Your TSA at Work. Searching a 3 yr old

[JustRalph]

2TCHSGvNwRY

[ArlJim78]

Drugereport (http://www.drudgereport.com/) has this picture up. ya think we might have gone to far? have the terrorist's won when we're acosting three year olds, feeling up nuns, taking pictures of people privates?

http://www.drudgereport.com/tsa.jpg

[boxcar]

Has anyone noticed the deafening silence of BO on this issue? Maybe he'll get around to it after his next vacation, world tour...whatever?

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'd like to think that an airplane would never be brought down by an infant with a bomb in its diaper or a faux-nun with one in her bible, but unfortunately...

But... the degree of worry is still much too much for me personally...

Please make it as scrutinous for the people driving to the airport to get a driver's license as it is to board a plane if we're going to worry this much about our safety once we arrive at the airport...

[JustRalph]

It's all those damn Nuns who have committed terrorist acts that caused all this.

Not to mention those 3 yr olds who shamelessly walk around in Diapers and training pants that are so dangerous

[highnote]

I just hope that the TSA screens it's employees. I hope they are not allowing sex offenders do the searching! :eek:

[bigmack]

If you refuse to go through the scan and you don't want some TSA fool squeezin' your junk they won't let you get on a plane AND you can't leave the airport until you're cleared or you get FINED?

What is this?
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

[johnhannibalsmith]

I saw that story Mack.

If you don't consent to a search, then not only do you forfeit your right to fly, but you apparently forfeit several presumed rights along the way, offering up some probable cause for detainment and/or punitive action by virtue of simple refusal/non-compliance, rather than ejection.

It seems odd that you would even bother showing up with that attitude unless you were sort of looking for a fight or legitimately trying to avoid screening for a good reason, so I'm not really sure what to think. I'd might possibly act like that guy too, thus, I stay out of airports.

I do find it strange listening to some of the people bitch and complain about the screenings - if any of those bombs had detonated a coupla weeks ago that we've forgotten all about or taken for granted that it was foiled yet again - the same people bitching would be wailing that TSA isn't doing enough to protect the public. Grow an attention span or just don't fly. This is what people wanted, demanded.

[ArlJim78]

no JHS i didn't hear people demanding this, quite the opposite. It's foolish and an invasion of privacy. foolish because of the amount of resources wasted to check the same non threatening people every day.
http://www.drudgereport.com/tsa1.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well, maybe you are correct. I hope so. I find it absurd for at least those reason and I'll raise you several - the least of which is that with this reaction, if I were a loon jihadist, I'd suspend my airline fetish and start playing this game in public transit areas in major cities. What are you going to do, put one of those stupid ass things behind the turnstile at every subway stop? Martial law with padding in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[Tom]

What is this?


4th Reich?
Storm Troopers now run the airports?
It is BS all the way.


sing
Grandma got frisked and the bombs all got missed, that's logistics.

Or Springsteins new song,

Groped, by the TSA, I got Groped by the TSA,

[JustRalph]

no JHS i didn't hear people demanding this, quite the opposite. It's foolish and an invasion of privacy. foolish because of the amount of resources wasted to check the same non threatening people every day.
http://www.drudgereport.com/tsa1.jpg

I can't believe some of these pictures they are releasing

[highnote]

I think it is totally inappropriate for children to be subjected to being scanned by these machines. We don't know what the long term affects will be on them.

These machines x-ray your entire body for crying out loud. I don't care if the dosage is low. The effects of radiation are cumulative!

Also, a woman who may be in her early stages of pregnancy should definitely avoide these machines, in my opinion. The earlier in the pregnancy the greater effect the radiation can have on the baby.

[newtothegame]

Not too mention...I would seriously question the statutes regarding child porn and how they relate to this.

My wife saw some of these "photos" and blushed. I in no way would allow them to take these 'scans" of my grandaughter nor frisk her. Guess its best if I just chose not to fly. They touch my grandaughters "junk" and well I hope they have more then a few TSA agents....

This is exactly what the terrorist want. Security is needed, dont get me wrong. But, at what cost?? Seems we are consistently giving up more and more freedoms in the name of security.

[highnote]

I think the guy who told TSA if they touched his junk he would have them arrested has a valid concern. He also said that in any other situation this is a sexual assault -- except when the government does it. Another good point.

It's one thing for my doctor to examine me, it's quite another to let some government employee feel me up!

Not to mention, that if the government says the radiation exposure to these machines is safe then all the more reason not to use them. No one trusts politicians, so why would we trust them when they say the machines are safe!

How do we know those TSA agents aren't packing explosives in their underwear and waiting for a big crowd of people in the screening line to form so that they can blow everyone up? Who is screening them?



Not too mention...I would seriously question the statutes regarding child porn and how they relate to this.

My wife saw some of these "photos" and blushed. I in no way would allow them to take these 'scans" of my grandaughter nor frisk her. Guess its best if I just chose not to fly. They touch my grandaughters "junk" and well I hope they have more then a few TSA agents....

This is exactly what the terrorist want. Security is needed, dont get me wrong. But, at what cost?? Seems we are consistently giving up more and more freedoms in the name of security.

[JustRalph]

Private planes are cheap as hell right now..............

[bigmack]

Meanwhile the border remains porous and The DoJ is suing AZ for the possibility of racial profiling.

[highnote]

Private planes are cheap as hell right now..............


Good point. Who is screening the pilots and passengers of private planes?

No one, I assume.

[JustRalph]

Meanwhile the border remains porous and The DoJ is suing AZ for the possibility of racial profiling.

excellent point. The Irony is immense

[highnote]

excellent point. The Irony is immense


The solution is simple. If you're a citizen you have to get an implant of one of those little electronic ID tags so that you can be scanned. If you don't have one then you are an illegal alien.

[newtothegame]

The solution is simple. If you're a citizen you have to get an implant of one of those little electronic ID tags so that you can be scanned. If you don't have one then you are an illegal alien.

I know its late...but please tell me this was sarcasm???

[JustRalph]

The solution is simple. If you're a citizen you have to get an implant of one of those little electronic ID tags so that you can be scanned. If you don't have one then you are an illegal alien.

Those are so easy to fake, it's not even worth the effort.

[highnote]

I know its late...but please tell me this was sarcasm???


LOL Yes. I am being sarcastic. But it's not that far-fetched. 25 years ago who would have thought that a company would develop a machine that could see under a person's clothing and that our government would buy the machine and expect it's citizens to be subjected to them?!

They're already putting those chips in livestock. Aren't humans being treated like livestock as they are being herded through the security check points at airports?

[highnote]

Those are so easy to fake, it's not even worth the effort.


I would think some good counter measures could be developed -- like making a digital signature of the person's irises or fingerprints.

The scan of the chip would transmit the digital info about the irises and fingerprints. The digital info from the chip would have to match the actual scan of the iris and fingerprint.

If they don't match, you got yourself an illegal alien.

Better yet, everyone would have to go through one of those airport x-ray scanners and the digital image of their naked body would be stored on the chip. The suspect is stripped of their clothing and the scan of their body is compared to digital image of their naked body. If TSA thinks that they don't match then you got yourself an illegal alien.

[newtothegame]

LOL Yes. I am being sarcastic. But it's not that far-fetched. 25 years ago who would have thought that a company would develop a machine that could see under a person's clothing and that our government would buy the machine and expect it's citizens to be subjected to them?!

They're already putting those chips in livestock. Aren't humans being treated like livestock as they are being herded through the security check points at airports?

I know the technology is there....but if we are worried about scanners and the pictures that provides, I wonder just how intrusive a government agency could be with a chip implanted in us??????????
nahh, I think I will have to pass...!!!

[newtothegame]

I would think some good counter measures could be developed -- like making a digital signature of the person's irises or fingerprints.

The scan of the chip would transmit the digital info about the irises and fingerprints. The digital info from the chip would have to match the actual scan of the iris and fingerprint.

If they don't match, you got yourself an illegal alien.

Chip could also track your EVERY movement. And although, I am not real knowledgeable in tech type stuff...but if your computer could get a virus and go "haywire", what would prevent these chips from acting up at some point, giving false info, etc etc ????

Even though i am not a big conspiracy theorist, something as simple as a wic card. The government can track it, reload it, tell what your buying, discern your eating habits, etc etc....
Just too much for me.....

[highnote]

I know the technology is there....but if we are worried about scanners and the pictures that provides, I wonder just how intrusive a government agency could be with a chip implanted in us??????????
nahh, I think I will have to pass...!!!


A lot of people have an ez-pass toll transmitter and their cell phones are usually on. I'm sure someone at the NSA could easily find someone with just a few taps on a keyboard.

[newtothegame]

A lot of people have an ez-pass toll transmitter and their cell phones are usually on. I'm sure someone at the NSA could easily find someone with just a few taps on a keyboard.

EXACTLY.....why give them anymore??? Hell the way genetics are, who knows what could happen when they implant something into you?
They dont want me eating a happy meal from Mcdonalds cause its bad for my body but they could [potentially want to put circuitry into me??
Nahh...sorry I will have to pass lol

[highnote]

Chip could also track your EVERY movement. And although, I am not real knowledgeable in tech type stuff...but if your computer could get a virus and go "haywire", what would prevent these chips from acting up at some point, giving false info, etc etc ????

Even though i am not a big conspiracy theorist, something as simple as a wic card. The government can track it, reload it, tell what your buying, discern your eating habits, etc etc....
Just too much for me.....


Government counter measure... if your chip has been tampered with you may be subject to a fine and/or imprisonment.

Hey we better stop giving them ideas. :D

[highnote]

I just read where scientists have used rat brain cells to control a robot. I told a friend about the article.

He wrote back saying, "Well, at least now we know how politicians are created." :lol:

[newtothegame]

I just read where scientists have used rat brain cells to control a robot. I told a friend about the article.

He wrote back saying, "Well, at least now we know how politicians are created." :lol:

LOL...sad part is, we both know that the intellect of the robots is definitely higher lol.

[ArlJim78]

Caption contest: "And just what do we have here sir?"

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/xxx-tsa.jpg

[boxcar]

I read some really funny stuff on Free Republic about this new policiy. One guy said that when he flies this weekend, he's going to tape a long salami down inside his pants leg. I would love to see the look on the TSA guys face. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[highnote]

This whole electronic strip search and invasive pat-down has to be one of the dumbest programs ever conceived by the U.S. gov't and also one of the biggest wastes of money.

I read that kids under 12 will not be searched. That's a step in the right direction.

As a parent I can't imagine letting my young kids go through the x-ray scanner. Who the hell knows what the long term effects are. Many parents hope to be a grandparents one day. That may be difficult when your kids have become sterile from having every part of their bodies bombarded with x-ray radiation.

[boxcar]

EXACTLY.....why give them anymore??? Hell the way genetics are, who knows what could happen when they implant something into you?
They dont want me eating a happy meal from Mcdonalds cause its bad for my body but they could [potentially want to put circuitry into me??
Nahh...sorry I will have to pass lol

Maybe they'll give you a Big Mac free toy with that electronic gizmo to try to reinforce how healthy and good for you it is.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Opt for the scan and get some Flying Pasties.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/flypast.png
http://www.flyingpasties.com/2ndgeneration.html

[boxcar]

Some guy is aggressively pushing for Opt Out day over the Thanksgiving holidays. I hope a lot of people join in and cause a huge mess a the airports. No one likes this new policy except the stupid government. Not even the pilots or flight attendants like it.

Boxcar

[highnote]

What happens when some TSA frisker frisks someone with a colostomy bag, squeezes the bag and then the bag ruptures?

For that matter, what if someone says they have a colostomy bag, but it's really plastic explosives inside?

If a terrorist wants to blow up a plane, a frisky TSA agent or an electronic strip search is not going to be able to stop them.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Shep Smith is really hung up on the anal probe theory this afternoon.

[ArlJim78]

Shep Smith is really hung up on the anal probe theory this afternoon.
there are a number of ways I could go with this, but I think I'm going to let it pass this time.

[wisconsin]

Some guy is aggressively pushing for Opt Out day over the Thanksgiving holidays. I hope a lot of people join in and cause a huge mess a the airports. No one likes this new policy except the stupid government. Not even the pilots or flight attendants like it.

Boxcar

The delivery people who suppy the food and beverage stands also have to go through this!

[boxcar]

The delivery people who suppy the food and beverage stands also have to go through this!

I heard the same thing.

I also just learned that two pilots are suing TSA for violating their 4th Amendment rights. It sounds like they might have a decent case.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Well, maybe you are correct. I hope so. I find it absurd for at least those reason and I'll raise you several - the least of which is that with this reaction, if I were a loon jihadist, I'd suspend my airline fetish and start playing this game in public transit areas in major cities. What are you going to do, put one of those stupid ass things behind the turnstile at every subway stop? .

Funny, I heard some raving talk radio loon decrying the whole thing yesterday, but advancing a very similar and thought out argument. He said: " If I were them, I'd know that the busiest airport on or about Thanksgiving will be O'Hare. He mentioned perhaps 100k persons milling about. It would take little to have a small terrorist cell take the L to the airport with huge suitcases packed with explosives and mix with all the holiday passengers."

