HOY who wins it?

[TheGrandDesign]

Now who wins the horse of the year?

[Stillriledup]

Zenyatta wins it hopefully.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Blame wins HOY. Sorry, Blame "should" win HOY. Zen's much better than I ever appreciated, but I don't think she deserves HOY b/c of her schedule.

[Stillriledup]

Z

Even though Blame beat her, he doesn't feel like the HOY.

She does.

Ought to be interesting.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Z

Even though Blame beat her, he doesn't feel like the HOY.

She does.

Ought to be interesting.

If there's an award for Horse of the Past Three Yrs, I'd vote 10000000000% for Zen.

[FenceBored]

Z

Even though Blame beat her, he doesn't feel like the HOY.

She does.

Ought to be interesting.

He doesn't "feel" like the HOY? How does a HOY feel? :confused:

[GaryG]

If there's an award for Horse of the Past Three Yrs, I'd vote 10000000000% for Zen.I think that is what this year's HOY vote will be, a Lifetime Achievement Award. I am ok with it either way, but that seems like a sure thing.

[MickJ26]

Blame doesn't have the same gravitas (fashionable word lately) that Curlin and Rachel did. Zenyatta earned more love and respect in defeat than Blame did in winning and she'll get the sympathetic votes. Therefore, it's probably Zenyatta.

[horses4courses]

The head says Blame.
The heart says Zenyatta.

:confused:

[fronti]

Blame should be HOY, 4 G1s, one loss, BCC winner, beat Z. If Z would have come east more often this race may not has had as much meaning, but she didn't.

Having said that, I think they will vote Z HOY.

[tzipi]

It's surely Blame.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The head says Blame.
The heart says Zenyatta.

:confused:

Agree with this - I think Blame SHOULD be HOY, but people may just end up voting with their hearts.

[Tom]

My vote to LAL.

[cj]

One thing to keep in mind is the year isn't over yet. There is a big race at Churchill, drawing a blank, and there is the NYRA Mile.

[OntheRail]

Blame based on year... Sorry Moss puck it up again by ducking Big Races in CA.

[MickJ26]

One thing to keep in mind is the year isn't over yet. There is a big race at Churchill, drawing a blank, and there is the NYRA Mile.



You know, you're right, CJ.
Blame could come back in the Clark just to put some icing on the cake.

[FenceBored]

One thing to keep in mind is the year isn't over yet. There is a big race at Churchill, drawing a blank, and there is the NYRA Mile.

The Clark, and I believe you mean the Cigar Mile.

[GregReinhart]

You know, you're right, CJ.
Blame could come back in the Clark just to put some icing on the cake.

Blame was retired following the race - he's on his way to Claiborne.

[fronti]

Can Goldikova get it?

[Tom]

I bet LAL runs in the Clark.
I don't think winning a one turn mile is impressive, so I throw that one out as irrelevant.

[toussaud]

Claiborne is about as giddy as can be with a BC winner who beat Z.. they didn't waste 5 seconds retiring him lol

[GregReinhart]

Claiborne is about as giddy as can be with a BC winner who beat Z.. they didn't waste 5 seconds retiring him lol

He was done win or lose today - I had seen it in articles after the JCGC.

[Tom]

Can Goldikova get it?

In Europe maybe, but not here.

[cj]

Blame was retired following the race - he's on his way to Claiborne.

That stinks, oh well, such is racing. LAL and Fly Down could be stars next year.

[The Judge]

I don't know the rules for who can become HOY. I do remember a lot of turf horses that raced in Europe and the U.S that became HOY.

If that's correct then here is how I see it. 1. Zenyatta 2. Goldikova 3. Blame

[Grits]

Claiborne is about as giddy as can be with a BC winner who beat Z.. they didn't waste 5 seconds retiring him lol

Wouldn't you be if your farm was celebrating its 100 year anniversary, had stood some of the finest stallions in the world--including the top racehorse of all time, particularly when "said top racehorse" has continuously, for the last year, been called out and declared by the ZEALOTS to be far behind Zenyatta as the greatest racehorse that has ever stepped on a North American racetrack?:faint:

Seth Hancock, owner of Claiborne was as gracious as could be in the winners' circle with shakey voice, and gratitude, for Blame's outstanding performance. But then, he's just a nice Kentucky farmer--a self effacing one who happens to continue, as they've always stated, "doing the usual, unusually well." His daddy, Bull Hancock coined the phrase decades upon decades ago, and it still holds.

