Breeders Cup Winner ,Zen and QR

[GARY Z]

I posted my thoughts about Pletcher and Quality Road over the past
two days.

I shifted my allegiance to Blame, and now, after this race, I have to state
my respect for Zen.

This race truly aligns itself to many famous Classic thrillers, and
to be blunt I figured I would have easy pickings with Blame at 5-1.

Visually it appeared Ms Z. was not handling the surface from the gate
to mid stretch, but her Class really showed in mid stretch. In addition ,
this track appeared to be a concrete highway, favoring stalkers,
not closers.

I watched Mike crying during his interview, feeling he was the cause of her
loss.I don't really think he was responsible, as he was pushing her
to get into the race on the back stretch possibly due to issues
track issues (surface and pace factors).

I really believe her campaign and recent win against Switch caused her
to regress, but I commend her connections and her trainer for
taking this shot against several honest competitors

As for my friend, TP, it is ironic L@10 and QR shared the same result from the
post 1.

I really believe this game is afffected by fate, and this the story of Zen
and these past few days would truly make an incredible movie..

[PaceAdvantage]

As for my friend, TP, it is ironic L@10 and QR shared the same result from the
post 1.Just for the record, how many BC races did your friend win over the last two days? :3:

[cj]

As I posted elsewhere, she was running as fast early as she always does. Well, maybe fast isn't the best word...same speed.

[classhandicapper]

As I posted elsewhere, she was running as fast early as she always does. Well, maybe fast isn't the best word...same speed.

I think I am going to have review that replay several times because either my initial observation was wrong, the official chart is wrong, or she made a quick move that narrowed the gap before the 1st quarter mile.

The official chart has her 7 lengths behind Musket Man after 1/4 of a mile. That puts her first fraction in line with what she typically does. But I could swear at one point she was practically disconnected from the field.

I thought she was about to be eased, pulled up in distress, or wasn't handling the dirt surface. It "looked" different than her typical slow to settle running. It looked like something was amiss.

Perhaps she was 10-15 lengths behind the pack briefly after failing to settle quickly and then Smith rushed her to stay in contact with the field and she was only 7 lengths behind at the 1/4.

I'm not the only one that made that observation in print and thinks the official chart may either be wrong or not reflect what actually happened early in the quarter.

[cj]

I'm not the only one that made that observation in print and thinks the official chart may either be wrong or not reflect what actually happened early in the quarter.

Yes, I've seen Davidowitz say the same thing, but he has reason not to be objective.

[GARY Z]

[ how many BC races did your friend win over the last two days? :3:


Yes, this is true, but, not to burst the bubble,my "friend"
also lost :3:


I know the response, 50% is a tough act to follow.I'll agree Pluck
looked impressive, but Uncle Mo was a given based on the bias.

Glad to see Bobby Flay win a big one.

The other three were off the board.

Bottom line, TP walks away with about 200k :eek:

[pandy]

I've worked as a chart caller for papers like DRF and Sports Eye and I can assure you that the first call distance is incorrect in the classic. Trevor Denman is a master race watcher and he indicated that Zenyatta was more than 20 lengths behind.

[elhelmete]

But I could swear at one point she was practically disconnected from the field.

I thought she was about to be eased, pulled up in distress, or wasn't handling the dirt surface. It "looked" different than her typical slow to settle running. It looked like something was amiss.

I thought the same thing.

[GARY Z]

Mike Smith has always been her jock, so the dramatic loss of lengths
in the early part of the race was probably due to a concrete/fast
track which Smith probably felt would work to his benefit
were there a heavy pace.

Trouble is, I think he overlooked the entire day of dirt races and
the calibre of the competition.

I still believe the last race against Switch caused some regression, and
note Switch finished second earlier in the card.I'm also thinking
the Lights might have affected her, uncertain if she ran under the lights
in previous races.

Also heard on TVG Zen did not gallop out, totally unilke her
previous finishes.

That said, she still proved her class to the world losing by inches
to a deserving winner.

[Jackal]

No one can blame Mike Smith or the racing surface for Zenyattas narrow defeat. Zenyatta has been allowed to crawl out of the gates her entire career. The surface at CD has always favored horses on or near the lead.

A few gate drills would have sharpened Zenyatta up. Maybe her connections were a bit over confident to think Zenyatta could run her usual race and win at CD. She ran a freakish race just to finish second.

[Tom]

I thought she was going to be eased early. One blimp shot made her look waaaay back. I have to watch my tapes again. Going by the stands the first time, I even mentioned in the War Room that it looked not good for her. I could be wrong.

The mile call in the charts on BRIS are definitely wrong.

[pandy]

No one can blame Mike Smith or the racing surface for Zenyattas narrow defeat. Zenyatta has been allowed to crawl out of the gates her entire career. The surface at CD has always favored horses on or near the lead.

A few gate drills would have sharpened Zenyatta up. Maybe her connections were a bit over confident to think Zenyatta could run her usual race and win at CD. She ran a freakish race just to finish second.

If they had to do it all over again I think you're right, they would have put a couple of sharp gate works into Zen, similar to the way Seabiscuit was prepared for the famous match race. Sheriffs used short fast hard works to tighten up Giacomo when he upset in the Derby. But hindsight is 20-20 and I don't think anyone could have imagined that she would break so poorly that it appeared that she was in physical distress. Sheriffs is an outstanding trainer, though, and he doesn't get drug positives like so many of the so-called top trainers.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sheriffs is an outstanding trainer, though, and he doesn't get drug positives like so many of the so-called top trainers.No arguing the outstanding trainer part, however, it is disingenuous of you to compare a man who has something like 74 starters TOTAL FOR THE YEAR, to an operation like Pletcher or Asmussen or any of the other "so-called top trainers" with HUGE BARNS and an OUTRAGEOUS number of starters (976 and 2138 starters respectively to date), thereby statistically making it incredibly more likely that one of these big barns will turn out a positive just through accidental contamination alone - compared to a small-fry like Shirreffs.

[pandy]

I'm just making a point, Sheriffs is a real trainer who doesn't pre race his horses. As you probably know, several top trainers in the business have had multiple positives, including Dick Dutrow. Steve Asmussen was suspended for Lidocaine, which blocks pain and is a barred substance, this is a very serious drug positive, not like some horse testing positive for a small trace of a drug that is allowed. To me, that suspension proves a lot about the type of trainer Asmussen is, someone who is willing to break the rules to win. Sheriffs would never use a prohibited drug like Lidocaine on any of his horses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sheriffs would never use a prohibited drug like Lidocaine on any of his horses.All I'm saying is, it's much easier to have an iron-clad handle on your operation when you only have 74 starters for the year. I'm not excusing anyone for any past violations.

Even Bill Mott once served a suspension for Lidocaine. I doubt you are prepared to lump him in with Dutrow.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/11406/new-york-trainers-fined-suspended-for-positives

[pandy]

Good point about Mott, I do not lump him in with a Dick Dutrow. My main point was that Sheriffs is a real trainer who does not juice his horses. Trainers like him who are successful deserve a lot of credit. Hall of Fame trainer Allen Jerkens has been training horses since the days of the Model T Ford and has never been suspended for a drug violation.