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sparky
09-08-2001, 01:59 PM
I am thinking of putting in the hefty $500 fee for Cynthia Publishing's Easy Capper software. Has anyone used it? Thanks very much!

Sparky

Bob Harris
09-08-2001, 10:59 PM
Sparky,

I haven't tried any of Mitchell's programs since 1985 but if you like his stuff you might want to look at the 199.00 offer they have on All-in-One at www.betovernet.com

I don't know if there is a lot of small print involved in the offer...at a quick glance it seemed like a nice deal...I think the sticker price is usually 999.00

Good luck!

Bob

09-09-2001, 02:46 PM
Hi Bob,
Thanks for referring me to the All in One software deal at betover.net. That is a terrific savings! I will check it out immediately.

I hope that the reason you haven't used Dick Mitchell's software since 1985 isn't that it isn't any good. I did download BRIS's All-Ways software but am deterred by the $14 download fee for data. As you can tell, I'm a newcomer to software; I hope to be ready for the season at Golden Gate Fields this November.

Regards,
sparky

Milfredo
09-09-2001, 05:10 PM
Sparky,

I too am a Bay Area boy. Haven't been doing much at Bay and Golden, mostly because of small fields and R. Baze and Hollendorfer effect.
I write some of my own software, and have looked at quite a few others:
HTR good but don't like the dos format.

Allways found myself backfitting alot of data and not being able to afford the download.

Stk nice idea, but I can do better with my program

Sartin's..products...last one I know of(The Validator), did not do well with. Alot of winners not in his top 4.

The people that appear to be in the know, are moving to databases and looking for angles or stats and their effects that the general public can't see, or looking to D. Schwartz's program (HSH), that seems to be on the cutting edge of handicapping. (what a run on sentence) Anyway, you might look into these two paths.


I have found over the years, that by the time info gets into book form, such as Mitchel's, the freshness of the process is lost....

Just my input.....By the way, I do not have any financial interest in HSH nor do I even have the program. I am not selling any software either.

Good Luck.

Milford

Richard
09-09-2001, 06:41 PM
Sparky,
I've had nothing but honorable dealings with Cynthia Publishing.I had an old copy of THE BETTING ANALYST(prepares financial progress on your wagering)I purchased back in the mid 80's and was not Y2K compliant.I informed them of this and even offered to purchase a new copy.They just sent me a new copy free of charge. Also sent me copies of 4IN1 and 5IN1 that I originally purchased back in the 80's(They obviously keep their records a long time.)A lot of horseracing vendors would do well to pattern themselves after Cynthia Publishing.

Bob Harris
09-10-2001, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by sparky
Hi Bob,
Thanks for referring me to the All in One software deal at betover.net. That is a terrific savings! I will check it out immediately.

I hope that the reason you haven't used Dick Mitchell's software since 1985 isn't that it isn't any good. I did download BRIS's All-Ways software but am deterred by the $14 download fee for data. As you can tell, I'm a newcomer to software; I hope to be ready for the season at Golden Gate Fields this November.

Regards,
sparky


Sparky,

Handicapping programs are kind've like cars...there are a lot of nice ones out there but certain ones will fit your personality more than others. The most important thing to keep in mind is that a good software program will speed up the handicapping process but will never be able to replace it.

My own preference is to use very simple early and late pace ratings and blend them in with form cycle analysis...not very fancy but surprisingly effective.

In November of 1990, I attended the very first "Masters Class" in Las Vegas...taught by Dick Schmidt and Michael Pizzolla who were still involved with the Sartin group at the time. Everyone came with their favorite Sartin program...Energy! was the current rage as I remember...but soon discarded them when we watched Dick and Michael make hundreds of dollars (they were both well into 4 figures by the end of the week) with very crude TPR ratings. I was stunned!! I had become convinced that only some fancy formula in some fancy program could beat the races!

The truth of the matter is that just about all of these programs will give you pretty much the same contenders...just in slightly different order at times. I really don't care if a particular contender is my first choice or my third choice...if he's 10-1 I'm betting him...if he's 3-1 he wouldn't be a bet even as my top choice.

Anyway, thus ends my advice column on handicapping software. I hope you find the program that's perfect for you!