It was great to see the Hancocks and Claiborne in the winners' circle.:ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's see...

On the one hand you have Blame, winner of the Stephen Foster, Whitney and BC Classic with a second in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

On the other hand you have Zenyatta, winner of five restricted Grade 1s in California and a second in the BC Classic.

Ummmm...this should be a no brainer I would think. Not sure how any self respecting turf writer from either coast could vote for Zenyatta, but stranger things have happened I suppose.

[andymays]

The Zenyatta camp campaigned for runner up HOY again. It was their choice.

[cj]

The Zenyatta camp campaigned for runner up HOY again. It was their choice.

Yep, they went all in on the Classic and were beat on the river. It was predicted many times here that this is exactly what would happen.

[cpitt84]

In my mind, goldikova truly deserves it.

But, you would have to give it to Blame. Zenyatta's owners have decided this when they ran her against average females.

[Marlin]

Rachel had the stronger body of work last year. Blame has the stronger resume this year. The head to head win just makes it easier. Zenyatta will collect more hardware as older filly/mare.
The "lost it on the river" analogy is spot on. Hey, I'm not blaming the connections as I would likely have charted the same course. However, those are the breaks. FWIW Goldikova, although brilliant, has no chance for HOY. Turf
Horse of the Year is a strong possibility.

[Tom]

I can see Blame if I stetch it, LAL is a no brainer for me.
But Goldy - won one race here ......go home and get some Europe award. Not one of ours. Sorry - she is NOT a US horse. How about the Crumpet Aweard or something?

[delayjf]

Yep, they went all in on the Classic and were beat on the river.

Good analogy, Blame should and will win HOY and its Moss's fault.

[jelly]

Obviously Blame.

[Marlin]

I can see Blame if I stetch it, LAL is a no brainer for me.
But Goldy - won one race here ......go home and get some Europe award. Not one of ours. Sorry - she is NOT a US horse. How about the Crumpet Aweard or something?No huge turf horse this year. One awesome acceleration might be enough.

[The Judge]

I meant that horses who ran in Europe and ran in U.S (B.C) have won in Turf category so I assume they are eligible for HOY as well.

[cj]

I meant that horses who ran in Europe and ran in U.S (B.C) have won in Turf category so I assume the are eligible for HOY as well.

If you run in North America once, you are eligible. However, it isn't going to happen for the HOY in my opinion, ever.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Let's see...

On the one hand you have Blame, winner of the Stephen Foster, Whitney and BC Classic with a second in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

On the other hand you have Zenyatta, winner of five restricted Grade 1s in California and a second in the BC Classic.

Ummmm...this should be a no brainer I would think. Not sure how any self respecting turf writer from either coast could vote for Zenyatta, but stranger things have happened I suppose.

That's what I was going to say.If Zenyatta gets HOY for winning the Classic after facing nothing all year then beating while winning other prestigious races instantly gets you HOY.

What some fail to understand is that had Zenyatta had a good road campaign against males dominantly and came up a little short here,with maybe a loss elsewhere,but a few big wins vs males she'd still be in the running for HOY.That fuggin record ruined things for more than your average superficial racing fan.

[Marlin]

That's what I was going to say.If Zenyatta gets HOY for winning the Classic after facing nothing all year then beating while winning other prestigious races instantly gets you HOY.

What some fail to understand is that had Zenyatta had a good road campaign against males dominantly and came up a little short here,with maybe a loss elsewhere,but a few big wins vs males she'd still be in the running for HOY.That fuggin record ruined things for more than your average superficial racing fan.If you analyze it, the campaign wasn't really as big of negative as most would think. She was 4-5 to win the Classic essentially making her 4-5 to win H.O.Y. Simply put, it was tonights loss, not her campaign that cost her H.O.Y. Although it would have been cool to see a different campaign.

[JustRalph]

Goldy gets my vote

[CincyHorseplayer]

If you analyze it, the campaign wasn't really as big of negative as most would think. She was 4-5 to win the Classic essentially making her 4-5 to win H.O.Y. Simply put, it was tonights loss, not her campaign that cost her H.O.Y. Although it would have been cool to see a different campaign.

Her odds today had absolutely nothing to do with her credibility on the year.

[The Judge]

"Wonder why this horse never won HOY? She won 19 in a row. She only lost one race by a nose and it was in the BC Classic! Wow, must have been some great horses running back then, wonder why we never heard of any of them?

