I refuse to pay the $1 to purchase that ticket. Exclusion permits me to use the amount I wish to wager on the ticket without including tickets I really don't wish to purchase.

If I believe my edge is only in one of the legs then I simply attack that race only.

Make sense?

[shanta]

YES. MAKES A LOT OF SENSE WHEN MULTIPLE RACES ARE INVOLVED.THANX FOR THE FEEDBACK. AND A HAPPY THANXGIVING TO YOU AND YOURS TOO!!!!! RICH