I have to give Zenyatta her due. She's a Champ. Hats off to Blame

[andymays]

Zenyatta ran great. Much better than I expected. She is a great one. :ThmbUp:

Blame did the job and hats off to him.

Did anyone get the fractions? The pace seemed a little slow.

[rstone]

Amazing try by Zenyatta. I had 100 dollars to win on Blame and I found myself rooting for Zen to snipe him at the wire. Amazing race.

[slew101]

Great race. That's something no one will argue.

[gm10]

To go this close and not win is just deflating. That's racing :ThmbUp: .

[eastie]

wow, did you see how far back she was ? and still just missed. she is the bomb.:)

[bcgreg]

She is the Queen of Racing Today...even in defeat!

bcgreg

[PaceAdvantage]

She impressed me more today than ever before...she's a tremendous race horse and a tremendous mare.

[toussaud]

i am more impressed by that loss than all her wins. tip of the hat. i had blame and hell i was rooting for her to catch him

[andymays]

She impressed me more today than ever before...she's a tremendous race horse and a tremendous mare.

I feel the exact same way. :ThmbUp:

[HuggingTheRail]

I am 40 years old....50 years from now, I may be wearing diapers and drooling over myself, but I will still remember this race. That was un-bee-liev-ableee

[WinterTriangle]

That was a heart poundingly good race!

If Zenyatta couldn't win, I'm glad Stall got it. I've liked a lot of his horses and he deserves this.

At least nobody can say Zenyatta "can't run on dirt." ;) She did so good!

[ArlJim78]

heartbreaking, i screamed my lungs out. she put on quite a show, and she is great.

damn, if he could have found a smoother way through. oh well, thats racing when you're a come from behinder.

[Jasonm921]

i am more impressed by that loss than all her wins. tip of the hat. i had blame and hell i was rooting for her to catch him

Absolutely true. I was wrong.

[toussaud]

That was a heart poundingly good race!

If Zenyatta couldn't win, I'm glad Stall got it. I've liked a lot of his horses and he deserves this.

At least nobody can say Zenyatta "can't run on dirt." ;) She did so good!


i literary had to walk outside for air after the race. never felt like that before. GREAT race


no one in z's camp should hold their heads in shame today.

[johnhannibalsmith]

An amazing performance by Zenyatta... It's one thing to think at the 5/16ths that she has no shot when there are five turkeys to gun at... but that was really a tremendous effort...

[jognlope]

I'm sorry for Mike and the fans. She'd better get her Guinness.

[cpitt84]

heartbreaking, i screamed my lungs out. she put on quite a show, and she is great.

damn, if he could have found a smoother way through. oh well, thats racing when you're a come from behinder.

thats how i feel too

she shouldnt have been so far back..she almost made it! :mad:

[Bullet Plane]

Tremendous performance by Z!

She lost nothing in defeat... that's for sure.

[098poi]

Heartbreaking for sure and yet this is the one race where her champion colors really shined. I'm shaking right now.

[thespaah]

Zenyatta will be remembered as one of the great racehorses of all time.
She ran her guts out today. Not blaming Smith here, but I thought he had her unusually far off the lead.
In any event it was good to have a superstar horse.

[RXB]

She ran very well; easily beat all of the other horses, lost by a head to a good colt. In my mind she's a great mare. In a way I think I'm glad that she lost narrowly. And I'm happy for Stall.

It was a great, exciting finish and that's what racing is about.

[cj]

Zenyatta ran great. Much better than I expected. She is a great one. :ThmbUp:

Blame did the job and hats off to him.

Did anyone get the fractions? The pace seemed a little slow.

The pace was far from slow.

She was very good. She is what many of us thought that she is, a very good horse that was overrated because of the surface/schedule. There were no excuses today. I only wish she had been tested more often, because she certainly would have passed some of them.

[MickJ26]

Thank you Jerry Moss and thank you Zenyatta.

[tucker6]

damn, if he could have found a smoother way through. oh well, thats racing when you're a come from behinder.
I think she got a really good trip from Mike.

[horses4courses]

A great day for the sport..... :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Turkoman]

What a heartbreaking loss! In the stretch, I honestly thought she was going to pull it out. Several weeks ago, I said my pick was Blame, but Zenyatta ran her heart out today. She almost got there, but just missed. She's definitely a great one.

Turkoman

[Valuist]

In the exacta pool, Zenyatta was between 3-2 and 8-5. I think its safe to assume the sentimentalists were getting their $2 win tickets and not betting her in the exactas. The difference between 8-5 and 4-5 is giant.

[Charlie D]

Fantastic race,, I wish she had done it, because that effort deserved it imho.

[gm10]

Mike Smith didn't have an easy task and I'm not sure he made that many mistakes. Zenyatta was the best horse in the race but Blame got the jump on her and then it becomes very difficult to run him down, epecially when you have to wait for the gaps to appear.

One thing I know for sure is that she will never be the same mare again. Mike Smith destroyed her with his whip a la Borel on RA last year. It's likely that this has soured her on racing for good.

[fast4522]

The big girl ran her eyeballs out and came home safe, more than I could ask for. I am only sad a little because I think she knew she got beat. I will enjoy it when they make a movie for her if they ever do.

[ArlJim78]

I think she got a really good trip from Mike.
after watching the replay a couple of times, I agree.

[HuggingTheRail]

After a race like that, it makes me wonder if they will consider racing her once more....

[Stillriledup]

Zenyatta is a great champion. What a race.



I've paid my dues -
Time after time -
I've done my sentence
But committed no crime -
And bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sand kicked in my face -
But I've come through

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world -

I've taken my bows
And my curtain calls -
You brought me fame and fortune and everything that goes with it
-
I thank you all -

But it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise -
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race -
And I ain't gonna lose -

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world

[cpitt84]

Smith, who was in tears, said: "It was a little struggle for me early as she surprised me in that she didn't get a hold of the ground.

"If we'd got a better position it would have been a different outcome because I was on the best horse in the race, trust me.

"I'm overwhelmed with emotion because I just feel that I have let her down and it is all too much to take.

"The crowd was roaring so hard that she pricked her ears."

[Tom]

after watching the replay a couple of times, I agree.

He's saying it was his fault she lost.
I don't agree.

[cj]

Mike Smith didn't have an easy task and I'm not sure he made that many mistakes. Zenyatta was the best horse in the race but Blame got the jump on her and then it becomes very difficult to run him down, epecially when you have to wait for the gaps to appear.

One thing I know for sure is that she will never be the same mare again. Mike Smith destroyed her with his whip a la Borel on RA last year. It's likely that this has soured her on racing for good.

The view from the blimp completely contradicts this post. Her trip was fine. Why is she the best horse, because she has no early speed unlike Blame? Neither had to wait at all, very clean runs.

She ran great, please don't belittle her effort with lame excuses.

[davefulche]

Heart-stopping race. I bombed out on the betting earlier in the card and decided to just sit back and watch. Rooted harder for Zen than I have on couple K pick 3's and 4's. Today's race impressed me more than anything. I actually feel for Mike Smith.....has to be heartbroken. I am not a huge Mike Smith fan and never have been, but wanted him to get there so bad. Great race...that's what its all about.

[bigmack]

She was very good. She is what many of us thought that she is, a very good horse that was overrated because of the surface/schedule. There were no excuses today. I only wish she had been tested more often, because she certainly would have passed some of them.
So much for your prediction on the call of the race and blame being put on "The Rockies" :rolleyes:
...and Zenyatter a well beaten 6th.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Oh man.I'm a mess.I have enjoyed this girl's run.Today I did not think she was good enough on dirt vs a pretty solid field.I just didn't think she was fast enough on this surface.I saw that move she put on,stood up like a shot,not giving a rat's a$s about my tickets and said "She's gonna do it,go,go,go,go!".

Immediate tears and a surge of emotion.She was good enough enough,on dirt,vs big boys,it was her distance.I can't help but think about what might have been had the record not been the loftier goal.She could have been the best handicap horse in the country for years,maybe a defeat here or there.

But whatever,she was good enough,and she just missed by a jump.She proved she is a champ to any doubters IMO.What a racehorse.And it was sad to see her walk off,looking confused that she wasn't in the winner's circle.

I am objective,but not an unsentimental horseplayer.I'm pretty heartbroken right now.But man what gal.I'll miss her.Cheers girl,this one's for you!!:)

[cpitt84]

Ultimately, the traffic weaving and the lengths back sealed her fate.

[bcgreg]

One thing I know for sure is that she will never be the same mare again. Mike Smith destroyed her with his whip a la Borel on RA last year. It's likely that this has soured her on racing for good.

I do not post often but I just cannot resist...

I WISH TO HELL YOU WOULD SHUT UP!

bcgreg

[Pick6]

The view from the blimp completely contradicts this post. Her trip was fine. Why is she the best horse, because she has no early speed unlike Blame? Neither had to wait at all, very clean runs.

She ran great, please don't belittle her effort with lame excuses.
You can only give up so much ground early on. It was obvious today she gave up WAY too much ground early on.

When she got it in gear, she was clearly the best of the bunch. But it's who finishes first that matters. Racing.

[GregReinhart]

I just hope it doesn't get "lost in the shuffle" that Blame won the race. I give all the credit in the world to Zenyatta, she ran a great race, but just like he did in his other G1 wins this year, Blame found a way to get to the wire first.

[jognlope]

I got the 10 cent superfecta but it's a blah win, $48, very blah, because I would have rather taken $4 for Zenyatta to win.

[JimG]

Zenyatta got beat by a better horse today. However, her connections have nothing to be ashamed of.

Jim

[pandy]

Zenyatta ran great. Much better than I expected. She is a great one. :ThmbUp:

Blame did the job and hats off to him.

Did anyone get the fractions? The pace seemed a little slow.

Kudos to you Andy. I gave the race out with Zenyatta over Blame and I thought the exacta paid pretty good. I personally think that Blame is not only an outstanding horse but potentially a great horse, but they'll probably retire him because that's what racing is these days.

Zenyatta was amazing. I saw Ruffian run twice in person and thought I'd never see a filly that could match her but I Zenyatta is as good if not better. Blame ran a huge race, these two ran away from the other horses.

[Force of One]

Personally, I think it's a borderline disgrace how much the TV commentators took away from BLAME'S great performance.

Yes, Zenyatta ran a hell of a race....yes, she's a great champ - but she lost.

The trip didn't do her in. Smith didn't blow it. Watch the gallop out - she never passes Blame. I'm watching TVG and Ron Ellis is going on about how she just missed by a couple of inches. Hey, Ron - a couple more inches I could be a porn star.