The real disquiet about this whole biz, not even with that fool " Junk Boy", is that the quality of the surveillance personnel is clearly suspect. You simply cannot cheap out here and allow reject Wal Mart greeters to apply and pay them $14/ hour. They need to paid 2-2.5x that, so that you begin to build up the level of anti terrorism expertise found in Israel. These people need to not be at the security check in, but rather be roaming the airport halls with authority to go eyeball to eyeball with any potential trouble they deem necessary. Of course, the Libertarians, civil or not, would be the first to decry that!

And, although I have some background in some of this work, I'm not even sure whether N American aiports employ undercover anti terrorism agents/ security police. I strongly doubt it.

So, we end up deafulting to what we have, with foolish screens of 3 year olds and grandmas. But, maybe that's the bottom line. Until such time as a better scanner is invented, EVERYBODY needs to go through it or see ya- you don't fly.

BTW, I will be flying over O'Hare next Wednesday- not through. No stops for Rookies.;)

[Pell Mell]

All this bullshit because one of the most useful tools in law enforcement has been taken away....PROFILING! Just to be PC :bang:

[boxcar]

All this bullshit because one of the most useful tools in law enforcement has been taken away....PROFILING! Just to be PC :bang:

You know...Affirmative Action was invented by some moron to supposedly end discrimination against Blacks. This is the good news. The bad, is that the law permits discrimination against Whites by giving preferential treatment to minorities at the expense of more qualified Whites. We have the same thing going on with the government's anti-Profiling policies.

Anti-profiling policy, while prohibiting profiling of one group of people, must by default profile everyone else outside that group in the name of Fairness and Justice. Think about this. No one makes these decisions in a demographics vacuum. It just isn't possible! It's no more possible than it is to give preferential treatment to Black people, under Affirmative Action law, and not have those outside the minority group suffer the consequences of being discriminated against. In order to not discriminate against Muslims (giving them preferential treatment so as to not offend them) , we must by default "discriminate" instead against all non-Muslims.

This is how utterly stupid our government is! And then some people here objected to my last tag line that said that "all mankind is stupid"! :bang: :bang: The very thing the government seeks to avoid doing to one group, it must do to another so that the first group is protected! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

QUOTE >with that fool " Junk Boy" <QUOTE

"Junk" boy is an American hero !! He will be remembered as the guy who put this TSAfoolishness to rest

[highnote]

One thing to keep in mind is that as the U.S. winds down its wars in the middle east, Turkey will continue to rise. Turkey is not a radical Islamic country. There is a secular faction that is strong enough to keep radical Islam at bay. I imagine there will be struggles in Turkey against radical Islamic elements, but that will mean less of a threat in the U.S. against radical Islam.

Germany is starting to reassert itself and so is Russia. History repeats itself. The battleground will probably be the same battleground as in the last 1000 years -- somewhere between the Baltic and the Black Sea where Europe, Turkey and Russia intersect.

[bigmack]

One thing to keep in mind is that as the U.S. winds down its wars in the middle east, Turkey will continue to rise.
Turkey is rising? Look out world, Turkey is on the move!

[boxcar]

Turkey is rising? Look out world, Turkey is on the move!

Yes, and it soon will occupy its high position in the world...when it is sitting on a platter on my table.

Boxcar

[highnote]

Turkey is rising? Look out world, Turkey is on the move!


It actually could be a good thing for the U.S. because they will fill the vacuum created when the U.S. withdraws from that part of the world. They will also keep the Russians occupied and the rest of Europe. However, their emergence could also present problems for the U.S.

Napoleon understood very well what he was doing when he sold the Louisiana territory to the U.S. He was helping to create a super power. So from that perspective Turkey is not an immediate threat.

I think the point is, history repeats itself. The Ottoman empire stretched into Europe and culminated with a battle in Vienna in 1683.

Turkey is starting to emerge as an economic force. They're not really Europeans and they're not really Middle Eastern. They're kind of a hybrid -- a mix of both. Islamic, but not radical. They're a U.S. ally.

I image that the borders surrounding Turkey may be different in 25 years. Look what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union. Now, some 20 years later Russia is starting to re-emerge. The European Union formed and is now teetering. Germany, part of the union, did not want to bail out Greece. These are the same types of events that have been going on for centuries.

The U.S. has been pre-occupied with Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Russia, China (to a large extent) and Turkey (to some extent) are emerging.

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor to get us involved in WWII and Germany had submarines in our waters. The world is a dangerous place. Events that are moving along slowly can suddenly escalate.

Turkey is an ally, but what if they want to get into the nuclear game? They were bidding on nuclear reactors from Canada and France back in 1998. (By the way, Canada helped Pakistan and India with their nuclear programs.)

Turkey can certainly afford to start a nuclear program. If they get nuclear weapons that would be a game changer.

Iran has indicated that it wanted to hold nuclear talks in Turkey.

I always remember the statement: Never underestimate your opponent.

[ArlJim78]

another insane TSA story from Red State (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/)at the link. Its pretty good.

[boxcar]

another insane TSA story from Red State (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/)at the link. Its pretty good.

It's lookin' more and more that the prophet Jeremiah had it right. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[highnote]

another insane TSA story from Red State (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/)at the link. Its pretty good.


I totally believe it.

I flew to the Breeders' Cup from NY to LA a couple of years ago. On my keychain was a mini swiss army knife one of my clients had given me as a Christmas gift. I had forgotten to remove it. TSA said I couldn't take it on the plane and that I'd have to put it in my backpack and then check my backback. Of course, my backpack had my life in it -- address book, reading material, pencils, pens, etc. So I reluctantly walked out of gate area and back to the ticket counter and checked my backpack with my swiss army knife inside attached to my keychain.

I get to LA and get my bags. I open my backpack to check to see if everything is in there. My keys were still on my keychain, but my swiss army knife had been removed!

I have had the choice between flying and driving on many occasions since then and I always drive. I wonder how much potential revenue the airlines are losing because so many people refuse to fly because of TSA?

[highnote]

Here's a scenario. Passengers check their bags at one airport. Then they change planes for a connecting flight to their final destination.

When they change planes their baggage is unloaded and then reloaded. What is to stop someone in the baggage department from planting a bomb in a suitcase as it is being transferred? Who would ever know?

What is to stop a bomber from putting explosives in the airline food? The food is taken on board and the bomb is detonated.

What is to stop someone from smuggling bomb materials into the retail stores near the gate beyond security? Once passengers have been frisked or electronically strip searched they are not screened again. It would be easy to have an accomplice pass them bomb materials that passed through the retail store -- or even through the maintanance department.

[Tom]

Caption contest: "And just what do we have here sir?"

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/xxx-tsa.jpg

"Ok, sir. Now, YOU do ME!"

[rastajenk]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Any of that sound familiar?

How ironic is this? For years we heard all about how the Bushhitler Regime was trampling the Constitution via its illegal and immoral wiretapping of suspected terrorists, even though there was never any evidence any individual random citizen was tapped...the mere thought of such a slippery slope sent the anti-Bushies into convulsions of disgust.

And now, yet, we have this kind of search happening to hundreds of thousands, or millions, of citizens, with Obamarama apologists doing a reverse pivot in the name of national security. Who'da thunk it?

[Tom]

If you equate this groping and exposure to radiation to wire tapping defined suspected phone class, you really have a problem.

Who was ever harmed by the wire tapping?
Names, Who was innocent and wrongfully hurt by them?
How many threats were averted?


Libs, try looking at your beloved Obama - the serial mass-murdered of the middle east, who is also continuing the wire tappings. In fact, the line between the Bush regime and the Obama regime is blurred - he has continued most of it and increased much of it.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/04/obama_wiretap_ruling.php

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/aug2009/blac-a22.shtml

There exists no substantive distinction between the Bush administration’s hiring of Blackwater to carry out “targeted assassinations” in Iraq with snipers and ambushes, and the Obama administration’s farming out to the military security firm its drone assassination program in the “Af-Pak theater,” whose victims have consisted predominantly of civilians.

[boxcar]

If you equate this groping and exposure to radiation to wire tapping defined suspected phone class, you really have a problem.

Who was ever harmed by the wire tapping?
Names, Who was innocent and wrongfully hurt by them?
How many threats were averted?


Libs, try looking at your beloved Obama - the serial mass-murdered of the middle east, who is also continuing the wire tappings. In fact, the line between the Bush regime and the Obama regime is blurred - he has continued most of it and increased much of it.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/04/obama_wiretap_ruling.php

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/aug2009/blac-a22.shtml

Just as he's continuing the wars. Since this country is flat broke and have drowned in red ink, how come BO hasn't ended both wars? Is it because he'd rather use them as an excuse to raise taxes?

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

If you equate this groping and exposure to radiation to wire tapping defined suspected phone class, you really have a problem.



Tom, I think he was pointing out just the opposite - how benign those "intrusive laws" actually were and yet the left (and many right of left) were apalled at, among others, the Patriot Act.

Now, not only has their hero expanded and extended the tenets, provisions, and practices under that "horrific" Patriot Act (along w/ keeping Gitmo open, drone attacks, indefinite detainment... things only GWB would ever do) - but now his administration won't let you in OR OUT of an airport without being photgraphed nude or having your dice rolled around with one hand while the other handles you like a trout.

In other words, if I read Rastajenk correctly, and it's a point I think is spot on - the guy that pandered to those that bitched about trampling of the constitution and suspensions of civil rights has raised the stakes exponentially all the while running his trap in complete contradiction.

[Tom]

Tom, I think he was pointing out just the opposite

I meant the "you" generally, not him.
Sounds that way when I re-read it. Sorry bout that.

[rastajenk]

I knew what you meant. :cool:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Okay, I re-read it with a Tom voice yelling at large and now I get it. :jump:

[Tom]

And, from atop a soapbox! :D

[Mike at A+]

Yes, and it soon will occupy its high position in the world...when it is sitting on a platter on my table.

Boxcar
No stuffing for me, thanks ....

[highnote]

I finally heard a good definition of what TSA stands for:

TSA (Testicle Stroking Agency) :lol:

[Tom]

"Has anyone else handled your bag?"
"You mean besides you?"

[highnote]

"Has anyone else handled your bag?"
"You mean besides you?"

I'm going to use that one next time I fly. I'll probably get kicked out of the airport, though. :D

[JustRalph]

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/files/2010/11/155034_1609769357623_1037904780_1723625_1062529_n. jpg

New best seller on Amazon

[Greyfox]

John Pistole the new head of the TSA was on CNN this morning.
He said that he is "very sympathetic" to the public outcry regarding pat downs, "but nothing is going to change." The guy is thicker than a brick.

Then John Mica head of the Congress Transportation Committee came on and said things are going to change. "We'll get it right yet."

It crosses my mind that many TSA workers must be "sleepwalking" and putting their values on the shelf in order to conduct these intrusive searches. What sort of individual would commit what borders on sexual assault just because it is a new job demand? Why aren't TSA workers standing up in mass and shouting:
"I won't do that." ?
Where ever you go in life, you can't just park your value system. It will come back to haunt you down the road if you do. Telling yourself that "I was under orders to do that" just won't cut it in the long run.

[Tom]

Obama has spoken out in favor of the groping and fondling.
Now we are sure it is wrong.


What can a citizen do?

Max out his rights.:

>Opt out - always. NEVER use the faster and potentially dangerous radiation dispensers.

>DEMAND clean gloves.

>Fuss, fidget, complain, and look the workers right in the eye and ask if they have ever been convicted or arrested for molestation, rape, or pedophilia.

>Complain that they have crossed the line and threaten a law suit.

>ALWAYS take down their names - write them down.

>Next step, we should start a website where their names can be posted as potential sexual threats bases on personal experience. Maybe vote on a gropper of the month.

>Foxie, if THEY don't have the morals to stop, then we target them personally. They are expendable. Break them.

>This a war on Americans by the occupying government - DO NOT give then a green light. LEGALLY, we can fight back. We have the legal right to do everything I listed here and we have NO obligation to explain why we exercise them.

The bottom line here is they are ignoring the real threats.

Time to put the man in his place. And his hands.

Remember, the Airport security allowed some of the 19 Death Pilots on board on 9-11. They willingly failed to do their jobs. Groping was not needed then - existing procedure, if followed by that lazy POS who let them pass, would have prevented or put a huge crimp in the 9-11 plot.

They fail, they are lazy SOBs and the corrective action is to to fondle us?

GDBP
GDTSA

[mikesal57]

Picture this....

You start going through the security check point...

you stand in front of the x ray scanner...

they tell you to move on....

As you go through , a TSA Agent walks up to you and says
"I'm sorry sir, but we need to examine you further"

You move into a secured room....

Another agent is waiting for you...

its a busty beautiful blonde...

as she squats down to pat you from the feet up, you notice that
the shirt is too tight and the top 3 buttons are open and there's cleavage all hanging out..

What do you do???

[boxcar]

No stuffing for me, thanks ....

That's enough to convert anyone to Vegetarianism for life. :D

Boxcar

[highnote]

Grey,
Check out the Milgram experiment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

People in the experiment were willing to electrocute another human being if a person in a position of authority told them to!!!!!!!!

I have no doubt that some of these TSA people would rather squeeze someone's testicles inappropriately than disobey their boss's orders.

I think the 60's mantra applies here, "Always question authority."

John


John Pistole the new head of the TSA was on CNN this morning.
He said that he is "very sympathetic" to the public outcry regarding pat downs, "but nothing is going to change." The guy is thicker than a brick.