Bob

andicap
09-10-2001, 09:20 AM
Jeez Bob, you couldn't have summed up my handicapping philosophy better than if you were looking over my printouts.
I had my first winning year in 1992 using PA's original software whose pace figures were pretty rough estimates in my mind. If I had avoided turf races my ROI would have been about 20%.
I'm convinced this is the road to go. Using Beyer and crude pace figures, I isolate 3-4 contenders and put a very rough estimate of their chances to win on them that depends on the contentious of the race.
If I have 4 contenders and I'm convinced the others are crap I'll give them 95% of the odds and make them all about 4-1 or 9-2 or so. Then I'll make adjustments based on my estimates and figures which ones have a better chance. So a horse that's barely a contender might get 6-1 in my mind which means I want about 10 or 12-1 before I bet him.
But I recognize my odds line is an incredibly rough guess. No one can really say whether a horse should be 5-1 or 4-1. That's the most ridiculous part of all these "experts" who say you need to construct an odds line. It doesn't matter. You don't have to be precise at all.
If a horse that's a solid contender in my mind goes off a 8-1, I don't need a accurate odds line to tell me it's a bet.
Of course there are gray areas. What if my solid contender is 5-1?
Well, those tough calls are what seperates profitable handicappers from losing ones. That and discarding false overlays (which we've talked about here -- Michael's theories). I've passed many a horse that went on to win, but I'm sure a lot have lost too.
Keeping records of course will tell you if you're passing too many 5-1 horses.

09-10-2001, 12:58 PM
Hi Milford, Richard, Bob, and Andicap,
I hope this message gets to all of you. I am new to this kind of bulletin board as well as to handicapping software. Anyway, I am happy to have received so many responses and have printed out all your words of advice. I'm not a Bay Area "boy," I'm a girl. I will check out the sources you advise while I prepare for Golden Gate Fields. I've been using Dick Mitchell's adjusted turn times but am ready to tackle the databases you suggest.

Regards,
Sparky

Bob Harris
09-10-2001, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by andicap
Jeez Bob, you couldn't have summed up my handicapping philosophy better than if you were looking over my printouts.
I had my first winning year in 1992 using PA's original software whose pace figures were pretty rough estimates in my mind. If I had avoided turf races my ROI would have been about 20%.
I'm convinced this is the road to go. Using Beyer and crude pace figures, I isolate 3-4 contenders and put a very rough estimate of their chances to win on them that depends on the contentious of the race.
If I have 4 contenders and I'm convinced the others are crap I'll give them 95% of the odds and make them all about 4-1 or 9-2 or so. Then I'll make adjustments based on my estimates and figures which ones have a better chance. So a horse that's barely a contender might get 6-1 in my mind which means I want about 10 or 12-1 before I bet him.
But I recognize my odds line is an incredibly rough guess. No one can really say whether a horse should be 5-1 or 4-1. That's the most ridiculous part of all these "experts" who say you need to construct an odds line. It doesn't matter. You don't have to be precise at all.
If a horse that's a solid contender in my mind goes off a 8-1, I don't need a accurate odds line to tell me it's a bet.
Of course there are gray areas. What if my solid contender is 5-1?
Well, those tough calls are what seperates profitable handicappers from losing ones. That and discarding false overlays (which we've talked about here -- Michael's theories). I've passed many a horse that went on to win, but I'm sure a lot have lost too.
Keeping records of course will tell you if you're passing too many 5-1 horses.








Andicap,

I agree...making an oddsline and saying horse A has a 33% chance and horse B has a 20% chance is silly...it's an attempt to assign gaming absolutes to flesh and blood creatures. This in no way, as you mentioned, negates the importance of getting an acceptable return relative to the risk involved.

The biggest problem that people have with handicapping software is that the programs tend to make certain horses look alike on the betting oddsline.
For example, 2 horses who are given identical pace ratings will both show up as having the same chance in the race. The truth of the matter however, is that one horse may have been given his last paceline... a race run 10 days ago...and the other horse was given a rating from 2 races before he went into the barn for 45 days.

The second horse is a riskier proposition and therefore the handicapper should insist on an acceptable price which reflects the greater risk. It's a "touchy-feely" thing which certainly gets easier the more one does it.

Anyway, as usual I like the way you think! Gotta hit the shower and head off to the racebook...have a great day!

