Is Uncle Mo the real deal?

[TheGrandDesign]

Uncle Mo ran huge,is he the real deal?Looking @ the replay of the race Jaycito may be a horse to keep a close eye on next year.
Never too early for derby talk.

[ArlJim78]

Right now he's the one to watch, that race was huge. The only question is how much will he develop from here.

[Marlin]

Churchill has a way of exposing horses that are short of Classic breeding. He is for real but beyond a mile and 1/8 I have huge doubts. Now Jaycito is bred to run all day and obviously has some maturing to do but........ it is a long way until May.

[nijinski]

Winning BC Juvey and the Derby has happened only once , with Street Sense.

he broke the jinx , but ot hasn't happened again.

[cj]

Well, he only ran about a length slower than the BC Classic winner. I'm sure that has never happened before, even with Arazi. Is he a superhorse? Was the Classic a weak contest? I'm guessing somewhere in between, but he certainly looks to be very, very good.

[RaceBookJoe]

I thought Uncle Mo looked good today, and I also thought Boys of Toscanova ran ok. It will be interesting to see how they develop over the coming months. rbj

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, he only ran about a length slower than the BC Classic winner.Now hold on there just a second. You know damn well that speed figures and artificial surfaces don't mix very well togeth...errr.....oh yeah...this year they raced over actual dirt....

Never mind.

[Jasonm921]

It's an annual question. My guess is that some horse in a very quiet stall right now will wear roses on the evening of the first Saturday in May.

[Tom]

We just found out who last years real deal was - LAL.:lol:

[Steve R]

We just found out who last years real deal was - LAL.:lol:
Looking at the final time pars for older male GSWs at CD, Blame was 1 tick slow, Dakota Phone was 4 ticks slow, Distinctive Dixie (in the Chilukki) was 8 ticks slow, Big Drama hit par and Uncle Mo was 1 tick FASTER than par for an older male.

[Valuist]

How good is Uncle Mo? Boys at Toscanova, who he beat by 4 lengths, is definitely a monster. I guess that makes Uncle Mo a certifiable monster.

[Tom]

BAT a monster? How so?
He won a 4 horse stake at Toga and the one he caught had a bad break. - not exactly striking fear in my heart. 12 length wins at 5 panels in July is nothing.

When either one them come back at 3 and do better I'll get interested.
Seen far too many great 2 yos turn into pathetic 3 yos.:sleeping:

[Marlin]

BAT a monster? ow so?
He won a 4 horse stake at Toga and the one he caught had a bad break. - not exactly striking fear in my heart. 12 length wins at 5 panels in July is nothing.

When either one them come back at 3 and do better I'll get interested.
Seen far too many great 2 yos turn into pathetic 3 yos.:sleeping:I would be shocked if a son of Officer or Indian Charlie won the Derby. But I have been shocked many times in this game.

[nijinski]

Reminds me somewhat of Devils Bag.

[Southieboy]

We get an extra week next year to the Derby, which pushes most of the preps back.

[Jasonm921]

108 Beyer...I cant recall a beyer that high for a BC Juvenile before....can anyone confirm past winners numbers?

[Steve R]

108 Beyer...I cant recall a beyer that high for a BC Juvenile before....can anyone confirm past winners numbers?
War Pass got a 113. I think this was a point better.

[Jasonm921]

a 113? War Pass was dominant that day but a 113 is high. I guess he bounced for the rest of his remaning short career.

[Valuist]

BAT a monster? How so?
He won a 4 horse stake at Toga and the one he caught had a bad break. - not exactly striking fear in my heart. 12 length wins at 5 panels in July is nothing.