Then John Mica head of the Congress Transportation Committee came on and said things are going to change. "We'll get it right yet."

It crosses my mind that many TSA workers must be "sleepwalking" and putting their values on the shelf in order to conduct these intrusive searches. What sort of individual would commit what borders on sexual assault just because it is a new job demand? Why aren't TSA workers standing up in mass and shouting:
"I won't do that." ?
Where ever you go in life, you can't just park your value system. It will come back to haunt you down the road if you do. Telling yourself that "I was under orders to do that" just won't cut it in the long run.

[Greyfox]

Grey,
Check out the Milgram experiment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

People in the experiment were willing to electrocute another human being if a person in a position of authority told them to!!!!!!!!

I have no doubt that some of these TSA people would rather squeeze someone's testicles inappropriately than disobey their boss's orders.

I think the 60's mantra applies here, "Always question authority."

John

I'm well aware of Milgram's experiments. Also I remember Lt. Calley ordering soldiers to kill innocent My Lai villagers in Viet Nam.

But you're right. Always question authority that pits you against your moral values.

[highnote]

I'm well aware of Milgram's experiments. Also I remember Lt. Calley ordering soldiers to kill innocent My Lai villagers in Viet Nam.

But you're right. Always question authority that pits you against your moral values.


I remember the My Lai killings, but did not remember the name of the officer.

We should not forget the lessons of the Nazi concentration camps, either. Many people acted contrary to their morals.

This whole airport screening is a joke. The terrorists who acted on 911 used dinnerware, not bombs.

I'd be more worried about train derailments and subway and shopping mall attacks. Why aren't there scanners in bus and train stations and subway and shopping mall entrances.

Also, once a person has gotten through airport security they are not checked again before they board the plane. These scanners need to be at every gate.

Once past security an accomplice working in the food court could pass bomb materials to a passenger before they board the plane.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't know... for practical purposes, I'd rather have the morally conflicted fellow grabbing my schlong than the guy that loves his job.

[boxcar]

John Pistole the new head of the TSA was on CNN this morning.
He said that he is "very sympathetic" to the public outcry regarding pat downs, "but nothing is going to change." The guy is thicker than a brick.

Then John Mica head of the Congress Transportation Committee came on and said things are going to change. "We'll get it right yet."

It crosses my mind that many TSA workers must be "sleepwalking" and putting their values on the shelf in order to conduct these intrusive searches. What sort of individual would commit what borders on sexual assault just because it is a new job demand? Why aren't TSA workers standing up in mass and shouting:
"I won't do that." ?
Where ever you go in life, you can't just park your value system. It will come back to haunt you down the road if you do. Telling yourself that "I was under orders to do that" just won't cut it in the long run.

This is one Pistole that needs to be fired.

Boxcar

[highnote]

I don't know... for practical purposes, I'd rather have the morally conflicted fellow grabbing my schlong than the guy that loves his job.



:lol: :eek: :bang: Either way the passenger loses.

[johnhannibalsmith]

This Pistole needs to be fired.

Boxcar

Very clever.

[boxcar]

Very clever.

I'm operating on a full tank of java...so beware. :D

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I finally heard a good definition of what TSA stands for:

TSA (Testicle Stroking Agency) :lol:

This one covers both genders and all the variations thereof:

http://rlv.zcache.com/the_tsa_poster-p228504856685265077f2lwf_400.jpg (http://www.zazzle.com/rightleaning/gifts?cg=196130022280835528)

[highnote]

The bottom part hits the nail on the head... Tough Shit America



This one covers both genders and all the variations thereof:

http://rlv.zcache.com/the_tsa_poster-p228504856685265077f2lwf_400.jpg (http://www.zazzle.com/rightleaning/gifts?cg=196130022280835528)

[Tom]

But you're right. Always question authority.

FTFY. ;)

[boxcar]

John Pistole the new head of the TSA was on CNN this morning.
He said that he is "very sympathetic" to the public outcry regarding pat downs, "but nothing is going to change." The guy is thicker than a brick.

Then John Mica head of the Congress Transportation Committee came on and said things are going to change. "We'll get it right yet."

It crosses my mind that many TSA workers must be "sleepwalking" and putting their values on the shelf in order to conduct these intrusive searches. What sort of individual would commit what borders on sexual assault just because it is a new job demand? Why aren't TSA workers standing up in mass and shouting:
"I won't do that." ?
Where ever you go in life, you can't just park your value system. It will come back to haunt you down the road if you do. Telling yourself that "I was under orders to do that" just won't cut it in the long run.

This is an EXCELLENT post due to GF's astute observations and profound question he raises. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Now that I have a few minutes, I'd like to elaborate on it a bit on a very serious note with respect to the core issue Greyfox has brought to fore: Where, oh where are the Moral Values of these TSA workers?

Make no mistake about this time: Our nation is in a defining, watershed moment in our history. How we respond to the gross and blatant violations of our 4th Amendment Rights that are designed to protect our privacy will determine whether we will continue our decline into the dark abyss of a much harder tyranny through a totalitarian-like structured state, or whether we we stand up and fight for our Individual Liberties and demand that OUR government put an end to the growing tyranny. I tell you a truth: If we don't put an end to this, what just happened in these recent elections won't amount to a hill of beans!

Some people look back in history to the time of the rise of Nazism and wonder aloud how it could have happened. How did the German masses allow Hitler to rise to such power? How could the German powers find the people to gas and dig mass graves millions of Jews? You want to know how? Look at what our TSA has become! Greyfox has nailed it solidly. The TSA also reminds me of nominal Christians who warm a pew every Sunday at their church, then come home to shelve their bibles so that they can live like the damned in Hell the rest of the week -- only to then turn around on the Sabbath day to play saint for a day again. These TSA workers, no doubt in the name of job security, shelve their morals 5 days a week in order to violate their fellow-citizens' privacy rights. Then I suppose, on their days off, they pretend to be normal, decent, law-abiding human beings until a new cycle begins.

I don't believe for a second that the timing of all this is just happens to coincide with the upcoming holidays. For one, it is happening right after the great victories we conservatives experienced this last election. What better timing than right after all that in order to discourage us and rob us of our joy and hope?

And I have believed for the longest time that BO would like nothing better than for a civil uprising in this country. I have little doubt that he would declare martial law faster than any of us could blink. This would give him the excuse he desires so badly to become this nation's dictator. Virtually everything would happen under his Executive Orders powers.

Also, we must not forget that this regime can win this latest war on on our liberties in different ways. Most people I know have vowed to stop flying commercially. Yet, this strategy actually plays into hands of this government because this means only the blind sheeple who are willing to forfeit their rights will walk into any airport. So, the state would use these sheeple to prove to the world that the American people accept all this, and everything is just fine, thank you.

What many of us should be doing is the exact opposite. We should go fly somewhere and then gum up the works, via our protests, at the airports. The sheeple aren't going to stir the pot, nor are the TSA workers. So, who does that leave?

Additionally, if many people refuse to fly commercially any longer and airlines suffer a steep decline in sales volume, as a result, this would further weaken the economy. The government would, then, demand more tax revenue in order to bail the airlines out of the very crisis the state created in the first place! (And we all remember how this regime loves a good crisis and would never let one go to waste, right?)

In conclusion, it's beyond the time that every single red-blooded American (not to be confused with the Marxist-Amerikans in the land) need to stand up and find our backbones and be counted. I believe the time is nigh that all true Americans go on strike and shut this nation down. We need to send the strongest message to the politicians that we can, stopping short of violence. (Violence is always the last resort. But if we fail to do this and and follow through on our core values via peaceful but strongly worded demonstrations, we are sunk as a free nation. I kid you not. These last elections won't amount to very much at all, if we allow the Ruling Class in D.C. to get away with this.

The conservatives over the airwaves, too, have to do their part. I'm sick and tired of listening to Hannity's drivel, for example, whereby he tries to defend the TSA because they're "only doing their job". Have I not repeatedly stated on this forum that the real problem with this nation are the people's moral values? The real problem isn't political in nature. It's moral because morality drives politics. Politics is grounded in a foundation or morals and ethics. In right and wrong. In good and evil. In righteousness and unrighteousness. These talk show hosts need to remind these TSA workers they, too, have core values and must live up to them. They must be willing to pay the price for the greater good of the country.

A friend emailed me and predicted that if we don't stop this now, the hand that is currently groping us will soon be turning the locks on our jail cells.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

If we were able to embrace our Muslim brethren throughout the world better maybe they wouldn't hate us and want to drive planes into buildings creating this Police state like environment.

Had we spent more time listening to peace loving people back in the sixties perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is.

http://images1.cpcache.com/product/world+peace-world-warmonger/15943861v4_225x225_Front.jpg

[boxcar]

If we were able to embrace our Muslim brethren throughout the world better maybe they wouldn't hate us and want to drive planes into buildings creating this Police state like environment.

Had we spent more time listening to peace loving people back in the sixties perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is.

http://images1.cpcache.com/product/world+peace-world-warmonger/15943861v4_225x225_Front.jpg

IF, IF, IF....Oh, Bro...If only I had done drugs back in the 60s, I would be an airhead lib today. Dwats!

Boxcar

[bigmack]

IF, IF, IF....Oh, Bro...If only I had done drugs back in the 60s, I would be an airhead lib today. Dwats!
Just because someone embraced the concept of peace and tranquility it doesn't mean that they automatically engaged in illicit narcotics.

[boxcar]

Just because someone embraced the concept of peace and tranquility it doesn't mean that they automatically engaged in illicit narcotics.

Oh...I never realized that. Funny, though, how the vast majority of libs behave as though never recovered fully from bad killer weed or overstepped on white powder. Must be a big coincidence. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. But remember, Clinton puffed and claimed he didn't inhale, but we all know better. And BO...well, he's in a class by himself. :D

[Rookies]

Oh...I never realized that. Funny, though, how the vast majority of libs behave as though never recovered fully from bad killer weed or overstepped on white powder. Must be a big coincidence. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. But remember, Clinton puffed and claimed he didn't inhale, but we all know better. And BO...well, he's in a class by himself. :D

As opposed to W who nearly drank himself into a grave and as a result- accomplished NADA in life and also tried the other usual suspect drugs.

Your point being what ? Nothing but bitterly partisan, as usual.
Nothing here... move on....

[Tom]

As opposed to W who nearly drank himself into a grave and as a result- accomplished NADA in life

BS detector just went bonkers.
No hockey this week to amuse your northerners?
No roads to plow?:rolleyes:

[boxcar]

As opposed to W who nearly drank himself into a grave and as a result- accomplished NADA in life and also tried the other usual suspect drugs.

Your point being what ? Nothing but bitterly partisan, as usual.
Nothing here... move on....

And the point to your post is non-existent compared to mine. When did I ever accuse W of being a conservative? My point is valid, therefore. Try to learn to read before accusing anyone else of partisanship. :bang:

Have a great night,
Boxcar
P.S. Maybe 'cap will volunteer 2 minutes of his time to you to teach you everything he knows about nuances. :rolleyes:

[hcap]

If we were able to embrace our Muslim brethren throughout the world better maybe they wouldn't hate us and want to drive planes into buildings creating this Police state like environment.

Had we spent more time listening to peace loving people back in the sixties perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is.

http://images1.cpcache.com/product/world+peace-world-warmonger/15943861v4_225x225_Front.jpg


Kumbaya bro' :cool:
Btw, box, I never inhaled.

[bigmack]

Unbelievable.

XSQTz1bccL4

The video’s description read, “Lets get the facts straight first. Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn’t set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn’t complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn’t end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn’t hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.”

[cj's dad]

TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine

'I was absolutely humiliated,' said bladder cancer survivor







By Harriet Baskas

Travel writer

A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.

“I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn’t even speak,” said Thomas D. “Tom” Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.

Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. “I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes.”



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/

[highnote]

Unbelievable.

XSQTz1bccL4


This must have happened before they put in the rule that kids under 12 didn't have to be patted down?

[highnote]

If you enter the airport and refuse to be x-rayed or patted down you are NOT allowed to leave the airport until you are x-rayed or patted down.

What happened to America? What happened to unreasonable search and seizure? What happened to the Constitution?

[johnhannibalsmith]

If you enter the airport and refuse to be x-rayed or patted down you are NOT allowed to leave the airport until you are x-rayed or patted down.

What happened to America? What happened to unreasonable search and seizure? What happened to the Constitution?

I was kind of hoping on of our resident ESQ types had an opinion on this as it related to the other thread about this subject.

If you are in a "secure" area and you exercise your rights, is that in and of itself some kind of probable cause? When you purchase a ticket, prior to the screening, do you by virtue of the transaction consent to the search while being made aware of its details as to mitigate any claim that it was unreasonable?

I don't really grasp how you can walk in, refuse the screening, and not only be refused service but be treated as a suspect in a crime. I also don't grasp why you would walk in and refuse it other than to be a bit of shit stirrer, but unless you are maliciously wreaking havoc over a business' ability to conduct said business, it does seem quite a little overreaching.

[JustRalph]

If you enter the airport and refuse to be x-rayed or patted down you are NOT allowed to leave the airport until you are x-rayed or patted down.

What happened to America? What happened to unreasonable search and seizure? What happened to the Constitution?