[thaskalos]

Blame deserves the award...but sentimentality should not be taken lightly in cases such as this.

Don't forget...Paul Newman won his best actor Oscar for "The Color Of Money".

[cj]

Blame deserves the award...but sentimentality should not be taken lightly in cases such as this.

Don't forget...Paul Newman won his best actor Oscar for "The Color Of Money".

A very underrated movie. ;)

[JustRalph]

Blame deserves the award...but sentimentality should not be taken lightly in cases such as this.

Don't forget...Paul Newman won his best actor Oscar for "The Color Of Money".

don't forget Henry Fonda for that piece of crap on the pond............

Sentimentality should have nothing to do with it. Goldikova is the horse of the year if you ask me......... Goldy has done it three years running. Campaigned against all comers etc. Gets it done again and in style. If we are going to give points for sentimentality, we gotta give style points too!

[cpitt84]

don't forget Henry Fonda for that piece of crap on the pond............

Sentimentality should have nothing to do with it. Goldikova is the horse of the year if you ask me......... Goldy has done it three years running. Campaigned against all comers etc. Gets it done again and in style. If we are going to give points for sentimentality, we gotta give style points too!

I agree. And you cant say she didn't race against males and you cant say she had a conservative campaign...I think she has the most Grade 1 wins of any horse in european history..if i read that right.

She really does deserve it.

[toussaud]

I think blame has it.

I would like however, goldy to get the eclipse award for female turf horse of the year

[v j stauffer]

The award is for horse of the year. This year. Blame will have finished this year 4 for 5 and won the BC Classic. Zenyatta will have finished the year 5 for 6 and finished second in the BC Classic. It's one of the wierdest statistical oddities I've ever seen that she won't ever win horse of the year but unfortunately that's the way it's going to shake out. Imagine you owned Blame. How would you feel if you beat one of the all time greats and they gave HOY to the horse you just beat. That would be totally unfair.

[The_Knight_Sky]

It's one of the wierdest statistical oddities I've ever seen
that she won't ever win horse of the year
but unfortunately that's the way it's going to shake out.




Sharp post. ;)

And I agree. Blame should get the nod for his 2010 performances.

[Jasonm921]

Blame fair and square.

[v j stauffer]

One way to say it would be all that SHE did for racing. Another way would be to point out what YOU FANS did for her and all of us in racing. The way YOU embraced her made the world stop and take note. What a horse does to promote the sport is vitally important but IS NOT criteria in the HOY voting equasion. She will be talked about for generations. Blame will only be known for beating her. But the fact of the matter based on what he achieved this year and the fact that he crossed this line in front of her in their only meeting Blame will win HOY. I wish she'd won. More so for us fans than anything else. She didn't. But on a positive note. No horse was hurt. The race was fairly run. Zenny's reputation was actually enhanced by her performance. I felt more proud of her in defeat than any of her wins. The greatest female horse of all time ran the BEST RACE of her career and was defeated fair and square. I choose to rejoice in what happened today. Great theatre. Great horses. Great day. Oh BTW I'll never forgive that damm BLAME :mad:

[RXB]

The award is for horse of the year. This year. Blame will have finished this year 4 for 5 and won the BC Classic. Zenyatta will have finished the year 5 for 6 and finished second in the BC Classic. It's one of the wierdest statistical oddities I've ever seen that she won't ever win horse of the year but unfortunately that's the way it's going to shake out. Imagine you owned Blame. How would you feel if you beat one of the all time greats and they gave HOY to the horse you just beat. That would be totally unfair.

I would vote for Blame.

[PhantomOnTour]

The thing is, Zenyatta probably is the 'horse' of the year, but she wasn't allowed (by her owners) to compete in the proper races and earn the proper credentials so that a narrow loss in the Classic wouldn't cost her the award.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Blame should win. Don't forget that Personal Ensign never won HOY either yet no one doubts her greatness.

[tucker6]

Blame fair and square.Ditto. Blame is the easy choice. He proved it throughout the year, and when it counted the most. If they had gone another furlong last night, he would still have been in front. He showed the true grit of a champion yesterday.

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59778/heartbreaking-thriller-blame-beats-zenyatta

Excerpt:

Asked to comment on who should win the honor during the post-race news conference, he responded, "Well, I thought the battle for Horse of the Year was fought about a half hour ago, and Blame won it. I mean, she's a great horse, Zenyatta is. But she had her shot to get by, and she didn't do it. So I don't think you can vote for her. I don't know who else you could vote for.