I'm sure all the Zenyatta people are disappointed, but so are 10 other connections who lost the Classic and haven't had CLOSE to the amount of unrequited success the Z camp had. Get over it.

[Tom]

No excuses. She got beat. It happens.
I think she proved herself in defeat.
She was superior to most of the other so-called great dirt horses.

[bcgreg]

I just hope it doesn't get "lost in the shuffle" that Blame won the race. I give all the credit in the world to Zenyatta, she ran a great race, but just like he did in his other G1 wins this year, Blame found a way to get to the wire first.

Agreed...Blame is the real deal. He should have many more trips to the WC...but for racing today, and tomorrow...I wish the gal had gotten there first.

bcgreg

[Charlie D]

No excuses. She got beat. It happens.
I think she proved herself in defeat.
She was superior to most of the other so-called great dirt horses.


Couldn't agree more Tom

[blind squirrel]

Queen Z....GOTTA LOVE HER!

[tzipi]

The trip didn't do her in. Smith didn't blow it. Watch the gallop out - she never passes Blame.

You're right, she never did. I went back to watch the gallop out to see if Zen just blew by Blame after the wire but she didn't. Blame stayed on.

[delayjf]

I think she got a really good trip from Mike.

Mike did all he could to get her through but lost valuable time waiting to get clear, Blame had a cleaner trip and showed a lot of heart holding her off. That was the difference in the race.

I'm literally sick.

[Shelby]

*SIGH* :(

[pandy]

Mike did a great job as usual, that's the way she runs. Blame ran a monster race and beat one of the all time greats. This race will be talked about for centuries. It amazes me when a horse always fires like that, even most great horses have dull races, but Zenyatta always shows up.

[Shelby]

Mike is awesome :):)

I'm not a jockey so I have no idea how to ride. All I know is the track was damn fast on the outside (IMO) and Blame just was a bit faster--or has a dang longer nose lol!

[098poi]

Personally, I think it's a borderline disgrace how much the TV commentators took away from BLAME'S great performance.

Yes, Zenyatta ran a hell of a race....yes, she's a great champ - but she lost.

The trip didn't do her in. Smith didn't blow it. Watch the gallop out - she never passes Blame. I'm watching TVG and Ron Ellis is going on about how she just missed by a couple of inches. Hey, Ron - a couple more inches I could be a porn star.

I'm sure all the Zenyatta people are disappointed, but so are 10 other connections who lost the Classic and haven't had CLOSE to the amount of unrequited success the Z camp had. Get over it.

I could give a rat's ass about the commentators but I was a bit put off with Trevor (and I am a big Trevor fan) who right after the finish was already saying how much Z had to overcome and on and on. I think he could reserve some of his comments for a while and give the winner his moment in the sun.

[foregoforever]

Much different race, but I have that "Slew in the JCGC" sort of feeling.

[exactatom]

While never being much of a fan, I must admit she showed me of how much of a champion she was today. I hope she runs once more so she can go out a champion and get one more champion's send off.

[cpitt84]

Its just so tough to see her win all the time and having this faith she'll get there. To not see it is just so disappointing.

[Force of One]

I could give a rat's ass about the commentators but I was a bit put off with Trevor (and I am a big Trevor fan) who right after the finish was already saying how much Z had to overcome and on and on. I think he could reserve some of his comments for a while and give the winner his moment in the sun.

Great point.

[Charli125]

Fantastic race. I was impressed again with Blame. I don't think being so far back hurt Z at all. I think Blame was just game enough to hold her off. Incredible job by Blame.

If Z got the perfect trip, then I think she would've won. She had to go wide around a few horses in front and that's all she lost by. That being said, you can't expect the dream trip every time.

I wish she would've won, but that was an incredible race to watch!

[point given]

Zenyatta got beat by a better horse today. However, her connections have nothing to be ashamed of.

Jim

Ashamed ????????? Never,............. Disappointed , yeah, alot .

[gm10]

The view from the blimp completely contradicts this post. Her trip was fine. Why is she the best horse, because she has no early speed unlike Blame? Neither had to wait at all, very clean runs.

She ran great, please don't belittle her effort with lame excuses.

Ah man I am not in the mood for your underhand provocations. Especially from the Quality Road backer who for months claimed that she wouldn't even run in the race and for years has been telling us that she was overrated. If you so desperately want to be right about it, then please enjoy this moment, no she didn't win, and no she didn't have the best early speed and no her late speed wasn't enough to mow down a very good horse. Good night.

[cpitt84]

watching smith's Press conference..so sad.

"its my fault. she should have won."

[WinterTriangle]

She ran great, please don't belittle her effort with lame excuses.

The way she ran is her running style.

Mike or anyone else on the planet was not going to change that at this late date.

Eh. I'm sure the jocks are pretty worn out from the weekend, and Mike's been on a high with her, he needs some time to unwind, rest and get some perspective. They both did just fine.

[cj]

Ah man I am not in the mood for your underhand provocations. Especially from the Quality Road backer who for months claimed that she wouldn't even run in the race and for years has been telling us that she was overrated. If you so desperately want to be right about it, then please enjoy this moment, no she didn't win, and no she didn't have the best early speed and no her late speed wasn't enough to mow down a very good horse. Good night.

Provocations? She was very good, but the trip was good. What beat her was her total lack of early speed and a dirt surface.

My only real disappointment is that she wasn't tested more often.

[PaceAdvantage]

The view from the blimp completely contradicts this post. Her trip was fine. Why is she the best horse, because she has no early speed unlike Blame? Neither had to wait at all, very clean runs.

She ran great, please don't belittle her effort with lame excuses.I have to agree completely. And this nonsense of how Mike Smith has now ruined her. Where do people get this crap from?

I thought EVERY HORSE WAS UNIQUE...an INDIVIDUAL. Who knows how she will react...we'll probably never know, but to assume Mike Smith just destroyed her is the height of lunacy.

[PaceAdvantage]

You can only give up so much ground early on. It was obvious today she gave up WAY too much ground early on.

When she got it in gear, she was clearly the best of the bunch. But it's who finishes first that matters. Racing.Lame. You know who gave up a lot of ground? Goldikova.

Zenyatta did not give up a lot of ground. Zenyatta ran her race and got her pace. My only thinking is she broke horribly slow, even for her.

Perhaps if her connections weren't so (dare I say) cocky, they would have brought her into Churchill for a race BEFORE the Breeders' Cup Classic, and today's finish would have been reversed...she actually looked like she didn't know where she was early on...

[cj]

The way she ran is her running style.

Mike or anyone else on the planet was not going to change that at this late date.

Eh. I'm sure the jocks are pretty worn out from the weekend, and Mike's been on a high with her, he needs some time to unwind, rest and get some perspective. They both did just fine.

Of course it is her style. Smith rode great, better than usual and the trip was fine. Her lack of speed is exactly what many predicted would get her beat on dirt despite her trainers guess that she is better on the surface. Believe it or not, a lot of us have watched thousands more races over many years than even the most successful trainers. We know a thing or two about racing and what works.

[PaceAdvantage]

Much different race, but I have that "Slew in the JCGC" sort of feeling.Do NOT even go there... :lol:

[Beachbabe]

Fantastic race,, I wish she had done it, because that effort deserved it imho.


My sentiments exactly.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ah man I am not in the mood for your underhand provocations. Especially from the Quality Road backer who for months claimed that she wouldn't even run in the race and for years has been telling us that she was overrated. If you so desperately want to be right about it, then please enjoy this moment, no she didn't win, and no she didn't have the best early speed and no her late speed wasn't enough to mow down a very good horse. Good night.Looks like you are the one looking for a confrontation with this garbage. We're doing nothing but giving her credit and you appear to be looking for payback. Good night indeed.

[Pick6]

My only thinking is she broke horribly slow, even for her.
So you say it, then it's true? Thanks.

[WinterTriangle]

If Z got the perfect trip, then I think she would've won.

Goodness. She got the perfect trip.......The now-famous Zenyatta trip: perfect for her is the trip she usually gets, which is to lose contact with the field for 12+ lengths. :D THAT is her running style.

I'm just glad to see she is "the same" whether on dirt, or poly. That was a question a lot of people had, and it was answered.

Sports is about winning/losing. Anyone who has played on a team in sports is pretty comfortable with that. You give your best, so you are not going to jump off a bridge or anything because you didn't win. (at least, that's how it seems to happen in the real world I live in.)

I hope mike is not going to whip himself like some monk doing penance. Ditto, Zenyatta fans. It really is a "bad read."

I would like to go visit her next year if and when she retires. I have stuff to LOOK FORWARD TO. And more racing, of course.

[Shelby]

watching smith's Press conference..so sad.

"its my fault. she should have won."

Oh man, I was afraid of this. Mike is NOT to blame (wow bad word to pick lol) Any horse that wins like Zenyatta is a champion!!!

[gm10]

I have to agree completely. And this nonsense of how Mike Smith has now ruined her. Where do people get this crap from?

I thought EVERY HORSE WAS UNIQUE...an INDIVIDUAL. Who knows how she will react...we'll probably never know, but to assume Mike Smith just destroyed her is the height of lunacy.

No horse wants to get whacked about. When it happens 20 times in a race, chances are she'll fall out of love with the game.

[cj]

No horse wants to get whacked about. When it happens 20 times in a race, chances are she'll fall out of love with the game.

Maybe had she been tested against real horses this wouldn't have been necessary.

[Tom]

I thought it was the lights?

[PaceAdvantage]

So you say it, then it's true? Thanks.This was very helpful. I see where this is going, and I'm quite fine with it actually.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Lame. You know who gave up a lot of ground? Goldikova.

Zenyatta did not give up a lot of ground. Zenyatta ran her race and got her pace. My only thinking is she broke horribly slow, even for her.

Perhaps if her connections weren't so (dare I say) cocky, they would have brought her into Churchill for a race BEFORE the Breeders' Cup Classic, and today's finish would have been reversed...she actually looked like she didn't know where she was early on...

Your bottom comment is right on and Smith said as much.It was right there to see.It was like she didn't know what was underneath her feet for just over a 1/4 mile.Mike wasn't pulling her up but she was clopping along and putting her head up until they hit the turn and she started to hit stride.It looked very awkward and he weaved his way through traffic very smoothly I thought.A little more experience and training on the surface and this never happens.

[cj]

So you say it, then it's true? Thanks.

I told PA I personally think she broke exactly like she has all year. I'll have to watch replays. However, with her style, there is no way to know if it mattered in the least even if it was slow.

[toussaud]

she broke like normal but she was unusually far back even for her. she was pretty dang far back.