Not a 4th amendment issue. You voluntarily enter the airport under the guidelines of the FAA. You are giving consent for the searches when you buy a ticket. The details are in the fine print. Not an unreasonable search or seizure because it is voluntary.

[ArlJim78]

I alway hear that response Ralph, that you voluntarily give up your rights when you enter the airport, but that doesn't sit well with me. the constitution is suspended inside airports? Can they do whatever they want since we bought a ticket? I don't think so. This stuff that is going on is not reasonable.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Not a 4th amendment issue. You voluntarily enter the airport under the guidelines of the FAA. You are giving consent for the searches when you buy a ticket. The details are in the fine print. Not an unreasonable search or seizure because it is voluntary.

What about step #2?

It is no longer voluntary - you were unaware that there was an implied contract beyond the exchange of money for the specific service of air transit. You've decided "no thank you" and begin to depart the building.

What is the foundation for detainment without the benefit of arrest as a consequence of declining the search without the expectation of obtaining the service?

[boxcar]

What about step #2?

It is no longer voluntary - you were unaware that there was an implied contract beyond the exchange of money for the specific service of air transit. You've decided "no thank you" and begin to depart the building.

What is the foundation for detainment without the benefit of arrest as a consequence of declining the search without the expectation of obtaining the service?

There are constitutional experts who believe there's a very good case to be made on the basis of the Fourth. They particularly site strong case law precedents, as well.

And then there are other cans of sticky, smelly worms involved here, also. What about our right to our medical privacy? Yet, people with medical conditions are being forced to reveal what those conditions are to TSA workers. I wonder if we sign away those rights, too, when we buy an airline ticket?

Is this what the government is going to tell us -- that all our civil and constitutional rights are suspended whenever we decide to buy a ticket to fly somewhere? If so, it appears that imprisoned criminals might have more rights than an innocent traveler just wanting to to get from point A to B. :bang: :bang:

Boxcar

[highnote]

Not a 4th amendment issue. You voluntarily enter the airport under the guidelines of the FAA. You are giving consent for the searches when you buy a ticket. The details are in the fine print. Not an unreasonable search or seizure because it is voluntary.

Watch the video of that little boy without a shirt on being searched by a TSA agent and tell me that was reasonable.

Does anyone think for a moment that little boy was carrying a bomb under his shirt?

[boxcar]

Watch the video of that little boy without a shirt on being searched by a TSA agent and tell me that was reasonable.

Does anyone think for a moment that little boy was carrying a bomb under his shirt?

I just heard Ron Paul on Hannity. Talk about the blind leading the blind! :bang: :bang: He's sponsoring this stupid bill that would make TSA liable for breaches of policy -- which I suppose would include inappropriate groping? :rolleyes: Another clueless wonder, who by this bill, would be buying into the basic premise to this "enhanced security". And he really demonstrated how utterly stupid he is because he also acknowledged that police use profiling techniques successfully but he didn't want the federal government to go there. But he never explained why! :bang:

Then later on, he also conceded that the Israelis pretty much have their security policies and procedures down to a science, and says we should look into what they're doing. Apparently, he doesn't realize that there's a whole lot of profiling going on over in the airports in Israel. Unbelievable! Clueless as they come!

But he did say in the context of this interview that everyone has to be treated "equally"! Since when did equal treatment of citizens by this government become so important!? Is everyone and even entire states treated equally in the ObaminationCare bill? Are taxpayers treated equally with the government tax rates? Is the White Majority treated equally under Affirmative Action laws? Are all companies and unions currently being treated equally under ObaminationCare? What a hypocrite! And clueless Hannity sits behind his mike like a good little lap dog licking up all Pau's words with no tough challenges to rebut or question what the congressman was saying.

What is going on now is, yet, another great example of the government's love for implementing Double Standards whenever it suits them!

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Watch the video of that little boy without a shirt on being searched by a TSA agent and tell me that was reasonable.

Does anyone think for a moment that little boy was carrying a bomb under his shirt?

I didn't say it was right, and I am not defending the TSA. I am just telling you what the law is, as it stands. Boxcar, find me some case law and I will be glad to read it. Airports come under the jurisdiction of the owner and the FAA. They make the rules. You agree to them when you buy a ticket. The Airports agree to the FAA stipulations so that they can receive Federal Funds. The real argument here is probably a tenth amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) argument. That is a whole different can of worms.

Btw, if you look into that kid having his shirt taken off, you will find that the TSA didn't do that. His father ordered him to take his shirt off as an act of defiance against the TSA.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for this crap. I am just telling you how it is.

Try reading the fine print on your application for a pilots license. There you will find out that once you enter an Airport and get behind the yoke of an Airplane, all bets are off. Your ass belongs to the Feds. Same principle, different venue.

[PaceAdvantage]

What happened to America? What happened to unreasonable search and seizure? What happened to the Constitution?You'd think GWB was still president the way some are harping about this... :lol:

Then again, the silence of those here who were the most vocal critics of Bush and our supposed loss of Constitutional rights is deafening lately.

[boxcar]

You'd think GWB was still president the way some are harping about this... :lol:

Then again, the silence of those here who were the most vocal critics of Bush and our supposed loss of Constitutional rights is deafening lately.

Just call it the Silence of the Lambs.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

[QUOTE=JustRalph]I didn't say it was right, and I am not defending the TSA. I am just telling you what the law is, as it stands. Boxcar, find me some case law and I will be glad to read it.

I don't have time dig for that. Besides, the suit has already been filed. It'll come out soon enough.

All the pilot said (one of two filed a lawsuit) is that he was told by his lawyers that there was "strong case law" involving the 4th Amendment -- over and above the 4th itself.

Boxcar

[highnote]

I hear what you're saying. I asked an attorney what he thought about passengers giving TSA agents a hard time, looking them in the eye and asking them if they have ever been convicted of a sexual offense, etc. He advised against it and said one has to ask, is really worth "poking the bear".



I didn't say it was right, and I am not defending the TSA. I am just telling you what the law is, as it stands. Boxcar, find me some case law and I will be glad to read it. Airports come under the jurisdiction of the owner and the FAA. They make the rules. You agree to them when you buy a ticket. The Airports agree to the FAA stipulations so that they can receive Federal Funds. The real argument here is probably a tenth amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) argument. That is a whole different can of worms.

Btw, if you look into that kid having his shirt taken off, you will find that the TSA didn't do that. His father ordered him to take his shirt off as an act of defiance against the TSA.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for this crap. I am just telling you how it is.

Try reading the fine print on your application for a pilots license. There you will find out that once you enter an Airport and get behind the yoke of an Airplane, all bets are off. Your ass belongs to the Feds. Same principle, different venue.

[highnote]

A colleague of mine recently flew to Florida for work. He went through the scanner, but was asked to submit to a pat-down because of a "dot" on his leg that showed up on the x-ray. It turned out it was only a quarter that he had forgotten to remove from his pocket.

So instead of just asking him to empty his pocket again he had to be subjected to a pat-down, which he said was much more invasive than he anticipated.

The problem here is that the "dot" was on his thigh. Why was his genital area searched when it was already shown in the x-ray that his genital area was not the issue?

And the TSA wonders why passengers are angry!

[highnote]

You'd think GWB was still president the way some are harping about this... :lol:

Then again, the silence of those here who were the most vocal critics of Bush and our supposed loss of Constitutional rights is deafening lately.


Not sure if your remarks are aimed at me, or at an audience in general. I have always given criticism where I think criticism is due -- regardless of the party in power.

Besides, it's not often liberals and conservatives have an issue in common they can discuss on PA. :D

[rastajenk]

Boy, I don't know Ralph. I'm willing to defer to your law-enforcement background, but I think it's a pretty gray area. If an airline wanted to search you before getting on one of its planes, that would be OK; if you didn't like it, you might choose another airline that might have different policies. When you get frisked going into an NFL game, that's OK, because the NFL isn't a government entity (although some use publicly owned facilities). But the TSA is an agent of the state with police-like powers; there must be some Constitutional checks on them, or else the Constitution itself becomes pretty useless.

Where is the fine print that waives your rights? I'd like to see how it's worded.

[JustRalph]

Where is the fine print that waives your rights? I'd like to see how it's worded.

You are not waving your rights, you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the Airport and FAA. Those rules include the searches by the TSA. It is a tacit agreement to give up your rights. It is not specific to your Constitutional rights, but the effect of the rules results in what is often referred to as "Soft Tyranny"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_tyranny

We do it all the time in our society now. This is just a more volatile example.

[Tom]

What it is is exactly what Al Qeda wants. They issued a "glossy-paper" magazine on-line mocking the hell out us. We are their puppets.

America has it's head so far up its arse it can't see that we are being played for fools.

TSA is the Keystone Cops. Homeland Security is the Washington Generals.
Stick a fork in us, we are done.

[boxcar]

TSA is the Keystone Cops. Homeland Security is the Washington Generals. Stick a fork in us, we are done.

If we don't rise up and do something about this, we are done. This is how a tyrannical government wears a people down. First, they use an agency like the TSA and its workers to harden up their conscience so they will turn a blind moral eye to this nonsense, and then to beat our will down by getting us to go along so that we can get along by convincing us that it's all for our own good.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

I would love to know what intelligence they have that would cause them to break this crap out one week before the busy time of the flying year.

There has got to be an answer to that question. We will probably never know.

They are making a stink for a reason.

[boxcar]

I would love to know what intelligence they have that would cause them to break this crap out one week before the busy time of the flying year.

There has got to be an answer to that question. We will probably never know.

They are making a stink for a reason.

Because the Dems got trounced in the elections and this is payback time to the American people. I would not put this motive past this sociopathic narcissist in the White House. This would be BO's way of flipping the bird to the American people. We made his job a little tougher earlier this month, now he's going to make our lives tougher.

Another motive: Just who is standing to gain big bucks with all the scanners the government must buy?

Am I being too cynical? I'll let you have the last word. :D

Boxcar

[highnote]

Another motive: Just who is standing to gain big bucks with all the scanners the government must buy?

Boxcar


Of course it's about the money. Almost everything is about the money. 911 was about the money.

It's about who has the money and what they do with it. And it's about who doesn't have the money and how they don't like how they are being treated by those who have it. And it's about those who don't have the money not wanting to see others get the money (NY slots, for example).

It's all jealousy, greed and envy. Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people have to suffer the repurcussions of those emotions.

The problem is that terrorists think they change their situation if they go out and blow up things and people. That doesn't work. The U.S. still has all the money and weapons and are not about to give them up. If the terrorists changed their methods and showed the world the cause of their unhappiness they might find some sympathy. People love an underdog. But if they are going to kill because they are unhappy then they are not going to get much sympathy. In fact, their enemies will cause more bloodshed than their acts of terrorism.

One wasp might sting a person, but that person will destroy every nest in the vicinity in order to prevent being stung again.

In my extremely humble opinion, if you want to change things it's much better to do it the way Jesus, Ghandi, MLK or Madella did it -- non-violent resistance.

If you want to change the behavior of racetracks, you boycott. If you want to change the behavior of TSA, you cause delays by refusing to be electronically strip searched by an x-ray scanner.

[bigmack]

Here's the top 29 wanted terrorists. You see any named Billy, a 12 year old from Spokane or Aunt Bea from Mount Pilot?

Let's fire up some of that profilin' posthaste.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/t1.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/t2.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/t3.png

[highnote]

Coming to the United States soon... This should go over well...

Canadian airport, port workers soon may have to take it all off
OTTAWA — Canada’s border guards could soon get new powers to strip search employees in airport and ports across Canada in a bid to crack down on the smuggling of illegal drugs, such as marijuana, ecstasy and cocaine.

All that would be needed to frisk employees or trigger a strip search would be for a CBSA officer to have reasonable grounds to believe a worker in a customs-controlled area is smuggling something illegal.

http://www.canada.com/news/Canadian+airport+port+workers+soon+have+take/3866603/story.html

Don't even think about smuggling a Cuban cigar across the border!!

[highnote]

Nice. Now I feel a whole lot better. It's always nice to know that our former Homeland Security secretary Chertoff has a financial interest in full body scanners.

WASHINGTON - Since the attempted bombing of a US airliner on Christmas Day, former Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff has given dozens of media interviews touting the need for the federal government to buy more full-body scanners for airports.

What he has made little mention of is that the Chertoff Group, his security consulting agency, includes a client that manufactures the machines. Chertoff disclosed the relationship on a CNN program Wednesday, in response to a question.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/

[highnote]

I agree with Ralph Nader on this point:

One area in which I agree with Secretary Napolitano: Cooperation of the public is key to averting attacks. So it seems counterintuitive to antagonize the very people you're counting on to help you get the bad guys

[highnote]

Here's a blog from Penn of Penn and Teller about his experience with TSA:



http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html

Federal V.I.P Penn - 11/13/02
Last Thursday I was flying to LA on the Midnight flight. I went through security my usual sour stuff. I beeped, of course, and was shuttled to the "toss-em" line. A security guy came over. I assumed the position. I had a button up shirt on that was untucked. He reached around while he was behind me and grabbed around my front pocket. I guess he was going for my flashlight, but the area could have loosely been called "crotch." I said, "You have to ask me before you touch me or it's assault."

He said, "Once you cross that line, I can do whatever I want."

I said that wasn't true. I say that I have the option of saying no and not flying. He said, "Are you going to let me search you, or do I just throw you out?"