"I mean, he's won three great ones," Hancock added. "He's taken his show on the road. He's done everything that's been asked of him. I can't believe that he wouldn't be horse of the year. "

[TheGrandDesign]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59778/heartbreaking-thriller-blame-beats-zenyatta

Excerpt:

Asked to comment on who should win the honor during the post-race news conference, he responded, "Well, I thought the battle for Horse of the Year was fought about a half hour ago, and Blame won it. I mean, she's a great horse, Zenyatta is. But she had her shot to get by, and she didn't do it. So I don't think you can vote for her. I don't know who else you could vote for.

"I mean, he's won three great ones," Hancock added. "He's taken his show on the road. He's done everything that's been asked of him. I can't believe that he wouldn't be horse of the year. "
He failed to mention his bad lost to Haynesfield who couldnt be found with a search warrant yesterday,he beat QR who also couldnt be found with a search warrant,HOY should be split.

[Jasonm921]

I wouldnt go there. Zenyatta's competition ran in the filly and mare sprint. So I would forget that argument.

[depalma113]

He failed to mention his bad lost to Haynesfield who couldnt be found with a search warrant yesterday,he beat QR who also couldnt be found with a search warrant,HOY should be split.

It's opinion's like this that make me thankfully that horse racing is paramutuel and not against the house.

He buried Haynesfield by 11 1/2 lengths at Saratoga going a mile and an eighth.

He lost to him when that one got loose on the lead in a paceless race on a track that the horse was 4 for 5 lifetime on that track going into the race.

This race was loaded with pace. It was an absolute given Haynesfield was going to get crushed. The race was all wrong for him.

[Bullet Plane]

Blame proved he was the best horse in the world all year long. Different tracks, distances. He is top dog.

[cj]

Blame proved he was the best horse in the world all year long. Different tracks, distances. He is top dog.

I'm not going to pretend Blame was some Iron Horse touring the country taking on all comers. He was the best in a weak year. Agree? What did he run, 5 whole times?

[Tom]

Blame proved he was the best horse in the world all year long. Different tracks, distances. He is top dog.

I still get chills up my spine when I watch replays of what he did to Haynsefield. Awesome performance.

[Bullet Plane]

I'm not going to pretend Blame was some Iron Horse touring the country taking on all comers. He was the best in a weak year. Agree? What did he run, 5 whole times?

Agree. Already said this in another post. But, still makes him the best.

[TheGrandDesign]

I still get chills up my spine when I watch replays of what he did to Haynsefield. Awesome performance.
I get chills up my spine watching Haynesfield destroy the field in the gold cup.Awesome performance.Now they have beaten each other.

[chickenhead]

it tough for me to really like Blame, but he earned it. Might not get it, but he earned it. Either way works for me.

I thought I liked LaL, but I found myself very happy she ran by him like he was tied to a fence post. Apparently I wasn't much of a fan of his, after all. So all things considered, between Blame, LaL, and QR, I'm glad Blame won.

[TheGrandDesign]

Let's see...

On the one hand you have Blame, winner of the Stephen Foster, Whitney and BC Classic with a second in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

On the other hand you have Zenyatta, winner of five restricted Grade 1s in California and a second in the BC Classic.

Ummmm...this should be a no brainer I would think. Not sure how any self respecting turf writer from either coast could vote for Zenyatta, but stranger things have happened I suppose.
PA,wasnt RA's campaign last year restricted to 3 year olds except for her Woodward where she held off the on coming powerful MAcho Again?

[cj]

PA,wasnt RA's campaign last year restricted to 3 year olds except for her Woodward where she held off the on coming powerful MAcho Again?

Make sure to post the next time a filly wins the Oaks by 20, crushes future G1 winning females repeatedly, beats colts twice in the Haskell and the Preakness, then finishes it of with a win over older colts in a G1.

[Robert Goren]

Blame gets it. It was decide yesterday on the track, just like it is suppose to be.

[andymays]

Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves Horse of the Year - Thoroughbred Times

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/november/07/zenyatta-recap.aspx

Excerpt:

Shirreffs, who trains the six-year-old Street Cry (Ire) for Jerry and Ann Moss, said three weeks before the Breeders’ Cup that it would be a “slap in the face” if Zenyatta retired without a Horse of the Year trophy.
-------------------------------------

http://www.drf.com/news/loss-doesnt-diminish-zenyattas-popularity

Excerpt:

Shirreffs said he still believed Zenyatta should be Horse of the Year.