When either one them come back at 3 and do better I'll get interested.
Seen far too many great 2 yos turn into pathetic 3 yos.:sleeping:

I'm not projecting a Derby or Preakness win for him. All I'm talking about is his performance so far. He won the Saratoga stake completely geared down. No doubt in my mind he could've won that race by 7-8 lengths if Dominiguez wanted to. He destroyed the field yesterday....except for one horse. 4 lengths at 1 1/16 miles translates to 7 Beyer points so he ran a 101. How many times on a dry track has the BC Juvenile winner run better than a 101? Since 1988, that has only been accomplished by Anees (102), Vindication (102) Stevie Wonderboy (104) and Street Sense (108). Yeah, I stand by the monster statement for BaT.

[Tom]

Reminds me somewhat of Devils Bag.

Funny, that is exactly who I was thinking of.

[Run Nicholas Run]

unlce mo is already a double toss for the derby!

[Cat Thief]

Didn't Indian Charlie lead to the stretch in the derby and end up third ... Bob Baffert trainer. My memory seest his but I might be wrong.

[nijinski]

Funny, that is exactly who I was thinking of.

Yep and the early Derby speculation has started too.
Too soon for me.

[Valuist]

Didn't Indian Charlie lead to the stretch in the derby and end up third ... Bob Baffert trainer. My memory seest his but I might be wrong.

Yes he did. Indian Charlie was favored in that Derby but the higher odds stablemate, Real Quiet, beat him.

[JustRalph]

much better odds that the Derby winner for 2011 is right now walking around in a paddock or barn somewhere in Florida or KY..........

But he did look good..........

[horses4courses]

It is puzzling how rare it is for the best 2 year olds to continue to develop at 3, and beyond.

Lookin At Lucky has done an amazing job in two seasons of racing.
Few can boast the record he has from 2 to 3.
Granted, he wasn't at the top of game yesterday, but he is still a fine colt.

The odds are against Uncle Mo staying near the top of the class next year.

[Tom]

I'm not so sure it is a much as they rise to the top as it is the top comes down to them.

[Bullet Plane]

There are a few who train on like Macho Uno, Point Given, Lookin at Lucky, Afleet Alex and Street Sense, and others - who hit the board or won in the BC Juvenile.

But far more that can't take the next step. War Pass, Stevie Wonderboy, Action This Day, Favorite Trick, Wilco, Pyro, etc.

I'll be taking a stand against him. I have to admit, though, I have already bet against him in the BC and lost. I' m planning on getting my money back - with interest- probably in his next race or two.

[Valuist]

The topic was "Is Uncle Mo the real deal"....not will Uncle Mo win the Derby. Based on his body of work, I don't know how anyone can say he isn't. He wasn't aided by a track bias or a phony pace. On November 7, who gives a damn about the Derby?

[Market Mover]

The topic was "Is Uncle Mo the real deal"....not will Uncle Mo win the Derby. Based on his body of work, I don't know how anyone can say he isn't. He wasn't aided by a track bias or a phony pace. On November 7, who gives a damn about the Derby?


He ran the Champagne as fast as Seattle Slew did. Only Devil's Bag went faster. And he was a speed freak.

The only obvious concern is Indian Charlie topside. Does anyone have stats on which offspring of Indian Charlie has successfully negotiated a mile and an eighth or the classic distance?

[Tom]

CJ gave him racehorse numbers.....113-108.
Impressive. Those numbers win a lot of stakes.
I'll give him credit for being real.

[tucker6]

It is puzzling how rare it is for the best 2 year olds to continue to develop at 3, and beyond.

Lookin At Lucky has done an amazing job in two seasons of racing.
Few can boast the record he has from 2 to 3.
Granted, he wasn't at the top of game yesterday, but he is still a fine colt.

The odds are against Uncle Mo staying near the top of the class next year.
... and yet, that rare horse rises to the top every now and again. Not saying Mo is the one, but he looks damn good in November. We shouldn't dismiss him outright.

[KidCapper]

He ran the Champagne as fast as Seattle Slew did. Only Devil's Bag went faster. And he was a speed freak.

The only obvious concern is Indian Charlie topside. Does anyone have stats on which offspring of Indian Charlie has successfully negotiated a mile and an eighth or the classic distance?