I said, "Finish up, and then call the police please."

When he was finished with my shoes, he said, "Okay, you can go."

I said, "I'd like to see your supervisor and I'd like LVPD to come here as well. I was assaulted by you."

He said, "You're free to go, there's no problem."

I said, "I have a problem, please send someone over."

They sent a guy over and I said that I'd like to register a complaint. I insisted on his name and badge number. I filled it out with my name. The supervisor, I think trying to intimidate me, asked for my license, and I gave it to him happily as he wrote down information. I kept saying, "Please get the police," and they kept saying, "You're free to go, we don't need the police." I insisted and they got a higher up, female, supervisor. I was polite, cold, and a little funny. "Anyone is welcome to grab my crotch, I don't require dinner and a movie, just ask me. Is that asking too much? You wanna grab my crotch, please ask. Does that seem like a crazy person to you?" I had about 4 of them standing around. Finally Metro PD shows up. It's really interesting. First of all, the cop is a BIG P&T fan and that ain't hurting. Second, I get the vibe that he is WAY sick of these federal leather-sniffers. He has that vibe that real cops have toward renta-cops. This is working WAY to my advantage, so I play it.

.... full story at the link

[boxcar]

Of course it's about the money. Almost everything is about the money. 911 was about the money.

Can you elaborate, please?

It's about who has the money and what they do with it. And it's about who doesn't have the money and how they don't like how they are being treated by those who have it. And it's about those who don't have the money not wanting to see others get the money (NY slots, for example).

It's all jealousy, greed and envy. Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people have to suffer the repurcussions of those emotions.

So...you're beginning to recognize that the love of money is the root of all evil?

The problem is that terrorists think they change their situation if they go out and blow up things and people. That doesn't work. The U.S. still has all the money and weapons and are not about to give them up.

Not if BO has his way. He recently told the Senate that's it's "imperative" to approve the New Start Treaty with Russia that would cut our nuclear arsenal drastically in a time when the world is becoming less stable with every passing day. In a time when it's becoming easier for rogue nations or terrorists to get their hands on nukes.

Boxcar

[highnote]

Can you elaborate, please?

Did the 911 terrorists not attack the symbol of capitalism -- The Twin Towers?



So...you're beginning to recognize that the love of money is the root of all evil?

Your question seems presuppositional. Depending on how you intended certain words to be inflected it could be interpreted different ways.

You did not phrase it the way most people phrase a question. Like this:

"So, are you beginning to recognize...?"

[boxcar]

Did the 911 terrorists not attack the symbol of capitalism -- The Twin Towers?

But this wasn't the core reason for the attack. The core reason was TERROR. The core reason was tocommit cold blooded murder to as many Americans as possible. The Twin Towers simply presented big, fat, easy targets due to their sheer height.

Your question seems presuppositional. Depending on how you intended certain words to be inflected it could be interpreted different ways.[/quote]

So answer it the way you interpret it. If you need clarification, permit me to quote my "presuppositional" source:

1 Tim 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil...
NASB

Do you believe this? Or no?

This is a pretty big theme in scripture. For, again, it is written:

1 Tim 3:3
...not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, uncontentious, free from the love of money.
NASB

And again:

Heb 13:5
Let your character be free from the love of money, being content with what you have...
NASB

And one more time:

Luke 12:15
And He said to them, "Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions."
NASB

And in this last passage, Jesus stated this in the context of being asked to redistribute the wealth of one man to another!

You did not phrase it the way most people phrase a question. Like this:

"So, are you beginning to recognize...?"

You're staining at a gnat only to swallow a camel. The way I asked it does not materially differ from the above.

Now...if you want a great example for the first passage quoted, you need look no further than to George Soros; for he himself admitted in a video that he put consideration of his money before the terrible consequences the people would suffer as a result of him crashing currencies. He loves his money far more than he does his fellow man. He had no problem bringing misery to his fellow man in order to protect his wealth. This is one evil human being, regardless of his "philanthropic" activities.

Boxcar

[highnote]

I think economics is at the core of the attacks.

Your presuppositional question asked about money being at the root of all evil. I do not think it is at the root of all evil as you asked before.

I agree that the want of money is at the root of many evils as you wrote below: "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil."

I think the distinction is important.








But this wasn't the core reason for the attack. The core reason was TERROR. The core reason was tocommit cold blooded murder to as many Americans as possible. The Twin Towers simply presented big, fat, easy targets due to their sheer height.

Your question seems presuppositional. Depending on how you intended certain words to be inflected it could be interpreted different ways.

So answer it the way you interpret it. If you need clarification, permit me to quote my "presuppositional" source:

1 Tim 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil...
NASB

Do you believe this? Or no?

This is a pretty big theme in scripture. For, again, it is written:

1 Tim 3:3
...not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, uncontentious, free from the love of money.
NASB

And again:

Heb 13:5
Let your character be free from the love of money, being content with what you have...
NASB

And one more time:

Luke 12:15
And He said to them, "Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions."
NASB

And in this last passage, Jesus stated this in the context of being asked to redistribute the wealth of one man to another!



You're staining at a gnat only to swallow a camel. The way I asked it does not materially differ from the above.

Now...if you want a great example for the first passage quoted, you need look no further than to George Soros; for he himself admitted in a video that he put consideration of his money before the terrible consequences the people would suffer as a result of him crashing currencies. He loves his money far more than he does his fellow man. He had no problem bringing misery to his fellow man in order to protect his wealth. This is one evil human being, regardless of his "philanthropic" activities.

Boxcar[/QUOTE]

[boxcar]

I think economics is at the core of the attacks.

Then I guessed they failed. But they did succeed at murdering more than a few people.

Your presuppositional question asked about money being at the root of all evil. I do not think it is at the root of all evil as you asked before.

I agree that the want of money is at the root of many evils as you wrote below: "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil."

I think the distinction is important.

Whatever the "distinction" may be, the love for money is undeniably something to be avoided like the plague according to various passages. We can see why with the Sororses of the world.

However, since you mentioned distinctions, there is a huge difference between one merely wanting some money and one lusting after it -- being greedy for it -- loving it as he loves himself.

Boxcar

[highnote]

However, since you mentioned distinctions, there is a huge difference between one merely wanting some money and one lusting after it -- being greedy for it -- loving it as he loves himself.

Boxcar

Agreed. Nothing wrong with wanting to earn money to support your family or give to charity, etc. It's when you become like Scrooge that the trouble begins.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's interesting to note how nine years can instill a false sense of security in people...so much so that we now have people toying with these TSA folks who are just trying to do their job and prevent another attack on America.

God forbid another building falls or another 3,000 Americans die. Then you won't hear a peep from folks like Penn Jillette and their bogus "assault" stories.

[bigmack]

It's interesting we now have people toying with these TSA folks who are just trying to do their job and prevent another attack on America.
God forbid another building falls or another 3,000 Americans die.
Solid point. :ThmbDown:

Squeeze that junk of Betsy,Wilma & Mickey. Waste tax dough on nerds with purple gloves to 'randomly' :D search.

Heck. If we want a safe America look for a knock on your front door tomorrow so they can look through your sock drawer.

Ya never know where the threat is. :lol:

[ArlJim78]

According to Big Sis, this is only the beginning.


“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”



this is supposedly to stay ahead of the terrorists, and for our own safety right?

[highnote]

It's interesting to note how nine years can instill a false sense of security in people...so much so that we now have people toying with these TSA folks who are just trying to do their job and prevent another attack on America.

God forbid another building falls or another 3,000 Americans die. Then you won't hear a peep from folks like Penn Jillette and their bogus "assault" stories.


I think it's important that the TSA system is thoroughly vetted -- and that includes getting feedback and criticism from the people who have to be subjected to the TSA system.

All passengers may eventually accept that being subjected to these electronic strip searches and pat downs is totally necessary.

But in the meantime, why should anyone blindly accept that any government agency is doing things properly?

[Tom]

It's interesting to note how nine years can instill a false sense of security in people...so much so that we now have people toying with these TSA folks who are just trying to do their job and prevent another attack on America.

God forbid another building falls or another 3,000 Americans die. Then you won't hear a peep from folks like Penn Jillette and their bogus "assault" stories.

Or, do we have a false sense with all this nonsense going on?

We do not profile.
We still put cargo in passenger planes
We do not check much of the stuff that goes on the planes.

Until we do, we are not being serious.

The underwear bombers did not board in the USA. How would our new procedures have stopped him?

-The package bombs did not originate here - no way we stop those.
-We got lucky in Times Square.
-Now, Al Qeda realizes that even in failure, they can win. They will spend pennies to cost us millions. Watch the ante go up real fast now.

[highnote]

Tom, I agree with you. It is the height of folly to think that electronic strip searches and pat downs are going to prevent bombs from getting on board.

High security prisons can't keep everything out. Prisoners smuggle cell phones in their rectums for crying out loud. Are we going to start having to search every passenger's rectum before they can board the plane? Is that the next step? Should we all agree to it because the TSA and our government says it's OK? How far is too far? To many people TSA and our government has already gone too far.

There are 65,000 people working for TSA. How many airport screeners are as well paid and as well trained as FBI or CIA agents? Probably zero. Therein lies the problem. Finding the bombs is not the problem. Finding the bomber is the problem.

It only takes a small amount of explosives to bring down a plane. If two or three operatives are working together and are on the same flight. It would be easy for them to smuggle explosives aboard the plane by concealing them in their body cavities. A pat down and virtual strip search are not going to detect these explosives.

Agents need to be trained in "soft skills" to find these bombers using observation, intuition and situational awareness.

You can put all the security measures in the world in place at airports and you will never be able to stop all terrorist attacks. Every time a new measure is put in place terrorists will find a weakness and try to exploit it.

Now, this is not to say we should not stop trying, but we need to find better ways. I certainly wouldn't want to be an airport screener. Long hours, boring work, surly passengers.





Or, do we have a false sense with all this nonsense going on?

We do not profile.
We still put cargo in passenger planes
We do not check much of the stuff that goes on the planes.

Until we do, we are not being serious.

The underwear bombers did not board in the USA. How would our new procedures have stopped him?

-The package bombs did not originate here - no way we stop those.
-We got lucky in Times Square.
-Now, Al Qeda realizes that even in failure, they can win. They will spend pennies to cost us millions. Watch the ante go up real fast now.

[bigmack]

This is gettin' good:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_24_10_12_30_43.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's high time people replied to these stunts by showing up at the airport in nothing but their skivvies to show solidarity among the compliant.

[PaceAdvantage]

Tom, I agree with you. It is the height of folly to think that electronic strip searches and pat downs are going to prevent bombs from getting on board.Then why have any of it? Just get rid of it all...

[highnote]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn
Tom, I agree with you. It is the height of folly to think that electronic strip searches and pat downs are going to prevent bombs from getting on board.

Then why have any of it? Just get rid of it all...


By pulling one quote from my post you changed the context. If you had used my entire quote then it would be clear that the answer to your question is given within my post.

I was arguing that better security is needed, not that we need to get rid of the current security.

Here is some more of my post that should help to clarify my argument:

You can put all the security measures in the world in place at airports and you will never be able to stop all terrorist attacks. Every time a new measure is put in place terrorists will find a weakness and try to exploit it.

Now, this is not to say we should not stop trying, but we need to find better ways. I certainly wouldn't want to be an airport screener. Long hours, boring work, surly passengers.

[PaceAdvantage]

By pulling one quote from my post you changed the context. If you had used my entire quote then it would be clear that the answer to your question is given within my post.

I was arguing that better security is needed, not that we need to get rid of the current security.

Here is some more of my post that should help to clarify my argument:Why do we need to find better security? Has there been an attack carried out on or through an airport in the United States since the TSA was invented? Just playing Devil's Advocate here, as I am often want to do...

Maybe what is in place now is actually working...

[highnote]

Why do we need to find better security? Has there been an attack carried out on or through an airport in the United States since the TSA was invented? Just playing Devil's Advocate here, as I am often want to do...

Maybe what is in place now is actually working...


How about the shoe bomber and underwear bomber? Lucky that both bombers failed. What if they hadn't?

The concern is not that what TSA is doing hasn't worked. The concern is that it will fail to work at some point. Scanners and pat downs are not going to keep all bomb materials from getting on board -- it's just a matter of time before a bomb slips through.

There are 65,000 people in TSA. Maybe cut this down by a few thousand and hire some highly skilled and highly trained agents.
What I suggested is that TSA needs to use "soft skills" rather than just hardware and they need to employ agents who are experts in these softskills.

[PaceAdvantage]

How about the shoe bomber and underwear bomber? Lucky that both bombers failed. What if they hadn't?

The concern is not that what TSA is doing hasn't worked. The concern is that it will fail to work at some point. Scanners and pat downs are not going to keep all bomb materials from getting on board -- it's just a matter of time before a bomb slips through.

There are 65,000 people in TSA. Maybe cut this down by a few thousand and hire some highly skilled and highly trained agents.
What I suggested is that TSA needs to use "soft skills" rather than just hardware and they need to employ agents who are experts in these softskills.Didn't the shoe bomber get on the plane in Paris? Yes he did...

Didn't the underwear bomber get on the plane in Amsterdam? Yes he did...

Come on man...this is too easy!