Bob

GR1@HTR
09-10-2001, 02:32 PM
Sparky,

First of all, welcome to the nest. Before you drop some heavy corn on the program, I thought I'd share the following with you.

1) I had heard a month ago (do not know for a fact) that Mitchell had disappeared from Cyn Pub and has not been heard from in a while. Like I said this was second hand info and I don't know if it is true. Perhaps someone closer to the situation can comment. Not tyring to start nasty rumors. Just relaying info...Hopefully it is not true.

2) The guy who wrote (did the programming) All in One.. .well his father is a very good handicapper and he doesn?t use Mitchell?s program but a fellow competitors program.

3) Ask why it is on sale/discounted? Is there a meaner tougher better program coming out?

Just food for thought and best of luck with your capping! BTW, most users I hear are pretty happy with the basic program.

09-10-2001, 04:24 PM
Hi GR1,
Thanks for the welcome! Dick Mitchell's disappearance does sound strange. I tried to access betovernet.com as Bob suggested and cannot get through, which is stranger still. I agree about questioning the sudden sale price. I'm glad you say most users are happy with the basic program.

Milfredo,
Yes, I agree about the Baze-Hollendorfer effect. I invariably bet against Baze. That's great that you are writing your own software. When you mention Schwartz's program, "HSH," can you spell that out for me please? What is the name of the program?

Richard,
Thanks for the positive opinion of Cynthia Publishing. I find it very helpful.

Everyone,
I'm intimidated by your knowledge!

Regards,
Sparky

hurrikane
09-10-2001, 04:43 PM
Be sure when you are considering the cost of the software to include the cost of the race files...that, in the long run..will be much more costly than the software.

mhrussell
09-10-2001, 04:59 PM
Sparky-

Make sure you check out the Handicapping Magician software at www.itsdata.com. In fact, you sound like you are a beginner (aren't we all!) and you may also be interested in the book that the software is based upon (Handicapping Magic). You can purchase both the book and the software together for $170. The race files are $1.50 per track and can be used with their Handicappers Daily (a very good electronic racing form with a bunch of good filtering features..) in addition to the Magician.

I use a "home grown" version of this that I developed in Microsoft Excel (see my other posts if you are interested..) but I highly recommend the Handicapping Magician.

Good Luck and watch out for those tiny field sizes in No. Cal.

Regards,

09-10-2001, 05:46 PM
Hi MHRussell,
Thanks for the tip on Handicapping Magic. I've gone to the site you suggested (itsdata.com) and checked out the info. Yes, I'm a rank beginner. I've been going to the track for about ten years and am only now exploring new handicapping avenues. I'm very interested in the software and will look up your posts about it.

My question: When you say the "race files" are $1.50 per track, do you mean the data downloads needed to run the Handicapping Magician software? Can they really be that inexpensive? "hurrikane" left a helpful post about watching this cost because it will end up exceeding the cost of the software (thanks, hurrikane).

Regards,
sparky

GR1@HTR
09-10-2001, 05:50 PM
Spanky,

You may want to try posting a question about cyn pub sw at

http://www.netcapper.com/TheGrandstand1_frm.htm

as I think a lot of former/current cyn pub players post there.

09-10-2001, 06:03 PM
Hi GR1,
Thanks, I will check out the site. It will be really helpful to hear what the cynthia players have to say.

Um, by the way, it's "sparky" not "spanky."

Regards,
sparky

GR1@HTR
09-10-2001, 06:25 PM
Sorry Sparky....Tpyo

Dave Schwartz
09-10-2001, 08:38 PM
Sparky,

HSH is The HorseStreet Handicapper.

We are:

http://www.horsestreet.com/

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

mhrussell
09-10-2001, 09:55 PM
Sparky-

Yes, the cost of the ITS data file needed for the Handicappers Daily and Handicapping Magician is just $1.50 per track. The BRIS data files that I use in my Excel Program cost $1.00 per track (but I don't get the nifty electronic Racing Form that you would have with the Handicappers Daily)

More importantly would be for you to read the book (Handicapping Magic)and learn the handicapping concepts.
The author strongly recommends that prior to using the software. You need to get a feel for the numbers so the computer becomes a tool you use rather than one that uses you. (see my Tail Wagging the Dog post...)

They are good folks there at ITS and although I don't use their products ( I am a Macintosh user and they don't have Mac compatible files) I consider Michael Pizzolla my teacher in this game. If you call them, they are very responsive and will answer any questions you may have.