[PaceAdvantage]

she broke like normal but she was unusually far back even for her. she was pretty dang far back.Maybe I should clarify...she seemed to be running a helluva lot more slowly than usual in the first quarter mile.

Almost looked like it was going to be Life At Ten all over again for a moment there...

[Light]

She is simply the best. I don't know any other horse,male or female in the history of the sport that can be over 20 lengths behind against the best Grade 1 horses and lose by only a nose. Immortal.

[Pick6]

This was very helpful. I see where this is going, and I'm quite fine with it actually.
Me also. Thanks again.

[fast4522]

Zenyatta got beat by a better horse today. However, her connections have nothing to be ashamed of.

Jim

Exactly!

[Pick6]

Maybe I should clarify...she seemed to be running a helluva lot more slowly than usual in the first quarter mile.

Almost looked like it was going to be Life At Ten all over again for a moment there...
But she did not give up too much ground early on.

[Charli125]

Goodness. She got the perfect trip.......The now-famous Zenyatta trip: perfect for her is the trip she usually gets, which is to lose contact with the field for 12+ lengths. :D THAT is her running style.


It was the standard trip Z trip until she had to go around a bit of traffic. Not saying it was a bad trip, it certainly was not. Just that it wasn't perfect, and she needed an absolutely perfect trip to win today. The start didn't have anything to do with the result IMO, and she got a good trip, but it could've been better.

[delayjf]

but the trip was good.

IMO it was not a horrible trip, but he did run into traffic entering the stretch and lost enough momentum working her way outside to make at least one foot of distance. Blame on the other had a perfect trip was able to run unimpeded the length of the stretch. Blame definitely showed heart holding Zenyatta off, reminded me of Sunday Silence.

[Pick6]

she broke like normal but she was unusually far back even for her. she was pretty dang far back.
Official call was 16 1/4 lengths behind at the 1/4. Denman said 20, I believe. It looked about 20 to me.

[bcgreg]

I gave her zero chance ITM rounding the turn for home...and she misses by a head! Blame ran a super race and deserves tremendous accolades!

For me, it sometimes comes down to emotional stances instead of analytical substance. I really wanted Zen to win, even tho my money was elsewhere. CJ...I love your figures, and your posts...but, for me, it isn't always about figures, if you know what I mean.

I hope this race goes down as one of the best in history. It was for me...

Regards,
bcgreg

[cj]

she broke like normal but she was unusually far back even for her. she was pretty dang far back.

Well, of course she was. The pace was about 20-25 lengths faster than what she has faced this year.

[Marshall Bennett]

Mike Smith went to the well once too often and paid for it. Can't ride stupid and win forever. Zenyatta's a much better horse than Mike ever rode her. Greatness could have never been less served.

[Robert Goren]

Maybe I should clarify...she seemed to be running a helluva lot more slowly than usual in the first quarter mile.

Almost looked like it was going to be Life At Ten all over again for a moment there... I thought the same thing.

[cj]

I gave her zero chance ITM rounding the turn for home...and she misses by a head! Blame ran a super race and deserves tremendous accolades!

For me, it sometimes comes down to emotional stances instead of analytical substance. I really wanted Zen to win, even tho my money was elsewhere. CJ...I love your figures, and your posts...but, for me, it isn't always about figures, if you know what I mean.

I hope this race goes down as one of the best in history. It was for me...

Regards,
bcgreg

It was certainly a great race I enjoyed a lot, no matter which horse won. I'll remember it for a long time.

[cpitt84]

She is simply the best. I don't know any other horse,male or female in the history of the sport that can be over 20 lengths behind against the best Grade 1 horses and lose by only a nose. Immortal.

that's a good point.

She ran past the top males of the country and lost to blame by a nose. I'll miss you Zenyatta! She tried so hard..

[cj]

She is simply the best. I don't know any other horse,male or female in the history of the sport that can be over 20 lengths behind against the best Grade 1 horses and lose by only a nose. Immortal.

Yeah, its never happened before...ROFL.

[Pick6]

Well, of course she was. The pace was about 20-25 lengths faster than what she has faced this year.
47.14 is really burning it up. That would be, what, 52 second 1/2s in her previous races?

[KingChas]

Get back to you after the pulse race comes down from a fatal level. :lol:

A lot of class shown here in replies :ThmbUp: so far........... :ThmbUp:

After accusing anti Z-fans of being 1st to redboard I apoligize.
And with that Said I will be 1st;
I love you Nick Zito........... :D

[bigmack]

_Et15M6wsPo

[Force of One]

Hey, anybody who wants to make excuses about Z getting a bad trip, be my guest - just don't expect people to enable your excuse making or stroke your feelings. What about horses who absolutely need to break great from the gate to get the lead to have a chance? You would never hear half of this excuses making, yet it would be equally "legitimate".

It's not like a horse spilled in front of her in mid-stretch flight.

Hey, it's human nature to want to look for things to make disappointment easier to swallow. Doesn't mean it's right.

[Robert Goren]

I am still not sure the best horse won, but I am sure the best jockey won.

[cj]

47.14 is really burning it up. That would be, what, 52 second 1/2s in her previous races?

I was talking about the 6f call, but whatever. I use figures, not raw times. You should try it some time.

[RXB]

Mike Smith went to the well once too often and paid for it. Can't ride stupid and win forever. Zenyatta's a much better horse than Mike ever rode her. Greatness could have never been less served.

:confused:

There was nothing wrong with that ride. Not quite as perfect a trip as Blame but pretty good for being dead last in a field of 12 and going through on the inside.

[Pick6]

I was talking about the 6f call, but whatever. I use figures, not raw times. You should try it some time.
25 lengths faster, sure.

[Canarsie]

It was a great race congratulations to the connections of both horses.

I was a dirt doubter but she was magnificent in defeat showed the heart of a true champion.

It's not going to happen but imagine if she ran one more time on Super Bowl day. For the first time I would actually believe that racing would gain a large amount of new fans with so many parties going on and people watching.

Zenyatta you did racing PROUD today. :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

(:23.24, :47.14, 1:11.01, 1:37.12, 2:02.28)

Just watching the race I thought they went a little slower than that early.

[KingChas]

Lame. You know who gave up a lot of ground? Goldikova.



To bad she doesn't come over the pond more often.

HOY in my opinion.

[cj]

25 lengths faster, sure.

Nitpick if you like, 15 to 20 then, whatever.

Her last race went in an 89, and that is the dirt equivalent of about an 82. The Classic is going to be about a 120, so 38 points. At 6f, that is about 2 and 4/5ths seconds, or around 18 lengths. Happy now? Did that somehow change the point?

[Hank]

Z proved that last year was not a synthetic induced fluke.She is 100% genuine.That being said, she was not going to get by Blame if they went around again, He's a bulldog. and Gomez is a much stronger finisher than Smith.

[delayjf]

Perhaps if her connections weren't so (dare I say) cocky, they would have brought her into Churchill for a race BEFORE the Breeders' Cup Classic, and today's finish would have been reversed...she actually looked like she didn't know where she was early on...

Agree, as far as the HOY, obviously they learned nothing from last year keeping her in CA in the Distaff division. They could have raced her in the Handicap division at SA, HOL, and DMR with a good chance to win those races. Win two out three and lose the BC today and there a good chance your are still horse of the year.

[Pick6]

(:23.24, :47.14, 1:11.01, 1:37.12, 2:02.28)

Just watching the race I thought they went a little slower than that early.
Morning Line almost won wire-to-wire running 44.94 1/2 for the mile.

I got Zenyatta's fractions at:
26.6*, 50.1, 1:14, 1:38.3, 2:02.3

Splits:
23.4, 23.9, 24.3, 23.9

Basically a great effort after that ridic. poor first 1/4. Not good enough.

* - I figure 27, but whatever.

[fast4522]

Just how many of us here can say we bet a horse that did not run a lick? We have all been there and done that right? On this day and on this track Blame was just tad better that is all, one racing carer comes to a glorious end safe to all who ran with her in her last debut. And the winner a great champion in his own right now beating the mighty Zenyatta, one could say that the torch has been passed and racing has had another brilliant race to go down in history like so many others from years gone by. The exact mixture that keeps us coming back for more.

[gm10]

Just how many of us here can say we bet a horse that did not run a lick? We have all been there and done that right? On this day and on this track Blame was just tad better that is all, one racing carer comes to a glorious end safe to all who ran with her. And the winner a great champion in his own right now beating the mighty Zenyatta, one could say that the torch has been passed and racing has had another brilliant race to go down in history like so many others from years gone by. The exact mixture that keeps us coming back for more.

I say rematch. No way does he beat her again. He just got lucky that he stole a march on her just as she had to weave through traffic. He had about a head left at the wire. He was the best horse for 10F and not one yard extra.

[PaceAdvantage]

I say rematch. No way does he beat her again. He just got lucky that he stole a march on her just as she had to weave through traffic. He had about a head left at the wire. He was the best horse for 10F and not one yard extra.So now 12f is her best distance? :lol:

You (and maybe Pick6) seem to be the only ones here looking for a battle. Have fun.

[Pick6]

Nitpick if you like, 15 to 20 then, whatever.

Her last race went in an 89, and that is the dirt equivalent of about an 82. The Classic is going to be about a 120, so 38 points. At 6f, that is about 2 and 4/5ths seconds, or around 18 lengths. Happy now? Did that somehow change the point?
Thanks for acknowledging you're making stuff up, e.g. 25 lengths.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for acknowledging you're making stuff up, e.g. 25 lengths.I take back the use of the word "maybe" in my last post.

[Pick6]

So now 12f is her best distance? :lol:

You (and maybe Pick6) seem to be the only ones here looking for a battle. Have fun.
What are you talking about? You say she gives up too much ground early, fine. I say it, I don't know what I'm talking about.

A poster makes stuff up and it goes past you fine. I'm not battling anybody, I'm just stating facts.

[cj]

Thanks for acknowledging you're making stuff up, e.g. 25 lengths.

I didn't make it up, it was an educated guess...I said 20 to 25.
Why all the bitterness over being two lengths off?

It is closer to reality than the fractions you extrapolated.

[Pick6]

I take back the use of the word "maybe" in my last post.
I guess I didn't receive the "I get to make stuff up" pass.

[Force of One]

I say rematch. No way does he beat her again. He just got lucky that he stole a march on her just as she had to weave through traffic. He had about a head left at the wire. He was the best horse for 10F and not one yard extra.

No offense but you are "lost in the sauce" with that comment....

Maybe you should step away from the computer and compose yourself, until you can think rationally.

Last time I checked the conditions for the Classic, the race was 10F, not 10F 1yd. Maybe the Z camp should challenge Blame to a rematch in the BC Marathon next year?