[highnote]

Didn't the shoe bomber get on the plane in Paris? Yes he did...

Didn't the underwear bomber get on the plane in Amsterdam? Yes he did...

Come on man...this is too easy!


That's exactly what I thought you'd post if I posted those two examples. (talk about easy ;) ) Just kidding. I enjoy debating. What can I say? Hopefully, we come to a deeper understanding and discover the truth.

My point is, x-ray strip searches and TSA fondling are not going to catch every person who is a would be bomber.

Sure, they'll be a deterent for about 5 minutes. Do you really think any highly trained operative is now going to be carrying bombs on their bodies that can be found with a pat down or a virtual strip search?

How many bombers have these machines and pat downs caught?

The two bombers mentioned above knew where the weaknesses were and exploited them. Lucky for the other passengers the bombs failed.

If a terrorist is trained well enough to become a suicide bomber that terrorist is NOT going to carry a bomb in plain view and try to get through airport security. And this is why better trained agents are needed.

Profiling alone won't work. There is probably some blond haired, blue eyed terrorist out there. In fact, the terrorist could dye his/her hair and wear colored contacts.

[boxcar]

Profiling alone won't work. There is probably some blond haired, blue eyed terrorist out there. In fact, the terrorist could dye his/her hair and wear colored contacts.

You'd have a very difficult time convincing the Israelis of this.

Boxcar

[highnote]

You'd have a very difficult time convincing the Israelis of this.

Boxcar


On the contrary. Israelis would probably agree.

To quote Scott Stewart of Stratfor:

"There is frequent mention of the need to make U.S. airport security more like that employed in Israel. Aside from the constitutional and cultural factors that would prevent American airport screeners from ever treating Muslim travelers the way they are treated by El Al, another huge difference is simply the amount of money spent on salaries and training for screeners and other security personnel. El Al is also aided by the fact that it has a very small fleet of aircraft that fly only a small number of passengers to a handful of destinations. "

(I read there are only about 50 flights per day from just a few airports.)


Another reason Mr. Stewart claims profiling doesn't work:

"...the threat does not emanate just from jihadists like al Qaeda and its regional franchises. Over the past several decades, aircraft have been attacked by a number of different actors, including North Korean intelligence officers, Sikh, Palestinian and Hezbollah militants and mentally disturbed individuals like the Unabomber, among others."

He continues:

"There has been much discussion of profiling, but the difficulty of creating a reliable and accurate physical profile of a jihadist, and the adaptability and ingenuity of the jihadist planners, means that any attempt at profiling based only on race, ethnicity or religion is doomed to fail. In fact, profiling can prove counterproductive to good security by blinding people to real threats. They will dismiss potential malefactors who do not fit the specific profile they have been provided."

[PaceAdvantage]

That's exactly what I thought you'd post if I posted those two examples. (talk about easy ;) ) Just kidding. I enjoy debating. What can I say? Hopefully, we come to a deeper understanding and discover the truth.

My point is, x-ray strip searches and TSA fondling are not going to catch every person who is a would be bomber.

Sure, they'll be a deterent for about 5 minutes. Do you really think any highly trained operative is now going to be carrying bombs on their bodies that can be found with a pat down or a virtual strip search?

How many bombers have these machines and pat downs caught?

The two bombers mentioned above knew where the weaknesses were and exploited them. Lucky for the other passengers the bombs failed.

If a terrorist is trained well enough to become a suicide bomber that terrorist is NOT going to carry a bomb in plain view and try to get through airport security. And this is why better trained agents are needed.

Profiling alone won't work. There is probably some blond haired, blue eyed terrorist out there. In fact, the terrorist could dye his/her hair and wear colored contacts.I have no idea what you want then. The present system, you claim, isn't good enough because eventually, somebody is going to get through the safety net.

You're almost saying "Why bother having any security at all?" We all know that isn't the way to go...

So what exactly is the answer? More restrictive procedures have been in place at US airports since 9/11. As far as I am aware, not a single flight has been compromised that has originated in the USA. Maybe I'm forgetting one or two close calls that failed, if so, it can't be more than that amongst how many tens of thousands of flights over the past 9+ years?

That's a pretty darn good record if you ask me...not sure why all the rancor to suddenly and dramatically alter things...

[boxcar]

That's a pretty darn good record if you ask me...not sure why all the rancor to suddenly and dramatically alter things...

As I told JR, it could well have a lot to do with the election results. I did predict Obama's "revenge". He is quite radical and there's an awful lot of pressure on him to move forward with his radical, authoritarian-state like agenda, in spite of the election results.

Also, the more intense use of TSA could also be a mass psychological conditioning move -- to soften Americans up for increased authoritarianism and even a police state.

Boxcar

[highnote]

I have no idea what you want then. The present system, you claim, isn't good enough because eventually, somebody is going to get through the safety net.

What do I want? Good question. What I want certainly wouldn't please everyone, either.

TSA went from 13 to 65,000 employees after 911. It is now a huge bureacracy. So I would cut down the number of employees for one. I think you'd need a team of highly trained, well paid agents at each airport who employ some of the techniques the Israelis use, although I know this is not the complete answer, but it is much better than what is being done now.

Chertoff's company consults for one of the manufacturers of the x-ray scanners. I feel this is a huge conflict of interest. History shows that the larger the bureacracy the more corruption and misallocation of capital is likely to take place.

We don't know how much radiation these machines emit. We can take our government agency at face value or we can question their claims. I question their claims -- especially when I hear from bi-partisan sources that the emissions are 10 times higher than claimed. These machines see through clothes. It's likely that a lot of the x-rays penetrate cells in the body. X-ray radiation is cumulative. No one knows the long term effects of exposure.

Also, it is hard for me to believe that every image being taken by these machines is not being stored. We already know images were stored in Florida, even though the agency said they wouldn't.

However, people are given a choice of x-ray or pat down. So that's good. However, terrorists are not going to be carrying explosives where x-rays can see them or where agents can feel them. So the only people being x-rayed or patted down are going to be those without explosives easily seen.

Once a person gets through the security check point they can board the plane. The check points need to be at each gate, not just at each terminal. It is not inconceivable that a terrorist could be working with an accomplice who had breached security at another point in the terminal -- say, a food worker or maintanence person.

Also, several operatives working together could carry small amounts of liquid in small shampoo bottles and toothpaste containers and in body cavities. Then mix them up when the get on the plane. Again, x-rays and pat downs will not detect these.

Last, flying is risky. We have to accept some level of risk. Every time you get on a plane there is a chance security has been breached and your plane will be sabotaged.

X-rays and pat downs may make it more difficult for terrorists to blow up a plane, but it won't stop them.

So highly trained, highly skilled, well-paid agents are needed to root out terrorists, not a huge bureacracy consisting low paid, overworked, low skilled agents.


As far as I am aware, not a single flight has been compromised that has originated in the USA. Maybe I'm forgetting one or two close calls that failed, if so, it can't be more than that amongst how many tens of thousands of flights over the past 9+ years?

That's a pretty darn good record if you ask me...not sure why all the rancor to suddenly and dramatically alter things...

Exactly. That's a pretty good record. So why piss off the American public with virtual strip searches and expose them to potentially dangerous levels of radiation when the system worked well without them?

Purchasing these machine is a waste of money, invasion of privacy and a misallocation of capital, in my opinion.

[boxcar]

Good luck with that ever-growing TSA bureaucracy. I think I read somewhere recently that Homeland Security just hired 5,000 more agents.

Who knows? These guys might wind up becoming BO's civilian army! Remember what the said during his campaign? He very much desires what would amount to a "standing army" within our borders. Why? For a police state, maybe?

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Who knows? These guys might wind up becoming BO's civilian army! Remember what the said during his campaign? He very much desires what would amount to a "standing army" within our borders. Why? For a police state, maybe?

Boxcar

A large army of men and women highly skilled in the tactics of testical manipulation and breast sweep maneuvers. Ooooh and they can commandeer the on-stage entourage from Madonna's Like A Virgin and Vogue tours for their hghly refined battle skills. I can almost feel a Commander Barney Frank joke coming...

[boxcar]

A large army of men and women highly skilled in the tactics of testical manipulation and breast sweep maneuvers. Ooooh and they can commandeer the on-stage entourage from Madonna's Like A Virgin and Vogue tours for their hghly refined battle skills. I can almost feel a Commander Barney Frank joke coming...

Everything evolves. Everything happens incrementally... Who knows what more advance training might do for these people? Could transform them into a trained army of armed Obama Brown Shirts. ;)

And what I find interesting, but more importantly disturbing, is that I haven't read or heard about even one TSA employee walking off the job because he refuses to molest or harass his fellow Americans in the name of "security" -- because he or she sees how wrongs these actions are. There appears to be no conscience within and certainly none without the agency. Very disturbing....Not a good sign at all for this nation. The herd of sheeple grows daily...

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

And what I find interesting, but more importantly disturbing, is that I haven't read or heard about even one TSA employee walking off the job because he refuses to molest or harass his fellow Americans in the name of "security" -- because he or she sees how wrongs these actions are. There appears to be no conscience within and certainly none without the agency. Very disturbing....Not a good sign at all for this nation. The herd of sheeple grows daily...

Boxcar

:ThmbUp: Exactly. Not even one that I've heard of either. Automatons?

[Tom]

That's a pretty darn good record if you ask me...not sure why all the rancor to suddenly and dramatically alter things...

Hold the phone!
That is exactly what the pedophiles at TSA are doing!

We have morons running this country that consider it a serious breech of freedom to ask a person, already legally stopped, for proof of citizenship, but they condone fondling Grandma and patting Grandpa's pickle to be ok????

Can anyone tell me, has airport security EVER apprehended a bona fide terrorist in the act of boarding a plane to commit an act of terror?

[Tom]

Chertoff's company consults for one of the manufacturers of the x-ray scanners. I feel this is a huge conflict of interest. History shows that the larger the bureacracy the more corruption and misallocation of capital is likely to take place.


Ding ding ding.
Give that man a see-gar.
This is nothing more than payoff.
There is money in terrorism.

Who protects us from THIS brand of terrorist?

[boxcar]

Ding ding ding.
Give that man a see-gar.
This is nothing more than payoff.
There is money in terrorism.

Who protects us from THIS brand of terrorist?

Yupper....ding, ding, ding is right! I wonder where Soros fits into all this? What does he have invested in these manufacturers?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

The growing outrage over the Transportation Security Administration’s new policy of backscatter scanning of airline passengers and “enhanced pat-downs” brings to mind these wise words from President Ronald Reagan: “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.’”

Some doctors apparently think these scanners ain't so good for our health.

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/health_stories/blaylock_TSA_scan_safety/2010/11/24/363489.htmls=al&promo_code=B2FF-1

Geesh...where's 46er just when we need a second expert opinion? PA, please let him back. I beg you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[Tom]

How about they put those backscanners in the Capital building and force every member of congress to go through them every day.

.....and then hope for the best.;)

[highnote]

This doctor has the same concerns I do -- x-rays hitting the eyes and testicles. However, this could result in lower birth rates in countries using these devices. So maybe that's good.

The next generation of children will be created by parents who were smart enough to avoid these machines. Darwinism at work. :D





The growing outrage over the Transportation Security Administration’s new policy of backscatter scanning of airline passengers and “enhanced pat-downs” brings to mind these wise words from President Ronald Reagan: “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.’”

Some doctors apparently think these scanners ain't so good for our health.

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/health_stories/blaylock_TSA_scan_safety/2010/11/24/363489.htmls=al&promo_code=B2FF-1

Geesh...where's 46er just when we need a second expert opinion? PA, please let him back. I beg you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

I give up....... they are right. The Terrorists have won......what is this lady ? 80-85 yrs old ? I am sure she is a terrorist......... a pissed off AARP member for sure........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/plastic_turkeys/terroristsuspect.jpg

[Tom]

When does TSA roll out the cattle cars?
And look - it takes TWO OF THESE MISERABLE COWARDS to violate the old lady. God help us if any one is considering these low life perverts part of our security.

Does Granny have an Arizona Tee shirt on?
Ironic, the government is violating here while refusing to do its job on the border.

I bet Granny could take that fat-assed bitch with her back to the camera.
But she had better look out for the groppers - she looks like she is really into it.

[Greyfox]

When you put a uniform and a badge of authority on grade school dropouts,look out. (And oh, yes. A two way radio.)
Searching that old babe, who was in a wheel chair, is just pure stupidity.

[johnhannibalsmith]

What airport is that?... because I'd maybe possible be okay with letting that gal with her hands on granny grope me about for a while... but we get the guy that looks like Richard Simmons, right?

[boxcar]

Has anyone heard about some horror story that allegedly involved a thirteen year old at some airport? I haven't had a chance to check it out. Was wondering if anyone else has heard anything?

Boxcar

[highnote]

I just typed "TSA horror stories" into a search engine. All kinds of hits were returned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/theweek/20101122/cm_theweek/209628

[highnote]

This will make you all feel better next time you fly Jet Blue. Their newest policy is that passengers can not leave their seats for the last hour of the flight. Why? Because this is when the last terrorist left his seat to try to blow up the plane.

WOW. I feel so much safer now. Brilliant idea! Does Jet Blue sit down with TSA and think of these things? Or do they both hire consulting firms to come up with these security measures? Pure genius -- just find out what the terrorist did last time and prevent them from doing it again.