“Oh yes,” he said. “She’s done so much for the business. That would be an appropriate reward.”

[TheGrandDesign]

Make sure to post the next time a filly wins the Oaks by 20, crushes future G1 winning females repeatedly, beats colts twice in the Haskell and the Preakness, then finishes it of with a win over older colts in a G1.
CJ make sure to post the 3 horse field in the Mother Goose,the preakness the runnerup was MTB who hasnt won a race in a year,the haskell? didnt the SPRINTER Munnings run in that race.Forgot to mention the great Persistently,and who could forget Zardana...
RA wasnt even on the same planet as Zenyatta case close.

[BluegrassProf]

CJ make sure to post the 3 horse field in the Mother Goose,the preakness the runnerup was MTB who hasnt won a race in a year,the haskell? didnt the SPRINTER Munnings run in that race.Forgot to mention the great Persistently,and who could forget Zardana...
RA wasnt even on the same planet as Zenyatta case close. :D Dude. Give it up.

Either go with another tactic, or another conversation entirely...you're straight on a path to really embarrassing yourself.

[cj]

CJ make sure to post the 3 horse field in the Mother Goose,the preakness the runnerup was MTB who hasnt won a race in a year,the haskell? didnt the SPRINTER Munnings run in that race.Forgot to mention the great Persistently,and who could forget Zardana...
RA wasnt even on the same planet as Zenyatta case close.

What does Persistently have to do with 2009?

Plenty of good horses came out of those other races. If I were you, I'd move on to complaining about not winning the 2010 HOY, or revert to 2008 when she actually deserved it.

[cj]

Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves Horse of the Year - Thoroughbred Times



Old news Andy, what does he say now?

[andymays]

Old news Andy, what does he say now?

They are both quotes after the race.

[cj]

They are both quotes after the race.

You added to it with edit.

Shirreffs should get the Donald Duck award, or the Sylvester Award for bei...never mind.

[cj]

CJ make sure to post the 3 horse field in the Mother Goose,the preakness the runnerup was MTB who hasnt won a race in a year,the haskell? didnt the SPRINTER Munnings run in that race.Forgot to mention the great Persistently,and who could forget Zardana...
RA wasnt even on the same planet as Zenyatta case close.

Are you still upset about dahoss smacking you down in that contest?

[PhantomOnTour]

Are you still upset about dahoss smacking you down in that contest?
Whoa CJ....i think you're right. Never dawned on me. The grammar is a giveaway :)

[FenceBored]

CJ make sure to post the 3 horse field in the Mother Goose,the preakness the runnerup was MTB who hasnt won a race in a year,the haskell? didnt the SPRINTER Munnings run in that race.Forgot to mention the great Persistently,and who could forget Zardana...
RA wasnt even on the same planet as Zenyatta case close.

http://www.rubberrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Troll.jpg

[Stillriledup]

The award is for horse of the year. This year. Blame will have finished this year 4 for 5 and won the BC Classic. Zenyatta will have finished the year 5 for 6 and finished second in the BC Classic. It's one of the wierdest statistical oddities I've ever seen that she won't ever win horse of the year but unfortunately that's the way it's going to shake out. Imagine you owned Blame. How would you feel if you beat one of the all time greats and they gave HOY to the horse you just beat. That would be totally unfair.

It wouldnt be unfair, because the award is horse of the year, not horse of the BC Classic. If it was HOTBCC than yes, it would be unfair, but it is horse of the year. The problem i have with Blame is he was a no-show in NY in October and ran lackluster and lost by a boatload of lengths in uncompetitive fashion. Zenyatta lost to one horse this year and Blame lost to one horse this year...but, the horse Z lost to is far superior than the horse Blame lost to.

I just want my HOY candidate to actually 'show up' in all their starts for the year. Blame had 5 starts and was a no show in 20 percent of them. I know he got 2nd, but he was horrible in there, had no real run and was never competitive for the win.

In the end, Blame will probably win, but i'd love to see him lose though.

[cj]

Zenyatta lost to one horse this year and Blame lost to one horse this year...but, the horse Z lost to is far superior than the horse Blame lost to.



Huh? She lost to HIM! It isn't like he ran 9th in his loss. 1 1/4m at Belmont is a strange race and produces weird results not reproduced in the future many times.

He beat all the same horses she beat. She beat nothing in any other race.

