Its ok to bet against Zenyatta, and even root against her

[Valuist]

I can't help but laugh when I read various handicapper's Classic analysis or watch TV analysts give their view. It seems everyone that is picking against Zenyatta felt compelled to give an apology. This is a gambling game. If you bet, you are allowed to root FOR your selections/wagers, and against those that will lose you money.

[andymays]

It's insane isn't it?

Good point. :ThmbUp:

[FenceBored]

I can't help but laugh when I read various handicapper's Classic analysis or watch TV analysts give their view. It seems everyone that is picking against Zenyatta felt compelled to give an apology. This is a gambling game. If you bet, you are allowed to root FOR your selections/wagers, and against those that will lose you money.

Trevor in line behind someone not betting on Zenyatta:
"This ... is ... un ... be ... lievable!"

[Stillriledup]

I love it when people get emotionally attached to horses and jockeys and trainers. If you want to have any chance to do some good in this game, you MUST GO AGAINST POPULAR OPINION.

[garyoz]

Betting opportunity of a decade. I am using her a little in the third hole in some Tri's.

[Valuist]

On ESPN, they had a poll question: "Does Zenyatta have to win the BC Classic today to earn Horse of the Year?

Well lets look at the resume: 4 wins this year in 4 starts. Beats the likes of Rinterval, Switch and St. Trinians by either a neck or 1/2 length. Her biggest win was in the Fantasy over Taptam with Be Fair in 3rd; beaten 5 3/4 lengths. This is the same Be Fair who is 20-1 in the morning line for an undercard stake today.

The real shocker is that 49% of the poll respondents felt she had done enough for Horse of the Year, even if she doesn't win today. If she wins, fine, that will settle it.

[jballscalls]

even though i'm not betting today, if i was, i'd bet against her and be more than happy to get beaten by her.

I really hope she wins, would be fun to watch!

[Stillriledup]

On ESPN, they had a poll question: "Does Zenyatta have to win the BC Classic today to earn Horse of the Year?

Well lets look at the resume: 4 wins this year in 4 starts. Beats the likes of Rinterval, Switch and St. Trinians by either a neck or 1/2 length. Her biggest win was in the Fantasy over Taptam with Be Fair in 3rd; beaten 5 3/4 lengths. This is the same Be Fair who is 20-1 in the morning line for an undercard stake today.

The real shocker is that 49% of the poll respondents felt she had done enough for Horse of the Year, even if she doesn't win today. If she wins, fine, that will settle it.


Great horses win by double digit margins on occasion. ALL of the all time greats beat a field by 10 lengths or more at some point in their careers. Z's more of an excellent horse who's been craftily managed.

Remember, if she doesn't catch Anaabas Creation on Aug 9, 2009 at Del Mar, she's not even talked about in the top 50 of all time. But, because she beat Anaaba by 1/100th of a second, she goes from 50th best all time to 1st? Can you jump 49 places by being 1/100th of a second faster in one of your races? That seems like a pretty big jump to me.

Its all about perception with Zenyatta. The New York Yankees would never lose either if they played college teams. Does that mean the Yankees are the best baseball team of all time because they have had wins over Virginia Tech and Miami of Ohio? No, they have to beat the Phillies, Red Sox and other good teams in order to be the best. Its nice to beat Tech and State, but if you want to be the best, you have to beat Boston and Philly.

Just sayin.

[classhandicapper]

Not only do I think it's OK to bet against her at 3-5, it's practically an obligation at a gambler.

However, I think if your horse is going to lose anyway and you are not screaming for her to get up you are probably a cross between Mr Data and Mr Spock from Star Trek either searching for your humanity or trying to repress it.

If she wins it will be one of the greatest moments in the history of racing.

None of us will ever see another horse go 20 for 20, win 14 Grade 1s, back to back Classics on different surfaces, 3 Breeder's Cup Races, from 6 1/2F to 10F, and get on 60 Minutes. We'll all die of old age several times before that happens again. I'll be pretty shocked if I ever even see a mare win the Classic on dirt before I die.