I hope terrorists are not smart enough to think of getting out of their seats, say, 90 minutes before landing. Nah. Never happen.

[Tom]

TSA - Terrorist Supporting Association.

They make sure the terrorists have won.

[boxcar]

TSA - Terrorist Supporting Association.

They make sure the terrorists have won.

These new TSA rules have as about as much to do with security as ObaminationCare has with health care.

We are surrounded by politicians who dress up as harmless sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves, seeking to devour our Freedoms.

Boxcar

[Tom]

We are surrounded by politicians who dress up as harmless sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves, seeking to devour our Freedoms.

And check out our chitlins!:eek:

[Lefty]

Rookies, so you give GW NO credit for quitting drinking? I quit at 50 and it was damn hard. And you say he accomplished NADA? If you think being Gov of Texas and a TWO term President of the USA, is NADA, then you are not even close to thinking straight. Get real!

[Tom]

Lefty, Bush never did nada with a hockey stick, which might the scope of his frame of reference. :rolleyes:

[Steve R]

Hold the phone!
That is exactly what the pedophiles at TSA are doing!

We have morons running this country that consider it a serious breech of freedom to ask a person, already legally stopped, for proof of citizenship, but they condone fondling Grandma and patting Grandpa's pickle to be ok????

Can anyone tell me, has airport security EVER apprehended a bona fide terrorist in the act of boarding a plane to commit an act of terror?
Why would a true, well-organized terrorist (not the incompetent, amateur underwear bomber type) want to board a plane these days when he can blow up more people right there in the airport waiting to be scanned? Or how about in any of thousands of shopping malls on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? It seems to me that an in-airport or shopping mall terrorist event would have far more psychological impact. Then Mr. Chertoff could sell his scanners for use at every entrance of every airport, train station, bus depot and shopping mall. Capitalism at work.

[Lefty]

Oh, double hockey sticks :bang:

[JustRalph]

he can blow up more people right there in the airport waiting to be scanned? Or how about in any of thousands of shopping malls on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon?

This scenario is the latest fear

They haven't done it yet because the minute this happens.......The U.S. public changes its mind about Muslims and terrorism. Even the ones who ignore it and the left that screams about profiling etc will change their minds. The terrorists know this. They have yet to go to this extreme for that reason only. They have hinted at it lately though.

[highnote]

This scenario is the latest fear

They haven't done it yet because the minute this happens.......The U.S. public changes its mind about Muslims and terrorism. Even the ones who ignore it and the left that screams about profiling etc will change their minds. The terrorists know this. They have yet to go to this extreme for that reason only. They have hinted at it lately though.


I like to read the columns from Stratfor (http://www.stratfor.com). They are experts on geopolitics and security.

They recently had a good article about terrorism. http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20101123_aviation_security_threats_and_realities

The author made this point about profiling:
"There has been much discussion of profiling, but the difficulty of creating a reliable and accurate physical profile of a jihadist, and the adaptability and ingenuity of the jihadist planners, means that any attempt at profiling based only on race, ethnicity or religion is doomed to fail. In fact, profiling can prove counterproductive to good security by blinding people to real threats. They will dismiss potential malefactors who do not fit the specific profile they have been provided.

In an environment where the potential threat is hard to identify, it is doubly important to profile individuals based on their behavior rather than their ethnicity or nationality — what we refer to as focusing on the “how” instead of the “who.” Instead of relying on physical profiles, which allow attack planners to select operatives who do not match the profiles being selected for more intensive screening, security personnel should be encouraged to exercise their intelligence, intuition and common sense. A Caucasian U.S. citizen who shows up at the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi or Dhaka claiming to have lost his passport may be far more dangerous than some random Pakistani or Yemeni citizen, even though the American does not appear to fit the profile for requiring extra security checks."

[Tom]

Yes, and water boarding never gives good intel. Heard it before.
except WB DID yield good intel.

I can tell you this for a fact, while profiling might yadda yadda yadda, gropping grannie will never yield anything.

How is it Israel uses profiling so successfully? Because they use it intelligently, not the way "thinkers" thin it will be used. Surveilence of every mosque in NYC would be prudent. And everyone named mohamed.

[ArlJim78]

people keep talking about profiling as if it has to be defined only along racial lines. it would be foolish to do so of course. intelligent profiling would include race but also include behavior, etc. intuition and deductive resoning would be used to make a complete profile. dropping the political correctness would be the first step.

[Tom]

People walking out of mosques, crazy eyes, fists clenched, mumbling to themselves.......taking a cab to a gun shop.

Naw, bring on little Suzy and grope her goodies! :rolleyes:

[Lefty]

Profiling would also include background checks. I doubt terrorists appear out of nowhere; there no doubt would be something in their background that would be a tipoff.

[boxcar]

This scenario is the latest fear

They haven't done it yet because the minute this happens.......The U.S. public changes its mind about Muslims and terrorism. Even the ones who ignore it and the left that screams about profiling etc will change their minds. The terrorists know this. They have yet to go to this extreme for that reason only. They have hinted at it lately though.

Not only would sentiments drastically change even by many of the simple-minded Religion-of-Peacenik apologists, but it would be all over for BO and the Dems in two years. BO and his horde of Dem(on)s had better pack into his WH prayer closest like sardines with their prayer rugs and pray to their gods that America does not suffer a major attack on his watch.

Boxcar

[highnote]

People walking out of mosques, crazy eyes, fists clenched, mumbling to themselves.......taking a cab to a gun shop.

Naw, bring on little Suzy and grope her goodies! :rolleyes:


I agree. TSA hasn't a clue when it comes to profiling.

What do they do? They hire 65,000 agents, pay them low wages and give them very little training and let them pat down grandma and little Suzy and little Billy.

Oh... and they buy potentially dangerous x-ray body scanning equipment from a company that hire former TSA executives as consultants.

[boxcar]

I agree. TSA hasn't a clue when it comes to profiling.

What do they do? They hire 65,000 agents, pay them low wages and give them very little training and let them pat down grandma and little Suzy and little Billy.

Oh... and they buy potentially dangerous x-ray body scanning equipment from a company that hire former TSA executives as consultants.

It has nothing do with the TSA' s ignorance; but it has everything to do with this administration's official PC-based policies (read: anti-profiling policies). The TSA only follows orders from above.

Boxcar

[highnote]

It has nothing do with the TSA' s ignorance; but it has everything to do with this administration's official PC-based policies (read: anti-profiling policies). The TSA only follows orders from above.

Boxcar


You think these decisions are made in a vacuum? You think the FBI and CIA don't have input into these decisions? Hell, you may be right, but I'm skeptical.

I don't think they have an anti-profiling policy. I think they have a weak profiling policy. As has been stated many times, racial and ethnic profiling don't work because there are too many exceptions to the rule.

They need better trained agents who are experts at profiling the characteristics of terrorist behavior.

[boxcar]

You think these decisions are made in a vacuum? You think the FBI and CIA don't have input into these decisions? Hell, you may be right, but I'm skeptical.

I don't think they have an anti-profiling policy. I think they have a weak profiling policy. As has been stated many times, racial and ethnic profiling don't work because there are too many exceptions to the rule.

They need better trained agents who are experts at profiling the characteristics of terrorist behavior.

Homeland Security heads up the TSA. Homeland's boss is a guy named Barack Hussein Obama.

If they wanted to profile efficiently and effectively, all they would have to do is follow in the footsteps of Israel. When was the last time an Israeli airliner was brought down? The point is: They don't want to due to POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

When you have an administration that won't even call a terrorist attack a terrorist attack, but characterizes them as "man-made disasters", we have a HUGE problem in this country.

Or when we have a president who sounded like a rambling, incoherent, disconnected, mentally disjointed imbecile who required several minutes to answer a very simple, straightforward question in India about what he thought about "jihad", you had better believe we're in very deep piles of cow manure!

Or when we have a president who says America is not at war with Islam and pretends that all is well but totally ignores the fact that Islam has declared war on us the "great Satan", you had better start building your own safe room.

Can you spell DENIAL?

Boxcar

[highnote]

Sounds reasonable.


Homeland Security heads up the TSA. Homeland's boss is a guy named Barack Hussein Obama.

If they wanted to profile efficiently and effectively, all they would have to do is follow in the footsteps of Israel. When was the last time an Israeli airliner was brought down? The point is: They don't want to due to POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

When you have an administration that won't even call a terrorist attack a terrorist attack, but characterizes them as "man-made disasters", we have a HUGE problem in this country.

Or when we have a president who sounded like a rambling, incoherent, disconnected, mentally disjointed imbecile who required several minutes to answer a very simple, straightforward question in India about what he thought about "jihad", you had better believe we're in very deep piles of cow manure!

Or when we have a president who says America is not at war with Islam and pretends that all is well but totally ignores the fact that Islam has declared war on us the "great Satan", you had better start building your own safe room.

Can you spell DENIAL?

Boxcar

[Tom]

Homeland Security heads up the TSA. Homeland's boss is a guy named Barack Hussein Obama.

FTFY......

[boxcar]

FTFY......

There you go with that racist stuff again.. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

I give up....... they are right. The Terrorists have won......what is this lady ? 80-85 yrs old ? I am sure she is a terrorist......... a pissed off AARP member for sure........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/plastic_turkeys/terroristsuspect.jpgWhy is it off limits to search this woman simply because she is old?

Did you see the guy that got on a plane the other day dressed as a wrinkled old man?

Seriously, I'm not sure what some people expect or want.

After 9/11, everyone was complaining that enough wasn't done.

Now everyone is complaining that too much is done (or not enough of the RIGHT kind of thing, or whatever other ambiguous text is spouted here by people who really don't know what they want or what this country needs in terms of security...ralph, I don't direct this at you).

If you are going to fly, this is what is going to happen to you. Don't like it? Take a bus.

[highnote]

Seriously, I'm not sure what some people expect or want.

What people want is security, not virtual strip searches and patting down of old ladies who are obviously no threat.


If you are going to fly, this is what is going to happen to you. Don't like it? Take a bus.

Agreed, although I would never take a bus. I like the freedom that driving offers. When I retire, I'll buy an ocean worthy sailboat and then I should be able to get anywhere in the world without having to fly.

[PaceAdvantage]

Obviously NO THREAT? Really now...how obvious does it have to be?

Here is why that little old lady needs to be searched every now and then:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/04/canada.disguised.passenger/index.html

I have no problem with this little old lady being searched, and neither should anyone else.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/WORLD/americas/11/04/canada.disguised.passenger/t1larg.disguise.cnn.jpg

[ArlJim78]

They were stupid to not catch that guy in Hong Kong. They noticed he had young looking hands, if they would have asked him one or two questions he would have been exposed.

that stuff is commonsense, and should not be a rationale given to frisk or xray every person getting on a plane.

I guess if that would have happened on a US flight the TSA would by now have added a face pull to the list of pat down procedures. Every person will have their cheeks tugged on to see if they are wearing a mask, because that is what will make us safe. right?

[NJ Stinks]

Seriously, I'm not sure what some people expect or want.

After 9/11, everyone was complaining that enough wasn't done.

Now everyone is complaining that too much is done (or not enough of the RIGHT kind of thing, or whatever other ambiguous text is spouted here by people who really don't know what they want or what this country needs in terms of security...ralph, I don't direct this at you).

If you are going to fly, this is what is going to happen to you. Don't like it? Take a bus.

Just wanted to take this opportunity to say I agree with you completely, PA. :ThmbUp:

[highnote]

Yep. Obviously no threat. This man boarded in Hong Kong. Obviously they need to work on their security. Did they ever check his passport photo? Did they look at his hands?

All a security guard had to do was ask this man a few questions. It probably would have been obvious right away that he was wearing a mask.

Lax security is the problem here. Tell me, how different does a young man's junk feel than an old man's? Enough for security to tell?

Even if this guy would have been scanned by an x-ray, do we know for sure the machine would have picked up some irregularity?

The best way to stop this from happening is simply to question passengers.

When I flew on El Al from NY to Tel Aviv, I was probably about 35 or 40 years old. I'm caucasion of northern European descent. No one would mistake me for being a stereotypical middle easterner. Even so, the Israeli security asked me a lot of questions. They were very serious, so I cooperated.

No pat down or full body x-ray was needed.

HOWEVER, here is why these people need to be checked by our TSA agents. Because our TSA agents are underpaid and undertrained. The U.S. has a habit of throwing money after a problem.

The number of agents could be reduced if they were better trained and given better wagers. In the end, this would reduce costs and provide better security.

The problem is the agency is either lazy, incompetent, inexperienced or corrupt. Take your pick. No limit.

The bigger problem is that American citizens have to be subjected to their laziness, incompetence, inexperience or corruptness.





Obviously NO THREAT? Really now...how obvious does it have to be?

Here is why that little old lady needs to be searched every now and then:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/04/canada.disguised.passenger/index.html

I have no problem with this little old lady being searched, and neither should anyone else.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/WORLD/americas/11/04/canada.disguised.passenger/t1larg.disguise.cnn.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think I disagree with anything you just wrote.

[Tom]

Issue every passenger a 9 mm and we won't have to worry about terrorists. In fact, we could welcome them.

[JustRalph]

I still can't believe that the Mr Magoo outfit made it on the plane.... :bang:

Not many 80yr old women working as bombers so far........ that was just my point. It is the exact opposite of profiling.