[Stillriledup]

Here's another factor that nobody is going to consider. The horse of the year trophy should go to the BEST horse. The public feels that Z is better than Blame. If Blame and Z raced 30 days from now at Churchill Downs at a mile and a quarter in a field of 10 or 11 horses, Zenyatta would be 3-5 and Blame would be 5-2, even knowing what we know now. The public would, with their dollars, vote Z as the better horse. Its sort of like the BCS in college football. You could have teams ranked 1-2 in a bowl game, but the #2 team could be a 7 pt favorite.

If Blame wins the HOY, and right now, it looks like he's got it locked up, he will be winning the HOY as not the best horse of his year. Blame won the photo, but i can't imagine there are too many people who think he's the actual best horse of 2010.

[Grits]

:D Dude. Give it up.

Either go with another tactic, or another conversation entirely...you're straight on a path to really embarrassing yourself.

I've got a gut feeling this is another one who doesn't have sense enough to know when he's embarrassing himself. Walked in owning the game, and hasn't made a reasonably significant post yet.:faint: What a hoot.

[cj]

Here's another factor that nobody is going to consider. The horse of the year trophy should go to the BEST horse. The public feels that Z is better than Blame. If Blame and Z raced 30 days from now at Churchill Downs at a mile and a quarter in a field of 10 or 11 horses, Zenyatta would be 3-5 and Blame would be 5-2, even knowing what we know now. The public would, with their dollars, vote Z as the better horse. Its sort of like the BCS in college football. You could have teams ranked 1-2 in a bowl game, but the #2 team could be a 7 pt favorite.

If Blame wins the HOY, and right now, it looks like he's got it locked up, he will be winning the HOY as not the best horse of his year. Blame won the photo, but i can't imagine there are too many people who think he's the actual best horse of 2010.

Seems silly to me. Both ran their race. Both had clean trips. One horse was just a tiny bit better than the other. If the pace is any slower, Zenyatta would have less chance of beating Blame. He is more adaptable and has more tactical speed, and a better rider. Every 1/5 slower reduces her chances. Faster would help, but it would never be any faster.

[tucker6]

If Blame wins the HOY, and right now, it looks like he's got it locked up, he will be winning the HOY as not the best horse of his year. Blame won the photo, but i can't imagine there are too many people who think he's the actual best horse of 2010.I absolutely believe he's the best American horse of 2010. Who is better based on record and head-to-head?? Your statement is emotional, not rational.

[Stillriledup]

I absolutely believe he's the best American horse of 2010. Who is better based on record and head-to-head?? Your statement is emotional, not rational.

If he raced vs Z at CD thirty days from now, she would be favored (by a lot), how can you say he's the better horse?

[tucker6]

It wouldnt be unfair, because the award is horse of the year, not horse of the BC Classic. If it was HOTBCC than yes, it would be unfair, but it is horse of the year. The problem i have with Blame is he was a no-show in NY in October and ran lackluster and lost by a boatload of lengths in uncompetitive fashion. Zenyatta lost to one horse this year and Blame lost to one horse this year...but, the horse Z lost to is far superior than the horse Blame lost to.

I just want my HOY candidate to actually 'show up' in all their starts for the year. Blame had 5 starts and was a no show in 20 percent of them. I know he got 2nd, but he was horrible in there, had no real run and was never competitive for the win.

In the end, Blame will probably win, but i'd love to see him lose though.You make no logical sense. You need to step away from the keyboard and realize what you are saying. It's nonsensical.

[cj]

If he raced vs Z at CD thirty days from now, she would be favored (by a lot), how can you say he's the better horse?

The public was wrong yesterday, and they'd be wrong again in 30 days.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If he raced vs Z at CD thirty days from now, she would be favored (by a lot), how can you say he's the better horse?

Match race?

[tucker6]

If he raced vs Z at CD thirty days from now, she would be favored (by a lot), how can you say he's the better horse?How in the hell does the odds on a race indicate who the better horse is. It's what the oddsmakers feel balances the money. No more, no less. The oddsmaker cares less who wins and loses as long as they win the most money.

Zenyatta should have been 8/5 to 2/1, but because they knew the public would be buying tickets for Ebay, they lowered the price to 3/5. Does that say they believe she's really 3/5?? They did it to balance out the money.