Blame got lucky?! Yikes!

[trackrat59]

Zen and Blame ran a great race. What an exciting finish for the 2010 BC.

Leave it to Zen to lose and still look like a champ. I'm not a Zenhead, just saying.

I'll say this, she certainly is one big, stunning mare. I wish her luck as a future mom.

All the best to her.

[Pick6]

I didn't make it up, it was an educated guess...I said 20 to 25.
Why all the bitterness over being two lengths off?

It is closer to reality than the fractions you extrapolated.
So your "educated guess" reveals you make stuff up. Fine with me.

25 lengths is about 10 lengths overstating the pace. You made it up.

[garyscpa]

Morning Line almost won wire-to-wire running 44.94 1/2 for the mile.

I got Zenyatta's fractions at:
26.6*, 50.1, 1:14, 1:38.3, 2:02.3

Splits:
23.4, 23.9, 24.3, 23.9

Basically a great effort after that ridic. poor first 1/4. Not good enough.

* - I figure 27, but whatever.

Generally when the early speed horses all end up at the back of the pack, you know you had a hot pace, and that's what Zenyatta needed.

[Robert Goren]

I don't get this not leaving Ca hurt her stuff. From I saw of the race, a pretty good argument can made for a bunch of horses in that race not going to Ca hurt them more.

[Charlie D]

You can only give up so much ground early on. It was obvious today she gave up WAY too much ground early on.

.


If you go to equibase you will see that she is within 10 of winner at 1/4 and much closer than that to him throughout the rest of race so your comment above is probably incorrect.

[cj]

So your "educated guess" reveals you make stuff up. Fine with me.

25 lengths is about 10 lengths overstating the pace. You made it up.

You know I said 20-25, but if you want to continue to be an asshole, be my guest.

[PaceAdvantage]

25 lengths is about 10 lengths overstating the pace. You made it up.Why so belligerent? Is this some sort of teaching method?

[JustRalph]

Almost looked like it was going to be Life At Ten all over again for a moment there...

exactly what I thought for a minute. I saw her climbing just a little and thought something was wrong......but before the turn she started striding out. These guys were not going to be coming back to her as much as those in the past and I thought the first 200 yds gave her an unsurmountable challenge to overcome. She almost pulled it off though.

This kind of race is what she would have been running into had they chosen a more aggressive campaign. Just think, we have seen her do this two years in a row.......racing horses who have faced tougher campaigns for the entire year. That diminishes her connections in my eyes. Not the horse. The connections got away with it last year and won the big one. This time the gun was loaded with more really tough bullets and she is 1 for 2. I think she is a great horse. But I think her connections played hide and seek for a couple years and to me that counts against them.

Hell, I think if she had been raced more against better competition we might have seen something even more from her. Who knows how she would have developed. Somebody mentioned the excitement as they loaded in the gate. We have seen that level of excitement with this horse twice now. We could have seen it five or six times in the last two years. That would have been better for the game if you ask me. Win or lose, it would have made for some great racing. Think of a couple of great rivalries that could have developed etc. That is what we as fans missed out on. Instead of boring re-runs of her previous races we could have seen some races for the ages. Just like today...........

Btw, I agree that she got a good ride and B+ trip. Horses of her style rarely get a grade A trip. Had she taken the same path as her races in California (outside always to avoid being blocked) she would have finished 5L behind Blame today.

flame suit on........It's going to be a fun week talking and reading about this. I can't wait to see what Andy Beyer writes.

[cj]

You know I said 20-25, but if you want to continue to be an asshole, be my guest.

What is funny is if you average what I said, you get 22.5, and it was actually 18. That is making stuff up. P6, however, than says I'm "about" 10 lengths off. Who is making stuff up?

Who really cares though? Have a drink, relax, do something. Life goes on.

[Tom]

Maybe I should clarify...she seemed to be running a helluva lot more slowly than usual in the first quarter mile.

Almost looked like it was going to be Life At Ten all over again for a moment there...

I thought so too. I posted in the War Room she didn't look good. I though she was choppy, and I thought she was done befreo the first turn.

[Pick6]

Generally when the early speed horses all end up at the back of the pack, you know you had a hot pace, and that's what Zenyatta needed.
It was a good pace, certainly. Don't know what you mean by "hot". I would not characterize it as "blazing". It was enough to get Blame in the winner's circle.

Juvenile was a tad slower (47.27) and Uncle Mo drew off while being on/near the lead the whole way.

Mile was 44.94, which includes a straight run of course. But even with that fast pace Morning Line almost won it wire-to-wire.

Quality Road was a joke. He was dead last after a mile.

[Pick6]

You know I said 20-25, but if you want to continue to be an asshole, be my guest.
Why the name calling? You made it up and I called you on it. Why are you so sensitive?

[cj]

It was a good pace, certainly. Don't know what you mean by "hot". I would not characterize it as "blazing". It was enough to get Blame in the winner's circle.

Juvenile was a tad slower (47.27) and Uncle Mo drew off while being on/near the lead the whole way.

Mile was 44.94, which includes a straight run of course. But even with that fast pace Morning Line almost won it wire-to-wire.

Quality Road was a joke. He was dead last after a mile.

You are comparing the pace to that of a 2yo at 1.5f shorter and a one turn race a 1/4 mile shorter...oh brother. Leave the pace handicapping to the experts.

[PaceAdvantage]

Quality Road was a joke. He was dead last after a mile.So what you're saying is...not only is he not a mile and a quarter horse, he is not even a mile horse anymore? What was he? A sprinter who got lucky at least six times above one mile?

[PaceAdvantage]

Why the name calling? You made it up and I called you on it. Why are you so sensitive?Gotta calls 'em like you sees 'em sometimes.

[cj]

Why the name calling? You made it up and I called you on it. Why are you so sensitive?

Just calling them as I see them. Call me anything you like, I won't cry. I'm not sensitive. I'm absolutely giddy after this Breeder's Cup.

[Tom]

P6,
You want to debate everyone tonight?
Ar you a mass debater?

[thaskalos]

What a thrilling, emotional race!

I really think that the horse gained respect instead of losing any with this effort.

She just left herself with too much to do late...IMO. I was stunned to see her that far off in the early going...in her races at Oaklawn she started off better than that.

No excuses though...Blame was a deserving winner.

[Pick6]

Gotta calls 'em like you sees 'em sometimes.
I guess he's seen a lot of them, is that what you are saying? Sounds like some kind of insult toward him if you are asking me.

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess he's seen a lot of them, is that what you are saying? Sounds like some kind of insult toward him if you are asking me.Any further off topic posts in this thread will be deleted. I've had enough of this song and dance.

[Pick6]

So what you're saying is...not only is he not a mile and a quarter horse, he is not even a mile horse anymore? What was he? A sprinter who got lucky at least six times above one mile?
What do you call a horse who is dead last after a mile? I call it a joke of an effort. better than Life at Ten, not much better.

Dead money on that one today. And that is a fact.

[cj]

What a thrilling, emotional race!

I really think that the horse gained respect instead of losing any with this effort.


Of course she did, I don't think anyone is debating that for a second.

It does make me dislike the connections even more though.

[Pick6]

Just calling them as I see them. Call me anything you like, I won't cry. I'm not sensitive. I'm absolutely giddy after this Breeder's Cup.
Just posting facts. Sorry if you take offense.

[PaceAdvantage]

What do you call a horse who is dead last after a mile? I call it a joke of an effort. better than Life at Ten, not much better.

Dead money on that one today. And that is a fact.Maybe something is going around the barn. Didn't affect his other winners this year in the BC.

[Greyfox]

A magnificent race between two great horses that will be treasured in my memory. Un-buh-leev-able!

[cj]

Just posting facts. Sorry if you take offense.

Like saying I was about 10 lengths wrong when it was as little as 2? I'm going to be troll free for the rest of the night, good luck to you. Don't take it so hard. I'm pretty sure your last name isn't Moss, Smith, Shirreffs or Hovdey.

[Pick6]

You are comparing the pace to that of a 2yo at 1.5f shorter and a one turn race a 1/4 mile shorter...oh brother. Leave the pace handicapping to the experts.2yo running similar 1/2 on same turn for a 2 turn race. Of course, throw it out.

[Pick6]

Maybe something is going around the barn. Didn't affect his other winners this year in the BC.
Still obviously dead money.

[cj]

http://www.rubberrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Troll.jpg

[garyscpa]

...

Quality Road was a joke. He was dead last after a mile.

Guess who was a half length ahead of him. :)

[Grits]

exactly what I thought for a minute. I saw her climbing just a little and thought something was wrong......but before the turn she started striding out. These guys were not going to be coming back to her as much as those in the past and I thought the first 200 yds gave her an unsurmountable challenge to overcome. She almost pulled it off though.

This kind of race is what she would have been running into had they chosen a more aggressive campaign. Just think, we have seen her do this two years in a row.......racing horses who have faced tougher campaigns for the entire year. That diminishes her connections in my eyes. Not the horse. The connections got away with it last year and won the big one. This time the gun was loaded with more really tough bullets and she is 1 for 2. I think she is a great horse. But I think her connections played hide and seek for a couple years and to me that counts against them.

Hell, I think if she had been raced more against better competition we might have seen something even more from her. Who knows how she would have developed. Somebody mentioned the excitement as they loaded in the gate. We have seen that level of excitement with this horse twice now. We could have seen it five or six times in the last two years. That would have been better for the game if you ask me. Win or lose, it would have made for some great racing. Think of a couple of great rivalries that could have developed etc. That is what we as fans missed out on. Instead of boring re-runs of her previous races we could have seen some races for the ages. Just like today...........

Btw, I agree that she got a good ride and B+ trip. Horses of her style rarely get a grade A trip. Had she taken the same path as her races in California (outside always to avoid being blocked) she would have finished 5L behind Blame today.

flame suit on........It's going to be a fun week talking and reading about this. I can't wait to see what Andy Beyer writes.

Best post in the entire 10 pages of the thread, Ralph. Agree with every word you've typed.

She's been a joy to see in the flesh, on tv, wherever. She's been an extraordinary gift to the sport.

Still, had the Moss's not treated her like a Golden Retriever lying at the foot of their bed every night, we may truly have been able to see how great a racemare she was--but no, that's not what Jerry and Ann were about--the streak was the deal.

I was sorry she didn't win today, but as easy and as laid back as she is, as intelligent as she is--tomorrow she'll probably wake up, eat her tub up, and ask, "what time's my flight, guys. Wanna go home."