Although the majority of Indian Charlie’s offspring have done their best running at short distances — including female sprint champion Indian Blessing — he’s also produced some solid two-turn runners, such as Personal Ensign and Beldame winner Fleet Indian.

[SmartyLane]

Not to forget......his grandpappy on his mamma's side is Arch........the sire of Blame. Not sure he will ever get past 1-1/8 but with the bottom side being a mare by Arch, he may get closer then some would think. Harness that speed some, which he may not be capable of doing and he may be a monster. Too early to tell of course.

We were really close to the rail where the horses entered the starting gate. When I saw Uncle Mo, I turned to my brother and said, "Uncle Mo is F***** huge!" Truly a spectacular looking animal. He was a man among boys in that race, from a physical standpoint.

[horses4courses]

... and yet, that rare horse rises to the top every now and again. Not saying Mo is the one, but he looks damn good in November. We shouldn't dismiss him outright.

Oh, I won't dismiss him.
At this point, he is the logical KY Derby favorite. In 2010, he has been huge.
If he is healthy, and firing big again in the Spring, he could do it.
History tells us to not get carried away with his chances, though.

[Stillriledup]

Im going to make a lot of money at some point betting against this guy at 1-5. He's not going to retire undefeated and when he loses, i'll be there ready to get paid.

He's good, but by definition, he'll be overrated in the betting pools by the good people. Winning a race on national tv by a bunch of lengths can do that to a horse.

[Market Mover]

Im going to make a lot of money at some point betting against this guy at 1-5. He's not going to retire undefeated and when he loses, i'll be there ready to get paid.

He's good, but by definition, he'll be overrated in the betting pools by the good people. Winning a race on national tv by a bunch of lengths can do that to a horse.


What weaknesses in Mo do you see? Or are we simply discounting him as the real deal or a serious derby contender merely because he dominated on national tv?
Not all brilliant two year old winners are Arazis.
His ability to rate a bit off the speed at BC added a new dimension that could be just scary: rateable speed...

[Market Mover]

Not to forget......his grandpappy on his mamma's side is Arch........the sire of Blame. Not sure he will ever get past 1-1/8 but with the bottom side being a mare by Arch, he may get closer then some would think. Harness that speed some, which he may not be capable of doing and he may be a monster. Too early to tell of course.

We were really close to the rail where the horses entered the starting gate. When I saw Uncle Mo, I turned to my brother and said, "Uncle Mo is F***** huge!" Truly a spectacular looking animal. He was a man among boys in that race, from a physical standpoint.


His pedigree represents the ole speed over stamina breeding strategy...
Were we not surprised when an offspring of world record miler Elusive Quality swept two thirds of the TC?
Were we not surprised when a son of Bold Ruler harnessed that incredible speed to dominate the TC and become America's greatest racehorse in the process?

It's not too farfetched to think Indian Charlie was competitive to a mile and an eighth as he tired in that last furlong in 1998. He had brilliant speed. Perhaps the ole Claiborne bloodlines in Arch could yield some more magic and bring us something special in 2011.
His tremendous size can make up for what might seem as lacking in pedigree. All Johnny has to do is hold him early and unleash hell late.
This is NOT a runaway speed horse.
Can anyone post good closeup shots from BC day or Champagne day attributing to his impressive stature?

[Robert Fischer]

This horse is FAST.

[senortout]

Although the majority of Indian Charlie’s offspring have done their best running at short distances — including female sprint champion Indian Blessing — he’s also produced some solid two-turn runners, such as Personal Ensign and Beldame winner Fleet Indian.


Wow hold on there I don't really think IC sired Personal Ensign, do you?

this just in, upon reflection I really misread your statement....perhaps Fleet Indian WON the "Personal Ensign" race ok that makes sense then sorry bout that!!!!

[Stillriledup]

What weaknesses in Mo do you see? Or are we simply discounting him as the real deal or a serious derby contender merely because he dominated on national tv?
Not all brilliant two year old winners are Arazis.
His ability to rate a bit off the speed at BC added a new dimension that could be just scary: rateable speed...