[FenceBored]

It wouldnt be unfair, because the award is horse of the year, not horse of the BC Classic. If it was HOTBCC than yes, it would be unfair, but it is horse of the year. The problem i have with Blame is he was a no-show in NY in October and ran lackluster and lost by a boatload of lengths in uncompetitive fashion. Zenyatta lost to one horse this year and Blame lost to one horse this year...but, the horse Z lost to is far superior than the horse Blame lost to.

I just want my HOY candidate to actually 'show up' in all their starts for the year. Blame had 5 starts and was a no show in 20 percent of them. I know he got 2nd, but he was horrible in there, had no real run and was never competitive for the win.

In the end, Blame will probably win, but i'd love to see him lose though.

Um, yeah.

But, I'd like my HOY candidate to have actually, ya know, like beat somebody, too.

There are 14 open G1s for older males in the US this year. Of the 12 that have been run Blame has now won 3 of them, and beaten the winners of 4 more (including the other 3 G1 winner Quality Road twice). He never faced BC Dirt Mile winner Dakota Phone or the CA G1 winners. The winners of the 4 California races haven't faced a G1 field outside California. The winner of the Big Cap hasn't raced since. The winner of the Hollywood Gold Cup ran 7th in the BC Marathon. The winner of the Pacific Classic and Goodwood is pointing for Dubai and didn't come to the BC. So, I'd have to say that Blame is the dominant horse of the Handicap Division.


Zenyatta has won 0 of those 14 open G1s and beaten the winners of 0 of them. In fact, Zenyatta has not won a race this year in which she's beaten someone who's won any G1 this year.

Tain't close by that measure.

[Stevie Belmont]

Zenyatta should be.

She has been a victim of unfortunate circumstances over the past two years. This year Blame will be. The girl has to have that HOTY attached to her name at least once.

[tucker6]

Zenyatta should be.

She has been a victim of unfortunate circumstances over the past two years. This year Blame will be. The girl has to have that HOTY attached to her name at least once.Why is Blame an "unfortunate circumstance"?? Why does Zenyatta "have" to have HOY attached to her name?? Why does she have to be a victim??

Maybe, just maybe, she wasn't raced by her connections correctly, and they left something in the barn each year that could have made her more worthy of HOY. She doesn't deserve it, and trying to correct the mistake the Moss's made is worse than having done nothing about it. Maybe next time the owner of a Zenyatta will realize that ducking the competition isn't rewarded with a sympathy vote.

[Steve R]

Z

Even though Blame beat her, he doesn't feel like the HOY.

She does.

Ought to be interesting.
He doesn't "feel" like Horse of the Year? :bang:

[depalma113]

It wouldnt be unfair, because the award is horse of the year, not horse of the BC Classic. If it was HOTBCC than yes, it would be unfair, but it is horse of the year. The problem i have with Blame is he was a no-show in NY in October and ran lackluster and lost by a boatload of lengths in uncompetitive fashion. Zenyatta lost to one horse this year and Blame lost to one horse this year...but, the horse Z lost to is far superior than the horse Blame lost to.

I just want my HOY candidate to actually 'show up' in all their starts for the year. Blame had 5 starts and was a no show in 20 percent of them. I know he got 2nd, but he was horrible in there, had no real run and was never competitive for the win.

In the end, Blame will probably win, but i'd love to see him lose though.

Blame was not a no show in October, he ran in a race that had lone speed that was loose on the lead. He closed into that lone speed. He ran pretty damn good based on that scenerio.

As for the betting public comment. I really like it when the ignorant public gives away free money. Even money was a joke.

[tucker6]

He doesn't "feel" like Horse of the Year? :bang:I have Aleve if you'd like some Steve. I already took mine.

[Steve R]

No one has considered that Zenyatta was getting three pounds from Blame even though she looks about twice his size in the video. If I remember correctly, racing secretaries have historically used one pound at 10f as equal to one length. The smaller horse giving weight has to be worth something in assessing his performance.

[keithw84]

While I wish HOY would go to a horse with more than 5 starts, Blame is most deserving this year. Hewon races against males, which Zenyatta did not do. Also, the horses he beat in races before the Classic weren't slouches - Fly Down, Quality Road, Haynesfield.

The fact that Zenyatta is even in the discussion shows how much the "of the year" is getting minimized.

As far as the older female division, one could argue Unrivaled Belle has beaten more than Zenyatta.