;)

[CincyHorseplayer]

exactly what I thought for a minute. I saw her climbing just a little and thought something was wrong......but before the turn she started striding out. These guys were not going to be coming back to her as much as those in the past and I thought the first 200 yds gave her an unsurmountable challenge to overcome. She almost pulled it off though.

This kind of race is what she would have been running into had they chosen a more aggressive campaign. Just think, we have seen her do this two years in a row.......racing horses who have faced tougher campaigns for the entire year. That diminishes her connections in my eyes. Not the horse. The connections got away with it last year and won the big one. This time the gun was loaded with more really tough bullets and she is 1 for 2. I think she is a great horse. But I think her connections played hide and seek for a couple years and to me that counts against them.

Hell, I think if she had been raced more against better competition we might have seen something even more from her. Who knows how she would have developed. Somebody mentioned the excitement as they loaded in the gate. We have seen that level of excitement with this horse twice now. We could have seen it five or six times in the last two years. That would have been better for the game if you ask me. Win or lose, it would have made for some great racing. Think of a couple of great rivalries that could have developed etc. That is what we as fans missed out on. Instead of boring re-runs of her previous races we could have seen some races for the ages. Just like today...........

Btw, I agree that she got a good ride and B+ trip. Horses of her style rarely get a grade A trip. Had she taken the same path as her races in California (outside always to avoid being blocked) she would have finished 5L behind Blame today.

flame suit on........It's going to be a fun week talking and reading about this. I can't wait to see what Andy Beyer writes.


Well said Ralph,well said man.

[CincyHorseplayer]

http://www.rubberrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Troll.jpg


HAHAHAHA!!!!Nice.After a good day of racing it's appropos.

[winningponies]

If I had to choose the one thing that did Zenyatta in today (besides Blame's excellent performance), it was her perfect record. The connections were obviously obsessed with keeping her record unblemished. Maybe she did need some prior experience at Churchill. Hmmm, wasn't she scratched from the Louisville Distaff in 2009 because of some rain? Maybe if they left her in, even if she lost, she wouldn't have been so lost today in the early going. Or maybe if she didn't get up to beat Anabaa's Creation at Del Mar in that tight finish at the wire (and I liked Anabaa that day), her connections would have been more aggressive since, as the "perfection" was already lost. Hell, if she lost her maiden first time out, she would have probably ended up being an even more impressive mare, as she would have had more opportunity to grow against better competition, instead of going for the perfect record. It's just silly that if the horse had to lose one race, wouldn't you rather have it be a tougher prep race, then the race you are aiming to win? They got away with it last year, and they thought they could do it again. The only difference was that this wasn't her home state/surface.

All this being said, I was extremely impressed with Zenyatta's performance on this "alien track" and also I don't think any credit should be taken away from Blame as well. I should also "blame" myself for not putting Fly Down in the Trifecta (although I did use him in my Superfecta).

I think what would be great for racing would be if Zenyatta came back one more year (now with an imperfect record), ran a strong 2011 campaign, and see how she ends up in the 2011 Classic.

[cpitt84]

I think what would be great for racing would be if Zenyatta came back one more year (now with an imperfect record), ran a strong 2011 campaign, and see how she ends up in the 2011 Classic.

I agree.

[Charli125]

I think what would be great for racing would be if Zenyatta came back one more year (now with an imperfect record), ran a strong 2011 campaign, and see how she ends up in the 2011 Classic.

I'm torn on that one. While I would love to see her mount a challenging campaign next year, I also want to see her babies. With her size, late kick, etc., and the right sire, I'd love to see what comes out.

Still, one more year would still leave plenty of time for babies right?

[nijinski]

Mike Smith didn't have an easy task and I'm not sure he made that many mistakes. Zenyatta was the best horse in the race but Blame got the jump on her and then it becomes very difficult to run him down, epecially when you have to wait for the gaps to appear.

One thing I know for sure is that she will never be the same mare again. Mike Smith destroyed her with his whip a la Borel on RA last year. It's likely that this has soured her on racing for good.

I don't think the padded whip will sour her , but she's probably somewhat tapped out from her travels and her huge effort .

[Force of One]

If I had to choose the one thing that did Zenyatta in today (besides Blame's excellent performance), it was her perfect record. The connections were obviously obsessed with keeping her record unblemished. Maybe she did need some prior experience at Churchill. Hmmm, wasn't she scratched from the Louisville Distaff in 2009 because of some rain? Maybe if they left her in, even if she lost, she wouldn't have been so lost today in the early going. Or maybe if she didn't get up to beat Anabaa's Creation at Del Mar in that tight finish at the wire (and I liked Anabaa that day), her connections would have been more aggressive since, as the "perfection" was already lost. Hell, if she lost her maiden first time out, she would have probably ended up being an even more impressive mare, as she would have had more opportunity to grow against better competition, instead of going for the perfect record. It's just silly that if the horse had to lose one race, wouldn't you rather have it be a tougher prep race, then the race you are aiming to win? They got away with it last year, and they thought they could do it again. The only difference was that this wasn't her home state/surface.

All this being said, I was extremely impressed with Zenyatta's performance on this "alien track" and also I don't think any credit should be taken away from Blame as well. I should also "blame" myself for not putting Fly Down in the Trifecta (although I did use him in my Superfecta).

I think what would be great for racing would be if Zenyatta came back one more year (now with an imperfect record), ran a strong 2011 campaign, and see how she ends up in the 2011 Classic.

Overall, some great points here....

Not 100% sure about racing next year though. She would be getting a little long in the tooth at 7, especially for a female. She was already up against the age barrier in the BC Classic, as I believe no 6 year old+ has ever won, including Cigar. If she's healthy and still interested in racing, then sure. But even the great ones get old and lose a step.

[Grits]

I was extremely impressed with Zenyatta's performance on this "alien track"

Guess that's why they call it "class."

[cpitt84]

I'm torn on that one. While I would love to see her mount a challenging campaign next year, I also want to see her babies. With her size, late kick, etc., and the right sire, I'd love to see what comes out.

Still, one more year would still leave plenty of time for babies right?

see, i have no interest in her having foals. I just want to see her win and keep in the best of shape.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I want to see them Zenyatta babies,even if they come slowly!

I've thought about everything Winningponies said but if she had lost sooner she would have retired sooner.If the synthetics wouldn't have kept her record intact she might not have run today.It's a damned if you do,damned if you don't proposition for us looking at it.But I believe if they had been more aggressive this year and trained some tactical speed into I bet she doesn't lose today.

It might not have been fun for us horseplayers but she did draw some of the outside world to this game.I hope they stay and want to learn it's ins and outs and become players.

[ArlJim78]

I can't blame the connections of Zenyatta for anything. They kept her in form for three years, she never any physical issues, fired every time, nearly won every race she ever entered, made millions of dollars, entertained many along the way. In my book i score that as an unqualified success story. Yes they were very careful with her, but I think it is likely that they made the right moves with her by avoiding situations that didn't fit her style.

[Derbyman32]

Zenyatta was handled very carefully to be 19 for 19. The funny part is she gained MORE respect today by going out of her comfort zone.

I really doubted she was good enough but she proved to be very capable. I think even is she had lost a couple of races people would have been more impressed with her had she taken a few more chances to lose.

I am probably wrong but that happens a lot, lol, so no harm done

[PaceAdvantage]

Perhaps their carefulness and Zenyatta's resiliancy will allow them to bring her back one more year. It seems as though the Mosses started to back off the retirement issue this week...not sure what has been stated after today's race:

Now the decision comes as to whether to retire the heralded Thoroughbred. The Mosses indicated Zenyatta would retire after the Classic, but Moss began to back off that statement during the week leading up to the race, saying instead he “would wait and see.” http://www.foxsportsohio.com/11/06/10/Zenyatta-Takes-First-Loss-At-Breeders-Cu/landing.html?blockID=347349&feedID=3724

With the way her "retirement" was handled last year, who knows what is in store for Zenyatta in the future.

[cpitt84]

I just dont want her to end her career on this loss.

[dnlgfnk]

I'm a serious player who has pursued the question of why horses perform as they do for 35 years. My allegiance is with all the horses and people that make up this great sport.
Zenyatta's average margin of victory in her last 10 races is a bit more than a length and a quarter, accomplished in what many have a right to claim was a timid, polytrack campaign vs. fillies and mares. Now we have camps justifying her limitations (of course like any serious player, I consider running styles and the vulnerability of deep closers), or needing to assign fault to the jockey or elsewhere.
The accomplished on dirt, male, Horse of the Year Blame defeated Zenyatta by 1.3 lengths more than the average runnerup to her in her weak, plastic schedule. This miniscule margin is enough to justify all the preconceived theories of some "experts" here. Do they ever question their methods, or the possibility that there are serious factors determining the outcome of races that they are not only not utilizing, but may be unaware of? Guess not. Some of the experts here were sure by their approach to the game that Zenyatta would drop farther than usual behind a destructive pace and rally furiously but too late, based on her California experience. A head loss to Blame confirmed it for them. Wish my handicapping approach could be so finely tuned.

[Nikki1997]

I am pretty much in agreement that Ralph made an excellent summation and Tom added a point that it looked a little like Life At Ten redux at the start .

The race was a thriller and Zenyatta seemed hopelessly beaten and then came on to just miss.

No excuses needed and none offered from me .

I do understand Smith blaming himself, but the mare broke rather slowly,was further back than usual, and lost more contact with the field than she normally does.

Her stride from the gate seemed awkward and it took too much time to get her smoothed out which I believe cost her and Smith blames himself for .

While Blame had the perfect trip, Zenyatta's trip was the normal weaving in and out for her, and while not perfect did not compromise the win .

Blame ran brilliantly and got there first.

As I mentioned, she did not appear at first to get hold of the track, and Pace may have something in that more time over it might have been a plus .

Once she leveled out, she did fine and handled the dirt no problem .

If your heart was not racing at the finish for this one, Jack you dead ...

MIKKI

[depalma113]

Zenyatta opening quarter in Breeders Cup Classic

2010 26.44

2009 27.06

Amazing how faster horses in front of her can create an optical illusion.

[PaceAdvantage]

I am pretty much in agreement that Ralph made an excellent summation and Tom added a point that it looked a little like Life At Ten redux at the start .Actually, that was me who made the Life At Ten redux comment. But hey, who's counting? One non-demeaning comment from you directed towards me must have been enough for you to handle. I understand.

Pace may have something in that more time over it might have been a plusI will treasure this forever.

[Relwob Owner]

Best post in the entire 10 pages of the thread, Ralph. Agree with every word you've typed.

She's been a joy to see in the flesh, on tv, wherever. She's been an extraordinary gift to the sport.