Good luck and welcome to the board! There are no "dumb" questions so feel free to ask and contribute.

Regards,

Bob Harris
09-11-2001, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by sparky
Hi MHRussell,
Thanks for the tip on Handicapping Magic. I've gone to the site you suggested (itsdata.com) and checked out the info. Yes, I'm a rank beginner. I've been going to the track for about ten years and am only now exploring new handicapping avenues. I'm very interested in the software and will look up your posts about it.

My question: When you say the "race files" are $1.50 per track, do you mean the data downloads needed to run the Handicapping Magician software? Can they really be that inexpensive? "hurrikane" left a helpful post about watching this cost because it will end up exceeding the cost of the software (thanks, hurrikane).

Regards,
sparky

Sparky,

Matt is correct...the ITS data files are 1.50 per track. The same file is used to print out past performances and run the Handicapping Magician software...there is no additional charge.

While it takes a little while to get used to, I no longer print out the pps...I just flip back and forth between the 2 programs. Very economical any way you look at it!


Bob

09-11-2001, 12:59 PM
Hi GR1, Dave, Matt, and Bob:
I have read the "tail wagging the dog" post and agree with it completely. Handicapping software is a tool. The reason I have started investigating it is that I have been using loose-leaf binders stuffed with winning past performances and trainer data. I specialize in maidens and have found some nice patterns. However, this system is unwieldy and after filling up 12 binders I decided to find a better way. Computers can keep track of info in a tidy and organized way.

After reading your posts to me, I see that most of you use pace in your handicapping. You also use databases. I am ordering the book "Handicapping Magic" today and will read it carefully, "get a feel for the numbers," as Matt put it. It may be that the Magician software is too sophisticated for me. I'm going to give the book a try. When I was exploring the BRIS All-Ways software, I was overwhelmed by all the figures spewed forth by the program. I realized that it is necessary to interpret the data in an informed way, and that all the pace figures in the world wouldn't help me unless I understood what they represent.

After I read the book I may ask you more questions, hopefully in a more informed manner.

Regards,
Sparky

Slider
09-11-2001, 11:46 PM
Matt is correct...the ITS data files are 1.50 per track. The same file is used to print out past performances and run the Handicapping Magician software...there is no additional charge.

While it takes a little while to get used to, I no longer print out the pps...I just flip back and forth between the 2 programs. Very economical any way you look at it!


Bob
===================================
Bob the above statement leads me to a question. Is that the same ITS download that will also work for HSH (horsestreet handicapping program)?

Bob Harris
09-12-2001, 12:00 AM
Hi Slider,

My guess would be that it's the same file but I'm not 100% sure. When I download from ITS, the file is put into the Handicapper's Daily directory and then exported to any ITS related program I might be using.

I can't imagine HSH would use an altered file but because the Master Handicapper program does indeed use a completely separate data file, I can't be completely certain.

Bob

Dave Schwartz
09-12-2001, 12:15 AM
Yes, same file.

NoDayJob
09-12-2001, 12:46 AM
Sparky, Matt is correct...the ITS data files are 1.50 per track.

If you download enough files they are only $1 and after 15days have passed they are only $0.75. -NDJ

09-12-2001, 12:25 PM
Thanks, NoDayJob, for the info on download cost. I'm going for it. I've ordered Pizzolla's book from Amazon.com. Will get back to you all with questions.

Regards,
Sparky
P.S. Is your handle true?

NoDayJob
09-12-2001, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by sparky
Thanks, NoDayJob, for the info on download cost. I'm going for it. I've ordered Pizzolla's book from Amazon.com. Will get back to you all with questions.

Regards,
Sparky
P.S. Is your handle true?

*Yes*

andicap
09-12-2001, 01:40 PM
Sparky,
You didn't ask the key question:

Out of choice? :)

hurrikane
09-13-2001, 09:39 AM
Sparky,
I know it seems 1.50 is cheap..but if you play even just 4 tracks a day would cost 6 bucks x 30 days..is $180 a month. I know at this stage you may not play every day or even 4 tracks. Just want you to see...it seems very cheap but it adds up quick. Handicap magic is ok...just be sure that you want to pay the costs. A lot of the calcs you can do yourself and buy cheaper files, some as cheap as .50 a track or a service where you maybe spend 120 a month for all track every day.