This is an almost impossible challenge they are taking on. It's one they did not have to even participate in. They could have retired her after she won the Classic last year and her place in history would already be secure.

Personally, when they are coming down the stretch, if she's in contention, I'm going to be rooting for her to get up. I'll be happy to rip up my tickets on my one measly bet just to see that history.

[Stillriledup]

You can bet against her and still root FOR her at the same time. I mean, once you put in your bets, you are either going to win or going to lose, you may as well root for Z to win.....if she does, she'll create many new fans who's money you'll be taking in the next few years anyway at the windows. We need NEW money in the game, i'm sick of betting against just a small core of hardened experts, i want FISH!

[classhandicapper]

Great horses win by double digit margins on occasion. ALL of the all time greats beat a field by 10 lengths or more at some point in their careers. Z's more of an excellent horse who's been craftily managed.


Just sayin.

You seem to not understand the difference between dirt and synthetic/grass racing and probably haven't looked at the PPs of a lot of the all time greats on dirt either. Margin of victory is function of pace in addition to differences in ability

[Stillriledup]

You seem to not understand the difference between dirt and synthetic/grass racing and probably haven't looked at the PPs of a lot of the all time greats on dirt either. Margin of victory is function of pace in addition to differences in ability

She won twice on dirt and didnt win by 20 like Rachel did in some of her races. Rachel won at least 2 races by over 15 lengths. Great horses do great things. Getting up by a nose against bad competition isn't my definition of greatness....regardless of pace, surface or whatnut.

[classhandicapper]

She won twice on dirt and didnt win by 20 like Rachel did in some of her races. Rachel won at least 2 races by over 15 lengths. Great horses do great things. Getting up by a nose against bad competition isn't my definition of greatness....regardless of pace, surface or whatnut.

Those were her two largest margins and she won very easily with plenty in reserve.

The thing about superior deep closers is that they use the horses in front of them as prompters and tend to move at the same time regardless of the pace. Typically they are only running hard for the last 3 furlongs or so and can't put a lot of distance between themselves and the other horses in that short time unless the race totally collapses. So even on dirt they tend to not to win by large margins as frequently.

Superior front runners and pressers often either set or force a fast pace and kill off all the inferior horses running with them or chasing them and then still finish out well. So the winning margin will often be exaggerated. Since many great dirt horses also have speed, we see that profile more often.

[Tom]

Superior front runners and pressers often either set or force a fast pace and kill off all the inferior horses running with them or chasing them and then still finish out well. So the winning margin will often be exaggerated. Since many great dirt horses also have speed, we see that profile more often.

Good point, Class, dirt often makes horse look much better than they really are. This a good thing, I'm told. :rolleyes:

[HuggingTheRail]

Trevor in line behind someone not betting on Zenyatta:
"This ... is ... un ... be ... lievable!"

I have watched last years Classic a few times this week...keep thinking that line would sound way better if it was done in an Elmer Fudd voice....

This....is....un....be...weave...abulllllll

[WJ47]

You can bet against her and still root FOR her at the same time. I mean, once you put in your bets, you are either going to win or going to lose, you may as well root for Z to win.....if she does, she'll create many new fans who's money you'll be taking in the next few years anyway at the windows. We need NEW money in the game, i'm sick of betting against just a small core of hardened experts, i want FISH!

I agree completely. I don't think that Zenyatta will win today and I won't be placing a bet on her (although if I were at the track, I'd buy a souvenier ticket on her!). But I do hope she wins because it would be good for the sport. If she wins against these horses on the dirt, I'll be really impressed.

[cpitt84]

Think about it: the mosses and sheriffs are conservative right (racing against average mares only in cali)? They wouldn't be here if they didnt think she could win.
Their confidence definitely boosts my trust that she'll make it there first!