[oddsmaven]

The Classic carries a great deal of weight so last year I felt Zenyatta should've been HOY, although the surface issue and Rachel's series of big wins made it debatable. This year, I don't see the case for Zenyatta. Her connections were fully entitled to do as they chose which was to map out another do or die campaign that was only ambitious with the last race and she lost it. Heroically, but Blame won. Nothing wrong with that conservative approach, but there was nothing else to fall back on.

Blame did more than Z this year coming in & deserves to cinch it with the win. Not a lot of starts, but that is in keeping with the times now.

[nijinski]

They really should do a tie then this year , gotta give her due and if they
feel they can't overlook Blame just do both .

[horses4courses]

They really should do a tie then this year , gotta give her due and if they
feel they can't overlook Blame just do both .

I, and many others, felt the same way last year.

It just won't happen.

Ties don't occur in this country.......it's un-American.

[BluegrassProf]

They really should do a tie then this year...just do both.I, and many others, felt the same way last year.Ohdeargod. Please, not again. :faint:

Fin.

No mas.

H4C: Learn from your mistakes. Take a moment to think about the rationale behind the 2009 award, and perhaps this year's version won't look as shocking as you might think it to be.

Prohibiting a tie isn't unamerican (in fact, in a "you're all super-great!" society, it's quite the opposite!); it's objective, or at least ideally-so - particularly when that objectivity confirms what your good sense already told you. Use your choice of accomplishment-based standards: Blame is 2010 HotY. I'll defer any further comments on the matter to CJ, since his thoughts on the subject seem to mirror mine almost verbatim. Sorry, man... ;)

Zen was a thrill to watch, and all due respect for providing us with a whole boatload of drama. But this is a big ol' sport, and she has her place, for now and for all time - nothing will change that, for better or for worse...HotY be damned.

Here's to a great season and an even more exciting 2011... :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

Ohdeargod. Please, not again. :faint:

Fin.

No mas.

H4C: Learn from your mistakes. Take a moment to think about the rationale behind the 2009 award, and perhaps this year's version won't look as shocking as you might think it to be.

Prohibiting a tie isn't unamerican (in fact, in a "you're all super-great!" society, it's quite the opposite!); it's objective, or at least ideally-so - particularly when that objectivity confirms what your good sense already told you. Use your choice of accomplishment-based standards: Blame is 2010 HotY.

Here's to a great season and an even more exciting 2011... :ThmbUp:

As I stated earlier in this thread, my head says Blame, and my heart says Z.
I, contrary to your beliefs, have not made any mistake. This year, or last.

You seem a bit confused, my friend.
Prohibiting ties is most certainly the American way.
Name any sport, or contest with an electoral process, that allows ties in the US.
People in this nation are turned-off by ties - they always need a winner.

Chess is about as far as ties go over here, and if there was "American chess",
draws would be a thing of the past.

[keithw84]

Regarding the "Blame doesn't feel like HOTY," comment... I think Blame SHOULD be HOTY, and yet, I understand the sentiment.

Maybe it's because he wasn't a household name or well-known the whole year like LAL, QR, and of course, Z.

Maybe it's because of the way he grinds out wins. I am reminded of something Steve Asmussen said one time - that Curlin was very "blue collar" - just grinding out wins, while Rachel Alexandra was a "diva." I think Blame is kind of like Curlin in this regard. He puts in great performances, but they aren't flashy like many of Rachel's wins, not are they as dramatic as many of Zenyatta's.

That said, it shouldn't matter who feels like HOTY. There is an Eclipse Award that is based on feelings and it is "Moment of the Year"... and I imagine that award will go to "Zenyatta's quest for perfection" or something along those lines. Perhaps the video to represent that moment will be the fan (Carlonr?) chanting "ZEN-YA-TTA!"

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not going to pretend Blame was some Iron Horse touring the country taking on all comers. He was the best in a weak year. Agree? What did he run, 5 whole times?Rational objectivity is alive and well. And to think, some call you a biased village idiot... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

PA,wasnt RA's campaign last year restricted to 3 year olds except for her Woodward where she held off the on coming powerful MAcho Again?Yeah, but she won the exception.

[depalma113]

The problem the Zenyatta camp has with HOY is they said before the race she was better on dirt than synthetic. It was the absolute worst mistake they could have made.

[nijinski]

Goldi is amazing a true champ. She beats the boys at a mile on grass.
Grass champion yes , HOY no.
Filly's and Mares race against the boys much more often in Europe and
beat them in group 1 's Doesn't happen as much at classic distances on dirt.
That's what why we couldn't wait to see. Zenyatta on dirt .