Still, had the Moss's not treated her like a Golden Retriever lying at the foot of their bed every night, we may truly have been able to see how great a racemare she was--but no, that's not what Jerry and Ann were about--the streak was the deal.


I was sorry she didn't win today, but as easy and as laid back as she is, as intelligent as she is--tomorrow she'll probably wake up, eat her tub up, and ask, "what time's my flight, guys. Wanna go home."

;)



I have been just reading for the last several months and not posting but I had to here....I agree with your whole post but the third paragraph is just about the best summary/opinion I have read about how Z has been campaigned....totally agree and very well said.


I feel that the way Zenyatta was campaigned robbed fans of so many other races that could have been as exciting as the one today.

[Grits]

Thanks so much

[Nikki1997]

Actually, that was me who made the Life At Ten redux comment. But hey, who's counting? One non-demeaning comment from you directed towards me must have been enough for you to handle. I understand.

I will treasure this forever.

I will note the error .

Two non-demeaning comments--guilty.

Whether you were being sarcastic or not about the treasure comment, it has been know that I have a gracious side---MIKKI

[bks]

The track played very fair, I thought, but on the tiring side. Most of the races were faster early and slower late. None of the races were run in particularly fast time.

What an incredible thrill to be at trackside at (what seemed like) the precise spot Zenyatta emerged from the pack to begin her stretch charge. Suddenly her entire flank became visible, and in two jumps she passed what seemed a throng of fading horses. The spontaneous roar that went up just then was as electrifying a sports moment as any I can recall in the last several years.

Congratulations to Blame's connections, and to the weekend's best jockey by far, Garrett Gomez. They were deserving winners.

Smith ran a very good race, and an all-time great mare got edged by a damn good race horse. It happens.

[Charlie D]

Smith ran a very good race, and an all-time over-hyped mare got edged by a damn good race horse. It happens.


FTFY bks :)

[cpitt84]

What did Blame do differently in this race verses the jockey club gold? Why did Haynesfield look fantastic in that race and faded in the BCC? every race is different, of course, but thoughts?

[bks]

Start a list if you like of the mares that would have won today, Charlie. Be interested to see that.

[Nets]

Had to Google "FTFY".........:eek:

[RXB]

What did Blame do differently in this race verses the jockey club gold? Why did Haynesfield look fantastic in that race and faded in the BCC? every race is different, of course, but thoughts?

Blame went back to his home track, got a solid pace to run at, and is overall a classier horse than Haynesfield.

Haynesfield didn't get a big lead on modest fractions.

[PaceAdvantage]

What did Blame do differently in this race verses the jockey club gold? Why did Haynesfield look fantastic in that race and faded in the BCC? every race is different, of course, but thoughts?Ahhh...the very essence of handicapping. Trying to figure out this grand puzzle that presents itself to us once every 15-20 minutes or so (or more if you are an at-home betting fiend).

The questions you pose are what makes this game so much damn fun.

[JustRalph]

Haynesfield didn't get a big lead on modest fractions.

I was actually hoping this might happen because the Jocks would slow it down to try and thwart the queen........... oh well........

[cj]

Start a list if you like of the mares that would have won today, Charlie. Be interested to see that.

People will think I'm crazy, but I'll start the list with Blind Luck.

[PaceAdvantage]

Even I didn't expect that name to start off your list. Bravo! :ThmbUp: :lol:

[thaskalos]

People will think I'm crazy, but I'll start the list with Blind Luck.You are crazy.

[cpitt84]

Ahhh...the very essence of handicapping. Trying to figure out this grand puzzle that presents itself to us once every 15-20 minutes or so (or more if you are an at-home betting fiend).

The questions you pose are what makes this game so much damn fun.

How about your thoughts on it? :)

[PaceAdvantage]

How about your thoughts on it? :)I'll echo pretty much what RXB wrote. Blame is 3 for 4 lifetime at Churchill, so he obviously likes the track. I stated on my home page analysis that I thought Blame was a better closer than Zenyatta and they both benefited from what I consider to be a quick, contested early pace which tired out a nice chunk of horses.

I'm no genius though. I had Blame as my fourth pick behind QR (12th), Espoir City (10th), and Lookin At Lucky (4th).

[cj]

You are crazy.

She had a totally against the pace trip and ran a low 100s Beyer. Zenyatta had a perfect trip pace wise and gets a mid 100s. I'd take my chances.

[thaskalos]

How about your thoughts on it? :)If a speed horse is allowed to set a leisurely pace, then that horse will run the best race it is capable of. But if the same horse is forced to fight for the lead in faster fractions...not only will it run worse than it did before...but it might have trouble finishing the race.

[thaskalos]

She had a totally against the pace trip and ran a low 100s Beyer. Zenyatta had a perfect trip pace wise and gets a mid 100s. I'd take my chances.CJ...I know that is pure speculation...but as horseplayers, that's what we do. Your honest opinion, because I respect your views on this game:

If the race is run again next week...and seeing what we saw today...would you bet on a Blame repeat if the odds were not a factor?

[cpitt84]

I'll echo pretty much what RXB wrote. Blame is 3 for 4 lifetime at Churchill, so he obviously likes the track. I stated on my home page analysis that I thought Blame was a better closer than Zenyatta and they both benefited from what I consider to be a quick, contested early pace which tired out a nice chunk of horses.

I'm no genius though. I had Blame as my fourth pick behind QR (12th), Espoir City (10th), and Lookin At Lucky (4th).

Yeah when you look at his win against QR, you really see the strength he has in the final furlong of a race.

It still bothers me he won! This will sting for a long time.

[BluegrassProf]

It's so incredibly refreshing to see that the reaction to the Classic is one of admiration as much as it is (if not more than it is) vindication. Hopefully those espousing this mindset will finally see what so many had hoped to see for so long: a legitimate test of a top-level competitor in classic American racing style. So she came up short in her attempt - so goes the game. What a thrill it is. :ThmbUp:

We respect Zenyatta's accomplishments for what they are without hesitation, and keep open our eyes to a whole grand history into which her place is firmly set. Congrats to everyone for a great weekend of racing (and hopefully swimming in pools of payouts).

[cj]

CJ...I know that is pure speculation...but as horseplayers, that's what we do. Your honest opinion, because I respect your views on this game:

If the race is run again next week...and seeing what we saw today...would you bet on a Blame repeat if the odds were not a factor?

Honestly, and I'm really not knocking Z, is that I would take Blame every time because it was on dirt and she has so little speed. Big closers are always overbet on real dirt, and forgetting odds, they under perform win wise.

It was great watching Z today. She is entertaining and a real character and gives all she has. That said, anyone that bet her in the win pool today is a bad bettor, period. I'd say the same thing even if she had won.

[Grits]

Has anybody heard from CarlonR?

I saw him on the telecast today wearing a navy blue sweatshirt--was he at Churchill.

Tonight he may have hung himself with his sweatshirt because "the big mare" came up a head short at the wire.:lol:

[cpitt84]

great article on zenyatta and how the race put her greatness in quesiton:

http://www.sportsbettingworld.com/home/horse-racing/does-zenyattas-breeders-cup-classic-loss-diminish-her-greatness-09207/

[Greyfox]

Honestly, and I'm really not knocking Z, is that I would take Blame every time because it was on dirt and she has so little speed. Big closers are always overbet on real dirt, and forgetting odds, they under perform win wise.

It was great watching Z today. She is entertaining and a real character and gives all she has. That said, anyone that bet her in the win pool today is a bad bettor, period. I'd say the same thing even if she had won.

:ThmbUp: Spot on.
As a win bet, a poor wager.
As a "sentimental" bet, the fans, including myself, as of late, didn't lose a nickel in enjoyment.
In fact this race may have done more to promote horse racing among young people than anything else in the last year.
No, I did not have the exacta, even with Zenyatta on top.
Yes, I bet against Zenyatta and Blame, understanding they were logical possibilities in other exotic plays. In fact, I left Blame out - obviously a mistake.
I saw more value plays that in actuality did not materialize.
My horses, as it turned out, could not get the distance.
With no hope of winning anything, I found myself screaming for Zenyatta
down the stretch run, even though my players had folded their tents.
And why not?
Well done Zenyatta. Good on you Blame.

[cj]

Has anybody heard from CarlonR?

I saw him on the telecast today wearing a navy blue sweatshirt--was he at Churchill.

Tonight he may have hung himself with his sweatshirt because "the big mare" came up a head short at the wire.:lol:

He should be proud of her effort, doing the Z dance, working it.

[Charlie D]

What did Blame do differently in this race verses the jockey club gold? Why did Haynesfield look fantastic in that race and faded in the BCC? every race is different, of course, but thoughts?


Look at the different race dynamics, in JC haynesfield set steady fraction and no Pace Pressure from another horse making it very hard for Blame to win.

In Classic faster fractions and pressure which caused all prominent horses to collapse. This Match Up scenario helps Deep Closers

[Grits]

He should be proud of her effort, doing the Z dance, working it.

Work it, baby, work it good. LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

ROTF, just too, too funny.:lol: :lol: :lol:

[cpitt84]

Yeah, i dont know if i can watch zenyattas races live anymore! if she were to race next year,i may just have to stick with replay.

[cpitt84]

Look at the different race dynamics, in JC haynesfield set steady fraction and no Pace Pressure from another horse - very hard for Blame to overcome.

In Classic faster fractions and pressure which caused all prominent horses to collapse. This Match Up scenario helps Deep Closers


Ahh, this helps. thanks. Do you think if Zenyatta was only 6 lengths off the entire race she could have caught up?

[Market Mover]

Best post in the entire 10 pages of the thread, Ralph. Agree with every word you've typed.

She's been a joy to see in the flesh, on tv, wherever. She's been an extraordinary gift to the sport.

Still, had the Moss's not treated her like a Golden Retriever lying at the foot of their bed every night, we may truly have been able to see how great a racemare she was--but no, that's not what Jerry and Ann were about--the streak was the deal.

I was sorry she didn't win today, but as easy and as laid back as she is, as intelligent as she is--tomorrow she'll probably wake up, eat her tub up, and ask, "what time's my flight, guys. Wanna go home."

;)

Great post, and great summary of the overall "Is Zenyatta for real" debate...

She is truly a great mare. But today she got beat by a better horse. Anyone who watches the gallop out will realize Blame would not let her by even after the wire. She ran her heart out today.

Can't blame Mike so much for the trip, but only perhaps not keeping her closer early. Had he pressed her early, there's no guarantee she'd save that late kick to do what she did. She was merely cantering early, and perhaps today that mere glimpse of a weakness in this incredible mare was unfortunately exposed. And that's the price that late-running, one-dimensional closers face in full fields of quality runners. When you come from behind, you will run into traffic, you will have to eat dirt, and you still have to fight to win.