[highnote]

Not many 80yr old women working as bombers so far........ that was just my point. It is the exact opposite of profiling.


Totally agree. Terrorists are going to adapt and find new strategies. Racial and ethnic profiling won't work.

That teen Christmas tree bomber was young man from Somali. He looks like a lot of young Americans, but we know not all young Americans are bombers. This is why racial and ethnic profiling have limited effectiveness.

Behavioral profiling would be a much better technique and probably would have uncovered the young Hong Kong guy who dressed up as an elderly man.

[PaceAdvantage]

Not many 80yr old women working as bombers so far........ that was just my point. It is the exact opposite of profiling.And when the first one does blow something up, we will all smack our heads in disbelief and go "how easy would it have been to STOP HER!!!" :bang:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328967,00.html

[bigmack]

Obviously NO THREAT? Really now...how obvious does it have to be?

Here is why that little old lady needs to be searched every now and then:
How would a pat down search have prevented Grasshopper from boarding the plane? Make ya a deal, have TSA squeeze the facial cheeks to ensure it's not latex and leave the butt cheeks alone. Mask problem solved.

[PaceAdvantage]

How would a pat down search have prevented Grasshopper from boarding the plane? Make ya a deal, have TSA squeeze the facial cheeks to ensure it's not latex and leave the butt cheeks alone. Mask problem solved.If the guy knows little old ladies (and men) are going to be pulled out and searched every now and then, there goes the option of donning the disguise.

It's really quite simple.

I say profile away...but also search the "would never happen in a million years" types every once in a while.

[JustRalph]

And when the first one does blow something up, we will all smack our heads in disbelief and go "how easy would it have been to STOP HER!!!" :bang:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328967,00.html

point well taken. But isn't it a matter of manpower and where you place your assets ? I would think the 80 yr olds would be my last area of concern. But then again, I don't have the benefit of the intelligence info the TSA has. Like I have said in other threads, without that info, we are all pissing in the wind.

[PaceAdvantage]

point well taken. But isn't it a matter of manpower and where you place your assets ? I would think the 80 yr olds would be my last area of concern. But then again, I don't have the benefit of the intelligence info the TSA has. Like I have said in other threads, without that info, we are all pissing in the wind.All I'm saying is, I would be SHOCKED if every 80yo is being searched like that woman in the photo.

They are probably searched a far disproportionate amount of the time compared to men in their 20s and 30s.

Someone snaps this photo though, and everyone just stares in disbelief. In my opinion, I have no problem with an 80yo woman in a wheelchair being patted down every now and then to keep everyone honest.

The rules are changing though with the installation of these body scanners, and I suppose ANYONE who refuses the body scan will be searched. I'm fine with that too.

[ArlJim78]

Review of the TSA x-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife (http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html)

[boxcar]

Review of the TSA x-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife (http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html)

So, this even more in depth report essentially echos the concern of the other report I posted a few days ago. Not to worry though, folks: The mainstream media will do its job and these health concerns will be front page news on all the rags and newscasts. :D

Boxcar

[Tom]

New TSA Slogans:

Can't see London,
Can't see France,
Until we see,
Your underpants

Grope Discounts Available

Wanna fly?
Drop your fly.

We are now free to move about your pants.

[highnote]

Review of the TSA x-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife (http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html)


Until I see empirical data that show whole body x-rays to be safe I will not go through those machines, nor will I permit my kids to go through them.

[Tom]

John, those are made by Chetoff's company right?
And what he famous for? A POROUS border.

Imagine how much radiation is leaking out of these bad boys!:eek:

[ArlJim78]

Until I see empirical data that show whole body x-rays to be safe I will not go through those machines, nor will I permit my kids to go through them.
nor will I, I do not trust them, and never will I don't care what data they come up with.

I will get in the line for the groping before having some TSA flunky running xrays on me.

[johnhannibalsmith]

All of Obama's cabinet appointees will lead the charge into civil litigation and class action on behalf of radiated air passengers in roughly 2 years. It's a win - win - win - win - win - sort of lose for everyone!

[boxcar]

All of Obama's cabinet appointees will lead the charge into civil litigation and class action on behalf of radiated air passengers in roughly 2 years. It's a win - win - win - win - win - sort of lose for everyone!

I just heard that in this society where some people are more equal than others folks like Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, etc. will be exempt from airport security.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

FspD26xED20

[Tom]

I just heard that in this society where some people are more equal than others folks like Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, etc. will be exempt from airport security.

Boxcar

Would YOU frisk Pelosi???? :eek::eek::eek:

[Golf and Horses]

Pretty good video on this subject...with a practical solution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dthXD-NI1TA

[highnote]

Interesting video. Thanks for posting!

Pretty good video on this subject...with a practical solution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dthXD-NI1TA

[Mike at A+]

TSA at work

[boxcar]

And these hybrid dogs the Ruskies use are a cross between a jackal and some other breed of dog (whose name escapes me at the moment.) Anyhoo...the important point to be made here that these hybrids have sniffers that are many times more sensitive than even your "ordinary" bomb dogs. And we mustn't forget that Russia has problems with Muslims, too. But even so...the Ruskies don't humiliate or punish the populace with moronic security procedures that do very little to actually protect. Why can't we learn from Israel and Russia? Answer: I suspect there's a secret agenda behind all this... Again, it must be asked: Can anyone be this stupid? Answer: Yes, on purpose!

Boxcar

[highnote]

Why can't we learn from Israel and Russia? Answer: I suspect there's a secret agenda behind all this... Boxcar


I don't think there's any secret -- it's all about money and power.

TSA went from 13 employess to 65,000 after 911. The head of TSA got a lot more power. The head of Homeland Security got a lot more power.

When Chertoff was Homeland Security Secretary he ordered the pornoscanners from Rapiscan -- one of his former clients. He has been busy on their behalf ever since.

When asked, TSA Administrator Pistole claims to know nothing about this.

WTF? He should know everything about it. That's his f***ing job. He should be checking out all the people behind Rapiscan to make sure we can trust their product. He should know who the investors are, where these scanners are made, where the components are built and how they are procured. In short, he should be a f***ing expert on these machines.

What a f***ing bullshit artist.

Soros sold his stock in the company several months ago. Soros is not often wrong. What does this tell us? That Soros has already made his money off the company? That he sees that the company's future is bleak? Something else?

One thing is certain... I will never voluntarily be scanned by these machines.

[Tom]

When asked, TSA Administrator Pistole claims to know nothing about this.


Good to know the security people are on the ball!
OR should I say, balls! :eek:


My solution is simple - I will never fly again. Haven't flown in 4 years, down from 3-4 times a month.

[Rookies]

My very recent experience.

#1 Went through the scanner at Pearson in Toronto last Wednesday. Quick and no additional pat down. No sign of any head banging protest anywhere. Nada to complain about.

#2 Returned from McCarron today and went through the scanner in black pants. Small pat down for about 3 seconds at the waist. Nada again, but I am going to see my new doctor Wednesday top get on a diet regimen, in case he thought my gut was concealing something.:lol:

No issue with me or any of the boys who went to Vegas...

[Tom]

Toronto is the the states?????

[boxcar]

My very recent experience.

#1 Went through the scanner at Pearson in Toronto last Wednesday. Quick and no additional pat down. No sign of any head banging protest anywhere. Nada to complain about.

#2 Returned from McCarron today and went through the scanner in black pants. Small pat down for about 3 seconds at the waist. Nada again, but I am going to see my new doctor Wednesday top get on a diet regimen, in case he thought my gut was concealing something.:lol:

No issue with me or any of the boys who went to Vegas...

Just remember what sheep and sheeple have in common: Both are pretty dumb. But I'm sure you'll find a reason to celebrate this fact.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Just remember what sheep and sheeple have in common: Both are pretty dumb. But I'm sure you'll find a reason to celebrate this fact.

Boxcar

:sleeping: Is that the best you got, Mr. I stay on top of Deliverance Mountain and never travel anywhere ?

The whiners here and the Tea Party droids who engaged in those ridiculous airport protests have nada as usual, as an alternative- except to go back to 'Father Knows Best' days of the 1950s, that false la la land era when people thought all the world was in order- as long as you belonged to the few insider groups.:rolleyes: But, the world moves on in a much more complex and variegated personna. It ain't ever going back.

We would all like Boxcar (except for the libertarians and the con squeamish moralists side), the type of intense scrutiny for airport security a la the Israelis. But Israel doesn't allow dozens of airlines from multiple countries inside their space. That's why they can concentrate successfully on El Al and pay people much higher than a Wal Mart greeter to do the proper job.

[bigmack]

The whiners here and the Tea Party droids who engaged in those ridiculous airport protests have nada as usual, as an alternative- except to go back to 'Father Knows Best' days of the 1950s, that false la la land era when people thought all the world was in order- as long as you belonged to the few insider groups.:rolleyes: But, the world moves on in a much more complex and variegated personna. It ain't ever going back.

We would all like Boxcar (except for the libertarians and the con squeamish moralists side), the type of intense scrutiny for airport security a la the Israelis. But Israel doesn't allow dozens of airlines from multiple countries inside their space. That's why they can concentrate successfully on El Al and pay people much higher than a Wal Mart greeter to do the proper job.
Look at you. You type all of that and the effect is that you once again declare yourself a raging fool.

Breathe deep the pipe you're smoking on.

[highnote]

A standard x-ray or a cat scan doesn't hurt -- a person never feels a thing while they are getting one. However, the effects of x-ray radiation on the cells in the body is cumulative, that's why routine front tooth x-rays are only given once every couple of years.

The backscatter x-rays from the pornoscanner penetrates a few millimeters into the skin of the entire body. Of special concern are the eyes and testicles as well as areas of the skin that may be precancerous or skin with melanomas.

But if a person feels better going through one, that's their choice. Luckily, U.S. citizens are still given a choice.

Personally, until the effects the machines have on the long term health of the body is better known, I will opt for a pat down.



My very recent experience.

#1 Went through the scanner at Pearson in Toronto last Wednesday. Quick and no additional pat down. No sign of any head banging protest anywhere. Nada to complain about.

#2 Returned from McCarron today and went through the scanner in black pants. Small pat down for about 3 seconds at the waist. Nada again, but I am going to see my new doctor Wednesday top get on a diet regimen, in case he thought my gut was concealing something.:lol:

No issue with me or any of the boys who went to Vegas...

[kingfin66]

...harassment of celebrities.

http://www.kfor.com/entertainment/ktla-baywatch-star-tsa-body-scan,0,7023136.story

[boxcar]

A standard x-ray or a cat scan doesn't hurt -- a person never feels a thing while they are getting one. However, the effects of x-ray radiation on the cells in the body is cumulative, that's why routine front tooth x-rays are only given once every couple of years.

The backscatter x-rays from the pornoscanner penetrates a few millimeters into the skin of the entire body. Of special concern are the eyes and testicles as well as areas of the skin that may be precancerous or skin with melanomas.

But if a person feels better going through one, that's their choice. Luckily, U.S. citizens are still given a choice.

Personally, until the effects the machines have on the long term health of the body is better known, I will opt for a pat down.

Yes, we're so lucky to have such an understanding and compassionate government that give us a choice between choosing possible radiation poisoning and suffering the indignity of having our private areas groped like common criminals -- quite possibly with unsanitized gloves if they weren't changed between gropes.

When was the last time you were sheared and checked for fleas, John? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[highnote]

...harassment of celebrities.

http://www.kfor.com/entertainment/ktla-baywatch-star-tsa-body-scan,0,7023136.story

Pam Anderson's backscatter x-ray:

[JustRalph]

2Qdb6wC0Iz4

[boxcar]

It's too late now, JR, for Americans to suddenly develop outrage. We clearly -- clearly have far too many sheeple in this society who have already accepted the entire premise behind these "enhanced" security searches blindly. And what's even sadder -- is that I bet a very large percentage of these sheeple squealed like stuck piglets when the Patriot Act was passed because their privacy was being invaded. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

2Qdb6wC0Iz4

Great stuff. The :lol: I had made my morning.

[highnote]

He grasped me firmly but gently just above my elbow and guided me
into a room, his room. Then he quietly shut the door and we were
alone.

He approached me soundlessly, from behind, and spoke in a low,
reassuring voice close to my ear.

"Just relax."

Without warning, he reached down and I felt his strong, calloused
hands start at my ankles, gently probing, and moving upward along my
calves slowly but steadily. My breath caught in my throat. I knew I
should be afraid, but somehow I didn't care. His touch was so
experienced, so sure.

When his hands moved up onto my thighs, I gave a slight shudder, and
partly closed my eyes. My pulse was pounding. I felt his knowing
fingers caress my abdomen, my ribcage. And then, as he cupped my firm,
full breasts in his hands, I inhaled sharply. Probing, searching,
knowing what he wanted, he brought his hands to my shoulders, slid
them down my tingling spine and into my panties.

Although I knew nothing about this man, I felt oddly trusting and
expectant. This is a man, I thought. A man used to taking charge. A
man not used to taking `no' for an answer. A man who would tell me
what he wanted. A man who would look into my soul and say ...

"Okay, ma'am, all done."

My eyes snapped open and he was standing in front of me, smiling,
holding out my purse. "You can board your flight now."