Tigercrash
09-13-2001, 10:04 AM
Sparky,

I'm new to the board for posting, but have been lurking for quite awhile, and a regular poster at HorseStreet.

I have to agree with Hurrikane on the cost point. I download from HDW, using with HSH, and play 5-6 tracks per day.

If I had to download from ITS every track at their current price I would reduce my profit. I've used Handicapping Magician in the past, but the download cost was one factor in my decision to stop using it. The other factor is the depth, quality, and amount of information I can see and analyze using HSH.

I like many of Pizzola's approaches, but ultimately I am doing better on my bottom-line profit using HSH, than I was able to accomplish with Pizzola's stuff.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Kyle

GR1@HTR
09-13-2001, 10:25 AM
Yeah...I enjoyed Handicapping Magic (book) and was pleasantly surprised. IMHO, the Handicapping Magician SW program is a major disappointment from a quality and capability standpoint. Better off using the Handicapping Magic principles and applying it to either a past performance of your choice or another software program. Worst $150 I've spent in quite a while.

Tom
09-13-2001, 11:02 AM
If you use Formulator, it is pretty easy to use the principles of H-Magic with the pace options-you can easily see each horse's raw 2nd call time and 3rd fraction and mentally make the adjsutments for 2nd call beaten lengths.
Tom

09-13-2001, 12:55 PM
Andicap: Aye, that is the question. Or perhaps I should inquire if NoDayJob works at night?

hurrikane: Yes, I can see now from your message how the costs would add up. I would prefer to do calculations on my own, as I have been trying to do using books by Scott, Beyer, and Litfin, but in this day and age it seems that you have to put money in, in order to receive it. I've been searching for an edge over the handicapping general public, and I'd thought it was mainly a matter of hard, hard work. Thanks for your sage advice about the finance part.

Kyle: Nice to meet you. So the download cost was one factor in your decision not to use Handicapping Magic? I guess that the download from Cynthia for $50 limited use for month is at a par with other services after all. Thanks for mentioning HSH again . . . Dave gave me the web address a few messages back and I will certainly explore it.

Regards,
Sparky

09-13-2001, 01:12 PM
GR1 and Tom:
So you are suggesting that the principles of Handicapping Magic can be applied to other download sources or software . . . hmm. There are so many possibilities. I will do as Bob suggested . . . treat it as if shopping for a new car . . . find the method and the madness that suit me personally. I'm really glad you guys are out there.

Regards,
sparky

NoDayJob
09-13-2001, 09:45 PM
"Andicap: Aye, that is the question. Or perhaps I should inquire if NoDayJob works at night? "

Sparky,

No, I don't work at night either.

proffdw
11-07-2009, 09:08 AM
sparky.i just read your post about the easy capper software from cynthia publishing.i can't see anyone spending 500 for any kind of horse racing method.
i stated betting on the horses in 1967 at the old longacres racetrack near renton washington,and by myself,and then with my brother i boughr so many
systems,and methods where the only one who made any money was the person selling the system.and i don't believe it's any different today.during the last 12
years of racing at longacres,and 3 years of racing the horses at yakima meadows racetrack i had more winners,and made more money by using a tote
board method that cost me 10 dollars,now although i don't know why this
happens,but as soon as i tried to use the method at the new track EMERALD
DOWNS it didn't do any good at all.so you could say i've had experience
using different systems,and methods,and i nust say anyone who spends any
amount of money on horse racing systems is crazy. IMHO
proffdw

punteray
11-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Check out "HANDIFAST" on the'software section of the Forum. It is a great program and it is FREE.:)

PUNTERAY

kitts
11-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Lost the original thread on this one in a hurry. I still use All-In-One which is a step up from East Capper. I have used just about every known 'capping software and many other programs are as good or better. One has to find the software that "fits" their style of playing. One feels that "fit" soon after using a software but one has to invest some hundreds of dollars for the software and the data.

The rumor of Dick Mitchell leaving Cynthia Publsihing is true in that he passed away a while back.

I did work for Cynthia Publishing until 1995 and am friendly with those folks. I was on the inside in developing the All-In-One and I like it a lot.

Good luck on the search and be prepared to pay for the software and the data and the learning curve can be a bit frustrating