Had Mike taken the overland route, and kept whipping her 23 times down that stretch, she might have finished a length or two BEHIND Blame. Only by cutting that corner and angling out in front of foes, did she make up all that deficit she had created early by not settling into stride. Zenyatta was, in essence, her own worst enemy today.

The great ones like Seattle Slew and Secretariat possess tremendous bursts of speed that often annihilate their foes into immediate submission. So they have less vulnerabilities. Seattle Slew had the speed to devastate his opponents early. And stretch that speed a true classic distance, no less. And Secretariat was able to blitz them whenever he wanted. Even on the turns. These great ones were brilliant early and brilliant late. They traveled all over the country. They hid from no one. And they broke track records.

In retrospect, I curse the polytrack/cushion track entity. They allowed for this mare to be campaigned in such a delicate nature that it perhaps masked the true greatness of her abilities. Had synth not existed, they might have been more inclined to run Zen out of Cali. Because you can only win so many HOL Gold Cups and Big Caps before you have to travel east to face the titans on this side of the Mississippi.

She ran by them all. All except one. Is she a great mare? Yes. Is she the greatest ever? No. Because she did not sweep the Triple Crown (remember, the great ones are brilliant early and brilliant late). And she did not break track records. And Blame is no Seattle Slew or Secretariat.

Still, she is one of the best we have seen in a long time. She ranks right up there with Cigar and Kelso as the all-time greats.

[PaceAdvantage]

She ranks right up there with Cigar and Kelso as the all-time greats.Ouch. You maybe had me up until this last line.

[magwell]

Till today I always thought Ruffian was the best filly or mare, but that changed today,This puts her as the best ever.

[Alacrity]

Cigar's overrated.

[cj]

Till today I always thought Ruffian was the best filly or mare, but that changed today,This puts her as the best ever.

She wasn't even the best filly or mare that ran today!

[Charlie D]

Ahh, this helps. thanks. Do you think if Zenyatta was only 6 lengths off the entire race she could have caught up?


She was about that distance from the winner after the first quarter.


If Blame had run closer to Pace she may have as he would probably have been running on fumes in final 1/8th

[Bettowin]

She wasn't even the best filly or mare that ran today!


Euros don't count when we talk about the best:)

[mountainman]

I thought that Blame was sitting on a monster effort after bouncing on the heels of a breakout beyer and being victimized by a lone speed scenario in his last race. I concur with pace that the horse-for-course angle also factored in, but perhaps for a different reason. Med rules that vary from state to state cause variations in performance that even hoy candidates are subject to. I had a big (for my modest means) win bet on blame (walked RIGHT to the windows last night at mnr for the first time in years, which felt SO liberating). I went on record with this analysis on last night's show, so this isn't redboarding. And while I salute the gallant synth-queen, I suspect she lost to a better dirt horse, and would take him again to defeat her.

Nor do I think that Zenyatta deserves extra credit for lagging so far back. Since when, after all, did a a complete lack of tactical speed become an attribute rather than a liability? If anything, today's result strongly implies that there are NUMEROUS males in the annals of racing that Zenyatta would fail to rundown.

[pandy]

Till today I always thought Ruffian was the best filly or mare, but that changed today,This puts her as the best ever.

When I saw Ruffian live in person I thought for sure that I'd never see a better filly, but I think that Zenyatta is at least as good, and probably better. The interesting thing is that they are complete opposites, Ruffian was better at shorter distances and the fastest early speed horse I've ever seen, ran them into the ground and coasted home. Zen crawls early and finishes faster than any horse I've ever seen, prefers more distance. Ruffian would be unbeatable at a mile or shorter. In my opinion she was the fastest sprinter/miler that ever lived, regardless of sex.

[magwell]

She wasn't even the best filly or mare that ran today! That's why they make chocolate and vanilla partner,Goldie is a great one but shes no Zen, we seen a freak run today probably not to be seen again in our lifetime.

[Charlie D]

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla partner,Goldie is a great one but shes no Zen, we seen a freak run today probably not to be seen again in our lifetime.


You will as horses with the kind ability of come along pretty regular as they are not freaks as you put it.

[Marlin]

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla partner,Goldie is a great one but shes no Zen, we seen a freak run today probably not to be seen again in our lifetime.I agree. Goldikova is the best miler in the world. The best in a long time. But specialists like her will always take a back seat in my opinion. You have to go a bit down the list to find a specialist (milers, sprinters, turfers) in the rankings of the all time greats.
Now if you want to argue Zenyatta's ranking, it certainly is up for debate. But IMHO it is higher than Goldie. What is more likely? Zenyatta hitting the board in the mile or Goldie hitting the board in the classic? Goldie is lucky she races in Europe because people here would be all over her connections for not racing on the dirt or at longer distances.

[PhantomOnTour]

What I've learned after watching today's BC Classic:

A) Trevor has got to go...gimme Durkin, Collmus, anyone....except Wallace.

B) it's tough to beat someone on their home turf, ain't it?

C) sometimes you gain more respect and admiration in defeat than in victory.

[Jasonm921]

Turf horses always getva pass. We demand more from our dirt runners. Goldikova is a great mare. The best in her element although I still believe Lure was the better miler but it is very debatable.

[Marlin]

Turf horses always getva pass. We demand more from our dirt runners. Goldikova is a great mare. The best in her element although I still believe Lure was the better miler but it is very debatable.Lure was ranked 85th in the Bloodhorse's top 100 of the 1900s.

[Charlie D]

I agree. Goldikova is the best miler in the world. The best in a long time. But specialists like her will always take a back seat in my opinion. You have to go a bit down the list to find a specialist (milers, sprinters, turfers) in the rankings of the all time greats.
Now if you want to argue Zenyatta's ranking, it certainly is up for debate. But IMHO it is higher than Goldie. What is more likely? Zenyatta hitting the board in the mile or Goldie hitting the board in the classic? Goldie is lucky she races in Europe because people here would be all over her connections for not racing on the dirt or at longer distances.


Goldi has raced at longer distance actually and got well beaten, but it wasn't by a tomato can, that is unless you consider Zarkava one

[Nikki1997]

When I saw Ruffian live in person I thought for sure that I'd never see a better filly, but I think that Zenyatta is at least as good, and probably better. The interesting thing is that they are complete opposites, Ruffian was better at shorter distances and the fastest early speed horse I've ever seen, ran them into the ground and coasted home. Zen crawls early and finishes faster than any horse I've ever seen, prefers more distance. Ruffian would be unbeatable at a mile or shorter. In my opinion she was the fastest sprinter/miler that ever lived, regardless of sex.

Ruffian won at 10 and 12 furlongs--her last furlong of the 12 covered in 11 and change. She was built and bred to stay, but was very much the frontrunner .

She was not a sprinter miler regardless of her achievements at those distances. Had she survived the match, you would have seen her running more than the three times she did at classic distances.

As a Z fan, I will say Ruffian was perhaps more versatile at a variety of distances, though her style like Zenyatta's was one dimensional .

Ruffian had to be in front, Z behind . In that respect only were they complete opposites .

MIKKI

[Marlin]

Ruffian won at 10 and 12 furlongs--her last furlong of the 12 covered in 11 and change. She was built and bred to stay, but was very much the frontrunner .

She was not a sprinter miler regardless of her achievements at those distances. Had she survived the match, you would have seen her running more than the three times she did at classic distances.

As a Z fan, I will say Ruffian was perhaps more versatile at a variety of distances, though her style like Zenyatta's was one dimensional .

Ruffian had to be in front, Z behind . In that respect only were they complete opposites .

MIKKIPulling this Bloodhorse Top 100 of the 20th century was a great idea. It is a great read. They had Ruffian 35th. Of course this excludes the last ten years but Zenyatta would certainly fall somewhere around there. Id be somewhat comfortable moving her in front of Easy Goer at 34. Less so moving her by Skip Away at 32. And no way I could move her by Sunday Silence at 31.

[andymays]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Breeders-Cup-Diary/11062010-looking-for-blame/

Excerpt:

“I was just having a rough time of it going underneath the white wire the first time. She just wasn’t leveling out like I wanted to. The dirt hitting her in the face was a lot of it. She just wasn’t used to that part.

-------------------------------------------------------

[PhantomOnTour]

Pulling this Bloodhorse Top 100 of the 20th century was a great idea. It is a great read. They had Ruffian 35th. Of course this excludes the last ten years but Zenyatta would certainly fall somewhere around there. Id be somewhat comfortable moving her in front of Easy Goer at 34. Less so moving her by Skip Away at 32. And no way I could move her by Sunday Silence at 31.
Who is the highest rated filly/mare? Is it Ruffian at 35?

[Marlin]

Who is the highest rated filly/mare? Is it Ruffian at 35?Yes. The next is Busher at 40.

[Man o' War]

Well Zenyatta…..going 19 for 20 ain’t bad. You didn’t expect to top my 20 for 21 did you? Or the Dancer’s 21 for 22? Damned ‘UPSET’, I should have been perfect too! Now after today, I’m beginning to think the Lord won’t let us be perfect so I will not ‘BLAME’ your loss on any lack of 'class' on your part. Welcome to the club!! And you’re the first female by the way….

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Breeders-Cup-Diary/11062010-looking-for-blame/

Excerpt:

“I was just having a rough time of it going underneath the white wire the first time. She just wasn’t leveling out like I wanted to. The dirt hitting her in the face was a lot of it. She just wasn’t used to that part.

-------------------------------------------------------How can it be that a mare like Zenyatta, who consistently and without fail races at the back of the pack for much of every race, is NOT USED to dirt (or synth for that matter) getting kicked up into her face? I find this a little hard to believe now that I have had a moment to think about it.

[WJ47]

She impressed me more today than ever before...she's a tremendous race horse and a tremendous mare.

I didn't think Zenyatta would be close with her speed and pace figures. She made a fool out of me! What a heart she has. I'm also more impressed with her today even though she lost the race.

[andymays]

How can it be that a mare like Zenyatta, who consistently and without fail races at the back of the pack for much of every race, is NOT USED to dirt (or synth for that matter) getting kicked up into her face? I find this a little hard to believe now that I have had a moment to think about it.

They can't really use the surface excuse. There have been two articles saying she loves the surface at Churchill. Here is one of them.
--------------------------------------------


Sherriffs: Zenyatta 'Obviously Likes' Surface | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59733/sherriffs-zenyatta-obviously-likes-surface

Excerpt:

“She seemed to be into the bridle with her normal energy,” Shirreffs said. “I was told a long time ago if you bring a horse to Churchill, they either love (the surface) or don’t like it. She obviously likes the track here. The surface issue is a non-issue.”