I saw a couple things on tape that i didnt like. Also, even if i didnt see anything negative on tape, he's still a good bet against in the future just because he's so hyped up now he can't possibly provide any value in the wagering pools.

[joanied]

I would be shocked if a son of Officer or Indian Charlie won the Derby. But I have been shocked many times in this game.

This son of Indain Charlie has Arch as dam sire...that'll toss in some stamina!

Actually, I'm still going to keep an eye on Stay Thirsty.

[Bullet Plane]

I was listening to TVG or HRTV and they had a major casino bookmaker taking a stand against Uncle Mo in the Derby. The reasoning was- not that he didn't have the stamina, or speed, or ability...but that it was going to be hard to keep a horse this fast "sound" for the complete Derby grind.

Lots of fast ones like Eskendreya and I Want Revenge, etc. never load the gate on the first Saturday in May.
FWIW

[Market Mover]

This son of Indain Charlie has Arch as dam sire...that'll toss in some stamina!

Actually, I'm still going to keep an eye on Stay Thirsty.


It's a well-known fact that Uncle Mo absolutely toyed with Stay Thirsty as a workmate in the morning.

TPletch knows the two have no comparison...

[Market Mover]

I was listening to TVG or HRTV and they had a major casino bookmaker taking a stand against Uncle Mo in the Derby. The reasoning was- not that he didn't have the stamina, or speed, or ability...but that it was going to be hard to keep a horse this fast "sound" for the complete Derby grind.

Lots of fast ones like Eskendreya and I Want Revenge, etc. never load the gate on the first Saturday in May.
FWIW


I wouldn't say I want Revenge was that precocious or fast...

[cj]

I did not like hearing that there will be only two Derby preps, possibly the Swale and the Wood. The Swale?

[Bullet Plane]

I wouldn't say I want Revenge was that precocious or fast...
The 113 Beyer - I Want Revenge - got in the Gotham was the best since 1991, what's that 20 years, roughly speaking? That was really, really, really early in his 3 year old campaign.
You have a different figure or something? I don't get it.

[keithw84]

Wow hold on there I don't really think IC sired Personal Ensign, do you?

this just in, upon reflection I really misread your statement....perhaps Fleet Indian WON the "Personal Ensign" race ok that makes sense then sorry bout that!!!!

I also read it incorrectly at first, so you're not the only one!

[rastajenk]

Im going to make a lot of money at some point betting against this guy at 1-5. He's not going to retire undefeated and when he loses, i'll be there ready to get paid.You gonna bet all the others in every race he runs? So you can crow, "Yeah, I beat him!!!" That sounds like a winning strategy. :rolleyes:

[Jasonm921]

I did not like hearing that there will be only two Derby preps, possibly the Swale and the Wood. The Swale?


I agree.

Also I can't get this thought out of my head that we are seeing another Eskenderya or Scat Daddy. I keep envisioning a stud commercial in September advertising this horse as one of the "fastest two year olds in years" and flashing the Beyer figure as they say it. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but with Pletcher's track record of horses suddenly coming up lame in recent years I'm looking else where. Although I think the rise of Repole Stable could be huge for racing so I hope I am wrong.

[Stillriledup]

You gonna bet all the others in every race he runs? So you can crow, "Yeah, I beat him!!!" That sounds like a winning strategy. :rolleyes:


I actually might bet all others. I could theoretically do a huge tri box and beat him that way. Or, i can pick out one other horse and key him on top. Depends on the field and what it looks like. Either way, the good guys will prosper in the end. ;)

[Stillriledup]

I saw a couple things on tape that i didnt like. Also, even if i didnt see anything negative on tape, he's still a good bet against in the future just because he's so hyped up now he can't possibly provide any value in the wagering pools.


;)

This is why its good to pay attention. :D

[tribecaagent]

You're not really patting yourself on the back, are you?