[Marlin]

Well Zenyatta…..going 19 for 20 ain’t bad. You didn’t expect to top my 20 for 21 did you? Or the Dancer’s 21 for 22? Damned ‘UPSET’, I should have been perfect too! Now after today, I’m beginning to think the Lord won’t let us be perfect so I will not ‘BLAME’ your loss on any lack of 'class' on your part. Welcome to the club!! And you’re the first female by the way….Unbeatens: Colin ranked 15th and Personal Ensign at 48th.

[PaceAdvantage]

Goldie is lucky she races in Europe because people here would be all over her connections for not racing on the dirt or at longer distances.No they wouldn't.

Well, they might if people started foolishly commenting how Goldikova might be as good or better than Secretariat, Kelso, Seattle Slew and even Cigar.

[ArlJim78]

They can't really use the surface excuse. There have been two articles saying she loves the surface at Churchill. Here is one of them.
--------------------------------------------


Sherriffs: Zenyatta 'Obviously Likes' Surface | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59733/sherriffs-zenyatta-obviously-likes-surface

Excerpt:

“She seemed to be into the bridle with her normal energy,” Shirreffs said. “I was told a long time ago if you bring a horse to Churchill, they either love (the surface) or don’t like it. She obviously likes the track here. The surface issue is a non-issue.”
Sherreffs is talking here about liking the surface to run on. Smith was talking about her not liking the dirt in the face.

[Marlin]

No they wouldn't.

Well, they might if people started foolishly commenting how Goldikova might be as good or better than Secretariat, Kelso, Seattle Slew and even Cigar.True Dat! I actually couldn't believe some of the comparisons being blurted out. My comment was sarcastic and not well thought out and shouldn't have been included in my post.

[Tom]

Goldy is a nice turf mare.
Warm up band. Opening act.

Turf is card filler.
Secretariat went out on it because he had lost a step.

[ArlJim78]

How can it be that a mare like Zenyatta, who consistently and without fail races at the back of the pack for much of every race, is NOT USED to dirt (or synth for that matter) getting kicked up into her face? I find this a little hard to believe now that I have had a moment to think about it.
Have you ever seen her come back from a race so dirty before? Smith had mud caked on his face. With a large field like that on dirt, I think it is possible she experienced something she hadn't before. It was clear to me that at the point of the race he is referring to, passing the stand the first time, she moved in a funny way for a time. I guess getting used to the dirt in the face makes some sense to me.

It wasn't given as an excuse in any case, Smith blamed himself.

[Market Mover]

Cigar's overrated.


Really? You think BC Classic AND Dubai World Cup double is overrated?

[Market Mover]

When I saw Ruffian live in person I thought for sure that I'd never see a better filly, but I think that Zenyatta is at least as good, and probably better. The interesting thing is that they are complete opposites, Ruffian was better at shorter distances and the fastest early speed horse I've ever seen, ran them into the ground and coasted home. Zen crawls early and finishes faster than any horse I've ever seen, prefers more distance. Ruffian would be unbeatable at a mile or shorter. In my opinion she was the fastest sprinter/miler that ever lived, regardless of sex.


If you crawl early, then you should be expected to finish fast late..

[Greyfox]

I didn't think Zenyatta would be close with her speed and pace figures. She made a fool out of me! What a heart she has. I'm also more impressed with her today even though she lost the race.

Well said.
I was also very impressed with how the connections of John Shireffs and
Mr. and Mrs. Moss handled the ever so slight defeat.
They were a class act.

[classhandicapper]

Am I the only one that thought she seemed very uncomfortable early in the race. At one point I actually thought she was going to get pulled up and not finish. She always gets away slowly and takes time to get in stride, but today it looked different.

This was a great accomplishment. It's truly extraordinary for any mare to be competitive in a full field of multiple Grade 1 winning older horses ON DIRT. The list of great mares that tried weaker Grade 1 dirt races than this and failed miserably is very long and the list that never tried anything like this is even longer.

To be of this amazing quality on multiple surfaces is truly amazing.

I think Goldikova is a truly great turf miler. She's surely one of the best ever.

What would people think if Goldikova came to the states to run in a super duper loaded version of the Met Mile and missed by a long nose. It would be crazy insane, but that's what Zenyatta has done and more because she did it 10F. That's even harder. She proved she's great on two surfaces.

It was terribly disappointing and heartbreaking for her fans to lose by so little, but it solidified her position as an all time great mare on multiple surfaces. :ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

How can it be that a mare like Zenyatta, who consistently and without fail races at the back of the pack for much of every race, is NOT USED to dirt (or synth for that matter) getting kicked up into her face? I find this a little hard to believe now that I have had a moment to think about it.

I don't know that she reacted badly to the dirt being kicked in her face, but
I know with 100% certainty that Mike Smith mentioned dirt being kicked in her face for the first time as a possible risk factor several days before the race.

I can't recall which interview it was, but I am certain.

I was sort of shocked by that because I assumed they would have trained her for that. She gallops on the Hollywood DIRT training track regularly, but perhaps they never bothered. Dirt kick back may be different than synthetic kick back, but I don't know that for sure.

Either way, she's always off slowly etc... but for awhile she was totally disconnected and almost looked ready to get eased. Then she quickly worked her way back.

[nijinski]

I don't know that she reacted badly to the dirt being kicked in her face, but
I know with 100% certainty that Mike Smith mentioned dirt being kicked in her face for the first time as a possible risk factor several days before the race.

I can't recall which interview it was, but I am certain.

I was sort of shocked by that because I assumed they would have trained her for that. She gallops on the Hollywood DIRT training track regularly, but perhaps they never bothered. Dirt kick back may be different than synthetic kick back, but I don't know that for sure.

Either way, she's always off slowly etc... but for awhile she was totally disconnected and almost looked ready to get eased. Then she quickly worked her way back.
Don't think kickback is a problem on synthetics.
It could be a problem for any of the horses if a big clod of dirt or mud
hits them smack in the eye. So it's definately something Mike would have been concerned with .

[Greyfox]

Goldy is a nice turf mare.
.

:lol: Understatement post of the year.:lol:

[WillA]

As deflated as most of us are. She still has an incredible record, much better than Secretariat who lost four times, three as a three year old. In open company I think he won twice and lost twice.

[classhandicapper]

People will think I'm crazy, but I'll start the list with Blind Luck.

With all due respect, I also think Blind Luck is a very very good filly, but she's not even on the same planet as Zenyatta. I know your figures may say otherwise, but all figures are prone to inaccuracy, the result of pace, race dynamics, and surface idiosyncrasies that can't be measured well etc.., They also do not measure less tangible qualities of competitiveness or what a horse has left in reserve after the race. I could go on.

Blind Luck lost to decent but not spectacular mare yesterday that would have finished badly up the track in today's race. She's lost to others that would have gotten crushed in today's race also. She might have even finished 3rd yesterday if Pletcher's main horse didn't have a tizzy fit and not run at all.

Figures are a good tool with loads of value, but IMO if you take them too literally without considering qualitative issues you are missing the boat on measuring horses ability and performances. IMO Blind Luck would have been lucky to finish ahead of Musket Man in the Classic.

[ohbaby]

This makes for a very interesting bid for horse of the year.

I among many, feel she was robbed last year of the title, and most probably won't win it this year either.

This is just an out and out travesty. The best horse of our generation, never winning a HOY title. This is a crying shame.

If you were to ask me,.. I'd say this is the best race Zenyatta has ever run!
Think about it,... There was no way, she should have won this race, she would have had to have been a super horse,... Oh wait,... she is a super horse. Oh well, no one is perfect. Just the fact she came within inches of a perfect record against the best there is, with the trip she had, was just incredible. This is by far her best race, and yet the only one she lost.

[classhandicapper]

This makes for a very interesting bid for horse of the year.

I among many, feel she was robbed last year of the title, and most probably won't win it this year either.

This is just an out and out travesty. The best horse of our generation, never winning a HOY title. This is a crying shame.

If you were to ask me,.. I'd say this is the best race Zenyatta has ever run!
Think about it,... There was no way she should have won this race, yet came as close as you can without winning,... just incredible.

She can't get HOTY and doesn't deserve it. Blame will get it. But that takes nothing away from her greatness.

[ohbaby]

She can't get HOTY and doesn't deserve it. Blame will get it. But that takes nothing away from her greatness.

I don't know how you can say she doesn't deserve it and in the next sentence talk about her greatness. Shouldn't HOY be all about Greatness?

[gm10]

I do not post often but I just cannot resist...

I WISH TO HELL YOU WOULD SHUT UP!

bcgreg

I wish you wouldn't shout. Do you actually disagree?

[gm10]

People will think I'm crazy, but I'll start the list with Blind Luck.

Of course! Who comes second in that list? Rose Catherine? You also had Quality Road on the top of your list of Classic horses? Should we read those lists upside down?

[thaskalos]

I don't know how you can say she doesn't deserve it and in the next sentence talk about her greatness. Shouldn't HOY be all about Greatness?Shouldn't "Greatness" imply more than the performance of ONE year?

The HOY award is about the accomplishments of one year...and one great year does not necessarily spell "Greatness" for a horse.

I am not debating about whether or not Zenyatta's career qualifies to be called great...I am just saying that your assertion - that the HOY award is all about "Greatness" - is shortsighted.

[tucker6]

She is simply the best. I don't know any other horse,male or female in the history of the sport that can be over 20 lengths behind against the best Grade 1 horses and lose by only a nose. Immortal.How about Secretariat on this very track, to name but one of many?? And she wasn't 20+ back. She was more like 16 back. Try for a little perspective here. MANY horses have been capable of doing, and have actually done, anything Zenyatta has done. She's a good to great mare, but let's not go overboard.

[tucker6]

P6,
You want to debate everyone tonight?
Ar you a mass debater?That made me laugh out loud 10 hours later. :lol: Kudos to you sir.

[thaskalos]

How about Secretariat on this very track, to name but one of many?? And she wasn't 20+ back. She was more like 16 back. Try for a little perspective here. MANY horses have been capable of doing, and have actually done, anything Zenyatta has done. She's a good to great mare, but let's not go overboard.I was hoping that this race would give us all the evidence we would need to form an accurate opinion about Zenyatta...but the result was a little ambiguous IMO.

I know that she always stays far back early...but this time it seemed very different. IMO, she was clearly out of sorts in the early going...and I would love to see her have a second chance at this field.

I hope this doesn't sound like an excuse...because I promised I wouldn't make any, no matter what...:)